In short
Mo Priem Shakur’s insider account of Tupac Shakur’s life and legacy, framed by Black liberation activism, family history, and hip-hop/community building. He argues that many Tupac narratives are demeaning or conspiratorial, and insists Pac’s work came from genuine social awareness.
Guests
Mo Priem Shakur (Tupac’s half-brother). Background: rapper, filmmaker, record producer; raised in Black liberation activism; one of the surviving members of Outlaw Mortals and the only surviving member of Thug Life. Raised in Southside Jamaica, Queens; later served in the military; lived in Oakland/Bay Area after family relocations. His father is Matulu Shakur (described as a political prisoner connected to the Black Liberation Army and Republic of New Africa). His wife Natalia is described as highly educated (Ford Fellow; NYU master; Africana studies and Latin history).
Key claims
COINTELPRO-style tactics affected both Matulu and Pac’s circles; Matulu was not a Black Panther (Afeni is); Pac’s music stayed relevant because it addressed social issues from lived community experience; Mo Priem helped launch Pac’s early momentum.
Notable examples
Matulu’s “Most Wanted” FBI coverage; the Nyack incident leading to Matulu’s long incarceration; Mo Priem’s verse on “Feels Good” (Tony! Toni! Ton!); Pac’s Bay Area reunion and early collaborations; the Marin County fair shooting aftermath; Death Row era tensions leading Mo Priem to “gracefully bow out.”
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMo Priem Shakur Reflects on His Journey
3:14 to 6:22
Mo Priem shares his experiences growing up in the shadow of his brother Tupac.
“So being that we've lost so many, family and crew, you know, so I'm one of the few that could tell a story that have been around the longest.”
Exploring the Impact of the Shakur Family Legacy
6:22 to 11:00
The conversation delves into the political and social activism of the Shakur family.
“But all the The academic work is, you know, to her credit.”
Childhood Memories and Family Dynamics
11:00 to 14:00
Mo Priem discusses his childhood experiences and relationships within his family.
“A lot of people think that probably your childhood and Pac's childhood was just getting indoctrinated by theory all day, every day.”
Growing Up with Pac: Childhood Stories
14:00 to 27:02
Learn about the childhood experiences and bond between Mopreme and Tupac.
“And, you know, he was soaking up the game.”
Preparing for the Unexpected
28:44 to 29:32
Understanding the importance of being prepared for emergencies.
“The power goes out, your phone's at 50%, and suddenly your home is cold, dark, and you can't cook a thing.”
Reuniting with Pac
29:39 to 30:28
Mopreme shares the emotional reunion with Tupac in the Bay Area.
“one of the other wild things about your story that I always forget is that you and Pac, you know, obviously it's a blended family.”
Challenges of Living and Connecting
30:29 to 33:06
Mopreme discusses the struggles of reconnecting with family and the impact of COINTELPRO.
“and uh we were all on the west coast and like i said it was a bit of relief that he was captured because there was talk of him not going alive.”
The Start of a Musical Journey
33:07 to 35:01
Learn about Mopreme's introduction to music and his experience with Tony! Toni! Toné!
“should be um studied should be appreciated and um there's that history and then there's black music history.”
The Magic of Feels Good
35:02 to 37:14
Mopreme reflects on his contribution to the hit song 'Feels Good'.
“That, that, that, those drums are infectious, infectious on that song.”
Impact of Pac's Evolution
37:15 to 39:47
Discussing the evolution of Tupac's career and Mopreme's role in it.
“Rest in peace, Dwayne Wiggins, who passed away like last year.”
Show all 24 chapters
Summer Jams and Collaborations
39:48 to 42:00
Mopreme reminisces about the Summer Jam events with Tupac and their musical connections.
“So, Pac knew what was going on with me and the, that the logical, organic thing was us to do some music together.”
Pac's Early Years and Rise to Fame
42:00 to 48:20
Explore the early career of Tupac Shakur and his rise in the music industry.
“you know, no exaggeration, but when he learned his big brother gonna be on the record with Tony, Tony, Tony, that meant something.”
Sponsor: Airbnb
48:20 to 49:00
An introduction to Airbnb and the benefits of listing your space.
“I just got back from an amazing family vacation in Northern California.”
The Legacy and Impact of Tupac
50:04 to 56:00
Discussing Tupac's enduring influence and legacy in music and culture.
“The moves he made, the impact he had, the love he got, the passion he displayed.”
A Dangerous Encounter with Police
56:00 to 57:39
Learn about a chaotic incident involving the police, a crowd, and a close call with a firearm.
“with our kids, and Castro had a cast on his leg at the time.”
Navigating Family Dynamics in Hip-Hop
57:40 to 59:03
Discover the complexities of family relationships and influences in the hip-hop scene.
“Now that's years later, like five years later.”
The Transition from Thug Life to Death Row
59:04 to 1:01:18
Explore the shift in alliances and the pressures that shaped the relationships within Death Row Records.
“But she'd at least be at his apartment and you'd go to his apartment sometimes.”
Aftermath of Pac's Death
1:01:19 to 1:02:40
Examine the immediate fallout and confusion following Tupac's passing and its impact on family and associates.
“Pac was, you know, they was trying to get, Defra was trying to get Pac in the keep your head up days.”
Jealousy and Conflict in the Music Industry
1:02:41 to 1:07:18
Understand the role of jealousy and rivalry in the music industry and how it affected Tupac's relationships.
“I guess I'm just trying to understand, like, what...”
Reunions and Performances Behind Bars
1:07:19 to 1:10:06
Learn about the reunions and significant moments shared during visits to Matulu in prison.
“It comes from your dad when you and Pac are on the phone with Matulu and you're telling him about how Pac's kind of hanging out with Madonna.”
Performing at Lompoc Prison
1:10:06 to 1:11:56
Learn about the unique experience of performing in prison with Tupac and the Thug Life Crew.
“we had become big enough now where, you know, it was actually a nice, you know, an event to have Pac come and perform.”
The Importance of the Memoir
1:11:56 to 1:13:13
Explore the anxieties and responsibilities of writing a memoir about a famous family member.
“Have you had a chance to, like, have Seth read the book or anything like that and talk to family?”
The Legacy of Music in Activism
1:13:13 to 1:14:25
Discuss how music played a role in activism within the family and the broader community.
“You know, that's why I love it's Unapologetically Black Stories.”
Reflections on Success and Struggles
1:14:25 to 1:15:18
Listen to reflections on the struggles faced and successes achieved by the Shakur family.
