Captain Kirk Douglas

33:33Be like, that's a guitar and this, I can play these things and I don't need a loud overdriven amp to do so. And these are amazing songs and this is a great vibe and I don't need a particular look to participate with it and also it was around this time that I started getting into Hendrix I remember Guitar World came out with an all Hendrix issue and I remember my first Hendrix record was live at Winterland that just it was just released on CD so it was like you know hearing Hendrix on stage and my dad was allowing me to play CDs on his huge stereo okay so you've upgraded yeah yeah exactly so it was that live at winterland hendrix and i was able to see how black music fit into rock and roll and sort of you know do the backtracking and and seeing like how i could be part of this music that i was into and how you know oh my goodness hendrix was was a forefather in fact yeah and just seeing like my place in it more so like you're not an intruder or losing yourself yeah and then it was around this time shortly thereafter when living color came on the scene and there was like oh shit that was such a moment of of validation and just like a world just got very technicolored really fast wow and um i was super fanished i remember they played an snl and i remember getting vivid on cd and i just remember like just dancing in my basement to this music.

35:10And then I must have gotten my heart broken, and then I discovered The Smiths and The Cure and Fishbone, you know, goth, if you will. And then I started seeing how the guitar could create a different sort of tapestry with this music that The Cure was doing, that The Smiths was doing, and Cocteau Twins, bands like that. You have the guitar-driven stuff, like rock and roll. where it's riffing. Then you have like soul where a guitar is an accompaniment kind of thing. But in that music, it's more like, it's almost like you use like a sound effect almost. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Very sonic tapestries and just textual stuff that you're not like, like in your mind's eye, you're not seeing this swashbuckling guitar hero.

35:57But there's the subliminal thing that guitar does. So that's triggering something within you emotionally, sonically. And it's also the textual aspect of what a keyboard does. So there's that sort of cold wave, that sort of cold British sort of element, you know, with chorus pedals and a lot of delays. And then some of what U2 is doing, there's like some aspects of that. So those teen years, it was just like such a time of discovery as what the guitar could do in music and the way it could be percussive, the way it could be melodic, the way it could be textural, the way it could be noise and attitude.

36:41Just seeing like it does not have to be one thing and you don't have to be one thing. And you through use of touch and amp settings and effects and note selection and rhythmic choices, you can be all of these things. And just so as I was growing as a teen, it was just pulling me into this forest of sound and falling in love and just feeling very romantic and being into music that spoke to that side of life, of being a misanthrope. And also, you know, noticing my blackness and also becoming more aware of not fitting in, which does not have to be something that's recognized, you know, racially, you know, that's universal sort of existential, you know, moment that people go through.

37:32And I felt it in my own way. And I was blessed to be able to be playing music at the time. And I started going out and I'd start going to like Soul Kitchen. back in the day there was this club soul kitchen where they would start playing they would play mandrill they'd play p funk they'd play silvers like it was just fence walk up by mandrill yeah first time i heard that that blew my mind blew my mind and just hearing how funk and how rock was fusing and i'm discovering 70s electric band miles yeah and i'm getting i'm meeting people that or into that and you're jamming and you're playing in front of people it's just like new york the time in the mid 90s late mid to late 90s it was a beautiful time um but no but it does seem like a special time i mean all these eras are sort of seem to be colliding yeah and some of that stuff's gone now you know i mean i can't quite tell because you know like i the other night i went out to see a band and at my age now like i have kids you know like i and you know with age comes wisdom and I'm not able to be out mad late as I was every night in my 20s.

38:43So it's just like, and when I went out, it's just like, I was in the Lower East Side and it was like, there's mad people out and just like, there were bands playing and it's just like, you just got to know where to go. I wasn't there for the 60s. Those that were there for that time, they're probably like, y 'all missed out. So maybe so much of it has to do with the hormones coursing through your body at a particular age and being at that place at that time. And if you're hearing music you love, if you're getting laid, it's a beautiful time in New York City. You know, if you can afford to eat, if you can afford to be here, you're chilling.

