Jason Isbell

27:12And 100 years later, exactly 100 years later. That's wild. Yeah, so history clearly repeats itself if you don't pay attention to it, and sometimes if you do. But yeah, I heard a lot of people talking about how like Molly's character, why did she stay around so long? Why did she stay with it? Why did she try to work it out for so long? And that's one that really bothered me because I think that shows a really huge lack of understanding of her perspective, you know, and the circumstances that had led her to that point in her life and what her options were. It's like, well, maybe if she didn't have to have a legal guardian to take her own money out of the bank, she wouldn't have been so motivated to stay with this asshole, you know.

28:00Yeah. But there was a lot of like real, you know, people who just weren't willing to take one extra step to think, Well, maybe that person's experience is a little bit different than mine. Well, yeah. And also just people who, you know, put themselves in a hypothetical situation. They know exactly. I mean, yeah. Armchair quarterbacks. Turns out it's complicated what we do. You know, it's not it's not simple. There are a lot of different variables that go into every choice that we make. And she wore those all on her face. You could see all of the complications. What do I do? Right. Her acting was just beautiful.

28:34Yeah, she's unbelievable, man. And that last scene with the two of them where all she really wanted him to do was tell her the truth. And he couldn't, even after all that, he couldn't, you know, she's basically just saying, do you love me more than your fear? You know, and he couldn't do it. And that was that. And yeah, Lily is really like nobody I've ever known. I mean, we stay in touch, you know, and I saw her when I played in Oklahoma a few weeks ago. And it's nuts because, you know, There have been some people like Chris Stapleton opened for us right before his thing just went nuts. And Casey Musgraves and Sturgill, there have been people that I've been around who were on a real pretty steep upward trajectory, but I've never seen it like with Lily right now.

29:23Cause she's just taken over the world all of a sudden. And I honestly don't think it's gonna change the person that she is. And that is like, that's rare, man. That's unicorn shit right there. It just seems like she keeps settling more into herself as all this beautiful chaos happens around her right now. And I think she's just going to use whatever sort of recognition she gets to do cool things for other people, which is really a gift to everybody. Well, it's great. I mean, it seems like she's in, not that I can be a judge of this, I don't act, but she seems like she's an actor in the mold of a real actor, like a De Niro or DiCaprio or Pacino or the people who it's a craft.

30:06It's not, I'm not into be famous. I'm not into be a movie star or celebrity. It's like, so what I do and it's just going to get better and better. Yeah, it's serious. And the work itself is the reward, you know, and that was something that surprised me about Leo because I mean, dude is very, very famous and he has been since he was a little kid. And that man works hard. He was out there all day, every day, first call, usually last to leave. It's 95 degrees, and we're all in tweed suits, and he's out there all day. And if he gets half an hour, he runs back to his trailer, takes a nap, and comes back out there and gets back to work.

30:45I was very impressed. It can't be the money that's motivating him at this point because you don't have enough time left to count it. Yeah, that's right. Well, I could talk to you about this film forever because it's so good, but we should talk about music and maybe we can listen to something real quick before we make a switch.

31:13Where the fuck did this come from, man? This is Kevin Kenny. We did this tribute to Kevin Kenny, the songwriter, one of my favorite people on earth. But the thing that Kevin does that I love so much is, like, he had a band Driving and Crying in the 80s and 90s, and they still tour, they still do stuff. But he's a folk songwriter, and he writes folk songs, but this band would play big old boneheaded rock riffs. And it was a combination that's so hard to pull off, but Kevin has pulled it off so well for so long. They had a pretty big hit with Straight to Hell. It was on college radio. I'm going straight to hell.

31:54That was their big one. But so many good songs where it's like, you know, the riff sounds like ACDC, but then what he's singing over the top is like Woody Guthrie. It's amazing. And when I first started touring solo, I was still with the Drive-By Truckers. Some of the first solo shows that I did were with Kevin. I was opening for it. He would go to the Goodwill and buy a lamp, and that would be his stage show. He would put the Goodwill lamp on stage and turn it on. That would be his light show, you know. And then after a few shows, after the end of the tour, he gave me the lamp. I was so honored.

