Petr Cech: “Not One Manager Was Fired Because They Weren’t Good Enough”; Chelsea’s Win At All Costs Mentality (Ep103)

29:44Or did he get better and better? So he was the best goal scorer that year when I was, before we, so we joined Chelsea at the same time. So that kind of created our connection as well, because, you know, we have new players and then actually I knew him from the league. He, at the beginning, obviously he found it slightly different because obviously the intensity, because he's a beast. So in France, like the physical allowance from the referee was different to when you come to the Premier League, everything's faster, more intense, more physical. So sometimes you need a little bit time to adjust to that.

30:23and I think he took his time for a couple of months, but then once he got going, then we know exactly how. But you could see him in practice. You could see the way he practiced, the preparation, and the way he was. Then you just go, okay, it's just a matter of time when things start happening for him. You sometimes see the process and the way people work. You just go, okay, they do the right thing. There is ultimately, there is no way the success would avoid you. If you keep doing the right thing, it has to happen. The worst thing is that when people start doubting, you know, you go and you do your thing and you reach certain level because you do, you work certain way and you do certain things really well, then things are not going well and you start overthinking.

31:12And this is where a lot of people get lost because they start finding things that they should not. My advantage, for example, is that I don't care about that. I know exactly what I want to get out of my preparation. I know what works and I know what I need to be successful on the pitch. And if there is a three-week period where I don't feel that everything is happening, if I keep going, I know I will just go through it and then I will get back on track. But not everybody can do that. But with DJ, you could see the preparation and the way he trained. and as well we were kind of a new team so before people find out okay we play a certain way with him then everything connected and then obviously it was good for him.

31:58Did the spine of that team you just mentioned a number of the players there you, JT, Fran Lampard, Didier Drogba did that circumvent the need for consistency from the manager's position because you had that strength that went down it's a conversation people always have about Chelsea How did they churn managers and keep winning? From my experience, I can tell you that none of the managers left because they were not good managers or because they would not understand football. None of them. So everybody were top professional. Everybody was top football expert. They knew coaching. They knew tactics.

32:38They knew everything. when you have the manager leaving a top club it's never because they are not they don't understand football or they don't know what they are doing it always happens two ways it's either breakdown in communication with the team or breakdown in communication with the board there's only two ways nobody leaves because you would not be good at coaching because you would never ever end up in that place in the first place but there is something along in the journey where the communication breaks down one way or another then it creates issues and then everything leads to changes because if you take the team then what happens is and you see it often is that the team sucks a manager at some point wins a couple of games okay next couple of games and then usually goes back to where it was.

33:37And then you realize it's more about the team than any manager because there's a little bit of a rule of, you know, if you have, I would say from the 25 member squad, so if you have 14 happy,

33:568 okay and 3 not happy, and you keep it this way, you're fine. Once the 3 becomes 6 once the 8 becomes 12 you start having an issue and once the unhappy take over the happy ones or the ones who are okay then you're out. 14-8-3 is a good ratio. If you were to apply that to Chelsea today what would that ratio be? I don't know but if you look at the side of the squad then you probably have 22 not even on any list. But that was Frank's problem, wasn't it? Frank said that when he came in. But this is the thing, you know, if you have too many people who are in a bad individual situation, their motivation goes down, their happiness goes down, it's infectious.

34:56so you can easily kill the environment by having too many negative people and it becomes an issue because if you know that no matter what you do it leads to nothing how do you stay motivated how do you stay hungry how do you stay happy and it becomes increasingly more and more difficult so you know then the management of everything becomes increasingly more difficult So this is something, you know, on the paper you think like, okay, everybody is professional. So I pick this group, this group or this group. If you are involved, not involved, you're professional. No, it doesn't work like that. Everybody's human being and everybody gets affected in a certain way in your feelings and emotions.

35:41And then, you know, as I said, if you create environment, you know, people infect, it's like infectious, you know. So if you have too many negativity, then the negativity grows fast and then you have problems. I got asked the other day on here is interesting how do you feel about Chelsea right now as a fan and and I said oh well you know I'm a bit disillusioned with it because I don't feel I've got really good access to the ownership I don't feel communication has been strong and quite rightly they turned around they said well and you think you got that from Abramovich's era I said I was like fair point but what I felt like I had I think from the outside what you felt you understood is while there wasn't outward communication from a leadership there was a clear standard that existed throughout and it was win whatever happened the expectation was at the end of a season we'd have a major trophy at the end of it and so while that wasn't communicated directly to me it was almost made so clear by the actions of everyone associated with the performance of the club i think the the one part that was obvious that football always was first no commercial activity ever went ahead of football performance so there was a lot of things that were you could argue that the club could have done more trips, more commercial stuff, more for entertainment.

36:59No, it was all put on the side because the first thing was, okay, the manager wanted more training sessions. Okay, football comes first. So of course, you need to run the financial fair play. You need to do everything in the way that the club can exist and earn enough money and all that. So I think the club was run that way. But as a player, you felt that everything is made for football reason, for like performance on the pitch. And that was clear and obvious, and this is why I think the club was successful as well. So while you have to do all the obviously business side of it, but it was never, the business side never overshadowed the football performance.

37:36So there would be no compromises in terms of the football preparation, football performance. So even when you go pre-season tour and you do all these things where you have a lot of commercial activities, it was always structured the way that football was never kind of distracted and the performance and the preparation was never distracted by the business side of things. And that was actually something you appreciate as a player, you really appreciate. Because it can be the other way around and then you chase. But then one thing you have to understand is that, you know, in the end of the day, the value of everything comes from winning the trophies.

