Daniel Lanois: Live From On Air Fest

24:52We made a record with Willie, a nice record called Teatro. We made it in four days. Yeah, man, fast. Four days. That's a big-sounding record. It's a great-sounding record, but a lot of preparation went into it for it to be fast. We'll be back with more after the break. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at an Ooclas speed test, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.

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26:19where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ukla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 1H 2025. The greatest music stories aren't always in the songs themselves. They're in the late night studio sessions, the chance encounters, and the cultural moments that shaped entire movements. For music lovers who find themselves going down rabbit holes about their favorite artists, Claude, an AI thinking partner, helps you explore those deeper questions. Whether you're wondering about the connections between different scenes, trying to understand what drove a particular creative period, or exploring how social movements influenced sound, Claude works through these complex cultural puzzles with you.

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27:38This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. One of the things I think is universal to nearly everyone is that warm feeling you get when you find someone you feel comfortable sharing parts of your life with that otherwise you might just keep to yourself. Often it's a friend, sometimes it's a loved one, but in those moments you really take a load off. That's one of the things I've enjoyed most about therapy, that there's someone regularly in my life that I'm able to talk to about things I'd probably keep to myself for longer than I really needed to. And they're clinically trained and licensed to help.

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28:38Our listeners get 10 % off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash broken. That's BetterHelp.com slash broken. What kind of preparation do you do for a record like that? And then we can maybe listen to some so people can hear what that sounds like. Well, for the Willie Nelson record, I met him in Las Vegas, and we drove in to California with Emmylou. And as we were crossing to California, I called my crew and said, OK, you've got to make the place look like a club. Because I asked Willie, what was it like when you were a kid, man, when you were getting started? He says, well, we were just a dance band.

29:22And we played these really nice clubs around Austin. And we had a responsibility, you know, cheek-to-cheek dancing, two-step, you know. So that's what we were. We were a dance band. And the clubs were beautiful. I thought, well, why don't we recreate this environment for Willie? So my crew, there was a Mexican restaurant across the street that just had refurbished. And they had the old benches and booths. So they gave them to us. so we set up the benches and booths all over the place and dimmed the lights i had little risers and you wouldn't even think of it because it was in an old theater my my studio at the time and willie walked in he said wow man this what is this i said well this is your new club and we made uh that record with no headphones the drummers wore headphones but uh nobody else did and we just sort of knocked him out i had a good relationship with the police department in those days.

30:16And I said to them, listen, Willie's in the parking lot. Please don't bother him. You see any smoke signals? Just turn the blind eye. And I guess in case we forgot to mention, it was in Ventura, California. Yeah, that's right. Oxnard, actually. Oxnard, excuse me. Which is an agricultural area for the U.S. It's an incredible place. And it was an abandoned theater that I rented for four years with a friend. and we made a lot of music. I recorded Billy Bob Thornton's Sling Blade soundtrack in that theater as well.

30:54You recorded that with him there and he spent a lot of time there with you while you were doing it, right? With Billy Bob? Billy Bob, right? Oh yeah, yeah. This is before cell phones. It's hard to imagine before cell phones. It's not like I'm 100 years old. He used to call me from a phone booth. and he'd say, how's it looking, Dan? I'd say, well, I've got a couple of things to play. And he'd come down, and we'd listen to things together, and he'd say, oh, that's great. Let's try and put her over here. And we'd use, okay, Jen, you're going to laugh at this, because our synchronization system was, okay, you're watching a scene, and then somebody touches the doorknob, that's when you start playing.

31:35And we'd do a take, and they'd say, ah, that's great. Let's hear it back. So we'd cue up, and I'd put a chalk mark on my, It was analog tape, and I just put a chalk mark on the playback head. I said, here comes the doorknob. And then we would make him a VHS of that, and then his editor would just copy what we had done to synchronize it. That's amazing. But we should play some of that Willie record, just so people get a sense that in four days, to make this kind of a sounding record in a makeshift club in sleepy, you know, Oxnard, California. I'll play this as the maker from that album.

