FKA twigs

14:14Justin Richmond:it's like really smooth it's like a music video it looks like a music video it looks so good little

14:18FKA twigs:x like you know yeah and you do like a move and the camera shakes and stuff like i'm not saying it's bad i think it's good if anything like i genuinely do think it's good it's just like i'm so like in my era of being like a mover i'm so past thinking about that like i'm literally at a point in my movement development where I'm like body mobility and safety when movement is very important to me so I'm very much kind of like how do I keep spine mobility into my 40s and and how do I do like hip opening exercises and how do I safely go onto the floor and how do I keep my flexibility and the movements I'm doing like even on the pole I'm really thinking about like oh when I did that back movement I feel like I'm moving too much in my lumbar spine like how do I find extra movement in my like upper upper shoulders to to support the flexibility that I have in my middle back which I don't want to rely on so that I can keep on doing this for 10 years and like I'm so in another part of my journey as a mover to donate my time to doing tiktok dances which is fine that is fucking so cool actually but i just like can't do it and i can't do that and do that i have to do my hip opening exercises more than i have to do it

15:43Justin Richmond:that'd be a great tiktok page though probably because i look i'm trying to do the same thing like i'm like i was just telling my guy ben here i'm like i haven't run in 14 months not because i don't love to run but because i keep fucking my my hip up or my ankle like that's something for

15:57FKA twigs:another period of life like not running yeah but i have no other way to get like my fucking walking uphill on a treadmill yes i'm telling you it doesn't really it doesn't it's quite meditative yeah it's good like if you've got like knee hip issues it's like walking uphill on a treadmill 40 minutes put on a podcast put on this podcast yeah on this podcast

16:21Justin Richmond:i'm glad you're talking about this i was starting to feel old

16:24FKA twigs:no it's not old it's like fucking amazing no you're right you're right i feel so young i'm

16:29Justin Richmond:getting younger in many ways i feel younger than i've ever felt younger but that's what don't say that don't say that that is true i thought really i was you know because when i was young i used to think i was old like i really thought of me too i have a friend i tell her all the time like she's like now like doing really great in music but i remember in college like we're graduating college and she bought a fucking keyboard and i remember looking at her being like the fuck are you doing like we're past this we gotta go figure life out yeah and now and then like now she's killing it and i'm like how dumb was i like i felt like we were i thought we were like middle-aged at that point you know but you know did you you had that same yeah i had that same thing too yeah 100 how did you get past that to actually then applying yourself to create and make things and and have a go at a career and like i mean i speak about it i'm trying to meet

17:19FKA twigs:this cross-section where i look young feel young like i'm within youth culture which which i still am and like i'm becoming more wise and i'm learning my lessons and i'm like not a fucking idiot anymore and if i can like hit that cross-section where i'm like sexy and fresh and i'm not an idiot yeah you know and i can feel it coming i'm literally like i'm like come on And then when I hit that cross section, you know, like I'm, it's like, it's not that I feel old or young. For me, it's about like learning my lessons in life, not repeating patterns, developing as a friend, an artist, a daughter, a girlfriend, whatever it is I need to do in my personal life and my mind and keeping my relationship with myself healthy, which is obviously in this industry very hard to do.

18:07FKA twigs:if I can do that and still be having new ideas as a artist still be affecting culture still be you know I like leading ideas ways of making music ways of moving yeah like I I don't mind being like the first at things and people not quite understanding it straight away like I'm really okay with that that makes me very excited to kind of be a part of like even sometimes just a droplet of inventing a new sound or a new moment in an era or a decade I feel so lucky I mean with you sexual I feel so lucky because I feel that it's like made its mark in this era of time and so to be able have to have done that in like 2012 and then to be able to be a part of the conversation again in 2026 is like incredible, you know?

19:04FKA twigs:So then it's not about age, then it's about development as a person and as an artist and it's about growth.

19:11Justin Richmond:Yeah.

19:12FKA twigs:Yeah.

19:13Justin Richmond:Yeah. We'll be back with more from FKA Twigs after the break. On June 11th, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing. Hey, if they'll kill a cop and bury them, what are they going to do to me? What really happened to the missing deputy? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert.

19:41FKA twigs:Listen to Valley of Shadows wherever you get your podcasts.