“And so, you know, we were tapped into music, you know, but then it became our era.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:06Pushkin.
0:10One of the most important artists of my life is Tupac Shakur. One of the earliest memories I have, in fact, of watching music on TV is seeing Tupac Shakur on SNL and then Biggie not that much later. But since Tupac died in Las Vegas, there's been all kinds of conspiracies surrounding his life and death, and his legacy has been picked over in ways that feel kind of demeaning to his music and to who he was as a person. So I've always avoided any interviews that have anything to do with Tupac. That is, of course, until Mo Priem Shakur, Tupac's half-brother, put out his new book, This Thug's Life.
0:43Mo Priem himself is a rapper, filmmaker, and record producer living at the intersection of revolutionary politics and hip-hop. He's also one of the only surviving members of Tupac's group Outlaw Mortals and the only surviving member of Tupac's other group, Thug Life. He was raised along with Tupac in the tradition of Black liberation activism and shaped by the streets of Queens and also the stages of the world, not just with his brother, but with his own groups and also, believe it or not, with Oakland's own Tony, Tony, Tony. Mo Priem is one of the only people you can go to to get the truth about Pac.
1:14And for the first time, Mo Priem is telling his story. It's the first ever insider account of the Shakur family, a book about brotherhood, survival, movement building, and of course, the making of Tupac's Legend. This is Broken Record. Real musicians, real conversations.
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5:11So being that we've lost so many, family and crew, you know, so I'm one of the few that could tell a story that have been around the longest. How long had you been wanting to tell this story? I mean, did it take you getting to a certain point where you felt you could reflect and then get it down, or did you? I started when I was locked up. I was locked up doing something silly I'm sitting there thinking about myself and thinking about my life and I'm like okay this would be a productive thing to do get started on cause I I knew it was gonna be necessary then and over the years do a little bit keep going do a little bit then we got to the point where I needed help and then me and Talia you know once you know once we got together on an Anna agent.
6:05Shout out to John. It was an experience. It was a lot of work. It was more work than I thought. Yeah. But I mean, thank God you have a great wife, Natalia. Because it seems like she really helps you keep she really seems to know your history, man, and care and deeply care and knows it. She's highly educated. She's Ford Fellow. You know what I'm saying? NYU Masters, all that. I ain't got all that. I got a street PhD. You know what I'm saying? But all the The academic work is, you know, to her credit. That's amazing. And, you know, she has a degree in Africana studies and Latin history and studies, you know, which was necessary in my story because a lot of my family was connected to these international issues.
6:57You know, we were Pan-Africans, Pan-Africanism. You know, my father helped fight in revolutions in Africa, you know, so free throw is necessary. At what point in your life did it hit you? Like what being the son of Matulu, like that you were the son of Matulu Shakur and what that, the heaviness of that, what that entailed? when i was uh when i was like 14 and i saw the article in the new york times uh it's a terrorist whoa you tell the story in the book about coming coming to the top of the stairs one night because you heard your dad arguing with someone and you see a bag of rifles and you're thinking yeah yeah and i i hadn't seen them kind of rifles before i was a shorty i was like seven seven eight and uh i was like yo i don't want to do this for me this is get a bunch of them in there i want i don't want them to me you know i was so you know But I knew it related to something intense and serious because he was arguing with my brother's mother, Motto, at the time.
8:15I was like, whoa. And I just never seen an M16 before. You know, I've been down south shooting Remington rifles and Daisy BB guns, but I hadn't seen that before. But it didn't register. Yeah. You know, it didn't register. Yeah. But you see that New York Times article and all of a sudden you're putting the pieces together at that point. And then I see Matulu Shakur, mastermind. I was like, oh, whoa. So I was like, oh, boy, it's going down. I mean, was the overwhelming sense at that point when you read that like fear for fear for your family, fear for anxiety? anxiety i'm like what did that mean where you know uh where are you where are these rifles going to be shot at you know didn't know yeah didn't know then i'm with my mother and i see is the fbi wanted post in the post office that you know you see that in movies but that really happened to me i was like oh um you know fbi to most wanted and i got sad because i didn't know i i knew that meant trouble simply i know it meant trouble and i didn't know when i would see him again yeah yeah so that that bothered me but you know people often confuse my father and a fanny's political assignments a fanny was in the black Panthers, the Harlem chapter of the Black Panthers.
9:52My father, Matulu Shakur, was not a Black Panther. He was in the Black Liberation Army and part of the provincial government of the Republic of New Africa. But they supported each other. All these groups supported each other. The Weather Underground, all these different groups, anti-war, anti-poverty. These people were starting to work together. Even Malcolm and Martin were starting to connect, you know, before he was murdered. There were a lot of radical groups, not just the Black Panthers at that time, working to thwart civil society, thwart the U.S. government. The Irish IRA folks, I mean, you know, they were connected with the struggles of the world.
10:43Yeah. And that, I respect it. Yeah, because we ain't the only ones going through something. And we need allies to fight these battles. And if you, you know, there's power in numbers, work together. That made sense to me. Yeah. A lot of people think that probably your childhood and Pac's childhood was just getting indoctrinated by theory all day, every day. I imagine reality's a little different. I imagine there was a balance. I'm sure there was moments where it wasn't just being taught about the struggles around the global struggle and the black struggle and how the black struggle relates to whatever.
11:30But like, so what was the balance at home? How much was it being taught, you know, those global conflicts? And then also, how much was it just normal family life? Well, when I lived with Afeni and Matulu, they were, it seemed they were trying to open us up to the world as opposed to, you know, the sick America. You know, the different cultures. I mean, because we practice Kwanzaa. When I'm with them, we practice Kwanzaa. but don't get it twisted. I love me some Christmas. Okay? Yeah. You know, and there was room for both. There was room for both. And I'm glad I got both of those experiences because it makes you, you know, smarter, I feel.
12:18Yeah, it gives you a more complete picture of the world. But I'm wondering, and how was it perceived in the rest of the neighborhood? because I'm sure also, you know, your entire neighborhood wasn't full of revolutionaries, so were people in the neighborhood kind of looking like, oh, your parents are a lot heavier, or was it like? I grew up in Southside Jamaica, Queens. So, you know, Queens is Queens, New York, New Jersey. There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of those movements, the 5 %ers, the Moors, and, you know, a lot of island people up that way. And they kind of understood, but in my neighborhood, it was thugged out.
