S3E1: Behind the Brand: How Toby Builds a Business Around Trust and Photography

0:00Welcome to Brand You, the ultimate personal branding podcast. I'm Kaz Grant and I'm Toby Lee. Together we're here to help demystify personal branding and to make it accessible and effective for everyone. Follow along as we guide you through creating your own personal branding journeys. So let's get started. Let's brand you.

0:25Hi everybody and welcome back to the brand new podcast proudly sponsored by Spark House. So I'm very excited for today's episode and it's the first in season three of the brand new podcast. So today we're going to be jumping into behind the brand and we're going to be looking at Toby's personal brand. So we're going to be sharing some juicy behind the scenes of what it takes for toby to create the personal brand that he does and to put himself out there you're in the spotlight i think i think the interesting bit for me with this is because i've just recently gone through a rebrand yeah new logo new website new look and feel to everything and i think what's nice is to kind of demonstrate for those that are listening and building their personal brand but it is like a constant journey it needs constant assessment of what's working what's not working and you just keep tweaking things so I think there's gonna be quite a lot to kind of dive into and break down I think yeah and that's exciting isn't it so what I guess started you off on thinking you needed a rebrand yeah so there were certainly challenges with um I built my website for years like I've always done my own thing god knows how many times and how many hours I've spent or waking up in the middle of the night going I've got an idea I'm going to go play with it now because I had it access to do so and I think I did an all right job up to a certain point but when it came to realising that actually my personal brand was really strong in terms of me going to networking me getting myself out there on social media and using LinkedIn and doing everything I physically could but my website wasn't bringing anything in like it didn't have the personality there or it didn't align with my personal brand or what it's like to meet me so it just wasn't really working for me it wasn't bringing anything in so that was the main challenge but yeah certainly from that if I was looking sort of holistically at my personal brand it was a case of going everything I put my efforts into is producing something but if I can't get to the network meeting because I'm busy with projects suddenly that that level of conversation or the amount of conversation I'm having drops down a little bit so it was trying to find a way of keeping all those plates spinning and what else needs reviewing and the website and that kind of overview bringing everything in line was the first part was it kind of scary because like you're so you've had that full control over like everything up until your business up until that point and now you've got to hand over yeah like a little bit of your baby to somebody else to have a rethink and it was that quite scary or i i can see how it could be scary of people but the reason it wasn't for me was I had full trust in the people I was working with so I was working with Matt and Eleanor at number 75 design and they're a Lincoln-based design and creative agency and they help brilliant businesses, sole traders, inject like personality into their branding so I knew that that was exactly what I needed and so they were the right guys for the job and having worked with them on sort of photo shoots and things in the past like I knew that they understood me massively and then therefore how to like put me forward at the front of everything so yeah it wasn't sort of scary for me but I can kind of see how some people would be like oh god I think I think it was more I was excited I have someone else input because every decision I make of my business is me you know looking at every possible option trying to weigh in which one the right one is time and time again so it's actually quite nice to go you know what just let me know what you come up with and uh and we'll go from there and yeah I'm really pleased with with where it's gone and that's all collaborative as well isn't it so it's not like they they then go oh this and that is it and that's what you're having so you could still you still got options to play around with it and tweak it which is quite cool and like you say I've seen so much work that they've done in the local and I do I love everything that they produce is great so there's that trust there already yeah but also that trust because of their personal brands as well and what they put out to the world yeah I mean Matt not so much but Eleanor definitely yeah shares so much of herself and things that she's doing and things that they're working on a product behind the scenes and again it kind of it puts you at ease straight away yeah working with them and they're such lovely people yes yeah so much fun yeah I think they've got a good way of sharing the way they work and like why they do things and I think if you're then you know a potential client looking to make a decision to go and work with them you've already seen that process and I think that's kind of something that I really tried to do with my social media and that is use it as an opportunity to go this is what a photo shoot looks like or here's me on a video shoot this is what it looks like to do this you know so that it's not too overwhelming it becomes something that you can talk about and and approach me about yeah you did one the other day that I really liked a video where it was like it was quite scary start and you were like stepping into a photography studio it's really scary yeah and then you're like no it's not guys go on and then you showed everybody again into your space into your world yeah and it's you talking and fiddling around with equipment and showing everything but again it's like it puts people at ease so much yes so good yeah and I think that's something like we can all be doing it's it's going to be different for every business and different depending what the industry you're in but you know we've talked previously about working out you know your target audience and what it is they need to know and if you start working back from there suddenly like content becomes quite easy and approachable um you know video video work is a is a huge part of my or video content I should say is a huge part of my brand now you know the people are resonating with and kind of know me for um to the point where I've had a few comments now where I've met people for the first time in person and they've like looked me up and down and gone you're tall than I thought you were I've had it twice now and I thought what an interesting remark like Because how are you supposed to know from a video how tall someone is?

