Shannon & The Clams

0:06Pushkin. This is an iHeart Podcast. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Ooclas Speedtest. And they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. That's your business, Supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com. Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the U.S.

0:48where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ookla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 1H 2025. Every great music conversation goes beyond the surface. The influence that shaped an artist's sound. The moment that changed their creative direction. The story behind the story that fans never hear. Claude helps you discover those deeper connections. Upload interviews, liner notes, or music journalism, and Claude reveals patterns across an artist's entire journey, showing how influences become innovations. Whether you're a music journalist, passionate fan, or someone who loves understanding creative processes, Claude matches your curiosity about what really drives great artists.

1:29Try Claude for free at Claude.ai slash brokenrecord. Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them. Machines that make you feel more human.

2:06Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. The band Shannon and the Clams were longtime regulars in the Bay Area music scene. The band's two main songwriters, Shannon Shaw and Cody Blanchard, met in college in Oakland, California and remained there for about a decade until a number of events set them adrift not only physically but also spiritually. There was a tragic ghost ship warehouse fire in 2016 that killed 36 people attending the show in Oakland. Then there was a dangerous situation where Shannon was a victim of a stalker.

2:44And if that weren't enough, there was also the death of Shannon's fiancée only weeks before their wedding day. The band's new album, The Moon is in the Wrong Places, is taken from a phrase Shannon's fiancé, Joe Hainer, uttered shortly before his passing. It's also the record's moving title track. Much of the new record is anchored in Shannon's grief, but there's also tender moments like The Vow, a song Shannon had written to surprise Joe on their wedding day. I spoke to Shannon Shaw and Cody Blanchard about moving away from Oakland, the aftermath of losing a friend and fiancé, and about their Dan Arbok-produced record, The Moon is in the Wrong Place.

3:26This is Broken Record. Liner Notes for the Digital Age. I'm Justin Richman. Here's my conversation with Shannon Shaw and Cody Blanchard of Shannon and the Clams. When the single The Moon is in the Wrong Place first came out, and when I realized it was the album title, my thought was, it might be one of the better album titles in recent memory. And then when I read the backstory, I got a little bummed out. I was like, Like where it comes from makes it even better in a sense, but it's obviously just a brutal way to come to it. And I don't know to what degree you want to talk about it or not, Shannon, but, you know, I don't know how to talk about this kind of stuff.

4:04So sorry. Well, we're not raised to talk about it or trained generally in America. It really seems like just so not a part of our culture. You know, the funeral marks the end of your time to publicly deal with the loss. But I'm not going that route. I can't go that route. It's not sustainable to me. What was your relationship with sort of life and death prior to this experience? And how has it evolved, if it has at all? It's, yeah, it's evolved a lot. You know, I've lost my grandparents, who I loved, but I was not very close with. And we had someone who used to drum for us years ago, committed suicide.

5:07And that was definitely hard. and then i would say the ghost ship fires was um it definitely yeah yes yeah that definitely took a lot out of us you know it's that occurred in like the same kind of spaces that we frequent and you know came up playing and and had some had some friends in there and everyone was just maybe one or two degrees away from us so it was uh that was a a really hard one but nothing has affected me like this before ever i think just having it be something from inside of my life disrupting every part of my life and changing my future drastically yeah How long after you lost your partner, Shannon, did you feel that you could reasonably move forward with music again?

6:19Pretty quick, right? Yeah, I never thought of it quite in those terms, because when I write music, it's usually coming from a place of, I need to get something out of me. you know the way I make music is it's processing emotions so it it shouldn't be a surprise that that's the route I took I mean since I was a little kid making up songs I started making up songs when I was really young five or so and uh not playing music I never ever I never thought I'd be a musician. That was a huge surprise to me. And I didn't start playing anything until I was 25. But it's always been a form of self-soothing to me.

