The 500 Presents: Jeff Daniels

34:14You know, who gets the solo here? I don't like what you did there. I mean, that doesn't happen on a set. You don't do a scene and then, you know, say to Meryl Streep, Meryl, you want another one?

34:30it's more of a of a a chemistry thing you're you're seeking that at least i am you're seeking that going in whether it's with jim carrey on dumb and dumber you're just trying to bounce you're trying to play tennis verbal tennis with whether it's jim on that movie or meryl and heartburn or or anybody else in anything it's all about plugging in and trading licks yeah Yeah. Same song, which is the scene you're doing. Yeah. You can't do it by yourself because there are two people in the scene and one person wants one thing and you want something else. And that's that's why you have that scene drama.

35:11So it's a it's a little different. I haven't run into a lot of people who are, you know, could you just stand a little closer? It's my close up. You know, I haven't I haven't run into that too much. I worked with people who didn't tolerate that, who were far bigger than I was. And I learned early on that it was more about. Making the people that are with you as good as possible. and what actor did go off of that what actor that you've worked with you probably early on do you think you learned the most from Meryl yeah I did a couple things with Meryl uh Heartburn and then uh what was the other one um oh it was over oh the hours and she just plugs in she's so moment to moment she's so prepared she's so professional but she's listening to you and she's whatever you're giving her she's using and so that whole thing of you know acting in front of a mirror uh-uh uh-uh and and man when you plug into Meryl Streep I could imagine suddenly it's like it's it's it's the chemistry that everybody that magical thing chemistry and I you know and I think stills and again going back to that Chicago concert I saw you know stills and young were playing off of each other yes yes we're gonna talk about that you know ego and all of that but man they learned how to do that with yeah and that's a lot of what what a what a good scene with a couple of actors who are listening uh do and so in that sense it was similar well and i want to i want to go right into what you just said because that takes us into the first track which is carry on which is a steven still song um i love that you said that about playing off one another because one of the reasons because steven still is such an incredible guitar player and then to have someone like neil young who also is it's kind of like as a comedian you know when you hang out with a group of comics that are funnier than you because it makes you better like you want if you're the funniest guy in your group you know the guy started with you know gerard carmichael angelo bowers who unfortunately is not with us anymore but two of the most brilliant comics i've ever met which took my game up and even now spending time with Burr and Big J Oakerson I mean and being here in New York it's just it ups your game and I could see why someone as talented as Stephen Stills would want to have someone like Neil Young in the band because it's going to make him a better player and I feel maybe not so much you know where this is where carry on isn't the you know the guitar song on the record but it's it's it is the first track and it does have one of Stephen Stills you know because at the time everybody was doing this open tuning, like alt tuning of their songs.

38:06And Stephen Stills ends up putting this together. Neil Young, though, isn't on it. You have Stephen Stills. He does basically everything. Lead vocals, harmony, acoustic, electric, organ, bass, guitar, percussion. David Crosby brought in to do the harmony. So is Graham Nash. I think this is the perfect song on the record to open the album with. I don't think any other song would draw you in the way that carry on does your thoughts on it. I agree. I agree. It grabs you immediately. It's this is like, I put this onto the gym and I was like, I mean, it's still kind of pumped me up. It's just, it's there's, this is the real moment.

38:47Cause of course, like sweet Judy blue is, I'm going to, if I fuck it up, sweet Judy blue eyes. That's the main, that was the big one off the first record. Yeah. Which is one of the greatest songs ever written. And this is arguably probably my favorite Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young song. I feel like it's just everything about it I love, you know, and then also finding out about kind of what's going on, which we're going to talk about later as well, which is like, you know, Graham and Joanie are dating, but they're breaking up. David loses his girlfriend. Neil Young is just tough to work with. I mean, these are real issues.

39:20So this song, I feel, carries a much deeper feeling and meaning behind it. And we've talked about, like I said, the career, you know, and Carry On is a way, you know, we're halfway through the recording. They realized they needed this song. And in a way, it's almost like advice to the band. We were talking about your career at the beginning and we said you've done so much. Was there a point in your career where you've done so much, but you hit a point and you said, what else do I have to accomplish? Well, I guess I just have to carry on. Oh, I'm there now.

39:57And the carry on part is the, really? I really, you really want to carry on? No, you know, I think that back to the song, I think if you liked their first album, we need something that reminds you of that first album and carry on is that song. Sure. It's that, you know, we're not going to go completely different until later when we bring Neil in. But here's something that, you know, is harkens back to that first album that you love so much. And then we'll go on from there. That's what Carry On feels like. A good kind of, you know, for those who like the first album, this is, you're going to like this first song.

40:43That's what it feels like. It really does. It really does. Why, are you feeling, say, are you done? Are you not going to act anymore? Or like, are you just, is it? No, I just, you know, it's kind of, you know, call me if you need me. Yeah. Versus chasing. You're chilling, dude. You just haven't enjoyed it. 50 years of pursuing. Yeah. You know, I definitely, you know, once I did To Kill a Mockingbird on Broadway, which I did for a year. I came out of that and I could be done. Yeah. I felt like I had accomplished whatever it was I was going to accomplish looking back. Yeah, I did it. Now, other things have come along.

41:36I've done them, but now it's more about challenging yourself as an artist and, you know, I'm being focused on some other things. I have a theater in Michigan. The music I'm really enjoying. Yeah. You know, I can play clubs or, you know, 500 seaters all over the country and sell out, you know, so, you know, that's, that's as interesting to me now, if not more so than eight times a week on Broadway or, you know, another night shoot in Louisiana, you know? So we'll see. I mean, it's not to say there are a couple of things that are out there that are, you know, possibility of happening that I want to do.

42:17Yeah. Because I haven't done them yet. I haven't played that kind of character yet. And if it comes through, which I hope it does great, but I'm also just going, yeah, call me if everybody wants me, you know, Is there, who's the director that if they called you, I don't know if you want to answer this, but who's the director that if they called you, you, you would in a second be like, yeah, I'm there. Scott Frank. Really? Who do did he direct wrote and directed Godless and which we did on Netflix, a big Western. And I won an Emmy for that. Thanks to Scott. He just didn't department Q on Netflix.

42:56He did Queens Gambit. He's really a good writer director. and uh yeah if he were to you know i i'd go with him you know if he emailed me go i got something for you i'll go what time do you want me there tomorrow yeah yeah yeah yeah like i'm sorry dude i'm playing a gig though in in tulsa it's a 400 seater if you uh cancel you can't do it all right let's move on to teach your children uh probably you know one of the i'd say one probably the the the biggest long lasting song. I feel like that might've come off of this very interesting story behind it. So this is a Graham Nash song. He wrote this while he was still in the Hollies in 68, but he wrote it very much at first, like a Henry the eighth by Herman's Hermit.

43:42So not the country version. It was stills the one that told him to change it, to make it have more of a country song. Graham saw his, I saw this photo of a toy hand grenade in central park by a famous photographer that I forgot to write her name down. I don't know if you know. And there's a moment where he thinks you can either teach your child to be good or bad. And also, a little side note, Jerry Garcia from The Grateful Dead plays slide guitar on this. A little interesting factoid. Are you a Dead fan? No. Really? And it's not a judgment at all. I just never hooked into him. And no, no, no, no.