7:05You know, you don't look at the telly and go, I bet they're a tall person. So it's really interesting when you say, like, when people meet you, then they're like, oh, my gosh, you're so much taller than in real life. Because, again, I've got comments like that before as well. When we're following people online and we're seeing people online all the time and we've got that kind of connection with them or we think we do, when you do meet them in person, there are subtle little differences that you can't quite, like, showcase on video. and it doesn't matter but it's just that like oh when you meet in person again it's like how it just builds that connection even stronger doesn't it and bring someone to life even more you can only do so much to bring it all to life online but actually having the online and then in person if you can it's just that cements everything yeah i think when we when we meet someone or come across someone so we've not physically met them but we'll come across them online your brain instantly makes an image on how you think they might speak how you think they might you know look if it's just a headshot we've already imagined what they're what they might look like standard next to and so any information you can put out of your personal brand is just filling in those that those gaps and making that picture clearer for people so that's why I always try and do video content where I can you know often I think I've got this lovely piece of value I should share I start typing a post and I think well hang on I'm missing an opportunity here I've got the cameras I can quickly you know hit record and actually share this value to the camera in a video and actually that's another opportunity to get my face in front of people you know and really create that feeling that that you know me and that you might have met me before and I think that certainly helps when I do go to networking meetings and people sort of come and approach me and because they've seen content and they've got that familiarity I think that's important isn't it yeah yeah yeah definitely opens up the doors to conversations in so many ways what I love about what you just said then as well is um that you don't it was almost like you don't overthink the stuff so you're not like again perfectly curating some of your personal branding content at the moment it's literally like you're in the studio you're putting some equipment away you're moving something you do you get an idea sparks up in your head and then you think oh yeah let me film quickly and a snippet of doing this or some value to my audience and again I think people can stop themselves so much because they overthink that they need to have yeah the setup that we've got set up today you know you need to have the studio lighting and the perfect backdrop and the perfect thing this is different this is a podcast we have got it set up very differently but as me and you are going about our daily lives we're also recording that is it b-roll yeah the kind of b-roll footage type thing that is just on the spot it's just then and there it's our thoughts it's our things and again I think people underestimate that and could be doing so much more of that because it's so good time-wise yeah yeah and then that b-roll is your is your kind of safety net because when you do record stuff to camera you can drop those clips in and then that masks any bits where you've cut out and edited where you've messed up you know that's that's the main reason I use it you know it's not one clean take and it's not all done in one shot um you know I know I've got the the editing capabilities to edit things quickly and it's not a hassle for me whereas for someone who's not done that before and hasn't got that experience it's gonna be quite daunting yeah I appreciate that but there are tools out there we've talked about video editing in past episodes that you know if you make it as easy as possible for yourself and you know it doesn't doesn't have to be a daunting thing and yeah I've just found it's a really powerful tool for my my personal brand and probably one that's expected when I offer video production as a service I offer decent photography so I've got to have good visuals you know I've got to have effective visuals yeah and that's the thing isn't it it's utilizing the skills that you have based off of also what people are expecting from you as well like how professional do you need things to be really yeah not how you expect it to need to be but how professional do you need it to be yes for you if you created a rubbish video or a rubbish photography or whatever then people would be like so you're a photographer but for me if I created a bit of a you know if If I'm doing a video in a one hour and I do say some ums and some ahs and I haven't edited it perfectly, that's fine.

11:40I'm just getting my point across. I'm not a professional videographer or photographer. So it's cool, isn't it? Yeah. So again, it's knowing what your strengths and weaknesses are, using that in a timely manner and doing it in a way that your audience really connects with. And that's that's what you do so well. I think you really connect with the audience. Yeah. Do you hear that out and about when you speak to people? Yeah, I get a lot of, you know, people say, you know, oh, that video you shared the other day was really helpful. Or, you know, I think people like seeing behind the scenes things because we're all nosy.