19:50Justin Richmond:you know listening to your your discography makes me think of certain people i didn't really connect the dots but those people probably are people who perhaps had similar approaches you know like a like prince you know when you think about how he was he was never quite chasing he's never chasing youth culture chasing being cool he just he was just off doing his fucking thing and you caught up or you didn't or you moved along and madonna same thing like i don't think you know i don't want to speak for these people or speak for you but it seems like they had similar modes of creating and relating to themselves as people and creative people created probably probably gay the same you know um i know you have his daughter on on your sexual which is super cool

20:33FKA twigs:yeah that's the best i think that the differences is back in the day artists had a lot of time to develop like even when you look at prince like he had a few records that he released or bowie there were there were records that were released that only became popular after they blew up yeah you know and and i think i'm probably gonna get this so wrong but i think like bowie did let's dance and i think he was like maybe 40 or like i think he was 81 82 yeah i think he was like in his 40s and he just let's dance and that was like a huge hit for him and i think that was such like a breakthrough moment for him as an artist to like enter into like the living rooms of like many nations and and that was completely normal then i think even like elton john had released like a few records that you know his fans like but then he later on like he then started having like the big hits and there's just just this time that artists back in the day no it's crazy too because

21:30Justin Richmond:i mean like there was like a bunch of records too that we love now that i mean like diamond dogs commercially and critically

21:36FKA twigs:young Americans, no one gave a fuck

21:39Justin Richmond:critically.

21:40FKA twigs:Exactly. Exactly, but then you discover them after they have their big hit or whatever and you can go back and you can see this breadth of work and that's the artist back in the day had that time to develop so for me, I still feel like a new artist because I've still not had my Let's Dance yet. I've still not had that moment yet.

22:01Justin Richmond:This feels like a Let's Dance That's in a way. No. No?

22:05FKA twigs:No.

22:06Justin Richmond:Okay. What would make it feel like that moment is?

22:11FKA twigs:For artists like myself that tend to either be very off-center of the curve or sometimes too ahead of the curve, it's a kind of magical, universal gift that's slightly out of your hands, that culture and what you're doing hit at the same time and you can't really control it you know you can't actually like quite control that like the cultural consciousness and narrative needs exactly what you're doing at that time and and then that's the moment right like i've actually not had that moment i'm either like way off to the left or or like i'm almost a bit too ahead of it sometimes with sounds or with ideas and that's so fine like honestly i love my career so much like if this is what it is for me like i'm so blessed i'm so happy but bowie or bowie

23:08Justin Richmond:what do you say bowie i say bowie but just but i think in the uk it's bowie which is

23:12FKA twigs:unless you have it i'm not gonna okay i'm not gonna do tomato okay so bowie like you know he had that moment with less dance or bjork had um like it's oh so quiet yeah um and it's not the what is that is that oh so quiet the bjork song is that what it's actually called or is it i'm really bad with song is but that's the it's okay also quiet's in the title right yeah yeah okay so oh so quiet for for bjork it's not that that song is like better or worse than any of the rest of her songs before that it's that at that point with that video that i think spike jones directed that is what culture needed to put her on the world stage and when i was a kid that was actually the first time i'd heard of bjork you know because i was i think i was i was a kid i can't remember i think i was like in my early teens maybe when that came out or when i became aware of it but then that was the entry point to something way way way way way deeper yeah um but she just had that more like global moment um because that's just what culture needed and that's what it latched on to but no it's amazing though too like that because there are some artists

24:23Justin Richmond:who um have that moment that you're talking about and then and then chase it or that's what now they think they need to to to do and then there are people like bjork like bowie who have it and it's great and just keep on their path you know yeah yeah stay weird you know yeah yeah um maybe neil young's the same right like had a lot ton of misses and then early 90s has uh harvest moon or whatever you know and that's like you know what he's now he's he's again in his 40s or 50s even like that's probably the song he's most known for at this point yeah um yeah exactly quincey jones has that thriller in his 50s you know what i'm saying exactly but it takes that

25:04FKA twigs:long like it's just about learning your craft and i've learned so much and i've had to have weird moments in my musical journey that I feel kind of like were like off kilter for me but those weird moments have made the moments that have worked possible because I've learned how to structure a song or I've learned how to EQ a drum or I've learned about a rhythm that I hadn't done before and sometimes it's just about a few tries you know sometimes you try a song and you think that doesn't quite work but you release it because you know you release it you think okay and then you actually like almost do that song again but better like two or three years later it's like the same song it's the same dna of the song and you do it later and then that's the one that works it's so strange how that works but you had to have the kind of not so good version before for the next one to

