Guenther Steiner: ‘A Life in F1: Moving On From Haas, Christian Horner’s Sacking, & The Genius of Verstappen' (Ep77)

26:17I think that's all a little bit just trying to find almost an excuse for why is Max so successful. Max is so successful because he is so bloody good. and you can put him in anywhere. He always will get the maximum out of whatever he has got, you know, and you can see with his car, sometimes it is not good enough even if he tries and sometimes when he makes a mistake because he's so much on the edge, the guy, you know, with this car, which nobody else can be driving and all the other guys, they try to do what Max is doing with the car and fail at that because they overdrive it or they cannot get up to speed because Max can get that car because it's on a knife edge and he can keep it on the knife edge, but he is struggling.

26:57And I just say, for me in the moment, he's so talented. So he's better than anybody else there and he puts a lot more effort in as well. He's in a simulator. He just works hard. Is Matt the most naturally talented driver on the grid today? Yes, in my opinion, yes. And in addition to that one, he also works hardest of all of them in simulator driving. Because if you see in his free time, he's driving GT cars. I mean, you know, which other driver is doing that? would he have been able to get Haas on the podium? No. So it is not under normal circumstances. You know, on a rain race or something like this could have been, so I shouldn't be this adamant, no.

27:35But on normal circumstances, on a dry racetrack, no. So there's a limit. Even the best drivers, there's a limit. Yeah. For me, it's always like this. I say the worst driver now. There is no really bad driver in the moment in Formula 1. So the worst is not derogative. The worst driver can win a race with the best car, but the best driver cannot win a race with the worst car. Put it this way. So that puts in perspective how important the car is. Does this not just challenge the fundamental entertainment value and quality of the sport if the predictability is so high? The point of a sport is that people can win.

28:10You don't know the outcome. It's unexpected. When it's like, oh, well, even the best driver couldn't get there, I can guarantee you that. and we know the three teams that will be on the podium, does that not remove the value of sport and entertainment? No, I see it different, but it shouldn't be a lottery. A sporting event shouldn't be a lottery. The best people do the best job. It's nothing different than any other sport, a ball sport, a football team, because an F1 team doesn't exist only of the driver and the race engineer. and it is hundreds of people, almost 1 ,000 people, develop a car. That's your team.

28:50And if they do a good job, they will be best. So I think that what happens, it doesn't undervalue it. It is reality. You know, the best team will be going to win. We just need to understand that it's not only the driver out there which has to win because you've got other motorsports with single-make cars, you know, and there the driver obviously has got a bigger play in it. But single-make is not as interesting as Formula 1. Formula One is there is a team and the best man should win. It's nothing else than in football. If you, the manager, are good at getting the 11 best players together, then you should dominate it.

29:24But it happens in football that a football team dominates for a long time and then it changes again because you've got the best people there. So I think in that thing, F1 is very good. And then I would agree with you because maybe a few years ago when the budgets were so much different and the money plays a role in it, you know. But now with the budget cup in place, if you look at it, you've got 10 different teams. And in qualifying, they are not even a second between them. Think about that one. Over a minute and, I say, a minute and 20 second lap. Different drivers, different cars. And you're so close together.

29:58The distance is nothing what you do. And that shows how competitive it is. It's just a competitive sport. And if you do the best job, you should be able to win and dominate. You know, it's nothing different than in any other sport which is not regulated. I want to talk about the proper business of running the teams. And just before we start it, on exactly that point, can you just explain why the cost cap was so important? What it actually meant for the 10 teams on the grid? I can make very quick because normally, you know, the big teams had about six, seven, eight times the budget of the smallest team.

30:32The smallest teams never had the chance to win anything, never had the chance to make any money. So guess what happened? The investor or the owner either runs out of money or runs out of passion because being always last and losing shitloads of money, why would you do it? You know, the cost cap came in, put everybody on a level playing field. The field came closer together. Everybody's got a better chance. It's still a two-tier sport, I would say. You've got four big teams, as we call them. But the other six are very close together. You don't know who is going to be number five in the championship.