38:12do you think not winning the Champions League in 2008 and it taking four more years do you think that kept that group of players together for longer no because we were that strong and that good and I think everybody understood that obviously we needed new players to refresh the group but the core was there the spine was there and that's why our team was kept together and as well the leadership and the way the team was then I think that was the value of keeping it together. And of course, we knew we were running out of time. I think if we didn't win the Champions League in 2012, that group would obviously be dismantled and that would be it.

38:52So like that, you know that you're coming to the end of an era when slowly people will be leaving and all these legends will be moved on or replaced. But we managed to win it. That was actually the end of one of the cycles. Did you have much interaction with Abramovich? We're seeing a lot of press and focus around the ownership of Chelsea stay and their interaction with players sometimes, even halfway through games. Did you have much interaction with him? No. He was around. We knew we have the support. We knew he's around. He came to the games. We knew he cared. And it was when we needed something or something was going on, and then obviously we knew that you know he cares and he's there and he actually, you know, it's there.

39:46But at the same time, you would never see him, you know, around the matchday dressing rooms and things like that. No, he was the owner there. We knew and everybody respected him. We knew who the big boss is. but at the same time there was no, you know, there was no, the coaches were the bosses of the dressing room and the players were playing and it was like that. Do you think football's changed a lot since you stopped playing? When you look at the relationships and the power influences and the managers and the styles that you can get away with now and the owners that we see, it seems like such a different world.

40:21Yeah, but everybody has their own way of doing it. You know, I don't think there is right and wrong. Like if you want to do it a certain way, do it a certain way. So everybody has his right, you know, if you buy a football club, You run it the way you want. But you will be judged by how well you run it and how much you win. That's the part. If you ask any fan, you are a fan. I'm a sports fan. If you tell me, oh, we have the best business results in the last three years in the whole Europe. Okay, how many trophies? Zero. I don't care about that. It's your problem. You do your business, but I want to see my team win.

40:57We just lost Daniel Levy. Daniel Levy, we're sorry. Keep watching. No, no, but if for some teams, actually being the best business in Europe, like if you take Brighton, being the best business in Europe and having the financial success and business model that works while you're finishing seventh, eighth, or sometimes you play for European spot, I think that's the position where the club is because you don't expect them to challenge for the title. with all the respect you know that's not their probably target or they know where they sit, where they are. Maybe they work towards it, but at this moment, the way they do their things, they are absolutely brilliant, but you don't expect them, but they are brilliant for that type of business and for that type of football club.

41:53If you take Chelsea after all this winning, all you expect is to keep winning. And that's the standard you get. So, of course, you want to do things right. You want to have a good relationship with the fans. You want to have a strong squad and you want to have a business side run well. But ultimately, it's all about, you know, that club is all about winning. And this is the part nobody can forget. And it's hard to be winning. As much as you think it's easy if you do the right business plan, if you do this and you think it's not guaranteed you're going to win. But how do you manage to win all the time then?

42:35You need to know how to do it. Not everybody knows how to do it. People who have never been there sometimes don't know how to do it. Some people need people around them to make the extra step. Some people will never reach it, some people will reach it easily. The beauty of sport is that you can see all of this. and only certain people manage actually to be winning and it's not easy. And I think sometimes, you know, people get too, I would say, too used to winning, you know, because you keep winning and every year, and even City was winning every year, everybody said, yeah, every year this season is bad, we are second, we're third and it's bad.

43:21Can I push you? No, it might not be bad. When did you get too used to winning and how did you stop that becoming complacent? We never got really because we were always, you know, it's infectious as I said. When you have people who live for winning, it's with you. And nothing else but winning would count for you. So that's the part where I go. When I go on the pitch, I go there not to play. I go there to win. And I don't care what the circumstances are. I want to win. Otherwise, I would not even bother to go on the pitch. And we had the group that was like that. and everybody was like that. The club was like that.

44:00Everything was like that. So basically, forget about how long it takes. No, now. That's now. You go there and you win. That's all you want to do. And if the opponent's better, okay, might be better. But you have to see that you play to win and you have to see the intention of everybody to go there with the same level of motivation. Okay, we are here to win. Okay, it might not be pretty. Okay, who cares? You want to win? fine fine I think the beauty of of that is today everybody speaks about oh you play certain style forget the style you either win or you don't can play the most beautiful football if you never win what's the point it's not the point I think the beauty of the sport and winning is that if you find a way to win no matter how good how bad you feel at the day no matter how difficult the opponent is no matter how you know what you have to do to jump over the last hurdle and actually get those three points.

45:00It might not be pretty, but you have to know it's an art. I think finding the way to win in difficult circumstances, it's an art. And not everybody can do that. That's why not everybody can win. And if you want to play football only one way and you believe it's going to be enough, it's not going to be enough. And I think even City winning, they play a certain way, but it's not always pretty. Those years they were winning, it was not always pretty. Sometimes they use more long balls from Ederson behind the back. It was not only tiki-taka. No. They actually can play long balls, short balls, mediums, through balls, keep possession, or play fast.

45:38This is how you win. You adapt to the circumstances of the game. Our winning season, the double season, the title, second title, the fourth title, 2014-2015, we played different style of games when we needed to. because we knew that, okay, this is not working, we're not going to win this way. Okay, let's keep it simple and just make sure that we beat those guys different way. And we managed and we adapted to that and we found a way to win. And this is why we were winning. Because I think that's as well the quality of the team. You find that it's not only, okay, we have one card. If it's not working, sorry, we only have one card.

