John Leventhal

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32:21Our listeners get 10 % off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash broken. That's BetterHelp.com slash broken. We're back with more from Bruce Hedlum and John Leventhal. Tell me about the single for that album, Sonny Came Home. I can't believe that that was something the record company was, so yeah, the lead single. It's about a person burning their life down. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. It actually wasn't the first single. I mean, I think it was basically a fluke. I do. I think it just started getting traction at, I think it was like the very beginning of AAA radio. I don't know if you're a listener's, you know, what is that adult album?

33:07I can't even remember what AAA stands for. I have no idea. But you know what I'm talking about, right? I thought you meant the Automobile Association. I don't know. No, no. There's a longtime radio format that sort of came in the early 90s. Adult album alternative or something like that. I don't know. They started playing it, and then I guess Sony took a flyer. I mean, it doesn't happen. The record company has got to get involved, right? So I think they sort of stepped up and started promoting it at Top 40 Radio. And it clicked. Who knows why it clicked? I mean, was there sociologically something about, you know, people sort of see it as this kind of feminist statement?

33:52And I suppose it is. Or was it my little guitar hook? I don't know. Was that your guitar hook? Yeah. Oh, that's a great guitar hook. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I basically had that entire track before we even started. That was just an idea that I had. I had the whole track. And she heard it and wrote lyrics to it. She actually wrote two sets of lyrics. First one we sort of intuitively knew was not going to work. When she came in with those lyrics, did you know it? Did you go, yeah, that's it? The second lyric, then you came home? Yeah. I wasn't totally, if I'm totally honest, I wasn't totally sure.

34:27I thought it was pretty obscure. But she felt pretty good about it. She could be strong-willed, as I can. and uh and you know and i mean that's the other thing about a good collaboration is that you gotta you gotta have a leap of faith you know if you're if your collaborator is passionate about the thing they're bringing you gotta give it room to happen you know you can't always be saying no you know i wanted to ask you too about producing uh kind of a favorite of mine william bell oh how that That came about years, what, 35 years after his first big hit, which was You Don't Miss Your Water. Yeah.

35:04So tell me how that came about. Well, first of all, I'm happy to talk about it. If somebody really pressed me, and this would be to take nothing away from any other record I've ever made, but I think in some ways Williams' record is my personal favorite. Let's put it this way. it's the only record I've ever made where if I hear it it's like I'm not even thinking that I had anything to do with it it just sounds like a good soul record to me which I love I love soul music and I love I mean I listen to a lot of soul music particularly that subtle nexus of you know country soul that kind of earthy kind of soul thing um and you can make a case that William had the first record had you know sort of created country soul with you don't miss your water it you know uh how did it come about um uh it just kind of a fluke the a and r guy at stacks which at that time i think it still is is owned by concord which is now i think owned by universal um asked me if I'd be interested in doing it.

36:13And, uh, I got to tell you, it's one of the few times I've been normally, particularly as I've gone on, you know, I'm like, Oh, I might be interested. Well, you know, let me hear a bunch of stuff. And, you know, maybe the artist, you know, my basic rep is, Hey, the artist and I should get together for a day and we'll know whether there's, you know, something there. There's no point in getting locked up in a studio for six months with somebody if, until, you know, um, you can tell pretty quickly, or at least I can, but I knew right away. So I were like, yeah, I would love to do it. Yeah, the only slight strangeness was that they said, well, you know, they've collected a bunch of songs.

36:49I was like, okay, because the first thing I was thinking was, yeah, I want to write the songs. They sent me the songs and I really didn't like them. They were the thing that I intuitively knew in the first phone call that I shouldn't do, which were they were overt pastiches and regurgitations of cliches that you had heard way too many times. It's the thing that people do when they want to go back and make those records. They basically try to copy what was done. Now, it's understandable. It's all very seductive language, right? It's like, I love that language, and particularly of musicians and writers of a certain age, it has a deep, strong, nostalgic pull.

37:30But I knew that that wouldn't work, that there had to be it had to feel both modern and rooted in the 50s and 60s and the 70s in that lyrically it had to have some depth it had to come from i mean william at that time was like in his late 70s and uh it had to come from the stance of he's a guy in his late 70s singing songs as opposed to the lyrics that they sent me which were lyrics that he should have been singing at 29 or 30. So, but everybody was cool. I just said like, okay, I'm gonna try to write some songs and send William to New York. And William came to New York and we had a phenomenal day.