32:25It's a horribly ugly lamp. Like I've never been with a woman that would allow it in the house. So there's a lamp in storage that I got from Kevin Kenny. But that was sort of a rite of passage for Southern folk songwriters, was if you got a lamp from Kevin Kenny, you know. That's amazing. You sound incredible on that. Yeah, thank you. I love singing rock songs. It's hard to write a rock song for me. I know for some people it works differently, but I do better with these introspective, quiet, sad sort of jams. And then when it's time to write a balls-out rock song, it's just too many options. I overthink it.

33:04So when I get a chance to sing one, I really enjoy it. Is it too many options in terms of the guitar playing or the songwriting? Lyrics, I think. That's what's hard for me. Because I'm not going to write a song where I'm like, what's the thin Lizzy line in Jailbreak where it says, hey, you good-looking female, come here. I can't write that down on a piece of paper and not mark it out. I'd be like, man, no, I can't let that slide. But I can't think of anything that would be more perfect from Phil Linut than that. It's a craft. It's really tough. And, of course, Bon Scott and Brian Johnson, they were really good at that kind of thing.

33:45A song like Big Balls. Yeah, it's so dumb, but I would not want it to be different at all. And I'd never get tired of it. It never gets boring. Thunderstruck, for Christ's sakes. Like, who's going to write that down as a songwriter and say, this is my song today? But if it had been different, it would have sucked, you know? So, yeah, that's a tough call to write a rock and roll song. It's really hard. Do you have riffs stored away somewhere? Oh, yeah. Like from failed rock and roll songs? Yeah, tons, tons. I haven't accepted that they're failed yet. One day, you know, it'll be when I'm 80, I'll put out the Bonehead ACDC sounding record.

34:22But why can't you do like the Kevin Kinney thing of like, just put like, you know, the lyrics you would normally write over the bombastic? I do sometimes. I do two or three songs on a record. I do that. But that's tough because, you know, at a certain point, it becomes lipstick on a pig. At a certain point, you're like, this doesn't sound right. The music is not going with the words that I'm hearing. And then you've made a production mistake. If I was singing the lyrics to Elephant over the music to You Shook Me All Night Long, people would be pissed. People would be like, man, this is terrible.

35:02You didn't take this seriously at all. So you've got to be careful. It's got to be congruous in some way. you know it's got to feel like one piece of work so to do it right you got to just walk that line where the lyric just barely scoots into dumb enough and the riff just barely scoots into smart enough to where they kind of line up but if you get too smart with the riff then you're making prog rock and if you get too dumb with the lyric then you're just writing an acdc song so you've got to like really skirt that line that's a great point you don't want to venture into prog rock Unless that's what you make, if you're good at that.

35:39But if you dip your toe in frog rock, that's going to be really bad because they take that shit real seriously. Super serious. Yeah. Tell me about Strawberry Woman, man. That line, this young man crying in a cowboy hat, he's got square boots, so he ain't for real. Yeah. Well, you know, there's a lot of argument over which sort of cowboy boots you should wear. My little brother wears square-toed boots. And I bought him a pair of pointier-toed boots for Christmas, so I'm hoping to move him over into that. but that's also kind of an inside joke about playing the pedal steel guitar because if you'll notice the pedals are so small and they're so close together that if you don't wear the right kind of shoes you'll accidentally hit more than one pedal at a time so this is why the pedal steel is a true cowboy instrument because cowboy boots are what you wear in order to be able to pull to hit just one pedal at a time fascinating so that's why the next line wouldn't last five minutes on a pedal steel.

36:36Right. Because he'd start hitting the wrong. I thought they were disconnected. It seems like it. But if you're a musician, you go, oh, I see what he means. Because a lot of steel players, if they don't wear cowboy boots, they'll play in their socks. Because you just got to be able to hit a very narrow pedal there and not hit the ones next to it. But also, I like this image of the naivete of having your heart broken. And a cowboy, like a real cowboy, is a very specific type of naive. Like they have chosen to spend their time around animals rather than around people. So they don't learn these worldly things.

37:14And then by the time they're old, they become wise before they become worldly, which is a really interesting combination. They make for very stubborn, very interesting old men. But when they're kids and they're still in the shape that you have to be to break horses and things like that, they're basically frozen. as 12 or 13-year-olds for a good long while because they just don't spend time around human people. They become wise before they become worldly. Yeah, so their wisdom comes from nature. It comes from work, and it comes from finding things out on their own. They don't get a whole lot of advice, cowboys.

