From Selecting Clubs to Signing Deals: Football’s Hidden Partnership | Chris Richards, Crystal Palace & Alan Redmond, Roc Nation (Ep117)

30:20And the fact that they were bringing in De Ligtu at that point as one of the best in the world, perceived to be. I'd have Chris over him any day of the week. But in any case, that was the situation. So there were a few, you know, you're kind of looking for different markers and that was one. Okay, so that then happens. It almost is good for you both, I guess, because it just clarifies your position. You go, right, okay, cool, we're going. Exactly, and sometimes all you need is clarity because very often clubs will try to cling on to assets just in case they need them. But that's no good for a player.

30:49That's a disaster, you know, to kind of sign a contract and just be there, you know, in case of emergency break glass. So then you two heads down together. You're going, right, okay, we know this is happening. You say what you want, the type of move. You'd be really keen to explore the country. You may be keen to go and play and you'll go and act on that. How does it work? I mean, I think it's kind of a combination of both. You know, I had the dream to play in the Premier League, But also it was Alan being like, OK, you need to be a bit realistic. You know, these are the kind of clubs that are coming in for you, you know, whether it's in Germany or in Belgium or Holland, wherever the case was.

31:23And again, it was making sure we found the right fit. So, you know, I had a few phone calls, but ultimately, you know, the conversations that I had with Crystal Palace were the best. They made me feel wanted straight away. You know, some clubs, you'll get on the phone with them and they'll tell you, oh, like we see you in two years breaking into the team. We see you, you know, fighting for a spot with somebody, which I have no problem with competition. But I think it was just the fact that, you know, they made the time to have multiple phone calls with me on top of that. Met me in person on top of that.

31:51You know, I was on the phone with Patrick Vieira within, you know, like a month. And it was really cool. They really made me feel like family straight away from the first phone call, regardless of if I would have signed there or not. And I guess after the experience of buying, the guaranteed playing time, that, well, let's say nothing's guaranteed. but the chance to go and start your career as a starting player in the Premier League it's a huge thing and do you remember the time Atletico Madrid had been in touch and the issue with the Atletico Madrid one it was very much a sideways move from Bayern it was and again to say it seems like he turned down Atletico Madrid but the point of it was was that you were still potentially going to be a rotation player and he needed to go and start your career And also the team which has a fantastic record of developing talent.

32:39Exactly. I mean, I think I knew that a big chance like that would come if I was able to do what I need to do on the pitch. And that was the number one thing is that Alan from day one, he's always told me, you know, I can bring you this and that, but, you know, you're the biggest, you're your biggest cheerleader. You know, you go out there and you do your work on the pitch and then everything else will follow afterwards. And it took him believing in me, but also it took a club like Palace believing in me for me to, again kind of almost prove everybody else right and i knew it from day one but it was showing everybody that you know i can also do this how much you was patrick vieira was manager at that time when you're making that move i always wonder in that discussion point how integral the manager can be to that conversation understanding the environment of football now and the fragility of managers positions because again i'd imagine if you're relying too much on that relationship change happens system change happens suddenly you can look at it and go the move i've made here for the playing time can be completely destabilized yes yeah i think you've got to look at the habits of a club and you've got to look at the stability of a club and certain clubs certain clubs behave like basket cases and so sometimes if they come with a good move for a player you're you're thinking well they go in a different direction and they change sporting director and they change coach quite often so there's a lot of risk involved with palace um I think we felt that they were a showcase for very good young players, no matter who the coach was.

34:10And that while we anticipated Patrick was going to last longer than he did, at the same time, we knew that in recent years, and it's been proven since then as well, the best players, you know, they get their exits. They're also straight shooters as well. I mean, Dougie Friedman, Scottish guy, you know, he doesn't sugarcoat anything. and Vieira also being French, you know, he doesn't sugarcoat anything either. So that's something that I really value in people is that, you know, they just tell me like it is, you know, whether if they think that I'm garbage, so be it. And if they think that I'm good, also amazing, you know, but one way or the other, I'll prove you wrong or right.

34:43When you're going through contracts in this stage and moving, what are the important things in a contract that most people glaze over? Well, you usually have two, let's say, bonus elements. You've got bonuses based on achievements, and then you want to have escalators based on achievements as well. So if the team wins a particular competition, then the players gets a bonus, but then the salary increases in addition to that. Or based on a number of, once the players start at X number of games, you know, he gets a bonus, but the salary increases as well. In terms of... Is that very common to have bonuses and escalators in contracts?

35:24Premier League, yeah, probably, yeah. I think one of the things that is, it depends on the age of the player. So for example, the term of the contract, you know, sometimes you might have a player who's 27 and he's a free agent and he might only want to sign a short-term contract because he might want to be a free agent again in two or three years. So he might want to sign a three-year deal. And so the length of contract sometimes can be, a little bit of a put-off for the player. With a young player, I don't mind a long contract because having been an agent for 14-odd years, you trust the market to some degree.

