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Podcast Episode Notes: Margo Price on Broken Record
Podcast Information
- Title: Broken Record
- Hosts: Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam, Justin Richmond
- Episode Title: Margo Price
- Release Date: [Insert Release Date]
- Description: In this episode, Margo Price discusses her new album, *Hard Headed Woman*, her creative process, and her thoughts on the current state of country music with Bruce Headlam.
Episode Summary In this episode of *Broken Record*, Margo Price reflects on her journey in the music industry, the creation of her latest album *Hard Headed Woman*, and her creative relationship with her husband and collaborator Jeremy Ivey. Price discusses the contrasts between her work and mainstream country music, emphasizing authenticity and deep songwriting.
Key Themes
- Album Creation:
- *Hard Headed Woman* was recorded at RCA Studio A in Nashville, a historic location known for its connection to the "Nashville Sound".
- Price aimed for a return to raw storytelling and craftsmanship in her songwriting, contrasting with her previous experimental work.
- She engaged in extensive pre-production, collaborating with fellow songwriters and focusing on the precision of country music.
- Collaboration and Writing Process:
- Price and Ivey often work closely together, sometimes starting from scratch and other times building off individual ideas.
- The couple's creative synergy leads to rapid songwriting, with examples like "Don't Wake Me Up" coming together in just minutes.
- Authenticity in Country Music:
- Price critiques the inauthenticity of mainstream country music, advocating for deeper, more genuine storytelling in her work.
- She expresses frustration about the lack of representation for women in country music, highlighting the talent of female songwriters currently being overlooked.
- Personal Experiences:
- Margo reflects on her upbringing on a farm in Illinois and the struggles of her family, drawing parallels to the challenges faced by musicians.
- Her memoir, *Maybe We’ll Make It*, serves as a narrative of her journey and the lessons learned from hardship.
- Influences and Inspirations:
- Price discusses the influence of various artists, including Leonard Cohen and the Kinks, on her songwriting.
- She emphasizes the importance of storytelling and emotional depth in her music, often drawing from personal experiences and societal observations.
Notable Quotes
- "Country music is more exact than people think."
- "I think when I started, I wanted to be a folk singer and country and everything. It all comes from the blues, even rock."
- "There are an incredible amount of women in country music right now... But it seems they always just get one that is kind of let into the room and to be on the radio."
Songs Discussed
- "Nowhere Is Where" - Reflects her roots and connection to home.
- "Don't Wake Me Up" - A product of rapid collaboration with Jeremy Ivey.
- "Red Eye Flight" - Showcases her narrative style and emotional depth.
- Covers: "Get Your Tongue Out of My Mouth, I'm Kissing You Goodbye" and "I Just Don't Give a Damn" - Infused with personal significance and a contemporary twist.
Conclusion Margo Price's latest episode on *Broken Record* offers a rich exploration of her artistic journey, highlighting her commitment to authenticity and the craft of songwriting. Through candid conversations about her influences, writing processes, and reflections on the state of country music, Price establishes herself as a formidable voice in the genre.
Additional Links
- [Margo Price's Playlist on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3mgNl2gudrswPVYz6Lg7GU?si=95a317deb998451f&nd=1&dlsi=7490829e210f433c)
- [Broken Record YouTube Channel](https://youtube.com/brokenrecordpodcast)
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Feel free to modify any sections or add specifics such as the release date or links as needed!
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:06Pushkin.
0:10Margot Price's new album Hard Headed Woman was recorded in the heart of Nashville at the legendary RCA Studio A. That's the very place where the Nashville Sound was born, and where greats like Merle Haggard, Dolly Parton, and Charlie Pryde have all recorded. It's the perfect setting for Margot, who's as much a student of country's rich history as she is a fan of its fearless rule-breakers. She's never taken the straight path herself, a journey she tells in her 2022 memoir, Maybe We'll Make It. On today's episode, Bruce Hedlum talks with Margot about the making of her new album and her creative partnership with her husband and longtime collaborator, Jeremy Ivey.
0:47Margot also shares her thoughts on the inauthenticity of mainstream country and why she continues to stay committed to pouring both extreme craft and care into every song she writes. This is Broken Record. Real musicians, real conversations. This is an iHeart Podcast. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at UCLA Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.
1:37That's your business, Supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com. Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the U.S. where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ukla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 1H 2025. Every great music conversation goes beyond the surface. The influence that shaped an artist's sound. The moment that changed their creative direction. The story behind the story that fans never hear. Cloud helps you discover those deeper connections, upload interviews, liner notes, or music journalism. And Cloud reveals patterns across an artist's entire journey, showing how influences become innovations.
2:18Whether you're a music journalist, passionate fan, or someone who loves understanding creative processes, Cloud matches your curiosity about what really drives great artists. Try Cloud for free at cloud.ai slash broken record. Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level.
2:56The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them. Machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. Here's Bruce Hedlum's conversation with Margo Price. She starts by singing her new song, Nowhere Is Where.
4:01guitar solo Nowhere is where In 1999 I was speeding down that gravel road Past the Mercer County line Past the Mercer County line
4:27On your way down Won't you pick me up If there's room enough And you've got gas in the truck If you're going nowhere I could use a ride Point the headlines south and drive
5:06guitar solo
5:22Nowhere is where Thoughts go to roam Between the combine clouds And the waves of doubt And the miles and miles of court And the miles and miles of corn
5:44On your way down Won't you pick me up If there's room enough And you've got gas in the truck If you're going nowhere I could use a ride Point the headlights south and turn the radio on We'll be good as gone when the sun comes up Till the highway stops and the wheels fall off and the engine runs Till the pavement turns and tomorrow burns into a blaze of glory Got no regrets Light a cigarette Rewrite the story On your way down Won't you pick me up If there's room enough And you've got gas in the truck If you're going nowhere, I could use a ride With the headlights out and dry
7:27Margot, thank you for coming in. And we're talking about many things, but we're going to talk about Hard-Headed Woman, which is your new album. Can you talk a little bit about the idea you had going into this album, how it might have differed from your last album? Yeah, I'm so happy to be here. I'm a big fan of this podcast, by the way. Well, thank you so much. I really just wanted to get back to the songwriting and the storytelling with this record. And I had so much fun on the last album exploring, you know, more psychedelic rock territory with Jonathan Wilson. and it seeped over into our live shows with, you know, we were doing lots of double drums and I jumped back there on the drum kit and lots of jams that, you know, went on for 10, 20 minutes.
