Daryl Hall

30:36yeah and uh and i knew david and uh so i mean yeah i was familiar with all this stuff that was going on right because you guys opened for david bowie too around 72 ish i was really early yeah how was lou reed on the tour

30:54he was it was the the sally can't dance no more tour so they can't dance no more uh yeah and uh he was strange, man. I mean, to say that is just to be obvious. I mean, Lou was a very unusual man. And I kind of liked him. I liked his attitude. I liked him. He just didn't give a fuck. You know, he was a curmudgeon. But yet, he wasn't. You know, there was a lot going on with Lou Reed that I think more than people even realize. And I wound up living in New York City. I lived next door to him. So, I mean, not only did I go on tour with him, but I used to see him walking his dog and things like that.

31:40And I wouldn't say he was a friendly man, but, you know. Would you talk, though? Would you, you know, keep a cordial? Usually I'd say something to me. You'd go, hey, how you doing, man? What do you make of his songwriting? I was just with Dave Stewart, and Dave Stewart has a book of Lou Reed's lyrics. And I was in between doing stuff that we were doing. And this just happened last week. And I started reading his lyrics and the early stuff, the Velvet stuff. I mean, it's good. It's just, it's completely different than anybody else. I mean, you take a song like, I don't know, Sister Ray or something like that.

32:22I mean, the words are just amazing. It's a slice of life. an ugly life and a fucked up life but but it's you know he he managed to to create a mood that was based on something that really was and uh i respect him i thought about him a bit when i was listening back through your records because with lou it always felt like there was um he knew how to write a pop song and just subverted the hell out of it you know and it felt like you could do either thing like it's felt like you could write the perfect pop song you could write the most subversive weird thing with robert i mean it's like an everything in between you know yeah i mean that's that that describes by the way my brain works i i can i can do go both ways you know or a lot of ways i always say i speak a lot of musical languages yeah do you remember do you remember any of water wheel i remember but i would never be able to sing it because my voice ain't near that high anymore man i hear you call me oh um that i wrote that i i was just out of high school when i wrote that you know the the philly scene it was uh it was a really strange thing there was a big folk scene going on too and uh i i heard i heard something that made me want to write that.

33:47I don't remember what it was. And it was basically written in that tradition. And it was certainly different than anything I was doing when I was working with Game on Up or something. It's interesting how nostalgic you can be just out of high school. Yeah. I know. I think all these songs I wrote, I seem to be obsessed with writing songs about nostalgia and being older and all that when i was just a kid i don't know why i thought that way don't ask me yeah but to be able to write a song like water wheel it wasn't a hit but sounds in so many ways like a um a perfect pop song from that era of when songs sounded like that then to be able to go and do something like you know i mean just united state you know on voices and then to do um i mean one of my favorites like i'm in a philly mood you know in like 93 94 i mean that you have that kind of a range you can write in all of these various styles these things that are just like deep and incredible is is something else yeah well i i mean don't ask me why i can do that but i i seem to have the ability to do it my ears are open and and i have i have that facility I guess.

35:09I would never be able to explain that. And by the way, I just want to say, you put your voice down, but I watched the Fripp live at Daryl's house, you and Robert Fripp, and your version of NYCNY that you did probably, what, just two years ago sounds better than the record. I still do that. We should talk about Dave Stewart because you did a record with him in the 80s. I think your third or second solo record, you guys just did a record together last year, D. How did you guys come together? Like many things. I met him. I just met him. Somebody introduced me to him. And they said, actually, somebody said, you guys should get together.

35:54I think you'd enjoy each other's company. And he was, I've lived in London for a lot of time. I don't live there right now. But for years and years, I lived in London. So I went up to his house at the time he was living up in Maida Vale. And I went in and we immediately started, I mean, I literally went into his house. He says, come downstairs. And we started writing a song. That was the way I met Dave Stewart. We've been friends ever since. You know, we just get along. I don't know what it is. And he makes me feel creatively. He's a very stimulating person. He makes me feel alive. He's a gigantic bundle of energy.

36:34and he's extremely smart and extremely full of ideas. Like, I can't even tell you how, but it never stops with him. And I don't know, he's just fun to be with. And so over the years, we made that record, we made the Three Hearts album and had a great time doing it. And then over the years, we've written a few things and done things together and he's played on some of the records and done things with him. And more recently, I told him about a place I live in the Bahamas, and he wound up buying a house down there. So we're neighbors now on top of it all. You know, it's family. It's really become family.