25:55Justin Richmond:kind of hit is there an example of that that stands out to you i think like as a project

26:01FKA twigs:capri songs i mean it was never like um album it's like a mixtape i didn't realize it was a

26:07Justin Richmond:mixtape until yeah it's a mixtape till this week i didn't i thought that was an album no no it's a

26:11FKA twigs:mixtape i mean i made it quick it's like with afterglow for me as well like these are projects that i make quite quickly and in a different way to how i make like my record records um but but there's a lot of like experimentation um but capri songs kind of like taught me how to write better songs even though that there's not necessarily like even well-written songs particularly on cat brief songs it's just but it's just like a bit hookier like it's just it's just like this cat brief songs it's like there's more hooks on it they might not be in the right order like the hooks probably aren't in the right order for like an amazing pop song but i just learned like oh i found my way to repeat a melody and do it in my way because in my usual songwriting i don't give a fuck i'll do a different melody for the verse the pre and the chorus won't it'll only happen once because why not you know but yeah you know i mean like sometimes i'm like whatever it doesn't matter but but with capri songs i learn about structure i learn about like minimalism within sounds that maybe are like more palatable to audiences and for me it's like testing what i'm okay with because sometimes when something's too like palatable or normal i'm like okay not for me like i've lost my place in this now like this is for someone else to do very well like I don't need to do that but Catbury songs at the time was about me because I'd just come off Magdalene which was an amazing which was like you know kind of psychedelic but but then Catbury songs I'm like testing like am I comfortable with a drum that doesn't change throughout a whole song I don't know I've not done that before my drums change all the time so am I comfortable with a rhythm that stays the same am I comfortable with a repeating bass line and I have to like test it and I think, yeah, I can do that.

27:51FKA twigs:Yeah, I can do that rhythm. I can do a structure that is like verse, pre-chorus, verse, pre-chorus. Like, I'm okay with that. But it's not, it's like an experiment. And Catbury songs was also an ode to my culture and the music I was brought up on. Like, not at home so much, but with my friends. Like, a bit of R &B, bashment, dancehall, like more like i guess like black rhythms you know because i'm biracial so i'm just like in a constant like fucking crisis you know do you know what i mean about like is your mom white or your dad my mom is spanish and white and my dad is jamaican but i was raised by a bayesian man so i'm even more confused because i have like different sides of like the caribbean coming at me that are very like opposing very competing yeah yeah yeah it's like i'm jamaican in my dna but

28:45Justin Richmond:But Jamaican, I mean, come on. Jamaican culture obviously reigns supreme. I'm just saying across all cultures, you know? Yeah, sick. It's great.

28:53FKA twigs:I feel it in my blood. It's great.

28:55Justin Richmond:No respect to your stepdad or anything. Yeah, yeah. Obviously, I'm just saying.

28:58FKA twigs:Yeah, but like, yeah, it's great. Like, I feel my, like, black blood in me. I feel it tangibly, like, inside me. And it's like, it's...

29:09Justin Richmond:The Spanish blood, that's kind of deep too, though. I mean... It is. You know, you think about the Moorish influence and all that you know running through that music and that's like it's not something i haven't delved into as much as i i you know want to in the future but you know what i what i mean what i when i listen to that stuff it's like incredible yeah it is yeah it is there's lots

29:28FKA twigs:of stuff going on in there and yeah catbrew songs was like more of an ode to the rhythms that i think like that i first latched on to maybe as as a teenager going out i went to a lot of like bashment and dance hall clubs and stuff that was like my first experience of like going to like illegal like nightclubs and stuff like that was like dance hall clubs were those like

29:50Justin Richmond:cool places to be that time or just a place to be so i don't know what the the layout of london