38:12I had started three songs and I'd started them with my buddy, Mark Cohn. If your viewers don't know who had that great record, Walking in Memphis, Mark and I are buddies and we've written songs together for Mark and for other people as well. I said, hey, let's try to start some songs. But I knew I couldn't finish the songs because William's a songwriter. So I wrote just enough. I said, hey, what do you think of this fragment of the song where he was interested in finishing it with me? And by the end of the day, I was like, we've got it. By the end of the first day, I had three really good songs.

38:49And I just said, this is it. It was a breeze. I love William. I still do talk to him all the time. he's what was were you sitting at a piano do you have guitars how did how did you write yeah so this is interesting so i built my own studio in 2015 and uh it's uh it's a small but very functional space and uh i have a very small console and by the console i have a telecaster and an acoustic guitar and percussion instruments and my bass um in the next room i have drum set and a B3 and a piano and a Wurlitzer. And William and I just sat next to each other and I have a great vocal mic, literally closer than you and I are right now.

39:30Bruce and I, I would say, are like 10 feet apart. William and I are probably like four feet apart. And we just keep it incredibly casual. And I'll just start playing something on a guitar and he'll sing and there's enough separation that I can get relatively good stuff. And then I would say like, oh, that's good. Let me throw some drums on this. I go play the drums and I put a bass on it. And like by the end of the day, I had this song called The Three of Me. And we both really liked that. I said, well, the only thing we need is horns. Let's just put horns on it and we'll get some background singers and we're done.

40:01So that's how, that's pretty much how that whole record went. And that was the first song on the record. That was the first song on the record. Right. Wow. I wanted to ask you too, I think it was just one song, but you produced Willie Nelson. I don't think I ever produced Willie. I played on one record. Oh, I thought he did a duet with Kimi Rhodes on a record you produced. Maybe I've got that wrong. That'll be sad if I can't remember that. I don't remember. Let's put it this way. If I did, he wasn't anywhere near the recording studio when I was there. Okay, it was one of those. He phoned it in.

40:36All right. No, no, I don't know. Oh, this is embarrassing. I don't know. I did play on a Willie record, which was interesting. What was that like? That was fascinating. that was also early 90s unbelievably great band um don was was producing it um you know it was very sweet of him to hire me he certainly didn't need me and they were doing it in new york and i was the only new york everybody else was from nashville or la killer band reggie young who's like really one of my heroes it's actually where i met reggie so i'm so thankful about that the Great Paul Franklin on pedal steel, Jim Keltner on drums, Mark O 'Connor on, you know, Mando and fiddle.

41:17I mean, it was a really Mickey Raphael. I mean, it was, and I'm even leaving out some people. It was great. And it was, most of the record, or most of the tracks I worked on were these duets. So it was pretty interesting. And my job was, so the whole band's there. So it's a big band, big setup, live. And each day a guest would come in, like one day would be Sinead O 'Connor, right? And I didn't know what we were doing. And Don would go like, okay, well, Sinead's here. I think they're going to do Don't Give Up by Peter Gabriel. John, do you want to go in the vocal booth with them and with your acoustic guitar and kind of work it out?

42:01now now it's not like going in there and working out like a harlan howard song like a three you know above and beyond like with three chords where you can kind of like work it out pretty quick you know i mean don't give up is a pretty deep intense musical experience it's some subtle chord movement and dynamics and it's like so i'm like okay so it was pretty wacky to go in the a vocal booth with those two guys and also there was this it was like literally a perfect cartoon version of it where if you open willie's the door you know the airlock door to the vocal booth it would be like smoke would come out it was great but it was a great experience i think paul came in one day uh speaking to paul simon he did an american tune another tune it's like oh my god i got to figure out an american tune so i was probably just nerve-wracked about just you know stay and keep my head above water but you must feel like your old sideman days which you just like play this you're like okay i was out of shape yeah now i remember on that record i was out of shape yeah i was that i was not prepared do you have to practice every day to keep in shape uh well i should have practiced today how are you doing this i play guitar all the time do i practice sometimes well when i when for me practicing is um learning something i don't know I don't sit there and play fiddle tunes or work out bits.

