Monty Panesar: From Bowling Tendulkar & Saving Ashes Tests to the Challenge of Life After Cricket (Ep125)

24:04Yeah, look, when I was younger, I remember I wrote a letter to Beth for Modern, you know, cricket master, just to see if I can get in the sixth form and, you know, try and play there as an opportunity, you know, which helped me. So Nigel Chinook, you know, got me like a cricket, you know, scholarship there and that really helped me for two years playing there. Then we had like the cricket development officer, David Mercer, who kind of like helped me in terms of getting into the minor counties team. And then I played minor counties and then close by I had North Ants as my pathway system but then ECB introduced the UCCE cricket centres amongst the universities there were six centres at the time there was Cambridge, Oxford, Exeter, Cardiff, Durham, Loughborough and I then applied for my course at Loughborough University because of course the facility's there so I got in you know to do computing and management but then I got the best sides of both worlds I got best sides of like studying as well as playing cricket yeah now if if the ecb never introduced that it would have gone to university or not probably the answer would know because at the time north end said that you know out of 100 cricketers i would say you probably will make it you know if there's one cricketer so i'd rather you not go to university and focus on your career here but then i still said, I don't mind actually still going to university and giving it my best shot.

25:32And then, you know, hopefully I can maybe catch up after that. With that in mind, I got opportunities on both things, you know, studying as well as playing cricket. And that gave me a bit more time, you know, that during June, July, second half of the season, we could turn a bit more. So when I come back from university, I can go, I can play, you know, straight hopefully into the first team. And that's what happened at the age of 23 in my final year, I played eight games, took 51 or 53 wickets and quickly like the likes of Jeff Miller, David Graveney, who was selectors at the time, had an eye on me straight away.

26:06They thought, yeah, this guy can probably play for England. He's performing really well. And I was taking big wickets, you know, at the time like Graham Hick, you know, Andy Flower, who were good players of spin. And that's how your name gets in a mention because selectors, they look at not the wickets you take, but the big players. If you're taking regular wickets of them, then you get noticed more. And yeah, gradually I got into that system. So I've got to thank you massively to ECB for creating that pathways. That helped me to get into England cricket.

26:37Monty Panesar:And if you hadn't played for England, let's say just on the county kind of contracts, how feasible was that for you from a financial perspective, a business perspective? Yeah, because still you can earn and still good money, which you can do. But then if I was just a county cricketer, then it wouldn't give me the satisfaction, you know, of where I can go, you know, as I'm trying to push myself and stretch myself, you know, to become the best cricketer I can be. You get a lot of county cricketers who maybe sometimes feel that they may not believe that they can play for England. And then they can all, they start working on other careers and, you know, having business on the side as well as playing cricket.

27:15So during the winter months, they'll maybe develop their own cricket academies or start, you know, developing another career, knowing that if I develop this over the winter months and then play cricket during the summer, then, you know, they're busy both times of the year. While others, they'll be like, well, actually, I want to play cricket for England. So I'm going to push myself and I'm going to go away and play in Australia, in South Africa, better my game, come back and really, you know, go there. It's up to the individual. You know, some people are happy just playing county cricket. You know, they're happy doing that.

27:45they find that that's okay for me. I just wouldn't push themselves and try and play for England.

27:49Monty Panesar:When you play for England, do you feel like an England player who maybe drops in to play a bit of county cricket? Because that's the interesting thing about cricket, right? Normally, let's say, again, apply it to, well, let's apply it to football. You're a club footballer who occasionally goes and plays an international match. But it does seem from the outside, like when England are playing, the majority of your crickets pretty much play for England. Absolutely. It is like that. And I think, you know, I played a lot of cricket, obviously 50 matches for England, but it was very much early on in my England career I was playing more games for England less for county cricket and then after the Cardiff test that was my last home test match it was the other way where I was playing more first class cricket for Sussex and Essex and less games you know for England so that was your last home test match that was my last home test match wow and that was just because when well travelling you were more effective on the pitches internationally yeah that as well and then obviously another guy called Graham Swan that yeah Came in the way and, you know, he was a good spinner, good batter, good slip catcher.

28:50And probably a better bloke as well in the dressing room. And, you know, so, you know, he's a funny guy with all his accents that he can bring in. And, you know, he's a good after dinner speaker as well. And he's done very well in the media world as a commentator. How can you compete? So I had no choice but to sit down and make his drinks and say, there you go, mate, what do you want? As a 12th man.

