Spellling

31:01Like, is that still a part of what you're doing or? Somewhat. I mean, I think I'm always, the biggest things I'm always inspired by are usually like books and literature, poetry. And so those influences are always there, even when I'm describing like, oh, these are like more just like batters of the heart and like situational, like love stories and things like that. It's still very much being drawn from a lot of research and interest and that kind of stuff. And Portrait of My Heart was the first song that kind of opened up the floodgates for what was to come after with the rest of the album. That was the first song you wrote?

31:45That was the first song I wrote, yeah. And I remember the line, like that came to me when I was on the piano. And I remember it sounding kind of like a halftime thing.

32:05Like that. And very like slow. And I was like, this is cool. Like this is giving, I don't know what this is giving, but it's got something. And then I was frustrated with, like, I felt like it needed to be more aggressive. And I felt fresh, like I was like, I don't want to make another like long, slow, dramatic song. Like I want to, I just want to switch it up. So then I started messing around with the drum machine. And when I had that, like, like that, and then I changed the way that the line came through.

32:43And then, yeah, the vibe of that whole track on my mind at the time was like, what's next? What's to come? Like feeling like I'm running out of time, all those things. And like feeling a lot of apprehension and self-doubt as far as like, God, being an artist, you're just constantly thinking about yourself. This kind of sucks. Like, I'm tired of this. Like, I'm tired of hearing my own voice. I'm tired of what I have to do next. And I just feeling like it's so selfish to be so self-absorbed, you know, with, but that's what it takes to make the thing. So, yeah, the song is kind of about that. And just feeling like, you know, you're pursuing your art, pursuing your idea to this extreme where you're starting to, like, lose track of reality, lose track of what's important to you in your life.

33:37and things really just start to fade away and you like live in a delusion and a lot of times like to make the best things you gotta like live in the delusion and so I was fully living in that and the lyrics came through like that like lost shattered in the dark stranger in my head it's like grappling with like the artist self and um creating a kind of like a prison of your own imagination. Yeah. I haven't really thought about it that way, but it's like one of the great ironies of being an artist, I guess, is that you're constantly, I guess it's by nature a bit, it is a bit selfish or maybe there's another way of thinking about it, but that definitely is, you know, part of it.

34:25I mean, it's a beautiful part of it too. And that's, that's the, the song is kind of just questioning all the things. And I think the spiritual portion that comes in is like this feeling or sensation sometimes that I have. It's like my relationship with God and feeling like God is the ultimate artist and like has, you know, placed certain like circumstances or situations for each individual life. and what you push back or what you contribute towards it versus what you don't, how much of that is your responsibility? And almost even being as an artist, are you challenging against your nature and what God intended you to do?

35:07So that's kind of like... So you feel like maybe God was not intending for you to be an artist? Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe that your gifts or abilities could be better placed through other things instead of this like... Was it teaching that was the other thing for you? Teaching was another thing. Yeah. I could see another life path where that was like where I like put my efforts and my gifts towards or I don't know, like being a mother or being like, you know, these other roles or yeah, these other roles in life that like I haven't necessarily chosen or haven't had. happened so that was the the crisis of that song yeah i don't know like choosing yeah i don't know just as like a parent now three times over i don't know i don't think i've ever chosen you were chosen i would think yeah it was that was the other way i was chosen so you know i'm just sure when it's fun we always think about that as a good you know when i talk to other people I don't know if it's so much up to you.

36:10I don't know if it's so much up to any of us. That's true. It's facts. So, you know, but it's interesting. And it's not that I see it that way. It's just that kind of like those curiosities coming up, you know. And yeah, I encountered some like weird poem that was talking about an artist as like a thief or like a sort of like a con artist. like you know like portraying reality in a way that it's not and like taking your money for it you know and it's it's just like a weird funny interesting concept to me right where it's like an artist kind of demands a lot from you and they can and there's this sort of like narcissism involved and it's like their their job is to like create a reality that's not reality and like sell you on it.

37:01That's a very Bay Area interpretation. It's such a Bay Area thing. Of an artist. I'm living down here in LA and it's like, sounds normal to me. Take the money and run. I know. That's why I need to move down here. Yeah. But no, but it's not like, it's not a wrong interpretation, but that certainly can seem true. What other stuff were you reading or watching or listening to around the making of this? I did a lot less of that. I mean, also for Portrait of My Heart, I had seen that movie, What Dreams May Come. And that also inspired. It's with Robin Williams and Cuba getting juniors in it. And he's the angel.