44:24John to Bruce Springsteen in the late 70s and never looked back yeah dude there's two guys there are two guys that are awesome to follow but I was I fought the Grateful Dead for years and then for doing the podcast man having we had you know Senator Al Franken remember he's a guy he's the reason I'm still doing the podcast I was gonna quit and he goes you can't quit you're halfway way through man this is groovy and then he his excitement it rubbed off and they all told me listen to the live shit the albums are good listen to the live shit I started doing that and now I love them um but here but let me get to the question well actually before I get to the question you tell me your thoughts on teach your children because the message everything it's it really is you know being somebody that's a father I mean is this song hit home in a different way or is it just always been something that you loved and and felt connected to uh it was okay you know i mean i wasn't mash again mash wasn't the guy that pulled me in sure our house is a nice song you know that's that's nice teach your children nice that's you know sure yeah but what stills doing you know i remember nash saying somewhere that when they brought Neil in, he gave us an edge, you know, and he probably gave Graham an edge because, you know, the songs Graham was writing, except for Military Madness, which was pretty on point.

45:54I don't know who wrote Ohio, but, you know, Neil gave them an edge and maybe too much of an edge sometimes. But yeah, there's some of the softer stuff is very nice. You know, the harmony is terrific that's wonderful but you know i'm i'm kind of where are still songs totally um this isn't my favorite but like i said it's definitely the one that i knew immediately when this came on but but to take it to the meat and potatoes of the song though uh more than ever now we're we're seeing a world where parents have the option to teach their children they grew up in the with a with hippie parents and they teach their children to be empathetic or you have these these these I don't call them new parents, but that are tough and they're teaching their kids not to care about their neighbor.

46:40Children are the seeds of the parents that plant them, basically. To use a lyric from one of the songs that's going to be coming out later, do you think we ever can get back to the garden where we can get back to people that are open to the other?

46:58I hope so. Yeah. I hope so. I mean, I think that's, you know, the hope, basically. I don't know how or when right now it doesn't look possible. Everybody's divided.

47:18You know, the people in power are basically doing what they want. And, you know, who's going to stop them? So I hope so. I've always felt that, you know, I go back to Reagan and Tip O 'Neill, Obama and John Boehner. You know, they got in a room and they came together on a deal or they figured something out. And you don't get everything you want. You get as much of what you want as possible. And you're serving something bigger than yourself. and uh until we can get back to that um i don't see it yeah i yeah i think i think it's going to come down to the people in the country who either like what's going on you know a year or two years from now three four years from now or they don't you know uh if we still have elections i hope we do i hope yeah yeah definitely it definitely feels like once you know 2000 well really 2014 15 when when when that you know that entity came into our political uh stratosphere it felt like the you know the the puppets out of the box and it's like it's just it's just how do you get that thing back in there once you've cranked it up and it's popped out it's like you know i feel like people are only going to be leading that way because on that side and and it's i do think listen i i do think they're they're that you still have good people in this world um but i completely agree with you so what do you so then how can you as a father and i think i think um no i just i just think people will will get back there get we'll get back to that at some point It's it's not this is not new what's going on now.

49:20Maybe it seems like, you know, and in a lot of ways it is more aggressive towards something that that eliminates people or discards people, you know, you know, and kind of tramples on what we thought what democracy was. but it's you know there have been politicians forever yeah that have gotten into office and done things and somebody had to where the guardrails and where the checks and balances and all that stuff so we'll see we'll see i mean i it's it's it's up to the people if the people want this then it will stay if if in a few years they don't then uh maybe they'll go to the election elections and vote for something else.

50:07We'll see, but it's not up to an actor to decide. I know that. Yeah. Well, what, when, when you were becoming a new father, what was something that your father or mother taught you that you passed along to your children? Well, invest in yourself,

50:25which I've done for better or worse. um you know as an actor you you choose projects that that you want to do yeah i've kind of done that picking up the guitar writing plays doing a theater company yeah that's me investing in me and whatever talent i have just trying to see how far i can take it um yeah that but yeah my my parents were man treat everybody the same yeah he really was uh my dad was was uh um if i ever see you treating one of the kids in town who doesn't have a lot of money poorly. He didn't have to finish the sentence. Good man. What a good man. Oh, man. And he was a lumber company in a small town.

51:27He was one of the successful business owners. He was the mayor for a while. He ran the school. You know, he was like Atticus Finch in this little town. But man, he would, some guy who is barely making it with a family and And he'd come into the lumberyard and dad knew. And the guy was having trouble paying the bills. And he would say, come on up to my office. And he would sit with him for half an hour. And he would tell the guy at the end of it, you know, don't worry about it. You know, you pay me when you can. All right. And it was just private. He didn't do it for show. It was just private. He took care of people who were had less than he did.

52:11But that was just, he would tell us that, but then he would show us that by example. And, you know, I've tried to do that. Wow. I love that. You're on a set with an actor and it's their first show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and you use and you I've done, you know, decades of what I've done. And and you can tell that he's nervous. And so you sit with him and you talk to him about the scene or you talk to him about, well, yeah, what you're doing? Yeah. Where are you staying? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You just you kind of, you know, yeah, you want him to be good. This isn't about, you know, just say your line so we can put the camera on me.

52:57It's the opposite of that. And that that comes from my dad. And that's why you work. And that's why you've had a 50 year career, because you do that. And your dad taught you that's incredible. That really is incredible, man. Yeah, unless you're an asshole, then I'll kill you. Yeah. All right. This is the laugh. I've seen stars do that to people who were being divas. Oh, my God. So I have that in my back pocket, but I rarely have to use it. Yeah, I love that, though. I love that. And that comedy is what's going to lead into the next question. So I'm very excited about this next one. This is for me and people in my generation.

53:33But first, let's talk about the song Almost Cut Your Hair. Cut my hair. I'm sorry. This is a David Crosby song. First song on the record that Neil and bass player Greg Reeves are on. This is David's thing, man. It's kind of goofy. This is he's going to let his freak flag fly. Hippies find themselves at a point where they're like, do I cut my hair today and just enjoy the machine? You know, as you know about David Crosby, he was a rich kid in Hollywood and he took that line about the freak flag from Jimi Hendrix. Before I asked you the question, And thoughts on Almost Cut My Hair, the song, David.

54:10I know you're a stills guy. Yeah. Gotta love the walrus. Gotta love the walrus, man. We're coming out of Woodstock, you know? Yeah, baby. And maybe that album had been released for all of us who didn't get to go. And you could tell there was, whether it was the end of the 60s, which it was, the end of something, or whether it was this kind of, we're different. This generation is different. It led to The Who. It led to Zeppelin. It led to Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, others of importance, you know, the Eagles, Jackson Brown, I'm guessing now.

54:53But it was a turning point. And for them to come out with Almost Cut My Hair, It harkens back to, you know, when you grew your hair and, you know, they made fun of you. You know, Bob Seger in that song, you know, main turn the page. You know, he has a lyric about, you know, they make fun of his hair. Is this a girl or is that a boy? And here's Crosby and Stills Nash and Young going, keep the hair long. you know it may be a couple years after Woodstock and we're going into the 70s but you know don't lose the ideals don't lose the principles that we were yeah fighting for when we weren't stoned out of our minds you know yeah yeah yeah oh I you know I kind of look at it as you know it wasn't a fad it wasn't a something that we just went through and now we're over it we're all going to go corporate it's it's hang on to that that's that's the message I get it's so on the nose and I think read somewhere they almost didn't put it on the album but then yeah you've got stills and young going back and forth on it even on the album and certainly live uh that's makes the song just elevates the song yeah I want to I want to focus on uh let your feet I can't even say it so hard just let your freak flag fly that is hard for me to get out right now so you've done you've done so much uh with with with with drama theater and and just being such an accomplished actor but you were cast in one of the most successful comedies of all time and arguably one of my favorites by two of my favorite directors what is that like walking in there having to and I don't want to call it prove yourself but working with someone like Jim Carrey, who at that time was the biggest comedic actor, and not saying you hadn't been in comedies, but playing Harry, you know, versus Lloyd, it's just like, are people trying to talk you out of this, or are you fighting for this part?