8:22But I really wanted to get back to, you know, more stripped down, raw storytelling. Did you come in with more finished songs for this one than the last one, which was a little more experimental, a little more ragged? Yeah, we, I mean, it took a really long time for me to get in the studio. I won't go into all the details on why, but we were writing on the road. We were writing. We went out to Joshua Tree and wrote some songs. My husband and I kind of stayed in a house out there and then ended up getting together with Rodney Crowell, one of my favorite songwriters in Nashville, and wrote with him, wrote with another friend of mine.
9:06Her name's Maureen Nagler. So yeah, we did a lot of pre-production for this album. We went over to a friend's house. He's got a home studio. And just the band and I were laying things down and trying things out before we got into RCAA because I did want to have a very clear cut. I think country music is more exact than people think. I think a lot of people think, oh, it's so easy to play country music, whatever, folk, Americana. But you've got to have all the parts there and everything has to give other things space. And so there was a lot more planning with this one for sure. So you mentioned Jeremy, your husband, your partner in crime, and your writing partner.
9:55How do you guys write together? Tell me about that. Yeah, so sometimes we sit down and, you know, completely blank slate and work from the ground up. Other times we'll go off separately and then come back into the room and show, you know, show each other the ideas. Because sometimes, yeah, it'll be something that he'll have an idea for a title and he'll throw it to me. And then I'll work on it and we'll come back together. But each one is unique in the way that it's kind of born. I think the best ones come when the melody and everything is in the words and everything's all just rapid fire. That's kind of how Don't Wake Me Up really came about like that.
10:41He found this notebook of mine and a poem I'd scribbled down a couple years ago and just was like, this is such a great poem. We should make this into a song. And so then he just started playing this very simple blues progression. And we had the whole thing written like 10 minutes. It was like, it was so fun. You know, I felt like I could have written 10 more verses to that one. I love that song because it's like an encyclopedia song. People don't do those things anymore. But like I've Been Everywhere, the old, I guess it was Hank Snow did that song. End of the World as We Know at REM. You know, just people who are just like, we're just going to, every variation.
11:22All the places. Yeah, it really started after I was reading a Frank Stanford poem. And I loved that duality of like what's going on in the world currently and still thinking about all the places you can dream. I should say this is primarily an album. It's about you. It's a lot of love songs, but the outside world does kind of weave its way in and out, sometimes in really unexpected places. There's a beautiful line in one song where you're talking about listening to the jukebox while democracy falls, and it's completely unexpected. It's like an Easter egg in the middle of this. Yeah, I think even when you're in the middle of a moment with somebody or, you know, with your family, that's kind of how it is.
12:13You know, those, the dark things, they creep in there. But it's, yeah, I'm especially proud of that line. Tell me about meeting up with Rodney Crowell and how that came about. Yes, I've been covering his work for a really long time. And I think he shared a version of that I did of Ain't Livin' Long Like This and kind of started creeping into his world. Actually, him and Emmylou Harris and myself, we were at a benefit and we were playing some songs, just passing the guitar, just me with the two of them. It was just so intimidating. and it was for a really good cause and I was kind of wood shopping these tunes with them and they were so supportive they were singing along on Close to You and on these songs before we even went into the studio and that was a good sign and Don't Wake Me Up, they were there in those early days and so just having them kind of building me up and going through these transitions that I've been in And I had left my managers, left my bands.
13:26But Rodney was more than happy to write with me. And really, we were kind of pulling so directly from his style on Red Eye Flight that I thought, man, it would be killer to get Rodney on this song. And went out to his house, got to hear some songs he was working on. And he helped us finish Bastards as well. and just watching him turn a phrase in real time and seeing kind of how he does it. He'd try one thing and then he'd keep taking it further. And what about this? What about this? He had this line in, don't let the bastards get you down that he threw out. I just laugh every time I hear it. He said, cocaine and poontang pleasure don't make a man of measure.
14:12I said, I don't think I can sing that word in a song, but I love that he threw that out there. Wow. Well, cocaine made it in. It sure did. Yeah, that was my line, though. The cocaine in existence couldn't keep their nose out of my business. Yeah. Well, he's a great songwriter. He is. He's unmatched. Can you think of something else in Red Eye, which I think is a great song on this album? Was there anything musical he provided for that as well, or was it mainly lyrical? A lot of those chords were Jeremy coming up with those chords, but it was mostly getting the lyrics dialed in on both those songs that I don't know who you think you are, but I sure know who I ain't.
14:56Like that was all Rodney, like twisting these things. I just love his Texas vernacular. Are there things you would the next time you sit down to write, you'll think what would is there a Rodney thing? Yeah. What would Rodney do? Yeah, what would Rodney do? Yeah, we had so much fun over there that day just swapping stories with him and passing the guitar around. And he has this really old black acoustic guitar that everybody has signed. It's got Johnny Cash's name is scratched into it. And at the end of the write, he had me sign his guitar. Oh, wow. It was like a rite of passage. And I had him sign mine, too.
15:38I have a guitar with a bunch of signatures. But it's just really surreal after, like I said, just kind of digging into his work, not only as a songwriter and a lyricist, but I'm a huge fan of his memoir, China Berry Sidewalks, was brilliant. And so being able to kind of have him as a mentor and say, yeah, it's okay if you pull from me. I'll go ahead and put my name on it with you and give my blessing. Is that one of the things that inspired you to write your memoir? Definitely. His memoir is beautiful. I've got a big thing about whenever I get into an artist, I immediately try to go see if there's any books written on them or even better, like a memoir.