33:01Then I look at the drummers. You guys ready?

33:20Oh, deep water

33:28Black and cold like the night

33:39I stand with arms wide open I run up the sideline I'm strange in the eye I'm sorry, that's a fun ball. I was trying to improvise along with the music. I'm trying to contribute and I should not. I quite liked it. It was like a DJ set. Yes, the worst DJ set you've ever heard. laraji is at you right i haven't seen you in such a long time man we were on the same label for a while me and laraji nice to see your brother oh man i really you know stepped right on willie's beautiful oh that's okay you know something um willie sings like a i mean and then that's your song what was it like to hear willie sing a song that you wrote uh it's quite an honor when somebody sings one of my songs.

34:38It's happened a few times. Willie sang another one. I wrote one called Cruel World. For the... For a video game.

34:52We were meant to write it together, but Willie was in Hawaii, and there was some kind of a storm, and he couldn't make it back to Los Angeles. And he said, well, you write it, man, and, you know, come and see me when you got it done. So I finished it. And I thought, well, how are we going to get Willie to do it? So I call his son Micah because Rothbaum, his manager, said, listen, if I mention anything, he won't do it. So you do it. You call him to convince him. So I talked to Micah, his son. I said, well, listen, if we show up, can we set up in the garage or it's got a little side room? Can we set it up?

35:33and then we'll have all the sounds ready and then we'll get the lyrics on them all and see if he can sing it. He rolled out a bit and came down, looked at it. He said, who wrote this song? I said, Willie, I did. We were supposed to write it together. Anyhow, we did a little take right on the spot and that's the one that made his way into the video game. Well, let me play a little of that since I stepped on Willie earlier. It's also a really great song.

36:07Cruel, cruel world, must I go on Cruel, cruel world, I'm moving on I've been living too fast And I've been living too long Cruel, cruel world, I'm gone This big old world sure got me running around I heard of all this, said just settle down And with the moonlight as my guide And with this feeling deep inside I know now that I am homeward bound Cruel, cruel world must I go home Cruel, cruel world, I'm moving on I've been living too fast And I've been living too wrong Cruel, cruel world, I'm gone Let his soul go, isn't that crazy?

37:31That's Willie.

37:37All right. I mean, again, like there's no drums on that, but it's also just imbued with like just a wonderful sense of rhythm. Yeah, well, it's just me and Micah and Willie sitting in his garage. He sounds like a kid. He sounds really good. That's a good thing for every young. How many takes do you get with Willie? You don't get many takes with Willie. One, maybe two. He's just so great with phrasing that you can't disagree with him. Does he rehearse a song like that? Well, I don't know if it's politically correct to say this, but let's not kill the fucker. That's what he used to say to me. I said, don't do it too many times.

38:34You're going to knock all the spontaneity and the juice out of it if you do it too many times. Thank you for not killing Willie. It's all right. And still getting a wonderful take.

38:48you also got for that you got you got D 'Angelo to do a song you wrangled that's right yeah worked with D 'Angelo and that was a real special I went in with a song in mind that didn't work out very well and he said to me I'm not feeling this you know what do you want to do i said well give me a day in the studio and i prepared a a track with a brian blade drum beat that i had and um i just came up with a whole other song that i had uh that i presented to him as a co-write with uh rocco deluca myself and d 'angelo and it worked out really well he's got an amazing left hand. We cut it. I already had the drums, as I said, with Brian Blade and with Cyril Neville playing percussion.

39:42Wow. And then I built... We performed him on Rhodes and me on guitar, an acoustic guitar amplified. And he has the most amazing left hand because D 'Angelo was an organist prodigy. in his father's church. So he's got that amazing dexterity with the left hand. So I never had to add a bass because he had the most beautiful left hand part, you know, the Rhodes. Were you a fan of D 'Angelo before that? Were you much aware of his work? I was aware of his work, yes. I always admired his sense of time. You know, he talked about everybody has their own way of looking at time. And the behind the beat thing that he mastered beautifully and never to be forgotten.

