Elvis Costello

32:38Yeah. And it has this sort of cadence I hear in a lot of your songs, which is the syllables come a little slower in the beginning, but then it really accelerates towards the end. I don't know where it comes from. It's not a conscious imitation of anybody. I think there are some songs within the blueprint where I'm experimenting with the kind of, you know, lyrical voice that I heard in other people and I'm trying to get close to that way of using words or the kind of images that are incorporated to explain things. But I wasn't sitting around analyzing stuff. I was just doing it too fast. You do some wonderful reproductions of lyric sheets.

33:18You said you always kept notebooks. I did meticulously early on. and I still like to write with a pen. I probably will commit too many things directly to a screen but I'm trying all the time to get back to writing because I think the rhythm and the editorial which some of these notebooks reveal is a different use of the mind than reading lines on a screen where they're all the same. They all appear to be the same length because there's no rhythm to the physical handwriting. The problem is you get excitable your own handwriting can be illegible so I might write a brilliant lesson not be able to read it back I trained myself to be able to write in the dark oh yeah it's not that much of a trick and it was a familiar thing for me to wake up and with something would be on my mind and I'd try and write it down or enough of it it wouldn't be a whole line it would be just a couple of words I knew that if I turned the light on that that line would disappear and we've all had that experience of surely of like apparently being in a story or hearing music in a dream, and then you wake up and you think you've got it in your head, but if you're a musician and you go to the instrument almost instantly, you can't gather it.

34:31I've had that happen lots of times. And you've lost it? Yeah, just a melody would come to me in a dream, and I'd go, oh, that's a great tune, and I'd wake up and I'd go to a piano or go to a guitar. By the time you got the guitar out of the case, you've forgotten it, you know? And I guess if you can't gather it, then maybe it only had its reality in a dream, like a lot of things in a dream are illogical. But that's how Angels Want to Wear My Red Shoes came. That's kind of like a visitation. That's a thing that's happened a number of times, and I don't want to make anything that mystical about it, but it came to me on the back end of a train journey from London to Liverpool.

35:07And I remember the image coming into my head as we pulled out of Ron Corn Station and went over the bridge across the Mersey and into the city. And by the time I got to Lime Street, I had the whole song in some sort of embryonic form and then had, of course, no tape recorder, no voice memo device in those days, just a notebook. I'd scribbled a few lines down in and a tune going around in my head and I usually got the bus to my mother's. I didn't have a lot of money. On this occasion, I ran to the cab rink and got in a cab and said, take me to my mother's address. And I tried to sing the song in my head all the time.

35:49so that I wouldn't lose it. And then got to the house and barely said hello to her and ran upstairs. You know, my old guitar was still sitting on top of the wardrobe and I played it and played it. She must have wondered where I'd gone because I must have been gone an hour playing it until it was imprinted on my memory. So I play it and I probably changed it a little bit, you know. And even within this box set, there's the structure of the song. The rhythm wasn't set originally. The lyric and most of the narrative was there. But before we were putting this box together, a friend of mine wrote to me after a long time of not being in touch and said, I found a tape that you recorded at my house in 1976.

36:27And I must have just been playing through my new songs. And there's a version of The Angels and When I Wear My Red Shoes. And the rhythm of it is like Wooly Bully by Sam the Shaman, the Pharaohs. I hadn't found what I later sort of felt was like the birds kind of spacing. The song was set to a totally different motive originally. What were the other influences on your lyric writing? Your lyric writing is so strong, so unique. What were you reading at the time? I was reading pulp fiction, a lot of it. You know, like, that's what's in watching the detectives. I read a lot of Graham Greeman as a teenager.

37:09He was somebody that I think became his impact on stories and the kind of outlook and the moral point of view is in some later songs, but I wouldn't say he's evident in these songs. But I didn't really have any pretensions to any literary sort of elevation. It's very notable that my first five records don't have printed lyrics because I honestly believed at that time, and I've since revised it, that they had to be heard or understood all at once with the music. And I kind of thought it a little bit redolent of the things I didn't respond to about Californian music that I had loved. There was a sort of a slightly precious sort of now my art, you know, and I didn't think that's what we were doing, particularly not that year.

