From Running Man United Women to Becoming a CEO in the EFL | Polly Bancroft, Grimsby Town (Ep119)

24:56Polly Bancroft:It's about moments, isn't it? But it's also about them capitalizing on those moments and trying to make them last as long as you can. And that's incredible to have merch sales out to Indonesia. I'd imagine for your supply chain, that's probably a slightly different challenge to meet. but did you see a convergence over a longer term of interest in the club after that result that's kind of stuck to now what recording in beginning of May? Yeah, so we've seen a 40 % increase in our social media channels that we've been able to retain as well. So I think 9 million people watched the game. That was 5 million domestically, 4 million internationally.

25:35Now the Saturday after we played Bristol Rovers at home and our media team did a bit of a play on Ruben Amarin with his tactics board and the magnets. So I don't know if those watching the game remember that where he's sort of... After we forget, yeah. Yeah, playing with the magnets. Poor Ruben.

25:52Polly Bancroft:Yeah. Now, you know, if I take this back to a strategic perspective, some of the work that we did around our brand and our purpose and who we are dials into our sense of humor. And they wanted to make a bit of a play and actually announced our team. using a tactics board and magnets sat in the dugout. Now that piece of content got 10 million views. So it's more than the people that actually watched the game watched that piece of content. So it's just an amazing reach. But yeah, that led to a 40 % increase in our followers and we've been able to sustain that with our engagement this year. It's so good.

26:28Polly Bancroft:I mean, I can only imagine the environment around the stadium after that. What's it like for you building up to a game like that? From your job perspective, does it significantly change? Are there things that you have to suddenly consider? Things that are requirements that you have to meet in the stadium when you have a big Premier League team coming? Yeah, I think other than it being a normal match day in terms of those operations which we've got in hand, it was the media interest. So normally I think we get half a dozen media reps in the ground. That day we had over 100. So from a scale perspective, trying to then schedule in all of the interviews.

27:04and we really wanted to capitalise on that opportunity. So our owners made themselves available for the media. Our men's head coach, David Artel, made him see he was really good, did so much media in the lead up to it as well because we recognised that it was an opportunity that we wouldn't normally get. So we wanted to talk about the club. We wanted to talk about the work that we're doing in the community and that really close-knit relationship that we've got between the club and the fans. We wanted to talk about the good work that we're doing in the community and how we're trying to operate sustainably as well.

27:37So we recognize it's an opportunity and took full advantage.

27:40Polly Bancroft:Let's go in there because it's our favorite topic. You mentioned sustainability a few times. My favorite definition of sustainability comes from football, obviously. Still in the context of losing money. But all jokes aside, there's been a huge amount of work going on and there continues to be a huge amount of work to try and make football clubs better businesses. And I'd be really interested just to hear from your side, from the Grimsby perspective of financially as a business, how you're set up, how you're structured, the core kind of revenue drivers. And, you know, also if you're able to, you know, an understanding of the ownership and their support of the team.

28:19Sure. So I think if we talk in terms of losses, which is, you know, quite normal, unfortunately for this industry. So last year we announced our accounts and we lost 1.9 million. that was over a 13-month reporting period. Prior to that, it was 1.67. This year, we're forecast to do 1.3, 1.4 million loss. So it's a fairly steady loss. But within that period of time, we've moved from 16th to 9th and now 7th. So we've been able to retain the level of loss or in actual fact, close the level slightly, but also perform on the pitch as well.

28:56Polly Bancroft:So because you're losing, well, a third less. there from this year than you would have done last year. So, you know, 1.3 to 1.9 is a very good jump while you're also moving up the league. Was there a really clear indicator of that as to how you were able to achieve it? Yeah. So last year was over a 13-month period. So 1.9 is, yeah, a longer period. It also included two dunes, which is notoriously quite difficult in football because you've got your normal outgoings, but you haven't got as much incoming because you're not playing matches over that period. Really, we're trying to move the dial in every area.

29:31So, you know, a third of our contribution or our income comes from central distribution from the EFL. Another third comes from match day. So primarily from tickets and some from hospitality. Then on the commercial side, so our turnover is 6 million, 2 million comes from central distribution, 2 million from match day, a million from commercial. This year, we've just done a million pounds in retail for the first time ever in the club's history, which is actually on a par with some championship clubs. So we're punching above our weight there. And then we've got a small amount from non-match day and streaming as well.

