Noah Kahan

29:28So when people were like, oh, I'm getting this idea that you had, it inspired me to finish writing the song with the same level of specificity instead of making it more vague or trying to be more relatable. It did help influence the intention. I never like would change lyrics or anything like that. But I definitely feel like the input that I got was helpful. Yeah. You know, and comments. Sometimes like if I got a hurtful comment, like I would feel hurt for sure. Yeah. I always say like I do feel like hurt by hurtful comments and by people being mean or someone. You know, I get it. Like I get why people do that.

30:07You scroll across a video that like you didn't want to see. You're like, fuck you, asshole. And you're like, okay. you don't think about what it might be how it might be received totally i don't know if you ever left hurtful comments for anybody but now that you're like public and you're out there and you're reading comments about yourself has that changed the way that you comment i think in my past i probably did like i i was just like a kid like everybody else and i know what it's like to now that i know what it's like to be hurt like that yeah it it really makes you think about how talk to people I still feel I can read the 100 positive comments and one negative comment just fucks me up and it sucks because you're like you're so wrong I want to get into the weeds of this person and be like well this is why you're an asshole this is why you're wrong and then you do that and you've already lost you've lost time and you've lost confidence so I try to just do my best to not see them and not look at them what always helps me is when I have been in a place where you feel the need to lash out at people and to be hurtful to people and I know how lonely and fucking awful that that space feels and how empty it is and so i think when i see someone leave a comment like that i try to zoom in into their bedroom and like look at them and be like what are you going through right now do you really need me coming back uh and shitting on you right back or like does this person maybe just need to get that anger and pain out and if i can accept that and move on from that and it makes you feel better that sucks for you and that's what you're doing but i'm not gonna stand in the way or whatever your process is man like you got shit to deal with.

31:40Yeah, I love that. By the way, like I've been sure take docs. I watch all of them. And there was one where I think it was some sort of like, maybe like an eating disorder awareness month post. And I just really appreciate that you talk about just struggles that you've had or because we don't normally hear guys talk about body image issues or, you know, eating disorders or anything like that. So I just really appreciated that. Thanks. Yeah, that song, I never ever talked to anybody about that still even really and so that song was kind of surprised me with how I felt about how real it felt for me and how true it felt to my experience listening to that song and being like man I've never had an outlet for this feeling ever I've gone to therapy for a long time and I've made a lot of progress in my own life I think but that's something that I still haven't been touched on and so it felt like it surprised my lyrics and I guess the vulnerability and some of those lyrics surprised me.

32:40I won't name names, but I played that song on tour. I did it for the first time. It's really just a heavy song to play. It's hard for me to play it. So I played it once for World Mental Health Day, and people in my crew, guys on my tour, tough guys and guys that didn't say much or didn't speak much, privately took me aside and said, thank you for talking about that. And I don't want to keep the conversation that this is just a male problem. It's absolutely not. But it is, I think, more rare, at least in my experience, in my exposure, for men to talk about these things. And so I saw that in real time, what the impact might be for men struggling with eating disorders.

33:20And that was something that was really encouraging to feel like I had this really painful song and painful feeling that I wasn't alone in for a second. It was really nice. How has it been for you performing on TV, like dealing with things like that, knowing that you've had issues in your past? Like, you know, you recently played SNL, which is fucking awesome. And it sounds like it was always a dream for you. And you guys killed it. You sounded so good. Oh, thanks. And you had your hair slicked back. It was kind of like... Samurai, the samurai band bug. but how is that for you seeing yourself on tv do you like pick yourself apart are you proud of yourself like what's the reaction internally for you well i've done a lot of them at this point now so i feel like i used to pick myself apart a lot more it's so interesting like i get hair and makeup done and the hair makeup people and everyone is like that's how it looks great we just did your hair and makeup like oh i think that looks awful so i think my opinion on like what is attractive or what is like good is different than like what the greater public's is so i like go and be like man i should like wear my hair down and like throw it across my face and people are like no like pull your hair back so i i feel like i try to not pick myself apart and trust that people that are in charge of making me look good have done a good job but it is it is hard to see myself on stage it just is weird it's like unnatural i think to observe myself especially when i'm like in that moment on snl i was trying to have fun and hang out my band and enjoy the moment so much that like looking at that and analyzing that like it doesn't help me at all I think being critical of what you look like in a moment of letting go is um probably not healthy so I try not to but I was really happy because I saw myself and I was like that is me when I'm having a good time yeah you look like you're having a great time it wasn't like faux excitement or like you know bullshit like smarmy charmy shit it was like I was having a fucking blast hanging out in my band and my buddies.