36:06You know, the best clubs come for the best players. Whether the player has two years left or four years left on his contract, the market does work generally. But what I would say is that I've been at clubs when they've received an email from an agency with these are our players for this window who we think are suitable for your club. And it's got 40 players on it. And that club is probably going to sign three players in the window, maybe five or six. So for me, I think from an agent's perspective, what you want to do is you want to make sure your communications with clubs are relevant and intelligent and not just, again, spam.

36:45So if we have a player who's a wingback rather than specifically a left back or right back, he's really a wingback. we're not going to pitch that player to a club that plays a back four. It's not relevant. And the sporting director will look at the player and go, great player, but we don't play like that. So save yourself that step. And we try to tailor our communications to clubs in a way that shows the clubs we understand them and we get them. And you may in a conversation say, well, look, in case you do switch it up and you go to wing backs next season, we have this player. When you made the move, tell us about from those kind of early stages to now.

37:26You're looking at a team at the moment which you're playing in every week. But at the beginning, when you're starting out on that journey and you're not necessarily going into that team straight away and you've moved to come and play football and you're playing out. I mean, do they play you a bit in midfield, I think, at the beginning? Yeah, well, so once Roy came in, then I started playing in the midfield. Roy Hedges, the sixth. Yeah, I am in the sixth. Well, we'll call it like a five and a half, four and a half. But when I first came here, actually, my first season, my first full season, I think I started four games.

37:50and you know I remember I remember summertime came around and I'm looking out and like did we make the right decision you know and there were a few moves and Palace shut them down we had a few offers to get you out and actually for considerably more than Palace had paid in one specific case what was the most tempting what was the most tempting one I think Union Berlin qualified for the Champions League yeah and that was a good offer and probably like the fact there's a bit of German experience exactly yeah yeah but there were a few I think for different reasons, like Club Bruges is a brilliant trampoline club to go there and play for a season or two.

38:26And they've got a great record of selling players for multiples of what they paid. I think PSV was also... That was a good one. PSV was an attractive one to go and kind of win titles and things like that. But Palace shut it down. And then, true enough to their word, the following season, you became a starting player. When you say Palace shut it down, do they say like, nope? They wouldn't accept it. They wouldn't accept it. But then hopefully that warrants a conversation when you're going, this is why we don't want to accept it. Exactly. you're going to feature exactly and again that was that was dougie kind of coming to me you know he's uh he was the sporting director at the time and you know they kind of had the stigma of just sitting in their office all day long and he actually made the point to come speak to me in person at the training ground or whatever the case was and i was like you know i still see you as a big part of this team regardless of what manager's in you will get your chance like just keep doing what you're doing everybody sees you around here and um again you know dougie's a straight shooter and I learned to trust his word.

39:18And yeah, just like Alan said, you know, a few months later, I was playing every game. And ever since then, I've been in the starting 11. And did you have that moment where, was it one or two performances? Because quite often that happens. You know, suddenly you get a chance. Everyone says, oh, someone's been injured. You played three games. Now you're starting every team. Was there a moment where that happened or was it gradual? Yeah, actually, I remember one of our midfielders pulled out due to a family emergency. and again I started four games the season before and I feel like I played pretty well and I think I did okay but then I think it gave the manager the confidence to put me in when one of our midfielders dropped out and I'm not going to lie I don't think I had the confidence in myself to play midfield at the time because I'd never done it before but I got in there and just kind of did whatever the team needed and it wasn't pretty but that's exactly what the team needed and again it gave the manager more trust and then I think from then on I probably started maybe the last 18 games of the season and I think probably 12 of those are in a position that I never played before but I think everybody knew how hard I was working but also everybody knew how much I wanted to help the team succeed and I think players like that is what every team needs you know sometimes doing the nasty stuff that no it doesn't quite get the praise but just making sure that you do what's possible.

40:36And that is a huge thing for a central defender in the Premier League to just step into midfield and start games in midfield. And again, it goes back to that point I said, where you're not necessarily overly respectful for the architecture of football. You'll just say, okay, I'm going to do that. And you do it. And it's an amazing asset to have. It's really unusual then from some of the experiences you've had seeing this. Yeah. But I mean, players tend to play in a particular position and, you know, City have these chameleons who can play here, there and everywhere. But typically, that's not the way.

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41:49You get real-time visibility that can save your company up to 15 % on your travel budget. It's why industry leaders like Stripe, Figma, Visa and Anthropic rely on Navan every day. Go to navan.com slash 20VC today to see for yourself. You will also get a chance to win two business class flights to anywhere in the continental US. No purchase necessary. Rules apply. Good luck. How do you think about commercial side then? Chris can, I think it's best for him to speak most on this. The only thing I will say is that there are, for globally, for professional football players, there are really only a handful of players who are massive commercial assets.

