Rickie Lee Jones

23:27Oh,

23:33away from the sky

23:44Away from the sky

23:57But everybody's gone now It's after the fair The horses are waiting in the middle of the air

24:14So you turn the carousel on When the lights close down You can watch the ponies run Through the middle of town

24:31There you go, little gal, there you go Gone from the tundra now It's after the fair It's when I

24:55Over the fences again And the vacuum in the hole And the planes up in the air That's where I Can hear you best

25:28Oh, away from the sky

25:37Oh,

25:42away from the sky

25:52All away from the sky

26:03All away from the sky

26:33That was Rikki Lee Jones performing her song, Away From the Sky. We have to take a quick break and we'll be back with more from Bruce Hedlum and Rikki Lee Jones.

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27:27And that's not even mentioning how the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide and access to one-of-a-kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. Whether you're booking your next big trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve makes travel more rewarding. Discover more with Chase Sapphire

27:55I firmly believe when it comes to the holidays, you fall into one of two camps. Someone who loves holiday music or someone who won't admit they love holiday music. There's something about a voice you love singing that familiar opening phrase. Maybe it's Donny Hathaway. Maybe it's Mariah Carey. That just flips a switch and you're instantly back into that warm and cozy headspace only the holidays can bring. For me, that feeling pairs perfectly with a cup of Starbucks caramel brulee latte. That's their signature espresso with steamed milk and a rich caramel brulee flavor topped with whipped cream and a crunchy caramel brulee topping.

28:28It's like the sound of the season, but in drink form. And that's really what this season's about. Little moments of pairing, little moments of connection. Sharing a song, sharing a story, sharing a caramel brulee latte. Because this season and every season, together, is the best place to be. Come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks.

29:14overwhelming or when emotions run high or when I look up and realize half the year has somehow disappeared. Just having one hour a week that's completely yours can cut through all the noise and bring real clarity. If therapy is something you've been considering, December is actually not a bad time to take that step. BetterHelp connects you with licensed therapists in the U.S. who all operate under a strict code of conduct. They handle the matching process, you fill out a brief questionnaire, and they find someone who seems like a good fit for what you need. And if it doesn't click, you can switch therapists whenever you want.

29:43They've got over 30 ,000 therapists on the platform and have served more than 5 million people with an average live session rating of 4.9 out of 5 across more than 1.7 million reviews. This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10 % off at betterhelp.com slash broken. That's betterhelp.com slash broken. We're back with more from Ricky Lee Jones. It's interesting because I reread your your autobiography. And now you moved so much when you were a kid. Yes. It seemed that you were always having to reintroduce yourself or introduce yourself. That's right. Although you always did it, it seemed to fill you with terror, the idea that you would.

30:28Yes. And that terror of people, basic mistrust and expectation that at some point they'll do their worst stayed with me. The playground seems to be ever with us, or I could just say with me, but it does seem like that scenario is playing out over and over again of a bully, kids who want to follow the bully just so they don't get picked on, a couple kids who are, one's different or one's just poor. It's always the same dynamic of who's on top and who's underneath. And I think the fact that I was a little different, though I didn't think so, but I think I must have been, gave me someone to be so that I wasn't anonymous.

31:20Because I guess more than I hated being picked on, I hated being invisible. So I accepted that. But I really never understood why. I'd look in the mirror and go, aren't I pretty? Why don't they like me? And it's still a mystery to me. Really? Yes. You know, later in your book, you're very critical of what was sort of late stage hippies, sort of the people you hung around with. It seemed that when you were traveling, and you started traveling, I think at 14, didn't you? Hitchhiking. Hitchhiking. And, you know, you lived in a cave for a while. There were other people in the cave, too, but it was still a cave.

32:05You know, it seemed that, you know, particularly a lot of the men you met were very... The usury. They're very predatory. And they were the hippies. They talked a good game. But a lot of them were very abusive. Well, I was really young, and I believed what I read, my impressions of what it would be like to be a grown-up in that world, to be an active member of their idea of what life should be like. But those people were just greasers a little bit older, right? They were just the tough kids at school in 1962 or whoever they were. I saw them as magically appearing with long hair like Christ. And so, you know, I was definitely needed a place to stay and needed something to eat.

