Miguel

0:06Pushkin.

0:11Miguel, the Grammy-winning alt-R &B pioneer, is back with the new album, Chaos. His first full length in eight years. It's the latest step in a career that's always pushed the boundaries of R &B, from his 2010 debut through albums that dabbled in psychedelia, dance music, and now touches of 80s industrial, and even ranchero rhythms. On today's episode, Miguel talks with Leah Rose about his unreleased 2023 album, Viscera, and how suspending himself from piercings in his back during its rollout helped him surrender control. He also shares a story behind the controversial imagery for his single, New Martyrs.

0:47And despite collaborations with Travis Scott, Mariah Carey, and Tame Impala, Miguel explains why he's happiest just making music with his friends. This is Broken Record. Real musicians, real conversations.

1:05This is an iHeart Podcast. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Ooclas Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. That's your business, Supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com. Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the U.S. where you can see the sky.

1:46Best network based on analysis by Ukla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 1H 2025. Every great music conversation goes beyond the surface. The influence that shaped an artist's sound. The moment that changed their creative direction. The story behind the story that fans never hear. Cloud helps you discover those deeper connections, upload interviews, liner notes, or music journalism. And Cloud reveals patterns across an artist's entire journey, showing how influences become innovations. Whether you're a music journalist, passionate fan, or someone who loves understanding creative processes, Cloud matches your curiosity about what really drives great artists.

2:26Try Cloud for free at cloud.ai slash broken record. Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them. Machines that make you feel more human.

3:02Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. Here's Leah Rose in conversation with Miguel. Okay, so I want to ask you about the song New Martyrs. I'm curious how you came upon the artwork for this song. And tell me what the artwork is, how you came up with the idea, and what the thinking is behind it. So the artwork is almost like a meme because, you know, this year, I think seeing Luigi Mangione, you know, carry out what he felt was right, regardless of what it meant in terms of the law and morally, seeing how that played out and how that resonated with so many people with their anger and their angst in, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, the disenfranchised and powerless feeling of watching a political system sort of cannibalize itself right in front of you and see how corporate interest is really infiltrated and manipulated what is meant to be an equitable process, an all-inclusive process, it really is infuriating.

4:27And to see people really get behind an action that feels like vigilantism in any other case would be considered absolutely wrong, unjust. But having that context and then also understanding the story behind the personal injustice that behind the execution you know seeing how people respond to that is like even i'm like nah yeah i mean you're really putting your money before people's health you're you're overlooking your humanity for your own greed and i feel this is a something that hit me so hard that I had to really look at myself and go, I mean, am I wrong for kind of being in agreement? You know, am I wrong for feeling like he kind of did the right thing on behalf of a lot of people who've been shitted on, you know, and more importantly, like who have, you know, had their loved ones at the cost of their loved ones, of their own lives, of, you know, so real humanity, you know, at the cost of humanity.

5:35I think this is something we're going to see more and more as we continue. I think that's a domino until there's some real correction, you know, until there's some real justice established in a way to make right on things moving forward. I think that's why I have this dream where I'm like kind of like just doing what I feel is right, even though it may seem wrong. it's very much inspired by seeing that happen seeing their response and also addressing my own angst my own anger and dissatisfaction with the world as it is not just this country and so new martyrs is about that line towards the end where it's like yeah give me what's mine i think a lot of people feel that way and more and more people are going to feel that way more so what's behind that is like do right by me and right by us right by the world do the right thing because right now there's a lot of wrong being done it's a lot of wrong and it's not it's not like it hasn't been that that way and what we know to be human history and our but it certainly feels as if it is insurmountable or is um yeah maybe because we can tune in on everything at all times whenever we want.

7:00But that feeling, I think a lot of people feel that way. And that's what inspired, that's how I feel. And that's what inspired the song. How do you toe the line between bringing in these bigger issues? Like I know you've been active in issues around immigration and mass incarceration, but you're also known for making sensual, sexy, baby-making music. Like, how do you toe the line and talk about both of these things at the same time? I remind myself that it's a human experience and people who only focus on or who primarily focus on, you know, speaking out about injustice, activism, artists and musicians who do those things are also human beings.

