Suki Waterhouse

0:05Pushkin. This is an iHeart Podcast. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Ooclas Speedtest. And they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. That's your business, Supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com. Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the U.S.

0:48where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ookla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 1H 2025. This episode of Broken Record is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Traveling is one of life's greatest joys. Honestly, can anything be more exhilarating? Well, actually, yeah, with Chase Sapphire Reserve. It's your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. First, you will earn eight times points on all purchases through Chase Travel. And the card gets you into Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide and access to one-of-a-kind experiences. Whether you are booking a once-in-a-lifetime trip or your next weekend escape, discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve at chase.com slash sapphire reserve.

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2:13Learn more. Visit BoschHomeUS.com. Suki Waterhouse started professional life as a model and actress in the UK. A full-fledged music career might have seemed far-fetched, but she quickly found an authentic voice as a singer-songwriter. She put out some beautiful demos that caught the attention of the legendary Sub Pop label, which put out her first album, I Can't Let Go, and her latest, Memoir of a Sparkle Muffin. Suki's music first started catching on with audiences through TikTok, but her sophomore album wasn't built with social media audiences in mind. It's an 18-song journey through the life of a 30-year-old woman who had some wild times in her 20s, survived the sadness memorialized on her first album, and has come to find happiness and even a family on the other side.

3:01On today's episode, I talk with Suki Waterhouse about building an organic career in music, what it was like opening for Taylor Swift at Wembley Stadium just last month, and she tells a great Jack White story that inspired one of my favorite lines from her first album. This is Broken Record. Liner notes for the digital age. I'm Justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation with Suki Waterhouse from Amazon Studio 126. To see the full video version of this episode, go to youtube.com slash brokenrecordpodcast. Congratulations on the soon-to-be release, Memoir of a Sparkle Muffin. Thank you. Thank you. I can't believe it, actually.

3:43It's over two weeks, but it's pretty much two weeks away. yeah coming right up i know it's always that strange thing you put so much work in and there's kind of singles coming out and there's rollout and then you kind of actually you kind of forget that everyone hasn't had the record yet you've heard it a ton yeah i've heard it a bunch of times i just did a listening party the other day which was really fun nice because you know you get together like a kind of hundred fans or something and you play them and you get to see their expressions and you get you kind of get like a real sense of it and um yeah and i've been going around and like showing it to some of the streamers and stuff like that but you kind of forget that everyone else apart from like your friends and all the people that you love like haven't heard it yet so i don't know yeah i'm excited rollouts is always really fun because it's unexpected i feel like the next few months you really have no idea like what's gonna happen and what's gonna connect and it's it's kind of like just like a bit of a mystery and it's it's it's it's yeah absolutely i I mean, obviously you have a tour booked, but in terms of like what sort of from the album like grabs people's attention, actually, you know, you really don't know.

4:49Yeah, you have no idea. This is a long album as well, actually. This is like an 18 song record, which is, yeah, it's kind of like a long thing. I was shocked by how long it was. I mean, I love that it was long. It was cool. And I ended up like, you know, because it's longer, like I started thinking about it in sections, you know, almost like I guess broken up the way like an old LP would be like it It was like a double LP, flip sides. Certain groups of songs have their own character, it feels like, together. And I don't know. Yeah, exactly. I now think of them as a larger piece, a few at a time.

5:22Yes, they're literally parts of the memoir together. Songs like Gateway and Oh My God and Blackout, I feel like they're in a destructive section of it. But I guess, yeah, that's kind of like... Lullaby, though, and then into OMG. That's kind of its own section, too, towards the end. Yeah, Lullaby's a song I haven't listened to in a long time, actually, because I kind of I feel like yeah I don't know there's like this line in it that about taking sleeping pills and stuff I don't know you know when you're just like oh god like it's sort of like you you wrote it really just like oh I'm putting exactly how I feel in this one very like hazy moment where I've like written everything out and I'm like oh this isn't like this isn't every night but this is you know what I mean like um it's yeah it's one of those ones that felt like a really personal um kind of like etching um and i'm surprised that's the that's the lyric that you sing because i mean i don't know it doesn't seem to me that i mean through your whole i mean starting with brutally you're like there's way more fucked up shit on that yeah i didn't want to frame it that way more fucked up but i you know the there are guests as i was listening i was like wow there's like you know you you have some really your writing is really cool i mean there's some like really maybe it's because you're british but there's like a bit of a acerbic kind of tone to certain certain lines that are just like fun you know they almost make them like hip-hop lines in a sense like they're not quite a diss but they're kind of like a little mean in a weird way like yeah i guess i'm british maybe i am a little mean you know or a little bit like yeah a little bit a little bit cutting yeah yeah a little cutting i think i think that's what it is you know or like deadpan or like sometimes yeah sometimes like you can say things that are sort of like i'll use words or whatever i can do it in interview sometimes where i'm like oh my god like that's been you know like it comes across as being very like different to how you maybe said it with your tone yes um but yeah i think actually yeah you said like british and i think that was something i think on my first record i've i've always been like very inspired by like that kind of american Americana like almost like like certain kind of like country folky elements I think that came up quite a lot on the first record and um and this one I think I like lean into a lot more of the things that I like grew up with like a lot more of uh like kind of Ramones or like English bands like a little bit more Oasis and you know I think I think I was like yeah songs like Blackout Drunk I kind of wanted that like Ramones-y uh block party almost like the things that I was listening to in 2008 like stomping down i was stomping around new york with like these like big hideous like doc martins i got on ebay and you know that that kind of like that kind of feeling especially i'm so happy you said the room oh that's one of my favorite that's one of my favorite you know i don't really listen to them so much anymore because i just i've listened to them so much that i feel like i have their entire catalog like i could recall it at any moment right um but and when you say that like the blackout drunk it's almost like 2020 24 you know what i mean yeah it's kind of got that kind of upbeat kind of upbeat and it's just like such a i really love that song actually because it came out so just like as a as a story and just felt like okay it was it was kind of like taken from a little bit of reality of like talking to friends and being like oh god we hate it and like you know oh your boyfriend got like way too drunk and it's like annoying you know and then we took I kind of took took it from there and then just made up this story of you know going out and this girl um get you know he's gotten too drunk and he's he's kind of like touching other other girls weirdly and like you know and I'm so pissed and he's falling asleep next to me and I can't wait to like wake him up and tell him all of the shit that he's done wrong you know like that it was like came out as this very like concise story um which kind of doesn't always happen actually that much where you're just you're really enjoying going like um you know what yeah you're kind of just like playing off everything in your head like well would you like it if i cheated on you like how would you like that like you'd hate that and it kind of yeah it just came out on one go so that was a that was a really fun one what what i mean And given that it only came from a scrap of like, not even necessarily autobiography, but just came from like, but it is a very, so I'll say this, listening to that song, I realized, I don't think I've ever been that person.