38:02I had wondered if your interest sort of in gangsters and the underworld came a little bit from your father's occupation because he must have known some characters. He would talk sometimes about somebody called Sid the Thief or something like that. There were characters in the dance hall he would sometimes tell me or tell that he would be... My parents spoke to him when I was quite young, but he would come for supper or come for a Sunday lunch, and he would gale us with various stories about different colorful people. And I got to kind of, like, hang out with him. Sometimes when I was a young teenager, I'd go to a lock-in with him on a Sunday afternoon in a pub that was run by his former singing partner and hear him and his friend, who was the guy who wrote Hard Day's Night, Alan Owen, who was a, you know, would-be Brendan B.M.

38:50kind of character. And they would talk very expansively about colourful people. And I probably, in my mind, I've embroidered it a little bit to seem like we were in a Damon Runyon book, but it wasn't really like that. It was just some people kind of having a drink, you know. And I'm sitting there with my shamby in the corner, like, wondering about the adults, you know. Do you remember writing particular lines? I'm thinking of, she's filing her nails while they're dragging the lake, which I think would make any pulp writer pretty proud. I wish I could say I did. I remember the speed with which I wrote that song might have overwhelmed that, because I wrote it in one sitting.

39:25So, you know, I don't think I had time to stand back and admire my own work, if I even had that impulse to do that. um i have ever had occasion in going back to assemble this uh set of when we went back to the notebooks that i kept that you mentioned before of course one of the things that one of the reasons that second disc in the set is called the blueprint is because it quite literally is the blueprint in some cases where i had whole you know couplets whole stanzas whole entire lyrics that I kept and I discarded the music thinking that the songs didn't speak up for themselves enough in the musical setting and found entirely different musical settings.

40:11So Leave a Man, the lyrics of Leave a Man become Accidents Will Happen, the words of I Can't Turn It Off become Watch A Step, Citizen Junction becomes King Horse. And those are very different music. They're not even remotely the same. uh are the words always written with music in mind or no they all exist in music and are on this record in the original graphs and there are in the notebooks some titles and even some whole lyrics that i don't have music for there's one called sad holiday that has lyrics that ended up in lipstick vogue but i have no memory of what the original tune was of that first iteration it's only the ones that I thought well enough to demo when I was given the opportunity and I didn't own a tape recorder of any consequence so I used to borrow one, Rivox, to record my...

41:04I only made a couple of these bedroom demos and then I had the opportunity to go and record in Dave Robinson's studio, Open Anchor and the other things that are in this set are literal demos that were recorded at Pathway Studios between my first recording session with Nick Lowe and John McPhee for Mystery Dance and the beginning of working with Clover as a band. And I cut six songs in one take, which were most of my Am Is True, because I wanted to kill this idea that Stiff had at that time, that they were going to put me on one side of the record and Eric on the other. Kind of like two, what's it called?

41:50Two guitars, two fabulous guitars. There's a record with Chuck Perry and Bo Diddley. That's one side each, you know? And I remember there was like lots of ideas came through in those early days. Because I was still working in an office. I'd go to Stiff and they'd say, we've got this great idea. We're going to put you on a awful record. And that's not going to happen. I was not good at speaking up for myself, but I just had to illustrate it. And once they heard the other songs, It just made a nonsense of it. Were you very competitive as a songwriter, as a performer? You were surrounded by some great talent.

42:25I mean, Ian Rurie is... It wasn't that... Ian, I really loved. We toured the first sort of theater tour that we ever did was on a package tour with Nick Lowe and Rekles Arrok and him. And there was a degree of competition because the original idea of the tour was very democratic and there was a rotating bill, which meant that, you know, after about three nights or one, really after one time around the circle, the first four shows, it became really obvious that the other two acts could not follow either us or the blockheads. They just couldn't. It just didn't work. That's show business. And I probably knew that as well as anybody that was on that tour because I'd watched show business at work with my father.

43:11I thought, just in showcraft, this doesn't work. Nothing against the quality of the individual songs. Ian's so dramatic. He really should have closed every night. He had the command as a performer. I was still learning it. But, you know, you couldn't say one was a better band, but we could both really play. Both bands could play. The other three, anyway, not me, but the other three could play. The Blockheads were a great group. So, of course, it was a bit competitive, but only in a sense of it. I'm sure all package tours, you know, are. I mean, Joyce Moore told me once that, you know, Sam, he loved Wilson Pickett, but it was always difficult to play on the bill with him because if you played before him, he'd be angry with you that you were headlining.

43:57And if you went on before him, he'd accuse you of trying to stage himself. I don't know how true that is, but it rings true, doesn't it? You know, because musicians can be competitive.