39:18You know, it may be that. It's that simple. It can be that simple. So anyhow, I was working as a preschool teacher during the day. How did you get that gig? And where were you teaching? You say that like, who are these kids? Can we find them? Funny you should ask. You can find them. But right before I left Long Island, I used to work with the developmentally disabled. I used to work with autistic children. And I was a direct care counselor. How did you get involved in that? That's beautiful. Well, I remember working at the mall while I was going to Suffolk Community College. And I remember somebody came in with a group of people from, they were developmentally disabled.

40:04There was autism. autism. I saw kids with Down syndrome and they came into my job, I remember, selling soap to people and questioning about what I'm doing for a living. What do I really want to do with my life? And I remember them coming in and I remember feeling a little uncomfortable when they came in. And I remember asking the person that was there with them, who was sort of like leading them around and everything, like where they were from. And so I'm from this place, Mary Haven, and we're we're on what's called community exposure and then, you know, trying to make sure that nobody touches anything and then they could only stay for so long and then they left.

40:42But I remember that feeling stuck with me. Like why did I feel uncomfortable about that? And then I'm thinking, and then I'm like, well, what am I doing? Like I'm, you know, I'm selling soap, you know, in retail. Like, and, um, I just, I don't know. I just had this sense that like, I want to make money, but I want to like, is there a way I can make money and help people? And I just switched jobs. I wanted to do something that felt more serving humanity. So I did that for a couple years. And it was great. And playing guitar for that population was so gratifying. So when I moved to Manhattan, I was trying to get a job doing something similar.

41:24And I needed a degree to do that. And so it was like, I need to do some more school. and I was also at the time discovering playing music at night. So I was trying to figure it out, like, am I going to go back to school? I'm going to do that. And then I had a friend that worked as an assistant teacher at a preschool and their preschool was looking for assistant teachers. And so I worked there for a year or two and then I was taught at Greenwich House Preschool for maybe six years I taught at Greenwich House Preschool. And many of, not many, but I can say there's like three or four students, my former students I've seen within the past five years, like randomly.

42:09Like I was trying to get my Apple computer fixed. And he's like, are you Kirk? I was like, yeah. He's like, you changed my diaper. You know? I'm like, what? Hopefully it's like 20 years ago. But yeah, and he's like, you know, yeah. And then I had him come down to The Tonight Show. He brought his mom. you had like a little reunion he's having a kid so yeah i definitely have been able to see the circle of life happen before my eyes it's incredible yeah yeah it's it's crazy gigging at night i mean so i would gig at night playing i there's a band called the veld that i that they were known as the veld back then known as apollo heights at some point but now they're back to being the belt the veld they're still playing out that was one of the bands i played with i played with uh greg tate's burnt sugar played with um amani uzuri played with tamar collie god alice smith i remember playing with her you know sometimes interpretive dance you'd be playing for that too and many of the things would be like you know coming up with things you know all improvisation based so that was part of like my my musical like diet and education there's a band called the bell band we used to play at this place uh the bell cafe they called us the bell band we were just every sunday just just set up instruments and just play whatever came to our minds and that was very influenced by what miles was doing like 70s period miles like the john mclaughlin era yeah yeah like um mahavishnu type of stuff just you know mandrill type of stuff, just like meters and I'd bring everything that we've talked about for the past hour to the table sonically in terms of what would fit and through effects you learn how to take up textural space and create things that are ethereal and then sample yourself and then come in with something that's just more riff oriented or something that's just more supportive to what the keyboards are doing and it was all like see your pants and then occasionally get to like rip a solo too like all that stuff was it was like no holds barred type of creation it was it was such a freeing playground and that i think was a big part of my transition to getting to play with the roots because uh around that time from playing with one of these poets um i'mani azuri i think rich nichols who i had spoken about spoken about before, came to one of those gigs and gave me his card.

