Matt Berninger

29:59She's, she's like, ah, it's a little too much, you know, it's like, oh gosh, you know, like kids are way more sophisticated than you think. And, and, uh, you can't like, well, I mean, it's, it's hard to say. I mean, I don't want to, like, there's guilty pleasures, but still, her favorite, favorite stuff is more complex or just like the stuff that's like blurry and weird. And it's like why kids love certain scary children's books that are just like, you can't quite figure them out. Like, why do those resonate so much? It's always the stuff that's a little creepy, a little spooky, not setting it up, you know, with an obvious, you know, satisfying thing.

30:42Like something that's a little off and a little hard to figure out. Like, what does that mean? That's the stuff that sticks with her. And so, yeah, it's really inspiring. I was like, oh, yeah, I can't. You can never phone it in and try to, like, mark it to, you know, to a demographic or anything. You really have to be honest with yourself. Are you being interesting to yourself? Because even 12-year-olds can tell when you're pandering. Do you play her music you're working on? Yeah. Yeah, I do. What does she tend to tell you? She's always excited. I mean, she does really like it. I'll play her stuff because occasionally she'll not like something.

31:27and she's definitely not being nice. Because she sees, well, Corinne and I talk about it all the time. So she sees how not precious I am. And she sees how both of us tear apart TV shows and tear apart movies. And we're cruel to stuff. Just because that's what you do. Yeah, sounds like my house. Yeah. Because when something's great, it has to be celebrated. And the mystery of why something is great, you just have to dig into it. It really is easier to talk shit about something than describe how incredible something is. Yeah. I mean, mostly when I'm writing, I'm just trying to avoid being terrible.

32:12I mean, you try to write something and it's terrible. It's like you try to sing a melody. It's like, oh, it's terrible. It's like, wait, maybe something there. and then you find and so it's always for me it's always a i step into the ugly you know i just step out and it's always ugly or it's always it's very rarely a lyric or even a melody ever ever quite it takes a lot of stepping in this way that way this way middle of an adjustment and listening over and over and throwing it away like when i i write you know i'll put in a sketch from those guys and it's usually pretty simple sometimes it's not even it's just one part you know it's like you know three three or four chords like repeated and and i will i'll just start trying to sing to it and i'll just track after track layer after layer i just like i have 15 15 things that i'm just like just free associating and singing gobbledygook over uh and then i'll go back and listen and it's like most of it's all terrible and it's just like oh that one little spot is like kind of the melody is terrible or the words are terrible the lyrics are terrible it's usually melody you know i'm always like looking for melody not worrying about words and then later i will try to put words to it and i kind of write separately i'll write little bits and pieces and then i'll see if it fits in a song uh and then i'll listen to to like what it sounds like i'm saying and like go in that mode and just try to like write around what it kind of sounds like i'm saying and craft that it's it it's like i can't go about it like all different ways but almost There's never, am I like, oh, like, like step right in, like, oh, that's feeling good.

33:50And like a song comes out. It's usually like, it's always trying to avoid stuff that sounds cliche or you're trying too hard or you sound too bored or you sound too energetic. Or like, it's just a million, a million little dials, you know. But that seems good, though, because at least it's the opposite of being paralyzed. Like that's very active. Yeah. And just trying and trying and trying and kind of like reiterating. Do you have any sort of rituals or any things that you put yourself through to get into a space where it's easier to write? We had Rivers Cuomo on the show and he talked about how he tried sort of like a deprivation technique where he would lock himself in a bathroom for like two days and like not eat.

34:39Just to try and like bring about creativity that way. and that's obviously extreme but is there anything that you do like even if it's like drink a little something smoke something and then you're in this space yeah yeah i mean i don't have i don't try to force it i mean when i was in that long phase where nothing has happened i realized that like oh god if you can't just sit around it's it's weird it's like i i couldn't turn it on and and And I kept trying. And I guess if I hadn't keep trying to turn it on, it may have never come on. And so you do have to sort of, I did have to force it, I guess, eventually.