9:43You don't think so? But I know many people that have been that person. I know that relationship dynamic very well. You know that relationship dynamic, yeah, exactly. That's a very relatable, but I've never heard it actually like put in song that way. But what about - Yeah, probably plenty of songs about people getting drunk, right? Or like being drunk. Yeah, being a drunk, but like not like just that dynamic, though, of like the boyfriend's probably pretty decent person sober, but then goes out and gets way too fucked up, probably way too often. Right. Does some fucked up things. And then the sort of the thrill of being able to, I guess what must be the thrill, otherwise I don't know why people stay, of just being able to sort of rub it in their noses.

10:21Yeah, like, why don't you do this? but yeah it's yeah i guess i yeah having having that be like a kind of a fun thing i guess is when you can take something that's actually probably quite difficult in real life and make it sort of like celebrate it and empower it and like and and make it and kind of like an enjoyable thing to to sing is yeah i don't know that one yeah that's it's a funny one it's kind of like i'd i'd forgotten about that song for a long time and then i actually changed the single i do it all the time but i changed it to blackout drunk what was it supposed to pretty last minute it was meant to be gateway yeah which is like the first song on the record but i'd done like oh my god i'd done my fun and i'd done faded and then it felt like more it felt like kind of in the same like scope of everything yeah um so i don't know yeah i do i do that all the time like i'll just i'll just completely throw out the window and everyone's like i kind of enjoyed in that you know when the label's got the plan and everything's planned and it's going to be gateway drunk then i'm like no it's not we're changing the whole thing you know you're feeling it in real time like yeah exactly oh people are really kind of i'm really liking this one now no i feel as it feels yeah i didn't feel ready for gateway even though it's like it is one of my favorite songs off the record and i like love it i just yeah i don't know you just like you kind of get a sense or or i guess when like or if if everyone's like oh this should be the single this is the most thing like that also gives me like an allergic reaction i'm like change change change like course correct because i just think it's yeah i don't know i feel like in music right i don't know it just doesn't feel we're not in that it that doesn't what i don't think it works as much the metrics the sort of well it doesn't it doesn't yeah like just because something sounds like oh that sounds like a single it's just not where it's not where like culture is at the moment it's not where like you can it's not about just like the most single singly song or the one that every in fact if anything i'm always like no it's the opposite you know what i mean yeah no definitely yeah i don't know what um what faded is another i actually want to pull up some of the some of the some of the lyrics everyone's been like what are these lyrics like they're all over the place i love that you you used to call me yoga yeah i made i'm gonna joke that all your friends are leaving yeah or all yeah um it's like little vin i feel like that one yeah that one that song like really goes back to um that one like really goes back to like being like 16 17 and like like the kind of the things that yeah like the things that people were saying to like kind of the things that it's not it's not i've seen like stuff on the internet being like who's it about and it's like it's so it's it's sort of about like a couple of different people from when i was like 16 or so you know what i mean it's like and then there's like you know there's like kind of other things in there too but um it's like yeah it takes little like vignettes and it and it's like this very like sweet it feels like this very sweet like kind of wave to the to the past in a way yeah and that that line um be the kind of man that i could that i could read to that i could read to yeah it's just i don't know that's the kind of thing i was like again i don't know if you meant it like cutting but it's like you know it was a bit it's in a good way i think it's like i i read it as a bit like infantilizing in a positive way like you know like you're kind of um this not the superior in the relationship but again it just felt like uh i don't know it seems like you have these very smart ways of kind of putting people or situations in the in a particular place that makes you sort of the person that holds the power and it's i don't know it's kind of fun yeah yeah yeah i don't know if that's true at all yeah i mean i think on my first record i probably what i don't think i was feeling like that on my first record i mean my first record's called i can't let go and like when i listen to it now like i'm so proud of that uh that work but it was definitely i think also because where i came from on that record was like you know i'd been putting out music by myself like you know it was always just like most of the songs at the beginning like brutally and call place in the world like they didn't want even recorded to like click or anything it was so you know so kind of um just experimenting there was nothing that there was no you know there was no team there was no nothing so I got to do that for like a decade so in a way I feel like not much really changed and in a way like when I kind of started you know actually made a record but the first record was I Can't Let Go and I think it was I think I felt at that point like I was so frightened to cross over and add, to kind of change course in a way or say, like, hey, here's an entire record.