33:06And the cost of that was my body. And, you know, that was very hard. to sometimes I just wanted to be able to rest and not have to struggle with some guide. Would he relent and not try to put his dick in me, or would that be the cost of having a night of food? I have never actually said that so starkly and truly because it was so hard. and a little kid, you know, and then getting up the next day. You're lucky if it's the next day, and they don't want you there anymore. And I think every single guy I met, I thought, will he marry me? Is he the one who'll love me? Every one of them. And so that was lots of disappointments.

34:03But I have many years to think about it, and thought I was really just a very little kid in a woman's body in a costume that looked like old enough for them. I think some of them would have withdrawn if they knew my true age, but most of them, no. I think it was kind of cool, right, to be attracted to a young teenager. They still sell that image a lot, schoolgirl. Like, hit me, baby, one more time. Britney Spears. Yeah. She sold that image as well. So as long as we let that image be sold, then, you know, that stuff is going on in reality. I do want to talk about a nice guy. Yes, let's. Your producer on this project, Russ Teitelman, who was one of your first producers.

34:58Yeah, my first. Your first? He was your first? I had two producers, Lenny Warricker and Russ Teitelman. And I'd seen Linny, I didn't know from producers, but I saw Linny's name on the back of a Randy Newman record. It was about two years maybe before I got signed. Most people would have wanted to meet Randy Newman. You went into the small type. That's right. I've always known that's the way in. You can't go for the big thing because everybody wants to meet Randy. But if you find, I was an infamous getter in backstage girl, and I'd watch the secret way that nobody was going and just slip in that way.

35:42So that was the same philosophy of how to get in. So anyway, his name, and so we sent tapes around to three or four people. He got one of them. And I was exactly right. He was the way. And I pushed, you know, when the record companies went to sign me. This little, I think it was called Portrait or something, this little company made the best offer, and we went back to Warner Brothers. My lawyer, a big shot working for free, we talked him into, I'm going to be a big shot, and said, you know, she wants to go with Lindy, so if you'll meet the offer, I don't know if that's okay to tell that story, but if you'll meet the offer, we'll come with you.

36:32And that happened exactly as it was meant to. So Linney sent the tape to Russ because they were partners in production. Russ was working with George Harrison in England, and he tells this story a lot now that we're reunited. So when he heard company, he called Linney and said, this girl is a singer. She's like Roberta Flock, which is a pretty big compliment. And Lenny said, I hadn't really noticed. I was listening to the songs. So they were perfect, him addressing the songs. We got to put an accordion on the bridge because the Italians are there and him addressing the singer. You got to go sing that line again.

37:20So it was good. Yeah, it's hard to imagine now just what an incredible period that was for you. You'd only been writing songs for, what, a couple of years maybe? You were living in L.A. I was homeless in the months before I was signed. I just tumbled into having nowhere to go. What was it like? Suddenly these record companies are bidding for you. Yeah, it felt as if it was always supposed to be that way. Did you always think that growing up, that this was going to happen? No, but I always felt that I was going somewhere special. I always felt like I was always talking to the invisible world, and God's camera is right about here, so all you've got to do is look up and say, hey.

38:07So it's hard to explain what I always thought, but I feel a constant connection to something that almost has no words. but is ever present in here. But I can't say that I did. My life was troubled and going nowhere. I didn't have any skills. I'd quit high school. But I had this, when I sang, it was all that I am. Anything I sang was totally emotional. And then I got this job as a singing waitress, and everybody else was so much louder than me. I thought, I'm going to have to learn how to sing louder or I'm never going to get a job. So I taught myself. There was a book and I put my hands on my chest and found a way to put that sound in the bones and practice.