29:55FKA twigs:sort of nightlife is well i'm from the country okay so i'm like a country girl and where i grew up uh was in a place called gloucestershire and there's lots of different pockets it's a really interesting place because I was born in a place called Cheltenham which is very white very very very white and it's very interesting because it's like in some ways when I was growing up there it is very affluent and it's known as a commuter's town so it's where like a lot of middle class people live that commute into London and it's very beautiful like there's a beautiful area called Montpellier which is like just beautiful buildings and everything is just so and on the other side of it there's a very um big like lower working class and working class community and it's a lot of like travelers and it's um very a lot of farmers there and on the other side of it you know like it it's very raw and it's very working class and my upbringing was kind of confusing because like my family's very working class and they're from birmingham like working class birmingham which anyone that's like from Birmingham or from England like knows exactly what that means but I think Birmingham's an amazing place it's often left out of the conversation a bit of the UK but I think it's a place that's very rich in culture and I think it's a place that's like there's like a really big Indian and Asian community there and a really big black community there Cheltenham is this one place but then Gloucester which is very close it's just like 15 minutes away and then bristol which is very close it's maybe like half an hour 45 minutes away is very rich in black culture and specifically caribbean culture and it's a lot of people that have come straight from the caribbean like have been there and then this is basically where like trip-hop like laid its roots so this is like where tricky's from porter's head uh this type of like music and music that um yeah it's like trip-hop but then also kind of a lot of dub as well and jungle really like laid its roots in these areas there was this bus that went from Cheltenham to Gloucester and for me at 14 this bus was like a fucking godsend because I went from this area where I was the only black

32:14Justin Richmond:person in my area other than like my stepdad yeah I could get this bus after school like 20 minutes

32:21FKA twigs:and I was around then something completely different people that were from like the island I'm from you know or half of me is from and and so when I first started going out like there was this club called the Jamaican club that was like an illegal kind of like I guess I don't know a lot of like rasters would go there and play dance hall bashment reggae and just like sit and hang and there would be food and you would just go and like smoke and chill and dance and and these are the the nightclubs that I first started like frequenting as a teenager anyway so when I made Cadbury songs it was kind of like an ode to that side of me and the idea of it coming out more as a mixtape than an album was that always the intention it was was to experiment and then

33:11Justin Richmond:release something that didn't feel as definitive as an album yeah because it's like not really

33:18FKA twigs:finished catfrey song it's not like exactly finished i would say it's like something that was like made but it's same with afterglow you know like afterglow is like not exactly finished

33:27Justin Richmond:i'm shocked that you so you said i don't even know if we were recording then but you said

33:32FKA twigs:you made that very quickly i made it in 12 weeks 12 weeks pretty much yeah bar like one or two

33:37Justin Richmond:songs i thought i just for some reason it sounds it really does sound like of a piece with to me it sounds like related enough that i thought maybe they were created at the same time you know

33:49FKA twigs:no i i made afterglow because i wanted to like have a strike so i could get off one of my record labels and i didn't want to be like totally because like i really like respected that label and i didn't want to be like totally disrespectful and give them trash because i know some artists do

34:08Justin Richmond:that they just think oh whatever there's another frank ocean yeah do you know what i mean i didn't

34:12FKA twigs:want to do that because i respect them and we've had a really good journey together but i have this one song that for me is like one of the most beautiful songs that i've written and i want it to come out this year and i need to i needed to own the masters to that song oh wow and in like my record label because i was on two record labels so on the one that i'm still on now i get my masters back which is um atlantic okay yeah so on that like in a time frame that i deem as acceptable i get those masters back and this one song on the record it's like you know for me it's it's like a cellophane it's not in sound but in how important it is to me and how important the lyrics are to me you know because when you're an artist and you don't own your masters it's like painting and giving away paintings and you never get them back but when you own your masters then And even if they live in a different gallery for a minute, you get to, you say, yeah, sure, you can put my work in your gallery for like 10 years.

35:12FKA twigs:That's fine. Right. But then in 10 years, I get to take that work and I get to hang it back in my living room. And it can just be in my little living room in Hackney. And I just get to hang it on the wall. And I get to say, like, that's my work. You know, that for me is like very important psychologically.

35:29Justin Richmond:And obviously, I mean, that's not on many people's radar when you're starting out.

35:34FKA twigs:I didn't even know what masters were. No one even told me what masters or copyright were. I was like, okay.

35:42Justin Richmond:Well, it's incredible you're getting them back then. You're in a situation where you're able to get to a point where...

35:48FKA twigs:Yeah, my new music now, I get them back. But I think that's the thing, going back to when I started making music, it's not anything bad about my old label. It's just that deals looked different then. And I signed a deal that had many records in it. and so now like it's more normal that artists like keep their masters or maybe even have like shorter record deals which means that you can make choices that you do a record and you decide if you want to stay together or you decide if it's time to move on and stuff like that but it's really you know i want to i'm always very careful i want to be like very respectful to the relationship i had with beggars and young because genuinely like i had a fab time it's a great label it's a great wonderful artists and exactly but it's just at a certain point like i I grew to a point where, you know, if I write a song like Cellophane, or if I write certain music that has changed my life, that's had like a visceral effect on my chemistry as an artist, and then I write that thing and it's sitting in front of me, and then I have to kind of like, you know, at a certain point after over a decade of making music, like it's stunting.