31:04And at some stage, number five will go into the top four. You know, we just need to wait a little bit. But it has made it very competitive. If the cross-cup would have not arrived, all this growth in the sport wouldn't have happened. The value of the sport and the teams wouldn't have happened. Because who wants a team which is losing 200 million, 300 million a year and is last? Nobody wants to be involved with that one. So that put it all together. And what happened as well, it made the championship a lot more competitive. With that in mind, can you explain the different business lines and functions of the teams, how you're making money here?

31:39We're looking primarily at commercial. Is that core income when it's independent as in not the money you're receiving centrally through Formula One? I think they're both very important. You can make a bigger difference. Actually, you cannot commercially with sponsorship. You can make a difference. But obviously, if you're competing successfully, you've got a better chance to get a good sponsor. It's normal. If you're number one, you're more on TV, you've got more exposure, you can ask higher dollar amounts. So if you're good in the sport, if you're competition-wise, you have a bigger chance to get more sponsors.

32:14But also you get more money from Central, as you called it, from the promoter. What would you go to market with when you were at the team for a title sponsorship? How do you value it? I mean, there is a lot of data there. It's all data-driven, how much exposure you've got, what your assets are, what you can bring them. And then sometimes like in all this stuff, like in investment, you look at a lot of sponsors come in and say, I do a five-year plan. In the moment, I buy cheap. And hopefully the team, they see the vision that you go up and you get more for your back then because you invested at the front end for a lower price.

32:50Because some of the sponsors, they go in big in a small team instead of going in small in a big team. because with the view of it, in a few years, the small team will have more success and they will get more exposure. What was the biggest title sponsor you signed? MoneyGum. How much did they pay? I cannot tell you. Well, that do ask. Worth a try. It's always worth a try. It's always worth a try. Never be shy, you know. No, I'm not. I know the state, by the way. But when you sign those deals, are they then influencing how much you will spend that season? or have you already got that? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

33:28It's a combination. You need a budget. You need a certain amount of money. You put your budget and then you try to find the money. But, you know, in racing or like in any other business, in any other sport business, you go different ways. And obviously it helps if you have got good sponsors because if you then have more money, you can go and try to get a better driver or you can go and, you know, invest in the team more and things like this. What happened with Rich Energy? The director, owner, I don't know what you would call him. He had a good plan to do things. He found the money to sponsor Haas.

34:02They paid the initial money. And then mid of the season, they had no money anymore. Then rich energy became poor energy. You know, that was the period. But I think one of the biggest issues there was, I think it worked for them because they got a lot of attention because of the sponsorship. But there was never a product out there that they sold. But what do you do when you lose a sponsor midway through season? and do you just have lost revenue, or do you replace them? How does that work? You try to replace it, and normally at that time, the owner needs to come in and replace it, but it's never good, you know, because the owner never gives you one-to-one.

34:33You need to then try to cut your cloth accordingly, you know? And you still, but you still, you at least still got some of the money out of it, so you weren't completely... No, no, no. We got whatever, what they paid for, they got back as well, until we took it off. I mean, that was a clear deal with them, you know? If you don't make the payment going forward, you will be off the car, and we were very, you know, strict with that one you seem quite calm talking about it now but i'd imagine when that does happen there's a lot of concern and uncertainty around what it means for the whole organization a lot of uncertainty that's more than concern because in the end you need to keep on your uh with your business going and you need to find ways but the uncertainty is a tab because obviously you're not being told like now sitting here calmly yeah i don't have the money you're told no the money's coming next week it's stuck in the bank it's you know you can imagine all the all the bullshit i hear you know where the money is and at some stage you just need to get your experience and say this is all bs you know i mean there's nothing coming i mean uh we have to rip the band-aid off you know and you said when you know when you had the yorkali deal you said that he was very dimitri was very good at least with the original terms and that was very effective and efficient it It obviously meant that you had a driver, his son, come into the car, but it also happened at a time where that money was really important to you.

35:52How do you evaluate and balance those two where the money is so important to the team, but it comes where obviously one of your driver's seats is filled? I think sometimes you have to do things. If you're a beggar, you're not a chooser, you know. And in the end, you have to do the best for the team to keep on going. It was a tough time. And I must say, Dimitri Masipin, you know, he always held up his bargain. You know, when the guy told you something, he made it happen. I mean, business-wise, I have not one but worth to say about that guy. Obviously, you know, it wasn't his fault that there was an invasion.

