Nada Surf

27:07Right. But in terms of rhythm, he's completely his own beast. Absolutely. And sound and approach and tricks and adventure. And it's super punk. I know that word is a whole hours long discussion because it's sometimes very slippery, you know, the meaning of it. But just the wildly adventurous kind of reigned in organized chaos and doing stuff that, you know, sounded like the speakers blowing up kind of all that pickup switching and string scratching. And it's just so exciting. Did that music, I'm thinking particularly of something like Remain in Light, which is fairly esoteric. Yeah, for sure. Did you feel like I can go do this?

27:49Absolutely not. And that was the great thing about the Ramones and the Who. so I really I loved classic rock and loved the songs but really loved Zeppelin and Hendrix too and that to me was not particularly encouraging music because it was so many steps away I couldn't see it I always felt that way because I grew up on that kind of music and just thinking like be like if somebody gave me like Itzhak Perlman and said here's a violin I'd be like well I don't know where to start yeah yeah whereas a lot of like Who and Ramones is sort of like if you can drum this beat out with your hand on a desk you can probably actually do it because all you have to do is put your fingers in a certain position to get a chord and get used to holding a pick and and do that same rhythm you were beating out on the desk do it on the guitar and you're kind of there you know not to oversimplify i mean obviously they're incredible players unbelievable but but yeah much much more uh much more doable reachable yeah well there's something else i want to ask you about because you made a short little film about it which is you had a tremor when you were a kid Yeah, yeah.

28:51And do you still? I do. I'm really lucky in that it's going the opposite direction of most people I know who have it. It tends to get worse. Mine is getting a little better. But I just had very shaky hands as a child. And I was, you know, teased a fair amount for that, you know, why you're so nervous. Because it made you appear nervous? Yeah. You know, if I would meet, like, my girlfriend's parents and they asked me to pour them a glass of water or something, you know, thinking that something was going to go wrong, I was going to start shaking, would make me shake very much. So there's that kind of psyching yourself out problem.

29:24What's the neurological basis for that? Intentional tremor. And I wish I knew more, but it's something like intentional, i.e. when you don't want to do it, you do it. So is it almost like stuttering? Yes, exactly right. And it's gotten better in part because I'm just calmer and happier as a person. I meditate. I don't have totally super regular practice or anything, but I do it pretty often. And just, I have, I have this theory that as you get older, you get happier because you were in so much danger when you were a child, or there was so much danger that you needed to communicate to your parents.

30:02When you were a baby, you needed to let them know you were tired or, or that you were hungry or thirsty or cold. And now that, now that we're older, maybe our bodies are like, maybe it's okay to turn off some alarm systems now because things seem to have been going pretty regularly for a few years so i've been experiencing this increase in peace as i get older it absolutely happens and it's it's well documented the u-shape oh happiness the low point apparently is 47 right well i'm past that they've actually maybe they've isolated to the one day right you're 47 i'm not sure but i'll bet when you were a kid did the tremor affect how you played guitar?

30:47Well, I think it discouraged me from getting too far into fingerpicking, which is kind of a regret. I'm trying to mend that now and learn a little more, trying to figure out how to play Scarborough Fair and stuff like that. Right. But no, because once I'm into it, it would kind of disappear. It's like the first few minutes on stage used to be a little dicey. I think my breath is going to be really short and I'm going to sing. You'll hear my nervousness. But that's gotten shorter and shorter and it's kind of dissipated. But even back then, after a few minutes, the act of doing something I love so much would calm me down, and then I'd get through just fine.

31:22You're such a propulsive player. Maybe that helps you to start. Yeah, I think so. And I was just talking about XTC the other day. Andy Partridge stopped touring in, I think it was 82 or something, from Stage Fright. And I was talking to a friend about how he seemed to be such an animated and active and compelling frontman. But maybe that's how he got through his stage fright was by just becoming wild so that he would forget that he was afraid. What's interesting to me about particularly this new record, because you have been a band that's been around for a while. Most bands that have been around this long, most singer-songwriters, some of my favorite performers in the world, they lose their fastball.