37:45I don't think I ever saw it, but I remember the movie. It's freaky. That also lended into a lot of the imagery in that song. because it's like his wife passes away and he's trying to rescue her from hell. Wow. And he goes on this whole odyssey. And she was a painter in the movie. And so her heaven, I think, is all watercolor painting. And it's really beautiful. She moves through it. And the trees are all rippling with paint and stuff. So I had seen it a long time ago and always was kind of freaked out by it. It's a really intense movie, but it's also so beautiful. And I'd watched it again, and that kind of helped me with that song, Portrait of My Heart, and just kind of like that theme in general of just painting.

38:34Yeah. And yeah, other books like Mount Analog. That's a song based off that, and that's a book that I really enjoyed. I found it at— Wait, it's a book? Mount Analog, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that was a book. Yeah. I loved that title. Yeah, I was just going to call it Analog, but I'm glad I kept the mountain so anyone can look it up and hopefully read it. I found it. There's this bookstore in Silver Lake called Stories. One of the times I was out here, it was up on the shelf for staff picks. And I was like, oh, it's like inspired Alejandro Jodorowsky's Holy Mountain. And so he was inspired by that book to make that movie.

39:17By Mount Analog? Yeah. No way. Wow. Yeah, yeah. And it's beautiful. It's just like an adventure story about a group of mountaineers that try to scale this mythic mountain that's supposed to exist somewhere. but it's like hidden from view and you can only, you know, find it if you're coming with like a pure heart and intentions. And there's like weird mystical concepts in it that I really latched onto. And it tried to infuse in the song and, you know, they're like sailing towards this mountain. And so I'm sort of trying to create that, like, there's like this noise starts and like grows all the way up to the end of the song.

40:04It's supposed to sound like waves. Tried to like set the scene that way. Yeah. Your music can be so dense sometimes in like really cool ways. Like, I don't mean that dense. I mean, maybe lush is the word, but do things tend to start more simply? And then do they come to you sort of like with almost prearranged in a sense of like you kind of know all the different kinds of sounds you want in this thing? I think that's that's more the case. Like I usually have it's more about reeling back than like adding a bunch more. Like that's never really been a big struggle with me as far as like arranging or writing a song.

40:44It's just like some people describe like they can't stop or they keep adding stuff or don't know when to stop. I feel like I always know when to stop. and usually I'm kind of stripping things back. That's kind of more the process. And some more than others, I think the most challenging track was Waterfall, where I played around with so many different versions and tempos, and nothing felt quite right. And we landed somewhere that I'm happy with. That's my favorite song on the album. As long as it's capturing the core in a really authentic way, then I'm happy, and I kind of feel like the ornamentation of things can kind of be interchangeable.

41:22what makes waterfall your favorite song i think because it was such a puzzle to to hack and like figure out that it was just so satisfying once it really clicked because i was kind of like damn am i going to compromise and just kind of put this out even though it doesn't feel 100 right and i really didn't want to do that and then at the last minute it kind of fell together and uh i was in Athens, Georgia, mixing the album with, yeah, like a couple days left. And I still didn't have the lyrics really figured out. I was like, we'll mix this song last and like hopefully something comes together. And I was driving home and it's like the like, that like country south darkness.

42:07That's like, ooh, like it's just, you feel it in your bones kind of a thing. and I was driving and listening to the demo and started to get that shivery feeling where it's like, ooh, I feel kind of scared, but also dangerous right now. And I felt this rush of, I don't know, just a flash of inspiration and helped me figure out the lyrics on that. But it was amazing. There's always a story like that, like last minute, something's like, you had to get to this point to finally be handed that. That's how I feel about that track. So it's a favorite. And also just the lyrics are super special to me. It's about losing somebody.

42:51And I lost a friend of mine, David, who also inspired me to start making music. And so I had him in mind and was thinking about him through this process and kind of being my guiding angel through this whole experience of being an artist now. songs dedicated to him and um thinking about grief as like it's just change as a form of change and yeah yeah what what happened he died tragically and um he was hit by a muni bus and it was like he was only we were all like in our early 20s like 22 at the time this is at the telegraph house that we were all living in so he was one of my roommates and this is like a beautiful flamboyant person um who would just like bust into my room all the time and be like let's go do stuff together so I moved into his room after he had passed like later months later and that's when I started getting music equipment because I was like I feel him I could feel him in the room and And I feel like he would want me to be making stuff.