37:51They find things out the hard way. Yeah. Cowboys never cease to be fertile songwriting territory. Yeah, for Willie Nelson or for Phil Lyon, they all write about him. Or Jason Isbell, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's just a really different type of person. And it doesn't necessarily have to be an American cowboy. You know, there's a bunch of them in Manitoba and Alberta and Spain, you know. And they got smaller horses in Spain, but it's the same basic principle. But yeah, it's interesting because it's like you're making this conscious decision to not participate in modern civilization. So there's a naivete and kind of an innocence about it that's really beautiful.

38:32But at the same time, on the rare occasion that they wander into town, hilarity ensues, you know. How did your brother take that line, by the way? Oh, he got a kick out of it. He got a big kick out of it. He is definitely more a cowboy. He's a real redneck, you know. Like somebody asked me the other day, like, what would you do in the apocalypse? I find my little brother. You know, we would go out in the woods and come back fatter than we were when we left, you know, because he could actually just wander off and survive just fine. He's one of the only people I know that could really do that. Man, you got to take him on tour with you then.

39:05I know. See, that's the opposite. Forget going to find him. Just keep him with you. You take him on tour and then you ruin it because that is not where he wants to be. You don't want to be in a tour bus in New York City. You know, he wants to be out in the woods somewhere. A cowboy on a tour bus in New York City would be. Yeah. I mean, it's happened. I guess that happened a lot early on. You know, George Strait had to get everywhere somehow, but I don't think he would enjoy it as much as I would. Speaking of George Strait, man, I was thinking about him recently. His music is phenomenal. Yeah. But he feels like, I don't know, I guess he feels now, oddly, like a part of the fabric of country now more than an artist.

39:45He really is like an elder of the music. I don't mean to put it that way or an insulting way. He's a legend. And he got it from not really writing his own songs. He was an interpreter of songs. which kind of like, to me, is the part of country music that relates to what like Sinatra was doing or some of the old jazz singers, you know, who weren't composers. And I think that there can be an art in writing songs. There can be art in delivering songs, interpreting songs as well, you know. And I think you don't have to be a songwriter to be an artist. But if you call yourself a songwriter or if you're not a great singer, then, you know, you're going to have to write some of your own songs for Step Things.

40:28up a little bit, but George Strait had such a wonderful quality to his voice and delivery of those songs. You know, sometimes it's not something you can learn. Sometimes it's just about where your voice sits and the resonance of your voice, especially in country music or, you know, show tunes. I mean, it's like Sinatra would just go in and start singing. You know, you better have the tape rolling because you might get one take because he knew that what people wanted was the quality of his voice. And I think it was that way with George Strait. Now you get to somebody like George Jones, and then that's a whole different thing.

41:05Because George Jones had that sort of country quality to his voice, but he could control it in a way that was just unbelievable. Every once in a while on Instagram or TikTok or something, a clip will come up of him just sitting around drinking a beer and singing a song. And it sounds like the best possible performance anybody I know could pull off on a stage at a football stadium, and it's just him sitting in a chair, smoking, drinking, you know, not even paying attention to what he's doing. George Jones really had a beautiful gift, but it doesn't take all that, you know. I think if you're good at delivering somebody else's words in a way that makes people believe it, and you have that natural quality to your voice that sits in just the right place, which is what George Strait had, I think you can get yourself into the fabric of country music that way.

41:56Is it weird now for your songs to sort of start becoming part of the songbook? It's all weird. Everything is so fucking weird to me. But I like hearing my songs out in the wild, even if other people are singing them. Now, stuff happened with Morgan that I wasn't a fan of after that. But at the time, when he covered the song, I thought, man, this is great. Bunch of young people are going to hear the song. And it gave me some reassurance that when you're being specific with these songs, that's when people really have a close connection to them because they think he knew a secret about me. How did this songwriter know this very specific, very detailed feeling that I was having?