35:14I was happy to see that come through in the way that I felt that on stage. What was the behind-the-scenes like at SNL? Did you get to go to the after party? What was it like being the live musical act? SNL was a trip. It was like a full-on, the entire thing was a trip. I had been home from tour for about a week and was kind of finally starting to feel like in my human, not everything's about me mode, where you're no longer promoting yourself on the road. and I was kind of withdrawing from the outward, talking to a lot of people, and I was quiet. And then suddenly it was like, down in New York, you're in the fitting in the green room.

35:51You're about to do the sound check. And there's all these famous people on the walls and you don't really even have time to process it. And then it's like, press and promo. Noah, how does it feel? Blah, blah, blah, blah. All these questions about me. And I started to be like, I felt like I was waking up from a long nap. I'm like, oh, fuck, I got to go back into this talk about Noah mode again. And so it took me a little bit to adjust. Is it like a week long process? So Wednesday night, we got there and we had the fitting wardrobe fitting Wednesday at the hotel. And then Thursday is like the first day of a rehearsal and soundcheck.

36:22And they filmed the promos. And oh, dude, filming the promo was so bad. I was like one of the maybe one of the most embarrassed moments of my career was, you know, they have like a little script they made for me that I got like literally five seconds before I had to do it. Emma Stone is right there with the other actor Sarah Sherman and they were standing there in front of the camera and I was like learning my lines and I was just shoved on stage next to them and like so I was so anxious. Do you have acting chops? Like did you know how to deliver a line? So this is the thing I always thought that I was like my band members like you gotta get into acting and like I always found myself to be I would you know not the two man horn I think I like I know my way around a joke I think I can be a little funny I can I got some deadpan shit going on.

37:07So I was like, I could crush this acting shit. It's just easy to fucking just say some shit and be funny and look funny. And I got on there and have never felt less in my element and more nervous. I was reading. I felt like I was like looking at like a PowerPoint and trying to read off the word. It was so bad. I felt so unnatural. So I just like went in the nervous, you know, survival mode and read the lines and didn't like improv at all. And so that was a tough one. and it kind of made me feel like I was cursed. I kind of felt like the whole weekend was going to... I was like, well, I just embarrassed myself in front of most of the crew, some of the cast.

37:43And on Saturday, I embarrassed myself in front of all of the crew and all of the cast and all of America as well. Like, my mind, I was so negative, you know? Like, this is a bad omen. Yeah. Just a little glimpse into my, like, confidence. I'm just like, I'm going to suck no matter what. And the next day was kind of nice. I got to, like, kind of recalibrate. The clip was posted on social media. people were generally nice no one was like no one was like no was the worst actor ever the expectation was not that i was going to be a great actor and so i i swallowed the pill of not being a great actor i was not asked to do any sketches i assume they saw the promo where like this guy's not going in a sketch which means i don't have to do that again let's just get my head around the performance on the day of the performance i was having trouble my voice and was i always have trouble my voice in the on the day of a big show like always it's like i feel like i have a cold like I psychosomatic vibes like my throat starts to hurt so all day I'm just like thinking about it drinking water and like trying to hype myself up and I pulled up to SNL wearing all black I had sunglasses at the nighttime like super douche mode like listening to Pusha T on my headphones I was trying to hype I was trying to feel confident that's like the dude in succession Kendall Roy literally like Kendall Roy like they drove me in like one of those nice town cars the driver he like held the door with me like what's up brother and then I get in and I'm listening to nostalgia by Pusha T and just trying to make myself feel like Kendall Roy for a second.