7:48And they also, you know, they have their own sexual life. They have their own romantic relationships and their experience with those things. And it's their prerogative to talk about those things when they want. And it's their choice not to or to. And this for me, I think, is probably top of mind because this is the world that I'm inheriting, that I've inherited. And I'm also in a position in my age and my experience to hold myself accountable. And I can't not do that. I'm not 21 or 18 when I wrote Quickie. It's a different thing, you know. And so, yeah, these things have become increasingly important in my mind.

8:31And I think naturally that that is why it's becoming more important to in my music. Do you ever question, like if there's someone you're working with, like a producer or whoever's in the studio with you, do you ever turn to them and say like, oh, is this, am I going too far with this? Definitely. Is this a downer? Yeah. How does that work? I mean, it's pretty much like that. I'm like, is this too much? The great thing about, I work with my friends. I think I've learned that that's the best way to maintain like that sense of play the permission to explore I just want to work with my friends man I've done that I've done the transactional thing and that shit sucks all the time one it's rarely a collaboration because it's easy to do shit you know remotely so it's not like we're getting in a room and we're really collaborating at least not in my experience And when there's no friendship in the middle, if that's not the thing, then you got to go do some whack shit like promote a song that you would never, ever do on your own.

9:43It would never come from your expression. It's not your point of view. And to a degree, I can appreciate stepping into someone else's world and remaining in your point of view and in your style and having a presence in a new way. I think there's beautiful times when that's happened. but most times it i think in the past when i've seen that it's been like people who really fuck with each other like they can go have they can go have a drink they like the same kind of movies or have something at the core that's like oh no like i really fuck with you what happens when it's not like that it's like now you got to go support not just the song but like the video and then the promo behind it that turns out to be mad corny and then you find out the person is really just a politician and then you know what I mean you're like you don't you could care less like it's easy to become just some shit you don't want to do so yeah I work with my friends and in a room when I'm feeling like is this too much they just be like do that no just do your shit like just do it do it do it all and and most times the things that don't fit naturally will sort of kind of like They just get pushed to the side.

10:58How do you get in the proper headspace to record and to express yourself and to be vulnerable or to be open? Have you found anything over the course of your career that really gets you there? Whether it's having a drink or push-ups or whatever it is, a certain time of night. Have you found anything that gets you there? I mean, in different stages, it's been different things. For sure, alcohol was a big one. I mean, a little tequila in the past was it. Before it was whiskey. Kaleidoscope Dream is like whiskey and... Weed. 40s. Nope. I don't know why I was drinking 40s. I was like pounding 40s and tequila.

11:46And Wild Heart actually is tequila into mezcal. So I was finding mezcal. and smoking for sure wild heart i'm like smoking a lot of weed i also like i think it's really it's really interesting how drugs have influenced music along in these different periods of time i mean like jazz it's like speed you know what i mean like when jazz was a heroin right it's like depending right or you listen to grunge music and you're like yeah heroin is this it's a heroin time you're listening to how crack and cocaine influenced you know hip-hop and its its play in that time frame and the emerging artists drugs and alcohol and all kinds of illicit activity have always been a part of music and creativity whether it be fine art or music and fine art for me getting in that headspace has been different in each era this time this album I mean, I still love to drink.

12:44I hate to even say this, but like, if I'm out and there's a photo of me, I will guarantee you nine times out of 10, I have, I love, I love Miss Scott. Yeah, it's social lubricant. Oh my God. And I'm very much a like introvert, extrovert. Yeah, same. I can do the extroverted thing. I'm very much like to be. For a time. For a time. The social meter is not a large social meter, but it exists. And I do think that a little mezcal with sparkling water and a lime kind of extends the battery a little bit. That sounds nice. It sounds incredible right now. But yeah, you can go out for a period, but then you want to rush home and get into the beanbag and just chill and just reflect.