39:08And that was the first, you know, because I always thought I was a great singer. But the fact was, I could be a great singer, but I wasn't. So I taught myself to be a better singer. As soon as I did that, within a year, it presented itself to me. It was just life presented itself to me. Did you not know you wanted to be a singer before that? What made you finally focus on that? You know, since I was 16, I'd been practicing, you know, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes and singing and playing with my girlfriend Julie and playing everywhere. But when I was on my own and got to L.A., it seemed like that will never happen.

39:52It's a town full of people trying to do it. And you're so weird. You're not like Joni Mitchell. You can't sing like Joan Baez. You're so weird, right, because you're different. And so somebody will come. They might not all, but somebody will come because you're different. They'll like that about you. And I had this natural thing for jazz. My father sang jazz, and his father was a vaudevillian. And I began to, you know, what I know how to do is my funny valentine. And so I started singing the jazz ballads in Venice, and nobody was doing it, so that felt powerful. I have something that's just mine, and I did it really well.

40:39And the local snooty musicians suddenly were like, we like you, come and sit in with us again. So I started to feel like I had a possibility of an identity. And then in a short time, I had my own Friday night gig at a bar. And then a short time later, I was making a demo for a record company. So once I set aside doubt and my mother said, I said, Mom, I'm going to go to school and be a stenographer. I've only got to go 18 months and I'll have a job. She said, but I thought you wanted to be a singer. Imagine. And I said, I did, but I just can't see how that would ever happen. And she said, don't you give up on your dreams.

41:33Interesting, because your mother had had a very tough life. Very tough. She'd been an orphan. Yeah. Your father lost his mother very young as well. So they were both... They had that in common. And she seemed to live a very controlled life. That's right. She had to keep things... She kept things together. ...for other people. It's interesting that she was the one who said to you, I thought you wanted to be a sinner. I know. It was almost divine. like the other voice said, we got to speak through Betty right now or she's going to give up. Don't give up on your dreams. Yeah, it was unexpected and so heartfelt that I thought, my mother is invested in me trying with all my might to make a dream come true.

42:20And it almost seemed like it was more she wanted me to try, but I thought maybe she thinks I can do it too. She's not here. She doesn't see what's happening, but she believes me. When you got into the studio for the first time, you played with bands, and you had fabulous players. I did. You had Steve Gadd. Andy Newmark, Willie Weeks, the incredible Victor Feldman, who was in Miles Davis' band and did all that Steely Dan work. So one of the things about when we're at the top tier players is they're very kind. It's the other ones that jab me a little bit. But the best players are very kind, and they love making music.

43:06And so I couldn't write it, but I could sing it all. So I sang all the horn parts, and somebody wrote them down, and they played them. And they were exactly how I thought they would sound in my head. But the other aspects of recording, like Chuck, he's in love and stuff, as it manifested into the physical world, it wasn't at all what I, I only ever heard my voice and me. So, so the producers endeavored to bring to reality, whatever feeling they thought I had and their own, you know, how to, how to make a good record. I think their choices were always much cleaner, tamer, precise than I might have gone.

43:55And I'm glad, you know, and I've known people like this about me best, I think, than the more raggedy stuff. But they took me out gently, took out my guitar playing, and put in Buzzy P. So what was that like, that incredible year you're signed, You make this record with these amazing players. You're on Saturday Night Live. Yeah. You argue with them on Saturday Night Live, which I thought was pretty gutsy. Yeah. They wanted you to do one song you wanted to do, Coolsville. I did. Yeah. I remember seeing that Saturday Night Live. Everybody does. It was a, you were suddenly huge. Yeah. And you had a check for$50 ,000.

44:42That's right. What was the first thing you bought with that? probably, you know, dinner. First of all, I had nowhere to put it. I didn't have a bank account. So when I got that check, I still had to borrow some money from Lenny because I didn't have cash. And really, I didn't know how anything worked. I didn't know how to have a bank account or how to tip. So what was that like? You know, it's almost like the whole life was holding his breath. So for a little while, everything was just shimmering and still and right. That's what it was like, I think. But you beat the second album, Curse. I did.