15:06Here's a body of work. My expectations were so low of what would happen when I put that record out. So everything that's happened in the last few years has just been such an insane surprise. But yeah, with this record, it's such a jump, in a way because it's like yeah i can't let go and now i feel like oh i've let go of so much and i'm you know what i mean like i'm so i'm so much freer i'm so like in in what i can experiment with in music and with this record and um yeah i feel like i've i've just gotten i'm like so full of wanting to write and i'm wanting to just make as much stuff as possible that's great what was i mean maybe we can go back what was the impetus to begin with with like so brutally was the first thing you put out that was the first yeah yeah that was like the first song yeah yeah what was what made you write what what made you write that what made you then decide i mean i need you know and how did you record it did you find a band was it who did you where did you do it like what's the story on the early yeah so the first um so i have the same producers now that i've worked with for like over a decade um uh jules of pulonette and and not finley she has a she has a project called finley and i was like such a massive fan of finley so i went to one of their shows and somehow like got backstage and that was how i like got in with them and um similar thing with my friend blue who actually just mixed um memoir of a sparkle muffin and we did a bunch of stuff together so there's been like a crew that i've really been working with for for such a long time but blue um yeah that was like round that was round at his house i think it was like probably one of the first things that we'd done together and you've recorded the album albums at least in in north carolina uh that was the first one yeah the first record i recorded in in um in north carolina but just the early singles or the early songs but out those weren't like brutally and good looking no well they were they were just like in at my house and stuff at your house yeah or at my house or in their living room i mean most of the stuff that i do with jules and and nat we did like good looking oh my god my fun joanna we've we've worked together for such a long time and they've they did a bunch of stuff on the new record too that's like always been literally in a living room wow yeah and jewels are such an like they're just yeah they're a couple and they've been they've just been like the most unbelievable partners to have for a long time and it's like it's cool like we're all you know we made good looking it's like eight nine years ago um you know just because we were all enjoying each other so much and then it kind of had this it's so weird when like with music like then it had a moment it's a kind of it had like a moment where it kind of started doing stuff like such a long time afterwards.

17:47Yeah, like about eight years later. Like a long time afterwards. Yeah, and it's one of those weird things. Like when I made the I Can't Let Go record and had it, signed it to sub-hop, like everyone was trying to get me to delete Good Looking and delete all the old songs and like, oh, that's Start Afresh. And I was like, no, I love those songs. But it was such, you know, it's like such a funny thing. Like that, yeah, that was like the first song that kind of ended up doing good. And it did good. I mean, it kind of started doing good around the time you put out I Can't Let Go. Yes, which is so weird, isn't it?

18:21It's so strange. No, it wasn't on the album at all. But did it lift anything? So I feel like Move got really popular as well from the first album. Yeah. So did Good Look, did the kind of online viralness of Good Look? I definitely think it helped. Yeah, for sure. It was very strange that that kind of happened at the same time it was yeah again i kind of felt like it was this like um way from the past coming back around but that yeah that was like a tiktok thing yeah that was like that's like one of those unexplainable things where like yeah no one's focused on your old stuff that you did eight nine years ago but tiktok is like it just like does its own thing and it's no rhyme or reason yeah no rhyme or reason and you like have yeah you have no idea you're watching all these videos and you're kind of thinking like oh i this has just like come to life and has this other way that it's breathing that you never ever would have thought of it's so bizarre it's so bizarre but yeah for sure that that i'm sure that um i'm sure that helped uh like bring eyeballs onto onto the music and then i got to release like i never would have thought those old songs would have got to be put on vinyl and like get a proper release but we put all of them together and we released it on a um and and i called it was an ep called milk teeth so i released that right after was that on sub pop to the ep or did you do that yourself okay that was yeah yeah so those songs were i i had all of them um by myself and then and then i signed them to sub pop and we released them on a on a vinyl and it was a kind and they got to have this like moment yeah they got to kind of you know such a cool outcome from them like being like delete them yes yeah exactly you get to repackage them and it's like i know but you kind of yeah it was like no one knows it's not it's not no one knows probably made sense to delete them i'm sure you know but exactly smart that you listen to your instinct on it yeah yeah you never know but that's always like that's always the coolest thing it's like yeah that's i was like oh i get to have it on a vinyl and get i get to have it in record stores like that's always that's like the dream that's always like the best thing ever so the group you're saying you were um a fan of it was Finley?

20:27Yeah so Finley is Natalie and she yeah Jules used to play with her too and I was a big fan of them I remember it was kind of yeah it was around the time that like Jake Bug was around or I think I'd been to like one of his shows that same week and we met yeah we just met each other backstage and I literally had done I'd done like I kind of I was always like finding people to work with even though I had like sort of no sort of like music industry connections in a way but that you know you just find you just find people to work with so yeah i remember we have we have like video footage of it we're like little babies like 18 year old babies and um and yeah we started yeah we started making those songs um and we would go on like little trips and go and stay at his mom's house and in britney in france and um and yeah it's been this like really long like collaborative fruitful experience so you had some of the songs already when you went backstage and met them you had some of the um no i i don't think i had the any of the ones that we we put out no we like i know i know which song i know you had some stuff though yeah yeah yeah i yeah i'd what i'd what i definitely like made music before but we we kind of like went in there with a lot of like like jules has such you know the production on good looking and joanna and oh my god am i fun he has such a he just i don't know i feel like he has something that no one else does like both of them together i really i think there's that whole kind of like that it's, yeah, it's otherworldly what I think they're able to do.

22:04And we, yeah, we've just like had this really special relationship. We'll be right back after this break with more from Suki Waterhouse. In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Ooclas Speedtest, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged.

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24:30Discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve at chase.com slash sapphire reserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. Hey, this is LeVar Arrington from Two Pros and a Cup of Joe. Toyota is moving toward a more sustainable future by giving you the freedom to choose from an incredible lineup of trucks now available in both gas and hybrid models including the legendary Tacoma and the powerful Tundra both available with the i-Force Max hybrid powertrain and backed by Toyota's legendary reputation for reliability and value in fact for 2025 Toyota is the best resale value brand for the fifth year in a row according to the kelly blue book kbb.com with tacoma ranked number one holding the highest projected retained value of any vehicle choosing toyota means having more options and less compromise so visit buy a toyota.com for a great deal on an efficient toyota today vehicles projected resale value is specific to the 2025 model year for more information visit kelly blue books kbb.com toyota let's go places we're back with suki waterhouse before you started writing songs or what was your like what was like were you what was your relationship with music you know i mean you were at the time you had a job you were a model you know and you were acting i think also by that point yeah well into acting so yeah what uh well maybe not when i was that age actually i think i think i started making music probably yeah i was i was modeling and stuff but um yeah i started making music kind of a long time before i guess like i i was i was a model but i was like not like a very successful model no not no i really wasn't really no i was like like you know with my a to z going to like 30 castings a day and like you know probably crying and like in a toilet most days like it wasn't it wasn't like a particularly you know it was very um it was like very much at the beginning so yeah that was that was like always the yeah writing and and making music it was like I wanted yeah I really like wanted I wanted that life but and I wanted to be in music always first actually but I don't know sometimes like life kind of like takes you in different directions and like that and in and in so many ways in fact in every way Like I'm so grateful that it almost, that it did take so long and that I got so long, so much time to just work on it and discover what I like and like mess up a bunch of times and do like hundreds of sessions of, you know, like not, like no, like kind of, it's all about like taste and finding out what you do and don't like and becoming very particular about it.