42:41I thought I was alone. And to me, that's the best thing that art can do is when somebody says, I thought I was alone until I heard this. Now I know there's at least one other person out there that feels exactly the same way. I think to do that, you have to try not to be too vague. You can't really write with a target in mind, like a specific audience that you're trying to nail. You have to just make yourself the target and write the kind of music that speaks to a very detailed account of your own experience. And then you just wait. You just do your best job with it and you wait for somebody a thousand miles away to pop up and say, that exact same thing happened to me.

43:25And that's a really beautiful thing because then you're reminded of what we have in common rather than our differences. We're pausing for one last quick break and then we'll be back with Jason Isbell. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Oocla Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.

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47:14Your ability to not only to write so personally, but it seems like you have a commitment to living your life openly and honestly. You know, like similar to the way like Howard Stern, you know, let's say. Yeah, yeah. Like seems to have no qualms putting any of his follies on display for the world. Yeah, yeah. It seems like you have had no qualms doing that. And it's helpful for one, I think to other people, because just like a song that's so personal to you can be heard by somebody else and they can sense that they're not alone, feel that they're not alone, feel seen, feel heard by something that relates only to you.

47:55But now is not only personal, but it's like being a married person myself that went through the pandemic, watching your HBO film was like, Jesus fucking Christ. We weren't the only ones. Right, right. And that was tough, man. that was tough. And there are qualms because I sit back and think, why do I have to do this shit again? Why I got to tell everybody what's going on once again? But with the bigger risks come the bigger rewards as far as that goes. And there's a certain level of accountability. Like if I know that my thing is to be honest with people about how I live my life, that I'm going to try really hard to live my life the right way in a way that I'd be proud of.

48:35But also I sort of see it as most of the risks to me are negligible. I'm a person from a protected class, and I have been blessed with the encouragement and the gifts that I need to climb out of Trailer Park, Alabama, and get to a place where I'm really comfortable. And in that way, I kind of feel like I'm one of the people with the armor on. You know what I'm saying? And those people should go to the front of the line because they have the armor on. So if I can say something that somebody else would be afraid to say, you know, and then they can resonate with that, they're going to get more out of it because it's not necessarily possible for them to say, hey, hands up, here's what's going wrong with my life or here are the mistakes that I've made or here are the things that have been difficult for me.

49:25They might not be able to start that conversation, but they might be able to chime in if you start that conversation. Was there anyone like that for you growing up? That's a good question. You know, I felt like my grandfather was pretty good about being open and honest with everybody. And when I was a kid, he was a Pentecostal preacher in Alabama, and he didn't know how to write until he started preaching. My grandmother taught him how to write so he could write down his sermons and give them insurance. And, you know, he'd grown up share proper and basically got to the point where, you know, he could go to the grocery store and get what he wanted.

50:02And so the worst thing you could do would be send him to the grocery store because he would come back with all kinds of like old fashioned candy, you know. So when I was a kid, I was like, I want to go to the grocery store with him, you know, because it's all the stuff that he never had when he was a kid, couldn't afford when he was a kid. But he was a very honest person. And And I noticed that when there was a deal, when he was buying a car or trading a guitar or trading a horse or an animal or something, he usually got beat. Almost all the time, he would get beat in those deals. And at one point, I thought, man, this sucks.

50:38My granddad always gets beaten these days. But then after a while, I thought, you know what? That actually is what you want to be. You want to be the guy that is honest. Because when he would go in, he would say, well, this horse has had too much sweet feed. and it's foundered. So it's not worth much. But somebody else he was trading with would doctor things up and make it look really... And by the end of his life, I sort of figured out he didn't have any regrets really. And I thought that's because he'd been honest. You don't look back on your deathbed and say, I wish I'd gotten more for that truck.

51:12But you might look back and say, I feel bad for cheating so many people out of something. Yeah, because you don't know what you're cheating the other person out of. Yeah, you don't know how they came by their money. You don't know how they got that horse. You don't know. And you're not interested in it because you're just trying to get yours. And I was lucky enough to grow up around people who took that stuff seriously and realized that what might seem like a loss at the time, it was a win in the long run by being more honest. Yeah, that's interesting, man. At what point did you realize that that was actually an asset of your grandfather's?