44:04Wow. Yeah. I wanted to, like, I always sing and, like, make things, but I didn't think my voice was strong. Like, it was something that I didn't push it or try to, like, take it seriously. So, yeah, I was like, this is just another tool for me when I started making music to, like, you know, just kind of like the, like, producer who also makes music sort of thing. where the voice is just being utilized, hopefully, like, as another instrument. But it wasn't something, like, where I came in as, like, I'm a singer, and then, you know, I feel a lot more confident in my voice now. It's grown on me. But, yeah, moments with songs like Alibi or certain songs where I'm just, like, that feels, like, too me.

44:46Like, too me. Too much me in there. It's interesting. It's too much. Like, and this track, like, Analog, where it's, like, I can kind of feel like I'm, like, I'm just a part of the music more. Got it. Part of the tapestry. Yeah, part of the tapestry. And then in Alibi, it's like, I've got to deliver in this other way where it's just a different sensation. It is a pretty straight ahead song. That feels new for you on the album. And I was mentioning earlier, the abundance of guitar also feels new for you. Yeah. How did that come together? Like what, when did you realize you were going to, that was going to be, drive a lot of the sound?

45:29I guess when portrait clicked in the way that it did, I was like, okay, I'm going back in time. I'm going back to this like sort of high school self. What was I listening to then? What were the things that fueled that attitude? and I needed to kind of like get in my Radiohead bag, my like System of a Down and Smashing Pumpkins and all of the like kind of 90s grunge rock stuff. And that just made it sense to me. Like, oh, I'm going to, it's going to be guitar based and that'll be a sort of like touchstone for the first time because I think before then I never, I didn't just mean whatever and let the song demand what instruments to use.

46:18And this time I'm like, I want to have a little bit more of a centerpiece here. So rock palette. So you forced the issue. You're just like, we're going to... Forced the issue. I stood on it. Yeah. Stand on business. Ten toes down. I don't even know who played guitar on that. No, my band. So in my band right now, Wyatt plays guitar. He played all the songs on Portrait. And we had a couple guests on Alibi. Pat from Turnstile also played on it. And Braxton from Zulu. So yeah, but Wyatt held down and helped me arrange and write a lot of the stuff. And then Julio is our bass player. He's a jazz player.

47:01He's like, you know, his style. He's like a music addict. He can't stop playing music. You know, like every day he has a gig. And he always makes the live performances really dynamic. And I'll be like, okay, we have our set list. This is what we're going to do every night, you know, because it feels good to kind of just like lock in and get better at the same thing. And he'll be like, this is boring. We got to do something different every night, you know? So who's on Satisfaction? Is that Wyatt? Yeah. That gets pretty hardcore. Did that come at the end? Or were you like, we're going to, we're for sure just going to, like, did you know from the jump that you were going to...

47:43What that song would end up like? Yeah. Turn that into, like, a Slayer song. I'm trying to remember where that song even, or when I wrote that one. I think it was kind of like having this more, like, wicked synth flair to it at first. I remember making the guitar line that's like, and it kind of had more of a Queen of Wands sort of prog synth rock feeling to it. I started to get real theatrical with all the synth work and stuff, and I'm like, what would it sound like if it was stripped down and just much more brutal and just guitar instead of all this chaotic synth stuff happening? I feel like the guitar was down bad for a while.

48:33The guitar was down bad, yeah. I feel like it could use a renaissance. I like having music. But it was such a wild, that wasn't a flavor I was used to from your songs. Yeah, from Spelling Song. I know. Yeah, I know. I mean, I think about some Pantheon stuff and like I would have the impulse to do kind of what I'm doing on Satisfaction or with like other heavier tracks. But it's like I just didn't have the means to like real fun. I tried to kind of go there and make this like sort of like doom metal guitar, but with the synth. So I would just like emulate what I wanted to sound like on the Juno and let it live like that.

49:18Like I was saying, I feel like I got to channel some of those first instances of music that felt like they were different than what I was growing up listening to. My mom listened to a lot of Neo Soul and R &B and all of that stuff really still comes through too. In the 90s, Mary J. Blige, she's one of the people who taught me how to sing. And Randy and Monica and Tony. You were singing to their records? Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, so that was the music I was like raised on and like in my household. And like, but then I think some of the like alt rock stuff I got into, like AFI and like pop punk stuff.