43:25I'll just try to learn something I don't know. Or I'll just noodle. I mean, honestly and truly, well over half of my songwriting is me noodling on piano or guitar and then making a mistake and going, wow, what is that mistake? I love that. And then trying to run with the mistake. Speaking of trying to capture the magic, quite often the magic is a mistake. Mm-hmm. So tell me about your longest running collaboration when you first started working with Roseanne Cash. Yeah. Yeah, kind of amazing, right? We're 32 years in. Kind of incredible. I know it's a miracle. I look at my career, my family, it's a small miracle.

44:08How did this happen? But as David Byrne said, and you might ask yourself, how did I get here? I do all the time. Lennon and McCartney only lasted 10 years. Yeah. Well, that's been a learning process for Roseanne and I as well. It's like it doesn't always work. And we can get on each other's nerves. But basically, we make each other laugh. and so uh you know once in a marriage you get over the you know you have to kind of get over that hump where you're trying to force your partner to be the person you need them to be right like I think that we all do that it's like god damn it just can't you just be more like me and it just all feels like life and death and it's like ah you know once you get over that and you realize uh you're gonna be fine you know you let them go be crazy and whatever um so you do get over that that's uh we did i'm good to know this is my takeaway from the whole interview no oh i could talk about yeah i've had to think about how did our marriage sort of survive because believe me there were moments there but how did uh she'd written pretty much i think on her own yeah before she may have written some with rod rodney right her first husband who you know i jokingly say my husband-in-law who We're still friends with him.

45:29We collaborated not too long ago, so we'll occasionally write a tune. I have to ask you because I've interviewed two other Johnny Cash son-in-laws. You're the only one that's still going strong. Marty Stewart and Nick Lowe. Yeah. Oh, that's right. I forgot about Nick Lowe. Yeah. Well, those are two eminently talented. human beings. I think the world of Marty and I don't know Nick, but yeah, he's extraordinary. So I want to get back to the musical collaboration, but what was it like the first time you met her father? You know, it was fine. I don't, I don't have a, you know, I think they were sussing me out.

46:16So I felt a little, I think they were trying to see what the, what the deal was. I, I think in their world, well, Nick must have been the same way or maybe less so. I was sort of exotic. I was really coming from the... I mean, this is... I don't know how deep I want to go here. I mean, John and June had a very structured world that revolved around them, more or less, right? Yeah. I'll say no more, but that revolved around them.

46:48And, you know, for the most part, Nashville-based. And then here comes this kind of New Yorker out of the blue. And then their daughter starts talking about wanting to move to New York and leave her husband, who they were friends with and stuff. So there was a certain, it was fraught with a certain uncertainty. They were never anything other than gracious and welcoming to me, though, I will say at the end of the day. And it's fine. Totally fine. That's all I have to say on that subject. For now, anyway. Until my book comes out. Well, I want to hear how you started writing with Roseanne because she was...

47:26She invited me. She invited me. She liked that Colvin record, that first one. And I think, what else had been out? Well, you know, the funny thing is, I guess I owe it all to Jim Lauderdale because he and I had written an album's worth of material, made a demo. this would be like 89, 90 around there. Somehow Rodney heard it, liked it and helped get Jim a record deal at Warner Brothers in Nashville and invited me to co-produce it with him. So Jim at that time was living in New York. So we flew down to Nashville. We went to their house and there was Roseanne. Now she says she knew the day she met me.

48:15I'm not wired that way. I'm a troglodyte, you know, on a lot of levels. So it takes, you know, it takes like a sledgehammer of love to like whack me in the head to make me sort of see what's going on. That's the day she started the song, You Big Dope. Well, and then plus, you know, they were, you know, they were quite the couple, right? They were really riding high. Roseanne had a lot of hits. Rodney was starting to have hits. They were, they were a very compelling couple. I was, I, that was very taken by them. His first hits were songwriting, right? Like. yeah great unbelievable songwriter great for emmy yeah most before yeah yeah really and but he's he started having hits as an artist too yeah i forget the name of his hits they were good anyway so we met um i was in a relationship and then rodney asked me to produce a record right after that um their marriage was flailing apparently it's been flailing for a bit i did not know that uh and i went back to new york and like a few months later roseanne called me said you know i'm thinking i'm moving and rodney and i are separating i'm moving to new york okay whatever and then uh you know she asked me if i'd be interested in writing with her uh i think i think there was probably more than one motive behind that i think there was a pure musical creative impulse, but I think there was a personal impulse too.