46:22No, you should have all the tools and all the different ways that you can adapt and actually find a way to win. This is what football should be about. And I'm actually watching football nowadays sometimes. I get upset with it because you can clearly see that certain things are not working and the team is struggling and they don't change anything and they try to do the same thing all over again when you know it's not the day to do it this way. It will not work. and then one thing is to believe in what you do another thing is to be blind so there's a fine line between that and then you should be able to say today we are not good don't try to do too much, just make sure you play simple, effective, you get your point and if you can get three get three, if you can't just get your point and move on because today is a bad day sometimes you're on the pitch and you know this is a disaster, nothing's going to happen.

47:20So you need to find a way to get the most out of it. And not just say, okay, let's do the same thing and hope. No, if you go to pitch to hope, then you don't, you know, hoping is not good enough. You have to have a clear plan. Okay. It's not working. We are not in a good shape. Everybody's tired, three injuries. Who cares? Just find a way to deal with it and make sure that there is an opportunity to take the most out of it.

47:48You people forget about that football is actually a beautiful game where sometimes playing simple is the right way sometimes playing possession game is the right way and sometimes mix it up is the right way so there is no right or wrong you need to find a way to control the ball control the game play with the space and if sometimes playing with the space is that space is behind then you play behind but this is this is what i sometimes have the difficulty watching the game nowadays but did Did your perspective change personally when you had that horrendous injury? I'm sure many people know why you played with a cap for the rest of your career.

48:26You have that moment on the pitch. It's not a stretch to emphasize to people that you nearly died on the pitch. To then even be able to come back and then have the career that you have. From a personal point of view, that must have been a win every single time you stepped on there. Because that was a very real threat to you ever being able to do the thing that you built your whole life to do. No, of course, you feel happy that you actually can carry on with the life you want. What was my dream and what was my goal? And at the moment, you know, there was a moment in that recovery journey when I thought, okay, this is not going to happen.

49:01It's not going anywhere. But at the same time, in my mind, the only thing I had in my mind was, Because, okay, I give myself the best chance to come back. And if I give all the chances I can to come back and I never could, then I wouldn't have had any regrets. Because the worst thing that eats you is not a lost game, is not a failure, is not a mistake, is actually the regrets. And that's why I always say preparation is the key. First, the preparation breeds your confidence and as well eliminate the regrets. Because if I know I go to the game and I prepared the best possible way and everything goes wrong, I go home thinking, okay, I couldn't have done anything because I prepared the best possible way.

49:54I was in the best condition to succeed. It was a disaster. Okay, that's life. And you move on. If that happens and you look, oh, Tuesday I was not good. The Wednesday I was lazy. Thursday I was supposed to watch the video, I didn't. And then Friday I was late watching whatever, Netflix. And then Saturday it kicked me in. You know, I got slapped because I made three mistakes. Then sits a whole week with you. You go like, oh, that was stupid. That was my own mistake. So that you have these regrets. So I always try to do things that I don't have those regrets. And that was the same with my recovery.

50:29I was like, okay, I'm going to do everything. And if it goes wrong and then the doctor tells me, okay, there's no way you can play again. Or I will not feel like I can. or it will not be the same and I won't be able to reach the same level and therefore, of course, it's all about your head. If you can't move fast and have a decision-making fast, if you don't see the same thing, if you feel apprehensive or if you feel fear going onto the pitch, then it will not happen. You can't play like that. You said there are moments when I thought, oh, it might not happen, it might not happen. I think, apparently, one of the sad things about society today is so many people doubt themselves and we've never seen depression like we do today.

51:07What do you say to people or advise people who have severe doubt in themselves and their abilities moving forwards? No, in that moment when I saw that I'm recovering, but I have bad days, and I thought, okay, if it carries on like that, maybe I won't be able to recover to play. I was like, okay, what do you do next? I started, honestly, I started thinking about if this goes wrong, okay, goes wrong, what do you do next? I didn't sit on, it will be a disaster. No, I was thinking, okay, what do I do next? do I do coaching? Do I do this or do I do that? What will be my actually idea of what to do?

51:42And then I just moved, you know, I shift my thoughts about, okay, I still do and carry on what I'm doing. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, okay, if it goes wrong, then I want to do that. And I started thinking, okay, if in three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, I see that disaster struck then at least I have a first idea what which way I want to go because I didn't want to think about empty space of sitting and dwelling on or I can't play anymore I wanted to have to focus on something else already that I didn't have the dark thoughts but then it was only in the back of my mind because my full attention was okay no matter how bad it feels I still give it a go so that That was the two levels of my thinking was that.

52:31So of course you need to, like you cannot tell yourself it's the disaster is not real. No, it was real. Actually the threat of that was real. But so acceptance of it, I think this is what is good. You have to accept sometimes it might go wrong. So if you go to the game with only one plan, say, okay, we go there and we'll be brilliant and we win, and it goes wrong, and you're not prepared for the eventual disaster, you might collapse. I think that what happened to Brazil in that 7-1 game in World Cup, whatever it was with Germany, because they only had plan A, we win a game. And then it was going the wrong way.