30:09So we try to move the dial in every area possible. So we've done a small amount of increase on our season tickets and our match day prices, a small amount on our retail but we've really tried to focus particularly on the retail around items that sell well and when I joined the club we had like a bright yellow um away kit which you know from an identification perspective on the pitch worked great but in my mind you're not there's not many people that would wear a bright yellow shirt um down the pub down the seafront you know out with yourself sorry for any yellow uh wearing fans out there but i just didn't feel that there were strong retail items to be you know warner's leisure items at the same time so we really focused on what else could sell optimally not just look great on the pitch but

31:01Polly Bancroft:off the pitch as well central distribution as we said you know is really important but as you go lower down the leagues and it becomes less important it puts far more of the onus on you to create more of that value. Do you see the direct correlations we've just been talking about with social movement, you know, a 40 % increase in media? And then if you're looking at building out something like commercial, I would imagine and correct me if I'm wrong, a huge amount of the commercial revenue you drive is local. Do you now see or has there been very early indicators of a broader social reach maybe opening doors to do commercial deals in a broader geography and range as well as obviously keeping that core local association?

31:35Yeah, I think the core businesses are key for us. And it's not just in hard cash or in branding of the front of shirt, but actually what they're able to give in terms of services as well. So our front of shirt sponsor for next season is a local company called Black Row. They're an engineering firm. And they're also working with us on our steel around the ground. And they helped us to redesign some of our gates at Blondell Park as well, which are really iconic. so we're really looking at smart ways in which we can partner with local regional international companies that align with what we're trying to do as a club and whether that's in sustainability environmental purposes or just trying to help us be competitive on the pitch we're open to various types of conversations and we've still got some assets available that are big ticket items that we'll continue to go after if anybody's listening out there then happy to have a conversation but things like naming rights for Blundell Park we're looking at a new training ground which is a huge asset as well so there's still some areas to go out that will in my opinion help us close the gap again whilst also being competitive on the pitch.

32:46Polly Bancroft:Did you know the industry average for booking a business trip is 45 minutes? That is a massive waste of your team's time. With Navan your employees can book that same trip in just seven minutes. Navan is the AI-powered travel and expense platform designed for companies that value efficiency. It drives real business impact through high employee adoption and automated policy control. The built-in AI approves in policy bookings and blocks the rest automatically so finance teams can stop chasing receipts and skip the month-end chaos. You get real-time visibility that can save your company up to 15 % on your travel budget.

33:20Polly Bancroft:It's why industry leaders like stripe figma visa and anthropic rely on the van every day go to nevan.com slash 20vc today to see for yourself you will also get a chance to win two business class flights to anywhere in the continental us no purchase necessary rules apply good luck how's the balance you have to strike when talking about something like naming rights for a stadium built in 1899 holding such deep rooted associations with the community and the club to then bring a commercial element to it is that a challenge that you have to manage not with the conversations that we're having at the moment i think because of the local interest that we've got from a commercial perspective in the club and a lot of the people from the town are fans of the club would want to work with us around naming rights so to retain the blundell park along with a sponsor title is what ideally we'd like there'd probably be some more flexibility on the training ground, for example.

34:23So each asset is a case by case, but we're fortunate at the moment that there are some really large international companies that are on our doorstep that we're talking to, as well as local companies that are doing well in their own industry that want to work with us and align. If we take the kit, for example, the companies that we've worked with on front of shirt, back of shirt, sleeve and shorts have worked with us around the design. So they've been flexible on their color palette, for example, so that they'll blend in with the colour tone of the kit to make it look more visually appealing. Whilst it might not be directly in their core colours for their own brand, they've worked with us to get a nicer overall piece.

35:00Polly Bancroft:Do you own both assets, the training ground and the stadium? We own the ground. We lease the training ground at the moment, but we're looking to acquire a new piece of land for a training ground. And build a brand new property. Do you think that's really important? We talk a lot about that ownership of both those pieces of infrastructure and the ability for a club to then obviously leverage the value? Yeah, infrastructure is key and it becomes a huge asset of the club. My experience at Brighton and obviously them announcing recently the acquisition of land to develop a new women's stadium, that's really setting the standard for how to operate a club sustainably by investing in infrastructure, whether that's stadium or training ground, then looking at the people and the players.

35:45so that's our ambitions at Grimsby Town as well to build a training ground that isn't just for the elite arm of the club but also takes into consideration our foundations delivery but also understanding what the community want so we're in those conversations at the moment to try and blend together funding streams to realise some plans for that training ground that can then become a key part of the community and benefit all

36:10Polly Bancroft:Do the men's and women's team train the same? not at the moment no so our women's team will train similarly to our academy team which is so we're actually split across five different sites so we've got the we've got blundell park and we've got our men's training ground we've got a location for our academy and then the women so yeah we're quite disparate at the moment how's the women's team and its evolution you obviously mentioned great news you know going up getting promoted how does that uh position yourself where are the demands on the business we have a saying at grimsby town all town aren't we and that you know really encapsulates what we're trying to do it's it's for all so that's men that's women that's young that's old um you know that's that's everyone from you know supporters all the way through to men's first team players so you know they're an integral part of what we do but also from a business perspective you know we're generating revenue from the women's team the matches that they've played at bundle park have either made a profit or broken even and actually they're also a catalyst for withdrawing grants as well.