42:32Like that's the reality. and they tend to be attacking players at teams that win Champions Leagues more often than not league titles in Champions Leagues I think one of the incredible things about Chris is he has really crossed a bridge that people very often people don't see there is a bridge Can I ask, is that true though sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you, is that true on players at only a select few global assets and everyone wants them because you actually see like the segmentation of audiences and like chris it's phenomenal asset given the rise of football in america but then also if you have like african players there might be large african corporates who really want to get behind them australian latam and actually you see the segmentation of geographies no i mean to give you an example if you take and i won't name names but let's say i'll randomly select liverpool they won the league a couple of years ago they won the league title if you went through their starting 11 of the league title almost none of those players are really that commercially valuable there's not many brands going i want to do a deal with that guy they're not hugely in demand whereas when you look at when i said like like palace chris won two trophies and in the last 12 months at palace but they're not winning league titles but chris has had deals with crocs uh he's got a deal with bank of america at the moment he's got a deal with kalanova who make um pop tarts and cheez-its and elicit a group on yeah but as an athlete he has to pass it to me to sound like that's unfortunate my dad's reaping the benefits of that but but what i guess the point i'm making is that chris has got deals with these huge multinationals that are not typical for players outside of psg man city barcelona embarrass him embarrass him why honestly um i don't think i can embarrass this man i'll try as in as in he's just so great i'm sure you you guys in your business you do deals and i'm sure to some degree you back yourself with with this one expression that we all probably use sometimes is if i get in the room i'll get the deal and that very much applies to chris when when people meet him they like want to work with this guy so I joke and sometimes I call him my president like I'm joking but like if he wanted a post career to go into politics he could do it he could do it because the people are with him you know like when he walks into our into what we have some fairly big names who drop into our office occasionally and sometimes people are like oh there's and they greet them or whatever Chris is like a rock star when he comes into our room the staff are so happy to see him and and he's he He doesn't act like a rock star, but he has, he just has it.

45:26He's an amazing communicator. He's got a great look. And he has this foundation of. The look's important though. Of course it is. Yeah, of course. Because if you think about it when you're a kid, you know, who, like, I speak, maybe brands don't look at it in this exact way. But to some degree, it's in the back of their mind, I guess, is who do the kids want to grow up to be like? You know what I mean? And with respect, you know, Peter Beardsley was an amazing player, like when I was a kid, but probably didn't have a great look. So did people want to grow up to be him? Not necessarily want to grow up to play like him.

45:59Whereas I think if you look where in Alabama at the moment, any young soccer player there or in America, not just specifically, or now even in South London, people, young kids see him and they want to grow up to be like him. And I think that's been part of it. And it's not just play like him, but it's speak like him. Walk into a room and have the same impact as him. And I think all of these things coming together have made that. Can I ask, how do you think about authenticity with partnerships? Yeah, I mean, for example, at Calanova, you know, I think. That's a fun one. Yeah, yeah. Like, I think everybody can smile when you think of Calanova, but these are actual products that I grew up in, my family grew up eating and using.

46:37And so for me, it was really easy to get in the room with them because I was like, you know, I had like a neat story about, oh, we used to put ice cream on our Eggos growing up. And they were like, what? like that's it's almost nasty but we like it because it shows that like this is just you and i think one of the things is that when i do um end up working with certain brands they chose me for me no i i think i bring a little bit to the room like alan says you know i just i like being myself and now some people love it some people hate it but it's not going to make me change who i am and so again i think understand that brand that brands chose me for who i am not just for what i bring to the table i think that's what really makes me happy that we're in a moment now as well right looking at it we have we haven't really mentioned it but we have the world cup this summer so this is the whole eyes of of the football world and beyond on the u.s in particular you one of the main players you uh congratulations player of the year right thank you so you know kind of and to your point you know the the position you're probably held in right now the opportunity that you have with the tournament coming there, the rise of football in the States.

47:44This is an amazing time for you to actually look at it and go, yeah, do you know what? Like we can actually really do something cool here. Something that may not have been done before outside of your Landon Donovan or other people. Do you think a little bit like that, capturing that moment? Definitely. I mean, I think, of course, as an athlete, you think this is the moment to kind of change the narrative of the sport back home. And you think of the last World Cup, it was kind of what birthed our MLS, you know? And so we want to be able to to leave a platform where we can do something even bigger than that.

48:13And hopefully it's by winning. But if not, it's about inspiring the next generation to do better than us. And and that's just the on the field stuff. I think off the field, you think of, OK, this is the chance for myself to be in front of six billion eyes, you know, and it's it can sound kind of nerve wracking. But at the end of the day, it's a chance to, you know, do the hard work now so that, you know, My kind of name is always in people's mouths when they think of U.S. soccer, when they think of U.S. products, when they think of things like that. So I also understand that I'm representing more than myself.