53:13Nobody, you know, the emotion took over, and they were dead. So I was like, okay, I don't want to... You have to accept that sometimes there are two outcomes, good or bad. and you have to accept it. Nothing is going to be 100 % one way or another, but I had that. And that was actually helping me focus on my recovery, but knowing that, okay, if the disaster struck, I'm ready to do something else. And what I learned about that was actually that, you know, it's always good to think ahead, not to wait for something to happen. So we always have a plan, no matter what. You know, you don't want to, you don't have to execute it now, but knowing where you're going.

53:57And the second thing was that there are far more important things than just football game. Because I was really like obsessed with every detail, everything. And sometimes, you know, you go like, oh, you can, you could probably relax a little bit. And I couldn't. But after that injury, I'm like, okay, there are far more serious things than just football game. So it allowed me to see things from a slightly different perspective, that I was not too obsessed with little... I was still obsessed with details and doing things right, but on the emotional side, I was like, OK, I can accept that there will be some failures.

54:32And it actually made me feel easier about certain failures. Do you think goalkeepers are undervalued for their importance to teams? Yes, but I think the people who are involved in the team, I think they understand it, but sometimes from the outside world, yes. I think goalkeepers are undervalued. And, you know, you always, if you talk to people about the importance of the goalkeeper, sometimes I think it's, you know, if you have a great goalkeeper and good team, you probably have a better chance than having a great team with not a good goalkeeper. because the difference of one save and the importance of the security is sometimes more important because, you know, people, we know if you don't trust your goalkeeper, you're dead.

55:26Pretty much like that, I would say. If you don't trust the goalkeeper can bail you out if you make a mistake or help you out with an important save, then you start thinking about, oh, we can't let the team shoot, oh we can't let dude do that oh he will not help me out I can't make a mistake and you basically these thoughts take you away from your process of playing your game What do you think about the different styles now? When you were playing everything was geared much more towards that presence shot stopping maybe and now you're looking at playing with feet the demands on keepers the amount of balls they receive from defenders the insistence on playing out from the back and the increasing opportunities for mistakes to happen What do you think now about what makes a goalkeeper a really good keeper?

56:07It is more risky, but there are two things. So when you watch the game nowadays, somebody starts playing from the back, quickly you see who's pretending and who actually knows what they are doing. And there's a lot of teams that are just pretending that they think they know what they are doing. Because you can clearly see it. It's like first option is, oh, okay, I'm under pressure, I give it to the goalkeeper. He can, whatever he does with it, I don't care. Because it gives the easy option to everyone. You know, instead of finding solution, breaking lines and trying to figure out, okay, I have a ball, I need to do something with it.

56:43Okay, first pressure, kick it to the keeper and say, okay, fine, deal with it, my friend. Now we are allowed to give it to you, then deal with it. And you can see, sometimes you have this that people start playing from the back. 30 passes and five minutes later, the goalkeeper has a ball. There was no chance created, no opportunity to break lines, no real intention of anybody breaking the lines and actually take the game forward and score. It's just passing, passing, passing. 30 passes later when you have probably 15 heart attacks thinking, oh, that was close or we almost lost it. It goes to the starting point.

57:20So what is the point? This is where I go. This is the team who pretends. Then you have teams where clearly you start, you bring the people out of their defensive shape you break lines, you turn the game and you go to attack, you create chance then you just go, okay, this is the team who actually uses the short game, short build up to the benefit, to win, to create space, to create control and to score goals and there are not many teams play actually like that, there's a lot of people now who because it's becoming the way of playing, they want to do it a certain way, some people demand it maybe they want to do it because it should be like that, shouldn't be like that.

58:02I go back to the beginning, play the game that means make the opponent struggle. You take control over the space, the ball, possession, and then you create chances to win a game. This is what you should play, and this is what I feel there is a difference in the goalkeeping point. A goalkeeper who can make saves will still be more valuable, because if you look at the amount of buildups the goalkeeper creates, end up in the back of the net, it will be a very small percentage. But the amount of important saves that wins you the game, it's much bigger. So the goalkeeper overall still has to be a goalkeeper.

58:41You want the goalkeeper to be strong, to make important saves, to have the presence. Of course you want him to be able to play because there are moments where you create numerical advantage using the goalkeeper. You should not use him as a playmaker because what's the point of having a playmaker in your own box? You need to score on the other side. So involve your players, break lines, take control. If it means using the goalkeeper, use the goalkeeper. If the player can make it himself, make the player make it himself. So this is where I see it. Sometimes the goalkeepers get passes is where the defender can easily deal with it and break lines and play it, but it just becomes an easy option for everyone.

59:25Just kick it to the keeper and let him deal with it. And I think this is where the coaching will need to be better in terms of making sure that the players actually don't use it as an easy way out of pressure. When you look, for example, the Arsenal way, when you look back at the Invincibles, it was not only a nice footballer as well. When you look at some of the games they managed to draw. They had like 12 draws. So they had some difficult games. They were coming from behind and not every game was pretty. So although they played really nice football, majority of the times, there were some ugly games they won.

1:00:02So I think that kind of says like, okay, you know, they were known for the Arsenal way and playing Arsenal really wanted to play everybody nice football, technical, fast. But they played, you know, they actually knew how to play not only in a nice way. They had some tough guys in the team and that's why they won the invincible season. It actually shows that it's not only about nice football. No matter how great that team was great. Our team was the same thing. 9-10 season when we won a double. We played majority of the league. It was beautiful football. High scoring games and open games, attacking football.