13:00So when I came around with my little kufi and my dashiki, you know what I mean? I looked a little different, but I felt good. My little African medallion, you know? My father wore a lot of African jewelry with shells and beads and different colored stones and leather and different, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, that could be cool too. Because Matula was the coolest. you know he was the coolest yeah you put in the book that even before I mean like long before he was ever when he was just Gerald was his birth name Jarrell yeah Jarrell excuse me he was always the coolest you said he could always get away with the most and dress the flyest and even that but it was in his own way dude in his in the in one of the FBI files I think it's on his Warner poster it says know the frequent fine dining establishments you know i mean he had a particular type of he liked food he you know um he was a people person yeah people and he loved kids yeah he loved kids and he was a people person and that's what you know republic of new africa republic of new africa was doing they were setting up camps training our youth like yeah white folks were training their youth yeah that's where the rifles were going i know you and pak shared a bunk bed so i imagine like well i have two two little kids at home and sometimes i roll up i kind of go down the hallway i hear them john at night when they're supposed to be asleep and stuff what what were the things you and Pac just connected over as kids what was what were what was your guys's um relationship well at that time he was real little so he wanted to you know he was looking at me he wanted to be like me like you know and and I had the advantage of being with my mother in Queens and having Christmas so but when I would come back to Matulu and the Faneys I'll have new stuff different stuff that he would like.
15:15And, you know, he was soaking up the game. I had some Pumas. He wanted some Pumas. You know, Pumas was the shit. And, you know, I had to try to guide him in the right direction. We love food, and we always fought together at our Cousins up in the Bronx. The Lesanes, shout out to the Lesanes up in the Bronx, Leland Projects. my father would drop us off up there because it was a bunch of boy cousins you know let the boys go play with the boys and um they was always into something my cousin Kenny my cousin Billy yo they wild but they very lovable very lovable and um they'd be always into some shit and you know the cousins fight with the cousins you know so it was a bonding it created a bonding thing oh and we love karate Karate Bruce Lee was the man At the time So everybody was Bruce Lee Black White Yellow We all Bruce Lee We all had our geese Karate slippers Yeah So that's the time You were on Was Bruce Lee Oh yeah Yeah That's why I ended up Breaking my arm We Mutulu too Cause Mutulu Was a brown belt In karate Yeah and you guys Were in karate right You guys were involved In the arts Yeah He took us to Black Panther Karate School Yeah And we We learned a little bit.
16:42You know, we be standing there in our horse stand. And Sensei come kick us, trip us on our butt. And Pac did not like that very much. But, you know, that's how it was. Was he always like a, I don't know how to, it's disrespectful, but like a hothead? Was he always, did he always have a temper in that way? He did have a temper. And he had a big mouth. he'll tell you himself he had a big mouth and um you would have to be smarter than his mouth i i mean that's how i see it you know you have to be able to control your your your own emotions and temper and try to connect with him because he's very passionate he's very genuine and and it was sort of reactive but you know it was coming straight from his heart how would that come up with you at between you two as kids when you were younger um fighting not only did we fight with our cousins we karate fight play karate fight all that you know that was a real thing and uh you know i was bigger than him sometimes i hit him too hard and he get pissed off he get pissed off blew up all the big eyebrows and you know when he's when he's mad and um you know I was like, dude, dude, dude, dude, you know.
18:09And he was two, three years old, so he wasn't really used to having a brother yet. And, you know, but we got tight. It was a real big brother, little brother dynamic then. Yeah. And then Matulu would walk us to school hand in hand, you know. Wow. Felt like Leave it to Beaver or some shit. But walking down the streets of Harlem, me on one side, Paco on the other, walking us to school. Wow. And you mentioned the Lysanes. Like Pac for a long time or grew up thinking that Billy was his father, right? No, you're talking about Billy Garland. I'm talking about— Billy Garland, excuse me. Gloria Cox, Aunt Glo.
18:50That's a Fanny sister. Okay. And she—I think she got 10 kids. There's a bunch of—we got a bunch of cousins. Yeah. You guys' family is wild. Your family tree is wild. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we were all in New York. you know we were all in new york and while we were growing up you know doing the school thing our parents were doing anything you know and um until 81 until uh uh nyack went down do you want do you want to lay out that story i mean for people who don't know just kind of how like the importance of nyack and and all of this and your your father's story and okay and in nyack new york um there was an appropriation in progress at a shopping center in nyack new york um and in which a security guard and police officer were killed and at that point a lot of the comrades went on the run most of them got caught and matulu stayed on the run he was on the run for like five years um he was accused of being part of that he was charged she did his time for that as well as the liberation of assad of shakur he was captured getting her out of prison correct and which she stayed free until her last days and um matulu ended up serving 37 close to 38 years you know he paid for it but you know he was a true political prisoner which this country doesn't say that we have but his his his motives were clearly political in nature.
20:50Yeah. You know. Yeah. Did your dad and Asada, did they ever get a, was there ever a way for them to back channel and over the course of time? It was just too dangerous. I think he was getting some messages from someone. I just don't know who, you know, but they weren't frequent. It was just a check-in type thing. Even though she wasn't captured, as she was free in Cuba and she would make her own moves and you know but they stayed you know they did as much as they could that's why I keep talking about the level of commitment in those days times were little times were different but the social impact they were having was way more intense you know the anti-war folks were blowing up buildings in the U.S.
21:51And there was appropriations. There was jailbreaks because, you know, things are unfair. Pressure bus pipes. Pressure bus pipes. And kind of like, you know, the politics of the Republic of New Africa. Okay, you don't like us. You don't like us. You don't like us. Okay. Okay. Well, we can solve this peacefully by you people giving us these particular states to be run by us. Our people, since you don't like us, we're just supposed to let you just kill us all up and, you know, abuse us. So we're going to have these states and we're going to build our own nation. because we have not, as well, we have not been paid back reparations, which, you know, is conveniently forgotten over how many years.
22:49So that's kind of their thinking. Yeah. And if you don't give it to us, we will have to make other arrangements. Yeah, yeah. We'll have to figure out how to get that done ourselves. Yeah, we're just going to accept no, okay? You know, they just weren't accepting no. And accept the conditions of our current. Exactly. Exactly. The difference to me is, you know, late 60s, early to mid 70s, there were a lot of, there was assassinations. Yeah. You know, here in the U.S., there were assassinations from Malcolm, Martin, Medgar, Kennedy, and plus Fred Hampton, we can go on. Yeah. Bobby Hutton. Yes. Correct.