44:43Within, I think, the next year, I got a call because the guitar player for The Roots at the time, Ben Kenney, left The Roots to join Incubus. They had just put out Phrenology and they were about to go embark on a tour of Japan. And Vernon was playing with them while they were doing a brief European tour. But Vernon couldn't stay because he had to go and continue with Living Color. but they needed somebody more permanent. That's a very guitar-driven record, phrenology. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I auditioned with some other people and I got the gig and I had to give my two weeks notice to the preschool.

45:27Wow. You were still with the preschool? I was still with the preschool up until I joined the Roots, yeah. After this last break, we'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Captain Kirk Douglas. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at an Ooclas speed test, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.

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48:00Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. As many of you know, I spend a lot of time studying what really makes people happy. What works, what doesn't, and why. And here's the truth. It's not about having the perfect home or perfectly plated food. It's about connection. One of my favorite ideas is something I call scruffy hospitality, inviting people over even if things aren't spotless or fancy. Because science shows that just gathering, laughing, chatting, maybe even cooking together gives our well-being a real boost. That's why I love what Bosch is doing.

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49:17Like, is that the understanding? Kind of. Put it this way. I did the first show with The Roots, and I had my ticket stubs from the knitting factory. I had them to sign it because I didn't know if it was just going to be on that tour or what. And then after the Japanese tour, then I got itinerary with more dates on it. And I was like, oh, okay, I guess I might be sticking around. But I, you know. Had you toured by that point? Like, internationally? One of the many gigs that I played before playing with The Roots was with a guy named T.M. Stevens, who is a bass player who played with John McLaughlin.

49:56He was a bass player that played with Steve Vai during some time. He played with Miles for a brief period. He played with The Pretenders. Remember, there's that Pretenders album, Get Close. There's a black dude that's playing on bass for that. I didn't know. T.M. Stevens. he was in that band with Bernie Worrell, interestingly enough. The Pretenders. I didn't know the Pretenders had a record with Bernie Worrell. What? I got to go check that out. That's crazy. So I played with him. And with TM Stevens, that was sort of like a black rock, live in color type of situation. Very funk influenced, but also pretty metallic.

50:34I played internationally with TM. We went to Germany once and we went to Japan once. Yeah. But going to Japan with The Roots was definitely different. A little different, right. On a grander scale. And the roots must have been, I mean, they must have been pretty big in Japan at that time, right? Yeah, I mean, well, this is just when The Seed came out and they had on their hands, like, you know, a hit. So I got to see them witness that alongside with them, on stage with them. You know, it's like, oh, we have a hit now. You know, it's like, before I joined the band, they opened for the Beastie Boys.

51:05That was like a big tour that they had done. And shortly after I joined, they did some opening dates with Dave Matthews' band. Got it. And that was when I saw a really big audience for the first time. And it was the first time I ever saw top shelf catering. Any opportunity to do anything with the Dave Matthews band, I mean, even I'll roadie it, just if I have access to that catering. And then I remember seeing Dave Matthews in the parking lot. I was like, hey, would you want to come up and play all along the Watchtower with us tonight? And I'm like, with you? And he's like, yeah, just come up at the end.

51:36He invited me to do that. And it was insane. It was just like playing with them was just like being in the eye of the storm. And just like you're looking at the crowd and just like it was a great crowd, you know, that was there for us when we were opening. But it definitely looked different like when you're on stage with Dave Matthews band and looking at his fans. Their crowd, yeah. Like completely on whatever you're doing. And it was such an experience, man. At that point, then it started to feel like, wow, I think I'm part of the roots now, you know. it's weird when i think about it because it's kind of like in the grand scheme of things like it's like this short period of time that felt kind of long i joined the band in 03 and then we started doing working with jimmy fallon for late night with jimmy fallon that started in 09 i know i mean the roots pre-fallon were like on the road all the time like a lot like 250 dates a year how was it transitioning from you're gigging here at night you're doing preschool during the day to you're on the road 250 days a year that was a big adjustment because i joined the band just after i got married wow you know i i got married with the thought that well you know what i've been playing music a while now of course i've just turned 30 i feel like it's safe to say that i'm not going to start traveling the world or anything and i feel like i've had just you know all the experiences i've need to have in my life and i feel like now is a good time to like you know settle down and get married this is perfect and then i joined the roots and now now you're about to start touring the world you know so i'm but looking back i'm so happy that it played out that way because i feel like you know i had a sort of a grounding that would make me being out on the road like that at that age just kind of messy you know and i feel like just the groundedness from being together with someone and it just it just allowed me to like just focus more on the situation at hand you know playing the music and doing the work and you know it was fun it was exciting and but it was like a lot of time away yeah but it also was a situation where I felt like every time we'd get back together there'd be like a rejuvenation of our romance you know and then once we started having when we started having children that was definitely challenging you know our son was born in 05 and so like for the first four years of his life you know i was on the road heavy and you know that was definitely challenging definitely challenging for my wife and definitely challenging for me to be away while all that was happening yeah but when it came into play that we were going to start working with Jimmy for late night, that was such a game changer in terms of just coming home every night for dinner, sleeping in the same bed every night.