49:41Okay. Well, we'll stay with the professional. What was the first song you worked on together? I think she would say it was the song Seventh Avenue, where she had written these lyrics and she asked me if I would write music to it, which I was happy to do. Does that come easily to you? Yes. Someone gives you lyrics? Yeah. How do you walk me through that? It seems the simplest thing in the world. Well, I say easy. I can't guarantee that it's always going to be good, but there's nothing daunting about the process. I actually like it. The reason I like it is, so I do it, okay, I'm going to come back to this, but there's a little bit of a journey, which is I've collaborated with a ton of people now, and I've done it every conceivable way.

50:21I've done it this way, hand me a sheet of lyrics, I'll try, I'll write music to it. I've done it like with Sean Colvin in the beginning, I would write almost complete pieces of music. Like there's a song called Steady On. I had the whole track. She went off and wrote words to it. She likes that. In fact, she likes that a lot more than the other thing. She likes living and listening to the tracks. And I've sat in a room with people with a notebook and an acoustic guitar and just thrashed it out. Like with Sarah, we did a bunch of that. I also gave her a track or two. I mean, I still do it all different ways.

50:57so with Roseanne we've done it both ways uh it has turned out over the years I do think we write better if she writes a lyric and then I try to set it to music sometimes she has to go back and revise the lyric because whatever reason to scan I may have an idea of how it should scan or you know you know we should develop this more as a chorus or whatever the the music the songwriting bit would be but um it's it's just i don't know it's wired in me you know it's it's funny i saw elton do this once um terrible name dropping thing but elton once called rosanna and said i'm gonna be in new york for two days can i just come hang out john's studio so okay yeah great i'm all excited thinking like oh my god elton's gonna be here and maybe i want to write a song with him and da-da-da-da-da.

51:47But no, he came in, he just wanted to ask Roseanne, do you have any lyrics? And she had some lyrics. And Bruce, he sat down, he took the lyrics, and I think the moment of weakness was the title, I can't remember. And he wrote a goddamn Elton John song in like eight minutes. It just poured out of him. The piano riffs, the hooks, he wrote a bridge, he hummed the melody to the bridge it was brilliant and exciting i was just i recorded i have the whole thing we court up i'll send you it oh and then like he left and i and i was like i went i played drums i played bass i played electric guitar i kind of did it and i sent it to him and he kept saying he wanted roseanne to do it but it was an elton john record it had nothing to do with roseanne musically she couldn't have sung it um but it's great so i don't know just some people are wired to do it.

52:43I love doing it. And all right, here's the roundabout way. What it does for me is that you can't rely on your preconceived patterns. Like everybody, I have certain things that I kind of move toward. If I'm just playing guitar by myself, there are certain chord sequences or rhythms. There are certain things that are just become part of my DNA and they kind of pour out of me. And I'm not saying they're bad, but sometimes, like anybody, you can get tired of your own stuff. When you have to write somebody's lyric, for me anyway, it just forces you out of your box. You can't rely on your patterns and your cliches.

53:23You have to make it work to somebody else's lyric, to somebody else's scan. So to me, that's fun. That's creative. I actually love doing it. Love it, to be honest. And you sit there with the lyrics and a guitar? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it comes super easy. Sometimes it doesn't come super easy. Sometimes it'll come super easy and I'll listen to it the next day and I'll go like, oh, that's not that good. And then I'll try to write it, throw it out and try to write another one until it feels right to me. And is that how your writing has developed over the years? Yeah. Yeah. I try not to, I put some effort in trying not to repeat or get bogged down in any particular way to approach it.