45:29You did Pirates. I meant to, too. Really? Were you that? I was well aware of it. I had met Bette Midler at a dinner. Was this before your record? Yeah, before the first record. Oh, okay. Because you thought about writing for her. And he said, let me tell you what's going to happen. You're going to put this one out, and if it doesn't do horrible, they'll pick up your second one, and not till your third record will you have any kind of acclaim or success. And that was kind of what happened to most people. And that was, I thought, nah, we'll see. I think my first record's probably going to do pretty good.

46:04So when we had the big success, so big, bigger than anything, Hard to find a woman who had had that kind of success coming out the gate. Though, you know, they probably weren't tallying it up in the 60s in exactly the same way. But it was a very big thing. And it was a crossover kind of thing. And culturally, I got to expand the idea. You know, I was a singer-songwriter, but I wasn't a folky. And these things sound small now, but they were big, making people accept that it works, it'll make everybody money, and it's different than what was before. So I know I can't match this record in any way.

46:52I'm not the same person. I'm not as happy. And those are a lot of beautiful, happy songs. And I'm not on this side of the mountain anymore. so from the other side of the mountain I will draw the picture of what I see fiercely and I won't give one eyelash to the idea of a song that you'll play on the radio and so a little bit of it is defiance and that's okay, you can't help but not respond to what's happening you know if that hadn't happened what would I have written I don't know so what I wrote was what was happening to me and I think that the incredible thing that happens with the recording is it captures more than the song itself it captures your intention and it captures your spirit that's the inexplicable thing about a great record is it has spirit and people put it on the list of their important records.

48:00I personally think the first record is important, but I don't exactly know why Pirates matters more. I'm guessing people who put it on their favorite list don't know it's the second record, so they don't know it's overcoming expectations. But I like it. It's dreamy. It's remarkable in its musicality and sophistication for a girl who had no education. But I like a song I can sing, like I was saying. I like a melody that you remember. I don't know if anybody can sing the traces of the western slopes. So I don't mean to insult myself, but I'm glad that it hit with people. But then the curse probably came some years later.

48:50I took a long time to make the third record. It was 1984, I think. So I had gone in and out of heroin addiction. And a couple of times I had drunk on stage. Not many, but the times I did, there was a big full-length photograph in a newspaper. And the promoters, the promoters union exiled me from many stages. Guys did much worse. But I think that there was an expectation of proper, pristine behavior from me because of the quality of the work. We don't like our girls to behave badly, and they want to think of a woman as a tragic falling figure. And so many people want to disrespect anybody instead of loving, forgiving, spreading that goodwill.

49:54So I was in a really defensive posture when I did the magazine. I was off drugs, and I wanted everybody to know it. And I did a cover looking really off drugs. Yeah, you were very healthy. Very healthy. And I was super healthy. But I spent some time in France, and I was leaning towards a more classical kind of music now. I'd heard Eric Satie, and it was expanding in another way. So these are weird. This was the one album I wrote that I wanted to do theater with it. So this was the direction I would have liked to have grown in in some version of my life to write for theater and act. But at that point, I seemed to be just collapsing emotionally.

50:52The broken love affairs, the trail of dead, and the very beginning of living with Tom Waits for the rest of my life because nobody would stop asking me about him in every interview. Aside from that, it was kind of emotional. It's like, but aren't I a musician? You have no respect or interest in the person who's sitting in front of you now. If you want to talk to Tom, phone over there, call him. But why do you want to talk to me about that? so you know there were years where I was resentful and angry and tell them if they mention it they'll be escorted out and all these things till finally I don't know in the last 10 years I went isn't that wonderful we have lived together all our lives that brief time that beautiful time.

51:49It was so remarkable to audiences and so enchanting. We looked like we belong together, that song, and they won't let it go. Isn't that wonderful? And would have liked to have had some peace with him, but that did not and would never happen. And that turned out to be just as hard as living with the questions 20 years ago. But now I'm... You mean living with the unresolved? Yeah. And also, the pain of this breakup was really hard. But to be reminded by every passing stranger who comes to talk, especially in Europe, they really want to know. Poke at it all the time. And did you think that your persona became the kind of spurned woman or is that the role people put you in?

