Claire Williams: “They’ve Ripped up the Rulebook” | Is F1 About to be Flipped on its Head? (Ep.105)

28:04We have 11th team this year. We have Cadillac joining. What do you look at it as? I don't think. I think Formula One is very clever at protecting itself. There are mechanisms in place with the constitution of the sport. that will not allow that. I mean, for that 11th team to come in, that would have taken an enormous amount of negotiation and conversations. It's not just a given. I don't think Formula One is smart enough to make sure that it protects itself against over-egging the pudding, I think, so to speak. And you don't worry about it being a distribution model that is now feeding more mouths than it needs to.

28:45That's been some of the criticism. It's been, oh, we're just splitting the pot now between another team when actually... I think there's enough in the pot. Yeah. You know, I think that argument was relevant. I remember, you know, sat around the table in strategy group and when another team wanted to come in, it was like, well, the pot's quite small as it is right now. You know, I mean, other numbers are going to elude me, but, you know, tens of million. We could lose, we could each lose, you know, 10, 15 million with this team coming in. and that's not really particularly fair. I mean, a team now is going to have 10 to 15 million down the back of its sofa.

29:22It's not going to worry about it. There is enough money in the pot of Formula One to be able to accommodate an 11th team. There's probably enough money in the pot of Formula One to accommodate 15 teams in the sport. But all the TPs will then reject it because they don't want to have to share. They don't want to share out. And quite right, you know, they've invested how much they've invested. a new team shouldn't be automatically deserving of the same amount of that prize fund pot that existing teams get. It's got to be a ratcheted system. But Formula One won't, just the other TPs, the sport won't allow that many teams.

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30:39And it doesn't matter if you miss out on general sale. Seat Unique gives fans secure access to events that are already sold out so missing a drop doesn't mean missing the event. They know the concern around hidden fees and unclear pricing. What you see is what you pay. No nasty surprises at checkout. Discover your next premium experience by following the link in the description to seatunique.com. Can I ask when you came last time you said the hardest time you had at Williams was in 2019 when you didn't get the car testing and I must admit the other day it gave me a little bit of a flashback to that when Williams missed the shakedown now not testing but the shakedown yeah should we be worried if you're looking at this type of thing and the team doesn't get a car to that stage do you know it just can happen it's not what you want to happen but these regs that we talked about as we talked about earlier they are sweeping in their remit and you know it's it's really hard I think what the fans of the sport doesn't perhaps necessarily always understand and because it's not shown is the work that goes on behind the scenes over the winter the work that goes on to get a new car ready that as soon as pretty much you've put your car on the truck to get to the first test of the year you are your engineers and aero they're working on yeah then they've got simultaneous programs for development of the existing car over the course of the year but they are then implementing plans for the next season's car.

32:07And it takes all of that time up until February. So from March in one year through to February the next, the aero team and the design office, they are all focusing on next year's car. And that's within a period of stable regulations. And it is still a push to get your car out. You can't imagine or underestimate the work that is involved in getting a new car while simultaneously running an existing race program. You then throw into the mix a whole set of new technical regulations that these teams have to try and interpret, analyze, and then implement and design around. And then you expect them to do the same thing as you expect them in a normal regulatory year to get that car to testing in February.

32:52It is an unconscionable achievement that anybody almost gets their car to a test. They'll own a test in a new regulatory year. The fact that Williams haven't, yeah, I mean, it's not great for their program. But it's, you know, I don't think we can, there's no criticism leveled. There shouldn't be. And is it a concern? We can only know when the car hits the track and we can see where its performance is at in Melbourne and give it a few races. But, you know, it shouldn't really be a surprise. This is a hard sport with really tight timeframes that these teams are having to work to. If 10 get there and one doesn't, one has to go, well, something went wrong with that one.