27:31like that is what it is essentially like building your artist world um so yeah I don't know I wouldn't if I was like if I had just been having to like make records then and put everything out out then yeah I don't know I wouldn't take it back for anything and also it's like so much of my music is about my life and I you know I like got to kind of like be on that girl roller coaster of my 20s and like have like insane experiences and be crazy and that is how I have like material I feel like I probably did enough in my 20s to like sustain the material for like a while because now it's like so much like it's so much like not as a crazy life's a little different now right with a couple with a kid and yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah I understand that I mean it's still you know it's still it's never gonna it's not like just having a kid makes everything oh like you know it's not like that at all you actually have a lot you you know like life goes on in this yeah but it feels less i don't know for some reason as insane yes yes it's a little mundane it's crazier in a weird way but it's more like i have two kids two kids two girls uh yeah they just uh third grade in kindergarten i'm drooling yeah i can't it's the most it's a coolest thing it's wild i love like just being a parent now and just that connection you have to other parents like you know you just like i was backstage at a show that i was just doing in london and and i'm just like kind of walking and talking with one of the guys backstage and he's pulling out pictures and being like look at this video look how smart she is like look and you're like well look at this one look at what she's doing you know it's like that excitement that you that it feels like unlocking a key to this like little secret like love club no it is and it's funny as long as you're there it feels great but you know then sometimes i go into the world and i kind of i always think about this anthony bourdain i don't know the exact quote but i was reading an interview that anthony bourdain did obviously a while ago and he was just like you know once you're like a dad like you know you try to break out like the ramon shirt and then get it go go out and be in the mix but after about like 30 minutes you're like i gotta throw this shit away like i can't like and i don't know like i still feel quite like i don't know i feel like myself and a lot of i i'm actually surprised by like how i don't i don't know like i need i need tips then i need i need advice on that i don't know maybe i didn't but then i i guess like it's not like i guess before as well i'd i'd certainly like haven't been wanting to go and be like doing crazy stuff for like you know what i mean just in a different place yeah exactly so it's not like it's been this like hugely drastic thing and it's also like the best excuse ever for like streamlining your life a little bit not like running around as much like being quite intentional it kind of helps you have that bedrock because you can't you can't like you know I can't um just like take off and go everywhere and da da da so it's um I have to be like much more attention which I think actually is something that is like not only good for me and I have this like grounding uh this thing that keeps me very like grounded now but it also keeps me like grounded to a place more which is something that after a long time of moving so much I'm actually really happy for so how do you how are you gonna work yeah i'm saying that i'm going on tour she's coming with me she's coming with okay she's coming with me and how old is she now she's almost six months wow yeah but it's kind of probably the best time no because like before she's gonna just be figuring out in a couple of months how to like crawl and and walk but we'll see we'll see i'm like just throwing myself into being like you know she's got to come with me so you just well you know a bus will be fun for her i think yeah there'll be so many people around like she'll she's quite you know she's social she's like wants to be looking at everything and having fun i'm gonna be saying just ask me in a few months i'm gonna be like it'll be tough on you it might be probably pretty fun experience for the baby i mean they don't really know what's going on it's just probably everything's new and different it's gonna be exciting exactly you know stimulating you know it will be stimulating exactly she's not gonna be she's not you know it's yeah she just came to london with me on her first um that was like a first like long flight and she was born here yeah she was born here yeah how do you feel about does that does that feel how do you feel about that as a british she has like a little american passport now which is pretty cool which is really strange actually to see i'm like oh my god you like you were born in la wow um but it was it was very special to bring her back actually and kind of go for it i went early and and had you know all the family we went to the countryside she went and saw the tower of london like i just like yeah we we went everywhere that's awesome and it was beautiful yeah to have all the family it is it is yeah i did like pull up my heartstrings a little bit being like oh everyone's there's so many people in england or london that like love her and they're obsessed with her and like so much family so it makes yeah it makes you think you're like ah yeah where where do you want to be yeah yeah so that's the thing is like you can't i i think the i can't plan you can't really like plan like both me and my partner like we can't we can't really plan that much but there might you know there'll be like nice stretches of time when maybe like a movie will be shot there or something um or you kind of you you plan as much as you can to be home but there's an element of there is an element of like we don't really know what things look like all the time and things change so you i can't you kind of got to be pretty go with the flow yeah yeah that's that's that's i mean yeah that's a while until like school starts and then that'll be a different thing right like it's like i feel like you get a couple of years at the beginning of freedom yeah exactly where you can move them around a little bit more and then and then yeah in the future it won't it won't be like that but are you playing are you playing your daughter music uh yes i'm playing her a lot of music i'm yeah i feel like disco she's into uh fleetwood mac um she likes yeah i play her like leila by eric clapton because my mom used to play that for me a lot um and then i'm and then i'm doing like baby mozart and stuff because i'm just like trying to you know you're like you're you're like oh well if she listens to mozart she'll be a genius yeah which probably will be yeah exactly i don't know if the baby mozart's doing it but we try and then like playing piano actually like my yeah my like we both play piano so we we kind of like that's actually really sweet to see to see her watch that i'm upset i'm like she has to one thing i'm like gonna be crazy about i really want her to be able to play guitar and piano and like have you do your kids play instruments yeah and i've gone through periods of um of pushing them not pushing them but being you know like being like well it's probably good to have some discipline you need to be cool come on like you need to play guitar or piano it's like not and then and then but the times when like i pull them out of lessons and i don't talk about it much you know then i notice like oh i'll poke my head around the corner oh she's playing guitar or she's playing be like it's like oh it's cool you know so yeah you probably can't exactly you can't even force it can you just got to play the music you got to play a lot of music so they get a lot of exposure and build their taste you know other palette and then and then hope for the best that's the best thing yeah i feel like my parents didn't actually do that for me too much like we got like tracy chapman and my dad was very into like bruce springsteen but like i think there were four of us and my mom would just be like like the noise of just all of us at a certain point like they weren't like super educational but i i don't know in a weird way that also made me really hungry to go and find find out about music and i kind of your siblings similar do they have the similar um yeah my sister's actually my my sister's really good um he was kind of similar and i kind of like we all like pass it around and i guess i passed it down quite a lot but i was like that was like my religion is finding out about everything when i was a teenager and um you know yeah london when you're 18 and kind of um it was incredible like i remember yeah just like getting out into nightlife and that was like a time where you could go to a bar in camden and like the baby shambles would be around and amy winehouse would be walking around and i'd be like a you know teenager in london and taking all of that in it's like there was so many good like rock band shows happening that was like great it It was a great time for like indie music.