32:10it becomes very hard for them to do the fast songs the way they used to but your band you still do amazing fast songs and i think you're i'm not gonna say one of the few but you're one of the bands that can still pull off a great fast song without making it sound like here's our new fast song i'm trying really hard without that so what accounts for you being able to do this so well for so long? Gosh, thank you for the very kind words. I don't know. I heard a Johnny Marr quote. He said something like, I have two speeds, fast and slow, or very fast and very slow. And so I don't know if there's this habit, like I'm used to, I'm used to moving my right hand really quickly.

32:53I have like jittery legs, you know, nervous legs. And I remember when I was a kid, I was at like a play with my parents. And during the intermission, somebody from three or four seats away came over to me and said kid you gotta stop moving but anyway that was when i was a kid so it doesn't explain now i don't know it just it feels like it comes naturally i'm not wrong though like a lot of bands kind of lose their yeah well we check ourselves now and again and keep asking ourselves if it's too fast right because we we tend to play everything faster live just excitable well that's you know that's the ramones tradition right wasn't the famous quote they asked one of them how the tour was going and one of them said we're doing it in 50 minutes whatever like crazy number of songs said but we're trying to get it down to 45.

33:42Well you know we uh we did an Iggy Pop song on a on a compilation called We Will Fall 1998 or something and Iggy Pop was on it and the label is based in New York and they wanted to have a record release party and they needed a band to back Joey up so they we were the only New York band on that record so they asked us and of course We said yes. And they said, okay, you're going to do I Want to Be Sedated and 1970, the Stooges song. So we practiced for two weeks, I mean, completely obsessively. And then at practice for the thing, when he came, you know, and we're just like grinning like kids. We're so excited.

34:18Daniel Ray, who's this great producer, was with him. And he counted it off at the speed that the Ramones were doing it, you know, right up until the end. And Ira, our drummer, to his total credit said, actually, could we do this? could we do it at this speed and clicked out the album speed which is quite a bit slower it's really 20 20 24 hours it's not that fast and joey really liked it which was so it was so great and then he said after we'd done the record release party he said hey if you want the next time you have a gig in new york learn your seven favorite ramon songs and i'll get up and sing them and we had a show at coney island high two weeks later and and he did it oh my god it was so great I still have the set list.

35:01I just can't believe it actually happened, but it did. It was a total thrill. I mean, thrill of a lifetime, obviously. Wow. That's fantastic. Yeah, it was so great. You see, even he wanted to go mid-tempo when he got older. Yeah, so great. What a great guy. Yeah, he was so super sweet. Yeah, incredible. So where did you meet your bandmates? So Daniel Lorca, the bass player, he went to the Lycée Francais, and I did too because my parents took sabbatical years, and we lived in Paris when I was five years old and then 12 years old later. And they put me in the local school and I didn't understand a word and then started to pick up a little bit of French.

35:38And by the time we got back to New York, I was French-ish enough that my parents put me in that school. So Daniel was there. He's from Spain, but his father was a diplomat and they'd moved around a lot. So that's two of us. And then when we were 16, we went to see a band called The Fuzztones a bunch of times and thought their drummer was great and met him and he seemed like a really nice guy and uh there were a few times when daniel and i had had a couple of bands and there were a couple times yeah maybe only two times when we needed a drummer and he said let's call iron i said no because i thought he was too good and i thought we might not be able to hold on to him you know a really good drummer in new york who's also a really sweet guy and funny you know that's like gold so i thought let's not do it unicorn yeah Exactly.

36:26And then a couple of years later, I kind of started to have some confidence in the songs that we had. And I said, yeah, let's call him. And he joined up. And then Louis Lino, our keyboard player, was here in Williamsburg, and Daniel in 1991 moved into the apartment under Louis. And he had a recording studio, and we became friends and would sometimes record a little something in his studio. And over the years, he would mix a song here or there and add some keyboards to a couple of songs on a record and finally started touring with us, and now he's full-time. And then how did you meet Rico Kasich, who produced your first record?

37:02Well, Daniel would go back to Spain every summer, and we made a 45. A friend of mine, Joe Habaico, wanted to start a label, but he couldn't afford to put out a single, and I couldn't either, so we split it, and I made the covers, he made the vinyl. And it was a song called The Plan, and Daniel took that to Spain and played it for somebody who played it for somebody, and we were offered a deal to put out a record in Spain. So we made an album and sent it to this label, and they said, well, we want it worldwide, and we said, you know, we knew that even though we were just pretty green, that if somebody didn't have something going on in the whole world, you couldn't give it to them for that.