7:14And now I see it as processing too. So songs started coming to me right away. What was the first song to come to you? I feel like it was maybe the bean fields, not like the melody or the music, but the concept. And maybe life is unfair, yet beautiful. Yeah. We were spending so much time just sitting in this crop. I don't know if you know, but Joe's pickup flipped into the bean field that he tended and himself. I don't know. It's ironic, I guess. But yeah, just me and his family and some friends just ended up spending so much time just sitting out there, you know, surrounded by this madness, you know, as a real juxtaposition between life and death being surrounded by all these blossoms and bees buzzing and, you know, the beans starting to come in.

8:23and then this big burnt out hole in the earth where his pickup had been. And we just ended up spending so much time there that I eventually hauled out this camping mat and me and his sister Beth would just lay out there night and day and eventually we dragged out chairs and a table and would meet there like every night and listen to music and talk and watch the meteor shower that had been going on. And I think being in that environment made me feel really inspired and blown away that I could still appreciate anything. And nature became a really big in your face, in my face, inspiration. and just being able to appreciate it in a new way and just kind of living in awe.

9:27Were you starting to trend that way? I mean, you had moved to your partner's farm outside of Portland. And from what I gather, it was a pretty beautiful piece of land. So, I mean, were you starting to trend towards being a person inspired by nature anyway? or was that period of mourning more of a time where that happened? I mean, I've always loved nature. I grew up in the country and I have always wanted, I mean, I spent 16 years, I think, in Oakland and then two years in Portland. And I would go back and forth between Portland and the farm. But I've always been a lover of nature, but it totally changed.

10:14I just started to take certain things really seriously, like feeling overwhelmed by the sunsets that we were seeing and overwhelmed by plants and bugs. And I felt like a new relationship with them. Yeah. That, Beanfields, is one of my favorite songs on the album, along with the title track. There's a couple others who's so lucky, The Vow. But Beanfields feels like for it to be one of the first songs you'd written is surprising to me. Because it feels like it's coming from a person who's fully processed things. I don't know. It seems like such a beautifully, you know, given the circumstances, like a beautifully formed way of thinking about what happened.

11:05Thanks. I think that one is something that really surprised me that I felt soon after the loss was gratitude. And, you know, it's a concept that I've always understood. But I think it wasn't until this event where I felt it, like, deep within me. Like, I have been so deeply grateful to have had Joe for the amount of time I've had him. And I feel like definitely forever changed by having his influence in my life. And I feel like I still am being inspired by him as a person. I constantly ask myself, WWJD, what would Joe do? I'm using him as a moral compass oftentimes. And I think that was part of the joy that you feel in the bean fields.

12:17I was afraid of that song at first because when I started really working on it, that's all that was coming out of me was like a joy, a celebration, an appreciation. I was so surprised to be writing something upbeat and I was afraid to embrace that because I was like, is that disrespectful or is it too weird too soon to put a joyous song on there? And, you know, I've answered my own question and it's no, absolutely not. You know, this grief has been a really massive range, you know, of emotions. And I think with the extreme depths of depression and darkness and nothingness that I've experienced, I've also experienced sheer joy.

13:18and celebrating feels so important. And really grasping any bits of light that I can find is so important to my survival. I'm so happy to hear that. I'm grateful that you've sort of found the strength or the sensibility or the courage to handle it the way that you have. It's been, though rough, kind of beautiful to watch as well. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Cody, as someone who's known Shannon, like, you know, obviously a very long time, how has the last couple of years been for you? I mean, right after Joe died, it was just fucking completely shattering. It was just like total destruction for me.