35:17I had to go to the studio. I had to go in the booth and the microphone was on. I had to try to put something down on record, you know. And it wasn't until then until it really started happening. So I did, like, just getting in there and doing it is really the only thing sometimes when it's not happening at all that you can do. I don't know, just get in front of a microphone. But again, I will say, I kind of just have to get into a comfortable place with it. And I will, most of the time I'm writing like on a couch or in bed with headphones on and like, just listen to stuff and just trying to zone out.

35:53Yeah. And sometimes I'll smoke some weed. Sometimes I'll, you know, I don't. Yeah, I'll drink a little bit of wine sometimes like that. But I kind of I like it in the mode where, you know, iced tea and weed works really great, you know, and kind of in the middle of the day, in the middle of the day, and those weird moments, those kind of like... Like light up or downer. Yeah, just a light... I try to just get... I don't write well when I'm loaded. I mean, sometimes, sometimes. Have you ever recorded or written or recorded something when you're just loaded and you probably think it sounds really, really good, or maybe it's really deep?

36:28What is that experience like? Oh my God, I don't know. That's a good question. I'm trying to... It's hard to... I mean, yeah, I used to, my favorite thing in the world to do was get a six pack and a pack of cigarettes and listen to records and i have a notebook and just like just filling notebooks and just writing and writing writing and listening and just and and it was just like this is great just what can i say it just it was it was so much fun but i but i don't do it like that anymore just because it's like i feel like shit if i drink drink or smoke that much stuff you know and so so yeah it's a it's a healthier thing and and i do it's it's good to ride a to ride bike and i'll smoke some weed and ride my bike and and and get in the mode and if i get in the mode i'll be i'll be pulling over every two minutes to like right just to text myself a little thing a little lyric or a little line so that's that's kind of how it works like i like to get into kind of meditative rhythmic zone i won't sit there and try to like craft architect a song i'll like i'll get a little bit I like, and then I'll sing it over and over and over again.

37:35And, you know, on a loop and just, just kind of, just practicing the rhythm of a, of a, of a, you know, practicing a swing. You just got to keep doing it until you get the kind of rhythm right. And the tone of it, right. And I'll do that. And that's probably cause I'm, you're stoned and you just got in that mode. You can, you can marvel at the same Lego like for a while, but it's good. But you managed to kind of, you know, get that stone just right. So when you, when you're going to put it into the, into the, you know, another brick in the wall, whatever, it's like, you got to get that brick just right.

38:07And other times it's, then you're like, okay, now you've, I've filled this, this sketch is only three minutes long, but I've got 17 different melody options, right? It's like, there's. Wow. Are they all original melodies? Like, how do you know they don't come from? I don't know. You would hope they don't, but it seems like it was just sort of a natural thing to happen. I don't know. You just thought it's a weird thing. There'd be like, you can start almost anywhere. It's like, I mean, I used to think like, okay, here's a guitar. Here's some guitar chords and a beat and a rhythm. It's like, okay, well, there's only so many things I can do.

38:39I learned longer. I was like, Oh shit. You can, you may, you may feel like you're cornered in with something. It's like, you can start anywhere on it. You can like you, you, it's almost infinite. Not how many, I mean, you can, you can start on a note that rubs against whatever notes are there and and play with that that way it's like you can you can put any kind of color onto any kind of canvas and try you know sometimes it's just it's just not a it just doesn't feel right you know it just doesn't feel the personality of it like i always talk about the personality of the songs it's just like yeah the personality doesn't feel like me you know or i didn't feel like i wasn't in that zone i can't i can't quite Even though I like that personality, but it's just like, that's not what I need now.

39:22That's not the character I need to talk to right now. You know, that's what the songs are like. They're like a partner that you have to sort of like dance with. And some people you like Aaron Rhythm with. Like, you know, some sketches that Aaron sent me ended up, you know, on other people's records and are huge hits. You know, it's like. Oh, like what's an example of that? I don't know. There's a bunch of them. I think Cardigan and Willow and some other ones, I had been taken a whack at some ideas at one point. Those were in a batch that I was like, I couldn't do anything to. And I still, it's like, I've listened to those.