13:33I will be right in this room with a record. you know what I mean in a conversation with a handful of like really fun interesting people and I'm good yeah yeah no I I feel that very deeply what are you listening to these days like is there any new old music you've discovered or what have you been reaching for new old well this album in this period I've been really going back and and like leaning into all all my like more alternative tastes and influences um going back to pixie's records going back to that whole grunge era so all of nirvana all of sound garden all of that sort of like you know seattle area yeah yeah then jumping into some of like jungle stuff has been a big one and then like trying to find ways to infuse rhythms and chord progressions that just are nostalgic or styles that are that are nostalgic to my to my youth so cumbia is one of those ones where you'll hear a little bit of that and like ranchera you'll get a little bit of that in chaos i think overall what i was searching for in listening to music and and influence was like anything that felt dissonant I felt like there's a rub there that created the tension that I was looking for.

14:59Do you still feel in a place where you're recognizing and thinking about chaos, or has that all been exercised out through the album? No, on the contrary, I want to wield it more effectively. I mean, my thinking on it is this, like, it's just about conditions to grow, or conditions in general. if it's not growing it's dead shout out to lauren hill i mean one of the most poignant things that she said in an interview is like if it's not growing it's dead and it's the truth and for me what i've realized is that in many ways i think i've i believe in my core that we all need a little chaos to grow maybe i'm wrong i know for me that's the outside of my depth that bowie talks about is the place where an artist really can thrive it's the unknowing it's the uncertainty that pushes it outside of that comfort zone that means we need to stretch in not ways that we necessarily know but that we need and um and so chaos I think in my life this album represents my my acknowledgement of the chaos that I've created in my life.

16:18I'm making peace with it in a lot of ways in order to better utilize it for my purpose. And while I'm here and I want to continue to curate chaos in my life. How are you going to do that? How do you curate chaos in your life right now? Like intentionally, like mess up a situation just to get the feel that feeling and kind use that for growth? Is that what that means? Not toxic chaos. We don't want any more toxic chaos, though old habits die hard. And I think me stepping into my adulthood and my responsibility is one way that I ensure that the chaos that I do curate in my life is really intentional.

17:05so I look at ways of like how do I infuse something that is not obvious and is not normal or natural so taking I mean a simple way is like like I love that Portis head on three like switch up their whole all of their instruments instead of everyone is playing a different instrument you know what I mean that's chaos to me because no one is in a comfort zone when it's not you know what I mean So I think of chaos in my life in that way. We definitely don't want any more toxicity. Yes. We don't need it. I don't think that's necessary. No. Especially not when you're approaching 40. Things are different.

17:51Look, and isn't it? It's a crazy thing because... I know for me, I want all stability. I'm like, like I said, I want peace in my life in general. but again controlled chaos in the right places whether it's like shaking up my team and infusing someone who's not in the music business in a role that maybe is adjacent in a different field you know in a different yeah field yeah so that we have fresh thinking that we're we're not approaching things in yeah with the constructs of of the status quo in mind you know it's like the chaos that means we're breaking rules, but with a purpose. Yes. So did you realizing your place in the chaos or maybe creating it in some way where you weren't completely aware of it, did you realize that through just natural aging or was it through like therapy work?

18:53I know you're about to turn 40 and this album's coming out on your 40th birthday. Yeah. That seems like a really big milestone. How are you thinking about turning 40? I think for whatever reason, I wrote this song when I was much younger that we never put out called Hard Way, which is like, I always learn the hard way. Actually, no, it's on the first album. What am I talking about? It's on the first album. See, my brain is oxidizing as we speak.

19:24There's a song on the first album called Hard Way. And it's like, I always learn the hard way. And I hate to have like maybe put that out in that energy out there. I've accepted that. But in some ways, I've been able to see things before they happen and change course. But in a lot of ways, you know, I have learned the hard way. And I've been lucky to not learn the hardest way. But I've got a few bruises and scars, you know, that, you know, are reminders. and um i think that's the that's the journey of life anyways it's like hunter s thompson like not wanting to reach the end pristine and clean but with fire shooting out of the back and screeching barely crossing the threshold i think something about that has always been the way that i imagine my life kind of going and thankfully it hasn't meant that i have reached the finish line prematurely.