48:47I'm representing my family. I'm representing my hometown. I'm also representing every kid that's going to come up after me. If people think about American footballers and they think of the next generation, and maybe they're a little bit like myself. Maybe they're a little bit like Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey, those kind of guys. And so I think I'm understanding that it's more than just the current batch of guys now. That's what's coming afterwards. It's actually a really good point. I haven't really thought about. For a top US sports person to have that proper global reach. You know, there's so many sports in the US, basketball, NFL, hockey, amazing, massive sports dominated by domestic eyeballs.

49:22Yeah. Football, soccer, global game, global stars coming home and bringing that in. And therefore, it actually puts you in a very different bracket to some of the other relationships I'd imagine some of these companies have, some of the fans have with their athletes. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of US brands are starting to learn that now is that, you know, this is so much more than just MLS. It's so much more than just, you know, CONCACAF. It's global, you know, and it's something that, you know, parts of the world that you've never touched before or parts of what you probably haven't even heard of before are going to be watching this game.

49:55And so this is your chance to also get your name out there, get your brand out there, get your values out there. And so I think this is why the game, or at least on the commercial side, is really growing right now in the US. One thing probably worth saying as well is the A word, authenticity, which is, I'm sure we've all sat in meetings where that's been used 18 times and none of us can see a hint of it anywhere in the room. Along with alignment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in terms of authenticity, I think, to prove the point almost, Chris has invested in a team in his hometown. And so within the, he's somebody from Hoover in Alabama who is playing in the Premier League, is playing for his national team, is captain of his national team, current player of the year for his national team, has won significant trophies in the past year for Palace and is going into the World Cup as one of his country's best players but he's actually investing in the game and I think that that has it's another string to his bow really and it shows that he's not he's more than a player let's say which I think is probably another attractive thing for brands the concept that he is more than a player he's a voice within the sport and he's trying to develop the sport locally where he is and like Chris where would you say soccer is in terms of let's say that the rankings of sports in Alabama oh man probably a long way distant yeah it'd be it'd be very far down but again like like what Alan mentioned you know I even opened or me or myself U.S.

51:34soccer and FIFA opened a pitch in downtown downtown Birmingham where I'm from and again this is something that's never been done before and I think when people think of Alabama they generally think of American football and college football and things like that. But, you know, I want to help, like I said, change the stigma, change the narrative around my hometown. And it's my chance to do my part in bringing more awareness to this beautiful sport that we all love to my hometown where it's not really ever spoken about or talked about or even seen. Soccer in the US, football in the US has been on an upward trajectory.

52:06People can often pin a lot of hope, right? And a lot of focus on a World Cup as like the moment. But in reality, quite often, it's just another one of those steps and you have to really make sure or the when is there you capitalize on it? How is that feeling been within the country? And how is it right now as we're getting closer and closer to this to ensure that this is the event that you want it to be? Yeah. I mean, I think there's this kind of cliche that say that pressure builds diamonds. And I think that pressure is good. It's good to wake up in the morning feeling nervous about what you're going to do today because it shows that you're doing something that really matters.

52:41And I think for me and my teammates as well, You know, we understand that this World Cup is a huge moment in kind of the future of the sport in the U.S., but also we didn't just wake up one day and get here. It took years to get to this point. We understand that there's going to be a World Cup after this one, and we understand that it's going to be games after this one. But it's trying to make sure that when we go out there on this pitch this summer, that we show the world that, you know, we have been prepared for this over multiple years. It's exciting. It's super exciting. We're trying not to put too much pressure on ourselves, but we do know that this is a chance for this sport to really blow up back home.

53:17How's Mauricio Pochettino been? Yeah, he's been good. He's brought this kind of South American passion, flair that maybe we were missing. And I think if you watch the games, he's very animated, but I think it translates onto us on the pitch. And when you have somebody like that on the sideline who's so well-respected globally, again, it even brings more eyes to the sport. We probably have a lot more Latin American viewers than we would have normally had. So it's been good all around. I think US soccer did their due diligence when it came to hiring him and understanding that he is a big name, but also he's somebody who's very passionate about the sport and also has the same values as us, which is to grow the sport.

53:54How do you look to build those relationships? He's come in not after years of, you're going to this World Cup, not with years of experience with him managing you. So I'd imagine the time you have together is really important. But also, what's the type of work as an international manager that goes into when you're not together? Is it a constant communication, particularly building up to something like this? Yeah, I think yes and no when it comes to the communication because he was a club coach He understands that now if you're bombarded by both coaches the club and country at the same time that it can get a bit confusing but No, I think the time that we do have within these international windows We do typically spend a lot of time with each other.

54:27No, not just coaches or not just players, but also coaches and They're actually fun guys to be around, you know I think when people look at coaches and players sometimes it's like I get out of my face but the fact that we don't see them every day makes it a little bit less like I can't stand this guy, you know? So it's good to be around these people because they do bring something that, you know, we didn't have for years, but also it's a learning experience for everybody. You know, there's a reason why he was a coach at the top level. There's a reason he's a player at the top level. And if you can pick the 1 % from this coaching staff and add it to your game and help translate it to the players around you, then I think ultimately as players and as a national team, we'll have grown from it.