44:11Justin Richmond:It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Niall Rogers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point. That moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.

44:46Justin Richmond:Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Jacob Goldstein from Business History. Imagine Henry Ford trying to create the assembly line. He had factory plans, production schedules, supply information, research, and ideas coming from all directions. His team spent years studying how to make the process work. Now, imagine having ChatGPT work. ChatGPT work can help with big projects that have lots of steps. You give it the goal along with real information like notes, files, reports, feedback, and project plans.

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45:47Justin Richmond:You do. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting Work Mode. Available on Plus and Pro plans. Songwriting is all about craft and finding the right creative headspace. The G2 Boost Collection from Pilot is designed to support that process. Grounded in color science, these premium G2 gel pens come in curated packs that help fuel different mindsets. Green for balance, blue for productivity, purple for creativity, and pink for optimism. Choose the G2 Boost Collection that matches the creative moment and let the ideas flow. In the liner notes, there's a lovely quote from Roseanne Cash, who talks about this album coming out.

46:33And she says that, you know, when she heard My Aim is True, she realized she had to up her game. And that a song like Seven Year Ake wouldn't have been written. That was a big compliment that she paid me. I mean, she's such a terrific lyricist. But everybody has to learn. and if you think about the comparative shadows of her fathers, she lived in the much bigger shadow, not because she wrote anything like Johnny, but because people wanted her to be her father's daughter initially and for her to stay around, she was living in California, and for her to have such a singular but separate voice and in more recent years to have managed to kind of actually acknowledge the gifts that both her parents gave her in her musical understanding is something I can really relate to.

47:28That's probably one of the areas that why we're friends because we can understand that really well. I wanted to ask you about writing Stranger in the House and Just a Memory. They're such perfect songs for those artists, for Dusty Springfield and for George Jones. Did you have them in mind when you wrote those songs? George's records were hard to get in England. I learned about George Jones and Mel Haggard, and even to a degree Johnny Cash, whose most of his hit records were novelty records, like Boy Named Sue or One Piece at a Time. Most of the ones that I was aware of. I knew about Hank Williams for some reason.

48:08I kind of got into Hank Williams. But then I started to trace forward, and I found that. So I just had lots of different people's styles. It was the simplicity, simple chords, and the structure of the song paying off to a refrain and the pace and the rhythm. Billy Sherrill told me he knew it wasn't a Nashville demo because it had an electric rhythm guitar on it and that's how he knew it wasn't recorded in Nashville. They never would have let anybody play the rhythm part on an electric. I couldn't afford a thousand strings. But it was styled in that weeper style, you know, that by then had absorbed quite a lot of George Johns.

48:49And Graham as well, I would say Grant Parsons, was also probably in there. Because I figured if the Rolling Stones could record Wild Horses, then somebody could record Strange in the House, you know, just as easily. You know, I felt lucky to do that. I think the thing about the song, it's related to Alison, in a way, in the lyrical sense, in that it has this sense of dread about what may happen in a deep love. that maybe you're not wired to be constant. And I suppose when I think about it, it was a kind of horrible realization. I think it was perhaps more true to life. I think I was role-playing when I wrote the song, and then the song came true.

49:31And that's true of both of those songs. Is that true of a lot of your music? Thankfully, no. You asked about the other one, Losing You. There is a song called Losing You. on the blueprint, which is a completely different song, except for the chorus, which is the same words as the later ballad. And I dispense with all the more arcane, and I have to say, Asprey Park-ish kind of imagery of the original draft, which was my attempt to write like greetings from Asprey Park. That was shameless, I felt. I thought it was obvious, but you might not think that when you hear it, but I was definitely trying to do that.

50:14and pays off to this pretty pure chorus, pure pop chorus. So when I had time to think about it, I thought those sentiments needed more longing and I came up with the ballad melody which we recorded in 1980 and that was totally dusty in my head because she already had a song called Losing You so I changed the title to just a memory and then my dream came true. She did actually pick it up without my bidding and the next thing I had a call while we were recording Imperial Bedroom would I take a call from her and the call came through while we were in a session and she said I love this song the producers played me this demo but it's too short it was only one minute and thirty seconds or something the demo or one minute and forty can you write another verse but nothing too lovey-dovey.