33:40Like the others made it happen. Something will have gone wrong, right? Yeah. You know, when I can talk from my experience in 2019, we didn't get our car to testing and it was unexpected. if I'm honest with you, from my perspective, I thought things in our operations areas were fine. And it was only in hindsight because we did a massive after action review. Because if you can imagine, getting your car to testing is almost just a given. I've grown up in the sport, I've never seen my dad not get his car to testing. You know, you kind of just anticipate that's what's going to happen. You almost don't, you don't understand the processes.

34:17You don't, you just expect all those processes to happen. And obviously, when we failed spectacularly, we held our hands up and we said, we've got a massive issue here, we ballzed up, we're going to be a couple of days late to testing. We don't know yet why. And we won't know until we've done our after action review. And then we put in a six month program of understanding what did go wrong, so that we could put in processes and procedures to make sure that that never went wrong again, which we did. And then we made sure that the next year we actually had a stupid thing where we said right next year we're going to have our car ready two days early because we are not going to be late again and we had our car ready two days early but I don't think they will they might understand and they're not telling us what's happened I'm sure you know they probably do they just don't want to air their dirty laundry in public and why should they but they will be fully I suppose they'll be they'll be actioning programmes to understand or analysis to understand exactly what has happened and why that car hasn't reached testing.

35:19And of course, they'll be worried, but they're not going to tell us that. Based on what the team achieved last year. Yeah. It was great progress. Yeah. So you still look at that with pride. What I find is, you know, you asked me the question earlier about McLaren and will Zach be, you know, ruining these new regulations. The same question is probably applicable to Williams. They have worked so hard to bring themselves up and they were doing so well last year. I mean, they finished fifth in the championship. That's no mean feat. And they had a lovely couple of podiums and they probably thought, well, hey, we're getting somewhere here.

35:55And now they've started this season and they can't get the car to testing. And for me, yeah, that is a worry because I don't want them to be in that position. You know, that team is a great team. And I know how hard it is. It is so brutal. It is so hard. And blood, sweat and tears will have still have gone into that 2026 program, that 2026 car. And now off the back of P5, they would have wanted to springboard it to fighting for P4 and continue that journey. And is this now going to put them back to where they don't want to be again? And that's really sad because I know so many of those people at Williams.

36:37And James Bowes is a fantastic team principal and he's got a plan. And it's just a real, it's not, I don't think a distraction would be the right word to call it. But it's just, it's not what they want. And it's not what any of us want because we all love Williams. It's a great team and they deserve to do well. And, you know, those poor people now, you know, have got a real job on their hands to sort this out and to get to the first race with a car that's hopefully as competitive as last year's. Could surprise us all. Turn up in first testing and suddenly go, hey. You never know. They could have found something.

37:12This is one of the brilliant things about when you have a regulatory change like we've got this year, is that it does allow a level of innovation in the sport that you don't normally get to see. And it's when these brilliant engineers that fill the paddock come up with some of these wonderful new technologies that can propel them to the front of the grid. I mean, it's exactly what happened to Braun in 2009. They came out with a double diffuser and that just put them light years ahead of everyone else. No one could catch up. And Jenson Button ran off into the sunset and won a world championship.

37:48And it was brilliant. And that is what Formula One is. Despite, you know, you might complain, well, it was a one horse race, but that's what Formula One is. It's about these brilliant engineers unleashed and coming up with amazing technologies that we all look at and go, where the hell did that come from? And my point is, Williams may have done exactly that. You never know. They could be hiding behind, we're not getting our car to testing, because we've actually come up with something incredible. And we don't want to show that to everybody. Because if we do, then everybody can see it, they can analyze it, and then they can go and come up with their own version before Melbourne.

38:25We might miss this. So they can't do that. And it doesn't buy teams a load of time to come up with this brilliant new tech. Who knows? I'm not saying that's what's happened, but you never can tell. Spoiler. Spoiler. I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm not saying that's what happened. I have no inside intel. But that's, you know, that's what I'm hoping. What do you think of driver lineups? We've gone from a stage of like, a couple of years ago, I think we had no rookies. Yeah. Then last year, we had six. and then not only the six but then the kind of chaos of changing just a few races in with Doon and Lawson and Sunoda and all of this coming and then this year we've only got one again.