40:04I've studied those songs. It's like, oh, look what she did with those songs. Right. I was going to say, yeah, like that must be interesting. Yeah. because I've got things like that are just really different melody and rhythm places that like totally different songs and it's like that's one of those things that's really really really kind of fun about songs and what we were talking about before like for example when we when I go in and say like okay here's you know By Your Side by Sade I mean you could learn it first you could learn it and then you get okay that's that song but like to kind of like try do a song that's kind of in the it's like really really hard to match a zone of a thing you know it's kind of I mean you can kind of match it but it's like do you mean if you were to try and cover it or make something in a similar vein you can cover but like even covering songs does not mean that song's going to have any of that magic that that bridge that that one did it's weird so I'm saying it's like i'm never nervous about somebody saying oh you stole that from like like maybe yeah maybe like that every little every single i mean everything that you hear is is taken and recrafted and it's not even like they try hard it's like it's kind of impossible to like you change one little thing everything starts to change you know um so i was listening to the Miley Cyrus Flowers and she even talks about what was the it was like it's her biggest song I think Flowers now and it's like she was sort of ripping off the Bruno Mars song or something no be your man I want to be your man or something like that his his biggest song his like a billion and a half you know listens and like oh yeah there's there's that little section right there I mean, the lyrics are, I mean, flowers, rhyming flowers with hours and hand with sand are all there.

42:04You know, she could definitely just like took all that and, you know, and she talks about it as the best way to approach it. Because like it's the other ones, they're both giant, massive songs. And you're like, oh, yeah, there's that little part where like, oh, yeah, you can hear that note on that thing. There's that little fragment that definitely was taken from that. But I don't like, I don't like that's, that's how everything's made, you know, kind of like, I, I, I think that's, and so I think I do that probably more than I realized, but it's usually, I often sing other people's lyrics to music just because it's impossible.

42:40often songs tempo and time signature or chords or whatever one lyrics will do you just it forces you to change everything around you know just uh and you change melody and everything changes and then and then you find your own you know and then those those words that you started with somebody just just just just disappear and your own things just sort of grow in the cracks of of that you made around it. I don't know. It's, it's, uh, the process is usually incredibly fun really. And, um, that's why I like in that phase where I just like, I was heartbroken over, over the loss of my love for it. That was such a bummer.

43:17Like to, like to not for even music, not, not to give me that thrill or that serotonin or that endorphin or that little stuff. We'll be back after another quick break with more from Leah Rose and Matt Berninger.

43:34I firmly believe when it comes to the holidays, you fall into one of two camps. Someone who loves holiday music, or someone who won't admit they love holiday music. There's something about a voice you love singing that familiar opening phrase, maybe it's Donny Hathaway, maybe it's Mariah Carey, that just flips a switch, and you're instantly back into that warm and cozy headspace only the holidays can bring. For me, that feeling pairs perfectly with a cup of Starbucks caramel brulee latte. That's their signature espresso with steamed milk and a rich caramel brulee flavor topped with whipped cream and a crunchy caramel brulee topping.

44:06It's like the sound of the season, but in drink form. And that's really what this season's about. Little moments of pairing, little moments of connection. Sharing a song, sharing a story, sharing a caramel brulee latte. Because this season and every season, together, is the best place to be. Come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks. If you've ever hired for your small business, you know how important it is to find the right person. That's why LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant so you can feel confident you're finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else.

44:39The best part is those great candidates are already on LinkedIn. In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30 % more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. That's a big deal when every hire counts. Hiring doesn't have to be complicated. With LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant, you can skip the confusing steps in recruiting jargon. It filters through applicants based on criteria you've set for your role and surfaces only the best matches so you're not stuck sorting through a mountain of resumes. When you have a business to run, you don't have hours to spend on hiring and you don't want to just wait around hoping the right person stumbles upon your job.