40:38I don't know if it's necessary to ever get to that again because on, is it Black Messiah? Yeah, I think on Black Messiah, you listen to the grooves on that. It's like, oh my goodness, it's really a whole other way of looking at time. Yeah, I would love to hear you guys work again. That was such an unexpected, I mean, unexpected that he put something out because he doesn't always do that. Unexpected that you guys co-wrote something together and performed it. I mean, it was just beautiful. Yeah, he was... Apparently, we were pretty fast by comparison to his usual pace. You know, we knocked it out pretty quick in a couple of weeks.

41:18And yeah, you didn't kill him either. D 'Angelo, you didn't kill D 'Angelo after. Yeah, right here in New York, you know. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, man. Love that guy. You mentioned Cyril Neville of the great Neville Brothers. Yeah, yeah. And Yellow Moon, which you did with the Neville Brothers. Yeah, Yellow Moon is a special record out of New Orleans. I had gone to New Orleans to get away from the world. I rented a little apartment and was happy to be working on my own music. And then, but they found me. And they said, hey, Lanwa, why don't you produce a Neville Brothers record? I had him come over my apartment, and we did some demos that worked out pretty well.

42:07And on the strength of those demos, we decided to carry on and finish an album. In fact, I think one or two of the tracks from that record came out of my apartment. And I had a cheap little mixer, a little hill mixer, and a 12-track Akai, some bizarre recording system. And my mixing machine was a little Sony cassette machine, a very nice machine cassette with Dolby on it and everything. I never bettered those mixes, and I never told anybody. I used a cassette mix system for the album. Nobody ever said anything. Wow. No reason to. It was gorgeous. You know, there was something about the compression and the usual things that happened, you know.

42:56I want to... I don't care, really. What medium would he use? Who cares about mediums? Who cares? Exactly right. Yes. You should listen a little of... I want to listen to the song Voodoo from that record. Okay. We'll listen to a touch of that.

43:16Keep quiet there, Brett. Thank you.

43:49You just love the South.

43:55Unbelievable.

44:20Oh, to make a love so strong

44:27It must have sprinkled dust all around my bed It must have had a black cat bone

44:40Oh, just out of a glance When do you cut this off? I don't even know when to take this off. I could listen to a loop of that. Yeah. forever. I know. It's hard to look back and hard to look ahead. It is. Yes, it is. Couldn't agree more. Well, okay, I'll give the trick away. They were all very good percussionists. And so I said to them, well, let's not play the song just yet. Let's build a percussion loop. So I had everybody playing percussion. And you can hear it at the beginning. So that's all the Neville brothers playing percussion, various cowbells and whatnot on that fade in on that fade in and we played it maybe uh maybe a 15 minute jam of percussion they'd go home i'd find the best 16 bars of that and loop this was like we're talking loops right you know like tape loops in those days kind of around the room around stands and pulleys and whatnot and i dropped the the best part of the percussion back to the multi-track and when they came in the next day they cut the track to their own percussion wow so it was a way of of having a fixed time metronomic time but not a click habit be something that's got a lot of feel to it as you can hear in the track and then um we're lucky enough to have a mean willie green on the drums and tony hall on the bass these are top level New Orleans players.

46:10I can't say enough about New Orleans. You know, I mean, I'm a French Canadian kid. I go down there and I get a groove like that.

46:21Incredible. And you were, so, I mean, and this is a time, I guess, to set the scene as well. Like you had mentioned, you went down there to just do some recording. And you were, so at this time, you're recording Yellow Moon with the Nevels. you're recording Bob Dylan's Oh Mercy that's a little bit later but same era and you're also just a few months apart a few months apart and you're recording your own debut album Acadie the three albums done over the course of about nine months Dylan was on tour he stopped in my agent Bono lined up the rendezvous Bob stopped in and And played him a couple of tracks, including, we had already recorded With God on Her Side, which is one of Bob's songs.