12:12We're all kind of, you know, if you're a lawyer, it would be very difficult to record behind the scenes things of meetings, you know, because you wouldn't be able to do it. Whereas a photo shoot is quite intimate and it is private. And it's not a very, it's a vulnerable place to be in front of the camera, you know particularly if you're not looking forward to doing that but all my clients are quite happy for me to record those little bits and actually when I do sort of play bits back to them or send them bits to say I'm going to share this you happy with me sharing this and it might be a bit of conversation we've had in the session you know people are actually quite happy to share that because they think if that's going to help someone else feel as comfortable as I did when I was there then that's worth worth me being on camera for or that being out there and that's a really nice kind of supportive environment but I think I think that only comes from how my process is everything up to that point is about nurturing people to feel comfortable and be ready for that you know it's not like it's not like I've got you in and you're feeling good in front of camera and now I'm going to take advantage and share on my socials about how great you're feeling because of me it's not that you know the process started ages ago from when you know you first said you need some photos but you know the fear of god is put in you of having them done you know we start talking and breaking down those barriers on that point so it's it's quite reflective in that sense yeah yeah yeah and do you find as well like so you do share a good amount of content consistently out to the world do you find as well that your content might not get as many sort of likes and views sometimes as you maybe want or or would like in an ideal world but then actually you find that when you're out and about someone talks to you they they haven't even liked it they haven't even shown in you thought that that was white noise and tumbleweed but then when you have the conversations in person you're like oh you did see oh people are seeing it do you find that as well yeah I feel like I've tried every strategy in the book of you know post daily at this time or find a certain time that works with your audience and all that stuff and you know I now find that as long as the quality of the output is consistent it doesn't really matter how regularly I am posting if I happen to miss a week because I've just been flat out and I didn't get around scheduling stuff or you know sharing some posts I found it doesn't affect my numbers necessarily and exactly like say like my numbers are incredibly modest in terms of the amount of engagement I get and you know I look at it and sometimes I can get frustrated going why is this not getting better why is it not getting higher but like you say there will be people I bump into or people that message me or book a call that we've had no interaction beforehand but it's because of the content they have been following and they have been seeing or perhaps someone might have tagged them in a post the mind or something that we then sort of come across each other but yeah it's interesting that isn't it is interesting because a lot of people are focused on you know the content putting it out there and they get brave and they put it on there and then it flops and they're like oh no it's not working and then that disheartens them and puts them off so the consistency just completely disappears and they go off grid for ages but I think we underestimate the power of showing up yeah how visible we are without knowing we are yes yeah yeah people might not like it they might not love heart it they might not share it they might not comment on it but people are seeing it yeah they're seeing it and they know it and again it opens those conversations it opens those doors and also like the culmination over it over time someone might not be ready to work with us at that precise moment but they've seen something over time consistently of yours you make them feel comfortable you make them feel relaxed you show great work off to the world you feel like a human that they'd get on with as well and then suddenly they are calling to go I need to work with you I've got this project I've got this thing yeah I need to come and see you and I think we we stopped doing those things that would lead to that phone call eventually because we phone call didn't happen after the first post or after the second post so we've got to have that not consistent not perfect consistency because i think you hit the nail on the head there didn't you as well when we talk about consistency doesn't need to be every single day all the time all the time but you're showing up more than you are away yeah yeah like two month breaks three month breaks i'm back everyone yes yeah yeah if i've ever had like a longer break i do notice that affect the amount of conversations i might be having with people yeah it certainly is a trigger for people to to open up a chat and message but yeah it's just about not being too stressed out about sustaining that isn't it it's got it's got to be sustainable at the end of the day whatever whatever level of content you're putting out for your personal brand it's got to be on brand and it's got to be sustainable yeah and just do it in a way that works for you and you can't physically create it and and get it out to the world as well like stop stressing about the perfect so while you were working on your new branding then what was like the most surprising thing to you about the process of doing that yeah I'd say yeah one of the most interesting things was going into this kind of rebrand if you're creating a brand the first thing you're going to go to is like your logo isn't it your colors and what was really interesting was being encouraged that that was actually the last part that slots into everything else um which you know i i like i mentioned earlier full trust in the process and it's like okay yeah let's do it um because for me it wasn't about the logo anyway there were so many other challenges it probably would be that i would have chosen something completely different as the logo and we would have then gone down a different avenue that wouldn't have been the right messaging or connect with the audience that we were trying to connect with yeah and I think that's just such a valuable thing to share because a lot of people that start on their own we're all wanting to do what's affordable at that time which is to do things ourselves so whether that is building the website like I did for many years or creating a logo like I did for many years for myself and it's it's important to know that actually the the vital part is what you do and how you do it and how you communicate that and logo really like it's it's the last thing you you sort of think of isn't it when you think of a business that you're working with certainly on a local service-based level anyway but like you say once you've got that clarity of everything else picking me logo then and stuff like that is a bit easier because you know what you're trying to do yeah what you want to convey so for those of you who don't know, Headshot Toby Studio is based here in Spark House in Lincoln.