39:04So, I was like, it was actually Kieran Culkin was actually at the show that night, which is funny. I probably should have told him that. So we all, we went out and my best friends were out at the taping. I saw them up there and we performed the first song and we crushed it, I think, and had a lot of fun. And then before the second song, my little brother was like, dude, Malia Obama, Miles Taylor Scarlett Johansson are all right there what a crew and watching the show and yeah and so I was on the second performance I thought it was so funny to look up and see my high school friends then they'll look down and see Miles Taylor like the contrast was just hilarious and it just made it kind of fun and silly and we had a blast after party was very cool like super overwhelming and where's it at like at a like a club or a restaurant or is it at the actual SNL I think it's actually at the Illuminati headquarters.

39:58I think I had to cut a thing on my wrist and like, I don't know, some guy put my butt into a vial and then I got let in. Now, I don't know. Some were fancy and schmancy. They had like a menu with my name on it and Emma's name on it, which was hilarious. Yeah, all sorts of famous hot people milling around the room. Everyone looked famous. Like, it could have been the guy that like parks the cars and like I would have assumed that he was like an Oscar winning actor. Everyone to me looks famous and successful. Well-groomed. I felt like a fucking moron walking around there. Like my whole family by my side were all like, where should we go?

40:30And, you know, it was cool. We're going to pause for another quick break, and then we'll come back with more from Noah Kahn. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Oocla Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged.

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43:41Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. We're back with the rest of Leah Rose's conversation with Noah Kahn. So stick season must feel like it's like very much in the rear view mirror, even though you're out on the road. You just did a national tour. You're about to do a worldwide tour playing the music. But what like what have you been working on? What can you tell us about new music? We have a new song recorded called Forever that we've been playing on the road. And besides that, I just haven't had a ton of time. I've been writing new music, always writing and working on new things. But the stick season being such a natural and creatively fulfilling journey for me has kind of created this complex of I only want it to be like that.

44:29And so I simply haven't had a break in about a year. I haven't had more than like a week off in a long long time and so I'm just kind of giving myself the time I do get off to try to find that feeling and try to find that feeling of freedom and create creative fulfillment that I had back then and keeping new music or any commitments to like an album at arm's length and so I feel wrapped around something in that same way but still working on more collaborations uh and just trying to kind of find things to keep me excited any new collaborations you can talk about. I'm waiting for the Justin Vernon song to drop.

45:01Yeah, me and you both. I wish I could get one with Justin Vernon. Have you talked to him? Have you met him? I haven't met Justin yet. It was one of the most cool, crazy nights of my life. I met him at Hinterland. He's my hero. Getting to talk to him and getting a chance to pick his brain about music and about the industry, it was really interesting. A really cool experience. But I never want to be that guy that's like, dude, so cool hanging out with you. We got to get a collab in the work. you know like that's isn't that what people say though like you're like hey like let's do something yes and i hate it let's get a transaction in here man like now that we hung out like let's do something that boosts my career uh i think that's that that stuff grosses me out sometimes so i try to be careful about but i think at some point in the future i would absolutely love to collaborate with justin if he was ever interested in doing that but we have you know at least three more more collaborations coming that are really cool and with artists that I adore and that everyone adores.

45:57And I am excited for the world to see them. How are you feeling about the way that you've been covered or the way your story is written about? I know the New York Times just did a big piece on you. You were on the front cover of the Times. I saw at least the digital version. You were like right up there next to like Trump or something. How are you feeling about the way your story is being told? I think there's always going to be a framework in which people want to talk about you just because if you just get down to the complete and total story, you lose a form of narrative. I know people, you know, the reference to bringing back this era that nobody wants anymore and to feel like that is like a negative connotation for some reason has been confusing to me.

46:49I know that the pendulum really swung away from that in a musical way in terms of what was happening on the radio after the early mid-2010s. But I always found that music to be really well-written and incredibly powerful. So to hear that as maybe an attempt at an insult or a criticism or like a, God, we're so tired of this shit, I feel bad for the people who put their livelihood into making that music because I care about it a lot. And I think it's important. And, you know, that's been my only qualm. I happen to be being covered. I think it's cool that people care enough to talk about me. My friends from New Hampshire, I live in New Hampshire and Vermont, and people from New Hampshire are like, you're not from Vermont.

