Tinashe

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2:06Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. Tina Shea's changing what a pop music career can look like. Back in 2014, her song Two On featuring Schoolboy Q became a huge hit. It was her very first single from her very first album and seemed like a clear indication that she was poised for more chart success. Instead, something maybe more interesting happened. Instead of dominating the pop market, she released projects that missed the Billboard chart, but gained her an incredibly strong and loyal fan base. She even left her label in 2019 to go independent and brought her fans along with her.

2:48And now, 10 years later, has her second Billboard hit with the viral sensation, Nasty. Nasty comes from her new album, Quantum Baby, the second part in a trilogy of albums that, to my ears, sounds like her best work yet. I spoke to Tina Shea from Amazon Studio 126 about these trio of albums, including her big summer hit, and the time she spent weeks filming The Polar Express with Tom Hanks. This is Broken Record, liner notes for the digital age. I'm Justin Richman. Here's my conversation with Tina Shea. Yo, congratulations on everything, I guess. This is crazy. I know. I'm so excited. We kind of set this up a while ago, I want to say, before I knew the song was going to do what it did.

3:40And it's like, you've been doing incredible work for so long. Thank you. It's incredible to see the payoff. Yeah. It feels good. I'm having fun. Yeah. Yeah. What was, maybe we can just start with Nasty. Yeah, sure. i guess or maybe we'll just start with the new part two in general like how were you part one and part two yeah of uh baby angel baby angel i didn't want to mispronounce it baby angel baby angel uh baby angel like how did you kind of make both at the same time yeah yeah well i initially went in with the intention of making a full-length project but breaking it up into parts to give people enough time to really chew on each piece of material.

4:28I think, you know, we live in this day and age that's very quick to consume. And I think as an artist, you know, you spend so much time working on the songs and curating them so perfectly and listening to them over and over and over again. There's something kind of sad every time you release like a full length project and you're like, well, what about this track and this track and this track? You know, like people get caught up. Obviously the singles get their light, they get their shine, they get their little focus track moment or a music video or something but there's usually so many other songs on a record that you want to like celebrate or you know let them have their flowers so i thought it would be smart to break it up into three different parts seven songs each so i initially started working on just like a huge batch yeah so you wanted people to be able to digest yeah something yeah just each individual batch yeah chunk so then how many how many songs did you wind up recording um a lot every project i end up recording a lot of material usually so i don't know there's not really like a set number but i would say it was getting into like the i would say 50 i would say 50 50 records maybe wow but those aren't all like fully fleshed out ideas they're usually like i'll start a song make a verse hook call that a song you know yeah decide if I'm fucking with it, if I want to change it.

5:51Well, take me to the inception of stuff. So like, how do you work with it? Like there's some great producers on here. Obviously, Nasty's Ricky Reed, but you got no such thing. Yeah, he's amazing. He has some incredible cuts on part two. Yeah, and he produced Talks to Me Nice on part one. So I feel like that's like a great connection and also kind of shows how the cohesion between the first project, the second project, and also the evolution from the first project to the second project, you know, because they're both the same but you know they're different they have their own personalities they have their own feels for sure so how do you um how do you like lock in with the producer and kind of like tell me the process of like kind of who starts like are you are you going to listen through listen for some for tracks listen for yeah and then i mean it kind of depends on who i'm working with or kind of the mood of the day um a lot of times we'll start from scratch depending on the producer if they're more comfortable with like playing beats that they've kind of made then And like, that's cool, too, because I will definitely take an idea, start something and then kind of go back in and like make tweaks and make edits that way.

6:55But I also love starting from scratch if people are down for that. So, you know, just kind of starting usually with like a BPM, a tempo, something that feels inspiring, something I want to dance to, something that feels different and unique as well. That's always something in that moment feels. Yeah. Yeah. It feels right. It feels inspiring. Is there something off part two that started that way? it's kind of like it was a la carte to you um yeah I mean I feel like every record was honestly thinking back on it Nasty definitely Red Flags yeah so many all of them okay Getting No Sleep he didn't cook that one in the room though that was more like we had a session the first day I told him what I wanted he said I'll come back with something tomorrow so it was still like it was still special you know specially made tailored right for you Yeah, Taylor made for you.