54:33And like, you know, you really notice it when, you know, you got this gig and different bands come through all the time to play on The Tonight Show. And the first questions that they would ask us was questions about what's it like to just be in one place and not have to travel so much and um and then we really got the sense of oh wow we're really lucky to be in this situation right now yeah but then shortly you know within a couple years what wound up happening is any moment that we weren't doing the show we'd be out on the road yeah so then you'd find yourself with like kind of two jobs it's it's really been a blessing and just and you know so many bands also that i've discovered from this job you know bands i've never heard of that you know because As you get older and as you are a parent, if you're not actively trying to stay in the loop, life slowly ushers you out of the loop.

55:31Who are some of the bands you've discovered through? Oh, I mean, bands like Tame Impala. It's like doing this show, it's like the first time there's going to be somebody on the show whose name's Ed Sheeran. Okay. You don't know who this is. and you're seeing them on stage for the first time. And it's in this room, but it's also happening on the world stage. Also, Unknown Mortal Orchestra. I love that band. And that's the first time I ever saw them. First time Gary Clark Jr. sat in with us. You know what I mean? I never heard of him. How was it playing with him? It was insane. It was insane. Just watching it close up and just...

56:11And again, seeing people that are legends in their first TV involvement, you know? So seeing him, you know, he was like kind of nervous, but ripping, you know? And the fun part is just seeing it all up close, you know, seeing it like not on YouTube, not on your phone, but right in front of you. Like it's been amazing. How was the Prince stuff, man? That was a funny story about Prince smashing your guitar. Yeah, what a day that was. I remember I saw, I think I saw Unknown's Mortal Orchestra the night before he came because I remember like being backstage meeting Ruben Wilson and saying I wouldn't mind hearing Prince do a cover of So Good at Being in Trouble.

56:54I remember saying that because I actually, Prince is going to come to the show tomorrow. Little did I know. So I'm home. I get a call that says Prince came to play at Fallon. He's playing with his group Third Eye Girl. I think that's what they're called. Yeah. His old girl band. Prince made it to the rehearsal but his guitar did not and he needed a guitar to borrow and so you know they asked if it was cool if he borrowed one of mine so i have my guitars here and probably in this very spot is this is a kind of a near replica of the guitar but it had a purple strap on it when he came in and i guess he came in saw that guitar saw the purple strap and be like i want to play that one he played it for rehearsal and i got pictures sent to my phone of prince playing my guitar which i was over the moon about ridiculous so uh he does the rehearsal his guitar shows up uh he does the rehearsal rest of rehearsal with his guitar it comes show time and right before we start the whole show the music booker at the time comes to me and says prince wants to buy your guitar and use it for the show and i'm like oh wow prince can use my guitar for the show but he can't buy it did you feel weird saying no a little bit i mean well i mean i said he could play the guitar but feel weird saying no no because it's my guitar i want that guitar it's not for sale so it would be you know no i didn't feel weird about it no no not not so anyhow so he um so my guitar leaves my post where I'm standing on stage.