37:09So I spoke about the training ground. We've used their inclusion in the club to bid to be a host training ground for the Women's World Cup. And we also know that through grants through the Football Foundation that we need to secure some peak slots for the women and girls to train on. So they're actually integral, not just from being the right thing to do, but also from a business perspective.

37:32Polly Bancroft:tell us about the owners it's so important in this day and age particularly for clubs lower down the leagues to have solid trust and commitment from an ownership group who can provide some of the support and the funding uh you know i've seen from your ownership looks like they've turned some loans into equity which will be hugely valuable uh for the club but from your perspective obviously working with them and and how they've approached the ownership of the club how's that been where are they so important? Yeah, so Jason and Andrew are Grimsby Town fans. They've done exceptionally well in business and now they're reinvesting that back into the community through the football club.

38:12They took over in 2021, so they've had an absolute ride by getting promoted out of the National League at the first time of asking and now into League Two playoffs. So yeah, hopefully they're enjoying themselves as owners. Two years ago, they diversified their support of the football club by opening up an investment into their holding company called 1878. So I'm now working with half a dozen or so other investors, both overseas and here, to bring their business acumen and to diversify some of the risk off just Jason and Andrew. Actually, Jason Stockwood has to step back last year because he took a role with the government.

38:52So he's now mainly fan. He's still coming to a lot of the games, but yeah, he's supporting us from afar. and so really my interactions on a weekly basis are with Andrew Pettit and yeah bringing his passion for the club but also his business acumen to it as well.

39:07Polly Bancroft:What have those interactions been like for you? You've got so much legacy in here, you've got so much opportunity on the other side, you're managing other people's money and how that all works and trying to make sure at the bottom of it not too much drops out. Yeah and I don't take that role lightly, you know it's really important that you're right, it's their money and I try to make sure that we get the biggest bang for the buck um you know whether that's in the player recruitment through jamestown analytics or making sure that we're doing the right thing for the community you know the strides that we've been able to make in retail are a key part of that but actually what they've been really open to is ideas about how we can generate more money um so for next season if that's led boards or crm system or we're looking to refurbish some of our hospitality areas because actually i've spotted areas in which we can make a bit more money it might take a little bit in the capex and OPEX, but that means we can go again to again close that gap.

40:00And they've been really open to those ideas.

40:01Polly Bancroft:How do you communicate with the fans? How is that relationship? And I want to get into the value of this to the community, but how's that relationship between the club and its fan base at the moment? I'd say some of the sentiment that we're getting back indicates that we're in a really strong position and that's taken work and commitment to build that trust between the club and the fans. We have one of the Supporter Trust chairs on our board, so fully integrated into the operation of the club and, you know, we'll bring some challenge whether that's around season ticket prices or, you know, match day experience and we'll have those open discussions.

40:38I think one of the key parts we've tried to do is to communicate transparently or as transparent as we can be or some running a private business, but one that's also a community asset to explain some of the decisions. So two years ago, our loss was 1.67 million. And it felt that the narrative was led around that figure without the context and the nuance behind it. This year, we've faced into the figure of the 1.9 million loss to explain, you know, that's been over a 13 month accounting period, why it's at that level, you know, the fact that some of it has been mandated to us by needing to do refurbishment on the ground and in our steel and infrastructure at the ground.

41:23So I think just being able to explain some of the decisions, also some of the rationale for why we needed to increase season ticket prices and match day prices by fronting that up. I did a YouTube video for our fans to just explain that, also avenues through a fans forum. So I think to try and be approachable and explain some of the decisioning rather than just putting it out in a faceless statement um has hopefully

41:48Polly Bancroft:earned us a bit of credibility in the bank before we um came on air we were just talking about the incredible strength and what makes the kind of english football pyramid so special and it was when you were talking about six and a half thousand average at league two getting eight and a half thousand in for some of the biggest games it's so unique to be able to do that across so many different clubs and even as we're saying outside the football league you know fifth and sixth year you'll see incredible attendances too for you looking at that development that communication how do you look at something like we talked about the ground building that you know developing a core piece of infrastructure that holds such deep-rooted role within the community to to then go and you know look at modernizing it changing it updating it basically making it I guess fit for purpose in the right way but keeping those core elements that drive the deep associations that the fans may have with the team I think that's one of the hardest parts of the role is balancing those those different needs across the business or working out what the priorities are so you know some of the infrastructure work has been mandated to us by our safety advisory group so we've had to spend a lot of money on steel to make sure that we can keep the place open, you know, safety is paramount.