37:40So I was sitting on this tape of a record that we didn't know what to do with, and I sent it to the indie labels I really liked and never heard back from them. I was sitting on the subway one day, and there was Mitch Easter, like 12 feet away, reading the Daily News. I was too shy, and I regretted it immediately when I got out of the train and I hadn't given him a cassette. So I told myself, I'm never going to do that again. If there's a chance I'm supposed to take, I will take it. A couple of weeks later, I went to see Blonde Redhead at Knitting Factory, and I was walking out, and I saw Rico Kasich walking in.

38:11And I'd always loved him. I'd always loved the cars. I knew he was a producer, too, and a really good one. Underrated as a producer. He did a lot of music. Yeah. People remember him as a singer-songwriter. Yeah. Romeo Void, Suicide, Bad Brains, and then Weezer. Weezer. Yeah. so I went up and said so sorry to bother you but I'm in a band and could I give you a tape and he said oh sure is your number on it very gracious wow and I never thought in a million years he would call but I as the saying goes went out to dinner on that for a couple of weeks you know told some friends you'll ever guess so I gave a tape to you and then one day I came home and my roommate said you need to listen to the answering machine and there was a message from him and I called him back and he invited me to his house and beautiful spring night I locked my bike to nothing just I leaned my bike against a pole outside his house, but locked it to nothing.

39:01Right, because you were just so... I was so... Right, just spaced out on cloud nine. And he was really sweet, really sweet. And we hung out for a little while. I mean, you know, whatever. He had coffee, I had water. You know, it's like nine or ten o 'clock. And then he invited me to his studio downstairs, and he said, so what is this? What is this tape? And I said, well, it's this record that we don't know what to do with. And he said, well, you could put it out. but if you ever want to re-record these songs i'll produce them and i'll be really cheap that's great and he said do you have a record deal i said no he said well just keep my number and a couple of weeks later unbelievably we were playing a bar called rebar on 16th street on the west side and this really nice guy called bobby mccain came up after and said i'm into a label called number six and i'd heard of them because they'd put out a dean wearham single and they'd put out the unrest record imperial ffrr which i thought was so good and that was my dream that somebody who put out cool records would come up to me after a show and say could i hear a tape so we gave him one and the next day he called and said actually my day job is at electra and um my friend ben weber who happens to be our manager now played it for his boss and he wants to meet you today so we went up there and we were offered a deal which we turned down for about a month and thought about it kind of scared us you know that was right that was so quick and and i'd heard stories about you know this was the period of commercial alternative when a lot of indie kind of bands were getting signed by big labels it didn't always end well no but in the end we said yes and he was great in the studio he's incredible he didn't let the label visit they wanted to come down he said absolutely not and we wouldn't have been able to stop them no and the other wonderful thing he did for me it was great was that when we would record a song he would have me sing what's called a scratch vocal where you go in and do you know and he'd say okay do that one more time then we did guitars and and so about eight or nine days into the record we were running out of things to do and i knew it was time to sing and i and i i sort of nervously said you know rick is it time to do the vocals now i said you're done he knew that what i was going to do naturally after a take relaxed which you know maybe not great but it was going to be better than red light fever so that was a that was a really sweet thing i think he's really good at young young bands.

41:11Mm-hmm. My father figure. You know, those car records he did were so, I know he didn't produce them all, but they were so slick and highly produced. Yes. Yeah. Your first record wasn't. Yeah. It was more ramshackle. Yep. And did that surprise you? Did you think he was going to give you the cars sound? No, but it's a little wilder maybe than the Weezer record, for example. but i already knew that he really liked suicide and stuff so and bad brains right so like he clearly he liked wilder music also right but but you know he even in the ramshackle nature of that record he was he zoned in on certain things said double this word put another guitar here you know and and i knew what he was going for was a little precision yeah like when he would have me double track a guitar he'd have me do it seven or eight times and i was just doing the same thing over and over and he was just waiting for the one where accidentally i'd hit it at the same microsecond and it had a little more pow to it and he was looking for that which is kind of a pop thing to be looking for looking for impact yes yeah and then you know from there you've had this career that's it's like the history of modern music you you had a big single right popular that's on mtv yeah and then you're dropped by your label yeah then you put out you know the album where i discovered you let go or a lot of people discovered you yeah and i discovered it because someone gave me a compilation they used to give out at starbucks oh yeah yeah your music used to do them and i know everybody makes fun of you know starbucks music those compilations were actually fabulous they're a bunch of great bands and you did yeah it was a blizzard of 77 which i have to I wanted to ask you about that song because growing up in Canada, as I did, I heard that song and I thought, wow, this guy knows what a blizzard really is.