23:34The level of commitment was way more serious. Yeah. When you were young, at any point, did you think that was going to be your life? Did you take up that mantle and be a revolutionary as well in the same way that your father was? Yeah, because we looked up to our uncles. Baba Bilal, Baba Sekou, Geronimo. We looked up to them. But a lot of bad things started happening to them. And other uncles that were either. where's Uncle Sosa? Oh, he's locked up now. Once they go to jail, that broke a lot of connections. Jail or murdered. Jail or murdered. Jail or murdered systematically because of COINTELPRO.
24:22And you even believe, perhaps, that COINTELPRO is operating on some level, maybe under another name, some version of COINTELPRO in the background of Pac's career. Correct, under a different name. Yeah. Under different names, same tactics. Yeah. Why? Because they worked. They worked. You know, the significant thing, I think, about our story is that we were, like, the last major significant story of the Panthers of the era. The liberation of Osada, Tuluno, after that period, you know that that liberation movement was died or was fractured to the point of just not being as powerful or potent as it was yeah but wild to think that you joined the military of all things you joined the military and that they didn't know who you were that they let you exactly and you know after my father got captured I was definitely going to talk to him about it.
25:29But he knows like I knew growing up, he would always call me, this is my little soldier. This is my little soldier. My little soldier. That's all as a shorty. Yeah. You know, it's my little soldier. And so when he went down, it's like, damn, I really don't know how to be a soldier yet. So I went to learn how to be a soldier. No politics attached. But there's an invaluable education in the military. I learned how to shoot. I know about explosives. I know some shit. Yeah. Excuse my French. When I went to visit him for the first time, I told him, he was like, yeah, that's good. That's good. You know, you're going to learn some things.
26:08And then he told me about how Geronimo was in the army. You know, a lot of the brothers was in the military. I didn't know Geronimo Pratt was in the military. Mm-hmm. Because now the Black Liberation Army was the armed wing of the Black Panthers. So they supported the Panthers, you know, armed, you know, and other groups because the times were changing. You know, they had to, they were adjusting their tactics to match what was going on. You know, they would have loved to have been peaceful, but if they make it untenable, what are you supposed to do? Just lay down and just die? Nah, man. That's why they call it the struggle.
26:54It's a struggle. We'll be back with more from Mo Priem after the break.
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29:32Visit 4patriots.com, that's the number 4patriots.com, and claim your 2200X solar generator and free 200-watt solar panel while this holiday offer lasts. one of the other wild things about your story that I always forget is that you and Pac, you know, obviously it's a blended family. So you guys end up apart for a while, but just somehow through fate, you guys wind up in the Bay Area at the same time. You know, he's younger, so he's around 17, 18, but you haven't just gotten out of the military, find your way to the Bay and to Oakland, Pac's in Marin, and all of a sudden y 'all are able to reunite.
30:13and it's even wilder than that because matulu was captured in la extradited back to new york sentenced and then sent back to la right california so we were all on the west coast and uh we were all on the west coast and like i said it was a bit of relief that he was captured because there was talk of him not going alive. He wasn't going to let him take him alive. Yeah. And so we were concerned that he would be killed. But when he was captured, everybody could breathe a little bit. He's alive. The families could reconnect because COINTELPRO, they were on top of everybody trying to find Asada, one, then trying to find him, two.
31:07And then when he's captured, they still trying to find Asada. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, it was gully. But you and Pac were able to reunite because you're in the Bay Area and your sister, Seth, as well. And Pac, Faye, and Seth moved there because of Geronimo's family. Right. Geronimo's family was still there. And Geronimo was in prison at that time already. but his wife and kids or his woman and his kid. So, and then that's who Pac goes to live with for a time. That's where they started. That's where they started. And then, and then Afeni moved out. And then they got their, their, their own spot in Bay, but they didn't have much.
31:50They were broke. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And then we were blessed enough to make it in the game. Yeah. Well, I know you were kind of shocked by like the way that they were living at that time when you reconnected that just it was there wasn't quite as um you know it was it was a little less than you you'd imagined or hoped or i'd imagine right for your family yeah you know when you little you don't you don't always recognize poverty as much but i was older so i knew what poverty really was at this point and you know what was going on and um yeah it's it's not hard to maintain a nine to five when you got the feds on you all up in your business trying to uh bring you down you know and all your support system of people that would support you they're on them too yeah you know so i that that's why you know i felt i needed to write this story my story you know i don't have the only story but i'm i feel like my story is quite significant because of you know my relationship my relationships yeah and for history's sake for history's sake for their history's sake their history should be remembered should be um studied should be appreciated and um there's that history and then there's black music history.
33:23Yeah. You know, I was first to, to, you know, on a hit, on a hit record in our family. I mean, my grandmother used to make gospel records. Yeah. But he, you know, he won't know feels good. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you got, you, you have eight bars on Tony, Tony, Tony's feels good. Yes, sir. Phenomenal. Classic. Classic. To this day. Huge. God is good. Huge. And then Pac came out. But hold up. But how did it happen that you wound up? You're in the military. You moved to Oakland. How did you wind up on a Tony Tony Tony record? Because I'm from Southside, Jamaica, Queens, New York. And I'm from the mecca of hip hop.
34:06And I grew up with hip hop. Me and Pac grew up with it. All around it. Especially he was in Harlem. We were both up in the Bronx together. And I was in Queens. You know, run DMC. what you know ll and rock him you know that that that's my era right there you know highly influenced me so when i got out the army got out with a little paper i put myself in the studio and through that process brother named kenya baker his brother is in tony tony tony but he was producing some some some a demo for me and uh they came and heard my demo and then asked me did I want to be on a song. Raphael asked me, you know, asked Eric to ask me, did I want to be on a song?
34:56I'm like, yeah. Then I heard it. I was like, oh, oh, this may be the magic. That, that, that, those drums are infectious, infectious on that song. I love that song. I want to, hold up. Where's my phone? I want to, I want to play, I want to play a second. I want to play your little verse, your eight bars on that. Oh. Great. Hold up. Yeah, man. You know, go and play the classics. You want to move the table back so you can dance? Let's do it. Yeah, that was a blessing. Because that record, when we connected, the record was recorded, but it wasn't out yet. So I got to, you know, tell, give them the good news, and everybody was happy for me, you know.
35:45is that for real because everybody knew Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony had already had Little Walter Hey Little Walter I don't know remember that record from the first album yeah yeah and that was a hit and then yeah man God is good it was a charmed time in our lives you know
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36:09still sounds great
36:16Oh, songs were like four minutes, four, five minutes back then, so I'm near the end, but yeah, it was a big deal. Oh, it's gonna come in. Hold up.