16:22and um i think the reason i wanted to write my book was really just so i didn't forget all of the all of the coming up and you know all those like times of struggle because i never have journaled really and it's i was using a lot of substances and drinking very heavily in a lot of my early days in Nashville. And so it's kind of like putting together pieces of a crime scene. You know, I had to ask a lot of people. Sometimes a literal crime scene for your book. Yes, sometimes. Yeah. You could have the same tagline as Keith Richards and his memoir, which is, surprise, I remember it all. Yes, it was so good, too.
17:10I love, I've read it, and then we've also listened to it on tape back when we were touring in like an Astro van with my old band Buffalo Clover. We would just always have Keith Richards' life on and like his voice while he's saying it. It's just so fun to listen to. I just remember him being like, the purest cocaine, purest heroin. But I was going to mention Merle Haggard because there's such a kind of Roy Nichols guitar sound on a lot of these songs, but starting with the first one, starting with Don't Let the Bastards Get You Down. I really love all the tones we were able to achieve. My guitarist, Jamie Davis, who's been with me since the beginning, played on Midwest Farmer's Daughter and All American Made.
18:02He is just so thoughtful in what he plays, and it's not ever too showy. It's like melodic, serves the song. him and Russ Paul who came in to play Pedal Steel Russ Paul is an absolute legend and has just played on everybody's stuff the way that they had this kind of musical conversation with each other throughout the whole album it's just, it's brilliant and I think it was fun for Russ too because there were songs where we're like let's gritty it up like Red Eye Flight he had his Pedal Steel sounds like a semi-truck just plowing through And I don't know if he gets to do that on all of the sessions that he plays.
18:42And the other one, which I think is an absolute killer, is Love Me Like You Used To Do. Oh, thank you. That song was actually written for me by a dear friend of mine. His name is Steven Knudsen, and I've known him for nearly 20 years. brilliant songwriter brilliant singer as well and um painter and just kind of all around talented human who's just working at a grocery store in nashville not really doing anything with his music and uh he wrote a song for me a few years back that i put out it's called it ain't drunk driving if you're riding a horse. And so he sent me this one and I just knew I had to sing it.
19:30And there's a couple of lines in there like using drugs for the masses and rose colored glasses till we can't even see what is true. It was like, I don't often want to just cover a song that maybe I haven't had a hand in writing, but he wrote it almost from a perspective of mine and just knowing me so long. You could also close your eyes and imagine Tanya Tucker doing it or any of the kind of... I wish she would. Yeah, maybe she will when she hears that. I thought that about a lot of these songs. I know you are the artist, you don't write to have other people cover your songs. I know they have.
20:13But on this album, I thought, well, who's not going to want to cover Close to You or Wild at Heart? It just seemed... Thank you. Yeah, I wanted it to feel timeless. I didn't want it to feel like current or too old. It just can live in a space that's a forever space, hopefully. Well, that's an interesting question because I was thinking about this album and I was thinking about people who are performing now. And I know you're not on the sort of pop end of Nashville country songwriting. I just looked up out of sheer interest the top 30 songs on the country charts this week. And I think there were three women.
20:53All the rest were men. All the rest may have been Morgan Wallen, actually. But they were... Morgan who? Yeah. I get the feeling his is the album everybody falls asleep to and it just keeps playing. And it's got, you know, each song has like 30 co-writers on it. It's ridiculous. Yeah, I try to stay out of their side of town and hope they stay out of mine. That's why I covered that George Jones song, I Just Don't Give a Damn. Right. That's felt like a bit, a couple of the covers felt a little bit like this is you talking to your hometown. Yeah, I think you could even say Love Me Like You Used To.
21:34It could be to a lover, and that's probably who it was written for. But it could also be about, you know, maybe fans who've turned their back on me or maybe people who don't like me because of, you know, what I stand for or things I've said in the past. Yeah. We'll be right back with more from Margo Price and Bruce Hedlum after the break. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at an Oocla speed test, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.
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23:08where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ukla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 1H 2025. The greatest music stories aren't always in the songs themselves. They're in the late night studio sessions, the chance encounters, and the cultural moments that shaped entire movements. For music lovers who find themselves going down rabbit holes about their favorite artists, Claude, an AI thinking partner, helps you explore those deeper questions. Whether you're wondering about the connections between different scenes, trying to understand what drove a particular creative period, or exploring how social movements influenced sound, Claude works through these complex cultural puzzles with you.
23:49It's built for people who know that understanding music means understanding the human stories behind it. Claude doesn't just compile facts. It helps you see patterns across decades of music history, ask the kinds of follow-up questions that reveal deeper truths, and works through the nuanced relationships between artists, movements, and moments. Whether you're a music journalist, industry professional, or someone who just lives for understanding the stories behind the sounds, Claude matches your level of curiosity about what really drives great art. Try Claude for free at Claude.ai slash brokenrecord and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner.
24:27Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them. Machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing.
25:04Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. Your last album was Far Less Country. Are you comfortable saying, yeah, I'm a country artist, I'm Nashville, this is who I am? Well, definitely. I've lived in Nashville longer than I've lived in my hometown or in Illinois. And it's a huge piece of my identity and of my soul. And country music as well. I love it. I don't think anybody can own it. I don't think any one group of people can say, this is country music. I mean, you really have to clarify when somebody says, I like country music, you have to say, well, what kind? It's not cut and dry like that.
25:51And I'm not a cut and dry artist. I love so many different types of music. I feel like when I started, I wanted to be like a folk singer and country and everything. It all comes from the blues, even rock. And, you know, it's all it's all in this great big melting pot. And, you know, I was in soul bands and had horn section and backup singers and have done James Brown covers. And there's just too many things to want to just whittle myself down to I'm a country music artist. And that is why I think that the label or the genre Americana is helpful because it gives a space for people who are just, we're writing, you know, story songs, we're using real instruments, we're playing from a genuine deep down place.