43:05Tell me about that song. Well, I remember blizzards in New York. I mean, blizzards everywhere. I mean, were snow days. Did you find that snow days were like heaven? They were like magic. It's like magic. And we'd wait by the phone to hear if there was the announcement that schools were closed in New York today. And I loved that the city would disappear. All the cars are gone. Everything's white. Everything's new, clean. I knew that there was a big blizzard in 78. 77 was a catchier number, though. So I moved it over by one. But I was just thinking back to those joyous, I mean, that line at least is thinking back to those joyous days.

43:46And then you meet up with your friends in the park, and you see people on cross-country skis going down the avenue. and the cars are just lumps in the snow, the way the lyrics say. Yeah. Then it becomes a love song. It's not a blizzard song at all. Yeah. The reason it's sort of a, for us, kind of quiet song is that I was sharing a room with Daniel in a hotel in Amsterdam when we were on tour. I was starting to hear the song in my head and didn't want to bother him, so I went into the bathroom and played it really quietly into a little portable four-track. And we liked the way it sounded kind of hushed, so we kept it that way.

44:18Is that how you write? Do you just have a four track or do you sit down with pen and paper? What's your routine? Well, I do a little pen and paper, but that stuff doesn't seem to last. Maybe I'll fish a line out of it or something. But the bits that seem to have the best shot are when I sit down and write some words and a melody and some chords all at the same time, like all married to each other. And it can be just a short, like one little line. And some of them I'll really like and want to do more. It depends on if I'm hunting, like if I'm waiting for a song to appear or whether I have an idea, because sometimes it's like a concept, you know, and you chase it down.

44:57One last break, and then we'll be back with the rest of Bruce Hedlum's conversation with Matthew Koss. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Oocla Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged.

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47:30Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them. Machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing.

48:07Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. What was writing like on this album? Well, for the first time, I had a real system for a little while. And that is that it was sort of tail end of COVID. And I hadn't done very much with all that extra time, except spend glorious time with my then toddler. But it was really time to get the band going. And so for about two months, I woke up at 5 or 5.30 most mornings. And I found that it was because then I'd have the house to myself. My wife and kid would still be asleep and I'd have the living room all to myself. And it's nice to be in a big room sometimes.

48:45Something about the sound not coming back at you from a wall that you're near is sort of less assaulting. But what I found, and it's kind of a corny way to put it, but it's really what it feels like is that my inner critic was still asleep because like a lot of people, I have a fairly active inner critic and I'm ready to shoot down a lot of things that I make. And often the fuel or the ammo of this critic is like, this isn't, you know, A, this isn't very good. And you should have started three hours before because it's 2 PM. What were you know, procrastinatory ADHD, whatever it is, whatever caused me to start later than I meant to.

49:23And And that guilt turns into shame, et cetera. But I found that at 5, 6, 6.30 in the morning, I was just innocent. There was nothing wrong. I couldn't have wasted the day. There hasn't been a day. There hasn't been anything. It's all free. Maybe I won't use it later, but it's not wrong. It's okay. And the sort of heart of most of the songs was from those mornings. And I would record whatever I liked that morning and label it with a date. and then every couple of weeks go back and go through those dates and see what was there and try to get organized. What lines did I like? Where the hooks? What hooks would go with other hooks?

50:02And sort of build it from there. I just saw this interview with Ringo Starr. And he said something I hadn't heard him say before, which is that he gave a lot of credit to Paul McCartney for, he said, always making them work. And he said if it weren't for him, we would have put out three albums and been forgotten. Right, right, right. So what is it about your band that has endured? Are you the taskmaster? Are you the guy that gets them all working? Or is there some other dynamic that's allowed you to produce music for so long? I'm a little bit of that guy, but no, because we work so much more slowly than the Beatles.