14:10and then to watch your friend have to go through this and deal with this is like yeah it's just annihilating just everything stopped you know like we just didn't do anything else just cancel everything yeah and you know shannon came and stayed at our house for a while because she was living in portland but obviously like didn't want to go back to their apartment. I mean, I even had a hard time going in there and I didn't even live there. I tried to just, I don't know, be like a point of light or be like the kind of friend that Shannon was used to. So be present and not like try to force anything, you know, not try to like really force shannon to talk about what she was feeling or or what's going on and to like allow moments of levity or find little moments of like joy or humor you know when we could yeah how long after shannon wrote bean fields did you hear it or see it i don't know if the words came first or if everything sort of came together i guess probably december or january so that was probably like four months because we we didn't really get together to work on stuff until january how did you feel about the things coming in the songs coming in from shannon we were trying to we keep talking about this we were trying to find another instrument for shannon to write on and we someone told shannon to get an omni chord because you can just push buttons and like it plays chords for you and it has a drum machine in it so that was i thought was really cool because it i think it removed the like translation step because there's often shannon's writing on bass and then we're trying to find these chords that work with you know what she's singing or you know like if you play a bass note and then you sing a melody on top of it it informs like what the key it's in or what chords would work with it right and if you change the bass note or something it would totally change the the relation between those two notes yeah but it like removed that translation kind of step and then shannon could just like play around with all these different weirdo chords and i think write more freely and then so like were the demos with omni chord on them that you're hearing oh that's yeah that's pretty cool like how did that inform i guess what you do then as a guitar player must have just given you like a kind of a pretty strong blueprint for what to do i guess yeah it still has to get glued together and i think like backing vocals and harmonies and stuff still come to you know like shannon usually has an idea for a backing vocal but it's just it's different when we all get together because we bring different like we sing in different ranges and have different ideas and we try we tried to like have a more free form you know like jam session where we were coming with really incomplete ideas and but i don't know it was cool and it was fun but we didn't actually produce that much usable stuff it just felt like everything was like upside down and we could try anything yeah right felt like a good time just to try a new playbook maybe but the stuff we kept from it was really stuff that had been pretty well like written before because we were recording in march and this was started in january so it wasn't like a ton of time to write stuff yeah how was writing on the omnicord for you it opened up a a whole new world.

18:00I mean, it just made, I was just overflowing with ideas that I couldn't capture because I just felt too limited on, on the bass. That's how I normally write songs. And I only know a handful of guitar chords and I'm not a good guitar player at all. I'm not even an okay guitar player. Do you try? Do you try? I try. I try. Yeah. Joe actually made me learn a few guitar chords in 2020. It was important to him that I learn a few. He was like, just trust me. You're going to love it. You're going to get it. It's just going to help you. You're going to love it. And I was so resistant because I hate being bad at stuff.

18:52And that's actually kind of how I wrote The Vow. I used the chords he taught me and wrote that song. Wow. Yeah, that's the one song that was written before he died. Because I was going to perform it at our wedding. As a surprise to him. Yeah. But yeah, it was going to be that really simple, simple song. and uh it made me furious that he was never gonna get to hear it you know I wouldn't have written it if he hadn't convinced me that I should learn a few chords and um I did get really addicted to guitar during lockdown and uh it had become a great tool to me I never got good but but yeah I was really sad for some reason that detail of all of the things that I was mad about I kept coming back to that song and it was just so naive you know it was so full of hope and joy and was written when I was the happiest I'd ever been in my whole life you know yeah um so I I guess I wanted that to be on the album um to tell the story of like look how fucking happy i was you know like we had our lives like together things were going great and uh that song was just such a symbol of of how much i believed in our union and uh how proud i was so i guess i just wanted to kind of share with people how it felt for everything to stop and that's essentially why we put the vow next to Hourglass, too.

21:04Because I feel like those two songs together sum up that nightmarish journey, you know, of the beginning. Yeah. We'll be right back with more from Shannon and the Clams after this break. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Ooclas Speed Test, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.

21:46With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged. With a network that adapts in real time, your business stays operating at peak capacity, even in times of high demand. With built-in security on the first nationwide 5G advanced network, you keep private data private for you, your team, your clients. And with seamless coverage from the world's largest satellite to mobile constellation, your whole team can text and stay updated even when they're off the grid. That's your business, Supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com. Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the U.S.

22:26where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ukla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 1H 2025. The greatest music stories aren't always in the songs themselves. They're in the late night studio sessions, the chance encounters, and the cultural moments that shaped entire movements. For music lovers who find themselves going down rabbit holes about their favorite artists, Claude, an AI thinking partner, helps you explore those deeper questions. Whether you're wondering about the connections between different scenes, trying to understand what drove a particular creative period, or exploring how social movements influenced sound, Claude works through these complex cultural puzzles with you.