26:48and so yeah I hate labels I hate genres but um it is a beautiful thing and a place to have Americana music I just saw Machine Gun Kelly came out with an album he has an album coming out it's called like Americana something which is I mean he had Bob Dylan do the uh the intro for it have you seen that yet is that really Bob Dylan I think somebody confirmed it's really Bob Dylan it's not AI Really? Yeah. At this point, the difference between Bob Dylan and AI Bob Dylan is probably a pretty thin one, isn't it? Oh, no. Don't say that about my precious Bobby. Okay. Well, we're going to talk about actually your early influences because you didn't grow up in Nashville.
27:29You grew up, unlike the vast majority of people who play country music, you actually grew up on a farm. Did. Yeah. I grew up in a very rural area. 3 ,000 people in my hometown and we lived outside of the town. no close neighbors and down a gravel road and all that cliched shit. You talk very movingly in your book about the problems that farmers were having at that point and started with the boycott of the Soviet Union. It was interesting. I didn't know that's what led to so many of the foreclosures in the 80s. Yeah. It took a lot of interviewing my family to kind of find out why they lost the farm.
28:09It was, you know, I thought at times people said, oh, it was a bad drought and there was a bad drought that year. Other times it was, oh, you know, this corrupt man in town who was laundering money and is in prison now. and other people were saying uh oh no it was because the government had us put in these green bins to dry our own corn and then we all went bankrupt it's there's so many problems and it's it's so hard for farmers to make a living that's why i feel like even though i'm not a farmer i i connect with them because it's the same as like a music career it takes all the just the perfect environment to make it grow and to make it thrive.
28:54And they're up against a lot of challenges right now. Climate change, politics. Right. You have a lovely song that I think is about growing up there called Nowhere Is Where. Yeah. You come from. Tell me a bit about that song. Yeah. Every time I go back home, it's very grounding. It always kind of resets my nervous system. in a way. And yeah, just talking about the things that I saw growing up was, you know, a lot of crop dusting, planes always going overhead and just massive fields, vast emptiness. And that song, Jeremy and I started writing together. And it was taking a really long time to flush out the tagline, the if you're going nowhere, I could use a ride line.
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29:52And I don't know why. I just couldn't quite get the phrasing. I couldn't figure out what I wanted it to be. There's a song that is actually a Beck song, and Johnny Cash covers it. And it's called Rowboat. And that song's like haunted me. The lyrics of it are like, you know, pick me up in your truck, go in no place. I'll be down with the gasoline you'll be strange, you'll be far away and that song has just like seeped into my existence I feel like I definitely pulled a bit from that but Morgan Nagler who has written a lot with Jenny Lewis and Phoebe Bridgers she came over and really helped me get that kind of cool ending that we have on it where it like picks up and I'm happy with how that one turned out So a song like that that takes you a while how long will you work on a song like that?
30:43Yeah, that one was a couple months of like, you know, figure some stuff out, get to a good place and then go back and listen to it and you're like, ah, something's still not right. And try to wrestle with it again and set it down. And I think, how long did Leonard Cohen say he wrestled with writing Hallelujah? It's times when I feel like, oh, maybe I should. Oh, that's right. It was like three years or something. Yeah, three years or something. And Bob Dylan told him he wrote a song in like two hours. Right, his favorite song. And I think, you know, sometimes it's lightning and sometimes it takes a little bit more nuance and a little bit more attention to detail.
31:23And I really wanted to get that one right because it's so sparse. And sometimes the ones with less words are a little bit harder to write. Mm-hmm. Now, Leonard Cohen was the writer who, he had these notebooks and he would write dozens and dozens of verses and then whittle them down. Are you that kind of writer? Do you write a lot and then squeeze it in or? I go through phases, phases of being very prolific and then phases of drought where I'm working on other things. I've been writing another book, so I'll go in between those mediums. And, you know, sometimes I've got seven or eight like frames of songs working at a time and then I won't show them to anybody for a long time.
32:13And then I'll finally, you know, sit down with usually Jeremy. What do you think about these? But yeah, I think it just kind of depends on the season of where I'm at. But I definitely have Sylvia Plath always talked about how she felt like her work was never good enough. She just had little fragments of things like, you know, she was comparing it to furniture. Like, oh, I've got this little chair over here and I've got a couch over here. Like building the album is like building a whole house. So it's good to have all those fragments lying around. Is there always an aha moment with a song where you go, OK, it's now it's working?
32:50I think so. Yeah, there's a I love when it kind of unlocks itself. Usually I think that's when you don't need to refer back to the demo to remember it. How interesting. You've got it in your head all day. And you just, you get a new song high when you know you're like sitting on something good. I think the intro to Hard-Headed Woman, there's some lines in there that I had been kicking around in other songs for a long time. like the um i've been high as heaven and stubborn as hell that's in like three different songs i wrote along the way um we did these sessions out at rancho de la luna back in 2023 maybe early 2024 and um got a song called always leaving that i wrote with morgan nagler and jonathan wilson and a few other songs that were good songs.
33:48I just felt like they didn't fit with this project. And so then I was like, well, I can scavenge from the bones the good lines and put them in what I'm working on now. Because I'm only ripping off myself. You mentioned Leonard Cohen because he did live in Nashville for a while. I didn't know that. He lived in Nashville. Really? And one thing he said was that living in Nashville, listening to country music, it gave his songs a better narrative sense that they were just wasn't this first and then this first, but that it had some momentum going through. and I thought of that a couple times in this album when you were writing Red Eye Flight which just sounds like I'm finally sick of you, I'm leaving but then there's the line about actually being the love of your life which sort of is a little unexpected and kind of, it gives the song a lot more narrative strength because that doesn't come right off the top it's not, you're the love of my life, now I'm leaving Yeah, that song was, when I first started writing it, it was kind of directed at a group of people.