29:13Monty Panesar:Yeah, I know, it's very true. Tell us, if you're happy to then, about when you kind of get to the end of that England career, what happens? How do you deal with those transitions as an athlete? Yeah, so like as an athlete, you build a lot of resilience. You build discipline. You build that winning mindset. You build about how to work in a team. You know, if someone drops a catch, you don't have a go at them. You like go up to them and say, don't worry, try the next one a bit harder. and they'll end up trying 20, 30 % harder. Then they'll end up taking a blinder. But if you go at them hard, they'll be always going to be nervous.

29:50So you learn the emotional intelligence. You know, there's many things that you learn and the drive as well and the focus, you know, and all these other things that come with it. So once I stopped playing, obviously my career had my autobiography come out and then I started to, you know, put my feet in the media world. And I remember my parents, they said if you're serious about working in the media I think you should go and do a course so then I quickly you know went and I thought which is the one closest to London that that's going to be easy for me and St Mary's University was there and then um got there and I started to do it created my little podcast called Monty Meats and as my uh final year project I didn't manage to push that further I just obviously did it there and then that was a great experience for me and then you know things you know I kept on pushing further and further and so how long were

30:39Monty Panesar:you playing cricket for after you played your last match for England? How long did you keep going? Yeah, I kept on going, playing obviously club cricket, played in Liverpool for Wallasey, Hornchurch, played at Great Wichingham, then I played now at Pylstall Cricket Club at South, you know, in the South Staffordshire Premier League. So it's, yeah, I think cricket, I still love playing cricket, keeps me fit, but I love just being in that sort of a part of a cricket club, just to sort of understand the landscape of cricket during grassroots levels. And it keeps me connected as well how do you view the business of cricket today we look at multi formats everyone's very um focused on short form we know there's a threat to the longer form game you played most of your cricket in the longer form game and didn't you know venture as much i know you did partially but as much into that kind of big franchise cricket world without putting any words in your mouth i'm just asking you to take a look at the cricket landscape today what do you see how do you view it?

31:36I think the way I view it is there's a lot of privatization, you know, that's going on. So like, look at the hundred, you know, 50 % of the teams have been sold already to the IPL owners where the big money is. They'll come in and eventually, you know, we'll see like Mumbai Indians, you know, MI London, like we see, you know, with the Super Giants Manchester. Sunrise's leads. Yeah, Sunrise's leads. So eventually it's going to be like a T20 game format, really. The 100, I think, from the men's cricket will change to a T20 format. And you'll just see a wider audiences. You know, you may see a lot more people from the South Asian community going to the cricket grounds because, you know, they may see some, you know, Indian cricketers coming into this and then a lot more money will get for it.

32:22You may see, you know, Bhangra, which is like, you know, again, you know, a Sikh form of, you know, music. And, you know, you see performers, going into halfway during a match like NFL. You see the rappers, same thing with Bhangra Singhas going in there. So you see a different form of entertainment coming into English cricket, but it's helping, isn't it? You look at, it's keeping a lot of counties afloat. There's a lot of money. Yorkshire's debt has been cleared off because of that money as well. And the same happening with the Big Bash as well. They probably play their first game in Chennai at the start of the Big Bash season.

32:59So India is the hub of it. India has the grip. and the control on world cricket. And that's where the money is at, really.

33:07Monty Panesar:I was going to say, because when you said, oh, I'm seeing a lot of like the privatization piece, it almost sounded like you didn't agree with it. No, I agree with it because I think the game has to grow and gets bigger. But also, I also want to, hopefully, you know, these leagues that are being owned by, you know, investors and private companies, there's a foresight of thinking, okay, we have some sort of responsibility in making sure test cricket still survives, right? Because that's the biggest thing. Test cricket needs to survive and they've got to do everything they can. And maybe the ICC can get hold of it where they say, look, a percentage of the money goes into a fund or just helping other nations with match fees, with TV rights, whatever it is, to make sure that the boards, the other smaller nations, they're not losing the money.

33:53And that's something that I'm sure at some point the ICC will be thinking, look, there's a lot of money being made in these leagues, but maybe some parts of it, can that be contributed towards Test cricket?

34:05Monty Panesar:I recognise I'm anglifying this, but hey, we're in England. But for Test cricket to survive, really, we need the county system to thrive. So it's interesting, isn't it, that through the creation of the 100, a short form game, you've now seen huge amounts of money. I mean, Yorkshire, I think, received about, well, between 50 to 60 million for their stake. And they were the only county to sell their whole stake. But that money has then enabled the county to survive, really, if we're being honest. Clear the debts and invest in some of the ways that they need to moving forward. So these short form games, while it's this kind of weird imbalance in a way, because they're taking time, calendar space, talent away from long form cricket.