55:02And I think with a World Cup as well, it's just a different dynamic from league football. You go into a World Cup and I think the spirit in the camp, which is sometimes over a league, over a Premier League season, the spirit in the camp probably goes only so far because quality kicks in in the end. I think in the World Cup, the spirit in the camp is huge. How you prepare for each opponent is huge. And I think that's something where he's going to be excellent. Him and his team are going to be great at preparing the team for the opponents. And then beyond that, it's just each player stepping up in the big moments, which I think you've got some big personalities in there.

55:33I'm very excited. I'm very excited for every World Cup, I won't lie. But I'm excited for this World Cup because I think Chris is going to go into it as one of the key players in the US. And I think people in the US, when it's a home World Cup, they will have certain expectations, but I do think there's enough characters in there to actually deliver and get you through to the knockout stages. From the knockout stages onwards, who knows? Well, I think CBS or someone did a 50 people that are going to influence this World Cup. You were number 16. There we go. so yeah it's a you know there's a lot of that expectation definitely do you guys have a conversation where like hey this is a window where we can absolutely optimize for brands partnerships because of the nature of the world cup or is it like no focus on performance no you you don't lose sight of the fact that performance is let's say everything but then you have dessert after a good meal sometimes you know and let's say the dessert is the is the commercial opportunities that come with it.

56:38And again, as Chris said, nobody just left them outside his door. He's earned them. Yeah. And I think that it makes sense to maximize that. It does. Speaking of earning them, trying to feed it naturally, but also fans will kill us if we don't talk about it. Go on, indulge us. You've put yourself in a position now at a perfect time. As you've had two trophies recently, the FA Cup last season, incredible. You see anyone watching football, supported football unless you're a man city fan you know was so excited to see you guys win that game you then go and win the community shield you're now in europe yep looking hopefully fingers crossed like you could win that competition as well how was it it was amazing i mean of course winning trophies is always nice and winning accolades is always nice but i think for what those wins did for the community of south london uh that was the most beautiful part of it you know I think you would look up in the stands and see grown men crying.

57:36You'd see families huddled together, hugging each other. And I think that was the most beautiful thing. I think watching the BBC playback and hearing the audio and seeing the camera shaking and just seeing all the emotions from everybody in the stands, it was beautiful. I mean, even to this day, I'll get in a black cab and the taxi driver will be like, oh, thank you for what you've done for South London. Like it's just to this day, I still feel what we did last summer and what we're continuing to do. And we're thinking about, oh, we just want to win games. But it's so much more than that. It's a community.

58:10It's a it's a club. It's a family that, you know, has not felt that kind of happiness for hundreds of years. And now we were able to do it in strike gold. It was it was beautiful. Do you feel it's changed expectation? It's always, you know, the challenge with success, isn't it? It's like, you know, you do something exceptional far beyond what people expected originally. now they expect like more they want they want to feel that again yeah I mean we expected that from ourselves from day one you know I think especially with with Glasner coming in you know he's very ambitious I think that Austrian German mentality is like we have to win everything and it's exactly what we needed at that point in time and um he came in saying you know Palace have this stigma of being a mid-table team we want to win trophies now and that's exactly what we did and you know going into this season, we were like, OK, we want to win the Conference League.

58:59We want to win the FA Cup. We want to win the League Cup. We want to know. Well, of course, when I win the Premier League, well, if not, we want to qualify for Europe without having to win a trophy. And of course, you know, I think there's a tighter race at the top than where we're at right now, but we still very much have a chance to qualify for Europe through our league play. On top of that, we're still in the Conference League. Sadly, not in the FA Cup, but regardless, you know, we still have the chance to win silverware this year. what's it like in the dressing room before then so you know you're going to a pickup final you're going as pep guardia the man city side you've been talking about this in a way where it's an expectation as you said from a manager it's not from other people being outside going we're surprised yeah to see you here when you're actually in that moment before you go on pitch is it like shit or is it how does it how does it really work to gee you up to take away any of the nerves if I think there's such a high performance I think Charlie I think the craziest part about uh being in the changing room before the FA Cup final was that nobody was nervous you know we went in there as the underdog I think deservedly and also they beat us 5-2 maybe three weeks before but it was almost like we knew that going into that game they would be a lot more confident because they had just beat us a few weeks before.

1:00:18So we knew if we go in there and do exactly what we had done all season long, which is make it terrible to play against us, that we would get a result. And like I said, I remember walking out on the pitch and seeing the TIFO, seeing the fireworks, seeing everything that was going on there. And I was like, this is just another day. And I'll probably be more nervous for the game on the weekend than I was for the FA Cup final. But I think it was just because we all knew that this was our chance to change South London, change Crystal Palace forever. I think it was, yeah, it's kind of like a juxtaposition, but it really was the least nervous I think I've ever been for a game.