51:14That's what she actually said. And my heart broke, you know. Of course. And I did have wrote another verse for her. So, you know, that's only happened a few times. It happened with her and it happened with Chet Baker that I dreamt the song and then the person it was intended for actually recorded it. That was almost blue. So that brings us to Alison, about which much has been written. What interests me, particularly when you listen through on the album, is it's much more adventurous harmonically than the songs that precede it. Well, it was written in the Informed by Tom Bell. Oh. Yeah, because I'd heard Ghetto Child by the spinners, what you call the spinners, what we call the Detroit spinners, because there was a spinners group in England, so they had to adopt Detroit spinners.

52:07and that record with it sort of halting life ain't so easy in your that phrase that's Alison that's where it comes from you can hear that right that's where the rhythm comes from that's where the rhythm comes from but also you're using borrowed chords it starts on a suspended chord it's much different than the things well that's Mark Taplin that's listening to Mark Taplin that's just I mean McPhee on the introduction is playing something different, but the suspended chord, the suspended five chord, is, you know, that's something you hear in Tracks of My Tears and things like that. I knew those songs.

52:51And specifically, that's the way Marv Taplin played. I was nowhere near as capable guitar player as he was. But those little things where you sort of hear something that makes you thrilled, and you try to find a thing that satisfies you to the same degree. I do want to ask you a little more about Alison. Yes. I think it was the only song I looked up on, you know, Wikipedia. Yes. To see what other people thought. That'll make that. There you'll find the truth. Yeah, well, that's why I went there. Which is, you know, some people argue it's a murder ballad. No, it's not a murder ballad. Neither is watching The Detectives.

53:32you know it's describing the things that somebody's watching on the television alison is the the sense that your nature may kill the love that you you cherish most you see i find alison that's exactly what it is i've always found it an incredibly tender song it is it's a love song but it's a but it's a love song with the with the possibility of failure written into it so it's a little bit like these lines you know somewhere a broom is sweeping up the broken pieces of yesterday's life somewhere a queen is weeping somewhere a king has no wife that's where i got it from that's hendrix i got two lessons from hendrix one was that song when cries mary and the other was the switching songs on live television they were the two things i learned from jimmy hendrix i never tried to play like him i actually truthfully love him most of all it's not to say you don't love him as a guitar player but i love him as a ballad singer because i can hear the curtis mayfield and everything in him you know and that's truthfully the two things that actually took directly from him is that's the conception of the lyrics of allison is is that song and not that song in its entirety just those couplets you add that to ghetto child and you've got like a pretty heady mix of cues i don't think you were influenced by this song but it reminds me of a song I think you talked about liking once, which is Paul Simon's Tenderness.

55:02Oh God. And the line there, of course, is but there's no tenderness beneath your honesty. And to me, that's exactly... Everything put together falls apart as well. What's happening, the balance of tenderness and honesty in Alison, I find it heartbreaking. Thank you. Well, it was intended to be. You just couldn't talk about these things out loud at that time. It was very difficult. People don't want to hear you say these things. I can say them now because it's 50 years ago and it doesn't matter anymore.

55:39But, of course, I had studied Paul Simon really, really hard. I mean, you know, when I first heard April Come She Will and things like that, I wanted to play like that. I tried to finger pick. I couldn't grow my fingernails. I didn't know that you put varnish on them. I kept breaking off. I had to take to, you know, then I got a little louder as a singer and then I realized I had to play with a pick. But when he got to that period, like from things like Peace Like a River and where he's obviously acknowledging all of these things that he, that it's kind of like his gumbo. It's like he's actually putting the people who his music he loved in the arrangements.

56:17That's one, so the towns and so forth. And Ted Innes is one of those songs. since and yeah it's it's more knowing and it's more mature than my songs but then he was more mature he was older than me when he wrote that song he wasn't the same age as i was when i wrote i was 21 or 22 maybe just 22 well i think you've got every reason to be proud of it thank you anyway thank you uh not as good as paul's songs though not not as good as you know anybody that's written American tune, you can't charge him. You just can't. Right. Or for that matter, the seven songs, which is a beautiful piece of music.

56:54This brings us to I'm not angry. I think the obvious question, because you were always described as the angry young man. Were you, in fact, angry at this point in your life? No, I think I was probably just frustrated at the weight. And it could have been as, isn't it said that, like, when the ship comes in, was written about being denied a hotel room. No, I didn't know that. I've read that story. I don't know whether it's true. It's repeated quite often. You know the song I'm talking about, the Bob Dylan song? That it was when he was on tour with John Baez and they didn't like the look of him because he was a bit scruffy and they wouldn't give him a room.