36:28And then we had to cut our ties with Yurag Ali because it was not sustainable, you know. But otherwise, the guy, business-wise, was very good, was very correct. Claire mentioned the selling of race seats, or if we want to call it and be that obvious about it, the selling of race seats becoming more of a situation in Formula 1. Has that changed now based on the overall success of Formula 1 collective product? Completely. In the old days, it was sometimes necessary. Now it's not needed anymore. None of the teams needs it. Because I would say 80, 90 % of the teams are actually cash profitable. You know, so why would you sell a seat?

37:07What you try to do to try to get the best driver that you get the best payout from your performance, from central money, from the promoter. That is now more worth than finding somebody who brings sponsorship. Sometimes, and we have to see this also different. There is talented drivers out there. They're very good. And they have got a personal sponsor which wants to go into F1. That doesn't mean that the driver is a pay driver. He just helps the team and himself because he will get a cut of that sponsorship money. you know it's just business as normal does the way that you lead a paid driver change compared to how you lead a non-paid driver yeah but respectfully if it's like well your dad's paying for it i can't exactly school you and tell you off can i because you're going to go to dad yeah it's a fine line you need to walk i mean again it's it's it's a good question you know what i try to do because you're obviously a reference to my situation you know with your Cali with the Mazepin.

38:00The driving, I dealt with the driver direct, but I also always tried to inform the father why I did that, so I didn't have the father being told by his son that I'm a dick, basically. So I tried to explain why I did certain things, and I think that worked, but you're walking on a fine line there, because obviously blood is thicker than water. You all know that. If the father has to be... Puts you in a really hard spot. Sometimes you can be in a hard spot, yeah. And it happens. The business of athletes has changed a lot recently. And what I mean by that is we talk about it with team sports, where individuals become as important, if not more influential, than the badge that they sometimes play for.

38:42Has the celebritization, shall we say, of individuals, of athletes, been a problem at all, do you think, for the management side of Formula One? Or has it been something to play off where it just builds the presence of the sport? It's a combination. and again, I think we have got the perfect example here. I think in Formula 1, the only one above the team is Lewis Hamilton. His, what do you call it, his presence, his... Stature. Yeah, stature. It is like it's very big, outside of the sport as well, because that's where it goes. You're big in the sport, but then when you get big outside of the sport, you're bigger than the actual team.

39:21You know, it's the same in football. It happens, you know. So I think in Formula 1, The only one which can claim that one is Luis in the moment. I think Max is very big in the sport, but he doesn't work on being somebody outside of the sport because for him, his life is racing cars, you know, while Luis has got another thing as well, what he wants to achieve in life. And I think we see it now with Luis at Ferrari. There are two huge brands together, you know, and it's almost sometimes a conflict, you know, who is bigger, Ferrari or Luis. If you were TP, would you have done that if you were running Ferrari purely for the Lewis factor?

39:59No, because I don't think Ferrari needs that. That's my opinion. Again, I'm not running Ferrari as a corporate. So I think it's a cool story, to be honest. It's a cool story, a seven-time world champion going to Ferrari. Ferrari was doing good. But I think we put the expectations so high. So now the expectations are not fulfilled. We are a little bit, oh, this doesn't work. And now we are depressed about it. We talked about the celebritization of drivers. What about the celebritization that came through Drive Survive, increased media exposure, Liberty Media's acquisition, and this transformation that we've kind of been referencing all the time, but really the broader global mainstreaming of the sport?

40:38I think it helped finding sponsors. Because before, as a small team, nobody knows about you. Nobody wants to speak with you. Now with Drive to Survive getting this publicity, people wanted to be associated with you, you know? and I think it helped Formula One to start off with drive to survive but also it helped all the teams, not only the big ones. Did you expect the response that you got? No, not at all. I mean, it was one of these things again because in the end I didn't do anything for it. You know, that's the weird thing. It's not like that you say, oh, I go into this project, I need to do this, that, and no.