1:00:58I've been at World Cups, I've been at Champions League finals and Premier League stadiums the day that title's been won on the last day. And honestly, it's one of the most amazing experiences we've been at Wembley the day the FA Cup win. It was incredible. and you touched upon grown men crying and they were all around me. I was probably one of them. Definitely tears welled up. I can't say I bawled but there were tears. But it wasn't just that it was the odd person. It was such an emotional experience and everyone was just hugging each other when the final whistle went. And I think when the injury time board went up we were like, oh God, they're going to get something here.

1:01:37And wasn't there a missed penalty? Yeah. Well, we did. he kind of touched the ball outside of the other box and we were like, oh, no. We just figured it was going to go City's way. Everyone, I think, was anticipating that outcome. The big bully is going to come along and nick it in the end type of thing. And... You mean Holland. And his friends. But it was such a release. Yeah, a lot of stuff happened. Yeah, but that's... This is where they get back into it. and then they didn't score like oh yeah so it was so like it was uh and again i look at the cliche what a roller coaster but then when the release and the joy at the end of it people were like kind of almost dropping to their knees and just everyone just hugging each other that was the thing with holland didn't take the penalty yeah exactly yeah i mean you must have been on the pitch like yeah maybe he knows something about that because i remember it at times like everyone at home is going what yeah it was is he a beast to play against yeah he's a he's a big lad to be fair and he can move he can very much move i mean i think uh how do you prep for playing against him just trying to minimize i think the thing about him is that he has players around him that always find him and i think he's so smart with his off the ball movement that you know you kind of he kind of seems like he's not even playing and then like he's like chatting with you for a little bit kind of make you your friend and then one second he switches on and is gone and you're like come on like i thought we were friends you know but when you think they're chatting that is like did you watch homeland on the weekend yeah but like like yo how are you doing this and that and you're like oh cool oh this guy's a nice guy and he's like oh no he's like i love alabama exactly if you went into a laboratory to create a striker you would probably come out with holland yeah he is many things but he is not the 2025 fa cup winner

1:03:35You can't say that. You talked about the challenge of managers when they come in, when Glasner comes in and he puts that mentality in. Is it as simple as going right now, we believe? I remember looking around the changing room and seeing guys who were playing for their national team, who were starting for their national team in high levels. So we had two Colombians, we had English internationals, we have Japanese international and French internationals. And we're like, OK, we aren't like we aren't mugs, you know, like we're good players playing for our national teams, you know. And so he can say that and we could have walked to that meeting and been like, oh, you know, he's he's just he's just talking, you know.

1:04:17But like I remember looking around and we're like, you know, this is actually a team that can that can do it, you know. And of course, maybe it took him saying that for us to ultimately believe. But every game, he's like, I don't care who we're playing. I don't care where we're playing. I don't care who is injured or isn't injured. We're going to go out there and give this team 90 minutes of hell, and we're going to try to win the game. And I think that's something that we really bought into from day one of him. I think with Palace, maybe in the past, they had relied on Wilfred Zaha maybe. You know what I mean?

1:04:52They were there, thereabouts. I think a lot of people who support other teams who were not rivals, direct rivals of Palace, I think a lot of people have a sympathy for Palace because there is something great about the club and the atmosphere is phenomenal. I mean, I'm with Chelsea fans. I like Palace. Yeah, yeah. Sounds weird to say that. No, but I think that's common. And as the experience actually of going there, it's quite unusual away fans sit on the side. Normally, you know, you're behind the goal and even that, just having that kind of different type of experience in the stadium, I think it was the, you know, in whatever the decibel test is that they do, like the loudest stadium.

1:05:27You feel that. That wasn't Chelsea. It's not hard. But yeah, you really feel that. It comes through. My point is, I guess it comes through every touch point that you have, whether it's an away fan, a home fan, a player. It seems like a special place to be. Definitely. I mean, I think it being one of the oldest stadiums in the league, I think you feel the history, but then also you feel the passion of the fans. I think, again, it is a smaller stadium, so you hear every person chanting, you hear every person booing, you hear every person just interacting with each other. And, again, I think that's what makes Selhurst beautiful.

1:06:04But I think it's also one of the things that makes Palace beautiful is that they speak about being a family club, and I know a lot of clubs do speak about it. But I think from the staff to the fans to the players, I think everybody's involved, and I think it starts at Selhurst, being able to hear everybody and that's what makes it so special are you ready for a fun one we've interviewed so many owners and they're always like oh we like to invest in the training ground and like it really attracts great talent rank one through three on what will attract you to a club salary yeah sat sat no i'm joking training around like facilities and then manager salary training ground manager one through three one being most i would say manager salary then training ground wow yeah i think of course you don't want to necessarily put all your eggs in one basket when it comes to a manager because you know that they are you know they can be sacked whatever the case is but i think the manager is the one person that really makes your time enjoyable at a club um now when you're when you're playing it's beautiful when you're not playing it's not so beautiful and ultimately it comes down to the manager's decision and um so like i said like when i remember getting on the phone with viera and um even when i first got to palace i wasn't necessarily playing he was still speaking to me like making me feel like no i was seen and i think without those interactions i probably would have begged alan to get me out of palace you know pretty soon but um even at hoffenheim you know my uh my coach hoffenheim sebastian hennes he was my Under-19s coach at Bayern and under 21s coach at Bayern.