19:14They offer flexible office spaces, business mentoring, and even have virtual offices if you're not quite ready for a full-time desk. As a sole trader and a photographer with lots of equipment, it was really important I found somewhere that had space for me that was affordable so that I had plenty of room to grow my business in a way that was scalable. And Spark House may just be the perfect solution too for you. get in touch today by emailing sparkhounds at lincoln.ac.uk and you'll also find our email address in the show notes below the photo shoot so you went on the road photo shoot so i'm intrigued to see how you found being on the other side of the camera in a professional photo shoot as well what was that like it's always it's always interesting because i'm always like yeah okay i see why you're doing that like you know so so i went to my good friend um nick dork's photography he's fantastic he works a lot with actors and performers um and that he's been a mentor to me over the years and I've learned a lot from him also grabbed a couple of freebies equipment and bits he's throwing out I'll take that um so I went down to visit him at his new studio and um yeah you know if he if he got on his knees on the floor and was on a low angle I was kind of going yeah no I can picture what this is going to look like so I've got a benefit that my clients haven't but it was really interesting to be on that side of the camera again to go okay yeah I understand how it feels now like if the photographer's you know down on the floor I appreciate that feels even more vulnerable and strange and odd or you know I went through the same process of like you know I don't know what to do with my hands or I don't know how should I sit how should I you know and I guide people through this every day you know so it was it was really interesting to kind of go through that journey that everyone else does yeah yeah you've got access to your client's journey yeah really so again which is really valuable yeah and it can inform then more content as you come back because again you're thinking like oh gosh I was really uncomfortable with that that and that yeah like we do like even angles like every woman out there will know when their partner comes out with their phone and the angle is down below you're like screaming inside at them no moving up because you're just thinking like how many chins is this going to get on video so again when you're trusting somebody else and an actual photographer who can see something so I've seen that shot it's like actually quite a wide angle shot isn't it and you're not seeing chins that it's a whole different but your head's not thinking that on the other side so it's just so interesting isn't it and what an experience to have so that must have been really cool to go to like his studio and stuff and see his setup and he's mentoring you so he's a bit further along maybe in his journey than you are like what was that like for like your own vision and stuff yeah it was really exciting I was kind of going in there going this is what I want to have one day yeah it was it was definitely like that and I mean he's he's just a bit of a visionary as it is anyway he's very good DIY so like the different areas he's made in his studio it's a huge space so you know he's he's basically just created himself lots of different environments of which to photograph in one room which is really cool you know that is the luxury to be able to go let's just move everything over here now and photograph you here and then move some lights over here um which is in the moment i've kind of outgrown my space a bit in terms of i have to kind of ask the client to go stand in the corner shift everything away so i can change my backgrounds and things you know it would be it would be awesome to go you know what the aim now is to have a space where um i can offer all these different things with ease and um you know basically just keep improving on what that offering is um but it's also creative as well isn't it it's trying to creatively keep pushing myself not just do the same things because that's what i can achieve in the space i'm in um it's trying to keep offering something really as a photographer you have got the whole world as your space as well so it's not confining yourself to your office or your student that's a great actually a space to store all of your equipment and to keep stuff and actually we've got a whole world out there haven't we and with branding nowadays and personal branding like you've got to showcase the real you of stuff so actually it might need to be on a location somewhere if it ties in with the messaging again that you're trying to get across with the world so that must be quite exciting and also has its challenges yeah it does yeah you know every every client has different needs don't they so like they might be in different industries they might have certain specific things that they need to share and show um so yeah there's there's certainly a bulk of my work where I'm traveling to locations or finding places to kind of capture that yeah yeah so that's a wrap on season three episode one of the brand new podcast so make sure you follow along on the linkedin group the brand new linkedin group where you can catch up on all the latest news and also ask us any personal branding questions that you have as well here's to branding you

24:35Let's go.

25:05Thank you.