47:32People from Vermont are like, you're not from New Hampshire. That regional tension is definitely there. I've had to do a better job of being clear. You know, I'll talk to someone from California or somebody from New York, and they're like, we don't give a shit. You're like, you're in Canada. We don't give a fuck. Again, I think it's the nature of being a white male singer-songwriter isn't exactly a unique place to be. I think there's been many of me, at least this kind of vibe, white guy with a guitar. With feelings. With feelings, right? They said in the article, the most pop music's newest sensitive, Woodsman.

48:08I think an author, writer wants to find a way to make your story seem specific and to seem like it separates you. And so I think they're coming to a small town, coming to my house, and they're talking about how that looks and how that feels unique to my experience. Yeah. I feel like the way I've been covered has been very fair. I think I shy away from making myself a story. I do like to have my life be about the music and have my career be about the music. And if that's not enough to be on national headlines and I'll just play for a thousand people and be boring, I'm fine with that. I think I've kind of been thrust in this world of mass exposure that I'm still learning to handle and learning how to navigate.

48:54I don't know. It's a really weird process to describe if you haven't been through it. Yeah. I think what's hard is just never feeling like I'm alone. I'm already the guy that when I smoke weed, I'm like, everybody is looking at me. And so I'll get off an airport in Boston or in Vermont or wherever and be like, oh, everyone, I think people here actually are looking at me. And that's like an overexposed feeling. And then you find yourself like acting different because you know, like if people are watching you that you want to like come across as being normal looking or like not ticking your nose or fucking wiping your hands and your shirt or whatever.

49:28Like you feel like you're performing all the time. And I fucking, I don't know. I don't have much to say most of the time. I'm kind of just like a grumpy dude walking around the world. like for example yes two days ago i was in the car driving to another interview and uh in nashville and this person behind me was like tailgating me like a fucking psycho uh and i was like oh my god like this person's about like driving like a nut job they passed me and they're super close and swerving in and out i'm like what the fuck are you doing like out my window very new england not out my window but at my window and they look over and they're just filming me and i was like oh my god it's like i'm on the truman show dude like i'm like i can't have an authentic angry experience or like i can't have an emotional response to something because i'm so worried about it being like someone that's a fan or like hurting their feelings or coming across as being a dick or whatever but i was so exhausting gonna kill me i'm exhausted i'm tired i'm tired of i can't get killed in traffic just because i want to be polite you know yeah and then it makes you understand i'm sure now you have like a different level of understanding why some people like who are in the public eye or people who are like super famous like end up the way they end up i've i've never had more respect for him yeah you know i've never had more respect for somebody that says i don't want to do this anymore it has it's no longer about the music it's about everything else and and it hasn't become i haven't gone to that point for me um i have incredibly respectful fans like i really do they really respect me and my space and my privacy and my boundaries but man like just if you're somebody that doesn't like the attention and doesn't like um the demand of everything besides making music then i can only imagine why anyone would want to be you know famous or recognized as fucking invasive as hell right and that's so for me that is for being a woman and having the success and having you know the sexualization and the questions about your dating life and that's got to be fucking brutal and it's like having to put up with people asking about stuff that's not even about the music you know like that's about your personal life and about stuff that you don't put on display for people um fuck that shit for sure yeah if you ever want to fly into the boston airport with me and see a bunch of dads and their daughters turn around like you listen to that guy right and uh and you want to see how it feels it's not bad it's just like if you're tired or hung over dude oh bro being hung over and like having to like walking, having to take a shower.