1:07:40So I already had that That relationship with him and he made my time at Hoffman so enjoyable So I think number one would definitely be would definitely a manager who's the best player you've played with who's not Obviously like the star. Yeah, it's like dirt count just like put in more yards than fucking anyone Who's the like Trojan horse you like that by your team was was pretty That's really happy. Not that he's underrated at all, but playing with Thiago, I think he didn't hit quite his form when he went to Liverpool. But when he was at Bayern, I've never seen a player like that, not just as a player, but also as a person.

1:08:19You know, he spoke, you know, English, German, Portuguese, Spanish, spoke a little bit of French. Like, he's a guy who really kept the changing room together. But also on top of that, he led by his actions on the pitch as well. And even when I came from Bayern to Palace and he went to Liverpool, I remember being in the tunnel before the game and I hadn't spoken to him. I was a youth player at Bayern, so he could have easily been like, I don't know who you are. And he came up to me before I even saw him and gave me a hug. He's like, oh, good to see you. Let's chat afterwards, this and that. And I think something like that is something like it's an interaction that will always live with you.

1:08:55And he's a person that you'll always remember because of who he was as a person rather than a player. It's the smooth things, right? Exactly. It very much is. He's still got it. He played in that senior game at Liverpool the other week and the ball is still glued to his foot. He also loves paddle. Yeah. Plays paddle all the time. Are we going to do a quickfire? You can. I have so many good quickfire ones. Okay. This is for both of you and I think this will be an interesting one and you can choose who goes first. Which brand do you not work with today that you would most like to work with? And you'll both have a different answer, I imagine.

1:09:30Which brand do I want to work with? this is very what do you want Chris to work with oh sorry for Chris to work I was going to say and you as well it's a bit of stretch here Calvin Klein you know okay the people of Flavins Porridge in Ireland I love your product so much come on at least send me a free taxi obviously you're the talent no no for Chris that's a good question I would say fashion something more on the fashion side that because I think that's look at him but but i think that that's probably the let's say a missing piece at the moment for me i would say i don't i don't want to pinpoint a brand but i think maybe something revolving like hair like i think like again like after games fans will be oh like can i touch your hair or like even like people back home like oh like the afro is such a a cool thing and even like i like a mini figurine that the National Team Players Association is selling and it has an afro on it.

1:10:32Like I think - Like a bubble hat. Yeah, like almost, you know? I have a bubble hat. I think it's cool because, of course, this is just naturally how my hair grew, but I think it's cool because it is like, when I'm on the pitch, like my grandma, who can't see as well as she used to, she's like, oh, like there's Chris right there, you know? I think it's just something really cool and really kind of my, like, it's my look, you know? So we're not going to see you in the World Cup walk out with it braided or something? I don't think you will, no. That's not the plan. It doesn't just suddenly go, I'm going to change my image.

1:10:59The plan is to keep the afro, yeah. Interesting. Which is the best stadium you've ever played in? Let's go Madrid Stadium was their brand new stadium is amazing. Is that why? Oh man, we played them in Champions League when I was at Bayern and it was during COVID so there were no fans, but it felt like a museum. Like it was massive, massive, massive. Just beautiful stadium. What does everyone get wrong about football agents when they think about the agent relationship? I think they miss all the bits in the middle. So I think you look at transfers as being the key thing, which they're very important.

1:11:38Sometimes renewals are just as important as a transfer. When things are going well, when the player's progressing, a renewal is important. But also, it's again dehumanizing the whole sport and just looking upon it as it is a series of transactions and greed. And it isn't. There's a lot of love in it. And we do it because we love it, not because we love cash. How many players, we also love cash. Yeah, we like both. Yeah, we can find them. How many players do you actually work with yourself? So core group of about 40 players. 40? Yeah, and then we have an office in Brazil, so they have about another 100-odd players there.

1:12:22But in terms of players who I'm doing transfers for and renewals for, yeah, around about 40. What do you do with your spare time? I play with my daughter a lot. That takes up a lot of time. How old is she? She's 16 months now. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What does no one know about being a parent that they should know? Oof. What? Get the sleep. No, I'm in. Yeah, I think that it definitely takes a village. You know, there's that saying, but it's so true. Being far away from my family, I've very much learned that it takes more than just the parents, that it takes the people around to also help. What was the biggest shock when you went from US to Germany?