1:00:43But some of the games were ugly. Like with Bolton, Blackburn, we were kicking the shit out of each other, like whole game. It was unbelievable. But this is where you win the league. This is how you actually find a way to win the title, because you adapt. Okay, you come with the rough style, fine, we can match you. And if you can't, too bad, but you should be able to. You should be able to. The strength is not only playing nice football, it's to know that, okay, for that type, okay, we need to figure out how to how to go through you and beat you and then this is what you need to know as well so you know if you play only one style and you can only play one style if you run in difficulty and you can't adapt then you have a problem the 2012 final was a great example of you playing against a team where no one really gave you a chance because everyone assumed the fact that Bayern Munich were playing at home and it was a Champions League final it was just almost made for them.

1:01:44But you mentioned that, you know, just be the team that someone else doesn't want to play against, play to win. If you're going into a game like that where people don't give you a chance, does that help you or does it hinder you? Okay, I tell you. When JT got sent off in the semifinal in Barcelona and Inista scored the second goal, how many people would put money on us going through? So I think the same amount of people would probably give us a chance of going to the final and win it there. when Bayern played home game and they were the really best team with Barcelona that year. They were the two best teams in Europe.

1:02:24So we knew, okay, this is going to be a tough job. But every game starts 0-0. And as I said, you don't go there and think, okay, we match them and we'll play beautiful football. No, this finalists dare to win. Who cares how you win it? Do you remember how people won it in 2003? Who won it and how? no you remember the winner do you think every game does start nil nil as stupid as that sounds i can look you in the eyes before the game and go i'm gonna eat you and and and the fear that you can see in some teams it's already lost no still no no it's still no no but it's not that the the fans you know a crush team it's in your head it's in your head ultimately it's in your head.

1:03:12If you believe, you know, if you go to the game thinking I have no chance, then you will have no chance. Of course, you cannot be not realistic. You know, sometimes you go and you go, okay, this is a team who has no chance. Okay, let's do everything that we give ourselves a chance. So it doesn't mean that you have to throw a towel straight away and you just go, no, there are certain things you can do to actually give yourself the hope and give yourself a chance. And then you just go step by step. And as I said, sometimes you have games where you don't feel well. You start the game and you just go, oh, this is going to be a disaster.

1:03:48But then you just go, okay, if you accept it's going to be a disaster and you put your head down and you say, okay, it's not our day, whatever, or you just go, okay, this is actually rubbish, but we can still get the most out of it. And this is what I was doing. For example, you go to the warmup. We played a lot of games, traveled. It catches you up sometimes. You go to the warmup and I'm like, There were two games in my life where I went to the warm-up. One was at Stamford Bridge. And I said to the goalie coach, I said, I think we're better if I don't play. And he said to me, what? And I said, Christophe, I've never felt so bad.

1:04:26Like, I'm out of sync. I feel tired. Like, it almost feels like the ball flies. The coordination is off. I feel awful, tired, overworked, and overwhelmed. And I said to him, I said, this is going to be a disaster. Maybe I should not even play. and then he said, what do you mean? And I said, okay, fine, let's get a little bit more shots and see how I kick a couple of balls I go in. And then you walk out, and I walked out and thinking, oh, my God, this might be a disaster. And I was like, okay, let's keep things simple. So I went to the game and thinking, okay, don't do anything complicated. You see the ball, just catch it.

1:05:06Don't try to do stupid passes. Don't try to chip anyone. and don't try to go through ball, just get the ball, get it out, first ball, and then I did one pass, second pass, one good catch. And I felt like, you know what, actually it's not that bad. So I kept it simple, and then in the end of the day, I ended up with the man of the match. Because then I just kept it simple, made a couple of big saves, and then we won, I think, one nil. Yeah, I think one nil. and then he said to me you realize that you end up with the man of the match and you wanted to almost not to play and I said well it just shows you that you might feel great in the warm up and it might be a disaster in the game and vice versa it's just sometimes the emotions play a game with you so when you go to the game where you think okay everything goes wrong you just go okay it goes wrong but that is still nil nil nobody beat you at the beginning nobody can beat you without scoring, nobody can beat you.

1:06:05They still have to do the job and if they do and beat you fine. But if you go with that okay we're not in the best shape but you have to still beat us and if you don't accept just easily to lie down it will be difficult for everyone with everything. When I'm in goal I just don't go like I hope you hit me or I hope I guess the right side. Sometimes I watch and I go, hmm, maybe this guy is there and hoping that he reads it well and then he saves it. I was there and I'm like, okay, my friend, I'm here. Beat me. And if you can beat me, fair play. I give it to you. Okay, so fine question, apologies.

1:06:49You talk about that. Robin stands up to take a penalty. Are you watching him and making a decision based on movement or are you making your decision beforehand knowing where you're going? So prior to this final, we took every member of the Bayern squad and we took every penalty of Bayern squad members since 2007. So I watched every penalty of anybody in the team who could possibly be on the pitch and shoot since 2007. So five years worth of penalties. Everyone, every penalty we found. and so it was a long watch. So I made notes. Goalkeeper coach made notes. Hilario made notes. I think Jamal Blackman made notes.

1:07:37Ross Turnbull was there, made notes. Then we sat in the meeting. We shared the notes, and we watched it again, compared the notes. Then we made a plan. Probability, you look at probability, data, everything. So everything's there. then that penalty happened and you go ok, it's a Champions League final 104th, 5th minute whatever it was you know how stressed you are, how tired you are it's a left footed player with a really strong shot Arian has a really strong shot he has short back cliff he hits it, he hits it, he goes fast he can curl it obviously but then you just go would you try to curl a perfect shot when you're tired, stressed in that moment, or you know you have a strong shot, so you basically hammer it across because left foot easier and you make it hard for everybody to save it.