51:53You just want to not take a shower some days and walk outside. You got to be taking a shower. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when you talk about I just want to stay focused on the music, like the fame thing can kind of come and go. And if it burns out, cool. As long as the music focus is there. How are you so sure that music is the life path? Have you ever thought about, oh, I might want to be, you know, like maybe I want to be an architect. like has there ever been another vision or is it always just been music there's never been never been anything else i think i've thought like critically and realistically like yeah it doesn't happen like what would i want to do and there are things that i could do i i've always said that i wish i could be uh i would probably do something like social work or psychology yeah something that like i'm really interested in just like people and their behaviors and what makes them tick and like what makes them what what they're about and how their past affects their future or whatever that's always been really interesting to me but like fundamentally no i've never had any other plan or vision for myself whatsoever like music and writing songs have been from the very beginning the only thing i've ever ever wanted that's so cool that you know that isn't it cool yeah it was cool when i got a record deal but it was not cool before when i was like this is all i want and i might not be able to fucking do it that would suck you know i'm just like so aware of like the sadness it is to see somebody that like tried to be a musician like it didn't work out and to see them like work in a cubicle afterwards and be like yeah that sucks dude because i know every single day you're like looking at the picture of you in the talent show and wishing that was you now and i could like see that picture in my head even when i was like 15 i was like oh dude i'm gonna be the guy in the cubicle like no no no and uh i was very grateful to have had the the drive but also the opportunity and the frankly the privilege of being in a place that allowed me to go to a recording studio and to you know parents that were like willing to say you don't have to go to college you know like you can go make take the record deal um i grew up in a wicked nice area that i think contributed a lot to the opportunity and the ability to take the opportunity combined with like what really was like even as a kid like a super crazy work ethic for music like i wouldn't do my homework i would get fucking c's and b minuses but like i would every day be writing a song or working on something like it was an every day for years and years grind for me.

54:11How did your parents think about you writing songs? Like, were they like, wow, we have like a musically gifted son? Or was it just sort of like thought of as a hobby? My mom was an author. And so she was very, I think from a certain point, she definitely saw some like potential and talent, I think, and helped me hone it and was like a really amazing resource for me growing up. Just having someone that knows their way around writer's block and writing process and creative struggles any number of them knows how to kind of have been there before because writer's block, that shit's hard and to get through that is really hard and it happens at every level.

54:54Some people say there's no such thing as writer's block and maybe that's true but I think we can all agree that sometimes you just don't have anything to say and you feel like you can't get the words out and my mom would just sit me down and give me a blank piece of paper and say write for 30 minutes write anything that comes to your head doesn't matter what it is write things down because the muscle memory kind of does kick in after a little while you start to like remember how to work it i think if you go into that mode of like i'm gonna wait until i'm inspired to make music or to write something is when you can get into some real trouble because the time since you last wrote your thing gets greater and greater and your your muscle isn't as isn't as worked out and you're frustrated at yourself for not being as good as you were the last time and i think if you build slowly each day trying to putting a pen to paper that you can really work your way out of those things do you have like a specific set of conditions that you found lead to writing a good song like i interviewed matt berniger the lead singer of the national and he said his thing is like weed and iced tea in the afternoon like that combo that's awesome it's kind of perfect I think the most consistent thing has been weed.

56:02Honestly, like I do really work right well when I'm like smoking weed or getting high. And I don't know, it just kind of takes me away from like my inner dialogue for a second or like at least changes it. Vermont really is like, you know, here goes the sensitive woodsman again. Vermont really is a place that is conducive to like inspiration for me. I feel really like myself there. I feel very comfortable there. I think the biggest common denominator between all the good songs that I've made have come from a fuck it mindset whether that be like this will never be released so I might as well write it or I've been writing all day I've made absolutely fucking nothing good I'm angry at myself, I'm upset and then suddenly there it is just that release of just being like I'm just going to give myself up to whatever comes out of my mouth or whatever gets written down next So I think weed, a level of disinterest and being in Vermont is helpful.

56:59And then how high are you getting? Are you getting dumb high or are you microdosing high? Typically microdosing, but sometimes I'll get dumb high. I always say to my friends, I wish I could be an hour after you smoked weed. That's what I wish I could be the entire time. The first five minutes of being like, oh, fuck. I got to call my mom. I'm like, I shouldn't be in the car right now. It's happening. And then the hour later when you've gotten over the hill of being too high and you're like, oh, I just feel relaxed and chill and funny and good to be around. That's kind of where I need to get to.