36:32Boom, boom. Who? Who? Most ladies do mellow, quite a nice fellow. Met 3T, get around my cappello. They had the rhythm and I had the rhyme. So then I hit it that one more time It worked out and then they worked it in Tony, Tony, Tony has done it again Man, you're kidding me You know, the classics, baby Can you reach me? There you go Come on, man Ridiculous And I love it because it's a feel-good song The name of it is Feels Good And it's a feel-good song And it doesn't have no A whole bunch of luggage attached Yeah, yeah You know, I mean I wasn't properly compensated, but it is a blessing all the same.
37:21Yeah, yeah. It's a blessing all the same. You know, I still love them dudes, man. Rest in peace, Dwayne Wiggins, who passed away like last year. A year ago or something, yeah. Yeah, but Raphael, shout out to Raphael. I think he was just nominated for an Oscar for Sinners. For Sinners, yeah. Yeah, man, so we had some talent. We had a little talent. man but you hold on the funny part about that and i didn't know this is when they ask you to do it they're like yeah we're kind of why don't you write something we'll see what it turns out to be we're also talking to mc hammer see he'll do something yeah so you were you were kind of like the constellation prize not a constellation prize but it was kind of like all right let's see so i was like man i wonder i was like this must have been a smart move because at the end you go tony tony tony has done it again i'm like okay you must have name checked that i was i was thinking ahead You gonna pick me because I'm gonna shout you all out on it.
38:14I'm gonna put your name on the song. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, they were making commercials off of my tagline. Tony, Tony, Tony has done it again. I'm like, yo. But yeah, man, they were gonna have MC Hammer do it for real. But MC Hammer was hot at the time. He was quite pricey. So it was more economical to fuck with this little New York dude. see what he got, you know? The old dude was in the town at that time, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I didn't know nobody, you know, but I knew music. I knew I could do this, you know what I mean? I just needed a shot. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's even before Digital Underground, Pox and, you know, so you have the first hit.
38:57Yes. I am part of the story. You have the first hit. I am part of the story. And then when, when, uh, but Pac was inspired. Yeah. now that was my first record first in the family but Pac had already been on his Apollo stage Pac had already did Raising in the Sun right after Apollo age 13 right so we were honing our entertainment chops you know and then when Pac got to Baltimore they did he went to school of the arts yeah and um so he was ready he was ready shock was keen enough to to recognize that because shock recipe shock g he was a trained musician he went to school yeah in tampa music school yeah so he got it we all try to be serious artists you know yeah and and and doing it in the bay shout out to the bay area was a blessing because it was so creative groups music musicians everywhere you know legendary managers legendary artists legendary you know what i mean uh too short was out there richie rich a young e40 uh 40 water you know i'm saying and um it was just good good energy good a lot of creative juices flowing yeah man did did you when you reconnected with Pac, was he, did you, could you sense that he was coming into his own, that he was?
40:31Yes. So, Pac knew what was going on with me and the, that the logical, organic thing was us to do some music together. Yeah. We're back together, let's do some music, you know? And we sat down, we sat down to write a song. I still remember the name of the song. It was called Rolling Out of Forsyte County. Forsyte County there was a Klan rally that year in Forsyte County we seen it on the news we should go out there Cadillacs and Benz and floss on them fuck them can I curse I mean I ain't ass I'm sorry yeah yeah yeah I'm sorry yeah and so we sat down and started writing started writing trying to work out my little shit like shit and then next thing I know alright let's go what you got I'm like what I'm like you finished already yup Pac was a beast his pen was wicked he was an excellent writer and cause he would write poetry too I didn't write poetry I just wrote rhymes songs he would write poetry and I was like whoa that's when I knew oh he's really kids really got it damn and then shot gave him a shot the rest is history and then you're with him for most of the ride man like you guys are I mean you really saw the evolution of his of his career.
41:51Yeah, I helped him get there. And I mean, because I was at the beginning, he was, I inspired him, you know, no exaggeration, but when he learned his big brother gonna be on the record with Tony, Tony, Tony, that meant something. That meant something to an 18-year-old living in the Bay. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And then you're both at Summer Jam at the same time. You with Tony, Tony, Tony, him was shot with, with Digital Underground, with Shock and them, Money B. Yeah, yeah. Because it was 88, 89, 89, 90, 91, them three, four years, we were at the Summer Jam every year. Somebody was out with a record that meant they would be on the Summer Jam.
42:36Either Shock or the Tonys or, you know, always some of our people. Yeah. You know, Rich, you know, there's always a reason for us to be there. So my mind, Talia helped me work out my memory because I was remembering one summer jam was really the other summer jam. It was just like kind of a blur, but it was such a Picasso dream. Well, it's crazy, too, that like Pac gets the juice roll before. It's really hard. I mean, even having I lived it just to look back on it and knowing it and knowing all the stuff as well as I know it. But just, it is hard to process that he got the juice roll before he even had the record deal outside of Digital Underground.
43:18You know what I mean? His own solo record deal. Yeah, because Pac got into digital. Digital was hot. Do What You Like and Humpty Dance. Yeah, huge. That's when Pac got with digital. So, because they were so hot, they had a lot going on. Even wound up in that Dan Aykroyd movie, actually, now that I think about it. Nothing But Trouble. Nothing But Trouble. Nothing But Trouble. Yeah. Pac gets a little quick cameo in that. But when the role came up for Juice, Shock wanted Money B to do it first. And then Mun was like, no, Pac need to do this. It was more of a Pac-type role. And they was like, yeah, Pac should rock this.
44:03Because they knew he was also trained in acting as opposed to them guys. From Baltimore and Marin. Both schools, right? Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His first rap group was up in Marin. Ray Love, DJ Diz, Strictly Dope, always shout out Strictly Dope, Pac's first rap group. And he blew away the audition. He blew away the audition from what I heard and then the rest was history. Wow. And then we had to say like, oh shit, this nigga's a movie star. We ain't got no record deal. And so we dug in trying to get that done. Yeah. You know, it was a lot of work, you know, but we was trying to get all the money.
44:49What was it like with Interscope? Did it, over the course of things, like, how, did you ever, were you ever around like Jimmy or? I was around Tom Wiley more than Jimmy. Okay. I would have to deliver the music to Interscope, Pogba in the studio, like run this to the label, you know, and play this and this with Tom, play this, you know, I would have to play selects. But Tom looking for the singles and things like that, you know, had a lot of jobs, man. Yeah. Had a lot of jobs, but we made it. We made it, you know, hook or crook, you know, And Pac had a lot of energy, and he needed someone who could keep up.