34:50Monty Panesar:But at the same time, they're also, just to sweeten it a bit, providing the key cash that's needed to keep these 150, in some cases, year old assets afloat. Yeah, look, I think that's up to the owners then, isn't it? That's up to the owners of the teams, owners of these leagues, you know, which are part of the 100, obviously, you know, like we see Big Bash and IPL, that they actually have that mindset as well to think, okay, we're making a lot of money in owning these T20 teams. and we also got to make sure that there is that window for test cricket for the nations we don't want gradually the numbers reducing you know i think england are playing probably i think 12 to 14 test matches this year but other nations are only probably playing five or six and you know not many and you don't want to get to a point where there's fewer numbers with the smaller nations and only then the slightly bigger ones like india australia and england that's the problem at the moment they end up playing majority of test cricket while the others drop down and they just keep focusing on shorter format so it's really important to think is there a minimum number of test matches it's some of the smaller nations have to play and that will that'll be that's the way to maintain you know test cricket how would you have looked at your value if you were playing top level franchise cricket yeah i think i'll be worth one million pounds yeah i agree but you know you but you bowled quite fast didn't you for a spinner yeah i bowled fast and And I bowled it into the pitch quite quickly.

36:14So, you know, someone, you know, maybe bowling the power play, a couple of overs, maybe have to have the first bowl, bowl it into the pitch quickly. I'd have to improve my fielding a lot, be a lot more athletic. I would learn how to hit big sixes. So I'll employ a power coach, you know, to learn me how to hit 100-meter sixes. But this is all feasible. Once you know what skills are required, you know, you naturally, you know, will make yourself into that. When, you know, was it Roger Bannister, right? Yes. Yeah, four minute mile. Four minute mile. When he broke it, the following year, 20 other people broke it.

36:48Right? It's the same thing. It's like you evolve. You know, if right now, if you're a young batsman, you are assessed on, can you hit 100 meter sinks? Right? When they, how far can you hit a six? Yeah. You know, it doesn't matter about your defense. It's about how far can you hit a six? And as a bowler, how quickly can you spin a cricket ball and get it to turn. What is the maximum speed? You can bowl the spin, bowl a cricket ball and it turns. It could be maybe 60 miles per hour or it could be 65 and that's where it's at and then from there you start playing around with it. You bowl the slower one, you bowl the quicker one, you just, but you've got to have the ability.

37:28The successful, you know, spinners are the ones in T20 cricket are the ones who bowl it quick and get it to turn. Yeah.

37:34Monty Panesar:What do you think of Suryavanchi? He's not bad, is he? Unbelievable. I mean, he's like taking, he is the prime example of if I'm coaching you know young cricketers and the parents come up to me they go and they've got a 10 year old kid they're thinking in five years time I want my child to play in the T20 blast in the 100 that's the dream now is being sold to cricket it's like accelerated growth everybody wants growth quickly at a short amount of time and that's going to be impossible maybe at 15 but this is how parents are thinking but you know what's interesting is we've been lucky enough to speak to a few top, top level cricketers and every single time.

38:13Monty Panesar:And I don't know, maybe it is PR because it's the thing that they think people want to hear, but I genuinely believe it. They go, what's the pinnacle for you? And all of them will say, I'll give up short form in a heartbeat if I still got to play test cricket. So to this current group of players, test cricket remains that pinnacle. The challenge is, as you said, for the generation now that comes through, whether they can retain that value in test cricket or whether it is seeing the 15-year-old walk out in the IPL in front of the fanfare as well because the crowds, the atmosphere, it's what every sports person wants to play in, right?

38:45Monty Panesar:And if that's where you get it and you get that level of fanfare and that exposure, it's hard not to aspire to achieve that. Look, I agree with you. You know, like if I had, you know, if I had a child right now and it was a 10-year-old, I'll be like thinking in five years time, can I make him into the next, you know, Suryavanchari? That's it. Simple as that is what people want. They want accelerated growth, but you've got to also learn your cricket, right? So where I play my club cricket, you know, our personal cricket club, we have 50 over games. Then we have the Red Bull format where you bowl 15 overs and you learn, you know, how to bowl your stock delivery, how to bowl, you know, the bread and butter of cricket is the Red Bull format.

39:26And then we go to playing, you know, T20 cricket as well. So it's really important at grassroots levels, even at second 11, even at school level, that there is some form of Red Bull cricket being played. Because then the young cricketers, 11, 12-year-olds, or even like 14, 15, they're going to learn to play Red Bull format, which is really important. But then after that, yeah, you will branch out as you get older. You think, okay, you You think, well, this person, I'll sign this 18-year-old, 19-year-old because he'll be a good little T20 cricketer. He can whack a few sixes, bowl a little bit. So as a bowler, you don't really need to, like, if you're a spinner, you don't really need to learn your trade.