43:05So that will always be our number one. Outside of that, you know, we'll work with the Mariners Trust and our supporter groups to listen to what some of the biggest challenges are. I'm also really mindful that it's not always about the bottom line, that we have to do some fun things and we should do some fun things as well. So we've done a couple of TIFOs this year, the Mariners Trust have done a surfer banner and we've had some clapper banners, which I know are slightly divisive to some, but worked really well at the right time to help generate the atmosphere in the runoff or in the business end of the season, if you like.

43:38So, you know, and one of our investors is absolutely brilliant with this. You know, he's really good at reading the room and, you know, working out what the team need. And actually a little bit of spend here and there that might not have a direct return on the balance sheet, but affects the mood and the sentiment can also in the long term pay off too.

43:56Polly Bancroft:To make those decisions, is that part of the key conversation you'll have in a weekly meeting with the ownership? Yeah, exactly that. You know, there are some non-negotiables, you know, if it's steel work, you know, that is a non-negotiable. So that has to be done. Outside of the non-negotiables, it is then a question of prioritization. You know, some might be nice to have, but it's my job to be able to say this is how much investment is required. And this is the return that we'll get over this period of time. so it's putting that business case to them discussing pros and cons you know the owners or some of the investors might have their own ideas from their experience of things that we could look to do together as well so it's is that collaborative approach all hands to the deck really what are the plans with the ground like for those that may not know what are you looking to do again i mentioned you know the infrastructure in some of the clubs is incredible but it is why is one of them i think one of the stands open in 1899 so there's there's elements uh that do need to be addressed but like how are you how are you approaching the ground yeah so in terms of the blundell park so we're eight and a half thousand capacity or operational capacity um we've only sold out twice in the last two seasons or two times this season two times the season before so until we're getting to the point where we're selling out on a regular basis or we might need to look at waiting lists you know at the moment we are the right fit for the size of the stadium You know, if we're fortunate to get promoted next year and, you know, the sale of season ticket goes through the roof, it might be that we like or we are looking at some semi-permanent seating areas, you know, that we have on a season long basis.

45:32We looked at temporary seating for the Man United game, but it just didn't wash its face financially. We'd have had to charge on£150 per ticket when the other price was£29 for a matchday ticket. So it just, it didn't stack up. And we also have to think about the egress and the safety operation as well. So, you know, everything is considered in the round. But if we can add to the capacity and there's the demand there, whether that's on a semi-permanent basis or a permanent basis, we'll always look at it.

46:01Polly Bancroft:What's the, horrible question for you, what's the strategy to sell out every week? Because not only does it build the atmosphere brilliantly, right? if you actually can sell out another 2 ,000 tickets a game seriously moves the dial on the commercial and total revenue lens. Yeah, do you know actually some of this is actually dependent on the opposition as well so I think you know one team brought 64 fans. Really? So you know that does really affect your you know your gate revenue and what you can do on a match day so we can do as much as we can be in the home club but if the opposition's only bringing 65 fans it's very difficult to maximize that.

46:39Other clubs will sell out their allocation, but we are largely dependent on that too. I think what we're trying to do from our own, like the home attendance, if you like, is be strategic about it and recognize that we know that midweek games, we see a drop off. So are there things that we can proactively do to bring in students, shift workers, local community, maybe those that don't travel as far as some on a Saturday or on a weekend to come in. So we're looking at every quarter, every month to be able to see what can we do proactively for each game. At the same time, we don't want to undervalue the price of a season ticket.

47:18So we have to make sure that that balance is right as well. But yeah, we're trying to be as strategic as we can.

47:23Polly Bancroft:That midweek thing comes up all the time with the executives we speak to and the impact of you know the well let's say a tuesday night at 7 30 kickoff is it just we've got kids in here who will have school the next day so you're not going to have the same outings because it's a really hard thing to balance even if you can get as creative and ambitious as possible there are just some kind of fundamental challenges with a schedule that places x number of games in midweek for you to overcome yeah so we see up to a third drop off on a Tuesday night or a midweek game, which is really quite hard for us when a third of our income comes from match day.

47:59Primarily school is, for children under 14s or whatever, it's really difficult for them to come on a school night. So that's a big hit. I think the other challenge that you've got is now with the Sky Deal and some games being more accessible to watch from home, that also affects the away attendance. We've got Gillingham at home on a Tuesday night. I'm not sure how many people are going to make the journey up from Kent all the way up to North East Lincolnshire. So it does impact. Again, if that's where we can be smart in doing some of the focus groups or strategic work to try and make sure we create the atmosphere as well as affecting the bottom line, we will do.