45:37Yeah. And that he trusted. And he knew I was already— And by me having Feels Good, it gave me—I was comfortable. I was cool with that. I was cool with that. I want my brother to have a hit now. Yeah. And that just kept going. Yeah. He kept having it, it, it, you know. That run didn't stop until it stopped. Yeah, man. We had a good five, six-year run. Yeah. even when it's even when he's gone it still keeps you know it just don't stop Pac is the greatest of all times when it's rap shit for sure you know what the greatest thing about his story is and your story and all that is just when you're reading through the book so much of the narrative about any rapper now is about it's about money you know and when you're reading this your book and you're really thinking about Pac's legacy and you're just kind of reliving it it's like he probably never got the money he should have gotten but regardless it's an inspiring story man like his life you guys lived an inspired life around the arts around uplifting um blacks uplifting people of all cultures really through your example right and it's just like it's a success story that doesn't center around money and that's fascinating to me because that's all we talk about now i think kind of what set set it set park apart was that he he wrote he often wrote about social issues more than other artists.
47:03He wrote about social issues, and he was passionate, genuine, and intense. So those songs about those social issues resonated. Brenda's Got a Baby, Keep Your Head Up. You know, those songs got through. Because they were coming from a real place, a genuine place. You know, we come from community, family of community organizers. Yeah. You know, healers, you know, my father was also an acupuncture doctor. Yeah. You know, he did all that shit before 35, you know. I think that's what makes Pac's music, more than any other rapper's music, like, just perennially relevant. As long as he made those records, they're never out of style.
47:51Pac is relevant right now. Right now. Got money for war but can't feed the poor. I see that everywhere right now. Unfortunately, it's still relevant. Yeah. But, yeah, man. That's part of that being aware of the world around us. You know, it's a big world out there, and we ain't the only ones going through it. Yeah. One last break, and we'll be back with Mo Prem Shakur. I just got back from an amazing family vacation in Northern California. After years of trips to large cities, my wife and I took off north with the kids to Marin, just north of San Francisco, where we spent all of our time in Redwood Forest hiking places like Bear Valley down to Stinson Beach.
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50:10for you as his brother like what is it like i feel like every year there's a new like someone's there's always like some like interview where someone's got pac figured out okay oh he was an actor okay he was a thug okay he was a he was just a he was he was pretending okay he was a what's it like see i mean every every year is a new story about why pac was the way pac was and this is really who he was. You know what Pac was? Pac was legend. Pac was legend. The moves he made, the impact he had, the love he got, the passion he displayed. He was one of a kind. You know, he was one of a kind. And it still resonates.
50:56Pac was the black James Dean. You know, he's the Bob Marley. He's that guy. Pac was that guy. You know, I don't know how else to explain it, but his charisma. He had charisma. Yeah. Yeah. Missed that dude. Missed that dude. But he did it his way. He did it his way. Do you feel like Interscope knew what they had with him? Not until they got a hit record. I mean, they knew he was a movie star. Right. So he was worth investing in. And it might have paid off. And it did. it did but he's a movie star and he was plugged with one of the hottest groups in the game digital so there was a lot of fodder for success you know and we were hungry prior to us coming up Pac was poor you know they were broke you know Pac even tried dabbling in dope you know selling drugs but all the drug deals like man you don't need to be doing this this is not for you yeah you know and only dudes who got love for you would you know say that pull you out and put you in a different direction shout out to Man Man Mike Cooley you know partners from Richmond they they helped get him in the studio in the early days you know and then when he got with Shock Shock would assign different producers to work with Pac.
52:32Big D, The Impossible, who did changes. Shout out to Big D. Rest in peace to Big D. Johnny Chopmaster J. You know, they did a lot of the early demos. And then Pac had a lot of friends. Yeah. So he would end up working with everybody. And we would end up kicking it with everybody. He was that dude. Everybody wanted him at their party. Everybody wanted him on their song. Yeah. So we, you know, and I just try to support them. We just try to support them. Let's get it. You know, you know, I was in the military, as you know, and they got a saying that we all brothers in the foxhole. We all brothers in the foxhole, no matter who, what color you are, what gender you are.
53:19We in that foxhole together. We down for the struggle together. We riding together. Right. You know what I mean? And that's, that's what it was. The digital family. you know, like, we got Pac. You know what I mean? We got him. There's an incredible story about you guys coming back to the Bay Area and going to a fair in Marin, the county fair in Marin. Can you tell that story? Yeah, Pac had, um, was really being, he was blowing up. His success, he had already done Juice. I think he had Apocalypse Now out. He had, you know, success with that. So he was doing good. And he wanted to get back to his community where he came from, over there in Marin.
54:08And we went back for the fair. And these dudes started a fight. And, you know, we came with our cousins. The Lesanes, Outlaw Edie when he was younger. You know, they were all young. and some other kids from the neighborhood in Richmond. We went to the fair. We had no ill or malintent. And dudes just walked up to about, what'd you say there about Marin City? Bam! Sock, park up. Just hit him in the face, and it was on. And then we knew we were outnumbered and tried to get up out of there. And, you know, we got up out of there, thank God, but a child was killed. you know they were shooting we was you know it was going down they were shooting and it's unfortunate the aftermath of that like what do you guys even talk about what's the vibe after that it was you know the worst day of our lives you know none of us want anything like that to happen but we realized out here in this this world in this game with this much attention these things could happen and we didn't have no security really it was just us you know Pac was just starting out we couldn't actually afford it you know and he really needed extra and you know that's kind of gotta look at the label and all that as far as that goes but he was a movie star as well as a successful rapper now.
55:51So his popularity was high and all we had was us. You know what I mean? And we was out there with our cousins, with our kids,
56:04and Castro had a cast on his leg at the time. To his hip, you know, one of them long casts? Yeah. And so, you know, dudes are shooting at us. We're trying to run and it was just bad. It was a bad day. The cops even got involved. I mean, you got a gun pulled right to your head by a cop. Yeah, the sheriff put the yeah, the sheriff put a pistol to my head and the crowd was attacking us and it was me and Pac in the front and we were trying to wait for everybody to get in the truck so we could get out of there and we were waiting at the same time the sheriff had a pistol to my head but the crowd is still coming they're throwing rocks They're mad.
56:48They're angry. You know what I mean? And, you know, because they think Pac dismarined. They busted out the window, started busting out all the windows. But then they started pulling on the doors. They started pulling on the doors. It was going to yank, I think it was Edie on that side. It was about to yank him out, and it was going to get even worse. So I evaded. I evaded. There was a lot going on, so I think the sheriff got distracted. Pop it in reverse. I got us up out of there. I got us up out of there. Also, as the older brother, I felt responsible for taking care of everybody to a certain degree.