47:10For Yellow Moon. For Yellow Moon. At Aaron's request, he wanted to cut that song. And we did a very powerful version of it. I played it for Bob. And he says, that sounds like a record. That's a big compliment from Bob. And he said, boy, you really got a thing going on here, Dan. And I said, well, why don't we make your record here, not in this location, but in New Orleans? And I said, if you come back in the springtime, I'll have a whole setup ready for you. You don't need to bring any instruments, no musicians, nothing. Just show up with your songs. And he agreed to that. And that's how we did it.

47:49Wow. Wow. And that is, again, that's another, that's an album too where, I mean, did you get to, that's an, I guess to put that in context, that's a Dylan album where I mean the songs are just incredibly inspired did you did he come with songs or was he yeah oh yeah he came with songs although he wrote some in New Orleans he wrote one called Man in a Long Black Coat that was written in New Orleans that's an amazing one yeah he was very inspired by the whole scene we had motorcycles nice vintage motorcycles and all and he said can you get me one of these and we got him a nice 66 harley a real beauty and so we he was having a good time you know just uh nobody knew he was there and he'd be riding in the night and being inspired by the sequoias and the moisture and just everything that new orleans has you know it's a very magic place i was always curious um It turned up later, I saw the very next record Bob did, there was Under the Red Sky, if I have that in the right order.

49:08And then a handful of maybe a decade ago, as he's doing his bootleg releases, I noticed some outtakes from the sessions you guys did for songs that ended up on that God Knows and Born in Time. Yeah, that's right, yeah. And I didn't know, so how many songs did you guys record? And how did you go about, was that something, a decision only Bob could make, whether a song makes the record? Well, we cut more material than we needed to make an album. And I was sad to see this one not get on the record called Series of Dreams. I might have made a mistake by not lobbying for it more than I did. but if ever you hear that one that's a real masterpiece a series of dreams has that come out?

49:58do you know? it did come out, yeah thank you yeah it did it has a series of dreams almost a a look at his own life and the journey that he took yeah it's worth a listen to that it's quite touching is a very emotional delivery.

50:25And I want to play a little from your own record recorded around that time as well, Arcady, the song that we heard. We'll listen to the two, we'll play The Maker, which we heard Willie do on his record. Yes. Which one were you thinking? We'll play The Maker. Oh, we already heard it. We heard it. Let's hear it again. Just to hear the difference. Just to hear the difference. or do you want to play what would you like to hear from it um

50:57still water sounds pretty good that's a good one yeah opener can't go wrong

51:09that's Larry Mullen on the drum from U2 yeah

51:24Sad eyes, sad eyes Where you going with that confidence? Sad eyes, sad eyes Where you going with that confidence? I'm going to have the boats go by Caledonia River flow so wide I'm going to have the boats go by Caledonia River flow so wide Still water Lay for birds Still water Laying over still water Laying over Caledonia River oh so wide Wild eyes in the wilderness Where you going with the devil in hand Adam Clayton on the bass. Wild eyes in the wilderness Where you gone with the devil in hand And Eno did some background vocals I'm going to build the bridges high For working money, working money I'm going to climb the bridges high Caledonia, brother, far away Still That's Eno there.

53:13How do you get this talented? You do everything that well. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. I mean, this is something that LaRange knows well, that Saul is the governor, and we don't carry on with anything if it doesn't have that intact. intact you know even even as a seed the beginning of something has to have some kind of soul to it to keep motivating as we move along laurie how you doing oh wow some familiar faces there um um and so what you're hearing there you know started with with uh quite a strong feeling that we were you know acting as a keel for for the rest of the work And the worst thing that I can do in the studio is build on something that doesn't have that and that never really works out.

54:16So the soul is the governor. You can hear that. You can definitely hear that. After this break, we'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Daniel Lanois. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Oocla Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged.

55:02With a network that adapts in real time, your business stays operating at peak capacity, even in times of high demand. With built-in security on the first nationwide 5G advanced network, you keep private data private for you, your team, your clients. And with seamless coverage from the world's largest satellite-to-mobile constellation, your whole team can text and stay updated even when they're off the grid. That's your business, Supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com. Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the U.S. where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ukla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 1H 2025.