36:55FKA twigs:People don't really think about the psychological effect of contracts on artists.

36:59Justin Richmond:What's the new song called?

37:01FKA twigs:Bluebird.

37:02Justin Richmond:Bluebird. And do you know as you're writing it that it's that important? Is there a feeling to you or is it only after the fact and after you have a bit of distance? I think at the time. Yeah.

37:13FKA twigs:Yeah. And it might not mean anything to anyone else. I don't know. But to me, sometimes I write things and it's so about my life.

37:20Justin Richmond:So you knew where that was coming from as it was coming out. Yeah. And do you always know where things are coming from?

37:27FKA twigs:No. like sometimes I think I have moments of being like a really like special precious artist where I've done something and I feel like I'm so grateful that I was able to be a conduit for that moment and I feel really like wow I'm so grateful to be alive in this body and like I've just made that it almost makes me emotional and then sometimes I'm like having fun or sometimes it's just like yeah you know like just a little like flirtation and it's like not that deep you No, but I need both because that's my personality.

37:57Justin Richmond:I feel like that personality comes through in a lot of your music. When you're making Capri songs, you were trying to see if you could just stick with a drum loop that was like, that's it. Your songs expand and contract and move. They're just malleable in these really cool ways that not a lot of people make songs like that anymore. Not a lot of people make records that way. They feel that adventurous. from like we're within one song you've gone on a complete journey and then when you think about some of the lyrics of some of these songs too is like you can tell there's like there's a seriousness sometimes and and then there's a play like all those i feel like i that does come through i think

38:36FKA twigs:in your music thank you that's my personality i'm like either very very serious and very like intense or i'm just like a kid yeah i'm just so playful and it's like silly one last break and

38:51Justin Richmond:And we'll be back with FKA Twigs.

38:56Justin Richmond:I'm Jonathan Goldstein. And this spring, Heavyweight revisits some favorite episodes. Yeah, I think I want to know why she made my life so difficult. If she had some kind of thing against me. Plus, we check back in with our guests to see what's changed in the years since. How long has it been? Things have transpired. Yeah, the last 10 years. Everything's changed. New updates begin March 12th. Listen to Heavyweight wherever you get your podcasts.

39:49Justin Richmond:but it's coy and it's like it's and it's like who does that there's like there's so many

39:56FKA twigs:layers to that yeah exactly it's so fun it's so fun making fun of yourself on songs why why is that like what makes that so it feels like an in joke with yourself like i don't know like i'm even just thinking of like on sushi because i'm like like i can't drive yet i still can't drive so i'm like on this song like being like a boss saying like i'm gonna take it out to all these different places but like i can't drive yet so i'm gonna have to get my friend to come and pick up so we can go out like i don't know it's like it's only funny to me but it's just funny sometimes to just like make fun of yourself or sometimes reveal a really intimate secret that

40:36Justin Richmond:people might not pick up on it's funny you brought it because sushi was a song that made me think of ballad of dorothy parker because there are those moments of like it's like it's it's it's bold but It's also a little like, I said that and I'm going to pull it back. Even like, you know, like, oh, we could have. Yeah, I don't remember the line exactly. We're going to have sex. We could have sex, but we don't have to. Also, I'd like that. It's just like, well, what are we doing here? It's like, are we, aren't we? What's going on?

41:03FKA twigs:It's like, we're adults. We can do what we like.

41:05Justin Richmond:Yeah.

41:05FKA twigs:We can do what we want to do.

41:07Justin Richmond:Yeah. It's just a really funny framing for that. and it's just a framing you don't hear a lot in the contours of pop music, you know?

41:15FKA twigs:Yeah, it's fun. To be honest, it's funny that you bring up Prince because when I was writing that first part of Sushi, I actually thought about him when I was writing it. It was just about that playfulness and acknowledging the power play of being a star whilst also leaning into that you can still be so shy and vulnerable. It's like this double thing of like, I'm going to fucking fly you to Paris slash I can't drive, so my friend's going to get you actually from the airport. You know, it's kind of like this power play of knowing as a star you can do what you like, but also you're still so prohibited and essentially a kid moonlighting as an adult still, but in a fab outfit.