51:47In my late teens, probably, when he was getting on in years and didn't have a whole lot of time left, I thought. Because I did that with all my grandparents, really, when they were close to the end of their life. I just kind of found myself not on purpose, but just sort of looking back and thinking, well, how would I feel if I was in that spot? Would I have enemies or regrets or people that I wanted to settle up with or apologize to? And he really didn't. He wasn't afraid. He was a religious man, faithful man, and he thought, well, this is going to be a relief. I'm going to go on to somewhere beautiful.

52:24He didn't have anybody to apologize to. He asked my dad at the end, he's like, you need any money? Before I go, you need any money? My dad was like, no, I got my own family and my own job, and I'm all right. But that's what he was thinking about still was taking care of other people. And I think that's a pretty good way to go out. It's a great way to go out. That seems like, you know, he knew the meaning of life. I think so. I think that's true. If you can leave with your tab all settled up, but it seems like that'll do. Do you think you need to live your life as honest as you do to be as honest in yourself?

53:00Like, in other words, can you, I'm thinking about like a Dylan maybe who, well, maybe he's a bad example. Because I don't know how honest he is in his life. No, yeah, he's not. I mean, I think he's honest in everything, but I don't think he's truthful. I think he's honestly lying about 90 % of the time. But that's what he's committed himself to. And it's like, if I wanted to be Bob Dylan, that's what I would do too. But I don't want to be Bob Dylan. I love Bob Dylan, but that's not what I want to be. I want to be me, you know. And my path, the way that I have found is most rewarding for me and gives me an individual voice is to reveal these things in an honest way.

53:38Also, I kind of like somewhere along the line, I committed myself to this idea of unraveling the bullshit and the mystery of all of it. This idea that you can be a rock and roll star and not behave like a terrible man, and you can be a songwriter and not have to mythologize everything. I think part of that came from when I was 13, 14, 14, a Pearl Jam hit. And I thought, man, these dudes are dressed like me. They look like me and they're not trying to dress it up. They just walk on stage and they play these songs and it's amazing. It's just as entertaining as David Bowie to me at the time. Not that there's more value in one way or the other, but it just made more sense for me as a person to just continue being who I was and then just take that on stage and keep doing it yeah you announced you're separating also from amanda how are you going to navigate that publicly in your songwriting life i don't know what do you think i should do i don't know help what do i do um yeah i think i'm just going to try to be honest you know all the ways that i legally can i mean there's certain things that we've agreed not to talk about but i think i can still manage to tell people who i am and what the truth is, from my perspective, you know, it's one of those things where not everything that ends was a failure.

55:07I think we did a lot of really beautiful things together, and I have really fond memories of all of that, and I don't regret any of it, you know, even the hard stuff. It's like when I got into recovery, you know, I wound up after a few years looking back and thinking I don't regret even the worst parts of that because it all kind of goes into making me who I am. And the time will come when the wounds aren't still fresh. The time will come when I'm able to take all this and put it into my work in a way that is honest and true but makes sense for me. I'm going to be patient. And in the meantime, I got plenty of other shit to write about.

55:48That's one thing I think a lot of songwriters miss is the inspiration. You don't need it, and you don't need it. It's everywhere. If you can't just look out your window and find 20 things to write a song about, then you're not a real serious songwriter yet because it's all over the place. Meaning you don't need to write about the thing that feels necessarily most pressing in your life. Right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You might not be ready for that right now. You might need to get there through other means, work yourself up to it. There might be steps. And then somewhere along the way, you could discover the beauty of allegory.

56:26I'm sure I have been writing about the things that are going on right now in my life for quite a while. I'm currently writing about those things. But on the page, it might look like I'm writing about a butterfly or a car accident. That's the beauty of allegory. You don't have to know what you're talking about all the time. You don't have to know what the overarching idea. Your brain will work on that level. If you just focus on details and rhyme and making something beautiful happen, eventually by the end of it, very often I look down and go, oh, I just wrote a song about my marriage or I just wrote a song about my child.

57:04This whole time I thought I was writing about football or something, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. I forgot to ask, you wrote Weather Veins on set of Killers of the Flatiron Moon, right? Yeah. Almost all of it. But yeah, a good chunk of that record I wrote on the set. Did the character you were playing influence your point of view as a songwriter at that moment? Or was it easy to keep that separate? I don't know that Bill influenced that. But I definitely know that the work that I was doing influenced it. Because on one hand, the most obvious way was just watching Marty conduct the whole orchestra.