1:08:35I was like, okay, I think he's going to go rather with that because it gives him better chance. When you're stressed, your motorical senses are not as... It's not working that well sometimes, so you want to curl a nice one and you miss it it and you put it in the middle of me height and it looks bad so i was like okay he's gonna try to shoot hard and if he's left footed probably bigger bigger possibilities that it goes across so this is what i was uh hoping for and then the way he he run towards the ball i'm like okay his shape the run the angle i'm thinking okay he's gonna shoot strong of course he could have shot different way but then you know it does a lot of calculations in that how do you maintain that mental composure though when you hear every crowd member you know the weight of it you see robin coming bluntly most people in as polite a way as i can say it shit themselves and you are thinking about every video that you've seen and you maintain how Well, the one thing is as well, you need to stop thinking about that your legs feel like jelly, you shake, your heart is 185, all that.

1:09:56So you just go, you need to find a way just to reshuffle and literally go with the process. And of course there is a big difference between elite athlete and everybody else. Because if you take the amount of practice, the years you play, in that moment, it counts for nothing. It's only your head. If you manage to go through that noise of all the expectation, everything around, crowd, big moment, Champions League final, millions of people watching, Beverly last chance, if he scores, we are out or we're dead. You need to just forget about all this and you just go, okay, what's my job? what is the possibility what can happen what is he gonna do how i can stop it when you do that and you always hear stories about you know michael jordan and tiger woods and they take any other elite athlete from the past and present you know the difference ultimately it's it's not their physical ability it's not only their technical ability it's obviously a bit of a talent but it's the head can you do that under pressure yeah so when i got to the shootout you probably felt pretty good because you knew you'd done the research on every single player yeah but doesn't guarantee you anything but you go there and thinking okay with all that research and all that preparation i knew that i'm prepared and i can tell you the first one i touched second one i was there but he shot it too well then no year obviously i was waiting for a shot in the middle then i went a bit too late and then he scored on the third after the first i went to the side and i said to myself just keep going it's inevitable you're gonna save one because like it's impossible that you go right away all the time and they would keep avoiding you.

1:11:35And the more my knowledge went there, I'm like, okay, this is the one, this is the one, and then I saved. But then, and then obviously coming back to preparation, in I think the season eight, nine, that was when Schweinsteiger shot a couple of penalties where he stopped. After that, he didn't do that anymore. So actually the depth of the preparation actually saved me because when he started running, I was like, I'm not sure, I'm not sure. The moment he stopped, I'm like, okay, I know where you go. Because he did the pause in the run-up. As a keeper, do you like the pause? I was like, you know, all that preparation, the hours, and actually digging the five years back.

1:12:17I was actually in that one moment, it all came. Because you got a touch on that, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. But then it looked like you were trying to get out of the way. I was worried that he was going to hit me. I was so worried he was going to hit me on my heel. along my back. And then it was probably further than, it was probably quite far. But you know, that moment he goes, oh, please. I'm going to be honest, I think he was a bit more worried. Yeah. You were worried from home. Maybe it was a bit, I was worried. Quite the same. So then, yeah, yeah. But then you realize, you know, the preparation sometimes is the key.

1:12:48Little details are the key. And this is what going five years back was ultimately decided that penalty. Of course, maybe if we carry on, maybe you save another one or not, you might win, you might lose. but at the same time, you know, this is what made a difference for me. I see, Adjo, you chase something for so long, when you actually achieve it, it can feel very different to how you imagine. You know, you guys have been looking for that trophy for so long. It was crazy 30 seconds. Ah, it was absolutely crazy 30 seconds. It's like a blackout. You scream, you run, you're happy, all the adrenaline and happiness comes out.

1:13:20I've never experienced anything like that. Because, of course, when you win a league or if you win the cup, but it's kind of like you lead to that, you know, 38 games in the league so you sort of know okay when it happens you might expect it but you know the cup final is different but it's a cup final but it's not a champions league final when you chase that you know we were in five semi-finals and then one final and kept avoiding us and that year was probably the least expected for from out of the years it was not going so well so we had our issues and our problems but we managed and I think that was purely the mentality of the squad How was it for you to adapt?

1:14:04You spent 11 years at Chelsea and then you make a move to the big rivals what was the process like for you to be able to go from that environment and then move into a different one and almost start from scratch in a new place It was the same You know, you go there, I went there with the same dream and same intention. That was to bring the league, bring the title to get the Champions League. So you don't think about, okay, it's a rival, it's this and that. No, you know, is it not hard? You go there, it is hard because it feels strange. The first couple of games you just go, okay, it feels a bit foreign, but then you just go, that's your team, that's your club, that's your motivation.

1:14:50and that's your life and then you just go okay I'm here to win like no matter what no matter what I'm here to win I want to have that trophy at the end of the year How were the fans with you? I think the Chelsea fans understood that I gave everything I had those 11 seasons I gave everything I had to the club I literally almost died for the club so I think that they obviously they knew that when When Thibault started playing, I think they knew, okay, fine, the cycle is gone. I wanted to go, they knew I wanted to go. That was my wish as well. So I think people accepted it for everything I've done for the club.