49:59That was your dad. Yeah. No, it was like me in like a suburb and like going to Borders Bookstore and being like raised by Borders Bookstore. And like, you know, that I'm speaking to kind of like, oh, hearing something else and feeling like, what is this? for hearing System of a Down for the first time and being like, oh, what is this feeling happening right now? I didn't know I had these sort of sensations inside, but it's speaking to something that was there. Yeah, so Portrait of My Heart, kind of drawing from that alt-rock palette that kind of felt like it kind of fueled this new fascination and interest in, like, this is my music too.

50:44This is stuff that I really connect with. And you played some shows with Turnstile, didn't you? I did, yeah. I saw Brendan Yates go on some podcast maybe and say how he loves Little Deer. And I was like, what?

51:05It made me so happy. And then I think I reached out, DMed him or something. I was like, no way. That's so cool that you even listened to Spelling. asked us to play some shows. We played open for them in Vegas and Tucson, I think. It was so interesting to stand up there in front of their crowd. In Vegas? In Vegas. Yeah. There was a lot of confusion. No surprise. Yeah, there was a lot of puzzled looks and then kind of saw some people converted. Those are the best kinds of shows, though. I love those. I love when it's just not the perfect match for the audience. That's the most fun. Yeah, I thrive on that, too.

51:54I like seeing the sort of perplexed crowd and then some heads nodding and be like, I don't know.

52:06Okay.

52:10Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And I love his voice. Like, Portrait of My Heart, we're working on doing a remix with him. So featuring him on one of the tracks is just going to be really great. After this break, we'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Spelling. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Oocla Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.

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55:31Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. Yeah, you're doing a whole remix, like release of the album, but it's not going to come out at the same time, right? Yeah, it'll just be a few tracks and like Simon and I are working on those like remix versions. And the last few years I've just put more effort into connecting with other artists like that I really like like Brendan and it to me like that's the biggest like affirmation along the way like oh these artists I really love like they like spelling and what can I like gain from that as far as just like creative collaboration and seeing what fusion will come from because I think it's pretty all over the spectrum like the people who are interested in spelling isn't like they aren't coming from this like I'm interested in the music because I like hardcore music or I like you know this style of music or it's just all over the map I don't know if there's like I don't know if you could do an algorithmic like if you listen to spelling you would also like it's nothing that 100 % you're like ODB there's no father to your style sometimes I'll I've like heard my music pop up on things I wouldn't expect it to like algorithmically but then I'm like oh I do see the crossover there Like on what?

56:51I'm a big fan of Sibo Mato. And I was listening to their album, and then it started shuffling other stuff. And then one of my old songs was like a jump scare. I was like, what? Why does this sound so familiar? It was Dirty Desert Dreams from Maisie Fly. And I was like, ah, what? Why is this playing right now? Yeah, that just sort of, I guess, like synth music. Yeah, I guess. but I don't know. I mean, yeah, you definitely have a unique style. Yeah, an amalgamation of a lot. There's a lot going on in there. So the remix, I guess, or are they just like duets? Or like, wait, what are the... Like, how much are you changing the songs?

57:38I want to change them more. Like, Simon and I, he's fantastic also. Like, we have great chemistry. He worked on the track sometimes on, that's just the My Bloody Valentine cover on Portrait of My Heart. And he also did Waterfall and Drain. So he helped me just co-produce those. And then I was like, oh man, this was so cool. And I didn't really connect with him until towards the tail end of the whole process. And I was like, I wish we would have connected way earlier, but it's cool. And now I'm like, yeah, let's definitely do the remixes together. So, so far we're working on three. There's, I'm kind of want to like, keep this a surprise though, like who the features are.

58:16Got it, got it, got it, got it. You worked with Rob Bizzell on the project, who's done a lot of good work for SZA and like a bunch of other people. How was that? It was great. You know, I feel like that was my first experience working with a producer. Everything has been self-produced before, so there was definitely like a sort of an internal struggle at the concept at first and I knew it would really it would really benefit me and help me grow just to get that opportunity so went in and it felt it feels like 50 50 like you don't know if you're gonna vibe with someone and you can even if you like get along and like it's like how is that going to translate when it comes to like these creative decisions and so I've come a long way as a person as far as like being able to even be in that scenario in context like what you so would probably just give me so much dread and anxiety but um he's the loss of control or the loss of control and also just having to make decisions with someone you know because i think when i'm working on my own in solo capacity which i usually do producing it's like i can take as much time as I need and like you know like there isn't this need to communicate actively like it's just an internal communication so I was like still a little nervous and but he's great like he's made everything feel so casual I don't know what I was expecting but yeah he just had this confidence and like he I remember him being like he showed me what he was sort of starting out with and he's like and i was already really digging it and he's like yeah don't worry you're gonna leave here with something you love like just like i was like okay confidence