52:48Yes, I betcha. Yeah. Yes. Spurned woman, that would be an assumption. Sure. But then when he became very popular, then it was more like we want to touch you because you're part of the purple of Tom Waits, the purple cloth. So at that point is where that would probably happen. No offense to Tom Waits. He's never been as popular as you were, though. Oh, so much more. Sells so many more tickets. You know, I see him as more popular than Bob Dylan, you know. There are so many people copying his style. I'm just like in awe. How did that happen? That's what I saw. You didn't see that? Never had an album that was as big as your first couple albums.

53:38But I think some cultural thing, I remember the guy in Nine Inch Nails talking about him when my daughter was probably 95 or 96. And that was when he seemed to take on this other alternative world status of a golden god. And I was one of the women who had touched him. And that was the hardest part. That was the hardest time in the 90s when people were like, we don't even know what you've written, but you were Tom Waits' girlfriend and that we want to talk about. Whereas before, it was like, we love your music and you talked to us about your broken heart. But now I go, look, it's part of the legend of human beings.

54:24And when we're gone, we'll still be there together. We're one of the lovers. Isn't that wonderful? Come on. You gotta love that. We'll be back after another quick break with more from Bruce Hudlum and Ricky Lee Jones. This episode of Broken Record is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Everybody loves to travel, right? We can get away as a once-in-a-lifetime vacation, all of it. And no matter where you're going, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. Travel is its own reward, you know. You're out there having experiences you can't have any other way, and with your Chase Sapphire Reserve card, you're also being rewarded.

55:07You earn eight times points on all purchases through Chase Travel. So let's say you book a trip to Hawaii, you go surfing at Sunset Beach, you go hiking on a volcano, and you go out to dinner. With the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, you're actually earning points for going on a grand adventure, anywhere you go, any trip you take. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge by the club. at select airports nationwide and access to one-of-a-kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. Whether you're booking your next big trip or a week in Escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve makes travel more rewarding.

55:41Discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve at chase.com slash sapphire reserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. I firmly believe when it comes to the holidays, you fall into one of two camps. someone who loves holiday music or someone who won't admit they love holiday music. There's something about a voice you love singing that familiar opening phrase, maybe it's Donny Hathaway, maybe it's Mariah Carey, that just flips a switch and you're instantly back into that warm and cozy headspace only the holidays can bring. For me, that feeling pairs perfectly with a cup of Starbucks caramel brulee latte.

56:18That's their signature espresso with steamed milk and a rich caramel brulee flavor topped with whipped cream and a crunchy caramel brulee topping. It's like the sound of the season, but in drink form. And that's really what this season's about. Little moments of pairing, little moments of connection. Sharing a song, sharing a story, sharing a caramel brulee latte. Because this season and every season, together is the best place to be. Come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks.

56:48Every December, we start singing. At church, around the fire, in our cars, with the radio turned up. But have we ever stopped to ask, where did our favorite Christmas carols come from? And what makes them so magical? I think it's probably one of the most perfect tunes to play and to sing. The voices are converging. They're adding this more complex and chromatic harmony. And it gives us that climactic arrival point. Hark is a podcast about the meaning and the making of Christmas carols. Get into the spirit of the season and listen to Hark, the stories behind our favorite Christmas carols. Available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at americamagazine.org.

57:40We're back with the rest of Bruce Hedlum's conversation with Ricky Lee Jones. Can we talk about a couple of your songs? Let's do it. You mentioned Company, that that was the song that, Was that Russ that liked Company or was that? That was Russ. Russ. What did he tell you he heard in that? He said that Lenny sent this cassette to him, which was the demo I made at Warner Brothers, you know, to entice him to co-produce. Because like I said, I went with Warner Brothers if Lenny would produce me. So he said, you know, he heard the first couple of songs. Chuggies in Love, my dad's song, The Moon is Made of Gold, one that didn't get on the record called The Real Things, Back in Town, and then Company, which I wrote with the only co-writer I think I've really had, who is Alfred Johnson.