57:44and the fact that he was open to hearing ideas from other people. When I went out there, I thought either he's going to be a micromanager and he's going to be in on every decision or he's just not going to be there that much. I did not expect him to have that kind of perfect mix of those things where he was active, he was on set every day, working out in the heat even at 80 years old. He would make the L's with his fingers and look at the shot and say, I want it to look like this. you know amazing amazing crazy it's like a movie about a movie about a movie but you know there was one night where it was just me in the scene and so it was marty and then the ad and all the crew and i had the pistols when they throw the dog on my front step the dead dog right before i get blown up and i walk out it's part of that montage and i walk out the front door and i see the dog and I've got my pistol in my hand.

58:40And, you know, I thought, man, I got to do this. So first I said, I think we need to load this pistol because, you know, the weight's going to need to look right. And if they see it from the end of the barrel for any reason, you're going to want to see slugs. And, you know, so the prop master did the thing where they had taken each shell casing, they had pried the lead out, and then they had swabbed the inside out, dropped one BB inside the shell, and then pressed the lead back in. then they would shake it. Every time they would load one end, they would shake it by my ear and I would have to verbally confirm I hear the BB and then they would put it into the pistol and shake it and put it into the pistol and just to make sure.

59:20So that's what like when that accidental shooting happened on the rust set, I was like, something's way off here because I could not have shot anybody if I had tried. But after that, I thought, you know, this is a single action pistol and BBing from Alabama, I used to have a pistol very similar to the one that I was holding in in a movie. And I thought, these Yankees don't know about single action. I'm gonna have to say something, you know. And if I walk out on my step, I see the dog. I'm not sure that it's dead yet. I don't know if the people are still in the yard. I'm cocking the pistol because with a single action, if you don't cock it, you can't fire it.

59:55That's why in the old Westerns, they would hold the trigger down and fan the hammer like this. Oh, yeah. Because it's the hammer that does the firing like with double action when you start to pull the the trigger the pressure causes the hammer to come back and then go forward but with single action you have to pull the hammer back first the trigger all that does is release it so the hammer goes forward so that means every time you fire you've got to cock and fire cock and fire and so i just tapped marty on the shoulder and i was like i think i would cock the pistol and marty said you think you'd cock it i was like yeah and i explained why and he said all right let's shoot it so they shot and it took another three or four hours, they shot the scene of me cocking the pistol.

1:00:34And then when I saw the movie, it was in the movie. It was the most satisfying click. But taking away from that, you know, I went in to produce weather vanes that I'd written mostly out there. And I thought, man, there's a way to do this where you can retain your vision and still hear what everybody around you has to say. And And you can let them enjoy participating and making the project a better thing. And still, this is your movie or this is your record. Because nobody had any question by the end of it who had directed that movie. That was really sort of inspiring for me. That's an incredible thing, yeah.

1:01:13Because making music can be such a singular, lonely, solitary thing. and making a film by necessity involves so many more people beyond the director or the writer or the auteur or the actor. There were hundreds of people, hundreds of people on that set. But he was listening to people, and it made for a better movie, and it was still Marty's movie, so that was a good thing to see. Was your band grateful? Oh, yeah, yeah. We had a great time. We had a blast because it was like, I would say, why don't you go mess with this for a while, see what you come up with. I said, man, there's nothing that a musician likes to hear more than that when you're in the studio.

1:01:51They're like, hell yeah, I'll go turn some knobs and push some buttons. I'm glad they had a great arc. I was so sad to see them in the movie. Yeah. I wanted to be on tour of reunions and just mowing the lawn. Like, damn, I want to get out there. I know, man. I don't know. They've had a fulfilling studio time and they can get out there with you now. Knock on wood. The quarantine is behind us. I hope so. Yeah. Yeah, same. Yeah. Hey, man, well, thanks for taking the time to chat, man. It's like, I wish I could. Thank you. I want to do a damn documentary on that movie. It's so good. A documentary on it.

1:02:20Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Good to talk to you, Justin. I appreciate your time.

1:02:46Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tallade. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music is by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.

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