Cymande

27:53Tell me about how the first album came together. The self-titled album. You see, what you have to remember is that we rehearsed every day. I mean, every day. And much of the day. And from Mita's days all the way through, when we finished Mita, we did some work with Ginger Johnson. But we were constantly creating what eventually became Semandi Music. We were absolute musicians. That was our... Life. We were on death row.

28:35Yeah, that's kind of all we did. All we did. It was like one long stream of creativity that turned into Samandhi music in 1970, late 1971, 72. In that first album, it's the message, the rickshaw, incredible, incredible stuff on the record. Yeah, we were fortunate with having John Shorter as our producer. in the sense that he never sought to interfere with the music. He was fascinated with the music. It was quite unusual, I mean, looking back on it now, because we'd only been together for about a year before we went into the studio. Wow. And to have that kind of, how can I say, rapid access to high-quality recordings at that time was, you know, it was unusual.

29:33Normally you'd have to be on the road three, four, five years building a profile before you get that kind of opportunity. We'd started to develop a following. You know, there was a following that used to come and listen to us whenever we were playing, but we were certainly not what you might call a big, you know, a big name band. But John Shoder liked the music and he wanted to get us into the studio as early as possible. And that's what he did. And he took us into the studio and just left us really to, you know, to create. There was no real pressure on us to, okay, guys, start recording and that kind of thing.

30:17But we had a lot of freedom in terms of, you know, building our interactions and getting the right atmosphere going in, et cetera. at least that was my recollection well I will put one word you know you ask us what it was like it was very exciting first time we'd done it to do any real recording of our own John was an in-house producer for Pi Records and he had had all sorts of you know hits with various people so the fact that he saw us and liked us and loved the music and wanted to do something with us was fortunate to us so it was a good bit of fortune that we were introduced to him and he to us and rapidly moved from there to test Janus Records in America and touring America with Al Green.

31:10What was that tour like? Really exciting. I mean, we'd been on the road, as I said. We'd been existing for about a year and to be moving from small venues and I can't even call, some of them were just very small clubs in the UK. Yeah. You know, and then to be going in the States and be playing in football stadiums, you know, with 20 ,000 to 30 ,000 people. Yeah. To be playing a week at the Apollo. I mean, the Apollo was, even in the UK, that was like the Holy Grail, you know, for soul music and that kind of stuff. and to have the opportunity of going and playing that to do a week there was something, you know.

32:00It was just it was a mind-blowing experience, really. Yeah. How was Al as the performer on that? Well, Al was into his element at the time, you know. Hey, lovely. The girls used to be throwing the things at him, you know. Were you guys shocked seeing that stuff? Like how the girls were responding to Al? Were you guys shocked? No, we finished with church long before that, man. We were great. Oh, man. Got you. Got you. Man, that's wild. Yeah, but Al was big, man. Al was big. The girls would do anything to get a moment with Al. I mean, anything. They were offering anything to, if you could get the breakfast to Al.

32:54It was really that big. It was just a ginormous. It's probably difficult to imagine now, you know, just how big he was at the time. Yeah, yeah. When you first went into the studio for that first album, was it, you know, like Dove is almost 11 minutes long. Were all your songs at that point that you would play in your sets, were they all pretty long like that? And then when you got to the studio, you thought, let's bring them down or I was just... We just did everything in the same way we had been doing it before. And because it's so much improvisational stuff, you know, you go with the vibe in a sense.

33:38I don't think we knew it was that long when we were cutting it. But we never operated with the kind of commercial restrictions on... songs, you know, your three and a half minutes. We never worked a three and a half minute kind of limit for the songs. However the songs developed, that's how we went with them. So like with The Message, for instance, you guys didn't have a longer version and you get in the studio, you thought, let's get it closer to four. That's just kind of what it was. That was the song. That's how we did it. John just captured what we were doing on the tape. Those were the songs.

34:20there were some that we you know there was some improvisation going on so they might be a little longer here a little shorter there but those were the songs I think it's because of the jazz element in the music you know we always wanted to make space for the sax players you know we never wanted our sax players to be just accent accent players and that's why you'll find a lot of them exactly Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. As much as part of the, I feel like the sound of Sinande was like the way you guys played together, Steven Patrick as a bass player and guitar player, there were wonderful songs that would just be drum, you know, and it sounded almost more Jamaican in that sense, you know, like Naibingi kind of where it wasn't even reggae, but just with the kind of spiritual with the drum.