35:01And Roddy told me I needed to narrow it down and point my finger at one person, which I thought was great. And it definitely, you know, my husband has at times had to be my punching bag on stage and I'll sing mean lines at him, you know, just for effect. But that one is a bit about our relationship. And it was also about my previous bandmates, too. And it's really hard to write a song and be mad at, like, six people all at once. It's easier to be mad at one? It's easier to just narrow it down to one. But, yeah, I was coming from a larger place. Can you write when you're angry? Oh, not when I'm, like, an 11.
35:49Not when I'm that mad, but it is a good tool for me to process emotions. And I do feel anger very strongly sometimes. So, yeah, I can write when I'm angry. Just not at, like, the boiling point. Does that lead to good songs, do you think? I think so. I like the finger-pointing songs. I like angry songs. I think, like, This Town Gets Around from my, you know, my first record. and even like don't let the bastards get you down. I would say. It's angry. It's angry at people. And sometimes you can't tell the people that you're mad at that it's about them. But yeah, it's a great way to just move through the emotion and just now you've felt it, now you get to move on.
36:35It's like writing the letter that you never send. So when you were growing up, When did music enter your life when you were growing up? I was always listening to the radio growing up. My parents always had a stereo system with the record player and the console and the two giant speakers. And the big console, yeah. Yeah, and we had it in the summers. We would pull the speakers outside and just always had music on. I think I probably started writing some of my first songs and poems. I was very young. I don't know, like six, seven, eight, and just hit record and play on a tape recorder. And I would just sing things acapella with no accompaniment.
37:19I started piano lessons, probably around that age as well, maybe like seven, eight. And I was learning, you know, whatever my piano teacher wanted me to learn. But when I got the guitar, that was really when it picked up. And that was It's like 12, 13, right around that time I started playing the guitar and really getting serious about the songwriting. And was there a moment that you said, maybe this is my life, maybe this is what I'm going to do? I vividly remember the guidance counselor coming into a classroom in elementary school and passing everybody a sheet. and you had to write down, you know, what you wanted to be for career day and you could leave school on this day and go work at whatever trade you chose.
38:12And I think I wrote down like Broadway actress or, you know, singer something. And Mrs. Erdman, she said, no, that's not a job that you can choose. And I went home and I was pretty crushed. You know, I told my mom like, wow, she said, I can't do this. And so my mother fought really hard for me to go to this theater in the Quad Cities near where we lived, somewhere in like Rock Island, Illinois. And I got to go shadow some actress that was working in the theater. That's an amazing story. Yeah. Good on your mom. Yeah. She was like, well, absolutely. You can do that if you want to. That's of course It's a job.
38:55But then when college started rolling around, everybody was like, well, but you got to go to college. You know, my father didn't have the luxury of going to college. And they were like, we're going to pay for it and you're going to go. And so off I went to NIU, Northern Illinois University. and after a couple years of just being bored, not showing up to the classes and drinking too much, had a psychedelic mushroom trip and I just decided that I wanted to be a musician. That was at 20. And I dropped out of school after my sophomore year and moved to Nashville. Who were your influences at that point when you were writing?
39:43Lucinda Williams, Gillian Welsh, Fiona Apple, like I already said, Leonard Cohen. I've already mentioned Bob Dylan, Joan Baez. I think every woman that picks up a guitar wants to be Joan Baez. Is that right? At least that's how I feel. Emmylou Harris told me that too. She said that Joan was the reason she picked up a guitar. I liked Jules' first record. I loved Pieces of You when that came out. I just thought that was one of the first songs that I learned how to play on the guitar was Pieces of You. And I sang it at a county fair. I was in sixth grade and I won first place. Good for you. That was also, that was a good time for women's music.
40:27It was all over the radio. Absolutely. I mean, I loved Alanis Morissette too. There was so many people. I mean, and Fiona Apple as well. I was obsessed with Fiona Apple, every record that she put out. I would go pick it up, and I'm so glad I had them to look up to. And that's what I think the real problem is with country music today, is that there are an incredible amount of women in country music right now. They're writing the best songs. They're making the best records. But it seems they always just get one that is kind of let into the room and to be on the radio. and then the rest of us have to kind of fend for ourselves.
41:10I know. There's no question all the best writers now are women in country music. Absolutely. We've interviewed lots of them. Yeah. Mary Gauthier. Now she's been there for a little. I love Mary Gauthier. I actually did a writing session with her not too long ago. How was that? Amazing. She's, her and I have a lot in common and had a lot to talk about. So I think we talked for nearly two hours before we picked up the guitars and started writing. But she really puts herself into her songs and she's not afraid to, you know, the self-deprecation or the vulnerability that I think it takes to really write something that breaks your heart and hopefully breaks the person's heart listening to it.
41:50Well, her album, The Foundling, about being adopted is just an amazing... I have a friend who is adopted and struggles with it in a way. And it wasn't until I heard her album I really kind of understood those feelings. I think Gillian Welsh does such a great job, too, of kind of sharing her experience. I'm sure you feel like an orphan your whole life. My husband as well. He was adopted. He's got a great song called Orphan Child. So, yeah, it's a lot to process when you grow up and you don't know who your family is. It is interesting that when you grew up, there was, in almost every kind of music, like, that's when Hole was big.
42:31And in alternative music, it was Liz Phair. It was like everything. Yeah, I mean, Lilith Phair was huge. You know, I think it was, it felt like a very liberating time to be a woman. But then you had what Woodstock II happen. And you're like, okay, maybe we're not as far as we think. And obviously now. We're just going backwards, unfortunately. One of the influences you talked about in your book really surprised me was the kinks. Really? Well, it's not that I don't love the kinks. I do. But they're so sort of arch and English and class-obsessed. What was it about the kinks that you loved so much?