57:00Like, how do you let your freak flag fly in a Farley Brothers movie with Jim Carrey? It was a freak flag flying moment, that's for sure. Because, yeah, the career was slowing down. I wasn't doing things that were interesting to me. I was a supporting actor in dramas, and it was okay. But I knew I could do comedy. I had done musicals, and I knew how to time. I could be in front of 600 people, and I knew how to land the joke. I knew how to set it up. I mean, you either have that ability or you don't. And I never did stand-up, but I did do comedies in theater. And so I knew I had that and I hadn't yet done it on film.

57:44And so I went out to LA because I had done a couple of independent movies in the early 90s, late 80s that nobody saw. And I told my agent, I got to be in something that people actually see. So I went out and auditioned for five movies and I got called back on three of them. Two, one of them was Dumb and Dumber. And that was the one I wanted. and, and I went and met with the Farrelly brothers and then they wanted me. And then I had to come in again and read with Jim and the Farrelly's. And, you know, I, I, I found out later they had been through 50 actors. Really? Names, names, friends, Jim calling friends of his going, come on, man.

58:37Okay. but you know, 10 million. Uh, no, I, we, I, they, it's a smaller, I, we, you know, they wanted too much money because, and it was also Jim at the time, all he was, was Ace Ventura. Yes, it's true. He had shot mask, but it wasn't out yet. As we're, this is April. We're going to start shooting dumb and dumber the end of April. and in the middle of shooting he flew to can on a weekend and mask premiered and it became huge yeah and then later when they released it in the fall or winter that's when jim became you know capital letters uh but at the time you know he was he really wanted an actor he was pursuing you know, name actors for it.

59:28And they just kept turning it down. I mean, because you read it and you're going, okay, well, 12 year old boys are going to think this is their Citizen Kane, but, you know, movie going public. And do you really want to get in a scene with Ace Ventura? Because Jim is, you know, I mean, when Jim turns it up, you know, as Chris Guest used to say, You started 11. So, but, but I wanted that. I wanted to work with someone what I considered to be a comedic genius. And I, and I, I learned quickly to let him lead. Yeah. You want Jim to lead anyway. And, and Jim on the, on the other hand was going, I need someone who's going to make me listen.

1:00:18I don't want to do my solo thing where I just you know take over a human tornado and everyone yeah I really want to you know make it's a buddy buddy movie I've got to have an actor who makes me listen or at least I can listen to and so that became kind of the little formula where and also if you let Jim lead you follow you're like a puppy on a leash and you can see me where Jim and there's like a half second delay, Harry, what, you know, all you have is like a big jerk, okay, you know, and then you go, and so that, that allowed us to kind of, you know, and then we would get into trouble, and I'd turn on or yell at him or something, but it was, you know, a comedian, and you know this, they'll try to top you.

1:01:10Sure. Yes, and, so it's that thing of, here's the joke, well, I'm going to come, well, I'm going to come, well, I'm going to come, you know, and the next thing you know, it's, well, what are we doing? What are we doing? And on the, on the first Dumb and Dumber that it was, maybe there was one ad lib, you know, what's the most annoying sound in the world? And that was an ad lib. But other than that, everything was written. It was, it was per the script, the gym and the Farrelly's had been over it. And this is how it's going to go. and you just executed it. And he couldn't have been nicer, more collaborative.

1:01:47If I had a punchline, he set me up. If I had one, I set him up. I mean, we were, it had to be a team. And that came from Jim wanting it to be a team. Wow. And we'll talk about, they were just the kings of the 90s, the Fairleys with, I mean, Kingpin, Dumb and Dumber, something about Mary. I mean, just some of the funniest movies of like my late teens, early 20s, and to be able to work. Like, Jim, I mean, you saw it immediately as a comic, the clips I've seen of him at the comedy store and just how talented he was and going into Living Color. Were you intimidated at all or were you just like, all right, this is groovy, like this is exciting, this is what I need to get out of my rut.

1:02:34I mean, cause like you said, you had done some independence, you know, did it come back? Did you, did you do speed before? And then, you know, or was it like, I did speed before that. And, uh, we were shooting and speed came, we were shooting April to the end of June, I think. Yeah. And speed came out in June and Jim had mask at the can film festival. And then that was, so we both had something come out, but you know, I was in speed, you know. not intimidated no i i i just wanted to execute what i was supposed to do and especially in jim's Jim's scenes where we're doing it together. You know, it's, it's not a competition.

1:03:22Yes. I get it. Collaboration. And, and if you're going to compete with Jim Carrey, you're comedically going to lose. So it was a collaboration and Jim was wide open to that. I love that. And this was my agents, you know, you talked about, there was an intervention before I was to fly from Michigan to LA to start, you know, doing wardrobe for Dumb and Dumber. There was an intervention. I had three of my agents, two in L.A. and one in New York, on the phone at midnight before getting on the plane the next day saying, we're going to stop this from happening. This is not you're not going to do this movie.

1:04:00This is a bad career move. You're going to regret it for the rest of your life. To be honest, Jeff, Jim's going to blow you off the screen. And wow, no confidence in you would be able to stay hang with everything you had done. the comedic genius that was Jim you know and I had shown nothing I mean maybe something wild maybe Purple Rose of Cairo but that was different this was there's comedy and arachnophobia it wasn't just a horror movie playing a funny character I mean but it way different not as slapsticky and you know but Liam Neeson Liam Neeson way before Naked Gun and Police Story was doing dramas I mean to be able to you know you never know it's Liam Neeson's doing that now I was saying I meant the other guy.

1:04:43What, fuck? Leslie Nielsen. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's what I meant. But even Liam, too. Yeah, I was right about one. Yeah, but I hadn't done it. And so, and they were trying, I was on a path to be a serious, important actor who one day would get a supporting actor nomination. And I just was going, look, I want to, I can do comedy. I want to work with Jim. and I knew then I mean not only would I eventually find a way to collaborate with him that worked but I knew that I had the snowball in the head I had the tongue on the pole and I had the toilet I had those three scenes Jim wasn't in those scenes unless they cut them out of the movie which was possible I was going to score so I knew I had that and so So after I got through the first week of shooting and everybody decided that, yeah, he's going to be OK, then we were fine.

1:05:40Good. Yeah. Good. I love that. I love that. I don't want to be too off topic, too, but it's like, what do you enjoy more, doing the comedy or playing the bad guy in Looper? Looper was I love that movie, man. I think you're great in it. So it's a great director. Joe Gordon-Levitt. it very nice i didn't i didn't i didn't understand that movie when you want me what do you want me to say that was but uh no i i the comedy is is more fun it's more the target that you have to hit is more sure um not everybody can do comedy and you know leslie nielsen and the naked guns is a perfect example of that deadpan you you look at him and you think that he doesn't know where the joke is, but he knows exactly where the joke is.

1:06:33And, you know, Peter Sellers, guys like that. John Cleese, who went big in Fawlty Towers. Guys like that stuck out to me. And so that's always been of interest to me. And then you do, you know like again like a drama like god godless uh where you playing you're playing somebody who i think i kill about 35 people throughout the whole series you know because it's the right thing to do you know but it's as you you start doing that you get into the mind of those guys that's fun there's fun in that but there's also fun and time and a good joke sure i mean it's funny because i love being funny on stage but as an actor i love playing serious like darker characters and the stillness and just even like staring at somebody and not moving is carries so much weight where I'm such a energetic person on stage um so I can see why playing the darker characters or playing somebody that has to kill somebody you know can be can be fun but someone especially being able to work in that you know in the comedic world you know and be able to really dip into your child you know those those things that you had as a kid I I mean, it's got to be, it's got to just be magical and to be able to do with one of the best that ever did it.