1:00:11i promise i guarantee it no so he just had like a really good no he's great like he knows how to like you know he knows what he's doing knows what he's doing and he had i like that sense of assurance because i you know i don't want to be in the room with someone that's like you know like like i want like do what you do best and like work from that and like that felt really comforting just to like things didn't feel awkward at all and also it was just awesome to see that was my kind of my all only one of few experiences seeing someone just like operate as a producer too and i'm like oh he's doing these things or whatever and like i do a lot of this stuff too you know like it was just like affirming to be like oh there isn't a blueprint there's so much experimentation there's so much just like fucking around with this like tape reel and so the like sensations of imposter syndrome come up or it's like what I do is that good enough or is it like refined enough or whatever and techniques and it's like we all don't know what we're doing in some capacity like the idea of expertise is so relative and especially in art yeah but yeah he's brilliant and like really helped me to like stand on ideas I had and be like no like try it like actually do it and would follow through and we came up with some just like some really fun stuff on portrait particularly like we were like strumming the trying to get real like pet sounds with it like strumming the piano keys and like doing all these effects on it and just adding subtle little like stuff that made a big difference and i came in with this version of the song that was like once again like an eight it was like eight minutes long and he's like this is cool but cut this cut like cut it in half were there like other sections where they were like this preamble i always do this too and he's like it's just my pop mind is kind of saying like this doesn't happen again anywhere else in the song i'm like it was this intro string line counter melody and i thought that was the sickest part of the song and i was like there's no way what like you didn't even cut that like that that is the song right there and he's like it just doesn't happen ever again like dot dot dot and i'm like oh you know like and i'm like fine we'll just let's try it let's try it and like that little voice in my head coming up being like this is a mistake like working with someone else like i hate this no no no but it was really good for me to kind of just see that happen like oh you know the thing that you think is absolutely right sometimes isn't or that like yeah you know to your point about there's no expertise like yeah can't even be experts about ourselves and what we you know it's hard to be objective about ourselves anyway you know to be objective and i always want to just do it it was a good reminder do it it takes to serve the song and like let's at least try it and I needed that like an outside brain to just show it to me in a different light so we had a really good time I mean it's interesting that on this project you both one learned how you can work with a producer but also like you like reified your own sort of abilities as a producer too like you you kind of moving forward do you think you want to self-produce again or do you want to work with someone else again or there's a sense of like relief and like i was saying wanted to just go back to me for this next project and see what comes out of that i i'm really excited to like yeah i think that that experience with rob was super affirming and i'm like i feel like i'm a i'm a strong producer like i know what i want and i think that's the most important thing is like knowing essentially what you want and acting on it like because you could sit there all day with There's so many other versions and options, but ultimately I do know what I want strongly.

1:04:08So I think I'm motivated to kind of just go there for what's next. It's like self-produce it. So the future for spelling is let this album come out, do the tour, move to L.A., and self-produce the next record. Sounds about right. Yeah. Cool. Well, glad you'll be around more. Me too. It's been, I don't know, LA's just everything. It's like everything everyone says about it at the same time. Like the good and bad, it's all there. That's very true. Yeah. Mostly the good. Mostly good. Well, congratulations on the new album. Thank you. It's really great. And I'm looking forward to spending more time with it.

1:04:52I appreciate it. Thanks, Justin. It's fun talking to you. Very official. Very official.

1:05:02In the episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist of some of our favorite spelling songs. Be sure to check out youtube.com slash brokenrecordpodcast to see all of our video interviews. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at thebrokenrecordpod. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Toleday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month.

1:05:42Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.

1:05:57The more you learn about your favorite artists, the more you want to know. Claude helps you keep digging, finding new threads and rabbit holes to explore. Whether it's discovering deeper meaning behind a detail in an interview or figuring out the influence behind an artist's particular era, Claude thinks with you to find the next clue. If you can't get enough of the stories behind your favorite music and artists, Claude will help you discover new layers you didn't know existed. Try Claude for free at claude.ai slash brokenrecord. This is an ad by BetterHelp. We've all had that epic rideshare experience.

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