41:16You go there, you put a mic on and you do your job and then one day you wake up and people know you. You know, it's like, I haven't contributed to this one. I have, but not intentionally. You know, I didn't learn a script or anything. I just did my job. You said earlier that cost caps contributed to the appreciation of value in F1. What contributed more, cost caps or drive to survive, celebritizing the sport? I think it's a combination. One couldn't work with the other one. It was like, I think it was, the biggest factor was Liberty Media taking over the business because they had the vision what they need to do with the business.

41:54And I respect Bernie Eccleston a lot what he did, but there was a point where it floodlined, you know, actually. Yeah, it was an old audience. It was old media. But it was still making good money, you know. It was still making good money. But again, the vision was, where do I want to go? And Bernie was, he was happy where he was, you know. he didn't need more you know i mean which is strange because he's normally looking up yeah

42:20that's a good one and bernie's never coming on the show exactly that's it

42:28no no but but i say bernie did a very good job bernie had the vision 40 years ago what liberty media had now you know i compare it a similar liberty media comes in buys this business for a lot of money being critiqued american company they don't know what they are doing. They will sell it in a few years and lose shitloads of money. Guess what? They changed it and they're going to make shitloads of money, you know? Yeah, exactly, yeah. They will have more than you. I wouldn't go that far. All right, sorry. Sorry, excuse me. Absolutely. An unbelievable deal. It was just their vision and obviously they got a little bit lucky with a very unlucky situation in the world, which was COVID, you know, because we were all sitting at home.

43:07But again, it was due to Liberty Media, chase carry getting all the teams together trying to find a way to go back racing again when nobody else could put a sporting event on what did that actually look like i mean you said when he brings everyone together and you're having those chats what did he do what did they do it's just like he because the guy has because he's not a petrol head or anything he just wants to do business he brings people together and makes them work together this would have not been possible before because there would be the teams of i don't want to do this no i don't no he brought everybody these These meetings were actually fantastic, you know, these video meetings with him, because you can see what actually, if people have got something in mind and they want to do something, because everybody looked after himself at the time.

43:50We were all struggling, the teams, you know, because in the end, if we don't go racing, we don't get any money. And that's not an easy place to be in racing. And you've got a chase carry there trying to, oh, getting everybody together and everybody working together to make it happen. And then it was the first sport to go live again, you know, in Austria with two races in June. The world stopped in March. F1 went out and did an event in June. Nobody else achieved that. And it's one of the most difficult sports to go live because you need so many people. I mean, if you think about football, I mean, I always, because it's the only sport that's bigger, you need a lot less people to put on a football match than to put on an F1 race, you know.

44:31And in a pandemic, the achievement was great, you know, the control of it, that the pandemic doesn't spread the tests and all what we had to do to organize all that in a very short period of time there's a lot of respect to all the people involved and to somebody like chase leading this and making it happen when you move around the world as you do what is the logistical component of moving a team it's a very uh refined industry you know it's very well organized again centrally everything is done centrally you know uh the teams what they do themselves is the trouble for the people, which these days you have got a travel department with big teams have got maybe five to 10 people, small teams have two or three people, you know, but all the logistics, the parts and the cars, it's all done centrally via the promoter.

45:19You know, you pay for it, but the jets are all divided by the teams. It's over the years, and it's quite interesting to see and to look into a deep how how sophisticated it is how nice it streams everything you know it's like there's no problem there is always little problems but but again it it developed over years and years they didn't start off with we have to bring 40 tons of equipment no they started with two tons then it went to three tons and you grow and then you grow solid so it's very nice to see how nice everything flows car aside what are you transporting that is owned by the team all the garage all the equipment is owned by the team.

45:58You know, in Europe, you've got the big holders that you do everything yourself and the motorhome. When you fly it away, what you normally have got six sets of sea freight, you know, which you ship by sea because it's cheaper. The cheap stuff, you make more sets of it and you put them in a container because you can use them only twice a year and you ship them around and then every team has got about 30 to 50 tons of equipment which you fly around. All the expensive stuff, which is more expensive to make more of it than to fly, that's the stuff you fly around the world. Where was your favorite place to race?