57:35It's never right away. The stuff I make right away is so bad. I feel like I'm doing Sergeant Peppers and just making weird stuff that sounds off-tune and bad. I mean, Sergeant Peppers is all I'm saying. Amazing. But the experimental stuff, I'm like, that's not. that's get me back to C and F free jazz yeah exactly you mentioned earlier listening to Pusha T like since people love music recommendations like what else do you listen to like what you're loving yes I'm loving lots of stuff right now but let me pull up what I'm listening to yeah okay I'm listening to this Waxahachie song Problem With It which I really like this guy Craig Finn made the song God of Chicago Sam Fender recommended him to me and it's really fucking awesome the new Hosey record I think it's incredible.

58:21I'm getting into Out G on my moody shit. That's on Poison Root. I really enjoy. He's super cool. So fucking cool that shit, dude. So cool. I love that. I love that freedom of just being like super loose with the genres. Yeah. I don't know. I'm getting the vibe that you might, that might be in your future at some point. I think that's kind of the thing with like all these cool things that have happened this year. So I'm like checking off all these amazing boxes so that on my next thing, I'm not like, well, I got to play the song and it gets, I got to write the song that gets me on SNL. I already did SNL, dog.

58:49I got a Grammy nomination. I'm going to go make the music that I want. Whatever. I've achieved all these cool things. Now I feel like I have the freedom to do whatever I want because I've pretty much done everything I've ever wanted to do in my career. I feel like that's what people say before they get hit by a car or something. So I'm knocking on wood. The bad omens again. Yeah. You're getting a real insight into my brain. I hope this makes for a good podcast. Perfect. Are you already starting to think about what you would say if you win the Grammy? Yeah, I'm going to thank my mama for sure. If I won a Grammy, I would thank my mentor, music mentor that I met when I was a younger kid who taught me how to be in a band and put me in a band and taught me everything about recording.

59:33That guy changed my life. He showed me, taught me what it was like to be a rock star. I would thank tons of people, all the label and the management and every person that's got me here. But I think I would do a little shout out for my younger self because when I was a kid, I would practice my Grammy speech to make myself fall asleep when I was a little kid. and when I got my Grammy nomination I was like fuck yeah my 8 year old self or my 10 year old self he's probably pumped right now Is that huge validation for you? It actually is yeah and I'm not somebody that feels the need for like total validation from like the greater music community or whatever but for some reason the Grammy just like man it just was really was one of the greatest moments of my life and felt like nothing can erase the fact that I got nominated for a Grammy and no level of failure or irrelevancy or whatever happens in my career.

1:00:21I'll always be able to look back and say, hey, at one point, I got nominated for a Grammy and that's something that I can say the rest of my life. And that's fun to have those things. They're very few and far between at a musician's career. Hell yeah. Congratulations on all the success, but also I can't wait to hear what you put out. Hell yeah. Well, thank you. And thank you for all the thoughtful questions and for giving me things to think about on my own, honestly. It was fun to talk to you and just think that you're great. So thanks so much. Thanks to Noah Kahn for taking us through his incredible year.

1:00:54You can hear the deluxe version of his latest album, Stick Season, along with some of his other music on a playlist at brokenrecordpodcast.com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash brokenrecordpodcast, where you can find all of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month.

1:01:35Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.

1:01:50The more you learn about your favorite artists, the more you want to know. Claude helps you keep digging, finding new threads and rabbit holes to explore. Whether it's discovering deeper meaning behind a detail in an interview or figuring out the influence behind an artist's particular era, Claude thinks with you to find the next clue. If you can't get enough of the stories behind your favorite music and artists, Cloud will help you discover new layers you didn't know existed. Try Cloud for free at cloud.ai slash broken record. Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty, if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive.

1:02:29The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them. Machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. This episode of Broken Record is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Traveling is one of life's greatest joys.

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1:03:42This is an iHeart Podcast.