43:16I think it was all the things you just said. I loved that they were class obsessed. I loved that they made albums that were about things other than love. And, you know, they're the underdogs of the Brit Rock scene. They didn't have the opportunities that the Rolling Stones or the Beatles did. and I think that's one of the reasons why I really gravitated towards them. Dead End Street, all those songs, like we lived in those albums. Lola versus Power Man, Money Go Round, talking about, you know, like where all the money's going when you get signed and stuff like that. Like that has absolutely still seeped into who I am.
44:04And I think even that first record, Midwest Farmer's Daughter, I was talking about some of those things. I've got to see Ray when he played in Nashville, and he did a record in Nashville with one of my friends. And I was trying so hard to get in there and meet him. This was like 17 years ago or something. and Muswell Hillbillies. They were so obsessed with Southern culture even during that album cycle. And it's really cool to hear how that kind of echo chamber goes back where it's like, we're influencing Brit Rock and they're influencing us. And it just, I love it. And I mean, the song Waterloo Sunset, probably one of the greatest songs.
44:47So good. And like Strangers, that song destroys me. Yeah. Yeah. There's a good song on this album, I think, about that period in your life called Losing Streak. Yeah. So tell me about that. Yes, that song is a pretty exact story of what was going on in those days in my 20s. And I loved being homeless. I loved having that struggle of like, oh, okay, I'm going to have to sleep in my car at the state park. I don't know. It was just really whatever I had to do to not move back in with my parents and bruise my pride and let them know it really wasn't working out so great. Did you have faith that whole time that it would work out?
45:38No. Really? What kept you going? Because most people would have dropped out by that point. even now and even if all you know if jack white had not scooped me up out of my obscurity i would like to think i would still be writing songs and playing songs and making music i mean i i might still have to have like a straight job but it's just such a huge part of my identity and like i said it's my emotional processing and everything kind of goes through that i've done a lot of work with my therapist to kind of figure out where like musician Margo ends and the other one begins because it's just very deeply wrapped up in who I am.
46:22Don't do too much therapy on that. You want to keep the creative juices flowing. She moved to Kansas City, so I haven't been able to talk to her. Thank God you won't be cured. That's the important thing. Oh, there's not a chance for that. I don't think I have the funds. One last break and we're back with Margot Price. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at an Ooclas speed test, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.
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49:46Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. you had a uh you tell a funny story about i think a great uncle you had who was a songwriter and i think a pretty successful one wasn't he for absolutely he's still in nashville he's still sharp as a tack i just went over and wrote a song with him a couple months ago really that turned out beautifully and i'm definitely going to record it his name's bobby fisher and he moved to nashville in his early 40s, left his job. Him and his wife moved down there, and she kind of supported him as a nurse until he got his foot in the door. But he hung out at Tootsie's with all the degenerates and hung out with Roger Miller and ended up getting George Jones cuts and Tani Tucker and Charlie Pryde.
50:41And just the list goes on. It's really impressive. But when I moved to Nashville, I think that my mom and my family, kind of everybody thought like, oh, maybe Uncle Bob will plug you in, get you in the studio and get you an album deal. And so I went over to his home and I, you know, I'd only really met him like a few times in my life when we passed through Nashville on vacation, but played him some songs. And he sat there and listened. And when I finished, he said, well, you know what you need to do, don't you? And I said, no, what do I need to do? And he said, well, you need to get rid of your TV.
51:27You need to get rid of your computer. And you just really need to sit in your apartment and just write and just keep writing and just don't stop writing because you're not there yet. and that hurt as you know as a 20 year old who just thought that I was already great it really really hurt but it was exactly the tough love that I needed. And did you take his advice? I did I did I started going out to like every writer's round in Nashville and would go you know sign up on the list and explain to people what the writers rounds are yeah writers round is like usually they're in a bar or like a little listening room or a club and it'll be like oh you know wednesday night's like new faces night or whatever so you can come out and you got to get there early because you got to sign up on the list it's kind of like karaoke but you know you bring your own guitar and you bring your own songs and um there was this place that we went we started of frequenting.
52:31It was called the Hall of Fame Lounge. And it was in a Best Western right down on Music Row. The inside was decorated like Cracker Barrel or something. It just had like all these tchotchkes and knickknacks and antlers and things up on the wall. And everybody there that was playing was like 40 to 70 years old. And I was 20. I don't even think I could drink at the time. But I would hang out there and I would hang out with all those old people and they would buy me beers and I would just sit and study like what was the audience reaction to, you know, somebody finish a song or say a line. It was like, what makes the song good?
53:10What makes it memorable? And that was in lieu of like going to Belmont University and getting a degree in music or, you know, going to Berkeley. I just cut my teeth around town. At the Best Western. At the Best Western Hall of Fame lounge. You said at the time you were writing a lot of minor chords, Sylvia Plath lyrics. On this album, you mentioned in some of the publicity stuff, you said, I want to do a 1-4-5 song. I want to go back to that very basic sound. Tell me about what you were thinking when you said that. Yeah, the three chords and the truth, you know, cliche that you find. It's so true.
53:56Sometimes you only need one chord if you've got a melody and a hook that's good enough. I think my husband, he can be quite cordy with things that he does. He's just got an incredible knowledge of, you know, how the guitar works. And I find that so many of the songs that I've kept in my catalog and the things that I play on stage that are older, a lot of times they are just a 1-4-5. and you know you don't have to reinvent the wheel or like make something that has never been done before i think building off of tradition and and going back to these prolific songwriters like christopherson who definitely pulled from his vernacular on like losing streak but it's a very i mean those chords are they're one four five there's there's no magic tricks going on there Although the magic trick is that it is a 1-4-5, isn't it?
54:59That always amazes me. Sometimes I'll hear songs and I'll think, I wonder what that progression is. And I'm like, oh, it's a 1-4-5. Less can really be more sometimes. Yeah, but it can sound so different and it's sort of disarming. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do love, you know, doing a key change, having like a lift that happens so subtly you don't quite notice. I just don't give a damn. That last chorus moves up. Yeah, you've got a modulation. Yeah. Or even like Kissing You Goodbye. I think we added a really fun chord. Sometimes I don't know chord names, but I know how to play them. Kissing you goodbye.