1:15:36With Arsenal fans, I think the great part was that obviously they could see that every game I gave my best. I was there every day and I trained and I've done everything I could to bring the success to the club and it was, I think that's what people could see and this was what they appreciated and that was beautiful to see for me. How did Arsene Wenger compare to Jose in terms of management styles? They are completely different, but they have one thing in common. They both hate losing. Like, you know, sometimes people don't think, but Arsene hates losing. I can tell you and you can see it. He just get along, you know, they get about a different way than Jose, but they, you know, They both hate losing.

1:16:20So although it looks, obviously, the approach is different, the personality is different, both styles might be different, but they have this in common. Was this pitch to you to bring that experience that you'd had, the winning mentality into a team that, as you said, was pushing for titles they hadn't won in a long time? I think the one part people forget is that, obviously, when Arsenal moved to the new stadium, when they built Emirates, they, obviously, to keep in the financial fair place, they had to let some players go. So I don't think there was only like, okay, we want to play with all the academic players.

1:16:54No, I think the Arsenal great advantage was that in that time where they were paying for the Emirates and they couldn't really, you know, financially bring top players in, they were lucky they actually produced for that time to bridge that, that they actually produced their own products they could use and actually stay in the top four and play the Champions League football because they always play the Champions League football. So I think that itself was actually for a couple, maybe three, four seasons, actually a great achievement, which obviously gets, you don't really see it from that perspective, but there was not the fact that, you know, when Van Persie left and other players left and there was a little bit of time between Ozil came and Sanchez came and all the players started coming.

1:17:44it was after some time where the club was back in position to spend the money on them so I don't think it was intentionally that you play all the academy no it was because of the switch to the Emirates and I think for that for me Arsene should have gotten far more credit Do you hate losing more than you love winning? Oh definitely I love winning but I hate losing more definitely that's ultimately the worst losing is the worst feeling. Which loss hurt the most?

1:18:24So one would be obviously that two. One is the Moscow Champions League final because we were so close and I think that group really deserved to win it. And I think there are a lot of people who deserve to win it but we were close. unfortunately we couldn't jump over the last hurdle. And then the Europa League final loss with Arsenal to Chelsea. Really? That hurt really. Why? That was my last game. And that was one of the things I wanted to bring that trophy to Arsenal. I had it already with Chelsea, so I thought, okay, fine, this is not the time to get it with Arsenal. So that was the second one.

1:19:11That actually is the one that really sucks, even now, every time I think about it. Because after the halftime, I don't think the second half, we were not good enough. So it was 0-0 at halftime, was it? It was 0-0 at halftime. And then Giroud scored. We were in the game, and then Chelsea scored two quick goals. As soon as we started the second half, it didn't feel right for some reason. So that's the one. That was my guess, because that's mine. Barcelona in 2009. Barcelona 2009 yeah it was a terrible ref for the Barcelona yeah yeah but that's why I didn't like okay sometimes you get you know the ref the ref was the ref but but I think it was made worse because of what happened in 2008 and then it was it was a man you were in the final so it would be a repeat of the final we would have won that year I'm convinced we would have won that year get over it bro he's still in therapy for this one he's gone over it Iniesta's goal was outrageous though not that there are a lot of things You look back and you just make sure blood boils.

1:20:13He's one of those. You played against Messi and Ronaldo, two of the greats. If I were to say to you, who gave you bigger dreads, which one would you say?

1:20:30See, I didn't look at this this way. For me, you prepare for every player because we play top teams, so every player, top team. I hate playing against Rooney, for example, because Rooney can do everything, and he's everywhere. He doesn't give you one second, and he can chip you from halfway line. He can press you when you get the back pass. He can score with the header, left foot, right foot. He tackles, he pushes, and he's everywhere. When you prepare for that, you don't really like it. Believe it or not, the guy who probably scored the most against me might be Shane Long. Shane Long? Every game he played against us, he scored.

1:21:17Like, for Hull, for West Brom, for Southampton. Like, honestly, I think… Shane Long is loving this podcast. No, no, no, no. But I can tell you… Nassi or Ronaldo, Shane Long. He did. He did. Actually, I think he did. Like, if I remember every single time, I'm thinking, how does he do that? Like against Chelsea generally, I think he scored all the time. So like, I don't know. You have nightmares and you see Shane. I don't know. But this is one of those people where he just, how does he even do that? I'm sorry to nudge you, but if I said to you, Ronaldo or Messi in the lineup, which one are you like, I'd rather face them than them?

1:22:04Okay, I have to say they are two different players like if you see Cristiano you have to admire the way like the relentless preparation, professionalism everything he puts into the game because it's hard work hard work of course he's got the talent but the hard work and the dedication it's amazing but when you look at Messi sometimes you feel on the pitch you think like the guy walks there like, you know, he looks like not interested and he touches the ball and and then there's a chance. It's a, you know, like somebody gets like luckily against us, it didn't really work for him, but you see at the games and just go, he walks around, walks around, then he gets the ball before you know, it's, you know.

1:22:56It's something, obviously there is something he can do like people can't do. So there is some sort of a gift where you just go, okay, that's special. And you can feel it. And less playing against Chelsea because I'm like Shane Long. He struggled to score against Chelsea for a long time. It took a long time. But that, like special players, like, you know, when you watch other players, like I played against Zidane, you think like he knows. It's like you send him an email saying, okay, in fifth minute, I will come to press you from this side. Can you move the other side? You know, it was just amazing to watch him.