7:47Yeah, exactly. But just spend a lot more time on it. Given you have so many great deep cuts on an album, and that was kind of the impetus for maybe breaking these up a bit. How do you go about deciding once you have a set of songs what the single is going to be? Yeah. The single, I may actually get some feedback on the single because I do want to hear what other people are into, but not necessarily the songs on the album itself. Like I'll definitely refer to which ones I'm looking back on and constantly playing to see which songs are like the keepers. But sometimes the singles is just like playing it for a few people and you can tell.

8:29Sometimes it's the one that sparks the idea for a music video. I'm like, oh, I could do this really cool concept. I'd love to give this a moment. Sometimes it's just highlighting a record that I feel like would otherwise be just lost in the shuffle. there's not like a huge rhyme or reason behind it. But there are some songs at the end of the day you'll set aside as being like, maybe you have a hunch, these could or would be interesting too. Yeah, just because people are usually excited about it. People in the studio. Yeah. Or hearing you play things in your life or whatnot. Anything you can point to as to why you feel like Nasty's doing what it's doing?

9:08I mean, I think a lot of things, probably. I think the fact that the song is very catchy. It's easy to get in your head. You can hear it one time, you kind of remember it, or you kind of know what it's about. I think the simplicity of it lends itself to being a hit song. I think it doesn't really sound like too much other stuff on the radio right now, or in the universe right now. I think it has its own vibe with the minor chord section going into like the major chord hook so i think that stands out in a way i think it's memeable you know it's got these like funny funny lines that are like is somebody gonna match my freak or i have a nasty girl you know that people are just finding these little memeable moments and i also just think like time and place like you know just sometimes the universe is just like the perfect storm of everything coming together yeah everything else that's out right now where i'm at in my career the fact that it's summer you know i think there's just so many things that go into it the um the the lines part about the meme of a line even like you deliver it is really like your delivery on that yeah it's so interesting even like um um i need somebody with a good technique it's just it makes you it makes you feel something different you know i mean like you're like oh it's just like there's a you could tell that there was really um almost sounds like uh i mean in a way it's almost like maybe the way like an actor reads lines like you kind of treated them i don't know that you did that but yeah as a listener yeah it's like wow you really no there was definitely a purposefulness of the approach to the verse like how i said it i really wanted it to be in like a conversational part of my voice and so it felt very in your face and really like I was just talking to you and not like I was trying too hard to like perform it or sing it or do it in my singing voice or any particular voice because sometimes it's easy to do that too you know like perform it in like a sexier tone or like you can do so many different ways to make it interesting if you will but I really wanted it to be like in a talky conversational kind of tone is that like an intention you'll set out in the studio and then like I guess how do you get vocal feedback yeah i also don't really get vocal feedback i usually it's just me and my engineer recording everything and yeah just doing whatever feels right i actually don't like vocal feedback every time there's like a vocal producer in the room i'm like this is so annoying let me sing it how i want to sing it the initial reason was because i'd recorded it as a freestyle and i had that tone so listening back to the freestyle that I'd recorded I was like that sounds good I tried to mimic it and it didn't come across that same way so I was very specific in trying to like mimic it the way that I just was saying it when I was messing around wait so what part of it exactly was the freestyle the whole I've been a nasty girl nasty and is somebody gonna match my freak is somebody gonna match my freak is somebody gonna match my nasty The whole thing.