37:18You might have figured out the life, if you're moving between New York, London, and the Bahamas. That's a good triangle. This might be the perfect triangle. His stuff with the eurythmics is, I mean, his stuff in general, But I mean, that rhythmic stuff to this day, I've been revisiting it because I've been playing it for my kids. And that stuff's mind-blowing still. He wrote those songs, you know. Yeah. And that's his productions. And he's a great singer, by the way, which doesn't hurt. She sang the shit out of that stuff. And yeah, I mean, he has a great body of work. The sounds you guys got on the new record, I mean, the whole world's better.

38:00Yeah. Beautiful sound. Yeah, that song, I love playing it. Recently, in my latest tours, I'm starting the show with that because there's just something about it. And, you know, when you just bang that thing out, you know.

38:23You know? It just, wow! It just makes you stand up. I wrote that song about one subject, and I had most of that song, and then it turned into something else, and it became anthemic. And that was Dave's idea to put the, you know, you know, all in the end. And we just had people come in, friends from the island, they came in and sang. So it became a real communal, anthemic kind of song. What was the song originally about? It was about, like many of my songs, I had a very tempestuous relationship with my late wife. And I don't know, she was so moody. What I would hear her saying in the kitchen, everything got better.

39:14That's where it started. Is there an early version of that that you can share a bit of? No, not really, because I had the chorus. That was the original. And then I had the chords of the song, but I didn't have the words. And that's when it turned into something else. You know, when I was with Dave and I had a melody without any words to go with it. And then I wrote, with his major help, I wrote the lyrics. Would you mind giving us a little of the chorus? Just because you gave us a bit and it's too good. The chorus is... starts again.

40:00The whole world's better when you starts again.

40:09There it is. It's a moving song. You know, it comes from a real emotion. Everything I write comes from something real. And people ask me, you're a new musician in the world, what do you do? I said, you've got to believe it. You got to live it. It's got to be something that almost makes you want to cry inside or does make you cry inside. Just me playing that, I just got a feeling in my throat because it brought back the memories of when I wrote it. Yeah, like that. Yeah. You mentioned your late wife, Sarah Allen, Janet Allen, were incredible inspirations and collaborators. Without a doubt. Along your career?

40:57Both Sarah and Jana, they played such a large part in the song from the 80s. Jana originated Private Eyes, and she originated Kiss on My List, things like that. They were complete collaborations. And Sarah is a really good lyricist, really good lyricist, and she contributed a lot. Did they figure how to channel that from being around you? I think so. I don't know if I just gave it off. I mean, they were both musical people, especially Jana. I mean, Jana's a guitar player and a singer and all that. Sandy is a singer, but more just a music lover. And I think proximity had to do with it. And I don't know, something rubbed off, and they just came up with really good ideas, and they would throw them out and just compliment things, really.

41:52Add to the quality of whatever it is that I was coming up with. How would Jana bring like a private eyes to you? She actually made a demo of that. The chorus was there, but then I kind of fleshed out the verses. I changed, you know, that's a pretty complicated chord progression, all the chords. And so that had to do with me. I was doing that. But she came up with private eyes, watching you. They see your every move. She came up with that. That was her. Can you play through a bit of that chord progression? Okay, let's see here. I can't believe that I have to think about it. Private eyes, they're watching you.

42:31They see your every move. Private eyes, they're watching you. Private eyes, they're watching you. They're watching you. Oh, man. So she had those chords, or? She came up with the chords. Well, okay. Watching you, watching you. That's me. You can tell, right? But her was a sugar.

43:07She came up with that. Wow. What a gift. Yeah. Well, she had one. And talk about, you know, I don't know, man, tragedy sometimes. I mean, she died really young. She got leukemia and died. She was 39 years old. And I still miss her. Did that impact you and Sarah working together? Sarah was my partner. But did it impact it? I can't say it didn't. It kind of put disruption in our family. Yeah. That kind of personal stuff, would you put that into music? I do all the time. I'm not afraid to put it all out there. The most obvious one is the one in the D album and the new album one. I'd rather be a fool.

43:54I mean, this is the end of that song. I'm just saying it. When you put something like that down, does it ever give you pause? I'm not afraid. I put my emotions right out there. Rather be a fool is a very direct version of that. You can't look at my music without hearing the reality of it. It's all in there. Has it ever caused, maybe not problems, has it ever caused friction with people that you're close to? I think I've made some people sad. I'm saying that with a smirk on my face, which is terrible. I don't feel smirky about it. But I don't know. I mean, the truth hurts sometimes. And that doesn't mean you can't speak the truth.