39:01I guess last year actually looking at that just with the upheaval that went on within some of these teams like why does that happen? I think last year was probably one of the best years we've had in Formula 1 and as a fan of the sport it was a privilege and to have had six rookies I mean normally you think oh my gosh I mean, that's nearly a third of the grid is made up of drivers that have never turned a wheel in F1. And yet those rookies did a great job to produce some brilliant racing, which is hard. Normally, you kind of see rookies going off left, right and center. And yeah, there were a few shunts as to be expected, but they did a brilliant job, despite some changes.

39:40And I mean, looking at that, nobody ever wants to see a driver taken out of their car in the middle of the year, particularly early on. And it can be soul destroying. But equally, sometimes it can be the right decision for a driver. You know, if that driver is not coping well, particularly in a scenario like a Red Bull, that is a very harsh environment in Formula One when you're a rookie. There is, it's just, you know, it's an unconscionable place really to understand the pressure. And particularly now in the sport, it's a hard sport with the weight of the world watching you. sometimes it's a better decision for your driver to actually put him back in the shadows.

40:21But three races in, Claire, three races in. I mean, again, it's your job. Accountability, therefore, I'm looking at that and I'm going, it's whoever's put that person in the car. Like, this is such a big job. It's high stakes. Formula One is high stakes. There is a lot of risk. And what are you going to do? If you've seen that your driver can't perform, are you just going to allow that to happen for the year? You know, because if you don't have, you've only got one side of the garage that's performing you know you're scoring half the points versus your rivals and last year you talk about there were brilliant driver lineups there were brilliant driver lineups did you have moments when you doubted your drivers significantly enough to make big big changes no i never i never was in a position for whatever reason where i had you know I was forced, I had my hand forced in that sense, thank God, because I would have hated it.

41:15And respectfully, do you go home after a race going, hmm, I wonder if it's the driver? Yeah, of course you do. Well, you don't wonder, sometimes you know, yeah, because the data is there. And also, you've got two teammates. The last thing you want to do is destabilise your team and take a driver out. And in Veriby, most of the time, you have picked a driver based on their performance and it normally works out. These drivers, they're the best in the world. You know, it's unlikely that you've got a driver that can't deliver what you need them to deliver. Sometimes they can't, sometimes they don't work out.

41:50And, you know, then some teams will make the really difficult decision to pull them. I fortunately never had to do that. I mean, it was bad enough when at the end of the year, you'd have to sometimes let your drivers go. I mean, that was horrible. Those were conversations that I would absolutely detest you know when it's like we used to have to dump a boyfriend when you were young or something and you'd like sit there for hours and talk to your mates about how you were going to do it and you'd get that real nervous feeling and it's oh this is awful i feel horrible um it was exactly the same i'm not any of these drivers in my like had relationships like that would but it's the same kind of thing did you make it quick and you're like direct like hey this is it or do you kind of no i would be much more yeah the shit sandwich approach yeah Do you think being Max Verstappen's understudy or the second driver at Red Bull is probably the most difficult car to drive in Formula One?

42:40I think there are two really hard jobs in Formula One. I think at the moment, I don't know what is going on with that second seat at Red Bull. It's almost like it's cursed. I don't know. It's something weird. I think they may have found their guy, Isaac Hadja. Hadja, yes. Who was brilliant last year. Brilliant. A rookie last year. Yeah. But he's got the attitude as well, I think, that you need in that car. You've got to have, I think, in that team, in that car, you have to have a particular type of personality. And I think he's definitely demonstrating that. But I think as well, you can't take anything away from Max.