12:22The uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. The whole thing. I have it in my computer on photo booth. Wait, is that what you... It wasn't like a voicemail? You hopped on photo booth. Yeah, because I was driving in my car and the music was playing off my phone. So I had to record myself. So I had my laptop and the passenger seat, I like open it up. Very safe. Record. I wasn't filming myself. It was just filming the audio. And then, yeah. how much is that a part of your your process freestyling yeah i feel like that gives me the best product so i always try to be very purposeful about following my instinct and making sure that i record my initial instinct on a beat that's really important too um because a lot of times i just think that that's your best idea for some reason just is so you recording things going back to hear what the initial like yeah what really spoke to you initially yeah and then yeah not exaggerating but but building on yeah yeah and a lot of times either there will be words already like with nasty there were actual words tangible words but sometimes it's just melodies sometimes it's gibberish sometimes it's a word here and there mumbo jumbo and you kind of have to like excavate the lyrics but yeah i think that's usually how i write um nearly every song wow that's really cool yeah you just kind of felt like yeah well i really love that like west coast kind of chilled but still makes you want to dance it's that pocket that like everyone wants to bob their head yeah everyone could kind of catch that beat it's not too up it's not too slow um yeah and i've been djing a lot lately and there's always like a lot of songs in that like 99 100 bpm that i love to play i don't know because i grew up on the west coast but it's like sweet spot what are the what are those tracks i don't know like anything like tie dollar sign or like yg you know like that it's giving that laid back effortless bop energy and wanting to kind of start with that pocket okay dope um when did you officially move to california like how old were you seven you were seven yeah did it feel um how was coming out here like like music because you're obviously from a young age plugged into the arts plugged into music digesting things that you're taking in how did how did moving here change the way you you listened to things and felt things and what you wanted to do.

14:48I feel like the West Coast has such a specific style of just culture and sound, whether it be like how the culture of creating music, you know, being in that culture from a really young age, being in the studios, you know, seeing how songs were made, you know, how producers worked, you know, just the culture of chilling in LA and the laid backness of it all. And I think that has a lot to do with like approach, subject matter, BPM, style, just different things that I tend to like, you know, growing up here has a very clear vibe, in my opinion. Yeah, it's hard to explain, I think, to people that don't grow up here, too.

15:32It's like and there is a certain cadence and a swing or rhythm, I guess, a rhythm to life here. that I guess is maybe like you could explain to New Yorker because they also have a rhythm that they're plugged into for sure that they feel very much and feel as superior maybe sometimes but I do think like you know obviously the legacy of kind of like that west coast swing that goes into like a YG my crazy life and all these other cuts like I love and now that you're saying that I can kind of hear that because you do have a unique style yeah thank you and it feels like because uh two on was your first single yeah turned out to be a big yeah definitely and it feels like you kind of came fully formed yeah well it had that pocket too so i feel like that's another reference point always like going back to being like how do we you know that there was some magic in that what was that you know what set that song apart.

16:32And I think that part of it is that identity, having that kind of its own identity, its own vibe, its own cadence. And yeah, I don't know. I just remember like growing up and going to dances, you know, just being around at the house parties and stuff like that. I think it's just very visceral and you want to be a part of it and you want to just like have that energy. So going into my entire career, I kind of always had in the back of my head, like every project has a couple of those little tracks sprinkled in from back to my first mixtape. I have a record on there called Chainless. That's the super West Coast, just like we shot it on Fairfax, shot the music video.

17:08It's just kind of funny to see how everything comes very full circle. Yeah, yeah. You've stayed based here your whole career too, right? Yeah, yeah. How do you... I'm just thinking you shot your very first video from your mixtape on Fairfax. Yeah. You're at a very different stage in your career and life at this point today. Yeah, I was just driving down. Where you're just driving down. Yeah. In traffic in the exact same location where I shot that video. Like, wow. I'm just tripping about how you must experience the city so differently. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's amazing. I think the evolution and the journey is all these little moments along the way really make it so much more meaningful and impactful to be where I am now and to kind of see firsthand.

17:52You can compare very easily like the then and now. And I think that that makes it really sweet. Yeah, absolutely. We'll be right back with more from a conversation with Tina Shea.