57:28And you really did play that older brother role. I mean, I didn't really know that story that things got, I mean, I know things got kind of weird at death row, but that you got pushed out. Seems that way. I mean, you know, we were at that time. Now that's years later, like five years later. But at that time, we were repping, we had been repping Thug Life, which had its own power. Death Row had its own power. I thought when we combined forces, you know, we all be allies riding together, you know, but it was a lot of gang shit going on. You know, this is, that's where it was L.A., a lot of gang shit going on.
58:14And, you know, gang practices and how they get down, you know, wasn't necessarily how we got down. And, you know, that shit didn't like me. Who knew? I ain't never had nothing against the brother. So a lot of pressure started coming down on me in different ways. so I decided to gracefully bow out. My brother's grown now. He went from a young man to a man. He was growing. He became from a young man to a man. Now he's a grown man and he's making his own decisions. And, you know, we're big on freedom. Let him have his freedom. you know i try as much as possible to influence him in all the positive ways you know what i mean and uh he took he he learned a lot of lessons he soaked up a lot of game but he was still him he was not not going to be him yeah about that time though he opens up a an office out of your aunt's apartment his aunt's apartment your aunt's apartment and so you would go through by there and Fanny would be there and just different family.
59:34It was more of a family thing. Well, not so much Fanny but Yasmin. But she'd at least be at his apartment and you'd go to his apartment sometimes. So you were around the family. Yeah. I would go to the house. Once I stepped away, I would go to his house. He would be at the, he was in Calabasas. I was like, you know, I still loved him. He knew I still loved him. I was mad at him. You know, with the whole death row shit I felt like he could have made that go a different way you know but I realized he was under pressure himself yeah so I didn't want to make it no harder for him yeah and was that the consensus with the rest of the family too or was it sort of like hey this isn't well everybody wasn't privy to the same information and experiences you know I was a frontline soldier, so I was around for the good and bad and, you know, and all the ways.
1:00:39And I guess my presence wasn't desired or required anymore. Like, okay. Okay. You know? Right. Because we had a positive—at first, we had a positive outlook with Death Row. because Pac always wanted to support black business. And Pac had done good business with Suge in the past on the Above the Rim movie. Right, on the soundtrack, yeah. Paid him stupid for it. So they had a good relationship. It's not, you know, Suge is who he is. Yeah. But they had a good relationship. Pac was, you know, they was trying to get, Defra was trying to get Pac in the keep your head up days. And he asked, again, he asked me what I thought.
1:01:29I'm like, yo, why you want to be on somebody else's ship where they're the captain? Here, right now, you're the captain on your own ship. Right. You should do this, you know, until he couldn't do it no more and he needed some help. And that's what happened. Yeah. After Pac passed, what was it? I know after Pac passed, Suge kind of went through his own, he had his own thing going on. You know, he had a bunch of legal issues right after that happened. Was there communication between the family and Suge in the way you might imagine or people might have imagined there being i mean you know my sister asked him directly and he said he didn't have nothing to do with what happened to pop yeah and and believe it or not i believe it because my brother gave him power his relationship my brother with my brother gave him power yeah so i don't see why he would destroy his power source.
1:02:25That's why investigation's going on. We gonna see. Whoever the fuck it was. Pardon my French. You know. But yeah, that's about as much as it went, though, because he was dealing with his own shit as well. Did the family have a bad feeling towards Suge at that point? Or was it... I guess I'm just trying to understand, like, what... I mean, we were all confused. yeah death row was a top dog and they were strong and they had uh a big security company uh securing them and they had gangbangers on the label and you know they they should have been safe yeah but um you know things started happening to where uh you know these these random things things would happen, these random fights would happen, which caused him to be attacked.
1:03:24You know, but, you know, I feel it was orchestrated. I feel it was orchestrated. I may be wrong, but we gonna see. Yeah. Do you feel confident we'll get some answers? We gonna get more than we got now. Yeah. We gonna get more than we got now. Yeah. You know, but what pisses me off is that, you know, shit is blatant. They ain't writing books. Yeah, I killed them. Yeah, yeah. Gave me the gun. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. All y 'all tough guys. Okay. We gonna see. You know what I mean? It's really, you know. I mean,
1:04:05Pac does hold some responsibility for the way he went about it. But, you know, he went wrong. It was just a perfect storm. Yeah. It was a perfect storm. The stuff that was going on on the East Coast with Biggie and Puffy. Suge had his own issues with Dude. food um it was just you know you know uh enemy of my enemy is my friend you know what i mean that that's kind of what was happening and it was the storm was so perfect it was hard to not to for it not to take off like that yeah yeah fog of war situation in hindsight might be clear what you know but right and a lot of the guys that were like pak was like Stretch and you know like you knew those guys yeah I knew Biggie, Stretch going back now to the quad shooting so when Pac was adamant that those guys were involved Haitian Jack, Stretch, Big Puff like were you kind of like taken aback by that seeing as you knew those people yes yes I just didn't know to what degree the relationships had deteriorated.
1:05:38Yeah. Because as of that day, Pac was cool with all them. Pac was cool. Until that day, Pac was cool with all them. Pac was thinking about possibly signing. See, these are the things that people don't know. Pac was thinking about possibly signing big. to Out the Gutter. People forget that Pac had a label deal. He was finally in a position where he could sign artists. He was putting us to our first Thug Life. Thug Life Volume 1 is on Out the Gutter, right? Correct. So he was in a position and Pac, we did songs together. Pac and the Outlaws did song with Big and it was a real relationship there.
1:06:24You even said running was supposed to be running for the police. That comes out of the Thug Life concept. Yeah. I mean, yeah. It was all about Thug Life at that time. That's one of the projects that Pac worked on the longest was the Thug Life project. About two and a half years we worked on that. Straight out of... Actually, while we were still working on Strictly for My Niggas, that's when the Thug Life material started being created. It's a hell of a ride, man. It's been a hell of a ride. But, yeah. So, you know, when things turn from sugar to shit, there's usually a reason, you know. And with our success, with the music success, and Pac was having film success, that movie star shit just kept getting bigger.