40:09If you can bowl two, three overs quite handsomely, pick up a couple of wickets, be a little bit unpredictable in your lines and lengths, and as a batsman, hit a few sixes, you can get signed up. But before, 20 years ago, it was like, how good are they? How good is their stock delivery? How good are they in Red Bull format? If you're good in Red Bull format, you'll get signed up. Now, they see it as, oh, is this person really, can this bits and pieces cricketer, how does they fit into my T20 team? And then they can learn on the way how to become a better Red Bull format.

40:40Monty Panesar:So with that in mind, do you fear for the future of spin bowling? No, because spin bowls are always going to have an impact in T20 cricket. But what you can do if you have a good youngster who is bowling it quickly and turning it and picking up wickers in T20 cricket. But when you put them into a Red Bull format, they'll probably, you know, have to bowl a bit slower because the shape on the ball has to be better. So it's slightly, you know, different attributes, but you can teach them that. But coaches now are thinking, oh, he could bowl it quick. Can he bat? He's a good fielder. Let's sign him.

41:11You know, he'll be good in a good signing for our T20, maybe getting to the 100 as well. And then you can teach them the Red Bull stuff as well. What do you think it's done for the brand of overall cricket? I think it's made it grown massively. It's gone to a different global, you know, spaces that we never thought it would able to. We have so many different leagues now all over the world. And we've got European leagues happening. We've got like leagues in Canada, in the West Indies, South Africa, you know. SAT20 is a prime example of why South African cricket is so strong in T20 and ODI formats.

41:46It's because a domestic T20 game is so strong. and I think that's what's going to happen with England as well. I think they will get closer to India because you look at the last T20 World Cup, India and England, when they played at that semi-final, England were always behind the game. Even though Jacob Bethel scored that magnificent 100, they were always behind. They were never ahead of India and that's where I think is going to be the difference. I think they'll get closer to India, they'll get closer to Australia because of the domestic tournament, the 100 will be a much stronger format.

42:25Monty Panesar:Tamar Mills said that South African T20 was his favourite that he's played in. And he's played in all of these, the IPL, he's played 100 here. He said it was just something about the atmosphere around it. And obviously being in South Africa in the middle of summer is not a bad thing to be either. But he said that, I think kind of surprised him a little bit how much he enjoyed it. Yeah, because I think, you know, the fan following, I think what Graham Smith has done is brilliant there. You know, he's kind of like make sure all the crowds are packed and you get good, you know, players get good value for the experience of playing there.

42:57But also the wickets, you know, the wickets are going to help fast bowlers more. So when he comes in and bowls quick, he'll probably get more bounce and he'll get a bit more seam movement. So you'll always feel he's in the game. Well, if he's maybe in India, he'll be thinking, well, I hope I don't get it for a big six here, even though I'm bowling it quick. How do I avoid myself getting it for a boundary? but I think in South Africa I think you probably get more scene movement and more swing as well

43:22Monty Panesar:How do you feel with English cricket at the moment? It's a very strange relationship between fans and English cricket right now Performance obviously in the ashes was far from ideal particularly I think with a lot of the hope going into it but it's been so much built on a style and a way of playing and a culture and a mentality and then what it's done for some of the players that have been selected and the types of players that have been left out spin has been a really interesting thing that has fallen by the wayside in this era, if you want to call it an era. But how do you look at it holistically amongst all of the opinions that everyone's throwing out from a cricketing perspective?

43:55I think from a cricketing perspective, if you want to get in the England team, you've got to understand what are the requirements to get in the England team and where do you fit in? You know, where is a spot for me, you know, that I have to fit in? So if you're a young county cricketer, that's how you're going to look at it. And if it's a young county cricketer, I would go and even, if you get an opportunity, go and speak to an England selector, Go and reach out if there's ever a time Marcus North is going to watch a county match. Go and speak to him. Look, what do I need you to get an England team?

44:24You know, then you get the proper lowdown on what you've got to do. And in my opinion, you know, if you're a batsman, the way England team are playing right now, yeah, you've got to have a good solid defense, but you've also got to learn to score quickly as well. You know, it's no point scoring a thousand runs and your strike rate is at 35-40. You know, they're looking at higher strike rates, maybe 60, 65, you know, that kind of level. And so you've got to look at the numbers as well. You know, someone like Harry Brook, that 40-odd he scored in the first innings against New Zealand, that was probably as valuable as 100.