35:58It was great. Yeah. So that was, I kind of, yeah, I had like, I had the whole of London at my fingertips to kind of soak into. Yeah. From 18 to sort of now through the making of the new album, how has your taste sort of changed, evolved over that course of time? If you can. I mean, there's not, I don't know. I have like a pretty wide range of things that I love. Like, you know, like there's, it's, I think it's like different to what I mean there's always like things in your head as well right it's like I think when I first when I put my first record out I was I think like the what I wanted to make it at the beginning especially was like I think I was really struck by Lou Thuillon do you know who she is she's Jane Birkin's daughter and she she made this record and I guess like maybe I resonated with it she'd been an actress and done fashion and all this kind of stuff and like I felt this like I guess like that was someone I looked at and I went like oh you've made like this amazing record and there was a song called I See You and that that kind of music like I wanted to I don't know I like when I was you know I felt yeah I felt like I wanted to make music like Marian Faithful and like Cat Power and Velvet Underground and like that was you know that was and and i and i guess i really didn't i was like oh i know i don't want to sound like i think if i'd like come out with something like really like you know i didn't want anything like pop or and you know nothing like that and you know when you go into a studio i want like real instruments and like and like brutally it's like i wanted to do i wanted to literally just be in a room with the like with candles on and not do something to click and and just have something that was like very much like a feeling um and not have yeah I think I was like kind of allergic to like things feeling feeling like produced and production like that but now I'm not now I'm like you know more open to it but it was also where I was in my head where I was like I can't I I don't it wouldn't it wouldn't feel right to like come out of the gate having come from like these different industries as well to suddenly be like I'm a pop star like that was like my And like, I was like, oh, that would just never, that wouldn't work.

38:18And it's not, it would like never be aligned with what I like. But it was also my tastes and what I really liked. And everything, and you know, everything was quite like, I guess I, yeah, at that point, like I, and I was, I was more new to songwriting, I guess. But like that, everything was, everything's quite like, I don't know, I listen to it now and I'm like, but it was also my headspace. It's like, everything's quite like, there's like a dreariness to things. and I never wanted to like jump up or go big on something. It was like all like, just like got to be very like, you know, like, and I get, and I get, and it's all about what your headspace is in when you're making a record, right?

38:56Like what you think you're, like what you allow, where you like allow yourself to go and like where you are. It's a good vibe though. I mean, listening to your first album, always makes me want to put on Knocking on Heaven's Door afterwards for some reason. It just has that kind of open ethereal kind of. with brad cook and i was like really obsessed with brad cook um and he'd produced for waxahatchie and there was a song there was a song called his golden messenger um by his golden messenger called cat size blue and like that was like one of the times where i was like oh um that that song will fit this this that kind of like connects to this world and um and i was like oh he'll never he'll never want to like work with me or like he's he does what i just i didn't have anything going to me i had no label nothing like and it's like he's gonna be like who are you and luckily we had one friend in common um dave sittick from tv on the radio who had been like working with for for years and he's been like a buddy have you made music with dave yeah what me and dave no we've never released any of it no me and dave were uh like went to texas one um to like reno one year and and made like you know just like had made like bonfires and like hung out for like two weeks and and we just like talked so much and made so much music but yeah so I've known him for years and Brad had produced um one of his Neville Boys albums so so yeah I kind of I think like I got I got Dave to you know say like oh she's she's like okay or whatever she's like not she should you should work you should do it with her it'll be cool he gave you the the stamp of approval yeah yeah yeah and we did and we did a bunch of stuff we did like some production together as well at Justin Vernon's studio in Wisconsin for this record too, which was pretty cool.