58:31He and I wrote that song one night together. The story of writing Company was, so I had a job briefly working for this gangster named Rocky Miller. Rocky was a real gangster, and he'd show me his money in his sock, And he wore garters, stays, I guess they're called, I think. And he was a real creep. And he'd make me sit on his lap. He'd call me into the office and say, come over here. And I go, I don't want to come over there. He said, come over here, I'll fire you. And so I'd sit on his lap like an angry teenager, which is all you can do in 1978. And that was the terrible part of the job. But the great part was that I had access to a typewriter all day long.

59:25And when I had a typewriter, another kind of lyric came out. And so I sat there and wrote the lyrics to Youngblood and Company and the beginnings of something else. So I have my little notebook and files full of lyric ideas. and I met Alfred on the beach in Venice. He was playing some Little Feet, maybe. I was standing there listening to him, and I'll sing a little bit. I'll sing with him. And he looked at me, kind of, and so I said, do you know any Laura Nero? And little stars floating out of his eyes. And then he invited me over to his house, and I said, okay. And I got in between him and his friend, and we drove a mile down to Culver City.

1:00:26And then we went into his house, which just like I stay now in this motel, right by where his house was. And as we walked in the door, there were dismembered dolls everywhere, and dolls hanging from things and heads here. And right away I went, oh, cool. And it was like I passed the test with them because you had to decide right away, are you dead? Or is this some kind of goofy art installation? And there were two men, you know. But I was pretty sure he was a kind of odd musician. And right away, we had this powerful language together. And then a few weeks later, we wrote company together, which was kind of like having a love affair.

1:01:19By the end of the night, we were done. But we wrote every single bar entwined together. And it's a beautiful, odd lyric. When I reach across the galaxy, I'll miss your company. And in that way, it was a little different than a regular You're Leaving Me song. That's one of the only straight-ahead lyrics I wrote about you and what you're doing and how I feel. Normally, I would have made up some guy, somebody's name and how she feels. It has an old-fashioned quality, though. It sure does. It has an old-song book quality for that reason. At that time, we were writing, thinking maybe we'd get these songs to famous people.

1:02:07Chucky's In Love was kind of aimed at Bette Midler, and Company was aimed at Frank Sinatra. And when I got signed, I told Mo Austin, who was a good friend when I was there, and Lenny, would you take this to Frank? Because they'd fly over to the desert for these meetings. So they said, we're taking it to Frank. And then they didn't tell me. how the meeting went. So what happened? Is he going to do it? And they said, you don't want him to do it. One said, he can't hit those notes anymore. I don't know if I should say this on there, but the other one said, and anyway, he wants some publishing for anything he does.

1:02:48So I don't know if you want him, he won't even consider doing it unless he has the publishing. Is that right? Yeah. Well, that's what they said. Okay. Because I guess he had his own writers at that point. Anybody. You know, it's greed, yes, But when you're that powerful, if he records the song, the world will hear it. So what is a publisher anyway? They're the guy who's supposed to bring the song to the world. And they should get their half of the penny if they do that job. We folkies bought our own publishing, but also didn't take our songs to anybody. So, you know, everybody had said, you must keep your publishing.

1:03:29As you age, it's going to be the only way you keep making money. And, of course, they were right. But I probably, you know, with Alfred's permission, would have given up the publishing on that if Frank. Right. I mean, at least it seems from here that I might have. Now, were you always a fan? Of Frank? Yes. Oh, yes. Yes, always. My father was a singer. The timbre and style of him is like the Mills Brothers and Frank Sinatra. And my mom had a schoolgirl crush on him. So he, more than any other singer, felt like he was telling my story when he sang. Any woman, anybody, until I heard the Beatles, whose collective harmony was otherworldly to me.