35:13was that something you guys were also listening to? Or was that more of the Jamaican members of the group? Or how did that enter the sound? That's more from Pablo and Mike at the time. At that time, it was really quite important because that gave us a slightly different tilt to our music that Rastafari underpinning. and I think maybe it was the first album or first and second album we have about four Rasta songs on there and it was very important for music because Pablo as a percussion player, as a bonga player had his really original style how we interacted musically and they brought Pablo and Mike both much of the Rastafarian element that Simandi was Twitter.

36:09That was all part of Semande's makeup. The percussive thing, the styling of the guitar and bass. It was part of what we did. It wasn't contrived. It was organic that way. So beautiful. Even in hindsight, you listen to these records. I want to talk about the new record because I feel like you guys have figured out how to keep that, but you guys really... I don't know how you guys did it, but even just the way the congas, just the sound of those so crisp and just like you guys really captured something just magical, you know? So, yeah, John just allowed us to be ourselves in the studio. After this last break, we back the rest of my conversation with C-Monday.

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38:54Claude doesn't just compile facts. It helps you see patterns across decades of music history, ask the kinds of follow-up questions that reveal deeper truths, and works through the nuanced relationships between artists, movements, and moments. Whether you're a music journalist, industry professional, or someone who just lives for understanding the stories behind the sounds, Claude matches your level of curiosity about what really drives great art. Try Claude for free at Claude.ai slash brokenrecord and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive.

39:36The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them. Machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. were you guys shocked over over the years after a while you guys kind of just retreated into civilian life but you know through the 90s and 2000s you guys's music became revered you know in a sense and it would just pop up in movies or in other people's music how did that feel when that started to happen well we never we never cease being musicians you know it's just for a while because nothing was happening for the music, we decided to go down another avenue and something to some extent that probably, you know, we always felt we'd do at some point.

40:48But we never ceased being musicians. But certainly with the interest, the new interest in the music, I think started in the 80s or might have been the 90s. Certainly the first sampling and I heard of the song, what was brought to my attention by my older children at the time was the De La Soul sample. And then after that, I think, was the Fugees. And then, you know, I became aware that something was happening with the music. I think I told Patrick also that something was happening with the music. And, you know, we saw the development. And fortunately for us, just prior to that, when all the activity with the music that was being generated by the younger generation, we'd also got all our copyright back for our songs.

41:43So that coincided nicely with what was happening with the music. Wow, that's great. Was that like a pretty tough process to get the copyright back? Yes, that was. I think we had to just have sufficient mouths to know what to do and sufficient interest to realize that something had gone terribly wrong with the music that we had written and seemed to be owned and divided up between all kinds of people except us. So once we got to that point, it was kind of time to go and just take it back because it was ours. Yeah. Yeah. Got to clean that up a little bit. We didn't have to fortunately end up in any big hearings before the courts or things like that.

42:37I think people recognized pretty quickly after we had instructed attorneys to, you know, to represent us and communicate to them, you know, how we felt about what was happening. I think people recognized pretty quickly that they didn't really have a left to stand on and it was best to get the thing resourced. Let's talk about Renaissance, guys. I mean, I was saying a bit earlier, like the new album, I was shocked because in some way it sounded a lot like the classic lineup. Even the drums sounded so similar to Sam Kelly and the way that you guys still create that space, which doesn't exist in a lot of modern music.

43:24It's still present in your guys' music. When did you guys start collecting these songs and when did you guys decide to go record a new project? I think it's kind of an ongoing process. We never stopped writing. We never killed off the Simandi project. We were always working in some form or fashion. The hardest thing was deciding what Semantic 2024 was going to be. But much of what we did is, if you like, the end product of a lot of work coming towards that time and that space. We didn't write to go into the studio to record. We'd been writing and we could select material from the stuff that we had written.

44:13And we selected a bunch, maybe, there was a bunch of shortlists of maybe 15, 20 songs. Wow. And I must say that the A &R man at G was really very helpful in, you know, in our latter process of deciding which tracks to go on the album. Because he was open enough to say, I really like this. I think it's good. That sort of thing. you know some A &R men are just not they shouldn't be paid any money

44:49but this dude but it was I mean Patrick Patrick passed over pretty quickly but it was a it was a it was a it was not as as easy as Patrick probably makes it sound you know because there were lots of things we had to be thinking about you know the band at that at that time time, people were now exposed to the three albums. They knew what the sound of the band was in all those days. What would they expect now? Are they going to expect us to try and recreate something that we did in the 70s? Or are we going to do something now that maybe so far removed from what they were expecting that it disappoints them?