46:32My favorite place, I would say, is Melbourne. Why? I think one reason is emotional. It was normally the first race in the calendar. Now it's again for a period it was not because, you know, you start a new season, you're full of hope, you know, everything will be good this year, and then I'm a racer, you know, a racer always. The next race will be better than the last one, and the next year will be better than the last year. You go to, you're full of energy, you come away from Melbourne again and you know that you're shit again. But anyway, you go there pumped up and definitely like to go there.

47:05But no, it's a nice racetrack. Melbourne is a fantastic city. The people are very welcoming. It's just a good place. The weather there is good when you go there in March. Which city were you like, oh God, I don't want to go there? Don't say that. I cannot say that. You can. You can, yeah. then they take my visa away next time I want to go there. What about US? You've lived in America for so long. You've been the TV of an American team. And now we see this incredible expansion of Formula One over there. Does the growth of Formula One over there in your eyes sustain? I would say so. Your word? Sustain.

47:43Is it going to grow like it grew now? No. But I think sustain was the question, not the growth. It's sustainable. Because, you know, American fans, if they get into something, they get in deeply. They are committed, you know, and now they are committed, these people, you know. Because when I moved there to the States 15 years ago, almost 19 years ago, people knew I won, but nobody could care about Formula One. It's very strange. Now you speak about Formula One, even the people on the road, they know about it, you know. are they mega fans? Not all of them, but there's a lot of, there's a good fan base there now, you know?

48:25And I mean, if you see Austin, the crowd which goes there, more than half a million over the weekend, that's quite a lot of people, you know? And Miami was sold out, you know, thanks to me being the ambassador for them. Yeah, exactly. Thanks. Thank you. Did you get a cut of that one? Of the Miami GP? No. I'm the ambassador. You didn't learn from last time, didn't you?

48:49he offends us all try being related to him and the younger brother you just have to cough it that's an impressive stare there for a second you're like oh shit but how much did you bully him because you are so dull and he's so little yeah I know a lot what do you think about the gridwalks we look at Miami and it always just you know Martin Brundle walking out there and it's just hunt the celebrities. It's hunt the faces. You know, I don't watch a lot of Sky, so I don't see it. I read more about it, you know, so I don't know how it really works. Obviously, I see them out there, but it is a little bit...

49:26It has become part of it, but I think it's not a bad thing and I think Martin is doing a great job at it because it's not an easy job. It's the hardest job. Does he get anyone ever to talk? Basically, he's like, hey, Kylian, Kylian Mbappe, please speak to us. Security guards get fucked off and he's like, oh, that was a great conversation. I think if you get onto the grid now, they actually say if you're approached by it, you really should. And he was amazing at doing it. But people were just rude to him and dismiss it. But it seems like it's got easier. But the thing I'm, they're still putting cameras in drivers' faces as they're walking out to the cars.

50:0120 minutes, and that's not him. That's the demand of media now. And when you're a driver, I'd imagine in that zone, the half an hour before a race surely has to be sacred. It's a very weird thing in Formula 1. There is no other sport where you can get this close to an athlete, this close until he has to compete. Look at it. And I think people do not give enough respect to the drivers that they actually do it. Look at the tennis players. How many hours before the game he's not talking to media? A football player. I mean, you know, they very rarely talk after the game, but before the game. But in NFL, you know, go to American sports, which are much more consumer-friendly, you know, fan-friendly.

50:43The players do not talk with journalists and F1 drivers because I think – but it's part of it why F1 is so popular. Because you can – people speak or journalists speak. And I always say the journalist or the TV presenter is just a messenger. The driver doesn't speak with the journalist. The driver speaks with the fans. Speaking with a journalist doesn't mean anything. You want to reach the people which are there. He's just a messenger which has got the advantage to have got a mic in his hand or a pen in his hand. But no other sport I think is possible. I thought about this quite a lot. How many sports people wouldn't do it.