20:27And I've been here at this point. I want to make sure it doesn't happen prematurely. But I do know that it serves like a healthy guy. Like, we're that's the key. Seem. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you seem like healthy mind and body like you're thinking about it. I mean, having the opportunity to do this every day, you know, and to express oneself and one's emotions, I think is a key. And for me, it's been the true meditation of my life. And I found, you know, there's other tools that are super helpful. I think musicians and artists and of all mediums do find real solace and peace when they're able to create and they find that connection to the higher thing.

21:18But overall, like, I don't want to paint myself into any corner where I'm out here just causing havoc or anything like that. But I do know that I've had to learn some hard lessons, like anyone in the world. And I think I'm at a place in my life where I want to be real intentional about the path that's taken that I really want to take. And ones that actually are worth my time or worthy of the effort, worthy of the risk, as opposed to kind of going into things. too haphazardly. We'll be back with more from Miguel after the break. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal.

22:07T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Oocla Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged. With a network that adapts in real time, your business stays operating at peak capacity, even in times of high demand. With built-in security on the first nationwide 5G advanced network, you keep private data private for you, your team, your clients.

22:45And with seamless coverage from the world's largest satellite to mobile constellation, your whole team can text and stay updated even when they're off the grid. That's your business, Supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com. Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the U.S. where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ukla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 1H 2025. The greatest music stories aren't always in the songs themselves. during the late night studio sessions, the chance encounters, and the cultural moments that shaped entire movements. For music lovers who find themselves going down rabbit holes about their favorite artists, Claude, an AI thinking partner, helps you explore those deeper questions.

23:33Whether you're wondering about the connections between different scenes, trying to understand what drove a particular creative period, or exploring how social movements influenced sound, Claude works through these complex cultural puzzles with you. It's built for people who know that understanding music means understanding the human stories behind it. Claude doesn't just compile facts. It helps you see patterns across decades of music history, ask the kinds of follow-up questions that reveal deeper truths, and works through the nuanced relationships between artists, movements, and moments. Whether you're a music journalist, industry professional, or someone who just lives for understanding the stories behind the sounds, Claude matches your level of curiosity about what really drives great art.

24:15Try Claude for free at Claude.ai slash broken record and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty, if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them.

24:53Machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. Was you getting into the suspension thing where you were hanging from your piercings? That seems very chaotic to me. Is that along the same lines of thinking for you? You know, the trippy part about that is that even physiologically what that does is it actually, well, first and foremost, it's like an adrenaline rush, right? And something about that is very calming. I found it to be really meditative and not chaotic. I mean, doing suspension has a different purpose and meaning for every person that has ever done it or that practices it.

25:44I wouldn't say that I practice suspension. But the purpose of doing suspension at the time was to open up a conversation that is relevant to this album. And that is like, what is my relation to pain? Why do I carry pain with pride? What pain am I carrying that I'm not really addressing or acknowledging? And how is that a part of the story I've written about myself? How does that enabling? How is it fueling? And how is it like holding me back? It was about having that conversation and kind of like giving it a visceral reference. but it was all about understanding pain and wanting to talk about it publicly, which I believe we carried over into this album.

26:39What happened with that album? It evolved. It definitely evolved. Viscera was initially meant to be Bad Habits, Sad Anthems, which I still think is a fucking ill-ass title. Yeah. and then it it became not just me wanting to just do an album of like kind of like the antithesis of what people know most about my music and i think that is like feel good romantic sensual dreamy to kind of go like all right how do i shake shake this up and and make space for the other side of the coin which is like that i do have bad habits that there are sad anthems and And I wanted to do a whole album about that. And I think in that process, it was getting real heavy.