45:16That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant suggests 25 great fit candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. Hire right the first time. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash broken, then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs' new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's linkedin.com slash broken to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

45:44Every December, we start singing at church, around the fire, in our cars with the radio turned up. But have we ever stopped to ask, where did our favorite Christmas carols come from? And what makes them so magical? I think it's probably one of the most perfect tunes to play and to sing. The voices are converging, they're adding this more complex and chromatic harmony, and it gives us that climactic arrival point. Hark is a podcast about the meaning and the making of Christmas carols. Get into the spirit of the season and listen to Hark, the stories behind our favorite Christmas carols. Available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at americamagazine.org.

46:35We're back with the rest of Leah Rose's conversation with The National's Matt Berninger. Is it true that there's sort of like an unwritten rule in the band that people don't directly ask you about the meaning behind your lyrics? I didn't know. They don't. They almost never do. I don't think they ever do. Does anyone ask you? Fans do and journalists do. And there's no rule. But no, the guys usually don't. Yeah, they don't. I don't think, I don't, I'd have to think about when any of those guys ever asked me. Do you care what they think about your lyrics? Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Of course. Yeah. I'm always trying to impress them.

47:22Yeah. Is there some, when you're writing, is there somebody in your mind who you're trying to impress or you're writing for? Yeah. Those guys and Corinne, you know, and, and, and my daughter and, and, and the peers, you know? Yeah. I want to impress all the Walkmen. I want to impress Phoebe Bridgers. I want Taylor Swift to be as impressed by me as I am by her. And so, yeah, I want to be loved. I want to be adored. But that's such a funny thing. It's like if you try to write with that purpose, you're going to sound desperate. So to be truly adored and for your favorite artist to actually really like what you're doing, you have to do weird shit that is maybe uncomfortable and scary and maybe isn't going to work.

48:20That's what's going to impress the Walkman. That's what's going to impress my wife. And that's what the band wants. It's like the band doesn't want, our band doesn't necessarily want a hit if it's not real, if it doesn't feel like kind of real to us. I was wondering with Corinne, like when she hears things that you've written, if you're writing about an old love or loving someone, missing somebody, is she ever like, who are you talking about? No, she's, when we first started dating, I was in the middle of writing all these songs. you know a bunch of songs you know that that she kind of like right away was kind of like so into all of it like the writing of songs so it's always been that way and and i've also been mostly writing about her you know it's like or the band or yeah but then this like sometimes songs are not autobiographical obviously but they're but they're sort of exercises in looking into a window or looking over the edge of something.

49:31And like Eucalyptus or whatever is obviously a song about splitting up things. And I think it's kind of a funny song about like, you know, like all the things, like how do you split up your water subscription, you know? but so you're writing writing about breaking up as a way of sort of like of of confronting your fears you know it's like and like once upon a poolside and like a lot of those record is is really like the fear of maybe the band being over and it's very romantic generally there'll be bits and pieces of the songs that like and it's usually much later like after the record's out and after finally it's all finished we're like yeah i'll listen to that again and you know what you know like it'll be way later but in the middle of the creative process if it's good if it's like oh that's great like that's all we that's how we ever talk about sometimes sometimes much later once the art is finished we'll be like maybe we should talk about that a little bit you know yeah i was wondering yeah is there ever an instance where you write a lyric and it's the beginning of something that might almost be subconscious but then it it ultimately comes true later i mean what you made me think of is maybe not what you're asking but i i do i do worry and i did feel that maybe all of this writing of all these making these big you know these beautiful things out of uncomfortable feelings that i've been doing for 20 years and you know we're on this our ninth record or whatever and plus all the other like i mean so So writing hundreds of songs about some of this stuff, I was like, am I manifesting this character?

51:13Am I becoming, did I create this sad sack? Because I write about it so much. Do you think you did? Where did you land with that question? It's in between. It's like, yes, but I also write all these songs because I am that way and have that way. And that's how I survive. That's how I feel better about life is because I make a little something, some kind of semi enjoyable and kind of fun and beautiful and moving out of this ugly feeling, you know, that's what all great love songs are, you know, it's like, it's like, it's like sad, ugly, uncomfortable feelings to melody, you know, and that's that all the best love songs are kind of crushing.