1:04:18But those were my two main guardian angels initially. And then it expanded. Throughout your career, you've done cover records. You tend not to mix them with originals. Yeah. You've done Rebel Rebel. You did For No One. So tell me about this album, how it came about. Yes. Why these songs? And is there a story you're telling with these songs? There is not a story I'm telling with them. they were picked because I could sing them well and I wanted people to know I was a jazz singer but there was a journalist a couple weeks this is important to me because I hadn't really gotten this feedback so clearly there was a journalist a couple weeks ago who said I saw you in Cleveland in 1979 and you opened with Chucky's In Love and we were going what is she going to do now And then you introduced us to Dinah Washington and Billie Holiday and Sarah Vaughan.

1:05:23And I was like, there it is, what I waited all my life to hear, and heard it here or there. So that's as important that long ago in the long ago history, I was singing it, peers were loving it. But the jazz world said, you are not allowed in here. You cannot enter. Did you feel that? You betcha. Early in your career? All throughout my career. Was it things people said or just? And I've figured out, I think partially, you know, because there are unusual. First of all, women are the last person allowed in the room. Singers and women singers. But if you didn't only sing jazz, you can't come in. If you sang a pop song, you can't come in.

1:06:20You have to have exclusively devoted yourself to this one discipline, or you can't come in. I called the jazz station in Long Beach, 10 years. I said, would you play Rick and Lee Jones? Hi, Lily, hi, Lily. He said, no, we don't play Rick and Lee Jones. Okay. Is that like on the wall behind you? We don't play regularly. Your picture was a big X. Yeah. And, you know, it hurt. It always hurts to have people go, we've decided what you are no matter what you do. So I did jazzy songs with some pop in them. I always mixed it up a little bit. And after Pop Pop, which got really weird reviews, you know, It was my 40th birthday, and one of the great bebop players, Joe Henderson, had played on two songs.

1:07:18He came to the party and at a moment took me aside and said, I just wanted to tell you that I was sorry to see that you didn't make another record because I really thought you were on to something. And it was a revelation because this is from a musician. And you're listening to critics. Stop it. So it took a long time. And for whatever reason, I found myself thinking about Russ Teitelman. I need to be in the loving care of a real producer who not only knows what they're doing, but loves the sound of my voice. And I looked him up. I was thinking we would maybe work on some of my new material, but he said, I want to do a jazz.

1:08:11I want to do a jazz record. You have not done the American Songbook. That's what we're going to do. And so I said, okay. And we began to exchange ideas. But what happened was I knew in the last two years that my voice has begun to change a little because of aging. Not a lot, and I don't smoke and I take good care of it, but it was thinning here and tired there. And jazz is the most demanding, I think. Because in other things you can yell, You can put that up in the back of the throat and hit anything, but if you're going to do quiet stuff. What seemed to happen when I started is this, this other quietude that was a little bit saucy and sensual.

1:09:09She just stepped right up to the microphone and she knew just what she was doing. Like, who is this? I love her voice. It's got a lower thing, but right away I heard the command that I prayed I'd have and didn't expect, and there it was. So we made an extraordinary record that's kind of magic. We went full circle back to the time we left off our professional relationship at Pirates. It's not like pirates, but something in the power of what happens when we work together was there. I think it stands well next to any beloved vocal work from the 50s or 60s. So because there's a feeling of sensual love and humor and all the things that you can get if you survive.

1:10:11I'm 69 this year if you survive you can bring all this stuff to your life and then bring it to the sound of your voice and to music and I think that's what's there is humor and the love of life and the idea that we're singing not for ourselves anymore we're not going to be here and maybe I will but I'm singing now for others and reaching out Right. That's a great place to stop. Thank you so much. That was just wonderful.

1:11:09Jason Gambrell, Ben Talladay, Nisha Vencutt, Jordan McMillan, and Eric Sandler. Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription service that offers bonus content and uninterrupted ad-free listening for only$4.99 a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions. And if you like the show, remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music is by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.

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