50:43It's four years since our last record, and they would have made six. That was half their career. Yeah, half their career. Yeah, exactly. So we're on a much slower track. But yeah, I get real excited, but we all do. You know, we all love it. And the producer on the last couple of records has been this wonderful guy called Ian Lawton, who's been our sound man in Europe for over 20 years and our tour manager. And he's a get stuff done guy with a really sweet touch, you know, not a sergeant, more like an encourager, cheerleader coach. and he gets us going. But I'm fairly driven once I get going. How much do the songs transform once you're with the rest of the band?

51:26You know, from not a lot to a lot. It's really case by case. Not tons, but they just take on so much more life. And, you know, Daniel's a really, he's a very adventurous player and will come up with pretty unorthodox bass lines. And it's so often something I wouldn't have thought of. And what I really love is sometimes that it will feel alien at first almost wrong and then i'm like oh it's great you know i love that sense of adventure iris like that too um you know i mentioned um this album is full of like good straight ahead yeah guitar songs but you know open seas and give me the sun there's just a lot of really really sharp songs can you talk about the first single uh in front of me now yeah yeah yeah Yeah, so there's a story, there's a very specific story to the song, and it is that I was at home, I was vacuuming the house, and I was wearing noise-canceling headphones.

52:20And my wife came up the stairs, and she said, could you fill the bath? I want to put some bleach in it and give it a good clean. I said, absolutely. So I start filling the bath, I put my noise-canceling headphones back on, and I keep vacuuming, assuming, of course, that I will remember that I'm running a bath. Well, I did not remember, and she came running up the stairs 10 minutes later, yelling so that I would hear her, What is happening? And all our smoke alarms in the house were going off because I was flooding the kitchen from the bedroom upstairs. Total, utter disaster, to my great shame.

52:52So I go into whatever action I can, mop, stop, try to turn off the smoke alarms. A few hours later, we get the power back on. Seems like everything's drying out. We stopped it in time. Nobody's mad. It's all okay. But I'm left with this cloud of feeling so dumb and disappointed and worried that this is my brain. You know, this is the brain I have to live with. The only one I've got will do something like this. Unbelievable. And a couple of days later, I'm driving. I said, it's sort of an errand to do a couple hours drive. And I'm trying to get out of this funk and i start making a deal with myself i say the problem is i do too many things at once i'm going to try and do one thing at a time and this cheers me up because you know when you make a deal with yourself it's kind of on on credit you know no i'll feel better now because i'm promising myself that i'm gonna do x y or z and you know p.s that thing and that song has kind of help me multitask less, but only by like 5%.

53:59But still, every little bit helps, I guess. But so I started writing this song at the wheel, which is funny because that's a kind of multitasking too. Yeah, that's more dangerous, actually. Well, I was definitely watching the road. I hit somebody. Yeah, no, I wasn't using a pen. I was just thinking about it. And I didn't get every line, but the concept, absolutely. I used to be this while I was that. Now I'll do what's in front of me now. yeah that's it and there's something very uh joyful about that song yeah that you're actually just going to take things as they come i think so i think so and just the yeah and it's kind of a tumble which is sort of fun yeah you've got a great rhyme with decembering i can't remember what it uh yes in the middle of summer i used to be haunting not just remembering in the middle of summer i was decembering now when when you get an idea like that are you just so eager to sit down because you just know the lyrics can be, how far can I take this?

54:54Yeah, totally. And what I enjoyed doing, I showed it to a couple of people and I was just making up lyrics on the spot and always messing up, you know, stumbling and not able, because it's too fast to think of, at least for me, to think of new words or concept every few seconds. But it was just fun to think that it could be anything. You know, I used to be cleaning when I was dreaming or I used to be eating when I was sweeping or, you know. Yeah, it almost feels like one of the old List songs, like Johnny Cash's I've Been Everywhere or something like that that just like goes through the whole.