52:01And so I think, I do think I'm a much healthier person having written all this stuff than have not, you know. I do know that like other people, like listening to like we talked about the artists that we've been talking about, including, like for example, go back to Tom Waits. I know that Tom Waits made me mentally healthier, you know, made me a happier person, made me like myself more. and so did Nick Cave so all my favorite artists you know make me like myself a little bit more because they're great about about writing about what they hate about themselves and I can identify with that and I was like if that person hates themselves like just can say that that terrible thing about themselves and make it so beautiful then like oh maybe maybe I can make something out of all the things I hate about myself so yeah but then at a certain time you know the point of like all these years especially getting on stage and performing it and doing it you know and then and then and then and then having like a fan base which is like incredible like i have fans fans of songs i wrote you know it's like it's it's sometimes you take for granted how like most people don't have fans of songs that they wrote you know it's like an incredible thing strangers that you've never met like these songs that you wrote these things you wrote about your own feelings you know like that's so lucky you know and then when people like say how much they get out of it and you see people having these moments and you see people write to you and tell you like this and i get a lot of letters that people say like this this stuff actually helped me through a really rough time and i'm like it helped me through a rough time and then i think of all the other artists that helped me that their records helped me and i'm like oh god yeah this is all really good like this is a really good thing to do yeah you're like in service to other people A little bit, but mostly myself, you know, mostly like I'm doing it for my own mental health mostly, but it is working for other people too.

54:00It's helping other people too, for sure. And that's really good. But then it's like the night after night after night after night after night after night and touring and being all that. And then you get weird. You just get weird. How does it get weird? I heard you talk about that being on tour can get weird. And I'm extremely curious about what you mean about that. honestly i think it's just mostly exhaustion but then i think it's i think it's the turning on and then turning off it's like to turn for me to to get into show mode to turn on to do that for like a two hour you know give or take performance like it's not it doesn't come naturally it's not like i'm like i can't wait to get out there it's like it's bracing it's i have to i have to it's on my mind all day i have to it's on my mind it's like it's it's like um every day is sort of like you're doing like a mini wedding you got to get ready like to you know you're just trying to like cannot get ready for it it's a and you have to entertain you have to you don't know you might wake up in a great mood but then like something like you might buy by 7 30 you know half an hour before you're supposed to go on stage something you just might just be in the most miserable place for whatever reason just and you're the front man so it's like all eyes are on you you can't kind of just like play the back and play bass yep yeah you know it's like you and you give it your all you go super hard yeah and i won't complain it's cool i mean like i i it's a funny thing i i'm i'm often miserable in the spotlight but i'm usually like like like no no over here you know it's like it's like no don't look at me look at me this is my best side yeah I'm definitely a don't look at me, look at me type of person.

55:40And I don't have to get in a zone. And sometimes you drink too much. And we don't have any really terrible, terrible habits. But like, oh, yeah. How many times I've been like, now I know what cocaine is for. You know, it's like, this is why people do cocaine, because they got to go do that. Yeah, you can flip the switch. Yeah, you can flip it. But I don't do that. But I do, you know, I'll have a few glasses of wine. Sometimes I won't, but those shows are always like really, honestly, the shows where I won't have any, I was like, oh, those are all. If I don't drink anything, then I'm too inside my head.