43:14You can't take away anything from that team. They've done an extraordinary job as a team. And with Max, Max Verstappen is just, I have a newfound love and respect for him as a driver. When he first came into the sport, in my humble opinion, I wasn't that sure. Or, you know, and then I think like a lot of us, it's a bit like Marmite. But what he has demonstrated in the sport over the past couple of years, I mean, it is mind-boggling. It's some drivers, they get to a point in their careers, they get to a level of performance where it is just supreme. And you watch it and you're just watching magic that only a certain number of drivers, I think, get to in their careers.

43:55Like an Ayrton Senna would get there, you know, got there. and Michael Schumacher. And Max is in that period now. And it's actually a real privilege to watch. I mean, I felt that last year probably demonstrated it the most because the ability he had to make that competitive at the end. Yeah. Against the McLaren car that was amazing, right? And the Red Bull car, which was obviously good, but it had some real issues throughout the season. And he still took it to the last day. And it wasn't just the car that had issues. I mean, the whole team was in trouble last year for whatever reason. we won't talk about.

44:29But to come out of that, despite the distractions, despite the performance with the competition, what I loved was he was just so blasé about it. It was like, yeah, you could see Lando, you could see Oscar, desperate for that championship win. You could see how hard they were or how deep they were digging. And Max was just kind of blasé. If it happens, it happens. He's just awesome. It was a great piece on the question people ask all the time, I'm sure. we probably asked it to you last time, but how much of it is the driver? How much of it is the car? And when you look at the top, top level you realise how good the driver actually has to be.

45:07That debate will rage on. Put me in the seat in your seat. I'll show you the answer, maybe. To be honest, he could probably do based on what the second seat of Red Bull has done. He'd probably do a decent job. Me and Nico actually, Nico Rosberg, have a bet that he can beat me driving backwards and me going forwards. In a cart. cart. Do you know Nico, I've been in a road car with Nico because I was his press officer and he taught me this incredible thing about drivers. His driving, the thing about F1 drivers on the roads, you can trust them implicitly. You might not be able to trust everyone around them, but you can trust them.

45:45So Nico told me when we were driving once and I just, I was sat in the passenger seat and it just felt like a really different experience to being sat next to any other normal driver, road driver. And I was like, what? It was quite weird what was going on. And I was talking to him about it. He said, I think the difference between an F1 driver in a road car and a normal driver is we're applying what we do in a race car. And in a race car, we're sat there and we're not doing what everyone else would do and looking at what's coming or what's in front of us, you know, what's 10, 20 meters in front of us.

46:16We've already clocked that. Our brain has already processed that. We're looking at what's down the road, what's 100 meters, what's 200, 300 meters, because we've got to, because we've got to prepare for the corner and the breaking zone and all the rest of it. And it was like, wow, to actually, if you can think about your brain processing that, having already processed it and being prepared for what it needs to do to go through that moment, to then, Nico explained this much more eloquently than I did, but then to be focused on the next, like most people's brains don't want like that. Do you remember Daniel Kivat?

46:47Yes. Kiviat. Kiviat, yeah. I don't know who Kivat was. Kivat, yeah, I'm sure it was. He said Kivat. Yeah, isn't that right? Or we used to call him Kiviat. Well, okay, Kiviat. We'll find out. Someone will criticize. Someone will. Someone, go on, tell us who got it right, please. Anyway, what I was going to say is I remember, I think he passed his test at least a couple of years after he'd been driving a Formula One car. Yeah. And I always thought, imagine being that instructor sitting there next to a Formula One driver, telling them, can you check your mirrors, please? Can you imagine? Or giving them...

47:16But that was Lance Stroll. So when Lance joined Williams, he didn't have his test, but he needed his... I'm not going to remember this story particularly well. But Lawrence's dad had to fly him somewhere because he couldn't get his road test. And at that stage, I think you had to have your driver's license to actually be able to race in Formula One. And he hadn't got it. And you know what the booking system's like in the UK to try and get a driving test. We couldn't get one for him in time. No, you don't. We couldn't get one for him in time. Lawrence had to fly him somewhere to get him to a driving test centre and to be able to get it done.