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21:33Our listeners get 10 % off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash broken. That's BetterHelp.com slash broken. We're back with Tina Shea. I want to talk a bit about your journey to being like an independent artist. Yeah. Or your journey since becoming an independent artist. It's interesting that you seem to kind of be ahead of the curve a bit on that. I don't know. I don't know. It's the Aquarius in me. Like we're always trying to move ahead of the curve, I guess. Always trying to see around corners and see what's going to happen. Yeah, I was just trying to make your own path, you know. carve your own way because it's like you left your label in 2019 yeah and so uh five years later it seems to be like like i just saw today neo is going independent really yeah wow like it this is a real um sort of time a real pivotal like kind of like a boiling point in music where artists are realizing what they can do for themselves and you you got like a five-year yeah head start on it super cool can you take me through the decision to go independent yeah i think for me it the thing about the independent route that i you know try to emphasize or keep in mind is that i do think i wouldn't necessarily write out the gate be like everyone should be independent i think it's like a very case-by-case basis i feel like i had a very lucky perfect storm of like having the experience with the major label that kind of sowed a lot of seeds for me and then like you know establishing a fan base that was very dedicated and like super loyal so that when I was able to make that step they were able to go with me and follow me and still continue to support me because I do think the independent grind is super difficult and so I I think it's it's more what what's really important is being able to tailor your career specifically for like what works for you because the reason I went into bed personally was because I just like mentally was not enjoying being in the place where I couldn't make all of the creative financial you know timing decisions when it came to my music and I think it works for some people you know um you know it's a complicated relationship sure yeah but I mean like it must have been because you know like there's a world it must not have even been label specific or you could tell me if it was because it's like, I'm sure you could have just like found a different relationship that worked.

24:14You mean like a different record label? Different record label. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't interested in that at that point because I really wanted to, I guess, prove to myself that my decisions were still the right decisions. And I was very wary of adding more cooks to the kitchen, if you will. I think, you know, like when you're working with a bigger team, a bigger machine you start making little compromises here and there it's not necessarily like it's in your face and it's very cut and dry like i'm making the wrong decision it's you know you start listening to so many different opinions and there's a lot of outside noise and i think i really wanted to just eliminate all of that go back to my roots go back to making music in my house in my home and being the sole decider of like this is the one this is what i'm to do this what i want to put out and so yeah it was just really important for me at the time to make that decision to like fully embrace being by myself you know on a creative front yeah um you you had mentioned that it's like you know when you go independent there's not like some you know i mean there's kind of there's not some like predetermined path like you kind of have to tailor it to who you are as an artist and your taste.

25:30So what were some of those early conversations you were having amongst, you know, your team at that point about what, how you could position yourself to be successful independently? I mean, the biggest question mark is always like, how are we going to fund this? So it's, there's big ideas, but without, you know, a major label budget, you're constantly thinking about how how are we going to find the funds, get the funds, or, you know, like, make the funds, you know, like, you just have to figure it out, get very super smart about how you spread out your financial decisions, where you spend the money, how you spend the money, looking for like the tiniest ways to be able to cut corners to maximize the art itself.

26:12And I think for a couple years, that was definitely something that was a big focus was just trying to figure out how do we just keep it going, keep the art coming, keep the music videos coming with the budget that we've got. And did you feel like you had to almost step up the output in a sense? Of course, because you always have to continue to step up the output. I think just competing in this environment and also as the type of artist that I am, like I'm not brand new. So So I'm constantly trying to raise the bar creatively and with my own work. So, I mean, a lot of times when you have like crazier and crazier ideas, you know, it costs more and more money.