40:42Was he around? No, he wasn't around. We were actually meant to do a session, but he cancelled on me. He was busy. He was sick. But yeah, I would love to work with him. Wow. So how many songs have you made with Dave Sittek? We have a bunch. Yeah, we have a bunch. I don't know why. I don't know why we haven't managed to finish them actually. or like we just I don't know I've kind of like gone out but he was sort of my gateway into I don't know just like but Dave's like done I mean he's done so many cool things he's like you know the yeah yeah yes he did a lot of that early stuff um so like yeah I would always go around to his house um and and like sit with him and he's he has like it's really like perspective and um you know he's he's been through he's been through it he's been through like the music industry he's he kind of he has a great like bullshit what's called barometer yeah and um and yeah he like taught me a lot actually and kind of like invested a lot of time in me how did you meet him i think i met him from a cold email i would just cold email people yeah it's really gutsy yeah i did and then i did that also um uh there was a bunch of stuff like that before you know before i had like a team or anything i i cold emailed uh bell and sebastian and i went and made a song with them which i put out recently because once i got like a manager and team and i suddenly kind of like year like a year and i was like oh and i have the song with bell and sebastian they were like what like what do you mean like you have a song with them like yeah yeah like went over there once and we hung out for a weekend and made the song so i ended up putting that song out um called every day's a lesson in humility but that was like such a that was a song that we'd recorded like such a long time ago it's funny that's really yeah it's funny that was like yeah i guess i was like trying i guess i was always trying to you know you're that's just what you do you're trying to just meet get in the room and be with people that are inspiring and cool yeah because you just never know what's going to happen of course no especially with people especially those you know those people those that's pretty you know yeah you want to like yeah yeah yeah and things can yeah you just you just it's like building a tapestry and um and finding those people that yeah because like you're nothing you're you know you're really nothing without um like that like the yeah the the amazing collaborators that you have and the people that you want to hang out with for weeks on end and try and make something together that you guys are super proud of.

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47:15Do you know if TV on the radio is getting back together? Is that happening? I don't know, actually. No, I have no idea. I heard that maybe they are. Yeah, probably. I think so, maybe. That's incredible. I don't know. I don't know, though. Yeah. But Oasis are getting back together, right? Oasis are. Are you going to go see them? Oh, my God. I have to. I just did a cover of that the other day at All Points East in London. Oh, cool. Yeah. What'd you do? I did Don't Look Back in Anger, which was so fun. Nice. It was so fun. But the crowd in London, just like, oh, my God. it's just like amazing how everybody especially in england it just it just like does something to people whether that everyone's just their music yeah it does i like i feel like it's going to be just like the best it's going to be like us kind of winning like a huge football game or something yeah winning a world cup or something it's kind of that level it feels like yeah maybe not quite that level not quite the level but i think it's going to really do a lot for like making everyone I'm really happy and like uniting the country.

48:11And it's going to be, I can't wait. Yeah. Yes. You were also, you were, that festival was a few days after. You opened for Taylor Swift too, right? In Wembley. Yeah, that was on the Saturday. And then the, and all points was on the Sunday. So it was like really fun weekend. What a wild weekend. It was so good. What a crazy, playing Wembley would just like, that's. It's insane. I think that's probably, you know, people always talk about Madison Square Garden and there's different venues, but I don't know. I think that's because of Queen. there's some great I know that's mad like Crosby Stills and Nash stuff I mean just Wembley to me just feels like insane you know it's crazy yeah it was insane and it's Taylor Swift too like on top of that and like I'd been to Wembley I think I think it was like 2017 or something but I went to go and see Reputation there like a couple of years ago and was just like shaking my ass like ah you know with my sisters and my friends and I just yeah you just couldn't have told me that that was ever going to happen like I just it's just like what it's nuts and they they have these like sliding doors and you walk out there and i kind of just you know it's very strange to like the most amount of people i've probably ever played to is like maybe like lollapalooza and in um in chile and argentina like maybe like maybe like 10 000 or something and then you're in a stadium that's like got like about yeah i I think it's like 92 ,000 or something.

49:35And it does. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. It was insane. It was just 92 ,000 people. The best thing about that was also just, yeah, not only, I mean, like the, it's like going to one of your favorite shows ever. Like I've been to the Eros tour before. It's like such a fun night. So did you go to the other Wembley shows like earlier in the year? I went to, I went to New York. I went to New York last year and it was so fun. Like it's so, it's insane. And then also just getting to do that, like, with my family as well. Like, my dad had kept being like, because it hadn't announced for ages. And I told him about it.

50:10And he was like, I guess it's not happening then. I guess it didn't happen for you. All right. Sorry for you. And I'm like, no, dad, it is happening. You know, they don't believe anything until it's like in, until like their friends can see it or whatever in like the press. And I'm like, no, dad, I swear it's happening. It's like, yeah, that would have been fun. I'm like, no, no, no. We're going to go to Wembley. Like it is a thing. And then he was just kind of like, you know, it was like he couldn't believe it. So like doing that thing, having that moment in your hometown with your family, with all your friends around was like one of the coolest days of my life.

50:46That's really wild. That is really wild. It was really fun. Let's circle back quick. You mentioned that you play piano. You and your partner play piano. Did you learn how to play piano through Daisy Jones and the Six? I mean, I like played a little bit before, but there's nothing like learning. Yes. Being in like having a teacher for three hours a day and like actually, you know, really getting into it and doing like all the crazy shit that we had to do. Which is what you had for the show. Like, you know, we learn like so many songs and there was like a Beethoven thing at some point that they were like, this is going to be you're going to be film doing like this big like piano moment.

51:22And I learned it for literally I'm not joking. like yeah like every day obsessively obsessively obsessively and uh and then they're like oh no we're actually not going to do that so but it was like amazing because i got you know i got to like do that and it was and also that like year coming up to that we had before that was covid and everything it was like thank god it was like the best thing ever to literally just do zoom practice for like three hours a day i was like obsessed and it was so great for me and and and writing as well to get so much better at it yeah um but yeah i'm always like yeah i'm always doing i'm still i and now i'm like do it all the time i still have piano lessons and um that's just good it's just like the best thing ever to make you it makes you it's just like so therapeutic as well no absolutely do you do you primarily write on piano or guitar or do you not write on an instrument how are you i probably write on um usually i'm always right i'm kind of like start going on guitar and like I'm okay at guitar like I can get through but you don't yeah you don't actually like I'll do piano or guitar but I never like I never think you need you don't actually need to be like prolific in a lot of ways it's kind of um yeah like some I think it's more it's like more the practice of just going with like going and actually sitting and like forcing yourself and being like you're not you're not allowed to leave and you've got to like you've got to actually be present and that's the way that i find out like what's truly on my mind because i don't know it's very it's very easy to it's yeah it's like a practice doing that because it's very easy to like not even know what you're feeling or what you're you know when your life is just like going is it an outlet for you like do you do that in other words do you do that as a way of to just sort of decompress or is it with the purpose of like i want to write an album or write some songs and see what comes out or no because i don't think i'm ever like like i've i've i'm like you know in a way i'm not i don't really work where i'm like i'm gonna write an album so i'm gonna go and uh you know i've got two months to make a record and that's where i'm gonna write all the songs so that sounds like absolute hell to me it's like not what i would ever want to be doing I want to be like hit by something and be sparked by it and then go and write the song.