1:07:18Yeah. You know, comes a lot of jealousy and envy. and that's another thing you got to deal with that is hard to explain yeah you know why you got beef with that nigga i don't know why i got beef with that nigga he just don't like me you know what i mean sometimes and then that turns into something you know and you so you were seeing that around like people people around being yeah and pak was you know he was unapologetic he said yeah nigga I'm the best I'm the best and y 'all should support me cause I'm a ride for y 'all I'm a ride for the people and he's like y 'all should know me by now y 'all should know me by now I'm a ride for the people and that resonated people felt that and it's amazing too how you guys stayed in touch with with Tulu the whole way the whole time I mean it was one of the funniest just try to end on a lighter note man One of the funniest anecdotes in the book.
1:08:20It comes from your dad when you and Pac are on the phone with Matulu and you're telling him about how Pac's kind of hanging out with Madonna.
1:08:34And your dad's like, now my pops has his reputations with his ladies of all types. So, you know, he's trying to drop the game on us, you know, because he still wanted to be considered a player. Now, look here. Now, look here, y 'all. Pac, don't have sex with her. Sex her mind. Sex her mind. Get into her mind. Fifth fight I wish you coming from. Me and Pac was like, yo, we started to bust our 11. I'm like, dude, all right. All right, Matulu. Okay. All right, sure. Sure thing. Too late! Sex or mine, yeah, yeah. Pop was like, too late! Yeah, man. Yeah, come on. It's Madonna. Yeah, there might have been some game in that though.
1:09:24There might have been some game in that though, in hindsight. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was too late. It was too late. It was actually too late. Sex or mine first. Yeah. And, I mean, we talked all the time because it was like that's the closest the family could be to reuniting. Yeah. You know? You know, we could finally talk. I mean, it was through prison phone with all the feds listening. But at least we could hear his voice, share a laugh, soak up a little game. And if you had a chance, go visit. Yeah. That's why we really, Matulu wanted to see us and we wanted to see him. So he made sure when he started doing the events in prison for the prisoners, he made sure that we were included.
1:10:15we had become big enough now where, you know, it was actually a nice, you know, an event to have Pac come and perform. Yeah. You know, and this was, he wanted, Pac wanted it to be specifically Thug Life to come perform. And we performed at Lompoc Prison, Thug Life Crew, YMV, Big Psych, Big Surge. That was like the last time me, Pac, and my father were together, was in that prison. Wow. And we we took a bunch of pictures with all the crews. I mean, there was it was almost didn't go down because it was almost a riot. So, with Matulu, able to piece it out, we had to take pictures with all the crews, DC crew, DC mom, Island boys, VI boys, the Bloods, the Cribs, you know, all the black gangs, BGF.
1:11:21You know, we took like so many pictures that day. I don't know if anybody got any, but yeah. we were able to find a few from the Lime Pop performers that are in the book and people please buy the book This Thug's Life we got 24 photos in there some never before seen photos Big Matulu up in there you know Faney you know we tried very hard to get the pictures right I think I messed up my mama's picture with my grandma's picture but I don't know how that happened but I hope she still loves me next edition you can correct that I'll get it fixed next time. Have you had a chance to, like, have Seth read the book or anything like that and talk to family?
1:12:00Anyone upset? Are people happy? There's so much anxiety with that shit, especially this type of book. I know. It's a memoir. I bet, yeah. So first, you know, we're from the keep it real generation. I had to keep it real as possible. Yeah. And I try to be as genuine as possible. But, you know, cold hard truth sometimes comes over cold, you know. But they know I ain't lying. You know, there ain't no lies in there. It's a beautiful testament to your family, man. There's a lot in here. Thank you, man. We try hard. It's a great read. You know, unlike a lot of people, you haven't spent the last 30 years running around telling every story under the sun, you know.
1:12:47And so it's great to finally be able to get this story from your vantage point. You know what I mean? Someone as close to him as his brother. And I feel it's too important not to make sure that it's, you know, down for the record. Yeah. Because it involves my family. You know what I mean? And it's all through the lens of the politics y 'all grew up with. You know what I mean? and it's all through the lens of a love of blackness. You know, that's why I love it's Unapologetically Black Stories. Yes, sir. The subtitle of the book. Yes, sir. It really is. It is. And it's through the lens. And you even talk about the music through that lens.
1:13:28And that's an important part that a lot of people miss, I think, when discussing even Pac's music or your music or, you know, Thug Life and any of it. Yeah, I can't wait to do a series, a show, because we also touched music. Yeah. Now, my Baba Bilal, my Uncle Bilal, played with Gil Scott Herring. That's wild. The Midnight Band. The revolution would not be televised. He was rocking with real revolutionaries. You know what I mean? And then my father would promote shows to raise money for the movement, for the movement in other countries. He raised money to buy ambulances in Africa. Yeah. Yeah. Roberta Flack, Eddie Palmieri, I mean, major acts of the day he would promote.
1:14:18So that's why I can't wait to do a series. We could have the musical element. We could have all that in there. But yeah, Baba Bilal played the flute. And so, you know, we were tapped into music, you know, but then it became our era. The hip hop era took over and, you know, we were doing our thing now. Well, you guys left your mark, man. You guys left your mark, man. God is good. I'm thankful, grateful for, you know, the successes we've had. It ain't been easy, but I just, I'm thankful that their struggles wasn't for nothing. They got to see something good come out besides all the brothers getting locked up, getting killed.
1:15:01You know, they got to see you know, our side have a little success. Yeah. You know, We take the family to general market. Yeah, yeah. Mo Priem, man, thank you for writing the book, and thanks for taking the time to talk to me about it. Man, thank you. It's a real honor. Real honor. Thank you, my brother. I appreciate you. Come on. In the episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist of our favorite songs from Mo Priem Shakur and of Tupac. Be sure to check out youtube.com slash Broke a Record podcast to see our video interviews. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at The Broken Record Pod.
1:15:37You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Talliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music is by Kenny Beats.
1:16:08I'm Justin Richmond.
1:16:13This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.
From the publisher
Mopreme Shakur is 2Pac's half-brother, a rapper, filmmaker, and record producer living at the intersection of revolutionary politics and hip-hop. He's one of the only surviving members of Thug Life and Outlawz, raised alongside 2Pac in the tradition of Black liberation activism.
And now, for the first time, he's telling his own story. His new book, This Thug's Life, is a book about brotherhood, survival, movement building, and the making of a legend.
On today's episode Justin Richmond talks to Mopreme about growing up in a family steeped in activism, how he started his rap career with a classic appearance on "Feels Good" by Tony! Toni! Toné!, and what it was like to witness the evolution of 2Pac's career.
You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Mopreme Shakur HERE.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