26:51So you're it's just something that you're constantly trying to figure out where how to negotiate that, like within your own mind, you know, as an artist. Obviously, you never want to compromise your art and you can't, but you have to figure out how to be crafty sometimes. Right. How did that then impact the art? Yeah, I think I enjoyed it because it was empowering in a sense. I mean, it was difficult, but it was empowering to know that all of the output was because of hard work and great relationships and, you know, just the strength, if you will. um so yeah i think everything that we did after going independent really led up to these moments that i'm having now it really paved the way because i was able to re-establish um i think how like my perception within the industry i think people respected the fact that i was making it on my own and that kind of changed i think how people perceived me yeah i could see that because you know like obviously when your first single is two on and it does what it does i mean i'm sure there must have been some sort of temptation to just sort of slot you into the machinery yeah but very clearly like you are a different kind of artist yeah well i i don't like being put in a specific box very much i tend to break and push against that so i i feel that initially there were a lot of labels whether it was just simple things like genre like i was very opposed to being labeled as like a particular genre and still to this day i don't feel that pressure as much anymore because i feel like people have an understanding of like the fact that i do genre hop and use a lot of inspiration from different things but i definitely feel like at the beginning just a very visceral reaction to be like no do not put me in that box right you know and they're trying to just sell you to a certain market yeah like it's so much more nuanced and complicated and layered and colorful than that yeah yeah um one of one of the things i noticed about like and it was so it's listening to um i haven't spent the last almost year with part one and now getting the chance to um preview part two um it's refreshing that there's no features yeah like it's nice just to hear you yeah thanks like straight up you like you know what i mean like And I feel like that's something that is, I don't know, it's not, we don't get a lot of these days.

29:35And I love that you're able to make decisions like that. Like it's just going to be you going to work on a song with the producer. And we're only going to hear from you because you, I mean, you have a real distinct point of view. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I love just having the work speak for itself. And I think that that's what these projects do, which I really love, is that they're simple. And the fact that it's all me, there's not as many like side quests and different things added to like add flavor or spice. You know, it's just it's simple and it's all me. So that's great. That's amazing.

30:12Do what kind of how do you so if you're coming from a system where there is it's more team. Yeah. Or there's this kind of larger decision making body. Yeah. And you kind of scale this way down. Yeah. When you record, say, 50 something songs. And you're thinking about, well, I like these. I want to make this into something. Who are you talking with to sort of figure out what the vibe is? What the move is. Yeah, like, are these good and how do you want to put them out, etc. I mean, I do have like a team that I trust, like people that are close to me that I trust, but I keep my circle super small.

30:52So I would say it's not that many people. And even within that team, I don't know, I think it's important to really not even ask that many people's opinions. Like, really not at all, like truly not at all, because I think that that just messes with your instinct. And I think a lot of the times at the end of the day, you know what you want to do. If you don't, you can ask, which is great. But you don't always have to ask. I don't know. It's not that many people. You got to keep it tight. Do you have any other artists that are kind of in your circle, people that you could hit up to be like on a creative decision level?

31:26Not really. Honestly, no. Really? No. Really? Yeah, no, not really. Oh, that's shocking. I mean, maybe I'm sure I could, but I haven't. that's really impressive because i mean the output's really good but i'm also very precious with my music like i don't really like the experience of sharing like i don't like sharing it with people i like sharing it with people i don't want to be a part of it once i've shared it with you like i i want to it's almost like i i don't want to hear your feedback i don't want to i don't want to consider what you thought of it or how you took it like the art speaks it is what it is the art was made for the purpose of expressing a certain feeling how you interpret it is your business in a sense and that goes for like my family friends like i don't like to watch people listen to my music or hear people hear it for the first time like i'd rather be totally separate from them be like here it is literally it's like yeah like enjoy it hate it whatever you do with it but at that point it's really not my business yeah yeah yeah i don't know That's a strong way to handle that.