48:39Polly Bancroft:Is it too simple to say if you go up, you'll sell more tickets? I don't think so. I think that's something that we're forecasting and hoping for if that's the case what I'm mindful though is if we go up but perhaps performances don't quite match how we've performed this season we can't bank on perhaps selling out for the whole season through tell me properly we've you know keep touching on it but again something you and I talked about beforehand was the real like proper community value of a football club like Grimsby and what it actually brings and what it means to a place in this country that has a kind of a core sporting asset right at the heart of it because everything that we're really touching on here whether it's you know fans coming in to enjoy it or commercial partners seeing value in sponsoring with it or you know incredible atmospheres like it's all about the as you told me before i think 120 130 000 people that live in and around grimsby yeah yeah our foundation and the community is so important to us and i'm a trustee of our foundation board and i see you know daily weekly the impact that that foundation is having you know whether that's doing healthy eating workshops whether that's engaging with people around mental health I'm so fortunate to be able to see the impact that the foundation has you know we know that in some areas you know we have a better impact in reducing crime than perhaps the police do so it's just it's not lost on us the power of the badge and the opportunity to do good with that and it would be remissive as not to harness that and I see it as it's the way that the club can give back to the community by going into the surrounding areas to engage with them but also opening the doors to Blundell Park so some people who might not you know ordinarily have the opportunity to come into the football club get to experience that.

50:26We just partnered with North East Lincolnshire Council and their fostering family group to enable foster children in foster care to come in and experience football. and what an amazing thing to be able to do and that's just through a simple partnership with the council but you know he's giving back to the community and we're really proud of doing that

50:45Polly Bancroft:I mean I saw you said the generator four million pounds in social value a year um now that you know that money's not recognized on a balance sheet or similar but it's massively influential to a local area is this where we have a potential gap kind of arising between all of this regulation trying to come in and prove sustainability of asset and future security, which of course we all want, versus the broader role that these clubs do play in the community generating really significant social value, but that's coming from a financial perspective as well, that is much harder again to demonstrate on a set of accounts that show how successful or not a club has been.

51:25Yeah, and we actually see some of our commercial partners wanting to work with us or the foundation or both. So they want to capitalize on the reach of the brand, but they're wanting to give back. So one of our partners has just donated some, they've bought some tickets from the club, but they're donating them to schools to reward attendance. So it's a great opportunity for commercial partners to use as well. On the regulator point, I believe the regulator are now talking to the EFL in the community. So from a league level around the impact that football clubs are having to absolutely recognize that point that, you know, yes, we will engage with them around governance and financial flow and sustainability, but actually recognizing that we do more than, you know, operate football matches.

52:11Yeah, so exactly that point. And I think the regulator will start to have a think about how we can incorporate that into their regulation and their regime.

52:18Polly Bancroft:How do you view the introduction of regulator and how that will change also the job of an individual in a club while also looking at the broader system? Yeah, I think if we take a step back and think about why has this come about, and it's really to try and recognize the finances in football and across the industry and how we can safeguard clubs in the future. So if that remains the core aim, then we're a supporter of the regulator. I think at the moment we're looking into areas around governance, and of course we champion good governance. It needs to be proportional to the resources that are available at each club.

52:54you know we have one person in finance one person in HR we don't have an in-house legal team so I think the regulator needs to be cognizant of the the size of and the scale that each club is operating at but they really do need to you know look at the core of the financial flow and distribution of of of funds in collaboration with the Premier League and the EFL and the National league and you know we believe that if there's an opportunity to ring fence funding into infrastructure into services to players into staff development you know that that could really help sustain clubs for the long term so that that's been our um consultation or that's

53:36Polly Bancroft:been the topics of our consultation with them is building a team behind the scenes with the available funds that you have is that actually kind of a hidden challenge you have to face you you say one person in this department, one person in this department, no legal team, I always play again. Content team, we got... Yeah, I've got the content team. Got a media and content team, good. If we're looking at those small ways that are actually hugely influential that can move the dial, more money to be able to do that makes a huge difference to how you can operate as a club. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure.

54:07And I think being able to demonstrate that and show the return that we can have by operating sustainably, as I've alluded to over the last, you know two or three years we we've proved that we can do it whilst keeping a modest player salary budget as well but you know we generated six million in revenue last year we lost the cost was 7.9 so the loss of 1.9 and the majority of that cost is in football so 4.8 of our 7.9 has gone on football expenditure you know just under three million on player salaries a million on football operations you know you travel your accommodation and staff fees those types of things so football isn't cheap to run we're trying to be sustainable in terms of our football finance and our expenditure there but also generate money to to match up so we're trying our best but it would help if we were given a bit more from the regulator from the regulator directly but enabled by the regulator into some of those larger expenses that we see in it to enable us to be more sustainable.