23:07It's built for people who know that understanding music means understanding the human stories behind it. Claude doesn't just compile facts. It helps you see patterns across decades of music history, ask the kinds of follow-up questions that reveal deeper truths, and works through the nuanced relationships between artists, movements, and moments. Whether you're a music journalist, industry professional, or someone who just lives for understanding the stories behind the sounds, Claude matches your level of curiosity about what really drives great art. Try Claude for free at claude.ai slash brokenrecord and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner.

23:45This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. One of the things I think is universal to nearly everyone is that warm feeling you get when you find someone you feel comfortable sharing parts of your life with that otherwise you might just keep to yourself. Often it's a friend, sometimes it's a loved one, but in those moments you really take a load off. That's one of the things I've enjoyed most about therapy, that there's someone regularly in my life that I'm able to talk to about things I'd probably keep to myself for longer than I really needed to. And they're clinically trained and licensed to help.

24:16Plus, if you regularly see them, they have most, if not all, the context they need to really understand how this item you're sharing might be affecting you or those around you. That's where BetterHelp comes in. They've been helping people find their therapy match for over a decade. Because of their quality therapists that work according to a strict code of conduct, they have a 4.9 rating out of 1.7 million client session reviews. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp.

24:46Our listeners get 10 % off their first month at betterhelp.com slash broken. That's betterhelp.com slash broken. We're back with Shannon and the Clams. When did you decide to put the vow on the album or to revisit it as a song and rework it? I didn't show anyone until we were at this session in January when we were writing together. And I was like, knew that it would, could be potentially cruel. You know, I never know how real to get. And I decided to just be like, completely real. Like, I'm going to just share the devastation because I can't, I can't hold it by myself. When you say you, in the past or, you know, you're never sure how real to get, like, what do you think that instinct is protecting people also it's just hard it's hard and exhausting to be so vulnerable all the time yeah lately i'm just talking about my grief with press because y 'all are asking and i do find myself keeping certain thoughts to myself because they're so sad i don't want to like take someone's innocence away by by sharing them like with them like some of the extreme darkness that I live with now, you know?

26:23Yeah. But I don't, you know, I'm also really open. But if no one's asking, I'm not usually bringing it out currently. Yeah. Do you prefer people not to ask? I mean, where are you at with that? I want people to ask because it's my life now. This is my life. This is all I think about. and what is weird to me is if you are someone who loves me friends or family wise and it doesn't come up you don't bring it up you don't check on me or something that is disturbing to me yeah I like to think of it as a dresser I like to think of my relationships as a big dresser. And some of those people previously that were in my top drawer have had to go to the bottom drawer.

27:21I love them. But going back to what we first talked about, you apologize and said, I'm sorry, I don't know how to talk about this stuff. We do not know how to talk about it. We don't. And I don't blame anyone for that. but some people are a lot better than others at it you know instinctual and like give me the space you know bring it up and check in with me and then give me the space I need to to talk about it and that to me that's like invaluable and I honestly have a list of of friends that that have provided that kind of a space for me. And I've just had to let other friends and family that I thought could hold me there and could be there, I've just had to put them in the bottom drawer.

28:19Yeah. Have you been handling this just purely instinctually? I mean, I've been doing therapy. How are you finding the words and the processes to reprioritize prioritize and all these things that you're saying. I mean, it's just like, yeah, I'm kind of stunned that you're able to do all this, you know, consciously. Thank you. I would say a lot of it is instinctual, but I did join a grief group. Someone connected me with a grief counselor right away. So I've had her and then I have a grief group, which has been really helpful. but years ago I did therapy off and on and I still have a relationship with my old therapist I haven't talked to him in a while now because I can't afford three different therapies but I'm glad to know you have the same problem as me it's like yeah I need therapy yeah yeah it's that's really sad to me because I think no matter what um you've going you've been going through You don't have to have had a life-changing death.