55:47I don't know if the original had this in there, but it just adds... A little passing chord. It adds so much nice little passing chord. Yeah. So your husband, he's the chord nerd? He is a little bit more of a chord nerd. I mean, you know, I know my circle of fifths, and there's definitely been times where I've been able to kind of break through something that's never been done, like Hands of Time is an A. The chorus goes down and modulates down to G. And when I initially wrote that song, my husband said, I don't think that works. That doesn't sound right. But it gives the illusion that the key is being moved up because I'm jumping up into my belting voice, but I'm actually modulating down.
56:36Yeah, I love when stuff happens. It's always such a great trick, isn't it? When you think it's going up, but it's... It's going down. Yeah, it's like a little counterpoint with chords. Yeah. You said in your book that was the first time you said, okay, now that's a song. Yeah. and I really wasn't writing it for anybody but myself it was really just like I didn't have a therapist back then and I needed to get some things off my chest and um there's a lot of subliminal lines in there that you know I say like um the men they brought me problems and the drinking brought caused me grief I don't exactly go into exactly what my men troubles are but it was you know just every line of that song it was it was therapy and it was finally me just saying like okay I'm I'm a loser musician nothing's happened for me and this is where I'm at and people loved it were you conscious of those thoughts when you were writing it or is that something you looked back later and said that must have been what I was feeling Conscious of like being self-degrading or like...
57:48Yeah, what you just said, like, here's a song about me as the loser musician. I think I really had just reached a breaking point. I remember so many times we would go on tour with my band Buffalo Clover and we'd set up a little weekend run and we'd come back. We'd be hanging out in the bar and your friends ask you, like, how was the run? How were the shows? How was the turnout? out oh it was great you know you just lie through your teeth oh yeah everybody loved it and then kind of at a certain point it was just like man this is this is not going the way that i want it to and it just felt like i just took off a heavy coat and was like all right this is this is who i am this is where i'm at now and not be afraid to look at myself in the mirror interesting you had no money back then.
58:38This is what fascinated me. But you were determined that you were going to record your first album at Sun Records. And you managed to do it. I don't know how. You knew somebody who could pick a lock or something. I don't know how you did that. Now, this album, tell me about the recording of it. Yeah. Well, yeah, the first album, we pawned a car, pawned a bunch of stuff so we could go in there. And it was luck that we got to do it because Because I ended up, some of the money from the pond items had disappeared. And so then I had to borrow money from a guy who owned a pizza shop to pay for the rest of it.
59:17Because the check to Sun bounced. Anyway, I digress. This album. You know, it was probably not the first bounce check they've ever had. Yeah. I'm guessing. I need to reach out to that guy. Yeah, this album. I've never recorded a proper record in Nashville as a solo artist since taking off. I have recorded in my 20s and stuff. We recorded at studios all around Nashville with my bands. But I've recorded at RCAA in the past. And I went in to do the song with Billy Strings, Two Stone to Cry. And I just was so blown away with how it sounded in there. I mean, like we were all in the room live playing everything live and we had some, you know, a couple of dividers like blocking the sound.
1:00:09But it was amazing because if you didn't like anything and somebody needed to, oh, I hit a wrong bass note there. You could go in and just punch it because the way that studio is built, it's just, it's perfect. And the history that's there, just all the songs, all the artists that have recorded there. It's where, you know, Chet Atkins, like, refined the Nashville sound. It's where Willie and Waylon and Leon, you know, were making records that defined the outlaw movement. And also just knowing that Dolly Parton recorded 9 to 5 and Jolene there. It was all those things. I just wanted to, like, pick up that energy.
1:00:49And that was how it was when we were in Sun as well. It's like, okay, I'm in the room where Elvis was. I'm in the room, you know, where Johnny Cash sang these songs. And late at night when we were working at RCAA on Hard Headed Woman, sometimes you would hear noises and there would be nobody else in there. And I'm not saying that it was haunted, but I'm not saying it's not haunted. All those ghosts and all those prolific recordings that were made there. I just, I wanted a piece of that. Does the room change how you record, how you sing? Yeah, one of the main things, I think, about this album is the vocals that we were able to achieve.
1:01:34Because I was just alone in this massive room doing the vocals. And we didn't have to use an echo chamber. We didn't have to use a lot of reverb or things in post because it just sounded great right off the bat. We spent a lot of time and a lot of money. but I don't I don't regret it I really in the past I've I haven't rushed things but I just didn't have the budget always to spend all the time on all the extra little accoutrements and the minutiae and like I would go back I would listen to mixes I would say I've got to hit that vocal again I can do that better I know it and really we went in we made the record last June and then the band and I went out we went on tour with Tedeschi Trucks and we played all these all the songs that we recorded and during that time I was like learning how to sing them better you know I think a lot of times it's like people make the record and then they go out and tour it and then you've got all these other ideas of like oh the melody could have actually went here and it would have been more effective or so that was really crucial and you know I had all these ideas oh I'm gonna get this record out like spring of you know 2025 that was the goal.
1:02:50And now here it's like, well, it's August, but this record's going to be around forever. And there's not one single thing that I would say, oh, I want to go back and do that different. It's exactly the way I want it. Are there things you can do with your voice now that you couldn't do earlier in your career? Absolutely. I think being in the studio is such a different beast than singing live. And I've been working with a vocal coach on and off. His name's Rob Stevenson. He's just transformed the way that I think about singing and also just giving me a lot of different vocal warmups and scales and things to do.
1:03:30And also, I think in my early days, you're kind of impersonating people, the records that you've heard, other singers that you've heard. It takes a really long time to refine your sound. And of course, some people just come out of the gate, you know, like Johnny Cash or something. It's like, he sings like Johnny Cash. His voice is there. Everything's there. But for me, at least, it's been a long, arduous process of figuring out exactly who I am, who I want to sound like. And you've got a new band. I do. And what's that like? It's amazing to have some fresh energy and just different ways of doing things.