54:03I try to like keep the canvas wide open and all the brushes and all the paints, like all different scattered all over. I don't like the feeling of doing it the same way every time. For me, that doesn't work. I need to have different ways in. Do you also change where you record, how you record? Do you give yourself those kinds of challenges? I don't consciously, although it doesn't sound like a bad idea. I have a very comfortable setup, so I have my own recording studio. So very comfortable there. Yeah. No reason to wander out. Yeah. And what, for you guys now, what's the signal between you or the phone call?

54:46What is it that says, we got to make a new record?

54:52That's a good question. Well, quite often, the contract. like rosanne is still on a major label so she actually owes them a record and we talk about it all the time but we're not on the same page uh you know i'm in the position of oddly enough as a session player i never wanted to be the guy i had to wait for the phone call but in some ways as a producer as a producer i have to wait for the phone call you know for artists coming sometimes i'll call an artist and say hey you know what are you doing you want to try to write a song as a kind of first step. Like we don't even have to think about making a record.

55:31Let's see if we can write a song. Like I say, or the phone call or somebody calls you and says, hey, do you want to produce William Bell? And you can't wait to get started. After this last break, we'll be back with more of Bruce's conversation with John Leventhal. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Oocla Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.

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58:51Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. We're back with Bruce Hedlum and John Leventhal, who are going to talk about John's new album, Rumble Strip. Well, we should talk about your new record. Yeah, let's do that. I want to know, first of all, how did you end up writing a lot of these songs? It's so, when I was listening to it, I thought, well, it's been so long since, you know, there have been records out with just great guitar playing, like a Leo, you know, Cocky record or, you know, Burjance or any of those guys. I love Burjance. I really did love Burjance. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool that you picked up on that.

59:34Yeah. Well, I think particularly Leo, a lot of your playing reminded me of Leo Kocki in this record. I like Leo Kocki. I can't say he influenced me, but Merchants definitely did. Yeah. Interesting. You know, Bruce, it's just somewhere like 2016 or so. You know, so I write a lot all the time. I'm always writing, you know. And how do you, do you always record what you're doing? I record a lot of it. Yeah, I do. I record a lot of it. You know, not, I don't always like flesh it out into like full productions or anything, but I'll record what I feel inspired to record. Sometimes it's super minimal.

1:00:12Sometimes it is more fleshed out. It's whatever the inspiration leads me to. and i mean that's basically how i do it and so then a lot of times when i make records with people i have this sort of you know catalog of ideas and i can play the artist like you know i'll try to be thoughtful about it i'll go through it and well you know maybe maybe this would be good for sarah whatever um and and invariably at least one or two are you know it's great but then And I have all these ideas and occasionally I'll listen to them and I go, God, you know, I kind of like them. They're weird, but I kind of like them and they're, you know, whatever.

1:00:52They're my orphans. They've never found a home. I don't know, about 2016. So at that point, I'm well over 30 years into producing and doing all this. You know, I just think like Leventhal, do you have the courage to make your own record? You know, I'm very comfortable being a producer. I felt a kind of pull to do it but I felt a kind of stress about it too like being the artist with a capital A and having the attention beyond I mean one Is that not something you wanted when you were younger? When you never had it That's interesting You didn't want to be the star I never had the need to be in the spotlight Never No it was always I just wanted to be the guy who played good guitar wrote good songs and then ultimately the guy who got to make the records i.e.

1:01:38a record producer you know um people like brian wilson and burt backrack and george martin and i mean i liked musical record producers but i didn't i didn't have the thing to be in spotlight now why didn't i one is in the typical way that our kind of music is presented i've never felt super comfortable being this the singer totally comfortable singing background parts and harmony parts and all that but I've never felt, I feel like I've developed a voice on the guitar, but I've never really developed a voice on my voice. And as I said, you know, I have a strong internal critic. It's like, ah, yeah, it's not good enough.

1:02:19It's not good enough. So, and then if it wasn't going to be a vocal record, well, what would it be? You know, it's like, I'm not enamored of guitar records per se. You know, the idea of me trying to go play some flashy guitar isn't, I mean, there's templates for this kind of record i don't really play flashy rocking guitar and you know i'm a compositional musician basically in which i use the guitars as an instrument to express these compositional ideas um i mean i could be a pianist but i i i'm more expressive on the guitar um so the bottom line is it was daunting to try to figure out what it was going to be, but this catalog of ideas kept growing, but I would keep avoiding it.