32:37I've heard you say too in interviews that you don't even, when you're making music, consider like, whoa, this could be a hit. That's not an expectation that you put on your art. Yeah, because I feel like I did for a certain amount of time and it was detrimental to my creative process. I feel like it just changed how I would approach things. it's too formulaic in what way like it's too formulaic like it's too gameplayy it limits you in how you just like think about things like you're trying to make it fit a certain amount of bars or you know sound like we got to get to the hook first or you know we have to it has to be this certain you have to say the hook you have to say the word four times you know like there's all these like fake rules that people make up of like how to make a hit song and i think it's very limiting in terms of just like how you approach it i think that a better decision is to just make it however you want to make it and then if you want to edit it to something that feels more consumable or more hit like or whatever that's different or even just more to your liking or more to your liking which is what i tend to focus on like i just don't even bother trying to like make a hit i think that's fickle and also i consider like every song i make could be potentially a hit so i don't like to you know put that like hierarchy on them you know it's just so funny like i i'm just so bugged out because um i mean i was talking to someone before you got here like um needs to me yeah needs a great song sounds like just like like i'm thinking about i'm like um as great as nasty as i'm like it's good like why wasn't these as big i mean you never know you never it really goes to it really just illustrates the point you really never do You never know.

34:23You never know. So much is out of everyone's control. Yeah, so just make what you want to make and then let it happen. Does having nasty, which is kind of shaped me up to be a song of the summer, you know what I mean? It's going well. Does that impact the way you feel about your music or the way that you're thinking about your sort of career now that you are more in control of things? I mean, you have the thoughts. The thoughts creep in where you're like, now what? Where do we go next? What if? The what ifs. What happens next? What does this mean? Thoughts of like, does this mean that everything else I've ever done is not as valuable as this?

35:14There's so many different ways you can look at it. But at the end of the day, not really. I feel like I'm more focused on the fact that I'm just enjoying what's going on and like living in the moment, trying not to like let those intrusive thoughts in or really focus on any of that. I think that's where you mess up. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm not really trying to change anything about the process in terms of the art or what I would do next. Have you had what are the conversations you've had with with Ricky Reed who produced it? Yeah. Around it. we're just happy like it's it's fun every day just seeing all the way people are sharing it and all the different milestones that we're hitting it's just like a celebration yeah yeah it's gotta be huge i mean it's yeah it's like and i feel like for your fans too it's funny the your fans are super dedicated yeah and it almost seemed as if when you went independent they went into like overdrive like super like protective super um and like so for a while it was like the narrative was like that you were like underrated.

36:17Oh yeah, for sure. I was like, your fans were always in things. Like people would be like, oh, the best R &B vocalist of the 2010s. And they'd be like, why isn't Tinashe in this list? Why? Yeah. They mean well. No, of course they do. And it's like, dude, what a blessing to have like fans like that, that it got your back like that. And, but it's like, it's so, I don't know, just as a, as a, I'm a huge R &B fan. I feel like R &B doesn't get, and not to put you in a box, but I feel like R &B doesn't always get its due. No, it doesn't. I think that's why I had such an aversion to being in that box.

36:53It wasn't because I don't love R &B. It was because I know how push to the side R &B always gets. Yeah. It always feels like a side category or something that's like, yeah, R &B's cool. Yeah. It gets no... In terms of when you think about it, hip hop before that rock and roll. take up all the oxygen in the room. But every time that R &B has had its main moment, they just consider it pop. And I think that was my issue when I first got in the game because I'd be like, yeah, I make R &B. But to me, that's pop. I don't know. I grew up in the early 2000s. All of the pop songs were R &B songs. Yeah.

37:32That is a great point that every time R &B has a moment, it just gets called pop. Like Michael Jackson's... Or hip hop. It falls into other categories. so you know people just the borders are so loose in certain regards like what is it what is rmb at the end of the day really exactly but there's music that we call that i guess just for shorthand but the funny thing about it is like i feel like more than any other music it's always been relevant to our lives as people like totally everyone like has you know remembers their first dance or like their wedding song or like whatever whatever there's all these like landmark moments and our lives are kind of soundtracked.

38:11Totally. Bar and B. And it's always there. It's like, it's always selling. There's always these popular artists, but no one really is like, no one talks about it. Give R &B her flowers. It needs it. It needs it, you know? Yeah. After one more quick break, we'll be back with the rest of T-Nashe.

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