55:11Polly Bancroft:If you can move one dial, what do you see is somewhere where you could really change the business in the short term? I think a training ground to be able to own your own asset of the training ground and to be able to generate revenue from, you know, external parties using that so that becomes a sustainable business in its own right. I think that would be a key driver for us. Is it kind of a strange one though as well where, you know, you're looking at some of that central revenue and we talk about the media deal and you may get better media deals because you get more games on TV. But those games on TV, the extra revenue that you're getting for the games on TV is actually reducing the money that you're getting in the gate receipts, et cetera, because your attendance reduces by a third.

55:52Polly Bancroft:It's not just like, oh, we've upsold a media deal and you're getting more from Central. Isn't that great for everyone? Because there's a really hard relationship to manage throughout all of these different revenue streams. Yeah, well, so we've lost 50K on our streaming because of the EFL deal, but I think we're up 300K. So net 250k. So we're up broadly. What we have to be really mindful is making sure that the match day experience still gets people off the sofa and coming into the gates or into the ground. And I don't know about you, but you can't beat match day for me. An opportunity to get off your phone, get off the laptop, get off the sofa or away from your desk and in and experiencing something live with your family, with your friends and to go through the emotion.

56:38you know for me you can't beat but we need to retain that you know whether that's again making sure that we've got a new audience in that are engaged perhaps primarily through content first and then taking them on the journey so that they come into the stadium and start to experience it there but I think making sure that people are aware of the match day and then experience it and come back is primary for us.

57:02Polly Bancroft:How have you found the development of content as an opportunity to speak to people you know it can be a really exciting one but also a really difficult one yeah find the sorry for saying the word like the authenticity and what you're doing you mentioned the humor i think humor is a really great way to do it and doing something like the the tactics board to announce a lineup you know it's great right it draws people to it but again like a continued content strategy versus one-off opportunities it's the hard thing to do but it's also a great way for you to stand out it's so much fun and what we've what we've been able to do again because of the the brand work that we've done and around our purpose so if you have all of our player announcements for this season have been out done out into the community so we've taken our players you know to the seafront to the pier um to a local windmill to parks you know to show off the town because we're proud to be there and we want to take the players out there to show you know the community and the fans that you know it matters to us as well um another piece of content that we've done in collaboration with lloyd griffith comedian and a grimsby town fan is in collaboration with the EFL is around explaining some of our chants to an American audience.

58:09So we've done three short videos that are on our Instagram, you know, saying, you know, we only sing when we're fishing, that type of thing. Some of the rude versions are available too, but that got us 500k of views. So it's an amazing, you know, alignment and collaboration there between the club, a comedian, the EFL and a US-based audience. So all of those things together, again, is raising the profile of the club, poking a bit of fun at some of our chants, but also raising the profile too.

58:38Polly Bancroft:When you're doing this and you're looking at these kind of moments, these social strategies, how do you see that kind of developing now moving forward? How do you see these international markets who maybe are starting to engage with you through these clips building consistency in their viewership or their attention to you of like the core product not just some of the social channels we're really really fortunate that we had a documentary series just a three-part series that um saw the promotion out of the national league um into the football league called all town aren't we and uh i think it was on prime i don't know if it's still available on prime but it was also featured in airlines as well so when you're on a flight and you can't do anything else.

59:20There was this documentary series about Grimsby Town and that's done an amazing job in terms of increasing awareness. It's also led to new investors as well into the holding company. So it's been brilliant by design, but also a bit of fortuitousness as well. Obviously the EFL have clamped down a little bit on the access and align with the Sky Deal of what you're allowed to show. But I think telling the stories around the people at the club hopefully we've got another promotion to document um coming up as well but i think just showing that behind the scenes content dialing into our sense of humor you know we've been having talks around how do we make our match day experience really unique and this is actually one of lloyd's ideas i think but you know maybe putting fishing nets or like lobster pots on the ground at halftime and getting people to shoot into those dials into our heritage around the fishing industry but also modernizes it at the same time so you know we're always looking for ideas away which we can blend that sense of humour with engaging content for a new audience.