58:31And then it comes back to me. And so I'm like, oh, I guess he didn't want to use it. No harm, no foul. He does two songs. He does the first song with his guitar. He had this Vox electric guitar. He does the first song. And then right after this song, he comes up to me. He's like, yo, let me see that on the guitar. And I'm like, sure. So I give him the guitar. He does Bambi, Prince song Bambi, shreds, destroys. Yeah, yeah. And at the end, I'm thinking he's about to play behind his head, but he lifts it up, but he doesn't put it behind his head. He lifts it up, and he tosses it. It came crashing to the ground, and it was like feedbacking, and he just does his strut offstage, you know?

59:15And Jimmy's like, you know, introducing him off. That was Prince. And then we play the outro to the show, and there's footage of our bass player, Mark Kelly. He's just laughing hysterically. hysterically and you see i'm laughing too but it's not a normal laugh it's just like it's a laugh that like i i know i'm on camera like this sort of like maniacal look on my face like what the fuck just happened so then after the show keith comes up to us and uh he comes up to me he's like prince wants to talk to you and i'm like really okay like well i want to talk to prince you know And then I go and he's back listening to the mix of the music.

59:56And I can't hear what he's saying because the music is so loud. But I could make out the words like, I'm sorry. I'll take care of it. Definitely said I'll take care of it. But he was talking about what happened with his other guitars. Like it was going out of tune or just some excuse. And then the mixing is over. We're walking out of the room. I'm holding the guitar in the two pieces. And it broke on the headstock is where it really broke. And I'm like, all right, well, you broke it. You think you could at least sign it, you know? And he was like, oh, I haven't signed anything since the 70s. He wouldn't sign it?

1:00:28He wouldn't sign it. Yeah. And I was just in shock. I was like, that's cool. But to his credit, his people called me and they wired a great sum of money to my account. If I had a choice between the signature and the money they wired into my account, I would definitely have taken the money for sure. My car didn't need servicing. But what's ironic with the whole thing is that guitar that he chose to play is normally not in the building. It's normally like at home. I always keep that at home. It was only in the building because we had rehearsal that night. And I wanted to use the guitar for the show that the rehearsal was for.

1:01:13And the show that the rehearsal was for was at Carnegie Hall. And it was a Prince tribute. Yes. Well, you knew how to pick the guitar for the... Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was cool about it is the guy that sold me the guitar, Great Luthier, that builds his own guitars, Matt from 30th Street Guitars, Matt Brewster, and he fixed the guitar in time for me to use it that night. Wow. And Chris Rock was also there, and he did a Prince Spoken Words song. I forgot which one he did. but I told Chris Rock the story he was like well now you have your own Prince asshole story you know and now it's at the Cleveland Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and I'm trying to get that guitar back now because I think it's been there long enough it's gathered enough mojo I think and I'm ready to have it back now you want to play it again I want to play it again instruments are made to be played oh my gosh was that the only time you met Prince?

1:02:14no I met him once at a Grammy he had a Grammy party and that was right after he did his famous Super Bowl performance. Oh, wow. So I met him shortly after that, a few days after that I think it was. Talk about Mojo. Yeah, right? And I met him right before one of his shows at the Garden along with Questlove. He like reintroduced me. Both times Questlove introduced me. I was like right there when he was hanging with him. That's so cool. So yeah, I had three and I was really looking forward to like seeing him again after that happened, you know, never got to have that. That's so sad. We lost him, man.

1:02:51It's tragic. Man. There's a song on the New Unknown, which is the 100 - 100 Watt Heart. 100 Watt Heart record, Breath of Fire. I mean, there's a number of great songs, but Breath of Fire. Jesus Christ, man. Thank you, man. That's another moment where I'm like, how did you, I mean, you're just that good. I mean, how do you make that sound live and improvised on the - Well, it's like, that's a song that it like has, like a lot of the melodies and themes are like kind of curated on that song. Like, it's, you know, it's a guitar solo, but it's like a, it's a, it's kind of like a piece, you know, and like, throughout time, you know, like, there's like the basic melody of the song.