56:19I think one or two glasses of wine is probably the best. Yeah. When I was talking to Aaron, he said something at some point about, he's like, yeah, sometimes I think like, I can't believe I'm 46 and I'm still in a band. It's so embarrassing. Yeah. Do you have any similar feelings like that? Yeah. No, no. We always do. I mean, like we always listen, we play songs. We're like, does this sound like we're all trying to like wear skinny jeans? You know, it's like, and even though many of us still wear skinny jeans. But there is that, the whole pandering thing is like, we just can't do it. You know, like we cannot, like, I can't, I can only write a certain way and i mean to answer questions like yeah we're often like feeling like we don't want to seem like we're faking it or we're if being on stage singing a song that you don't really kind of believe or don't or you know doesn't feel good so i think if we if we started making songs that we felt were like ah well we're kind of just putting out records to service you know to service something a fan base or whatever right like it definitely wouldn't be be enough so obviously we're always asking us like are these songs worth putting out is it i know that like we it's time for another record or it's time for another tour you know according to the the the healthy economy of a functioning band and all that kind of stuff you know but that has never been the thing that's ever ever gotten us anywhere in terms of motivating us to make songs and it's just the songs it's like if a song we like it and we're like i like that's a that's a good song it's a beautiful song that's why we're still a band like that's enough to yeah i won't be able to be the kind of performer like mc jagger is you know because why i mean and i think he's genuine you know through and through he is the you know yeah but uh but i think my showman thing is like i think has to to age and evolve with me meaning meaning i used to lose my mind i used to smash stuff i used to like you know i would throw full bottles of wine 30 feet in the air you know in above the band above me and like and like in controlled ways where i would like let it smash to pieces like right around me you know and like and i you know and going out into the crowd and and i yeah you go deep out into the crowd yeah and i and i do love that i might still do that but if i if i feel like i'm doing that because if it's part of the show i want to kill myself you know it's like or because it's expected or it's your shtick or something yeah and and all that stuff kind of becomes a shtick.

59:14And I think some of the self-disgust was like I was disgusted with my own shtick, you know, like writing about myself or like the idea of like doing that show and going out into the crowd when I was like, that is not the person I am right now. I can't go sing these songs and go into a crowd and entertain people. I can't even, I can barely, I can't watch TV, you know? I can barely, I'm nonverbal. I can't be an entertainer, you know? So like some shows I have to sort of just embrace whatever, wherever I am, you know? And so that's not always a great show. I don't know. Maybe it is. I like watching uncomfortable performers do nothing.

59:55You know, I find that riveting, but yeah. So, so there, there is, there's a, there is a, there is a little bit of that. It was like, if it feels like we're, we're, we're going through the motions and, and trying to, you know, put on the show if it feels like you know phantom of the opera you know yeah after a while i right that's this is it just it's a bummer i know that female artists have to deal with this a lot but when you've gone out into the crowd like that has anything sketchy ever happened to you like yeah it gets weird and like it gets it gets weird out there that's why i'm like i don't know if i like doing this anymore it mostly it's almost all love and people just like that's the other thing It's like, it's people just crush together and sing and you're getting, and you're singing their hearts out and it's people having an incredible moment.

1:00:48And I am too, but then sometimes, but, but it gets scary, you know, it gets scary when I'm going to, when just like that many bodies and the crush of people. So that, and then obviously there's a lot of people that just want to hang on you and just like, want to, like, you want to spend, like, like spend the whole time with you. And like, I was like, you know what, this is, I'm, I'm doing this kind of for me and for lots of people. It's not just for you to hang on me and follow me. I don't like when people follow me the whole time and try to... And people often try to pick me up because... And I never let that.

1:01:20Crowd surfing is not... I hate it. Because they can drop you. You can just fall into a hole. It's not bad. It just looks so stupid to me. When you're up there trying to sing and you're being carried i mean i know i mean i've done it a bunch of times it is like a it's a bucket list you gotta do it you know you're just feeling like such an idiot i don't know i mean certain bands if i were bling wet 82 or whatever yeah hell yeah but not i can't i just it's not it just doesn't feel right but um anyway so like all that kind of stuff is like you just have to constantly try to stay yourself and that changes that's the thing it changes if you're trying to stay true to who you were when you were 30 or 25 or 19 or whatever, you're kind of going to look kind of silly.