55:29I love a List song. Yes. Yeah. So tell me about the song Losing. That is by Louis Lino, our keyboard player. And we were at Daniel's house where we have band practice and we were waiting for everybody to show up and just playing each other stuff, you know, tracks or demos on our on our laptops and he played me that and just i was floored i loved the chorus right away really really loved it and asked him if he wouldn't mind you know contributing it to the band which means you know splitting the writing and stuff because we're kind of a collective that way right no matter who writes and yeah he was into it and i was thrilled and hats off to john goodmanson who makes this record because he managed to make sense out of a a whole i i recorded a lot of kind of my bloody valentine the early teenage fan clubby string bendy whiny stuff which is a real mess but he managed to kind of corral it into something that still works you're not a you're not a big string bender but no no i'm not not usually you did on that and second skin which is the song that leads the album yeah that's one of the ones i wrote early in the morning and um just like the idea of those times in life where i felt i was hiding something or trying to present a certain way, you know, which is not a lot.

56:45I haven't had a lot to hide, but, you know, you still have those moments and just the not feeling good in your, in your skin. Yeah. And just about that and about how I've started to feel better. So it's kind of, um, you know, chronicling that a little bit and searching for better ways to feel. What is it? I tried so many new and old ways to die and self-improve, um, from divining with dead sticks to fallen yogi hot moves that's like you know doing hot yoga for a while and then just making friends with that skin or maybe it's mine maybe this is my brand new skin maybe i maybe i'm not hiding anything maybe i'm just maybe i'm just me and maybe i'm just here yeah and the last song on the album oh it's a lovely lovely song oh thanks and that's kind of a in a really uh fisher price my first riff kind of way is an attempt at kind of a baroque feel the way that guitar line kind of drips down you know one one finger moves then the other finger moves when the one finger stays etc which i love those moments at the end of Bach pieces where he hits the final chord and then but then there's still some little modulations inside it some little changes inside i always find that really thrilling and then the rest is another kind of looking for peace song well it is a very optimistic, great sounding record.

58:07Thank you. Do you want to play another song from it? Sure. Can I play it in front of me now? Sure, absolutely. Okay, great. Let's see how this goes.

58:27I used to be dreaming when I was driving. I used to be leaving when I was arriving. I used to be calling when I was walking. I used to be thinking when I was talking. I used to be counting when I was sharing. I used to be blanking when I was staring. I used to be rolling when I was parking. I used to be raining when I was sparking.

58:57Today, I do what's in front of me now. Today, I do what's in front of me now I used to be stopping when I was trying I used to be landing before I was flying I used to be haunting, not just remembering In the middle of summer, I was decembring Always rewriting what I was reading But also doubting what I was conceiving I used to be dropping when I was collecting I used to be building when I was dissecting

59:35Today, I do what's in front of me now Today, I do what's in front of me What's in front of me I do what's in front of me now I used to be missing when I was kissing Why wasn't I present? I could have been living I used to be dodging When I was catching I used to be dying I could have been hatching I used to be drowning When I was drinking I was only masking I could have been feeling You used to surround me Whenever you found me I could have learned more from The friends that have around me I used to be falling When I was leaning Catastrophe carding I could have been dreaming I was careening Looking for meaning Wish I was relaxing I could have been breathing Today I do what's in front of me now Today I do what's in front of me now Oh, there's too many lanes There's too much to see in the frame at once It's too much to contain

1:00:56Oh, there's too much terrain I can never explain it all It's too much for my brain

1:01:10I do what's in front of me What's in front of me I do what's in front of me now

1:01:26Beautiful. Thank you so much for coming in. Man, thanks for having me. It's a joy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks to Matthew Koss for taking us inside his creative process on Not A Surf's latest album, Moon Mirror. You can hear all of our favorite songs from Not A Surf on a playlist in the episode description. You can find this episode along with past episodes on youtube.com slash brokenrecordpodcast. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at thebrokenrecordpod. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan.

1:02:03Our engineer is Ben Toleday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music is by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond. The more you learn about your favorite artists, the more you want to know. Claude helps you keep digging, finding new threads and rabbit holes to explore.

1:02:42Whether it's discovering deeper meaning behind a detail in an interview, or figuring out the influence behind an artist's particular era, Claude thinks with you to find the next clue. If you can't get enough of the stories behind your favorite music and artists, Claude will help you discover new layers you didn't know existed. Try Claude for free at claude.ai slash brokenrecord. This is an ad by BetterHelp. We've all had that epic rideshare experience. Halfway through, you're best friends, and they know your aspirations to go find yourself in Portugal. It's human. We're all looking for someone to listen.

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