45:37So it was quite a difficult process for us, actually. Even Patrick and I had our differences with some of the material in terms of what we think would be correct for the album and so on, you know. So it wasn't an easy process. We wanted a connectedness with the 70s, but we didn't want it to appear as though we're trying to recreate the 70s because we're in different places now. 40 years have passed. We're different people. We are not kids anymore. We are big, grown men. So all of those considerations played into the selection process. We've always gone in the same direction, really. That's my own dream.

46:27He has his writing style. I have kind of my writing style. We don't write as much together sitting down as we did in the past, but our direction, especially the cement, is much the same. To that extent, it wasn't that hard a task to achieve a body of songs that we were all happy with. How have your guys' tastes, I mean, your listening habits changed from the 70s to now? I guess when you go to listen to music now, what are you listening to and has it changed since the 70s? I'm still very much into jazz. jazz is still my favorite medium for listening to music. I don't listen to music that much anymore, to be honest.

47:11I don't get the opportunity, really. The most might be, if I'm traveling in the air, then I might take out my phone and put a couple of tracks on. But most of the albums on my phone would be jazz, and mostly it would be the traditional jazz stuff, you know, not the modern, too much of the modern stuff. There's a lot of, you know, musicians now, even bass players now, you know, they're into this, displaying their skills. It's almost like bass players are now guitar players, you know, when I hear some of them. And it's nice stuff, it's great stuff, very technical and whatever, but it doesn't have that.

48:01I mean like Ron Cart and some of those guys they play one note put it in the right place and it just hits you hits you more than than 20 notes that some of these guys would now be playing so these guys now they display their skills they display their techniques and their abilities and so on but I find that that knowing where to just land the note or put a sound or put a particular groove there I find that lacking much with some of what I'm hearing. I don't listen enough. I don't listen enough. I'm going to listen to more. But when I do listen, I'm a big fan of good songwriting. And I like to hear stories.

48:45So I kind of more listen to that. So when you say you want to listen to more, what's something you might miss listening to that if you had time, you'd throw it on? When I go home, the albums I listen to generally are the two Herbie Hancock albums the one that he has the Joni Mitchell songs oh the Joni Mitchell songs yeah The River yeah yeah River River River River yeah it's River and the one with Imagine on it so I listened to that I listened to there's this compilation there's not really a compilation but these Bob Marley songs played by other artists and I would sit and listen to that a great deal with India Irie I think is on it Maxi Priest.

49:31I really don't listen enough, but I listen to those things when I'm home and get the listening opportunity. How did you guys select the new personnel in the band? When you had to put some new people around you, how did you guys figure out who the right people would be? For Simande? Most of these guys we have known for ages and they have known each other for ages. You know, and it's actually, when I think about it, it's quite strange. Ray, who is our singer now, this is a funny little story, he was a kid coming to watch us rehearse in Brixton when he first helped us. Really? Had his own career as a solo singer.

50:22And he's also a good songwriter. I did some work with him in the mid-80s, going towards the 90s. He worked with Jazzy B. He worked with many other people. Then the piano player, I've known since the mid-80s. First time I encountered him, Adrian Reed. He used to be in a band with a guy that used to play drums with me in other places. The rest of people, either Adrian brought them, or we knew of them. For example, the drummer, Richard Bailey, he's been around almost as long as us. He's a bit younger than us, but he's been around almost as long. Because we had some really nice bands in England in the early days.

51:09He used to play with some of them. We are very pleased to say that we think we have the cream of the crop. Well, that goes to show that you guys really are the key to the sound. I mean, then it's like no matter what era of the group I'm listening to, it's like the way you guys sound together. And it sounds like you guys aren't even writing so much together anymore from what Patrick was saying. But you guys still have an interplay between one another that just sounds like the band, you know? Well, we formed the band. The band is our creation. The music that the band plays to a great extent is decided upon between us.

51:53And you know the thing about the 2015 album, Steve might have a different view, but for me the important thing for the 2015 album was bringing the original six players back together to do that album. Very important that we could do that. And I mean, every man was ready to do it, and we did it. And in fact, John also came back on board, John Schroeder, and the original engineer also came back on board, Alan Florence. So that's the original Simande project. It's not exactly the same as it was in the first three albums. But that to me is a very important thing. And Steve and I don't have to write together in the way, sit down in a room any longer.