1:13:03Other than the Autobahn, I would probably say just how regimented German people are. I think sometimes you can get away with being one minute late back home, two minutes late, or being fashionably late per se. But in Germany, it was very much like if you're not 10 minutes early, you're already late. So I'd probably say just pretty much how disciplined they are. Is that the kind of thing? Are you the type of person where you go, right, okay, I made that mistake or learned that once, then I don't do it again? Oh, yeah. Usually I'm like 30 minutes early to wherever I need to be. And no, my girlfriend, she doesn't like that.

1:13:33My dad doesn't like it either. My mom doesn't like it. But I'm like, if I have to be somewhere at 2 p.m., like I'm out the door by 1.30, you know? So you're not one of these people that turns up 45 minutes before a flight no no that stresses me out at least two hours sometimes two and a half hours before yeah much more enjoy exactly which manager have you not played for that you would love to play for um i would have loved to have played for klopp uh again i love that kind of german austrian mentality um and you can see that he was very passionate and that he loved the players that he coached.

1:14:08What was the game you were most nervous before playing? I think I would say the first time I ever played Mexico with the national team. I'd be scared. Yeah, it was. Was it away? No, it was home. But every time you play Mexico at home, it feels like away because there are so many like Mexican immigrants that live in America. And it was, every time I play Mexico, it's between 50 to probably 75, 80 ,000 fans. And again, And a majority of them are Mexican fans. And it was just because we have such a long history with playing them with the national team. And especially this kind of generation that we're in now, we've pretty much always beat them.

1:14:49And it's a big rivalry on the pitch. And there's always scraps. There's always scraps in the stands. And it's fun. But it's also your first time playing them, you're like, oh, my gosh, this is the game. In the U.S. with the different cities hosting the games, which ones are there some? where you go, that's going to be intense. And somewhere you go, that would be a little more gentle, a little nicer experience. I think games in Houston are going to be tough. Of course, it's in the middle of summer in Houston, which will probably get up to like 45 degrees. There's an exaggeration, but it'll be hot.

1:15:23It'll be very hot. Even though they're playing indoors, they'll definitely feel it. Again, I think LA also will be that way. I think just because of how culturally hot LA is, I think there'll be people from all walks of life there. I think there'll also be a huge one. Mexicans again. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. But Houston, Houston is a different beast. You can win the FA Cup or the Europa League. Conference League, yeah. I think FA Cup, you know. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I think it was just the fact that, you know, we were... I think it wasn't just because we beat City, but I think it was the fact that, you know, we were the best team in England at that point, you know?

1:16:06And it was, okay, I think it was just what it did for this community. I would redo that. Of all strikers to come up against, which are you most like, oh, no. I will say, honestly, I think one of the toughest ones I've ever played against was Mikel Antonio. We played them in World Cup qualifiers in Jamaica. and okay look at me now and think of me maybe like 15 20 pounds lighter going up against a full strength full health michael antonio he bullied me he bullied me um that's i think him or it's funny now to see him uh doing well with sunderland but brian brubby i remember playing him when i was uh in the academy at byron and he was playing for ajax the exact same size that he is now yeah and he was like come on we're gonna go for a walk just have my shirt the whole time and he was he's been that size since he was probably like 16 years I watched him play as an under 15 at the Marvel tournament in Netherlands and he was the same size yes the guts of two feet taller than the kids it's like the photos of the young Lukaku exactly he was in the youth team exactly like I give up yeah but he was very good yeah sometimes it's just a physical advantage he was good as well I think at that point in my career I was still playing minutes here and there for Bayern and so I hadn't necessarily you know got my foot into grown men football yet and um I remember that game being like oh my gosh like this is like this is another level not necessarily because he was super techie or because he was no whatever the case was but it was just the fact that he knew exactly how to play the game he knew exactly where he wanted to be he knew exactly where he wanted to go.

1:17:51I think that was definitely a moment where I was like, wow. I think it's one of the great things about the Premier League is that for a defender like Chris, one week he has Mohamed Salah running at him, leaning one way, going the other. He's up against Haaland the following week, and you're just up against some of the best in the world on such a regular basis that it's an amazing experience, and I think it's why so many players everywhere. I travel a lot for work and everywhere I go, every player wants to get into the Premier League. Guys, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for doing it and I've loved having you on.

1:18:27Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Now, I'm sure you agree that was something completely different. Hard to do when many of the conversations are rooted in similar topics, but having a double-sided view on what the world of player and agent looks like together is a pretty special access. I'm so grateful to Chris and Alan for coming on to join us and I hope you enjoyed the show. now if you want to see more from today's show you can do so by going to youtube or any of our other social channels across instagram and tiktok there are some more snippets to share and bite-sized chunks to consume and whilst you're there please do like subscribe and follow the show as you'll hear from your other favorite pods it makes a huge difference when bringing you the best guests and conversations from the world of sport which is of course our endless aim thank you again for tuning in and we'll see you next week the business of sport is supported by airwallex the intelligent financial platform used by more than 200 ,000 modern businesses, from SaaS and marketplaces to some of the most ambitious organisations in sport, including McLaren Racing, Arsenal and the San Francisco Giants.

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