47:51His Bognor Regis was the one spot. Exactly. Does Verstappen stay with Rad Bull? I don't know. Does he? I mean, all those Toto Wolff boat scenarios. Who knows what goes on. It'd be tough though, wouldn't it? Because obviously you go in as lead driver and you've been building up Russell. You've got to give him a crack now. And can you imagine Max and George in the same team? It wouldn't work, would it? It would be Max and Kimi. Because George wouldn't be a second driver. George is not going to hang around. But that's George's team, isn't it? I think George would be great in a McLaren. Oscar and Lando are brilliant in the McLaren, obviously.

48:29But if there was a seat, I see George as a real McLaren-esque driver. Really? I don't know why. I just do. What do you think of as a McLaren-esque driver? A very cerebral, professional, buttoned up, all rounded, kind of thoughtful, kind of very British, kind of, you know, I don't know. Very British. Very British. He seems like a very nice guy. George. Oh, he's wonderful. Is he? Yeah. Yeah. He is. I just, you know, these, they were young enough to be my kids, these drivers, makes me feel so old. And, you know, there's a maternal instinct, I think, a little bit. You know, George, I just, I don't know if people see George for who he is.

49:17But he is, I miss George. You know, I miss the fact that he's not in my life because he's just one of the most wonderful human beings I genuinely have ever met. And I was very lucky that he was in our team because he was just so considered. He was so professional and he gave it everything. And just, but so down to earth, so normal. and his family they were always around were lovely and he was just a pleasure if you have a team and you can choose between one asset to have in your team Adrian Newey or Max Verstappen who do you have? one's on the track one's off it both great assets here he is assets you see I would always avoid calling people assets Harry you're looking at me like going what's wrong with you?

50:06you know the drill now we're at the end of two years You can't call people assets. I don't know. It's just not. Where's your emotional intelligence? Come on.

50:17They're human beings. They're people. Which human being would you? Do you know, I think I would have to go with Adrian, I'm afraid, because that's where it all starts. That might answer your question about driver, car, and the ratio of performance. As I said, Adrian, Newey is a genius. What an asset. But I guess the point is that, well, I mean, because Gunter was, I think we were talking about, when he was talking about Haas, he was like, stick Max in a Haas. He's like, no, he's not winning. He's not winning. But you stick. Did you ask Gunter this question? So he said Adrian. Well, Gunter said straight up, he said you could put a good driver in Max Verstappen World Championship winning Red Bull.

51:03Yes. And they'd have a better chance of winning the world title than Max would have driving a Haas. Exactly. So there's an element to drive a car, but he's not going to win it driving something that is just incapable. There's an expression in F1 that we use quite regularly. You can't polish a turd. Is that what you're saying, Hassan? No. I said there is an expression in Formula One. That's a great article. Claire Williams on Hassan, you can't polish a turd. No, no, no. You cannot connect the two. And if I see a headline out there, I'm coming for the headline writer. You're coming for us. And I would just like to say Haas has actually done, Io has done a fantastic job at Haas.

51:45He's done brilliant things. Well, great, yeah, obviously, didn't he? It's been really fascinating, the shift, actually. And you've kind of almost got this kind of third gen of team principals now running teams. And it's really shifted towards team principals having engineering technical backgrounds rather than the management business type backgrounds that the second generation I refer to is kind of when I was in the sport with Toto and Christian and Gunter and those kinds of individuals. How many female TPs do we have? None. Oh. Still an icon. Until there's another one that I'm obliterated. How many will we have in five years time?

52:23Well, I left the sport five and a half years ago. And still nothing. No, still nothing. It was a bit that blew up on our last show when we were talking about women driving in Formula One and just you were going into the lack of institutional support. The ecosystem, the development levels, you know, just doesn't facilitate access to female drivers. What's great, though, is that so much change has happened in this space in the past decade. And I think it is changing from behind the scenes in the teams that we don't get to see a lot. But I think still so much work can be done. I was at a brilliant event at the weekend run by Motorsport UK, their Girls on Track event.