1:07:54I mean, and like you said, I mean. We didn't know it at the time. I mean, we, again, it's the fact that it's still funny to people who've seen it or are seeing it for the first time, you know, decades later is, it's like Pink Panther with Peter Sellers. You don't know it at the time, but then there you are still making people laugh. Yeah. That's pretty great. It was, you know, the fun of it for me was, and actors find little key thoughts that you can hang on to and you can say to yourself right before you do, you know, whatever you're doing on Thursday, you can grab onto it. And my key thought was Harry has an IQ of eight.

1:08:35A single digit IQ. You play it that way, dude. Not seven, not nine. and i would see the number eight and any intelligence that i may have had just vanished and then it was rolling and i was there i i held on to that for the whole shoot you did such a phenomenal job man and it holds up it's uh it's just you changed uh the teal blue and bright orange shitty tuxes for the entirety of history and i've seen so many people bite off of that uh friends of mine for halloween so great job dude listen if we're gonna talk about it in the next one another something very iconic years and we're talking about helpless we already mentioned the uh the song before i asked the question like you know we said this is a neil young song this is what he brought uh to the table everybody's blown away uh this is one that everybody played on.

1:09:37Did you give your thoughts on it already? Or did you just, we just mentioned it? You know, how do your thoughts on Helpless? You know, I know you're a Neil Young guy. You're Stephen Stills Neil Young. You know, again, it was Neil had the edge. And I don't know the lyrics offhand, but it was this kind of certainly melancholy, but it wasn't the sunshine that was our house and teach your children. Not at all. It wasn't the positive message that Graham was doing suddenly here comes a song called helpless and it again it was they were all doing their own things which i guess made it made it interesting it wasn't carry on for 12 songs or our house for 12 songs or even helpless for 12 songs it was there was a variety in there which uh and this And when, you know, however they slotted it on the album, you know, it jumped out.

1:10:35I love that you said that because I always like to talk about the sequencing and the sequencing on this record is phenomenal. Like every song, it's a new adventure, but the way they've laid them out in order, it just feels right. And to bring you to the question, like I was saying with the word helpless is that so many people in this world are feeling helpless. And when you started off with that opening monologue as well in the newsroom and deliver that speech in the pilot about how America is not the greatest country in the world and how you basically in three minutes deliver the fact that, you know, that this is something that that people now go to.

1:11:12Did you know at the moment when you did that speech, aside from Harry sitting on the toilet, obviously, that that speech would be one of the most powerful moments of your career?

1:11:25No, I knew it was important.

1:11:30Aaron Sorkin had, you know, originally it was that speech was not in the pilot. That scene was in the first episode. The episode started with us back at the newsroom talking about what happened at Northwestern. And about 10 days before we started shooting, Aaron came up and he goes, we need to see what happened. So I'm writing a speech. You'll have it in a couple of days. Okay. And two days later, he handed it to me and he said, do you think you can do this? and I said, Aaron, I've been waiting 35 years for a speech like this. Oh, I love that. And not just for what it said, you know, because I thought what it said was honest and important and maybe not everybody likes it, but there it is.

1:12:22But also for my career. Yeah. You know, I needed to hit a home run with that speech. It was placed, what, 10 minutes into the first episode? Yeah. So HBO and everybody involved knows that if this show even airs, and the day we shot it, we didn't know if we were going to have a series. It depended on me hitting a home run with that speech. It was day three of an 18-day shoot. We love Jeff. We think he's great. But, man, does he have to hit a home run with his speech. because that speech, if we air, will be when America sets down the remote. Yeah. They're watching newsroom, and I'll give you 10 minutes.

1:13:12I'm out. Boom, they go to something else. So that was important as to where it was placed. And the day of, we shot it in a place called College of the Canyons, which is an hour and a half out of L.A., because they had purple seats, which Northwestern had purple seats. at an auditorium. Number two, three, and four from HBO showed up that day. Sam Waterston, Olivia Munn, Tom Sadowski, who were in the cast, drove out to watch it. Sam, who's a friend, later said, I just wanted to see if I had a job or not. That's what was at stake. That was what was at stake. And I told Aaron, And I, and I, and I knew, and I had been around long enough and I knew that, you know, you've got to hit a home run.

1:14:07You can't hit a single or you got to hit it over the fence first take. So I did the work, you know, like any, any actor would do. You memorize, you rep it, you work it, you work it, you make the choices, you get it so you can ride it like you're riding a horse. And they, they, they shot this way first. And then when they turned around, they said, are you ready? I said, yeah. And rolled camera. I hit a home run on the first time. Wow. I looked over at the video village and they were crying. Wow. And not the performance. Yeah. But what it said. And they knew at that moment they had a series, they had a show and they had a McAvoy and, you know, and then we did a second take and, and Greg Mottola, director, came up and said, okay, on this one, the second half of the speech, instead of maintaining the anger all the way through, wish it could be, again, the greatest country in the world.

1:15:14Melancholy. And so you can see the change. And then we did a whole bunch of other shots, but that became the way we did it, was to, bang, here's the big rant, chew out the little sorority girl and then wish it could be. And here's what we could be when we didn't belittle education, when we did it, did it, did it, did it, you know, and get emotional about it. And that's at the end of that day, we knew we were going to have a series. I, you know, we, we, we had Rob Lowe on, I, we brought up Sorkin and it's like, he's arguably one of my favorite writers, whether it's television or movies. And I, I saw it from immediately when my parents rented Malice years ago, which I think is this underrated movie that he did you know in the 90s or maybe even the the late 80s but it's early 90s at that it's like I mean what was what's that experience like working with somebody because you were so many different directors working with somebody who's so dialogue specific and his words are like like you said earlier it's it's a it's a you know it's a dance you know you're but his words are so you know there's nuances to every sentence like you know like how much fun were you were you having working on that show working with sorkin it's the advantage to to working on anything where there's just one writer yeah um it's his voice it's just written um you know noah baumbach on squid and the whale um love that movie very under dude you were in two you were in two of my favorite movies that year with good night good luck and squid and the whale love that movie so underrated That was Noah writing about his dad and there weren't four other writers on it.

1:16:53Woody, you know, Purple Rose of Cairo. It's having that singular voice and you have that in the theater, you know, whether it's Broadway or whatever it is, there is one playwright. There isn't a committee of playwrights. There aren't three playwrights that have been on the script and we're going to give it to another one, which is what Hollywood does. You get to the set and five screenwriters, and we're on our 12th draft. And so you can note things to death. Well, that wasn't the case with Aaron. And once you pick up his rhythm, it's pretty clear. It's not hard. You just got to learn it and then be able to roll it.

1:17:38And it really works best when you can roll it. And all the people on West Wing, I mean, I studied that show. and I told Aaron I watched that show not just for the acting but I watched the writing and the way they could just you know it was it was just like I'm going down a rapids of a river yeah Aaron's the river and and and it's it's you just gotta find that that rhythm and it's there and and I never had a problem with uh you know Aaron can we talk about this I don't know what what I'm doing here. I don't know my choices. I know it was always very clear what McAvoy wanted, what he didn't want, what he was fighting against, what he was saying.