41:58FKA twigs:You've had full glam, but you still have no idea what you're doing.

42:01Justin Richmond:Sounds like that's a great life. That's it.

42:04FKA twigs:It's weird.

42:06Justin Richmond:um i read that raves were really important to this album yeah and i imagine raves in europe is particularly it was it was specifically it was prague i mean i'm not even going to a rave here to be honest so i i have no conception of what rave culture is like but what is it like what is it what's alluring about it to you and and how did that work its way into this album or

42:29FKA twigs:these couple of projects yeah i mean i've always been very scared of like a 4-4 beat you know even i think in the past like mocked it i mean i used to mock like trap hats you know i used to be like like i'd be like no i'm not doing that like you know especially on like lp1 era like the the hats are always like changing like even like bpm and i'd always just be like i don't want like a straight like trap like i don't want something that's really really straight and i used to say like that you know like I don't want like a four to the floor beat like I want this kind of like abstract landscape so the idea that I based a whole album off like techno which is like that's the premise of techno is like actually so humbling to me and it just shows kind of how your taste can change and yeah I didn't ever really think that techno music was for me and then I started to discover techno first of all in Prague and then second of all like in like queer spaces that that were more inviting for me and I found my way in I don't know maybe it's like being black like sometimes I felt like certain musics aren't certain types of music aren't for me I mean I literally did an interview earlier and I was speaking about this and maybe sometimes I felt that like i couldn't like listen to that because it's like not not like i'm not allowed to or like there's not an in for me in the scene because like i can't wear skinny jeans or something because my thighs are too big i don't know but like you know what i'm saying like it's just like that the preconceived notions of being like a teenager and thinking like i think i have to have like straight hair pushed to the side to be able i'm from like myspace era i have to like be able to like do that to like listen to like emo music i had a metal band in the myspace era so i'll get you so I think like naively I thought that techno wasn't for me and then I started to like do my research and obviously learned that you know dance music like has had so many incredible like black pioneers and the whole like Chicago scene and I remember like when I went to Prague and I had this sort of spiritual awakening in this club um and then I went back home and then I started to yeah research like house music and chicago and all these incredible djs and i just was like how should i not know about this i just i was like i didn't know but you know i didn't know and and then i started to dive deeper and deeper and i still even with dance music like on use sexual i don't and even on afterglow i feel like i've still not quite like invented this music or done this music that i feel in my head so it's really fun to keep on like trying it's like an iteration this is like first yeah yeah exactly it's like it's like now i can keep on playing with dance music and then recently i've been listening to a lot of acid house which is like how does that relate to like how's that different from the regular house it's i don't know i'm not very good with like like the technicalities of like genres but to me like acid house it feels more cunty there's more of like a stank to it it feels like like walking down a catwalk or it feels like something that's like i don't know i mean we were last night i was like doing like a fitting for a red carpet and then it was like acid house but then it was like a mood glare like fashion show and seeing how like the models like walked to it yeah and stuff and i was like i understand that like physically i understand that language and that was very inspiring but anyway yeah back to prague like i just had this massive epiphany of togetherness on a dance floor in in a different way that was very singular because going to bashment clubs in the early noughties is about or was about like winding it was about grinding it was about like um doing movements that were the same there were like you know like dance movements that you would do like together and you would like learn the dance movements and then you would get together on the dance floor and communally do them like the candy dance but in a different genre you do this part of that dance to this music techno is different because you're by yourself and it's actually maybe like unorthodox to like

46:38Justin Richmond:try and invite people you don't dance with other people no you do but it's like a very it's like

46:44FKA twigs:surfing there are rules okay in dance clubs like surfing you said yeah there's rules of waves in surfing like you don't like the way that surfers navigate the waves is very respectful you don't

46:59Justin Richmond:just go and like take that wave yeah right i don't just go to a beach i've never been before

47:02FKA twigs:like that's a big wave i'm going to take it it's like there's like an order of things that's like that the the more the better surfers might take that wave or you've had your turn and then you give someone else a thing and there's a respect to it that is the way the best dance clubs work where there's a respect to the way you would approach someone on the dance floor or you wouldn't because you see that they're in their like flow state or they're like you know like it's called like tunneling like you like tunnel to the music where you're just like in your like

47:35Justin Richmond:you just look tunnel you look like you're yeah you're just like you know because it's primal

47:40FKA twigs:you know like to do the same movement over and over again it's very primal and so sometimes you just have to like respect that people are like working out their own fucking like thing um but it's also very together but that's what room of fools was about like this room of fools we make something together it's like if you separate one of the dancers in the club they look crazy because they're like moving and it's not about looking good it's just about like moving and feeling something and it's quite like sporadic and it's full of ecstasy and it's very like primal and And it's very practical. You wouldn't wear heels to a rave.