44:41I had a conversation with Michael McDonald about a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago. And he told a story about, I think it was, I can't remember which Doobie's record it was now, but one of the records wasn't doing so well. and one of the black NRs at Warner said like, this should go on, this should go on black radio, you know, living on the fault line. That's what it was. And sent it to black radio, black radio loved it and kind of saved that version of the band. But it occurred to me like, you know, like the Doobies, there was a lot, there was a number of groups like that, that they kind of got eventually pigeonholed as yacht rock.

45:23But really what it was was just, they were just R &B guys. They're just making R &B records and they were white. And so this is something I don't understand. First of all, Yacht Rock was a fucking joke by two jerk offs in California. And suddenly it became a genre and I don't even understand it. I never understood it. And I totally, man, I'm glad you're saying that. It's just R &B. It's just another with some, maybe some jazz in there. It's mellow R &B. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's smooth R &B. Yeah. I don't see what the yacht part is. Yeah. But it seemed like, you know, it seemed like with the Doobies, for instance, like, because they were white guys, they didn't know where to, or not all of them, but the majority, Michael McDonald's white.

46:09And it's like, they didn't know where to put it. It's like, well, I can't go on black because you guys aren't black. But, you know, the white audience, they want to hear, you know, whatever they want. But it doesn't feel like you guys necessarily ever had that issue from my vantage point. I don't know if you feel that way. I was more of a pioneer. I mean, my music, when I was, I had a group called the Ten Tones, and I had a pretty top 20 hit in Philadelphia, you know, at 1WDAS. And Sarah Smile broke on R &B, on black radio. It had to make its way to pop radio. That's how Hall & Oates started. That's our origins.

46:50and people misjudged us and because they couldn't label us, they came up with all this kind of crap, soft rock and yacht rock and all this other nonsense. And none of it really describes anything that I do, really. Yeah. Or it doesn't describe anything anybody does. I didn't realize Sarah Smile broke on Black Radio first. Yeah, out of Ohio, RB Station, Ohio. Not Dayton, but someplace like that. and then it spread to the R &B charts. And it wasn't until after it was a gigantic record in the R &B charts that it went to pop radio. Makes sense. I mean, that is a hell of a soulful record. And listening to a recent, I've always, I play guitar, so I was always taken by the guitar part, and I love vocals, so I was always taken by the vocal.

47:43I hadn't paid proper attention to the bass until recently, but I think it was Leland Sklar on there? I think it was Lee. The guy that played that amazing guitar solo was Christopher Bond. And that is one of the most beautiful, amazing introduction guitar solos ever written. It really is. I mean, the notes played and the way it's played, the way he approaches it. What an amazing guy. He was a very unusual guy. He's unfortunately not with us anymore. Your vocal runs on there too are, I mean, just your choices vocally are, I mean. I was just being, again, just, I don't know. That was a real, that was reality, man.

48:23I wrote that song like a postcard to Sandy, that was Sarah Allen. And I don't know, there it is. Yeah. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Daryl Hall. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at OOCLAS Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged.

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51:01Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them. Machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing.

51:38Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. How would you approach in the studio, like a song like Alone, just thinking of that album now, like Alone, Too Long? That's a John song, right? That's a John song. How much would you involve yourself with John's songs, I guess? I would do all the backgrounds and everything. I would flesh out. John would have the song. And this goes with any of his songs that were on a Holomones record. Like Had I Known You Better Than or something like that. And Alone Too Long. And I would come up with a vocal arrangement that would accompany his song. And do all the parts.

52:19Sing, if it was a three-part harmony, I'd sing three parts. And, I mean, when you listen to Hall & Oates records, that's all me singing. Like Kiss on My List, that's all me singing the backgrounds. Occasionally, John would sing a part on a record, and sometimes I would sing the parts and then tell him to sing over one of the parts. That's how we did it. I mean, I did it, excuse me. Was there anything in your view special about your blends, just the way your voices would blend? Well, the reason it blended, because it was all me. Okay. I can blend with myself, man. When might you, though, decide, John, sing this.

52:59I got something for you. Sing this. Like, when would that occur to you? Because I wouldn't add his timbre to the background. It was one of those things. I mean, John has a very distinct voice. It's not a bad voice either. Hey, I'm not putting that down. And on stage, you could tell when we were working together, I mean, you wouldn't know in a million years. but he was more of a take dictation kind of a singer you know like sing this i mentioned i'm in a philly mood that's one of those songs that makes me wish i was actually from philly which i could say i'm in a philly mood that whole record but i mean that that song is incredible borderline you have a mariah sang backgrounds on a song and co-wrote a song yeah she wrote What was that one?