27:32It was like too, even for me, I was like, maybe some of this stays in the vault. Yeah. Did anything from that album carry over to the new album? Yeah. I would say a good quarter of that record was actually kind of like became What is Chaos. Yeah. The album is so good, by the way, or what I've heard of the album is so great. That's really kind. Thank you so much. Thank you. I love the title track. Tell me about just the overall sound for it and what your vision was for it, how it came together. It started out, I'd come across a children's choir on Instagram. And they had done, do you remember that?

28:15The THX, it was a crescendo, but it was kind of like. Yes. You go to the movies, for those of you who haven't been to the movies back in the 90s or before that, as you intro a movie, they wanted to flex the sound in the room. And very often the companies would have an audio kind of intro to give you a sense of the ability and how incredible the sound system was. and I think it's THX, please correct me. I'm sure someone will afterwards. But it was one of those companies that it had this beautiful crescendo, a chordal crescendo, and these kids were doing that crescendo, but with their voices, a children's choir doing it, a glissando up.

29:01That's so cool. Or a port upwards. And I was like, man, this is so cool. And I asked the children, so I asked them to come, and they did, and they basically sang this part. it's just a uh uh uh uh then uh and they do like a whole that whole gliss report uh and i just was like this is the coolest shit and i was like we got to use that kind of sampled that first and then uh i programmed like a rough drum section that i felt was like i wanted it to drive because I had this idea about talking about just chaos and what chaos is placed in my life. And it just felt kind of, the notes felt like they were giving me that.

29:51It's dramatic. You know, it feels very dramatic. It is. Kind of, it kind of pulls you in. It's a little bit haunting too. It's a little bit creepy. Yeah. It was just interesting, the emotional context of visually watching them really be in it and like kind of the joy they're getting out of performing this thing. but then how it feels, how the notes feel against each other. And I thought that was the perfect place. And it sparked this idea that, you know, in my life, I've subconsciously, I think, curated chaos in one way or the other in my life. And I think I've finally kind of come to a place where I'm understanding what that's about.

30:29I've never really taken time to really look at it. And that really set off the whole idea. It was like, man, there's a childlike part of me that plays into this, and there's a joy that I get out of it that I don't understand. And that's why the first line is, like, I think I'm better under pressure. And that sort of sets the stage for the album, you know, and the rest kind of unfolds as it goes. Cool. You mentioned earlier that for the title track, you made sort of what sounds like a sketch of the beat. and then you passed it to Ray Brady. That's one of my best friends. And we've worked on this album a lot together.

31:13So we produced the song together. But the drum programming specifically is like, that's his, I mean, he's incredible across the board. But I mean, the way the drums hit, that's definitely his shit. I learned a lot working with him through this album. So cool. On the technical side as a producer. Is that normally how it goes for you? Do you normally make sketches of the music and then pass it to him? Or what's the process usually like? It varies. Kind of starting with Kaleidoscope Dream, I really got in my executive producer bag and really wanted to focus on the overall vision of the album and what that was communicating overall.

31:58I didn't produce though I had I was very much involved in the sonic nature of Kaleidoscope Dream and that kind of gave me a lot of confidence to actually use my own production the only song that I produced on Kaleidoscope Dream is Adorn and that's like top to bottom so it was kind of the first time I had like I was like alright fuck it they fuck with it but I wasn't sure if it was going to work commercially or anything like that. Like if it was going to feel professional enough or what have you. Really? Yeah. So that's the first time I really like my production was released professionally and actually was, you know, became something that was a success commercially.

32:44Wow. So yeah, does that make you feel like as a producer, does that validate your skills and your ear? Like what did that do to you as an artist knowing how well that song did? I mean, it's definitely encouraging, but there's absolute levels. There are levels to this shit. And the great thing about me is like, I'm not so focused on how things sound sonically as much as I care about how they feel, you know? And I think there's a bit of ignorance that I always want to keep. I kind of like that. I'm like, I don't really know what I did there, but it just felt right. And that's maybe my own idiosyncrasy or whatever, but there's definite levels to this.