1:00:17Polly Bancroft:Am I right in thinking that, was it in the first season of Welcome to Wrexham when Grimsby went up, they beat Wrexham in the final? Yeah, exactly. I think there was a comment there from, I don't know if it was Rob McElhenney or Ryan Wendell was just saying how much you hated Grimsby for that exact reason. Obviously they've gone on to do it okay, but yeah, hopefully one day we'll get back and play them again. So I want to wrap up by looking properly then well the next week or so but really then understanding what it's like having to plan kind of on both sides of it yeah so we've scenario planned for for league one and for league two i think what's really important is that our recruitment is actually just got one plan so we're looking at players that will fit within our budget but can perform in league one so regardless of what league we're in we'll look to go again and perform again next year so we've already had that you know those discussions that review of our transfer in January or January transfer review looking forward to the summer transfer window so that's already in play we're already activating on that the we're in a real purple patch with our commercials as well so the phone is ringing we've got multiple people interested in the assets that we've got available and you know we're doing new activations with LED boards for next season so regardless of what division we're in we're already looking at making strides on and off the pitch and so hopefully it won't have to be you know significant jump should it be league one from a business perspective but hopefully everything's in hand.

1:01:46Polly Bancroft:Is that something you really want to make sure that you balance out you know it's not getting kind of drunk on the promotion where suddenly fundamental changes happen to the business straight away? Yeah exactly that and you know if we are to be promoted which of course you know we'd love to be and you know everything's behind and we want to sustain that So we don't want to just go up and then come straight back down. So I think being able to be in a position where we're not pushing an envelope, but we're looking at this in a sustained and strategic way, from recruitment to our hospitality offer to our retail, everything is considered and strategic.

1:02:21So we don't have to make big jumps to then have big losses should we get relegated the year after.

1:02:27Polly Bancroft:You have a performance background. So coming into a chief executive position from a performance background is different to quite a lot of others. Does that mean you bridge the dreaded gap between the boardroom and part of the performance? Or have you put in place a team, should we say on a more kind of like technical director side? Yeah, I'd say I'm a sporting chief exec because I do hybrid the two, the football and the business. So I oversaw the review of the transfer window and the strategy for going into the summer. Yeah, we've had some consultants in to work with David on men's first team either from a sporting director role, we work closely with Gareth Jennings who's well known across the football industry and been a key supporter to the owners as they acquired the club.

1:03:17So there's various people that we can tap into but I think it's really important actually that anyone in a chief exec role has an understanding of the football. We are football clubs, football is our primary offer and our biggest property so from my perspective you have to know the football you have to know how how it operates in order to allow the business side to function as well and naturally there are overlaps between commercial and football so trying to get them to to marry up I think is really important

1:03:47Polly Bancroft:did you bring the data kind of driven side of this to the club was it something you really wanted to instill or was it already there yeah so I'd worked obviously at Brighton and seen how they'd integrated the data on the men's side and it was starting to be adopted on the women's side while I was there. The owners had already agreed to work with Jamestown Analytics prior to my arrival at Grimsby but it was certainly a key driver in my reasoning for wanting to join the club. Because it seems like such an influential part of the success that you've had. It's just fascinating that other like you know more and more organisations aren't going down the same I'm sure they will, particularly if this kind of news goes out wide.

1:04:27Polly Bancroft:I'm just fascinated by it because everyone always talks about it. When you were at Brighton and you see that, was it really as kind of impressive and as different an operation on the kind of recruitment side, on the performance side, to what we've seen in other clubs or what you may have seen in other environments? I think my experience at Grimsby is probably closer to it and it cancels out so much of the noise. It's really effective in what it does. It's got a great track history, but it also does blend experience and character assessment into the process as well. So, you know, I've really designed the process around how we can optimize the use of Jamestown analytics at Grimsby Town.

1:05:03So, you know, there is still absolutely a place for the head coach to be involved in the decisions. But if anything were to happen to David and he, you know, gets poached by another club, we've got the processes in place to be able to withstand that. she says fingers crossed and I don't wish anything on David to be to be poached but you know this is the football industry and we have to be prepared for that should it happen and I wouldn't be doing my job properly if if we weren't robust enough to to withstand you know a change right at the top so hopefully those processes and everybody understanding their role and where they fit in has allowed us to maximize the opportunity of the data that comes through from Jamestown to

1:05:43Polly Bancroft:yeah to apply it into the squad and are you can you use that for the women's team as well not yet no um the women's team have just been promoted from tier six into tier five i'm not sure which level jamestown operate on the women's side it probably just the wsl maybe wsl2 or champions league level um but it's not at tier five yet yeah okay well one day one day maybe all the women's team can get out there exactly exactly um you know finally okay we look at the next few weeks you mentioned rising through the leagues you mentioned that for two teams but i also had imagined rising through the leagues could also mean the club continues to go through each step and you know the continual ambition will be to climb as high as you can how do you look at you know these kind of coming years from where you've gone to from where you started to where you want to go to and how you're actually going to put that plan in place to deliver it How do you actually deal with not just the idea, but the execution?