51:24But I think these guys grow up. This is part of their job. I mean, two hours before the race, they're in the back of a lorry going around the racetrack, waving to people and being interviewed. you know it's because it it consumes it's not this energy doesn't come for free you need energy to do this stuff you know which normally you say if i'm an athlete i need this energy to do my job which is actually doing the sport and uh but but i i think over the years again it's one of the things which developed and it's part of the culture of f1 how was your first experience of it when suddenly people were coming to you asking for selfies wanting to chat and interrupt you probably come up to you and your family and restaurants how did you manage that transition of your profile i i mean first of all i didn't change the biggest thing for me was my daughter at the time was about seven eight years old and and you know when people came over and say gunter and every time was do you know this person no i don't know this person so why he knows you because of the tv obviously it didn't take you a long time uh you know but it's one of those things you get used to it you know and it doesn't come from one day to the other it builds up quite uh quite over time and now you like it as in this part of your career your life you've got your podcast you do the media now it's something you embrace yeah otherwise i wouldn't do it as simple as this you know if i wouldn't like to sit here with you i wouldn't come i've got that freedom to say no a team comes and says hey we want you to be tp but you've got to give up all this media stuff do you go back to life as a tp i mean i go back to life as a tp if there is a project out there with a vision which i like not just to do a job.

52:56I mean, just to do a job, I'm not going back to do it. Which TP do you most respect on the grid today? Soto. Which owner do you think is best? I mean, there is no real owner. I mean, there's a few owners out there, but they are now owned by big corporates, you know, the big teams. So, you know, but which owner? Or who would you want to work for? Nobody. honestly i mean uh the best would for me would be to work for myself you know you can make the decisions that is always the nice part but which owner i mean there's only two teams which are owned by individuals not even there's only one team in the own by an individual which is uh has all the other ones are even dance uh lawrence stoltz is partly owned by uh the company you know so i mean for sure i'm not going to work for gene has i mean I think I don't have to explain that one.

53:52No, you don't. What about the changes that are coming up next year? Those regulations to normal people who don't necessarily know the depths of the sport. When you have these massive changes in regulation that require significant changes to the cars and how everything works, are the top teams vulnerable in their position if they don't quite get this right? Absolutely. Everybody's vulnerable. I mean, next year, nobody knows what will happen. We need to wait until February, until they go testing. I think next year they go already testing in January. But I think until we figure out who is where, it's February.

54:23Because if anybody would know where anybody else is, that information would be worth a lot of money. But nobody knows. Everybody's speculating. And everybody speculates, yeah, Mercedes last time around did a fantastic job. So they are the favorite to do a fantastic job as well. I think they've got the same opportunity like the other ones, not more. Just because you did a good job 10 years ago, it doesn't mean that you do a good job now. because there's not many of them people there from 10 years ago. So obviously, I've got a good experience, but I have no idea who is going to be on top next year.

54:56You are in charge of F1, okay? You can make one regulatory change that will have the biggest and best impact. What regulatory change would you make if you had a magic wand? More sprint races. More sprint races, why? The people now, if you look at that free practice on a Friday, is boring as shit. You know, it's, I think the generation younger than you, you're an old guy, you know, they want action, you know, and watching a free practice is not action and sprint races and sprint qualifiers can be good action, especially a qualifying that is good entertainment in my opinion. It's also good for short form on TikToks and Instagram Reels and YouTube Shorts.

55:36Absolutely. You know, a free practice. So that's what I would be doing. You actually said, this was one of the things that was a completely different take to what I'd seen anyone else say. You thought the major change in Formula One and its popularity actually came from its adoption of distribution on social media and the ability to create content fit for those platforms rather than just having Drive to Survive build its audience. What changed when they enabled that to happen? Why hadn't that been a case before? I think, again, the management before didn't believe in social media, didn't see the value of it.

56:07And, you know, in social media, it takes time to build this up. And there was a guy there, Sean Bratches, which embraced that one and pushed everybody to do stuff. He put everything together, you know, got the people within F1, employed people, which were looking after it because he's not an expert in social media. But, you know, you don't need to be an expert in everything. You need to be smart enough to find people which are experts and let them do their job. That is what a good manager does. And that's what he did. On that, can you tell me why? It seems like there's been a move recently where more, should we say, people from engineering-type backgrounds, more of those engineers are becoming team principals rather than what we'd say the traditional maybe Toto leader-type individual is.