1:18:23It was always, you just had to learn it. And, you know, coming from the theater where you didn't change a word, you know, unless you went to the playwright and asked permission, you know, it wasn't until you go to Hollywood where you see the star walking on the set with pages going, yeah, I rewrote the end of the movie take a look at it okay you know that wasn't that we don't change a word okay great i don't have to worry about rewriting anything in my head good terrific great oh i love that yeah note to all the people making anything in the alien franchise go back to one writer please please let james cameron do it again no more alien three or prometheus's sorry i'm just that's my note to the alien franchise i love that franchise so much but dude well yeah sorkin dude i mean how many people go back to that speech with martin sheen talking to that that christian girl going through the bible verses i mean that that speech is up there with that people i mean it really and especially the direction that america's gone you know and there's still like we talked about earlier the hope of it i mean your character is speaking truth and and he aaron just knows and everything that he's done whether it's you know sports writers or saturday night live writers or talk show you know whatever it is or fucking social network i mean there's it's just brilliant line after brilliant line and and it's it's just to be able to see you know uh you do that speech and just actually talk to you now about it it's that makes it even better like just to know that it was like shit you guys weren't even picked up at that point did you chunk it at all you didn't you didn't like were there moments when you were doing it or that you were like at the beginning when you were running it like oh fuck all right what am I going to say here or did you see it immediately you saw it immediately right well I you know I did the work so that I was prepared and then you know I hit it but definitely hit it any actor you know you open on Broadway any actor that opens and you hit it you just have to do the work to do that and so I did that's all I was just, I did.

1:20:34I love it. It was, you know, one of Aaron's heroes, I think, as a writer was Patty Chayefsky. You know, he's another guy that, you know, you see William Holden and Faye Dunaway in a scene from Network. And it's Holden and Dunaway, but there are three people in that scene. And the other one is Patty Chayefsky. And that's what Sorkin does. and Scott Frank does, guys like Noah did it in Squid and the Whale. That's when it's okay that it's written. You know, the actor's job is to make it sound like it isn't. And that's, you know, that's where we come in. I love that. Oh, I love that. All right, speaking of somebody that wrote words that they had nothing to do with, the next song, Woodstock, was written by Joni Mitchell.

1:21:29And it's also... She didn't go. She didn't go to Woodstock. She did not go Graham Nash, her boyfriend Told her about it So this is her writing a song about what he said She was too busy Doing Ladies in the Canyon But she wrote the song As Graham Nash described it It's a beautiful song I mean, it's too bad that you couldn't go to Woodstock You know, your dad fucking I had a friend of mine, an actor friend of mine From New York who did go It was a nightmare I hated it The mud, it took, we couldn't get out, we couldn't get in. We go, oh my God. I mean, he just, it would just, it just destroyed it for me.

1:22:10I wanted to go to Woodstock 99 so bad. And I'm so glad in retrospect that I didn't, because I love the documentaries and the mess of it. I mean, it's, it's just, you know, it doesn't look enjoyable at all. And at least with the original Woodstock, there was a vibe and, you know, the boobs out and, you know, people dancing in the mud. I mean, you get all your Jimmy and you got Sly and the Family Stone and and former guest of the podcast to headline it, Blood, Sweat and Tears. Just which is crazy just to know that. So I wanted to ask you, what was the greatest event that had the biggest impact on you?

1:22:49Was it whether it was a concert, a play or a movie or an album? But like this, I'd just like to stick to more live something you saw live. Oh, oh, oh. I was playing guitar. I was an off-Broadway actor in the late 70s. And I was playing guitar and I could finger pick a little. And I wanted to get better. And I went to the bottom line and I saw Doc Watson and Merle Watson and T. Michael Coleman, the bass player, just the three of them. And I, that blew me away that, that made me want to learn what doc was doing or deep river blues or something, you know, which I can play now. But, um, that was like, that was, that was a mountain to try to climb, to try to what he was doing and what they were doing together.

1:23:46Um, and just with acoustic guitars, uh, that, and to be in a smaller room like the bottom line was, maybe it was, I'm guessing, 300 seats, and to see somebody that I had his album, somebody had turned me on to him, and there he was, and I'm going to go see him live, and oh, and he's blind, by the way. You know, that changed me. That sent me to the tablature books of Doc and Stefan Grossman and people like that. That was a trigger. How long ago was that? I forgot you said how old were you when he saw it. Late 70s. Late 70s? Late 70s, yeah. Something about live music that, you know, my writer Morty, well, I'll take it to this.

1:24:40We had the biggest music critic on the internet, Anthony Fantanoan, who has this show on YouTube. It's got like 3 million subscribers called The Needle Drop. He's like the dude on the internet that reviews records. A lot of younger stuff, older stuff, too. He's a really good dude. And we had done Prince 1999. And I asked him, who's about to make their Purple Rain? And he said, Tyler, the creator. And he's a young guy, you know, hip hop dude. But all these kids love him. And our writer, Morty, took his daughter and he was playing Madison Square Garden and I had nothing to do, no shows. And so I went on a whim.

1:25:10Don't know any of his songs. And there was a moment where he is singing, rapping. And then and then to the one side of the audience and the lights come on and you see the other side, you see the arena, that side. And it's all these kids just singing his lyrics. I don't know any of the songs. And it was just, it moved me so much because it was like, man, that's their dude. And I remember being that kid. And it's like, it's why I go to concerts nonstop. There's nothing. It's the same way we go to the movies. There's something about sitting in that dark room with strangers feeling that, you know, that, that moment, but, but with live music it's it's different than any other art form you know like whereas a movie yeah i agree with you i think theater can be that way too yeah i agree i think live music has it over theater and and that ai can't do now what tyler did no tyler's got to walk on that stage and have done the work to be that good tonight just for you in this room.

1:26:11And AI can't do that. Movies, you know, I think the day's coming when we can see Tom Hanks at 30 years old. Sure. And everybody around him is AI and so is Tom. And as long as the audience is okay with that and it makes 100 million, we're good, you know? But even, you know, you brought up... The live music thing is different. I think live music is, you know, Springsteen's got to get out there and do it. You know, I had to walk on the stage for four way street and hit it, you know. But we can watch Squid and the Whale and feel the awkward moments that that are in that movie. I remember squirming at certain parts by how uncomfortable it was, whether it was with Jesse's character or your character.

1:26:55I mean, because it's it's life. And that's a beautiful thing. That's something that you can't – no, dude, it's – every movie I go to see at the AMC when Nicole Kidman comes out and does that speech that she made$25 million for literally just wearing a nice dress and saying, movies rule, we cry, we laugh. Everybody cheers for that, you know? And it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. But I'll say it. I hope it hangs on. Yeah. Not just for myself, but for everyone. No, and you're – I dig it. I dig it, for sure. All right. Deja Vu. we got a couple more let's see i got a little morty just sent me these deja vu is a poignant song with a beautifully baroque intro section has uh david crosby writing about reincarnation in in the buddhist belief that energy never goes away it just keeps recycling while carry on uh was done in like eight hours from start to finish this track was an arduous and laborious process to get done uh thoughts on deja vu the title track um not a lot of thoughts about it i mean it just um it sounds like that was the one where crosby got a lot of help you know that might have been one of those where where you know they were jumping in versus just letting him do what he does or you

1:28:21know um yeah not a lot of thoughts about it that's funny that you say that because when we were going through this this is one that we were going to skip over because it just doesn't it's not bad but obviously it's a title track of the song but i like the question that he came up with uh this might seem like a peculiar question but you know going back to any of the characters if you've done a sequel with harry uh which you got to do the sequel with uh with dumb and dumber two, who would you want to pick up on and see where they're at now or just visit that character again? Oh, man. Oh, I have now I'm trying to remember what I've.

1:29:00Denton Webb and Welcome Home Roxy Carmichael. No, I don't think so.