44:59But he did it very quickly. He took on the attack. He played positive. So that's what probably England are looking at, you know. When England are in a bit touchable, do you have the ability to do that? and then as a seamer, do you have the ability to actually bowl well when the captain sends attacking, ultra attacking fields? You're not a defensive bowler. You're happy to get it for a few runs as well as take wickets. And from a spinner's point of view, how do you get into that team? I always believe as a spinner, your stock delivery has got to be really good. And if your stock delivery is good, then I think you've got a chance because you've got to somehow convince the captain and the coach to keep me on.

45:39If your stock delivery isn't good and they keep hitting you four or five runs and over, then the captain's going to think spin may not work in English conditions. But it can work if you're a good spinner and you have a good stock delivery.

45:52Monty Panesar:So do you think the lack of utilization of spin over the last few years for England, really, is down to people not grabbing the opportunity and showcasing this leadership that spin needs to play a key part in it versus it's just not part of the tactics of this group? Or it could be a combination, I guess. It's a combination. It's also if I'm a young spinner and I'm thinking I can hit a few sixes and it doesn't take that much out of my body, do I really want to play county cricket? I can earn more money playing franchise cricket if I can get into the T20 Blast, get with 100 franchise. If I can play in a white ball format for England and then back of that, get into the IPL, play maybe Big Bash, PSO, all the other leagues around.

46:35As an agent, they're probably thinking, you're going to make more money doing this. They're actually bowling 500 overs in county cricket and try and learn the traditional way. You're not going to make as much money. So I think a lot of young cricketers are looking at it from that perspective. They're thinking, it's a short career. I'm going to make more money being a team or any cricketer. It doesn't matter. You know, it's three lives. There's only a test number. I'm not going to make as much money. But people remember test cricketers because test cricket, if you're good at test cricket, it means you're good at other formats.

47:10And I think now cricketers are beginning to see that. Yes, I believe that. Ben Duckett is a prime example. He's thinking, no, I don't want to play in the IPL. I want to play county cricket because I want to be known as a good test cricketer, not someone who was good in T20 cricket. and that's where I feel that in the long term and we may even see the boards increasing more money you know they may give more money so you can retain the good players to play test cricket rather than going becoming a T20 franchise but if you're that sort of test cricketer where if you're like a Will Jacks for example you know where you're good at striking a ball bowl a little bit but you know you're not going to guarantee a spot in the England team unless it's a turning pitch and you come in play as a second spinner then you're going to think, well, during the county season, I'm going to play T20 cricket.

48:02I've got my 100. And can I get a few other franchise leagues? And there's a lot of cricketers in that bracket.

48:07Monty Panesar:Yeah. So that's where that bracket has a lot of money, but the slightly top tier where you're very skillful as a spin bowler because you've got a good stock delivery, that probably depends on the boards if they increase, you know, central contracts or even, you know, match fees for players. When you were playing, so like in England, how did your captains kind of speak to you about it? What were the conversations? Did they differ from what they wanted from you? Yeah, I think, look, the key was they wanted control from one end. They thought, well, if you go at two and a halves and he bowled with a good, you know, stock delivery to keep them, check, and then in between that, you know, he bowled a bit wide of the crease, you go and take a bit of time out, go and speak to the field and say, what are we going to have for lunch?

48:55What are we going to have for dinner tonight? The batsman's probably thinking, what's their new game plan? And you just change your field and they're both the same delivery, right? That kind of stuff is what sometimes, you know, as a young cricketer, we don't talk about enough, right? Because if you're a young cricketer, you don't see a young 15-year-old or a 16-year-old making test debut, but you see them in T20 formats. So you're only going to follow what you see. And if you're a young cricketer, you're going to think to yourself, I want to be a T20 cricketer, right? So what could be great for Test cricket is there a young cricketer.

49:35There's a young cricketer, Agul Morgan of Seema. He's only 18 and I think he took a hat-trick. If he can be accelerated and play in the Test team. We had Rian Ahmed, you know, just after under 19, he quickly played, you know, for England. More of them stories start happening. then they'll think actually it's possible to play test cricket at a younger age than play T20 cricket.

49:57Monty Panesar:Do we still have a pathways problem? And I say still because we definitely used to. Do we still have a pathways problem in cricket and making it accessible for enough people, enough kids in this country? Well, I think the ECB has recognised that. You know, they're thinking maybe at state school, we're not getting enough state school kids. We're getting maybe more private school kids. That's why there's a state school, you know, cricket programme. There's cricket, you know, drones. There's one in Luton, I think Preston. There's going to be one around the West Midlands area. They're opening other areas as well, one in Bradford as well.