1:02:07Then again, will I even know? Will I even know that I look silly? I know, right. Probably not. Well, your daughter will tell you. I'm praying she does. So far, she's been pretty kind. She's like... I mean, she has seen some videos that we've attempted to make some videos, and she's like, uh-uh. She's like... Really? Yeah, the thing like that. She says, she's like, you look like you're trying to be all that. You know, it's like, she's like, it ruins this. It's a fair criticism. She's like, it kind of ruins the song for me. I was like, oh, you got to kill that video. You know, I know. It's good.

1:02:43Thank God. Thank God for her. How do you feel about the Sad Dad music label? How does that sit with you? I don't care. I mean, it's appropriate. I cannot. I cannot. I mean, like, yeah. definitely like it's i i i totally understand it and i think i i think i embrace it yeah yeah it feels fine i mean i i it's it's not it's not how i would define myself you know entirely but that's a little part of me i see that's a little part of of everybody i think it was something i think the funny thing is like like my daughter i think like loves the sad dads like we've we We sell hoodies that say sad dads on it.

1:03:30She's into it. It's cool. For some reason, I think it's cool to be a sad dad. But I also can see why other artists that get the sad, and mostly it's young women, get the sad label, how that can be infuriating. But for me, I'm like, I've earned it. Yeah, I cannot say that that does not fit. Well, I read that Pitchfork wrote, the national aren't dad rock as much as their men's magazine rock. Oh, that's hurtful. That's kind of more sleek. No, that one's hurtful. That's hurtful? I feel like that's sleek. That's like GQ rock. I think of like Maxim when you say men's magazines. I think of like details.

1:04:19Yeah. I don't think even GQ is. I guess, yeah, GQ Rock. I don't think we're GQ Rock either. That'd be cool. I wish we were GQ Rock. I am doing an interview with GQ, I think, soon. Have you done many interviews yet for this album? No, not that many. I'm doing a lot less. I'm doing a lot less than usual. Just, yeah. A lot of it is because it's like, the stuff on this record is a little bit harder to talk about, I think, maybe. and I kind of was like, it's kind of all there on the record, you know? So, like, getting into it a little bit, digging further into it feels a little icky. But I know that's part of it and I'm happy to do it.

1:05:04But this has been delightful. Yeah, I appreciate so much you taking the time and being so thoughtful. And best wishes with the album. It's awesome. Thank you. And sounds like you have another album already ready. Maybe. We always say that. Yeah, but not unless it's going to be, it's got to be great. But so it might take some time. But thanks for doing this. This seems cool. Thanks to Matt Berninger for breaking down his songwriting process with Leah. You can hear all of our favorite national songs on a playlist at brokenrecordpodcast.com. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrell, Ben Tallade, and Eric Sandler Our editor is Sophie Crane Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries And if you like the show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app Our theme music is by Kenny Beats, and I'm Justin Richman Consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and uninterrupted ad-free listening for$4.99 a month.

1:06:15Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like the show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music is by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richman.

1:06:29This is an ad by BetterHelp. We've all had that epic rideshare experience. halfway through your best friends, and they know your aspirations to go find yourself in Portugal. It's human. We're all looking for someone to listen. But not everyone is equipped to help. With over a decade of experience, BetterHelp matches you with the right therapist. See why they have a 4.9 rating out of 1.7 million client session reviews. Visit BetterHelp.com for 10 % off your first month. Hi, this is Shirley Strawberry from the Steve Harvey Morning Show. Toyota-thon is on. So stop by your local Toyota dealer for incredible year-end deals on the cars, trucks, and SUVs known for their legendary reliability, like the stylish and efficient Camry, the ready-for-anything RAV4, or check out a rough and rugged Tacoma or Tundra, all with great financing and lease options available to qualified customers.

1:07:29Visit buyatoyota.com to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. This episode of Broken Record is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Traveling is one of life's greatest joys. Honestly, can anything be more exhilarating? Well, actually, yeah, with Chase Sapphire Reserve. It's your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. First, you will earn eight times points on all purchases through Chase Travel. And the card gets you into Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide and access to one of a kind experiences. Whether you are booking a once in a lifetime trip or your next week in escape, discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve at Chase.com slash Sapphire Reserve.

1:08:12Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.