53:51Help me find a way. Find a way to your heart. Yeah. Yeah. That was Syro with Mariah. Yeah. Philly Mood is one of my favorite songs I ever wrote. I play that every show. I love singing it. I like playing it. It really describes the way I feel and the way I felt. And again, the scenes that I was creating, boy, is that real. That's a very emotional song to me. Kind of like Tony Bennett's I Left My Heart in San Francisco. go it's the mood man it's that's it's the mood you worked with a couple of folks from the family stand which i feel like that group is is sort of maybe the last time a bit but um they were really really cool they were really cool i don't know why that didn't really stick around you know they and and peter and jeff that's peter lord and jeff smith that was a really interesting combo that we going.

54:43That was a talk about Philly mood. You know, Peter was really good. He egged me on. You know, he really he brought a certain thing out of me that I don't think anybody else has. You know, and I think that that Soul Alone record sort of reflects that. It reflects the thing that he brought out in me. Do you think you can put into words what he brought out of you? No, I can't. It's just something. That certain kind of jazz soul thing that I occasionally do, but brought that to the front. When you did Help Me Find a Way to Your Heart with Mariah, I think Emotions maybe had been a hit at that point, but were you very familiar with her?

55:23Oh, yeah. It was Tommy Mottola's girlfriend. I mean, my God. She actually came up with a chorus to that, and she played it for me, and then it went from there. So that song started with her? Yeah. She sent me that. She sent me a tape. Help me find a way to your heart. And then I kind of enhanced it. I always feel like people sleep on Mariah as a songwriter, you know, as someone who can write a song. I think Mariah is a very talented person, as we all know. But I think that she got into that old diva thing with the big voice and all over the place. voice. But that kind of takes away from the source of it, you know, the fact that she can put together a good song.

56:17She's good, man. Mariah's happening. Yeah. Are you going to do any more live from Daryl's house? Is that it? I'm doing one on Tuesday. And I'm not going to tell you with who because I never do. But yeah, that's an ongoing project. I've been doing it for a long long time. And I've decided instead of doing whole seasons, I'm just going to do occasional ones, maybe in groups of one and two, three or something like that, and just keep adding to my YouTube channel. What does that add to your life, your creative life, doing that show? I love it. I love Life in Daryl's House. I love doing it. It's the most stimulating experience that you can imagine because we don't do any rehearsing.

57:01Only the most rudimentary do we know what's happening. And so everybody is completely on their toes doing it for the first time. There's an artist in there that may or may not be comfortable and I have to make them comfortable. Sometimes, you know, sometimes, especially the heritage artists, they're stuck in their ways and I have to unstick them. You know, there's so many things going on. And then we have those amazing conversations around dinner and the whole thing. It's an amazing experience. Usually it takes me two days to recover from one. Have you ever come out of one feeling like, oh, maybe we could do a whole record together, you know?

57:43Well, yeah. I mean, I've gotten a lot of people. I mean, what I've been doing, instead of making records together, like, okay, I'm going out on the road with Glenn Tilbrook. I'm going to be working with him all year. I think off and on. And he's an LFDH, Life in Daryl's House, alumni at this point. So I think that I came up with this idea based on how we work together that way. And there's a lot of artists like that. Howard Jones is another one that I've done. Todd, obviously. I mean, that's what I do on stage now. I do a version of Life in Daryl's House. And that's maybe more rewarding because I was just thinking, I mean, that you can get, and most especially heritage artists, that you can get them to come and play in that way that you do and get them comfortable, but also sort of be on the edge a bit of, we don't exactly know what we're doing, but we know exactly what we're doing.

58:39Like that's like, I mean, you're basically producing these people and that's not something that I think they're always accustomed to, you know? I am. I am doing exactly that on the spot. And you're right. People aren't accustomed to it. But oddly enough, the brand new artists are the easiest ones because they don't know what's going on. They're just like puppy dogs. They're like, yeah, let's go. Let's do it. You know? Or you take a guy that's been around for as long as me, and he's like, am I doing the right thing here? Am I fucking up? You know? This isn't the way I always sing this song. I mean, it was interesting.

59:12I mean, even seeing the Fripp, I just watched it. I didn't really know that Robert Fripp had been on that. I didn't know how I missed that one, but I was watching that last week. And even he seemed a little, you know, as adventurous as they come, but even he seemed a little nervous, you know. Robert is a very controlled person, but with an amazing sense of humor, I got to add. But no, he was good. He was fine. I think he just was really, he wanted to, he'd been wanting to do this for a long time is what it was. We've been trying to get together for years and then it finally happened. Maybe that showed, you know.