53:03And there are so many, and that's about promoting young girls into motorsport. There are so many intelligent, passionate women that want to enter this sport. And that is brilliant to see. and from all aspects or go into all disciplines. It's not just about finding the next female F1 driver. It is about finding the next female aerodynamicist, the next female design office people, the next female apprentices across all disciplines and finding the next F1 TP because that is as much of a role model as having an F1 driver as a female. And it is so important. And there are so many brilliant women working and it's just a case of time transitioning and promoting those women into more senior roles to one day hopefully step up conscious of the time so we had a big finish just because i want this is what i'm going to call your accountability games yikes i don't have to be accountable yeah you do no you do to us yeah yeah no it's very important it's not a big finish it's the predictions oh constructors come on we've got all of this change that's really unfair this year if you're going to ask me like predictions for the season really yeah constructors i was thinking like who could i put a sneaky bet on this year and make a ton of cash because it is one of those years well yeah you you can't discount aston are the odds good they probably would be for it you can't discount red bull ever their technical team is really strong no the odds aren't brilliant i was thinking you know it might be 100 to 1 for aston i mean i think it's about 12.

54:32you put aston i think aston or red bull i think but you know i'm gonna split it i'm gonna put both on Aston or Red Bull or McLaren. No, don't put any bets on. I just ask that people. So I'm going to put on... So constructors, we've got Aston, Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes. Yeah, exactly. And that is the brilliant thing about this year is that nobody, I don't think anyone can call it. Driver. Again, it's going to be which... It is going to be about who's got the best car. Matt, Landau, Oscar, Lewis. Come on, I'm betting. Feed me. I have to have one. Can I just say who I'd like to see? Yes. well clearly I'd love to see Williams pull it out the bag and out the box but if not then McLaren again I'll take McLaren again Driver Driver Lando had his turn last year which I was thrilled about that was great and has it got to be Oscar Oscar everyone needs a turn oh no no no sorry George I was going to say, surely we have a McLaren win and a George driver.

55:38We'll have a McLaren constructor, George driver. Okay. Yeah. Then what about our surprise package? Aston, would it be a surprise? Well, I suppose from where they were last year. I think you'd have to say it would be. Who are the other? If that's not Williams. Yeah, Williams. Who are in the Haas? Williams. Audi. They're new. No. Well, yeah, they've had so many changes and it's a new program in effect. That was the Shun King, wasn't it? They're new? No. Cash, trap, whatever they're called. You know, I guess who's going to turn up in a way where they have performed far better this year than they did last?

56:17And that's where these regulations are exciting. As you said, we've levelled the playing field. Suddenly, you could see Aston Martin go from really struggling, Alpine really struggling last year to doing something good. Williams, you could have said, were a surprise package last year. Exactly. Getting that best of the rest spot. Who knows this year? that I said that you just do I could not I could not tell you okay I'm going to call it for you tell you Lawrence Stroll I had the pleasure privilege of working with him and seeing what an operator he is and that man whatever he touches turns to gold you know if you know Lawrence's background in business you'll know like how successful he's been with all the brands that he's been associated with in retail, if that's what you call it, retail.

57:05Is that what you call it? And he is building a championship winning machine. If you can see what he's done to his headquarters, he's not messing around bringing Adrian Nui in. He's brought Jenson Button in for a reason. Jenson Button is an ambassador taking the pressure away from the drivers, doing a lot of their marketing commitments. And you've got Fernando Alonso in there who knows how to build a car and a team. you know he's building a he's built a warship and when is that coming out to play this could be this year could be this year that's a great line he's building a warship when's that coming out to play okay finally yeah flops flops flops yeah flops who's gonna have an absolute stinker i think it's gonna be really hard for cadillac and the and yeah audi interesting okay so you just think both new teams coming here and i wouldn't call it a flop you know they it's a building in no one can come into the sport as a new team and expect to shine I mean that's just that would make a mockery of the sport if nothing else but you know I love Valtteri was one of my he was one of my first ever drivers and I as much as George adore Valtteri and I just think he's awesome and Sergio Perez as well I think they're great drivers I think they have done absolutely the right thing by bringing two experienced old hands into the team but I think it's going to be a real struggle for them this year.