29:30I think that everyone needs therapy just to learn how to communicate with each other. I think that having that therapy years ago put me in a much better place. I really encourage everyone I know to have therapy. But now the grief group has been so good for me. I think being with other people who lost people in different ways, different scenarios, different relationships, just, I mean, you already from a loss like this, you already gain a lot of perspective, which I wasn't expecting. but like things that were so important to me before are totally not, you know, those dresser drawers have moved around on their own.

30:29And a lot of the noise gets cleared out of life. Like a lot of the little things that stressed me out or gave me anxiety, you know, those, the important things are like bursting out of the top and so much further away from the little noise. But hearing other people's grief journeys, I guess you would call it, is amazing. And I feel so grateful to have this group of people to be with every week, because I can have the most supportive, wonderful friends. But being with someone who's suffered anything close to similarly like it's it's kind of one of the only places where i feel like i can let my hair down yeah yeah you know and like i liken it to when i get to that group i feel like i can like unbutton a tight pair of jeans oh you know so you feel like your writing's kind of forever impacted i do because i guess going back to what i was trying to say about perspective and the important things like blasting to the top and the noise settling down at the bottom i think that it's changed my my fears you know i'm like just not as afraid to do anything I'm not as caught up on worrying what people will think or I'm not as afraid to try things you know about our session we did in January to go over demos and try to jam I hated jamming you know like it's not very me I normally need to do a lot of preparing and I did I had a lot of things prepared but also to just go in with nothing and just jam off like what one of the guys in the band brought that is very different for me so to sit there and like experiment in front of people that's like you know you may as well be in the nude or i may as well be in the nude so i think that that that fear has just changed i am not worried about being judged at all and i'm sure a lot of it is just that that extreme loss is the change of perspective but i also honestly feel like joe's wisdom has imprinted itself upon me like he is someone that was not afraid of anything like that.

33:26And if I were to be like, well, Joe, I'm afraid to jam, he would be like, what? Just do it. He's definitely like a just do it kind of guy and wouldn't want me to be wasting my time being afraid of trying things. So I think that my sign rating is just less afraid. Yes, I was concerned about making things too sad for people but now i'm not now i'm just like sorry this is my life and so far our fans are very here for it which has been beautiful yeah well i mean the music is really really good too you know which which of course always helps like it's not you know i don't think anyone is uh having to but no one's having to pretend to be here for for anyone's sake like it's really really good music yeah you know it's incredible thank you i actually i really do feel i also feel this like confidence that i don't think i ever had before and that i think that if people had no idea what happened i believe that this is a really fucking good album i am totally confident that no matter what the content is this album is great i feel really proud.

34:48And I do think that we all did a beautiful job contributing our hearts and our talent. I would like to talk a little bit about the recording process, and maybe Cody can speak to some of that. How do you move, Cody, from the jam session and the kind of gathering songs you've written and working them out together part to the recording part? How did that move along for this particular album i think the hardest part is deciding what to keep and what to work on and what to cut out because we just have too much material so we're often like keeping a big list of songs and then trying to decide like which ones we love and which ones we should get rid of how do you guys negotiate that i don't know it's like sometimes it actually just comes down to like we didn't decide and we ran out of time and so something doesn't get recorded like we have like five days to record or something and then it's sort of like okay well these four like we didn't decide which ones we're going to keep and then we just ended up recording one of them and then we just like ran out of time yeah maybe that's like a subconscious way of making the decision because you if that's the song that you like put off recording like maybe it's not that good or you don't like it that much certainly makes the decision easier it makes it less of a conscious decision in a sense you know yeah but the stuff you're really excited to get down is like you record that first do you guys talk to like dan about it when you guys are going to go into the studio with him or do you like run stuff by him really no i i feel like we've like sent him demos before and and i don't think he really listened to them he likes to just do stuff live in the studio like i don't think he likes to yeah his his reaction is like awesome get in here it's like he would rather you show up with nothing and then you write everything like in the studio and just like record it as you're going and he's like also just whatever we want to do he's like yeah let's record that whatever whatever you guys want are there times you're you're looking for a more decisive opinion yeah not from dan but i just wish yeah we do kind of wish there was someone who would just say like no this is bad don't do this one they'll do it with takes for sure and like what we're doing on the songs like this is working this isn't working but i wish yeah it would be nice to have some outsider i mean that's what i feel like the beatles had that with their um producer and their manager were like just so involved in shaping the sound and like deciding what songs um god yeah i wish there were more george martins in the world yeah i know i want a george martin and a brian epstein brian epstein yeah yeah that's right it's like it's just nice if you have someone who's like fifth or sixth member kind of meddling and like you know tightening things up yeah do you feel similarly shannon yeah for sure i think it's always good to have like an outside trusted person to help you with editing.