56:45Why is there this technical push at the top of the organizations? I think because they start to divide the commercial with the technical, with the sporting a little bit, you know, because they are so big companies now. I mean, they are billion-dollar businesses now, you know. In the old days, it's a few hundred million, three, four, five hundred million. One guy can lead it. But once you have got billion-dollar companies, obviously, you know, everybody wants a piece of it. And, you know, why is it technical people? I think it's more like because they find technical people which have got the experience of F1, you know, of actually running the sport.

57:17Because normally the corporates have got business people which know how to run companies, but they have no idea how to run an F1 team, you know. So they put these people in charge of it. And you think it's really important in your experience of a team principal role that that knowledge of the technical usurps the knowledge of a business? I think you should have both of them, in my opinion. But technically, you need to understand what you're looking at. Otherwise, it's difficult to lead any company if you don't know what your actual business is and don't understand it. We've joked a lot, but you have an awesome personality that you share openly with media, which is great.

57:54has your personality and your outspoken nature ever got you in trouble and when was that most well i don't remember it has brought me in trouble i mean but but there is a point where you you know like i i don't know for me it was like when you say something say did i really say this you know when they write it and then after a while you just get i actually didn't say anything but not maybe everybody agreed with it but i i mean as long as i do not offend people, it's fine, you know, because in the end, we can be of a different opinion. I mean, I'm not saying, you know, I can agree to disagree. I mean, I don't have to, we can get on.

58:33We don't have the same opinion. I mean, you don't like the same food as me. I don't really care. I always think it like this, you know, and I'm allowed, I think everybody, not me, everybody's allowed to have an opinion about something, you know, and we don't have to be always perfectly aligned with everything, you know. Obviously, I try not to offend people, and sometimes you don't really achieve that one. You say something you shouldn't say, but, you know, shit happens. But from outside perspective, it looks like the reason the celebrity around you increased was because you just had a character that was resonating with people, right?

59:04It was just honest. And you said you didn't realize that it would come out of it, probably because you didn't think about these interviews as anything more than you just being you. You weren't going in there thinking, I need to play up to this or I need to do that. That's quite unusual. Yeah, but again, I think I had the advantage there. I didn't work for a big corporate. A big corporate would stop you, you know it's like media training what you have got to say but but but it's the same questions you guys ask me would you go back to run a team yeah but but it needs to be how i want to run it not somebody else likes to run it you know it's like i i need to be able to say to get the best out of me what i think not what other people think i i i'm not a speaker you know i i'm i'm a person which wants to do something if i believe in it i do the best i can and uh hopefully it's good enough you know you do a quick fire let's do it what would you do if you were Zac Brown running McLaren I would be partying day and night because they do such a good job so you don't need to do anything just let let's win the championship whoever wins who cares you know what do you think about the Formula 1 movie coming out at a time where the sport is on and up but now more in a Hollywood piece you said the right thing because you know when you discussed the Formula 1 movie with people from F1 which I've seen, it's, you know, I say always, it's Hollywood.

1:00:21We need to be aware this is a Hollywood movie for billions of people, not for millions of fans. This is for billions of people. I would compare it with Top Gun Maverick. If you go to the U.S. Air Force and show him that movie, that is not how it is. But we love it because it's Hollywood. You know, I don't know anything about the U.S. Air Force, you know, but I'm pretty sure it is not like I portrayed. It's a movie. It's a Hollywood movie. It's cool. You know, that what it is, big actors in it, you know, big drama, big scenes, fantastic footage, you know, that what it should be. It's Hollywood.

1:00:58It's for billions of people, but it's not a documentary. That's what we have to be aware of. It's not a realistic documentary. And I think it's a good thing because, again, it takes the sport to billions of people and maybe a few million come back and watch Relaf 1. What does no one see about being a team principal that more people should see or know? How hard you actually work, you know? How hard you actually work. They work harder than all these media investment people and all that stuff, you know? Brutal. Yeah. Super tough. Yeah, super tough. You need to be a really strong, good, intelligent guy to do a team principal job.