57:31And he wrote that whole song about that one barrier being put up. But of course the song means so much more. And I think quite a lot of the time I just found the language that I thought represented things I felt, but I'm not angry. How can I be angry if I'm the guy that wrote Arson? You can be both on different days, but that's about betrayal, that song. But the song, musically speaking, I think the song's a little bit of play acting as well. Again, in a sort of songwriter, certain thing, combination, I think, when people say, oh, this is very true to life, it's very autobiographical, and what's the word, confessional, hate that.

58:12you know for me the absence of craft is the thing that stops it from being enduring often now that's not true of everything there are some very raw unfiltered records that i really dearly love but they talk about johnny mitchell's like blue being confessional oh i don't know i don't know whether you're right about that listen to the craft listen to the songwriting technique that underpins it musically and lyrically and even if it was spontaneous composition it's composition at such a high level that it belies the idea that any old idea would have would have served the means you know and i suppose that's what i'm talking about i'm not trying to um retrospectively claw back the idea there was ever any frustration or anger but it was much more just not knowing who you are, what you are, what you need to be.

59:03That's expressed a lot in the This Is Model songs, particularly, which I sort of mention that in the notes for when we take these songs in a row with the attractions and the songs I'd just newly written with them in mind, obviously overwhelmed the Mime is True songs to a large degree. I'm not angry as it's Don't Fear the Reaper. You know, the gothic riff of it, the basic chord signals is illogical. and that's what I felt I love that Don't Fear the Reaper that time it was on the radio and I think I just sort of like oh I need a riff like that and of course I never told anybody that McPhee just did what he felt and it was perfect what he did was perfect I couldn't play like that I couldn't play that kind of lead guitar that he does and it gave it that kind of rock and roll feeling but then the chorus is quite musical I know you know I know what you're doing.

59:58I know where you've been. And that could be a pop song from any year. That's not a rock and roll melody, a rock and roll motif. You say it's about betrayal. And it seems to me a lot of your songs, not particularly that song, you were writing at a time, I think probably more so in England than here, when appearances, propriety, being a certain figure in public meant much more. And you are often writing about the conflict of that in people's private lives, their dark sides. Yeah, I don't know whether I was standing back and writing about them. It was just happening quickly. But like I say, the character to some degree was being formed and the character overtook me or took me over, whichever way around you want to say it.

1:00:50And in 77, there's a little clip that the fourth CD in this collection, Becoming the Attractions, it's a sort of documentary account of the band coming into existence, having these Miami's True songs to play initially. And then we have pop stardom of a minor kind. And I included even just a fragment of an interview. I love that interview. This woman could not have been kinder. she was genuinely curious as to whether i would survive the process of being in a pop group and she asked me straight out if i was i are you an angry songwriter and i answered the question quite literally because i had no guile when somebody just asked you directly whereas what you would usually get was somebody who would come with a complicated theory that you know a music journalist particularly come with a very complicated theory about what they had worked out and wanted you to agree with that, with your answer.

1:01:47So my response to that was sometimes to really exaggerate what I felt. So hence the revenge and guilt thing. I said that when I'd had about five Pernos. And I was just like, unguarded. Okay, you want to get here angry? Here it is. And the guy bought it and repeated it. And I mean, I know this guy's a very good writer. I mean, he was a very good writer. But I don't know that he knew that I was putting him on. I think he took it at face value. And even if he did know I was putting him on, everybody else thought it was at face value. And that became the calling card for those first few years until it didn't serve purposes.

1:02:24I also recognized that by saying something like, I'm not angry, which obviously doesn't sound like that on the record, it's about those circumstances, about holding back the most explosive part of your anger about the situation that's described in the betrayal that's described in the song. there's a degree of distance in that there's a degree of songwriting this is not to say it's not emotional but to say there's a degree of craft like I said the melody of the release is proof of that it isn't just raw unfiltered kind of raving so I think that I worked out quite quickly that there were two things that could keep people away from me one was seeming like you shouldn't ask me and the other was I'm going to drink a little bit here and I won't hear you and in that space I heard Wayne Shorter say this in an interview so I take Wayne's example he said when he drank brandy it created a zone around him in which he could do the creative work and I absolutely understand that idea that's not the reason to become a heroin addict or something but for a little while the gin kept people away from me they couldn't be where I was they couldn't call me in that zone Nobody.