1:03:27And then when it goes off on this tangent, like, like many days of thinking of that rhythm, and like, things have come to me and like, and like, sometimes I'll sing some of these ideas into a recorder. and like try to remember to play that next time, you know. Right. And then there's some of it that's like totally off the cuff, you know. Would you mind playing a couple of just the motifs from that? No, if you just wait a second. Okay, yeah.

1:04:00So, yeah, the main groove of it is like.

1:04:09It just started out of that basic progression, that basic riff, and you have all the percussion that happens. And it's like a guitar solo, but it's kind of like one in something like the guitar is singing.

1:04:43Yeah, so it's just like, it's something like you can almost attach your own lyric to whatever the guitar is doing on that thing. And then as the song goes on, you start getting into things that, you know, probably can't be sung guitar-wise. The guitar's, I guess, expressing like the lyrics that can only be like felt and not sung, maybe. Every other song had vocals on it. I thought it'd be cool to give people a break from my vocal. I wanted to give myself a break from my own vocal. Not that I don't like the sound of my own voice, but I thought it'd be cool to have an instrumental track, something that's, you know, there's no words to take you in any sort of direction to just give you, the listener, their own interpretation of what's going down.

1:05:28There's another cool song on there, Land of Look Beyond. Do you mind playing through a little of that? Yeah.

1:05:42Oh, welcome home

1:05:51It's been far too long since we walked in the woods

1:06:07I was thinking kind of like some kind of Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon-ish, you know, but... That song was recorded, I recorded the whole album at my mom's house. And it was recorded in the basement, and with the drummer Rick Sheridan, a lot of it was recorded over COVID. and for that particular song about a week before I played the drummer Rick that song on my guitar and I don't know how he remembered it but he was like yo we should play that song again you know I was as I told you I was dabbling with home recording so I just had three mics on his drums I had a mic on his kick drum mic on the snare an overhead mic and what I did was I played my guitar directly into my interface.

1:06:56So there's no bleed onto the drum tracks. And we played that song for the first time since he heard it. So we really never played the song before. So when he sat down to play it, it felt so natural to him. And could have been, you know, cannabis induced, but he was definitely in the zone. I was in the zone. We were both in the zone. and we played that whole song, that whole take down from top to bottom for the first time ever. So what you hear on the recording is the first time we ever played it. I edited it down because it's probably twice as long as what's on there. And then it was just built on top of from there.

1:07:35So that's what you're hearing on Land of Look Beyond. Beautiful song. I appreciate that you listen to it. The album's been out since the end of 2022, but I just got the vinyl done now. So now this is the challenge of playing with the roots and trying to have a side project. It's like, you know, you're just juggling all the blessings. You know what I mean? That's a great way. And, you know, some things take time. And, you know, what's great about music and what's great about recording is it's manifestation in actions. Like you imagine something, there's a seed of idea that comes into your mind and you record it and you grow it and you know there's a time when land of look beyond was just like a little chord progression i was playing for myself and then it became this thing you know and uh that's one of the most gratifying things about recording like hearing an idea that started in your mind and then for me to get that idea out and have it come out of speakers, especially the speakers that I grew up listening to music.

1:08:43That's what a musician does. That's all they want, pull you, the listener, into our world and saying, this is what I'm about. Here's a little musical museum of the things that I dig and maybe some of it resonates. It's all in that record. It's the musical equivalent of what we just talked through. You hear all the influences and more and just the years of work that you put into your craft. It's beautiful, man. Thank you. I really appreciate you reaching out to have this conversation. I appreciate all the years of you juggling your blessings for our benefit, man. It's like, yeah, you've given us more enjoyment than we could repay, so thank you.

1:09:23Well, I try to give out what I've been getting. Thanks again to Captain Kirk Douglas for talking through his origin story and for playing songs from his project 100 Watt Heart for us. You can hear it along with our favorite songs from his work with the roots on a playlist at brokenrecordpodcast.com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash brokenrecordpodcast where you can find all of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolanay.

1:10:00Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.

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