1:01:35Yeah, you're not a TP anymore. Maybe that wasn't good enough. How cool my mate, Zach. Influx of rookies this year. Why was this the time where lots of new drivers came in and, shall we say, the more established ones who lost their seats last year weren't picked up by other teams? You know, sometimes this happens. I think it's just like there was a few years where there was no movement like last year in 24. There was the same drivers like in 23. And it was like, I think it was not strategic or anything. It was just, you know, one of these random things. It was a year a lot of young people came in and the old ones had to leave.

1:02:12Giving people two or three races to prove themselves seems quite hard. F1 is a hard business. So, you know, it's like sometimes you need to live with that one, you know. Can I rephrase that to a better question then, which is if you're putting them in the seat, you're making an initial judgment. Do you not need to give yourself more of a representative data set, let's say, to make that big call on rather than react off three races? yes and I think the reaction to two races who do you refer to Alpine or Red Bull because I think with Red Bull the swap of the seats was fair you know Liam Lawson didn't lose his seat I think they gave him a second chance which is very good because I think he's good and that Alpine I mean when Jack Doohan came in I mean before he came in he was already critiqued and was told that he has got only five races to prove himself I think that is a little bit harsh So I don't know how realistic that was or not, but in the end it happened.

1:03:10But the guy which followed is not doing a lot better, you know. So again, sometimes you can get the driver wrong. And as you say, maybe you need to give him a fair shot at it. But what is a fair shot? You know, it's like every case is different to the other one. Immense work hours, immense travel, sustaining a marriage. What was the biggest advice on marriage and having the most successful partnership? I would say I'm very lucky with my wife. We are married 30 years. You know, it's one of the things. But I think one of the things is she doesn't know any different. When we got married, I lived already that life.

1:03:49You know, I think if somebody gets married and you haven't lived, after you're doing this, it's very difficult to sustain, you know. When there's a change that's facing. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, but, you know, we got together. I was already doing this very similar way of life, you know. So you get used to it. and what I always try to do to take the family to a few races, you know, I mean, again, that is a privilege you can have when you are in senior management that you can take them because it is something it helps. You're putting together your team based purely on personalities. You got your two drivers.

1:04:24We're not talking technical. Who are the most fun teams to have? Fun, our personalities. Your two drivers. Who's the most fun? Nico is good fun. Hülkenberg. Hülkenberg. Hülkenberg, he's good fun. Hülkenberg, Hülkenberg, yeah. How do you call it Hülkenberg? My gosh, we've got Gunther Steiner and Nico Hülkenberg. It could be like a Bond set. This is brilliant. The good and the bad and then the odd. And the second one, who is? Eddie Orbein. I was convinced, surely Ricardo is going to go in there. I love that. That's completely different. Completely different. Listen, Gunther, this has been amazing.

1:05:03I've so enjoyed this. Thank you so much for joining us and this has been so much fun. We've loved it. Thanks for having me. We've done some amazing F1 shows in the past and that is another one to add to the list. Of all the people that you could want to speak to in this type of environment, Gunter sits so high up on that. He does a huge amount of media and people obviously know who he is now better than almost any other person that sat in the job. But as I said at the beginning, what was amazing here is that was the person that I had seen on TV right in front of us, delivering the same personality, the same humor, the same entertainment that he does when he was first on our screens with Drive to Survive.

1:05:43It's always intriguing when doing the show to see who actually does match up to the personalities that they may have presented. You never quite know. And when they do line up to the person you think they are, it's so great to see. This of course is also a man who has achieved amazing things and I never want to diminish him just to the personality piece but I have no doubt moving forward there's a huge amount left in the career of Gunter Steiner and motorsport that we can all get excited about watching and following in whatever guise it takes. So a huge thank you again to Gunter for joining us.

1:06:12It was an absolute pleasure to have him on the show and I hope you enjoyed this episode. now if you want to see more from today's show you can do so by going to youtube and typing in business of sport but before we leave you some words from our valued partners this is digital fitness coaching at its peak i'm so excited for us to partner with runner a relationship that's going to get us all up and out there me included pacing the streets woodlands parks beachfronts but backed up by elite level insight and accessibility this is the kind of coaching that used to be reserved for the pros now all you need is a pair of shoes and a goal I'm terrible at sticking to anything without a plan.

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