1:29:07You know, it would it would it wouldn't be in a Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain in Gettysburg. after the war. You know, we shot Gettysburg and then Gods and Generals, which was actually before Gettysburg, shot it out of order. Yeah, maybe. You know, see the third act of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain's life. Maybe. You'd want to go back to that time period again and have to, like, you know, dirt it up. Those clothes did not look comfortable. I mean, I know, like, costuming, they definitely fluff it up. But, I mean, those are like, you're dressing like a Hasidic Jew. It's probably hot out there. You're wearing, like, thick.

1:29:53It was Pennsylvania, 90 degrees, 90 % humidity, and we were 100 % wool. Yeah. Yeah. And we all had, you know, fake beards and mustaches that kept peeling off.

1:30:10You're like, all right, it's a breakout here. We're going to put down my musket. Can I take off this 80 pounds of jacket? There was, you know, we had like the Battle of Little Round Top was, you know, we kind of reenacted that. And the Confederates kept coming up the hill and up the hill. And you've got a lot of these reenactors, these guys that have drove across the country to be in this movie. and they're living in tents and they're pretending it's the 1860s for four straight weeks. You know, you're in your trailer, you come out and here they are and they got their muskets and they just want to be transported back.

1:30:56You know, they're so into it. They made the movie better because you could run the camera across their faces and they were into it, you know. and after a take or two of the confederates coming up the uh assistant director had to get on the megaphone and say all right guys um some of you seem to be putting some kind of something in your muskets they're paper wads there's something we've got to stop doing that because they actually the uh confederate actors are feeling feeling the uh pelt being pelted uh remember this is just a movie you know they have to get the guys to stop you know kind of tap tap tap but boom you know oh oh for god i got that that's hilarious they were they were that into it they were that into it but that's that's so groovy though man i mean like the people that will be better yeah i mean you want everybody to be on board and be excited.

1:31:57And like, you get real people that are, that's, this is their, this is their gig. They love doing the reenactments. You know, it's better than just getting a bunch of guys from central casting and just throwing shit on them. You know what I mean? Dude, big ups to, to the director. Who is that? The Ron Maxwell, man. He's in the producers. That's, it's great. I remember seeing that. All right. Our house is a very, very, very fine house. Honky donkey. This song is written, uh, not just amongst, uh, breakups, but also tragedy. like I mentioned. Yeah, really heavy. Graham Nash and Joanie had just broke up.

1:32:29So he writes a song about domestic bliss. And David, real tragic, man, mourning the loss of Christine. I want to make sure I get this right. Christine Hinton, who gets into a car accident. I think she's on the way to the vet and the cat jumps on her lap and it causes her to drive off the road or crash into something, but she passes away. There is domestic bliss on the surface, but there is this absolute tragedy. You know, I don't know if I like this song on this record because it's, it's, I don't want to call it cheesy. I, cause it's not a cheesy song. It's a beautiful song. And over the years, I think I've, I, you know, when I was younger, I might've made fun of it as I've gotten older, you know, it's, I think it's, it's changed my opinion, but fitting it on the record.

1:33:23I just like this and you know it's more of a teach your children but thoughts i don't want to sit here and say it's bad it's not a bad song i mean it's a good song but your thoughts my wife kathleen does a sing-along to raise some money for diabetes every summer and that's one of the songs they sing along it's an easy song to sing along with it's again it's positive it's it's at least you know to those who are just singing it not really worried about what was going on when they wrote it But, you know, it's pretty. And Graham did a great job of writing songs like that. And it juxtaposes well with Helpless and, you know, later on with, you know, when Neil was, you know, coming out with Southern Man and Ohio and all of that.

1:34:11I mean, it's to go from one side to the other is, you know, I give him credit for that. That's a lot. From a songwriting standpoint, that's a good range. It is. And speaking of range and starting at a certain spot, your second movie is Terms of Endearment. And in the movie, you're not playing the best character. You're playing Deb's husband, who cheats on her. And then ultimately, she passes. But what was that like for your second movie? Because you're up there with Jack and Shirley and Debbie. I'm acting like I know her. Deborah, I'm sorry. You're playing this shitty guy. How hard was that for you as your second film to play with three powerhouses, especially Shirley MacLaine and Jack?

1:34:55I mean. It was going to, it was like having a seat in a master's class. I bet. Not just Shirley and Deborah, but Jack. I was 28 years old and I just kept my mouth shut. And I just, I would go to the set when I wasn't supposed to be working, just so I could watch Jack, watch Shirley, watch Deborah. You know, I learned a lot on that movie. I was off-Broadway. Next thing I know, I'm with those three people. So that was, you know, just hold up your end. And the character was so unlikable that nobody wanted to do it. No star, young star with a name at that time wanted to do it. But, you know, I mean, you cheat on Deborah Winger and then she dies.

1:35:47You know, come on. Pass. You know.

1:35:53I was thrilled to get it. I was thrilled to get it. I learned a lot. I learned a lot. Did they make you comfortable the way that you make younger actors comfortable being, you know, the way? Did you learn maybe that from them? I know you said your father also implied that in you. But, you know, were they giving as well? Yeah, Deborah did. She was great with me. She knew I was, you know, a babe in the woods. And she had just come off of the success of Officer and a Gentleman. Yeah. So she was the Julia Roberts of her time at that moment. And she didn't have to be nice to me about anything, and she was.

1:36:33She really, you know, I felt fine, you know, on the set with her. You know, Shirley was terrific, but she and Deborah were kind of at each other, and so I stayed out of that. And then Jack showed up, and I really didn't have any scenes with Jack, and I didn't, you know, annoy him by sitting next to him on the set. You know, I just watched. I watched. Jim Brooks brought me. I still don't see dailies to this day, but Jim Brooks asked me if I wanted to see some dailies of a scene that I wasn't in. I said, yes. So he showed me the scene between Jack and Shirley in the kitchen. It was a two shot of the two of them.

1:37:23And Jim or Jack goes into the, I'm 100, I'm one of 106 fucking astronauts. You know, it's that speech. and he did about five takes and this was this is back when and maybe it still is but back when films you could kind of rehearse on film kind of learn the lines as you go get used to it find some choices work off each other and then about take six he took off really good great here comes take seven again same just different here's eight where he's even angrier here's nine where he undercuts it and he goes underneath. And then here's 10 where he does something completely different from the others.

1:38:08And between six through 10, Jim Brooks turned around when that was the end of the takes, Jim turned to me and said, which one do I use? You know, and you watch Jack give the editor options and give him options too, that he was chasing impulses. and Meryl does this you know that that's where I learned that it wasn't about with theater where you rehearse for seven weeks and then you kind of lock it and that's what you do from the first show on it moves around but you're supposed to kind of lock it this is the opposite of that you're chasing whatever you're feeling at this moment and if it doesn't work it's just take number seven and you, you know, delete it.