55:47The greatest music stories aren't always in the songs themselves. They're in the late night studio sessions, the chance encounters, and the cultural moments that shaped entire movements. For music lovers who find themselves going down rabbit holes about their favorite artists, Claude, an AI thinking partner, helps you explore those deeper questions. Whether you're wondering about the connections between different scenes, trying to understand what drove a particular creative period, or exploring how social movements influenced sound, Claude works through these complex cultural puzzles with you.

56:18It's built for people who know that understanding music means understanding the human stories behind it. Claude doesn't just compile facts. It helps you see patterns across decades of music history, ask the kinds of follow-up questions that reveal deeper truths, and works through the nuanced relationships between artists, movements, and moments. Whether you're a music journalist, industry professional, or someone who just lives for understanding the stories behind the sounds, Claude matches your level of curiosity about what really drives great art. Try Claude for free at Claude.ai slash brokenrecord and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner.

56:56Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them. Machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing.

57:33Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. after making some records like that how do you decide to leave new orleans i don't know if i ever would have left if i were um you're going to do amazing work and to mind you but i left new orleans to go to mexico because i wanted to keep going south um um yeah that's it i i thought i was i always like something about mexican uh bass lines and i still don't fully comprehend in them to this day. And so those amazing three-fours, you know, with odd bass lines and kind of in-between rhythms, they've got a little D 'Angelo in them themselves. Yeah, yeah. Because it's such an old culture of those grooves that they've found all the isms and the in-betweens, and it's quite touching for me to hear them.

58:31And I just wanted to keep going further south, and I still want to keep going further south. What are we doing here? Where are you going next? Let's go. Did you make any records in Mexico? Yes, I had Brian Blade down there and Daryl Johnson, great bass player from New Orleans. Brian's from Shreveport. So I was in the presence of two of the finest and we went down there and for about a year I was stationed down there in Mexico I came up with a lot of very great psychedelic music that I still have in my library. Some of it's unreleased. Oh, man. Maybe we'll get to it one of these days. You got to put that out.

59:16Man, and I just got to say, I mean, you're always, again, Brian Blade, Tony Hall, Daryl Jones. I mean, you're always just got the most incredible rhythm sections with you, you know? Well, why not? You know, it's... Yeah, why not? I mean, there's great players out there, and I just need to build a little nest and lay some eggs. Oh, man. I asked you about a song, speaking of songs that are from deep within your catalog and weren't released, or this one came out, but you're saying maybe you shouldn't have put it out. But I asked you about a song called Warm Up to the Heart, which came out on a series of releases called Omni, or it was a three-disc release.

1:00:01Would you mind playing through that a bit? Well, Justin, you know, I'll do it for you, man. I haven't played it since, so let's see if I can get through it. Thank you. Thank you.

1:00:25I'll do a preamble.

1:00:40The End

1:01:10Thank you.

1:01:38The End

1:02:03Oh, my God.

1:02:33Thank you.

1:03:13The End

1:03:40The End

1:04:07The End

1:04:35Thank you.

1:05:24Thank you. Thank you.

1:05:34Maybe while we're here, we can talk a little bit about this technique of turning up loud but playing quiet. Please. Which is, Donna knows this well, because she's a fan of Jimi Hendrix, as I am. And so you can pluck a note. Garth, you cranked me up about 15, 20 percent. I'll give you an example of this. so I pluck a note and then I bring the shimmer up

1:06:16so I'm not doing anything here

1:06:22Thank you.

1:06:49Thank you.

1:07:29Thank you.

1:07:56piano plays softly

1:08:17So it's a technique that I found pretty early on in my playing, because I wasn't about to be a great Texas steel guitar player, So I thought, well, maybe there's something in there that belongs to me. So that's one of the things that came to me, is if I play the melody. Let me just clean things up. We'll play Danny Boy.

1:09:03.