1:03:04I would go out on the road, I'd produce a record, I'd go to the grocery store, raise children, anything other than confront making my record. And then the pandemic came and I didn't have any excuses. And in a way it was perfect because I also threw out any preconceived notion I had of what it was I was supposed to or should or was going to do. And I just started writing and it was a disorienting time. And I'm sure the time, I live in New York City, everything around me was affecting me. So there was a kind of haunted, you know, uncertain feeling to a lot of stuff and I can hear it in a lot of the music I wrote.

1:03:48And I just started going down to the studio every day, mostly at night, generally with a glass of amber fluid and just starting to play and trying to break up my patterns. Again, I was like, some things I composed as I normally would, some things I tried not to. I would just turn on the tape machine, start playing and improvising and try to just navigate my way through creating a record. What was a good example of that? The title track, Rumble Strip. That was something I just went down. I started playing an incredibly simple riff, you know.

1:04:28Something along those lines. And, you know, five hours later, I had a track. And it sort of led itself. I didn't really control it. You know, other things, I'll play a solo guitar piece that feels composed, right, that I organized and it felt like that. And then, you know, there were some vocal tunes. I felt compelled to like step up to the plate and try singing and see how it went um so I wrote a tune with my wife Roseanne I wrote a tune with Marcon that interestingly enough we had uh I don't want to get too sidetracked here I had mixed Dr. John's last record and sadly he passed away right after I finished and uh so I had an idea of writing a song for him but it wasn't meant to be for various reasons uh but i was left with a lyric about an aging musician well you know when i started thinking about my record i thought well you qualify levinthal so uh i kind of repurposed it for myself i wrote a tune with matt berninger from the national a band that we like we also actually just worked a little on their newest record and then uh finally i've always loved orchestral music and uh you know we during that year first year the pandemic i had a lot of time and i did a lot of listening so i would put on a piece by aaron copeland and i go oh that's beautiful like what what's what are the strings doing there and then i realized i could play it on guitar and then i also realized boy if i played this little clarinet melody on kind of a twangy guitar with a bigsby it'll sound like duane eddy but it won't be duane eddy because it'll just be a completely different context.

1:06:07So that's the way my weird mind works. And that's how that all happened. Do you want to play something? Sure. Let me play something. What do you want to play? I wrote a series of hymns. And they just came out. I wasn't intending to do it. And I recognized them as hymns a little bit after the fact. I've always liked hymns, particularly Anglican hymns. although really the hymn tradition in Southern Baptist Church boasts a black and white church I like too it's it's it's part of the roots of I think everything we like about roots foundational music certainly R &B and um and all that you know my my uh my standard line now is like you know a good hymn you know can look sorrow straight in the eye but still leave you with some hope and uh I mean I think in some larger esoteric way that's what I've been navigating my whole career is like, I know I have this tendency toward the bittersweet.

1:07:05I like bittersweet, but I like that bittersweet where there's that little ray of light at the end. You don't want to slit your wrist when it's over. You just, you're trying to wear it lightly. Anyway, I'll play what I'm calling hymn number two.

1:07:31Thank you.

1:08:04Thank you.

1:08:39guitar solo

1:09:01Thank you.

1:09:37That's the one. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming in. It's been fabulous. Bruce, pleasure, man. Just a treat. Thanks to Jon Leventhal for playing some of his new album, Rumble Strip, for us. You can hear a playlist of all of our favorite Jon Leventhal written, produced, or arranged songs at brokenrecordpodcast.com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash brokenrecordpodcast where you can find all of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan.

1:10:13Our engineer is Ben Toleroy. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music is by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.

1:10:46The more you learn about your favorite artists, the more you want to know. Claude helps you keep digging, finding new threads and rabbit holes to explore. Whether it's discovering deeper meaning behind a detail in an interview or figuring out the influence behind an artist's particular era, Claude thinks with you to find the next clue. If you can't get enough of the stories behind your favorite music and artists, Claude will help you discover new layers you didn't know existed. Try Claude for free at claude.ai slash brokenrecord. This episode of Broken Record is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve.

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1:12:34This is an iHeart Podcast.