1:03:42Well, the bad news is I'm a journalist with a theory. So get ready. Okay. Take some of that coconut water. Yes. What I was saying earlier about people's dark lives being revealed, you know, to me, it animates some of your best early work. Sunday's Best, Man Out of Time, even King of America. Yeah. I think there are a lot of examples. You said confessional, we live in a very different age now. We don't live in an age where people feel they have to hide their dark side. If anything, it's the first person. That's their calling card. Yeah, it's the first person. I would never last five minutes. I wouldn't have lasted the scrutiny of social media or anything if I'd started now with the way I felt.

1:04:31I mean, there are lines in the song that if you knew how I felt, it'd bury me alive. I'm not worried about you revealing anything. What I'm asking is, as a writer, is it harder to write now about people where there's not that binary or at least that... I never think about it because I don't know that I cast myself in the present tense in that sense. you know I have a lot of songs and I have a lot of songs which I don't serve and would serve me and if I have any time left it might be to address some of those even ahead of these songs interesting yeah that's the honest truth and I'm not saying that in a melodramatic way I'm not saying oh I'm about to leave I'm not planning on going anywhere but whether I even consider some of these things that they've been well considered and I'm very grateful for the attention.

1:05:30And of course, everybody that's skeptical about this set will immediately observe that these records have been reissued before. And they've been anthologized even to a degree, but never quite as encompassing as this set. I wanted to ask you one more question, which is that you mentioned your father in this set. You talk a lot about him in your wonderful book. You also talk about your mother who didn't play an instrument, but you said understood music in a very profound way. Much more. Do you remember when she first listened to this record, what she thought? You know, when she passed, I went and had to clear her house, and she had pristine copies of all those early records.

1:06:11She really followed what I was doing. My mother didn't play an instrument, didn't sing in public, but had a good musical sense. And why I know that is true, because she left school at 14 and was a record sales assistant. And she used to say, when she discovered she had some kind of ear, was when, before there were, of course, long, long before there were computers that were just record catalogs. And people would come in requesting songs. And she'd say, well, what's the name of the song? And I'd go, I don't know. Well, who's it by? I don't know. Well, how are you going to say, it goes like this, and they'd start singing some semblance of the melody.

1:06:48And she would sometimes recognize it and be able to point them in the direction of a recording or even the sheet music so they could play it for themselves. She became known as the guy who knew a bit about dance, band, and jazz. That's how my parents met, because my dad was a local trumpet player. And, you know, it sounds like a sentimental story, but it really just highlights the importance of the physical object of the record, certainly in my lifetime. She had friends who were more knowledgeable still, would put records in my way that, you know, much later on became the foundation of my ability She'd be able to hear orchestral themes as separate to song-like form, you know.

1:07:28And after my dad left, she was the one who raised me. She was at the last show I played in Liverpool before the emergency, and that was the last time I saw her because of the restrictions on travel and quarantine. Every time I'd go to visit her, they'd change the rules and it wouldn't be possible. So unfortunately, she passed in that time. I mean, she had lived a very difficult last few years after a stroke. So I know that music was a great solace to both my parents as they dealt with the respective issues. My mother a stroke, my father Parkinson's. Music penetrated and bore them up in that, for which I'm grateful.

1:08:11Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming in. It's been just wonderful. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. It's really, really very surprising in a lovely way. I'm glad. I do mean that sincerely. Thank you.

1:08:50Justin Richmond:Our theme music is by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.

1:08:59Justin Richmond:If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Niall Rogers. This new series follows Niall as he travels across the country, talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hit makers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, and Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed, and this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:09:47Justin Richmond:gel pens come in curated packs that help fuel different mindsets. Green for balance, blue for productivity, purple for creativity, and pink for optimism. Choose the G2 Boost collection that matches the creative moment and let the ideas flow. This is Malcolm Gladwell from Medal of Honor Stories of Courage. This episode is sponsored by Navy Federal Credit Union. They offer great rates and pre-approvals that are good for 90 days. Plus, you could even get$200 when you refinance your auto loans from another lender with Navy Federal Credit Union. Learn more at navyfederal.org slash autoloans. Navy Federal Credit Union.

1:10:27Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Credit and collateral subject to approval. Refinance loan must be at least$5 ,000 to be eligible for the$200. Terms and conditions apply. Visit navyfederal.org slash autoloans for details. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.