1:38:52But to watch him kind of just trust his instincts and give Brooks options and then let him figure it out in the editing room is it was a different experience than doing the same thing for six straight takes, which is a way to control your performance where the director only has that. Well, he only did it the one way, so I guess we got to go with that. but Jack was was trusted Jim Brooks enough to give it to him different ways and then so that Jim could could work with it not only what Jim had written but Jack's you know what Jack took from it and was able to roll with it you know that's where the that's where film is kind of a lot of fun if that's where the magic happens and you know you only have to make it happen for the first time once yeah yeah you gotta make it look like it's happening for the first time and it's show number 312 well i went to see my my buddies were in uh like bob odenkirk and and burr and uh uh oh my god i can't think of his name the guy from spinal tap um uh we're in uh

1:40:10Michael McKean. We're in Glenbury Glen Ross and I went about five different times and it was cool seeing it was some shows it was funnier some shows it was darker and some shows it was you know it was it was a little bit of both but to see the choices that the actors made you know in that moment because sometimes Bob was even funny was was Mr. Show Bob and David and sometimes you know Burr you know Burr was always angry the whole time which was great but it really it really was this this really cool dance and and going off of what you said about about jack i mean there's that great matt damon story about the departed talking to him where he's like you know and he's like you know i wouldn't have lasted so long if i wasn't a good writer and it's like you know there was a scene where he shoots the girl and he's like but if you cut right there you know but if you keep going and then i in grab this and then but if you cut right you could cut right there but if you keep going and let the camera roll and this lets him play around and i think you know you know I know that might have been the first time that he was working with uh James L Brooks but something like as good as it gets where Jim uh and and Jack are just I think at their best I mean it's just such a powerful performance and the writing and the story you know I I wonder just like just how much you know they're they're just enjoying what you know he's being given to say and then how much Jack who seems like he just really is is so good at at what he does and especially from from working with so many great directors over the years that trust him and you know it's it's it's great you get you've worked with so many great people that you know you've been able to really see like just the progression between you know you know what bad acting is you know what good acting is and you know what being the character is and I think someone like jack or christopher walken and meryl streep those people and yourself it's like you guys live in your characters and you and you you understand it you know what your character wants and once you know that then you can have fun you know and that's that's the beauty of it the other thing that i learned especially on that movie and from someone as revered as jack is that it's because there's no rehearsal for film, it's guesswork.

1:42:24So this is your best guess as to what you think the scene is from this character's point of view. And maybe you know, or maybe you don't know. And so, you know, Jack from the get-go was kind of going, what do you think if I do this or I do that? And Brooks, who's smart, brilliant, yeah, try it. Because you never know. You get into editing and you're going to wish you had that one where he wasn't as angry. You're going to wish you had that one where he said, can I try it? I remember Jim said to Jack, he goes, yeah, great. I have an idea. It's kind of out on a limb. And Jack said, I love going out on limbs.

1:43:12I get in trouble out there. and I just risk it risk it and that's different than the theater the theater is that's inside the rehearsal room and then you know they go no don't do that come over here and maybe you find a way to you know do the similar thing but it's you know it's weeks ago this is on the day right now roll it boom hit it give it to them now they have it and now months later when they're in editing room, they've got options because I learned that it's because it's guesswork, you don't know for sure whether this is the only way to do this speech or the scene. You know, you, you know, if you're moving on TV and it's one, two, three takes, got to move the cameras, then you got to make some choices and stick to them and that's it.

1:44:07But, um, if you give yourself some options uh because that's that's where you write the final draft of the movie is in the editing yeah i did two indies where i wrote and directed and acted in them and that's that's where i learned that where i'm i'm going okay the scene doesn't work is there i got is there a take where i didn't do what you know and that's where you write the final draft and yeah brooks knew that and Jack knew that. And so let me give you a couple other options in the event that you need them. Yeah. I love that. Not to get too off topic, but I mentioned Christopher Walken. There's that, when he did Catch Me If You Can and Spielberg being interviewed and he's just doing this thing, talking to Leo.

1:44:54And he does this scene three different ways. He does it straight. He does it a little bit more intense. And then the last one, he starts crying or getting choked up. And it's like Spielberg's just blown away. He's like, I never even would have thought of that. He's giving this speech about like, you know, I think it was either being in the military or something, but it was just like, I love that choice. And it's like, that's so fun just to be able to give the director and wow them where they don't even think that, wow, I didn't even think of trying it that way. It's, you know. It's the talent like Walken does to do that, to give it to him three different ways instead of arguing about the only way my character would do this is X.

1:45:35Yeah. Give it to him three different ways. He's Steven Spielberg. He's probably going to make you look good. Yeah. You know, the one that works for the story, which is a whole other thing. Yeah. Is the choice you're making serving the story? Probably to bring it back a little bit like the solo that you're doing in almost cut your hair, cut my hair. Does it serve the song or is it, you just show off yeah totally something that was that doesn't really fit it somehow and you don't quite know why but it just doesn't and and again when i saw crosby stilson nash and young in chicago and when i saw neil do those single note things way up high it for whatever reason it it was exactly what it needed to be and i completely got it yeah um talking about not touching something we're going to mention it but for timing I want to move on because I want to get to Country Girl because I like that question more but for it's 4 and 20 that was the song that Stills did by himself when he brought it to the band they said it's perfect do not touch it everything is great I want to if you have any thoughts on that you can or on 4 and 20 you can mention but I want to ask you the question for Country Girl what are your thoughts on 4 and 20 is there harmony on that I think so let me take a look at the statistics I'm pretty sure that Crosby and Nassim Harmony parts they planned to at least and then they were refused actually again it's completely different from anything else it's a still song it's as still as a song as it can be a good song is a song that can be sung with just an acoustic guitar and if it holds up it's maybe even a great song you know that whole trope but it's different from country girl and all the other stuff and carry on and all the other stuff they're doing which is at times of those harmonies and the operatic kind of feel and to some of those other songs here comes four and 20 which is just so naked that it jumps out it's the same way helpless jumps up yeah just different reasons with with country girl though this one's the neil young song and this is made up of two different songs that he had earlier written for Buffalo Springfield called Whiskey Boot Hill, which he had done as an instrumental string quartet arrangement on his debut record, and Down, Down, Down, which wouldn't be released until years later on a box set.

1:48:11He added those to a third section that he was calling Country Girl, in quotations, I think you're pretty. Overall, it's a very densely orchestrated and mournful waltz. Yeah, I was saying, it's like they already had a suite with Sweet Judy Blue Eyes, so this is kind of like them bringing it back to that. It brings us into a bar where stars are drinking, where people are flirting with the waitress. The third section simply yearns for a country girl to allow him to be her country man and presumably take her own, take her away from the city. I really liked this one. I, you know, I'm not saying I dislike the final song on the record, but I really, if they would have ended the record with Country Girl, I wouldn't have been upset.

1:48:50And I'm not taking anything away from Everybody I Love You. It's a good song, but it's just, we were, this was one that we were thinking of skipping. Your thoughts on Country Girl? yeah everybody i love you sounds like let's let's give it a happy ending yeah very but where country girl is you know it sounds like neil wanted to get out of la you know yeah no that's one of my favorites on the whole album it really is arrangement and the where are they going now with with that whole song country girl my question was going to be but you answered it basically about if you ever wanted to do like a Harrison Ford and just go to Montana but I feel like we already kind of mentioned that so I wanted to ask you this about it let me pull up where's the notes right there um you know you're a musician and speaking of this song being three different pieces like like how much of of being a musician do you bring into acting like like uh you it's I think it's easier to memorize because of music and the rhythm.

1:49:55There's a rhythm to playing music. And same thing with memorizing or even doing, you know, dialogue. You find the rhythm to the sentence that he wrote or she wrote. And if you don't have a sense of rhythm a musical sense i i it can get harder sure i i think i i've worked with some people who didn't and they were just slower to to get the lines down and so and not to say that you have to have a musical background in order to be a good actor. You don't, but it's helped me. And I think it has to do with finding the rhythm of the dialogue, which is similar to finding the rhythm of, you know, the song, the chords, the lyrics, the melody.

1:50:51I'm assuming certain, certain like writers, like we talked about Sorkin finding that melody probably was like, oh yeah, like I know this groove immediately. Like he's written the groove for you, but then other people, you probably have to go, okay, Like, you know, this is, this is a little different. Maybe, maybe I'm really, it's going to have to wait until I get in there with them and, and, and figure it out with the other actor. Right. Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. It's usually again, when it's a single singular voice that you can hear it. It's like hearing a melody. Yeah. Richard Schiff, who was on West Wing, he came to see Mockingbird and I told him that all those West Wing guys were great I went to school on those guys before I did Newsroom and I said to him and doing Sorkin is like music he goes no no it's melody there's a melody to the dialogue that he writes and he was right it was more specific man this is awesome All right, final song.