52:41We know what it, both of us know what it is that we want Simande music to be. And we each have a hand in what is crafted. At the end of the day, that's just how it's always been. And I suppose how it always will be. We might not have that long, but that's it. But a lot of the songs, you know, although the developmental process is when the band comes together. So you'll have the ideas, the genesis of the ideas and the whatever. but the real how can I say the completion of the songs are when the band comes together we start because lots of changes take place in that process I mean a lot of the songs on the album when we presented them as demos you know they're in a form that is different to how they were presented as demos yeah a number of a number of the songs because when you start when the band is together and everybody is putting in there a little bit You have the drummer with his input, the keyboard players, and so on, and that all comes together.

53:52It impacts the sound, and it sometimes also dictates the direction of the song. So although myself and Patrick will be there, I'll have my style of playing, obviously, which will remain an influence on the sound. Patrick will have his style of playing also. That remains an important influence on the sound. But the other instrumentation also has an impact in terms of the direction and the flow of the music. Tell me about bringing in some of the... You mentioned Jazzy B earlier. I think you were saying that your singer, Ray, played with Jazzy B. He's on the record. Celeste on the record. Incredible, incredible singer.

54:40I agree with you. Were you guys familiar with her before? Only she did a TV advert that plays a lot here. But I hadn't seen or heard much of her, but I did see her being interviewed one time on Jules Holland's show, a couple of years. Jules Holland, I've got to explain Jules. Are you familiar with Jules Holland? Yeah. I mean, somehow that his stuff ends up, I know it's a BBC thing, but somehow it ends up out here all the time. Yeah, yeah. I've seen plenty of Jules. I just assumed it was, you know, everybody kind of knew about it, but he did a kind of series where he interviewed artists and she was one that he interviewed, sat down and discussed the work and stuff.

55:24I'd seen her do that and And our management and her management had gotten together some way, form of passion, and suggested that we link up. And so we did while we were in New York. And we started the same song, started working on that. And when we came back to the UK, we completed it. And then she recorded it with us. And you were quite right. She's a wonderful singer. She's an artist. You know, she's an artist. Yeah, wonderful voice. Wonderful voice. But yeah, Ray worked with Jazzy quite a bit. And I love that linkage when we did how we roll and the issue of Jazzy joining us came up. You know, there was a kind of a direct link there.

56:18And they worked together for quite a while. Yeah, I think those are really great too. I mean, I like that it wasn't, It was nice to have a couple of those touches, but I liked that it wasn't full of features. It was just these really jazzy B, which made sense, and Celeste was just a really wonderful addition. And the song, I love that you guys did a Coltrane. Coltrane is such a great song. And now I was going to ask, I didn't really know that you guys were such jazz fans, but it makes sense to me now that you guys did that in tribute to John, man. that's a tribute to great musicianship leadership in our community you know it's a tribute it's it speaks to coltrain but you know we have so many people that are honored metaphorically through through that i remember the days as a young fella here steve will remember this too when we'd sit down and watch TV and Muhammad Ali would come to England and be interviewed.

57:22I mean, you would leave your job and go and sit down to watch the telly for that. What an inspiration. And it's in that kind of vein that, you know, I would approach Coltrane. Something that we said, Jesus, this is all mine. This is all my community. And this is just fabulous to have that. Amazing. well guys I'm so excited I'm excited that you guys are coming back to LA I was telling Steve before he got on Patrick that I saw you guys in LA back in 2016 I lied to my wife to get out of the house to go see you guys sorry y 'all so I'm excited excited to come back I won't lie this time though I'm going out in front of confidence and uh alright yeah man thanks thanks for the interest really appreciate it thank you guys thank you for the music come on y 'all thank you for the music Thanks so much to original C-Monday members Steve and Patrick for talking about their legacy and their new album with me To hear some of our favorite C-Monday tracks you can find a playlist in the episode description or on our website at brokenrecordpodcast.com And be sure to follow us on Instagram at TheBrokenRecordPod You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan.

58:45Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond. The more you learn about your favorite artists, the more you want to know. Claude helps you keep digging, finding new threads and rabbit holes to explore.

59:25Whether it's discovering deeper meaning behind a detail in an interview or figuring out the influence behind an artist's particular era, Claude thinks with you to find the next clue. If you can't get enough of the stories behind your favorite music and artists, Claude will help you discover new layers you didn't know existed. Try Claude for free at Claude.ai slash broken record. This is an ad by BetterHelp. We've all had that epic rideshare experience. Halfway through your best friends, and they know your aspirations to go find yourself in Portugal. It's human. We're all looking for someone to listen.

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