1:06:41I think it all comes down to your key values and, you know, what is the core aspects of a football club. So whether that's around your integrity, you know, thinking about your pride and that real connection between the club and its fan base. So regardless of what happens in the playoffs, you know, whether we make it to Wembley or not or how we finish this season or what happens next season. I think being able to retain those core beliefs and that alignment, which has been so key at Grimsby between myself, the owners, men's and women's head coach, chief operating officer, everybody's on the same hymn sheet.

1:07:18And being able to communicate that effectively with integrity. Of course, we'd like to be in the Premier League. Yeah, of course. Champions League. Why stop at the Premier League? Of course, we'd like to climb all the way to the top. But I think doing it in, you know, the best way that we can, communicating with fans and maintaining that connectivity is the most important thing.

1:07:39Polly Bancroft:Have you loved it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, honestly, I think because I didn't grow up knowing that I could be, you know, running a football club to now be here and seemingly having a bit of success with it on and off the pitch. It's just been a brilliant time to be, you know, part of the club and, you know, really enjoying working with some fantastic staff. You know, we've got a great supporter base. You know, we're one of the biggest supported clubs on the road and at Blundell Park as well. So, yeah, bright future. Plenty to be excited about. Look, we'll be watching, I will be watching both on Sunday and the following Friday, with fingers crossed.

1:08:14Polly Bancroft:But it's been so great to chat through it. Thank you so much, Polly. It's really, really interesting. Thanks, Charlie. We'll count you in as the latest mariner. Please do. All right. Great. Thank you so much to Polly for joining us. Reminder, there is a lot more to English football than the Premier League. We are four tiers down in this conversation today, and we're still talking about crowds of up to 8 ,500 people turning out to support their team. Nowhere in the world do we see this support, and the role clubs like Grimsby play in their communities they serve is irreplaceable. Polly is doing an amazing job, and it was a privilege to hear about it all today.

1:08:49Polly Bancroft:I hope you enjoyed the show. Now, if you want to see more from today's show, you can do so by going to YouTube or any of our other social channels across Instagram and TikTok. there are more snippets to share and bite-sized chunks to consume and whilst you're there please do like subscribe and follow the show as you will hear from your other favorite pods it makes a huge difference when bringing you the best guests and conversations from around the world of sport which is of course our endless aim thank you again for tuning in and we'll see you next week the business of sport is supported by airwallex the intelligent financial platform used by more than 200 000 and modern businesses, from SaaS and marketplaces to some of the most ambitious organisations in sport, including McLaren Racing, Arsenal and the San Francisco Giants.

1:09:31Polly Bancroft:The off-pitch problem is simple. Your supporters, sponsors and partners are everywhere, but the money that connects them is still stuck in slow, expensive systems, wire transfers that take days, fees that quietly eat into revenue and clunky processes that make simple things feel hard. Airwallex gives you one clean way through it. A single platform to open local accounts in key markets, collect payments from supporters in their own currency, CFX in real time, and pay out fast. From backroom staff to agencies and suppliers. If you're growing the business side of a sports organization or any global business with the same problem, Airwallex helps you stop losing time and margin to the legacy banking system and move money at the speed your sport moves.

1:10:12Polly Bancroft:25 years ago, Moneyball revolutionized baseball. Then football sporting directors learned the collect more data lesson. And now, mission accomplished. Clubs have 60 times more information than they did then. But here's what nobody talks about. These clubs aren't meaningfully more successful at player trading. They just have more spreadsheets and departments full of analysts. Gemini Sports is your AI-powered command center that works with your existing info, team, and workflows. It's as intuitive as Spotify. Available everywhere you and your staff need it. Mobile, tablet, desktop, API, from the training pitch to the airport lounge.

1:10:47Polly Bancroft:fully accessible for all tech abilities, fully customized to how your club actually works, and fully focused on winning the transfer market. The Moneyball era taught us to collect information. Now, the AI era is about actually putting that information to use quickly, simply, and easily. Visit geminisports.ai and see the kind of edge you can get when your entire organization is working from the same intelligent, high-powered system. If you're a finance professional, you know the month-end nightmare. chasing down missing receipts and fighting with outdated tools that your employees hate using. It is time to enter the era of Navan.

1:11:22Polly Bancroft:Navan is an AI-powered travel and expense platform that gives you total control and real-time visibility into every dollar spent. The experience is seamless for employees too. They can book a trip in just seven minutes, which is a fraction of the 45-minute industry average. Because the AI handles policy enforcement automatically, you can finally focus on driving business impact instead of manual data entry. See how companies like Canva, Visa, and Stripe are saving up to 15 % on their travel budgets. Visit nevan.com forward slash 20VC right now to get started. And while you're there, you can enter to win two business class flights to anywhere in the continental US.

1:12:01Polly Bancroft:No purchase necessary. Rules apply. Check it out today.