38:00After one last break, we'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Shannon Shaw and Cody Blanchard of Shannon and the Clans. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Ooclas Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged.

38:40With a network that adapts in real time, your business stays operating at peak capacity, even in times of high demand. With built-in security on the first nationwide 5G advanced network, you keep private data private for you, your team, your clients. And with seamless coverage from the world's largest satellite-to-mobile constellation, your whole team can text and stay updated even when they're off the grid. That's your business, Supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com. Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the U.S. where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ookla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 1H 2025.

39:25The greatest music stories aren't always in the songs themselves. They're in the late night studio sessions, the chance encounters, and the cultural moments that shaped entire movements. For music lovers who find themselves going down rabbit holes about their favorite artists, Claude, an AI thinking partner, helps you explore those deeper questions. Whether you're wondering about the connections between different scenes, trying to understand what drove a particular creative period, or exploring how social movements influenced sound, Claude works through these complex cultural puzzles with you.

39:56It's built for people who know that understanding music means understanding the human stories behind it. Claude doesn't just compile facts. It helps you see patterns across decades of music history, ask the kinds of follow-up questions that reveal deeper truths, and works through the nuanced relationships between artists, movements, and moments. Whether you're a music journalist, industry professional, or someone who just lives for understanding the stories behind the sounds, Claude matches your level of curiosity about what really drives great art. Try Claude for free at claude.ai slash brokenrecord and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner.

40:34Lexus is a company that believes in the importance of setting a standard, which I can appreciate as someone who holds themselves to lofty if not ridiculous standards, especially with the car I drive. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feeling and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in a feeling in drivers that their car was built in anticipation of them. machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing.

41:11Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. We're back with the rest of my conversation with Shannon and the Clams. I keep going back to it, but it just really is one of my favorites. I love it so much. The moon is in the wrong place. The act on the song. I love how the second verse is the first verse with added sort of thoughts. you know a few more lines it's a really cool way to go about that just gives it an extra emotion you're repeating the first few lines of the first or the entire first verse and then to stretch it out and and to add the i see spacex and all that it's just like whoa it's really cool thank you did you write it that way did that come through jamming it or how did that particular device come about i think i brought it the song pretty much fully formed right cody i almost feel like that like came down in the studio like having the intro and with a half verse and then like coming back oh definitely this yeah the structure yeah you're right yeah it almost seemed like really last minute or something the way that we did that it adds like a it's like it's just like there's a real energy to it like start like almost like bursting out the gate you know like when you just yeah like having that first verse be like kind of the intro you know yeah it's a lot of tension because it you can tell that it's not finished or it's not resolved or something yeah yeah i think that was like arranging like in the studio um was that an omnicord song yes but i did i had the bass line first that bone da da da da da boom

42:48I like had that Baseline that baseline came to me first actually so I think after I I like got that down then I Formed the rest on the omnicord And how do you how did you work on the omnicord? I know there's like pre-programmed stuff But you don't have to do pre-programmed. I mean the drums are pre-programmed I guess at least right but the chords you can do whatever What I was looking for was something so simple. I was like, all I want is a drum machine that I just select the sound and push play. I don't want to edit it in any way. Because in previous albums, I would ask Cody and Nate to send me, hey, can you just send me a drum beat?