50:29So I think the ECB are recognizing in areas where cricket facilities are not great, they're investing money. They're creating these programs. So there is obviously a slightly disharmony. Like they say, if you go to a private school, your coaching is going to be better. Your cricket sense is going to be better. So when you understand you're going to speak to a cricket coach, they'll say, OK, this is what I need to do with this. And while at state school, they may not have that access to that knowledge. So they are trying to enhance that.

51:00Monty Panesar:But, yeah, there is that gap. It's interesting. So, you know, on the media front, I found this as well. There's a lot of people I remember that came up and they've said it to me. It's like, oh, I don't understand a lot of the language that people use on cricket. Even if it's on the BBC feed, my wife who loves cricket, but only really because she was a girl and, you know, born in the 90s, you didn't get the opportunity to play much. She goes on to BBC Sport and they'll be using all of the cricket language that if you've never played the game, if you've never had the exposure growing up, yeah, we get it, obviously.

51:26Monty Panesar:I've been a part of it. You've been in that environment. But there was just a way of even communicating the game that needs to change. I know that started to improve. But from the media side, when you've worked, and especially on something like The 100, which is now built for this next generation, do you see even at that level things starting to shift and trying to make it more accessible, inclusive, understandable for people that haven't had the luxury of growing up in and around cricket environments with the facilities? and with the opportunities. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point because coming from a British, South Asian background, cricket's massive in India, in Pakistan, and even in England.

52:00You follow it, but you understand the language. But then if you're a neutral fan and you're, let's say, a big football fan or something in rugby, but you're trying to go into cricket, I think the T20 and the 100 has helped that. We've seen ticket sales rise massively between the age of 25 to 40. We see more people from all different backgrounds getting involved in cricket. It's helped the female sport massively. The 100 has been, I think, absolutely brilliant for the female cricketers, and it's really accelerated their growth. And we've obviously got the T20 World Cup happening in England right now.

52:39And you see the talent. You see every couple of years the game is getting faster with the women's game as well so which is great to see because sport has always gone quicker and quicker and um it's brilliant you know how uh you see the ball but they're getting faster they're hitting the ball further fielders are getting quicker so yeah the women's game is accelerating at a really good rate now if i said to you post cricket now

53:05Monty Panesar:post playing mostly where you enjoy most where you feel most valuable where you have the most to add Where is that? Media, coaching, like where do you want to be? Yeah, look, the thing is in cricket, when you're playing for your country, you take a wicket and that buzz is unbelievable. You're trying to replicate that. You're always trying to find that same feeling, right? In wherever it is. And that's why sometimes I play a bit of club cricket because I just, you know, if I hit the top of off, you know, one ball throughout the whole, you know, club cricket summer, it makes my summer. That's it.

53:39That's all I need. It feels good. And it's the same thing, you know, what's the next thing that's going to give me the same feeling? That's why I did a course in sports journalism. So hopefully talking about the game from whatever perspective it is, it gives you a buzz, you know. And I love, you know, working as a commentator, as a pundit, working in the media, which gives me huge satisfaction. Coaching is another area which I would love to go into as well. You know, it's lovely to see, to help someone and then see them perform and do really well. you still feel connected in their journey. So that's something both areas I love doing.

54:15Monty Panesar:You mentioned as well, there's a portfolio element to life after sport for a lot of athletes. And what you mean by that is, it's lots of different things that come together really to make this new job. The second innings, as you perfectly described it earlier. Outside of that direct work with cricket, what have you been doing? Business front, charitable front, et cetera. How's that all kind of packaged up for you? Yeah, so you need, like, you know, I was reading a book on, you know, finance books, I think we all do, right? self-help books who make us better again and all that kind of stuff so what's the best one so the well I'm still trying to think of that one what's the worst one oh yeah I don't want that to be bottom of the shelf of WH Smith when I mention that book that's the power of the show exactly this is the power of this show so as you protect Simon Sinek yeah exactly when you go through Heathrow Airport and it's WH Smith and I mention that book and think Monty mentioned it and it's 50th it's because of him it's the power of Monty yeah exactly I've dropped it down to bottom of that shelf.