1:52:01Let's get you out of here, dude. Last song. Thank you for all the time, dude. This has been such a gift to me, to Jeremiah, and to all the listeners. Oh, good. Please, please come back. Final song on the record, Everybody, I Love You. Breezy, it's a soulful rocker. It's the only writing collaboration on the record, which is by Stills and Young. We already kind of mentioned it. And I feel like, you know, from everything we've talked about, like, this is a good way to kind of leave it. where the opening message of Carrying On, this really leaves a record that has a real sense of struggle and poignancy, both in the subtext, in the actual material, on a note of compassion and good spirits.

1:52:44Not to be morbid, but with so many losses recently, especially some of the great musicians like Sly Stone and Brian Wilson And then, of course, Ozzy, which, you know, just to be able to go out the way that he did and tell the world how much he loves him and raise all this money right before he dies. What message of love and compassion would you like to leave with this world? I don't mean to be so heavy. there's a lot of darkness and a lot of fear and a lot of um craziness going on that no one seems to understand or how to deal with and and i you know as as as an older actor who's you know a celebrity who you know nobody wants to hear from us anymore okay but you try to find something good to do every day for yourself or for someone else it's it's pollyanna but it's you know until we get you know i hope straightened out about being able to deal with each other again instead of hating each other so much um you know find something good to do for yourself or for somebody else that's that's a start that you can do can you change the world probably not but can you do that every day.

1:54:11Yeah. Yeah. And so that's kind of all I'm doing at this point. You're doing a great job of it, man. And I, you know, I love that you brought up your dad and what he taught you. And when you have someone like that in your life that you can, that shows you how to be empathetic and love your brother and help people. I mean, even on the smallest scale of you helping actors, I mean, that makes me just so happy to know that there are actors that I look at that are extremely successful that, you know, like that you put up on, I don't want to say, you know, on a pedestal, but you're like, oh man, they're, they might be dicks or assholes.

1:54:43And a lot of them that I've met have been very, very sweet human beings. Some of them have been assholes, but it could just be that moment of, you never know what they're dealing with in their day. But, you know, to be able to talk to you and, and, you know, hear your story and especially what you said about your father, man, it's like, you really had someone very beautiful to be able to like to teach you about things and and i think that's is why you know even just you sitting down and speaking for an hour and 40 minutes with us it's like you didn't have to do this so this has been incredible and i really appreciate for the time and and the message and the honesty dude and you know and please do gettysburg too please please do it man i want to know either that or dumb and dumber three where you know as jim said they'll call it gum and gummer you know even giving us a second one was like really i mean dude it was it was a swan song it was beautiful and it's like it really was and it's like it's dude it's like spinal tap doing another spinal tap it's like we the people that love it need it and and it's special and and the things that you've done whether it's the speech in the newsroom or or i remember seeing an arachnophobia on opening night all dude it's just like i said good night good luck squid and the whale that There was two of my favorite movies that summer, and it's just everything you keep doing, I'll keep watching.

1:56:03And please come back on, man. This was so much fun. I can't thank you enough. I enjoyed it, guys. Thank you. So we ask everybody these questions. We'll make them quick. But I got a new one I'm going to throw in. First question is favorite song on the record? Country Girl. Nice. What do you skip over? Is there anything you dislike? On this album? Yeah. Our House. Nice. Yeah, dude. Because it's the hit. I always say sometimes you hear the hit too much. All right. I'm not going to filter this one. Can you fuck to this record? Sure. Yeah, sure. The rhythms change. Yeah. It's all over the place. You know what I mean?

1:56:49Teach your children why you're fucking is not going to be. She's like, no, listen. I know it's a first date, but, you know, just ignore this. We'll skip this track. We'll skip this track. This is the one I'm going to throw in. Out of the four members of Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, rank them in how much you love them. Starting at the lead, you can go top to bottom. You tell us which way you're going. Stills, Neal, Crosby, Nash. I love them all, but that's the order. That's the order. What would be your elevator pitch to get someone to listen to this record that's never listened to it? How do you sum this record up?

1:57:29remember the beach boys remember the beatles and all those harmonies listen to this perfect yeah i can't i can't i can't you know i think you said it perfectly because i was going to mention that earlier when you were talking about some of the the artists that you like like my dad loved the four freshmen he loved those vocal groups and um you know as i've gotten older like falling in love with the Beach Boys, falling in love with the harmonies of the Beatles, even doing, I was, I just did Steely Dan Asia last night and hearing Michael McDonald was stacked harmonies. There's something about harmonies and there's something very beautiful about Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young.

1:58:08I don't know if anybody, maybe next to the Beach Boys have done it better. And, and I am, you know, I don't know if we have any, I don't think we have any other records on after this but you know to be able to go in order and and know what they put through this record i think it's like it's four guys you know taking a break from being solo and and making in a sense an individual solo record and then keep carrying on and uh yeah it's an extension of when you know the story of them being at mama cass's house and laurel daniel yeah and the three of them crossy residuals and nash were singing something and then nash says play it again Play it again And then it happened Everybody in the room heard it And so Deja Vu is like And this is like A professional recording of that Night in Laurel Canyon That's so rad Jeff thank you so much for coming on Buddy please come back I know we've got some more Bruce You know which is one of our most Fought after artists but I would love To have you back for anything we still got another 147 episodes left.

1:59:18So your call, man. And, and, uh, and this was just a gift to all of us. So thank you, brother. All right. Thank you. Appreciate it guys. What'd I tell you? What'd I tell you? A gift from Emily, the one and only Jeff Daniels, follow him on Instagram at Jeff Daniels official and on Facebook at Jeff Daniels music and go to jeffdaniels.com for all things, Jeff, go to his website, make sure you check out his music upcoming tour dates. He's going to be in Michigan. Go see his shows. He's incredible. Now, we just listened to 1970s Deja Vu by Crossy Stills, Nash & Young for a new music pick this week, brought to you in part by DistroKid.

1:59:50Down I Go by the man himself, Jeff Daniels. You can find links to the music on our website, the500podcast.com. And if you are in a band or are directly influenced by one of these albums or artists and you want your music featured on the 500 website, send your song to 500podcasts at gmail.com. Make sure you put the album and artist that influenced you in the subject line. Next week is number 146 with Jefferson Airplane Surrealistic. I can't even say this. Surrealistic Pilla. Pilla. It's my Pilla from 67. Great record. It's got White Rabbit. It's got someone to love. It's got everything you need.

2:00:23It's a fun record and it's a good ep. Do your homework. We'll see you then. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'm right. Sometimes I'm rolling Sometimes I'm going Sometimes I'm going For I know Down I go

2:01:10Sometimes I'm good Sometimes I'm bad Sometimes I'm hanging on To things I never had Sometimes I laugh Sometimes I cry Sometimes I'm true Sometimes I'm alive For I know Down I go

2:02:00Sometimes I win Sometimes I lose Sometimes I hear myself Singing me the blues For I know Down I go

2:02:27guitar solo

2:02:52Keeping it policing For the Fleece Nation On the 500 The 500

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2:03:51Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. Subject to credit approval, terms apply. The more you learn about your favorite artists, the more you want to know. Claude helps you keep digging, finding new threads and rabbit holes to explore. Whether it's discovering deeper meaning behind a detail in an interview or figuring out the influence behind an artist's particular era. Claude thinks with you to find the next clue. If you can't get enough of the stories behind your favorite music and artists, Claude will help you discover new layers you didn't know existed. Try Claude for free at claude.ai slash brokenrecord.

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