48:16FKA twigs:Do you know what I mean? It's like you wouldn't wear something uncomfortable. It's about being comfortable. Got it. It's about the utilitarian nature of what it is to move together. And that's priority. It's almost kind of like comfort within your body to the beat. Wow. Whereas, yeah, you just wouldn't interject someone's moment. But at the same time, the whole crowd is moving together as one. So it's very beautiful. It's like you're like an amoeba and you're all selves and together you're like a very important community. When I go like raving, I think like this right now is quite possibly the most important moment in culture.

48:57FKA twigs:This rave right now with the drop, the way that the fucking DJ just brought in those hi-hats and the way that the crowd responded is quite possibly the most important thing that has ever happened in history in this room right now, but it's just like completely contained. That's amazing. It's like completely contained, but something will happen and everyone's just like, that is exactly what I wanted to happen in the music. And you just see the relief, the physical relief that that fucking hi-hat came in. You're just like, thank God, I've been waiting for seven minutes. I've been like listening to that 4-4 drum.

49:33FKA twigs:My body has been a slave to that drum for seven minutes and now a hi-hat has come in and this surely is heaven. Like this is surely the best thing that's ever happened in the whole world. But it's just like contained to this one room and no one knows about it. And the next morning, you can't even really explain it, you know? I probably sound mental.

49:53Justin Richmond:No, I'm ready to go tonight. It's Friday night. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? We've got to get the fuck out of here.

49:59FKA twigs:Yeah, I think he's nose. Anyone else? No?

50:02Justin Richmond:Nick? Ben?

50:04FKA twigs:Nick? Yeah, Nick knows.

50:06Justin Richmond:Fuck, I'm missing out.

50:07FKA twigs:Yeah, everyone knows. yeah but that these are there are spaces for everybody you know there's spaces for everybody and that's what i realized that this space is for me it's fucking wild but you in prog of all places this is where not really it's like east block i don't know like it's kind of a pioneer actually it's actually like a very important to dance music and like europe has like an incredible

50:35Justin Richmond:dance scene i'm ready i'm ready to go uh rave honestly it's really good it's very um it makes you like not really care can you be sober yeah yeah oh my god a hundred percent really i didn't

50:47FKA twigs:think so but then actually you can really yeah yeah you really can yeah i can totally go and be

50:52Justin Richmond:completely sober okay yeah i got too many responsibilities out there doing ecstasy yeah no no no you can totally out there doing ecstasy at a rave i don't know no you can totally

51:01FKA twigs:You can only go and be sober. Like it's amazing sober.

51:05Justin Richmond:I'm going to dip my toes in. I'm going to dip my toes in. Well, it was great speaking with you. This was like an incredible conversation. I went many places. I feel like I'm better for having had it. And I can't wait to hear, what was the new song called?

51:21FKA twigs:Bluebird.

51:22Justin Richmond:I can't wait to hear Bluebird.

51:23FKA twigs:Yeah.

51:24Justin Richmond:I can't wait to hear that.

51:25FKA twigs:Thank you.

51:26Justin Richmond:Great to meet you.

51:27FKA twigs:Nice to meet you. Great.

51:32Justin Richmond:In the episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist featuring our favorite songs from FKA Twigs, including her latest album, Usexual Afterglow. Be sure to check out youtube.com slash Broken Record Podcast to see all of our video interviews. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at The Broken Record Pod. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tallade. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Insurice. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

52:06Justin Richmond:Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richman.

52:29I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this spring, Heavyweight revisits some favorite episodes.

52:35Justin Richmond:Yeah, I think I want to know why she made my life so difficult, if she had some kind of thing against me. Plus, we check back in with our guests to see what's changed in the years since. How long has it been? Things have transpired. Yeah, the last 10 years, everything's changed. New updates begin March 12th. Listen to Heavyweight wherever you get your podcasts.

52:58FKA twigs:This is an iHeart Podcast.

53:00Justin Richmond:Guaranteed human.