55:10So I don't want to mention that book, but there's many great books, you know, obviously out there to help. But for me, I found that you need seven forms of income if you want to become a millionaire, you know? So let's say I've got a goal. I want to become a millionaire. You need seven forms of income. So that comes in media, playing, coaching, after dinner speaking, I do TV work, charitable work, which is, I also don't get paid for that, but charitable work, you know, it's again great for networking enhances business opportunities and creating your own business opportunities as well so there you go i've got seven forms of income already there so that is the challenge for the for the retired sportsman is you continue to keep yourself busy but actually having a business that is sustaining you know have one or two businesses that is your major cash cow and that is always going to be the challenge for us you know for for athletes you know is to develop that did anyone tell you that or is that something you found out for yourself that's something i found out for myself really and the challenge for me you know in uk is is there a business i can develop is there someone i can work with on a business that can actually

56:18Monty Panesar:be my longer term project how's it been leveraging the network that you built while playing to help you after your career it's been good you know people are very helpful people want to talk about cricket i'm a big you know football fan i love my boxing i love all my sports you know i love England doing well in all the sports you know that's my biggest thing so now I want England to win the World Cup that's it you know if on this show I'm telling you right now England are going to win the World Cup do you think yes honestly they're going to 100 % win it so they've got all the access all the resources and there's loads of Arsenal players in that England team right now and that's going to be the reason they'll win it you're going to tell me you're an Arsenal fan not a Luke absolutely I was there at the parade after 22 years and brought everyone together and I was loving every moment you know It was the best feeling in the world.

57:05Monty Panesar:You're not a Luton fan? I am a Luton fan as well. So you're both, yeah. So when Luton were in the Premier League, how did you manage? Yeah, yeah. I had that half Luton, half Arsenal. My loyalties were both. But as a football fan, we have irrational behaviours. We have a local team and a premiership team. Where a lot of cricket fans or football fans that I know disagree with me. They go, no, you've got to have one team. But I speak to them, I go, you have a local team, which is a Luton, which I'm even still angry about that on the 93rd minute they scored and Stevenage scored in another game and they got into the playoffs and Luton didn't they missed out but they did well they won the cup this year against Stockport which was brilliant It must be perfect for you having Jack Wilshere as manager an Arsenal legend playing sorry managing your your other team that's almost the perfect marriage for you isn't it?

57:51It is the perfect marriage for me so I wish all the best for Jack Wilshere I want him to continue to make Luton Town a great great club because he's an Arsenal Arsenal, you know, played for Arsenal, one of the Arsenal great players. And also he's going to help my Luton to get back in the premiership.

58:05Monty Panesar:But it's been all just exciting that you have this and having these different elements to you, these different layers, you know, yes, you're Montepanese are the cricketer, but there's also so much else around it that you can now give time to and build on and look to create value in. And that to some people is quite scary, but it's also quite exciting, I guess. Like if you embrace it fully and you go, what, like, what does this now look like for me? Yeah, exactly. And like I said, the challenge is, can I make my second innings equally successful as my first or even beyond that? And then also, you're right, you know, you're looking for a business opportunity that gives me the same buzz as turning a ball when I play for England.

58:41And, you know, media does it as well, you know, talking when I do after dinner speaking, you know, drop a few jokes. I love doing that. That's quite good fun. And then playing gives me that energy. Media obviously talking about it does as well. but the next challenge is is there a business for me where it gives me the same opportunity or gives me the same buzz where I can actually take it to the next level

59:03Monty Panesar:what do people ask you the most is there one thing you say you're doing an after dinner speech or you're doing some charitable work or you're doing some media is there one thing that everyone comes back to is it the Ashes yeah they talk about my favourite wicket they talk about your favourite moment in cricket they'll talk about what is it like playing for England all of these kind of things and it is a lot of fun, you know, just talk about my memories. Is there anything you'd like to be asked that you're not asked? That's a great question. If there's one question, you know, I like the cricket fans to ask me is what did they enjoy, you know, about me as a cricketer and what is it that they, you know, like that's something for me to ask but for them to come to me and just say to me and a lot of people say that you gave us a lot of enjoyment the way you played your cricket and the way you played it and everything like that, which was amazing.

59:53but I think that'd be one question you know can I answer it

59:56Monty Panesar:because I'm a fan yeah right so look there you go I'll give you that answer this is a great point I think the way you said the way you played the game is the easy answer but what it is is it humanized it so quite often elite athletes seem very very far away from what you can achieve because they won't give you some of the emotion from it you see like a wall and you see a way of being that is quite blocked off and that's often the mindset that elite athletes have to get into but you did it you did it with a smile you did it if there was ever a moment to have a bit of fun you had that fun you would absolutely dial in when you needed to but i personally as a fan i remember watching you and you know at that time cricket enjoying it like actually enjoying that interaction and it would be noticeably different to how i'd feel watching other players you bridged a lot of the very very serious landscape of professional sport and made it accessible you humanized i think playing professional cricket yeah i i think that's a really good point because i think what happens is like let's say if you you know sports people are seen as superheroes or some people that is as a distant distant away you know not saying that you're not of course yeah yeah exactly like i don't know what superpowers i have but uh i'm yet to discover yeah big hands and then you know you look at someone like Lewis Hamilton Anthony Joshua you know you think that they're so far away you know Cristiano Ronaldo you know these are like super human beings and I suppose when I played cricket I'm not saying I'm on the same bracket as them but I think the cricket fans felt more of a connection they thought oh here's a club cricketer who's playing for England you know and you know we can connect with this guy and enjoying it and enjoying it you weren't afraid to enjoy it in the moments which most people build their whole careers to get to.