58:26But please, can we not call it flop? Okay, I'm sorry. We'll wait. We'll say it. My old friend, Graham, Graham Loudon is TP of that team. And it's really great to have him back in the sport because he is a really good man. Do you think Lewis has a better year? He's already looking out. I'll try. Do you know, you'd be surprised actually because these racing drivers, they actually don't really give a shit about anything else. All they want is to win. And in someone like Lewis, it is almost a, it's like oxygen. My dad used to say that. Formula One's like oxygen, it fixes you. And Lewis, he'll need that.

59:03Formula One is like that. You know, just, I was never at that level. But not being in the sport, it feels bereft, not being in the sport. Lewis isn't just going to go, you know, who cares? I'm worth however much I'm worth. And I'm now with, you know, a kid, a Kardashian and whatever. who cares if I don't do well this year he will be raging he wouldn't be driving it must be genuinely hard when you are a massive global superstar and being in the public like so much to have your head in the game as it was it just must be hard he is quite good at retaining his privacy I mean as much as we all know Lewis and see him out he's actually how much do you actually really see him out he is private and he does Because he has a singular focus, Lewis, for all the outfits or whatever, that's just his personal thing.

59:59But he is blinkered. Yeah. Don't underestimate that. And I think he will always remain so. Final, final one. He's just got that brain. Any returns planned? Any big involvement? I could be the next V-18 principal. Yeah. Wouldn't that be lovely? I'd love to. Would you like to be? Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. That would be amazing. But that's never going to happen. Do you not think? No, I've had my time. I have had my time. So you're enjoying... Yeah, you know... Lots of different things. If life was different and I still, you know, what happened hadn't have happened to our team, I would still be at Williams running it.

1:00:40But if George Kirst called you up at Mercedes and was like, hey, come BTP at Mercedes. What, we're kicking Toto out? Yes, where's Toto going? I don't think that's going to happen. He's gone. yeah you probably take that i would give it a serious consideration clearly yes i would have a think about it a little ponder um but no that's and yeah i i do lovely things these days you know i i get to live a bit more of a normal life that's not dictated you know when i'm having my moments of missing it i sit there and i go yeah but you know i could be james vows right now with that pressure of not having my car out and knowing what he will be going through you know i don't have that and that's a privilege as well.

1:01:23Pressure is a privilege but not having it is also a privilege too. And, you know, I get to spend time at home. I still get to do a few projects here and there which I love. Yeah, and I'm a mum. And I get to come on podcasts like yours. First ever return guest as well. First ever. Yeah, yeah. Thanks. You were, it wasn't a lie, you were our favourite. Yeah. That's so kind of you. Cut that out so that we can still get other guests but, yeah. Yeah, exactly. But seriously, thank you so much for coming. it was so so great to have you back and i love talking about formula one it's the best right a big thank you once again to claire for coming and joining us i don't know if it came across but that just felt so fun to record relaxed informed entertaining i hope claire brings such confidence in her delivery to the chair that makes me even more excited to see how the season is going to pan out with the authority to speak underwritten by operational excellence and experience you really feel like you're getting inside the track, pardon the pun.

1:02:22It was a pleasure to welcome Claire back and I hope you enjoyed the show. Now, if you want to see more from today's show, you can do so by going to YouTube or any of our other social channels across Instagram and TikTok. There are more snippets to share and bite-sized chunks to consume. And whilst you're there, please do like, subscribe and follow the show. As you will hear from your other favourite pods, it makes a huge difference when bringing you the best guests and conversations from the world of sport, which is of course our endless aim. Thank you again for tuning in and we'll see you next week.

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