1:04:11I've got some incredible singers out with me. there's this um guy who sang all over the record his name's logan ledger and he's just got like a a george jones type voice where it's like he's just so gifted and um him and rodney sang harmonies on don't let the bastards get you down and red eye flight and i just after i had him on the recordings i just kept thinking like man i've got to i've got to get him out on the road with me And so, yeah, he's been out touring with me. I've got a fiddle player. I just really wanted to switch up the instrumentation. It was time for a change. The fiddle opens this album.
1:04:53It seems like a real statement. Yeah, the intro I came and tacked on later. That was like one of the last things that I recorded. But I knew that it needed something. And it's crazy because it was like, first the album was going to open with Losing Streak. And sequencing is so challenging, I think. But once I had that intro piece, it was like, all right, everything feels cohesive now. It almost feels, because of the short introduction, I hate to say concept album, but I mean a concept album in the way the Kinks used to make them. Yeah. Well, I mean, I keep pointing back to Red-Headed Stranger.
1:05:33I mean, the album's called Hard-Headed Woman. It's like the same amount of syllables. You got headed in the middle of it, which is like obviously the most incredible concept record of all times. And I did want it to have a really cohesive feel where it's like, OK, everything supposed to be exactly this way. So tell me about your choice of covers. Yes. This Waylon Jennings tune that we interpreted here was passed to me from Jesse Coulter, who was obviously married to Waylon Jennings for a good long time. and I produced a record of hers. Gosh, it's been about six years ago now. And her and I were looking through this old suitcase of Wayland's, like all these songs, just songs he'd written, songs people had given him.
1:06:26It was so thrilling to rifle through there. But she said, oh, I've got this song that's so fun. It's called Get Your Tongue Out of My Mouth, I'm Kissing You Goodbye. It's like the line in it. She goes, I can't do that song. I'm too old, but you should do that song. and so I've literally been thinking about covering this song and doing this song for like six or seven years and it just has such a like Loretta Lynn type feel of like don't come home drinking or you know just I needed a song like that I changed a few of the words because it was actually inspired by Waylon Jennings lawyer slash drug dealers ex-wife so she said that you know uh she was really her jesse was hanging out with waylon and and said drug dealer and the ex-wife and he tried to give her a kiss and she said get your tongue out of my mouth i'm kissing you goodbye waylon went wrote the song but it's kind of more aimed at like a woman he's cutting her down by talking about her peroxide hair and this and that i changed it to like your polyester suit.
1:07:32And that's one that I always like to direct at my husband's when we're on stage. It's such a fun song. It feels like it's directed at the music business. Yeah, it absolutely could be. Yeah. Everybody you met in your book, I'm going to like, who said, I don't think so. Yeah, we picked up the tempo on that one. It feels like a, I mean, when you hear Waylon's got a version of it and it's just it's laid back and whatever. But like me and the band, we tear into it. It feels more like punk than even country. And then the George Jones song. Yes. I just don't give a damn. This song I became obsessed with.
1:08:13There's a podcast that I love. My friend Tyler Mahan Co. does. It's called Cocaine and Rhinestones. And he has a wonderful book as well. and he played he does his whole second season was about george and tammy and when i started getting ready to do this record again i i saved the podcast so i could listen to it during this time and um when i was really focused and at home and writing and i'd never heard this song and george does it super slow so again we upped the tempo i love the guitar riff that my producer matt ross bang came up with that it just opens it and it feels very like jolene goes to memphis or something it's just got this lick that just sticks in your head i'm sure he you know he was singing it probably to tammy or or whatever when he wrote it it was written george wrote it with a guy named jimmy peppers i just think it's the best name but i i've just resonated with that But if ever you try to call me, you know, I'll be on my side of town.
1:09:18I feel that in my bones. It's like, I'll be over here. You guys can do your thing over there. Just leave it at that. That east-west divide in Nashville. That's right. That river right there, that Cumberland River. Yeah. Keep on your own side. Well, thank you. It's been wonderful talking to you, of course. I'm so grateful. in the episode description you'll find a link to a playlist of our favorite margo price tracks as well as her latest album hard-headed woman be sure to check out youtube.com slash broken record podcast to see all of our video interviews and be sure to follow us on instagram at the broken record pod you can follow us on twitter at broken record broken record is produced and edited by leah rose with marketing help from eric sandler and jordan mcmillan Our engineer is Ben Talladeh.
1:10:08Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.
1:10:38The more you learn about your favorite artists, the more you want to know. Claude helps you keep digging, finding new threads and rabbit holes to explore. Whether it's discovering deeper meaning behind a detail in an interview, or figuring out the influence behind an artist's particular era. Claude thinks with you to find the next clue. If you can't get enough of the stories behind your favorite music and artists, Claude will help you discover new layers you didn't know existed. Try Claude for free at Claude.ai slash brokenrecord.
1:11:32session reviews. Visit BetterHelp.com for 10 % off your first month. Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty, if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them.
1:12:08Machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. This is an iHeart Podcast.
From the publisher
Margo Price’s new album, Hard Headed Woman, was recorded in the heart of Nashville at the legendary RCA Studio A—the very place where the “Nashville Sound” was born, and where greats like Merle Haggard, Dolly Parton, and Charley Pride have all recorded. It’s the perfect setting for Margo, who’s as much a student of country’s rich history as she is a fan of its fearless rule breakers. She’s never taken the straight path herself, a journey she tells in her 2022 memoir, Maybe We’ll Make It.
On today’s episode, Bruce Headlam talks with Margo Price about the making of her new album and her creative partnership with her husband and longtime collaborator, Jeremy Ivey. Margo also shares her thoughts on the inauthenticity of mainstream country, and why she continues to stay committed to pouring both extreme craft and care into every song she writes.
You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite Margo Price songs HERE.
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