1:01:43Monty Panesar:You played 50 times for England. Yeah. Right. So it's not like, oh, you know, I dropped in for a couple of tests. Half a century of test matches over seven, eight years. I wish I played 75. I would have got my MCC membership automatically. Is that what it is? 75? Yeah, so I missed out on 25 test matches. Do you not even get on the associate list? Well, I'm going to try and get that however I can. But it's interesting you talk about, you know, what I brought, you know, to cricket because I recently had a new bat sponsor, you know, up north, you know, Firecrest, the bird, you know, and I go to him how come you look to sponsor me he goes the reason I want you is because of visibility because of your brand your visibility when we say the name Monty Panessa it gives us enjoyment because you bring joy to cricket and everyone knows who you are and a lot of people would see that you get eyeballs on my cricket brand and I would rather give my sponsor someone a cricketer who is you know you can bring highballs and usually obviously being very lucky to be popular in you know in when i played cricket then someone who's highly skillful but doesn't have the the brand or is not a popular cricketer do you know i mean so that's really interesting you know when i had that conversation and it gave me the incentive that actually i need to i need to you know dial into this and make it my strength and and try and when I'm working on any opportunities like the media, like the coaching, like businesses, this is what I can bring to you guys.

1:03:14And then hopefully people can see the benefits and the value of it. Yeah.

1:03:17Monty Panesar:Well, look, your YouTube channel that you've started is going to be a good way to do that because the best thing about those kind of things is that you are your own producer. You can create whatever content you want. No one's telling you how to be or what to do. Absolutely. You know, I think sports people now, we live in the digital age, you know, digital journalism is massive at the moment and people want unfiltered, highly opinionated views on, you know, things that are happening in sport because the normal cricket fan, the fans, you know, are the biggest stakeholders in sport. They want to hear that.

1:03:48They don't want to hear just the same old boring stuff, you know. They want to hear, you know, proper, in-your-face kind of stuff, highly opinionated, highly judged views because that's what creates, you know, the interest and the traction.

1:04:01Monty Panesar:Look, Monty, it's been amazing having you in the chat. I think, as I said, you know, from watching you for so many years as a fan, you get an impression. And I'm so, so pleased to see that that impression actually is genuine and real because it's been a lot of fun having a chat with you. And I think that you've got some really exciting stuff going forward. But thank you so much for showing an interest. And thank you for wanting to come and join us because it is a really, really fun thing to do when we get a person that's engaged as you've been today. thank you so much for the opportunity to give me the platform to talk about my journey about correlation between sports and business and also my cricketing journey and hopefully England win the World Cup England win the World Cup and I said it here first on your podcast you said it here first it'll make a great clip thank you thank you

1:04:51Monty Panesar:thanks so much to Monty for coming on the show truly one of the most iconic cricketers of his generation and a fun one for me as someone who grew up watching him play and remembering those great England moments. We often talk about the difficulties of life after sport, staying relevant, building a brand, and it's great to see Monty finding out what can give him the same fulfilment he got playing for England. Now if you want to see more from today's show, you can do so by going to YouTube or any of our other social channels across Instagram, TikTok, and of course now Substack. There are more snippets to share and bite-sized chunks to consume, and whilst you're there, please do like, subscribe, and follow the show.

1:05:24Monty Panesar:As you'll hear from your other favourite pods, it makes a huge difference when bringing you the best guests and conversations from the world of sport, which of course is our endless aim. Thank you again for tuning in and we'll see you next week. The business of sport is supported by Airwallex, the intelligent financial platform used by more than 200 ,000 modern businesses from SaaS and marketplaces to some of the most ambitious organizations in sport, including McLaren Racing, Arsenal and the San Francisco Giants. The off-pitch problem is simple. Your supporters, sponsors and partners are everywhere, but the money that connects them is still stuck in slow expensive systems, wire transfers that take days, fees that quietly eat into revenue and clunky processes that make simple things feel hard.

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