53:49And then if I like that, if that song is still coming back to me and it's still and I haven't like, you know, if it's if it makes it at the end and I still am in love with it, then it, you know, it's like you can. Yeah, it has to like stay in my heart, I guess, for a long time. But yeah, I can't I kind of am always in that writing mode in a way. Because, yeah, not that I have like a song that I want to write about every day, like at all. But you force yourself to sort of sit down quietly and work out some stuff and maybe something comes out or not. It sounds like, right? Yeah. Yeah. Some dedicated songwriting time.

54:31Yeah, but it's like that frustrating thing because you might also sit there and absolutely nothing comes out. And that's like, you know, it's like, so you also can't be like, have something come out. like it's kind of it's just like about yeah I guess it's like about trying to like shut off um even whatever the hell you can distract yourself with and I will fight with myself like it's you know it's yeah it's difficult to um and and a lot of the times it's like a yeah it's like a moment or it's like a conversation about someone getting drunk or like it's like thing and I've got like okay and now I gotta go and I want to go and write it and and and get that out now because i'll like forget about it or i won't it won't feel um it feels yeah it feels like these little moments where suddenly i get like i get like super sparked by um by whatever it is and i don't know i think yeah i think i'm i'm quite like uh um i'm definitely an artist that will go and look for things in all kinds of places like it's yeah it's it's that there's like so much um and it and it also is like such a joy because it's and it's always like bled into you know it's always bled from fashion and film as well and it and like and and from like my own personal life very much so but like it kind of all feels like very open and open to yeah you know that it could that kind of something might come from from anywhere in a way yeah your videos are cool too i actually really like you oh thank you but yeah i can't i can't wait for you to watch the new video i just made for um this do you listen to that song model actress whatever i was gonna bring that up oh my god we made a video for it i've never been more excited about a video in my life like i feel like it's just like completely different from what i've ever done it's really like taking the piss out of myself and in like a kind of very empowering way but it's like genuinely really funny um and i don't know i've never done something that's like funny and it's got script in it and like there's just like yeah i feel like there's like so much personality that comes out that in it and kind of um yeah that i i just quite got to put so much of myself into it i i really can't wait for you to see that one i'm excited to see it but yeah so like fashion what I was saying it's like so much you know there's so much um that um that I can pull from and bring into like creating like a world around the music which is really like the most you know like yeah you want you want the music to be awesome but there's so much else around that little three minute song yeah that you're you know that you're putting into making yeah making an experience for people it's cool that you have all these outlets i mean it's it's like you've kind of i mean i guess you you said you're taking like kind of like the piss out of you first of all yeah when i first heard myself exactly when i first heard your i think i didn't get hip to you till your first album and i heard move and i was kind of done it like i was the suzy quattro line i was like i'm in like this is like it was that's so funny that line was something that like i always have like little lines and little things that you know that you write down on something oh something someone said to me and that line was like i was backstage at a white stripe show like years and years and years before and had to be years ago yeah yeah and i was and i was wearing like a some like leather thing and i was quite young and jack white like walked back like walked past me and was like oh you look like suzy quattro and that and that was like i didn't know who suzy Quattro was but I was like I was like who's that and I like went home and got really into music and I was like and you know I wrote down like dear diary like Jack like Jack White said that I look like Suzy Quattro so I ended up like putting that in a song that was kind of about like a totally different thing and about like a certain night that I had with somebody who didn't say that I look like Suzy Quattro but I had that line in there yeah so sorry that was a sidebar no it's jack white told me i look like malcolm gladwell very different jack white stories suzy quattro i love mal he's a friend but jesus christ suzy quattro is cool as hell yeah that was cool um that's that's it's incredible that came from from him from a from a detroit another detroit legend um but yeah i was in i was in that so i i remember hearing that i heard that line i said that's fucking incredible i heard the rest of the song's amazing i heard the album loved that And then I looked at it and I was like, oh, I didn't even know you were a model and an actress.

59:02But it's incredible that you have all these different sort of areas to play. Being able to go do Daisy Jones and the Six or whatever comes next in terms of your acting. And then go do an album. It's like if something ever gets frustrating or isn't fun anymore, you can kind of go focus on the other thing. Yeah, I'm really lucky to have had that experience. Especially like, I mean, it felt like that. To be honest with you, like who knows what the next few years will be like. and it was very unique the last couple of years to get to do such an amazing show. And then, you know, when I even signed on to that show, I hadn't even made a record.

59:38Really? No. When did you sign on? Like January 2020. Wow, okay. No, but before that. And then we went to rehearsals, then everything closed down, then we had to push for a year. I made my record in between then when the world shut down. Then we went back, shot it, and the day Daisy Jones finished was when my record came out and then we'd been acting going on tour and then i went on tour so it was a very unique strain like that was like a very unique situation where like oh it's been like i feel like yeah when i look at like oh being able to uh act and do music and do that that i really think like the lot yeah the last two it's very unique situation and it was like it wasn't like very sustainable like i was waking up at like four in the morning doing interviews for the album release like it was like incredibly hectic it probably wouldn't like something that like that I don't think would work now like especially now I have like a kid yeah exactly so it was very it was like a very unique kind of set of events and like um and also like and kind of finally having that moment where I could where I could kind of where I yeah got it together to even like put a record out and like push myself in that way because I was yeah I was like scared I was like yeah I I was really like I held back for a long time because of like, yeah, I guess like a lot of like fear of and it's just timing.