59:46Seeing you guys do, I think it's NYC and why that has that just insane opening riff.

59:57How did he come up with that? I don't know. It's insane. And he's like, you know, I haven't done this in 40 something years. You know, just like, oh, that's the level of his genius is that he's just, these things are just coming out of him, you know? He's unbelievable is what he is. If I wrote that riff, I would never stop playing it. He just comes up with that shit. That's just another riff, you know. Were you into King Crimson in the day? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was very much into that, to his version of progressive rock. Well, I was into him is what I was into. I mean, you know, we did do Red from on the show.

1:00:34And I'm so proud of my band. They just played that. Now, Robert said, I have never been in any organization that ever played that song that it didn't take at least three days to learn it. And these guys just played it. They just listened to it at home by themselves. We got together and we played the motherfucker. You know, I mean, it's one band I got. But that comes, you know, my love for King Crimson comes from back then, Larkstown and Aspick and all that stuff. I mean, I heard the power and the soul in it. And I heard the Stravinsky in it. I heard everything in it. I think that he's a very unique musician.

1:01:12I don't want to keep you too much longer, but I do want to return to, I feel like maybe I glossed over Christopher Bond. We mentioned him a couple of times during the conversation. So he comes in during Abandoned Luncheonette. Was it Arif that brought him in? No, he's a Philly guy. He was in our band. John and I had our little quartet, and he was one of the guys. He was in your band? I didn't realize he was in. Yeah, in the beginning, yeah. Someone else from Philly, I was just curious, What happened to Jim Helmer, who was the drummer in Gulliver, played on Whole Oats? Incredible drum parts on that record.

1:01:49I know. It was good. I lost track of Jim. I lost track of all those guys. I know Tim Moore, he was a songwriter, a guitar player. He lives at Woodstock. That's all I know. But I don't know anything. I have no idea what happened to Jim. Just wondering. While I have you, that always bugged me. Just didn't know what happened to him. You're definitely the first person to ever ask me about Jim Helmer. Which is cool. Just batting clean up here. I do want to ask you about G.E. Smith, too. How important do you feel he was to that version of Hall & Oates? I think he added his very large personality to things.

1:02:29I think that his guitar work on the records that he played on, on the Hall & Oates records, was really, really exceptional. I think he did a lot of things that were really amazing. he didn't get the way he added the GE sound to it you know I mean I'm again a great guitar player and that the GE sound wasn't really a you know a thing that had been on records like that before you know I mean you guys really were the first to get him like that yeah oh he was brand new he was straight out of like he's from Stroudsburg Pennsylvania yeah yeah and I met him when he had just moved out of there basically did you just let him go or was there much shaping would you talk through parts with him or i'd let him go but i would let him go within a controlled situation you know i mean and tell him what i thought and if he did something i didn't like i'd say tell him that too you know he usually did the right thing was that a good relationship overall or we had we had a less than good relationship because he's he's uh he's a strange guy man i mean he i don't know how to put it personality his personality of mine weren't exactly in line that's the best way i'll put it i could put it i think that's a way that everyone can understand yeah it doesn't diminish the talent yeah at this point set list wise when you go do dates?

1:03:57How are you picking a set list? I do a little, well, I'm going to try and emphasize the D album, but I think I'm going to do about four songs from that. That's my plan. Well, I've already been doing that. And other than that, I play things from whatever, you know, from whatever my history is. And there's certain songs that you have to play. I mean, I have to play Sarah Smile, which is fine with me. You know, I mix it up. I play Philly Mood. I play all kinds of things. Well, Daryl Hall, thank you so much for talking about all this. I mean, it's a hell of a musical history. So, I mean, thank you.

1:04:42Well, thanks for having me, man. In the episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist of our favorite Daryl Hall tracks. Be sure to check out youtube.com slash broken record to see all of our video interviews. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at The Broken Record Pod. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Toleday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month.

1:05:25Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.

1:05:41The more you learn about your favorite artists, the more you want to know. Claude helps you keep digging, finding new threads and rabbit holes to explore. Whether it's discovering deeper meaning behind a detail in an interview or figuring out the influence behind an artist's particular era. Claude thinks with you to find the next clue. If you can't get enough of the stories behind your favorite music and artists, Claude will help you discover new layers you didn't know existed. Try Claude for free at claude.ai slash brokenrecord. This episode of Broken Record is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve.

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1:07:29This is an iHeart Podcast.