1:09:22So the little scraping that I do triggers the notes that I didn't play in the melody, but they're in the chord. And so you get them, ba-da-ba-ba, And then it's as if somebody had written a little arrangement of harmonics surrounding the melody. And so that's a technique that I'd like to use. And it takes me to those what I call Bernard Herrmann type chords, one of my favorite American composers. So I can be...

1:09:57Excuse me. Sorry, that was fault of my shoe.

1:10:15Then I got the scraping sound.

1:10:45And Wayne, where's Wayne? Wayne Lorenz built me this little sustain machine here that goes...

1:11:20I can think of them as little hidden chords available in between melodies that make the, almost as if harmonics are a little orchestra behind the melody. And it's because you're playing softly and because you've turned the volume up so loud that you're able to... And I can do the shimmer thing that I described. It's a technique that Jamaican bass players have used historically, where you turn up super loud, all the bass, bass all the way up, treble all the way down, but you play soft. You don't hammer it, because then you kill the sound. So it's a similar philosophy. Did you know that when you, did you discover that after you discovered this technique?

1:12:12Or did you know that? Well, it was pretty easy to figure out what the bass players were doing in Jamaica. you know I'm not saying I played like them but I could figure it out

1:12:29not everyone has I can say that I think a lot of soul would be part of the recipe back to soul so I don't know if I can say let me play a little melody for you that I wrote as a hymn and it made its way into the film Friday Night Light if anyone ever saw that film, just when they don't make that last yard, the screen goes silent and it goes slow-mo and then this tune come up.

1:13:21Thank you.

1:13:59The End

1:14:37I'll kill my echoes here and let Garth do his thing. Garth, you're on. He's got this beautiful surround sound. Here is designed by John Meyer, one of the greats.

1:15:03Oh, my God.

1:15:23Thank you.

1:15:50and

1:16:18Now when I play live I usually go crazy with this with a much bigger sound. Let's see if I can get away with it here.

1:16:51I'll go to a raindrop sound to try and take it home.

1:17:30Oh, my God.

1:17:56Now this will be the Laurie Anderson sound.

1:18:48Oh, my God.

1:19:13Oh, that's beautiful.

1:19:21Now these folks have put a lot of time into this room. Behind these panels are multiple speakers. And designed by John Meyer, one of the greats. And Garth up there is at the helm. Thank you, Garth. You could hear the, when I asked Garth to give us the beautiful surround sound, it developed more of an expanse. Yeah, absolutely. So we look for things like that in the studio. I mean John has obviously done it here in a physical space but we try and create the we are illusionists really as record makers so we create a sense of depth because if everything's on the same plane if you have everything on the same plane where you don't have things sounding far away then that's not as interesting a painting so if you think of music as a painting it's nice to see something in the shadows and maybe on a second listen you hear a little component that you hadn't noticed before and keeps you curious about a work.

1:20:23And I think great photographs have that in them, great films. Donna's plan has that. You know, she, I won't go on too much more, Donna. She's my favorite guitarist right now. We're working together and I got a couple of tricks up my sleeve for you. so depth we're experiencing it in this room as small as it is but it hasn't there's a sense of depth and depth in sound and depth in sentiment well i think that's a great note to go out on we're not going to get any better than that play i'm glad i'm glad i let you hear that little hymn because there's something about these it's obviously designed in an ancient manner it's as if it could have been written you know a hundred years ago it has a little bit of Ireland in it and I spent a lot of time there and I think I wrote that song that little melody in Ireland you did?

1:21:24mm-hmm I used to walk home from work every night looking down at the Liffey Liffey is the river runs through Dublin and on a quiet night it's almost spilling over the brim and it's like black, like you're looking at a black mirror. That river was so inspiring to me. I spent years looking at that river. That's amazing. Well, thank you so much, Daniel Lanois, everybody.

1:21:57You can find a link to a playlist of some of our favorite Daniel Lanois works in the episode description. And again, to see the video version of this episode, visit youtube.com slash broken record podcast. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at the broken record pod. You can follow us on Twitter at broken record. Broken Record is produced by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolanet. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month.

1:22:38Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richman.

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1:24:43This is an iHeart Podcast.