1:00:59I don't know. Sometimes sometimes just suddenly something your your instincts suddenly go, OK, it's time to it's it's like time to it's it's you know, it's like a moment where and I had. Yeah, I had I had low expectations and it turned out like better than I thought it would, which is cool. but you just never I don't know you never know which way you're going in this crazy world that we are in so yeah it's been yeah I wouldn't it's not like yeah it's not I don't know if it will always be like you know seem so seamless as well you know but also it must kind of be like a which way is up kind of thing too like you know in terms of you're on stage I mean the performances in Daisy Jones and the Six were like incredibly like um not realistic the word but I mean they were incredibly convincing you guys really they really made us like actually do they like we we had to play every single note they wanted you yeah they wanted the cameras so we rehearsed hours and hours a day they wanted to the cameras to be able to roam and that you would be hitting the right note at the right time so it was like they really weren't messing around they weren't playing with us like they were like when we signed on it was like this is going to be an incredibly intense like we want every um and you know and that was kind of scary because at the beginning i was like you know it's like a job interview like yeah yeah i i i can i can play yeah we all were doing that we were all like oh yeah and then and then you know you just but yeah you kind of riley being i mean come on i mean um yeah she must have sang before she's got such an amazing voice her voice is really really stunning and she should really make it i mean she sounds great yeah she has like an incredibly unique like she can really belt and it's beautiful and she just knew what to do on stage like it was unbelievable that has to be in her dna somewhere oh my god i mean everything like every she's just like such an amazing actress and like such a fun human to be around like everyone was um but yeah so that was that was uh that yeah we we kind of like knew going in that it was really going to be like that you know it was serious it was boot camp and we did so much so much work before we actually got on stage but it was yeah it made it it made it like so much it made it like so rewarding actually and so funny as well to do that with a group of people you know like it's so funny to be like basically suck and like and all just like get better together and actually like by the end be like yeah we like we did this you guys could actually do an album that wasn't the soundtrack i know it'd be so fun yeah it would be fun we were trying to we were trying to go on stage and everything and then there was like strikes and all kinds of things that happen yeah i'm glad that's resolved um before you go what what's the store lawsuit piqued my my interest oh yeah do you like it yeah i do and then um yeah but like it was that was that what i mean did it does that come up from your life or is it just i feel like that one was like a cheeky like we wanted like a metaphor for like i can't yeah i kind of like love the idea of yeah it's probably what you're going back to you like sounding quite mean actually isn't it it's like you're like that's scary that is scary but I thought that word was quite like an entertaining kind of idea of like yeah all the girls lining around the bathroom and like everyone's everyone's exchanging information and like there's a bunch of girls that like know you know we've all like got we've all like actually discussed what you're like and we've got this like yeah it's like a metaphorical kind of like we've we've got like the lawsuit of all the shit that you've that you've done you know yeah but that was yeah i don't know i think like that kind of how did you hit on that as a metaphor sorry that kind of well it was like kind of that sort of um yeah i guess i i kind of wanted like a cheryl crow song i think that was like where i went to with that like you know having that kind of like laid back i love lucinda williams um i love uh like that plane song problem with it that was like another so good the got um katie from waxahatchee is in it it's like the most beautiful song problem with it um but yeah like something you know and and like going on tour as well like you start going yeah i don't know it like changed me a lot like starting to go and do shows and you think like you start going like what would be like yeah good luck with that last you know you get i just knew that kind of kept going around my head and i was like oh that's that would be like a really fun thing for people to play for to for people to like be singing at a show that's pretty amazing and i mean i was curious to also i mean i guess i was sort of curious too like just with your i mean there's so many i don't know how to phrase it other than i guess in in in acting it feels like there's a lot of bad act bad actors not in the actual acting sense i mean people who with bad intentions right right you can come across that you can come across and I don't know much about the modeling world.

1:05:51I imagine that's there as well. It's fucked up. Yeah. It's all fucked. No, I'm kidding. It's not all fucked. It's actually not all fucked. I was going to ask that. How fucked is it all? No, it's not all fucked. Or not? Yeah. No, I think there's like things. Yeah, I think there's like things that, I don't know. It's kind of like, but I also think there's, I don't know, we forget that there's like really fucked up stuff that goes on and like working at mcdonald's too it's like you know like there's so there's there's yeah there's fuck there's fuck shit everywhere i don't know that this there's so there's like the story is as old as the tale of time isn't it with like in our industry and like um but i don't know do you not think music industry is fucked up as well or it can be fucked up or they can be no no you don't think so no it can be no it can be right like look at like the history of like what happens to musicians and like and how i don't know i think you can get yeah i think yeah maybe it's like a difficult thing uh to um i think chapel roan spoke about it recently i feel like do you remember she was talking about like she said something like oh people do very well when like there's sort of like no boundaries and you have to you kind of you get like worked into the ground or like you can do very well but like you you personally will you know it's hard to yeah maybe it's hard to like have that um it's i guess it's i guess only you can go hey like is it crazy that i haven't had like a day off in six months or you know what i mean like and and that's actually quite difficult to be the advocate for yourself to like be able to actually like live life and but it's like so important especially with especially with music because if there's no if you're just like working all the time and and the and you're not actually going to get to go and like live life like what the hell you know you won't have anything to to write about so there has to be like that that breathing that kind of like um off time in a way but yeah you have to kind of like learn how to advocate for yourself which is some which is difficult when you're when you know you want to do really well and you want to like please everyone around you and all that kind of stuff it gets easy i think it gets yeah i don't know for me personally it's got it gets um it just gets easier and actually more enjoyable as i get older because um i've been around you get like i've been around the block i kind of know i know what it looks like to to to be working a lot and doing well and also be miserable and like you know you you kind of you you've you've you kind of like um figure it out and more you're doing a great job i wish i I knew how to say no to people and set more boundaries for myself.