1:23:32Ronaldinho at his best my god that goal in 2005 was it you take Ronaldo you just sit and watch he just takes the ball and he's gone and you just go oh my god how does he even do that there are so many plays you watch on the pitch and you just go how does he do that was that one of the best goals you've ever seen the jink that Ronaldinho did you know on the edge of the box at Stamford Bridge in the 4-2 you can see the last second you can see it coming but it comes with the top one and you just go ok now it's too late you didn't move did you yeah but I knew it's too late. I'm like, the moment the ball came, I'm like, okay, that's too late.

1:24:04He's conserving him. I know too. He can't shoot a good job. We won in the end, but... There's a moment where you kind of just calm yourself. But sometimes, but sometimes, you know, the sad reality is that sometimes you're in goal and somebody shoots and he's the top corner and just go, well, he deserved that. Good shot. If you manage, if you manage to do that, you just, you know, of course, you're not happy, but then, but you have to accept to think, okay, then you don't save those. just go okay fine you don't save those that's the life of a goalkeeper you made that transition from the pitch you said you stopped playing just after the final and you get a job straight away back at chelsea in a boardroom and we see a fair few players now making that move from the pitch into the boardroom on the technical side you said you said you hated losing and i'm interested just at the start of like how that transition for you when you go from winning and losing on the pitch to winning and losing in the boardroom and in a club how did that change your whole psychology around football.

1:25:01Okay, I'll tell you one thing. In 2021, I had far bigger satisfaction of winning the Champions League than in 2012. Because when you are in the boardroom, you realize how many people work towards that target behind the scenes. There are hundreds of people behind the scenes that are so vital and important that the team can actually perform, has everything to prepare. When you're in the team, obviously you do everything and the satisfaction, everything is beautiful. But then when you work on the other side and you see behind the scenes how much work goes behind, that the club works well, that the team gets everything they need, the manager gets everything, the preparation is not disturbed.

1:25:46Then you have people who go there from 9 to 5 every day, sits in the office, make sure that the admin works and everybody is happy. organization, logistics, everything, then the kitman from you don't even think when they sleep there in the laundry room on the mattress because they don't have time to go home and they prepare it. You don't see those. And if you compare it to how much they are paid to do their job compared to the players, you don't even consider it. And then you suddenly win it. And then you realize that the funds, the fund base, the amount of people who wishes you to win and they are there behind the scenes hoping you do it.

1:26:32People in the office who are there every day and hope they manage to do it because they are happy. Then suddenly you realize, okay, this is actually far more satisfying because you know how many other people, you are actually conscious how many more other people are actually happy and how much it means to them. so it's not only when you are on the player side everything is around the few people you get to see most of the time and work closely but then you when you realise that how many other there are hundreds of people who actually do that and you know how much it means to them and how happy they will be then you just go okay this is really satisfying and you play a part with it because if things are not working then it would relate on the pitch Did that surprise you?

1:27:22that feeling? It was a different feeling. It's a 100 % different feeling. The feeling was far more intense when you win it as a player. It's far more intense. But when you win it in that position and you're aware of how many people actually includes, including the fans, you just go, it's more satisfying. So that, two different feelings, but this was really satisfying, I have to say. When you went into the role, actually I was chatting with Harry Harry should ask this because he made a really good point and we were just having a chat 2019 was when Frank Lampard became manager and then Harry said to me it would be really interesting to understand how it was building a different layer of a relationship into something that you've had with someone before where you've always been on the same playing field you're both players in the same team so suddenly where one's a manager and one's working in the back room did that come naturally to you but did you have to work on that?

1:28:18It actually helps when you know the people, when you know exactly what to expect and you know what type of person you deal with and then you can find a better relationship, you have the mutual respect, it's actually better, obviously the circumstances are different but you're still on the same boat because the key is that the club, your intention is the same as the managers, you want to win, you want to make sure that everything works and you want to make sure that everything goes right away and that you win, you keep winning and that obviously the happiness is okay clubs winning the managers winning it's simple as that obviously you know sometimes you know in the circumstances that you know there are different circumstances for different decisions and you need to live with that because it changes all the time and that's the part of the job sometimes you know the advantage is obviously when you when you know the people you work with then you know when something happens how to speak to them how to you know how to get along with certain things because it's easier rather than you know finding way of speaking to someone you don't really know so you need to find this understanding so it helps but obviously it's um it's always related to okay how well you do the job and how well you you manage to make it work can i ask who really has the power in a team?

1:29:46Is it the manager? Is it the sporting director? Is it the owner? Well, it depends how you set it up. Normally, the responsible player, the person for the team is a coach. I tell him my view, and this is how I see it, and I firmly stand by it. To make the bigger picture clear, okay, the manager has so much time to prepare his own team. They have so many things to do. You deal with injuries, preparation, load, players form, individual players problems, whatever, you know, you have to speak, you have your own stuff, you prepare a game, then you win, lose, whatever, everything goes on. It's a never, it's a relentless job and it's actually never ending story.

1:30:25So you might have everything prepared and the doctor calls you in the morning, the two people have a high fever, can't train, everything changes, you need to, you need to, you know, change the team or change whatever, everything changes, then one of them is fit, the other one you think he might be and suddenly he's not. It's like there's so many random things you need to deal with. Then somebody might have a personal issue. Somebody gets injured in training. Then all your preparation and your idea for the game changes. Then you know you have information that the last game your opponent changed the system, then sent everything.

1:30:58So they have so much on hands-on. There's so much to deal with. They don't have time to scout plays. You know, your manager hardly seen anybody else playing for more than one game where you occasionally catch or somebody plays against you. So sometimes what happens is like, that's why you have scouting. That's why you have people who go and watch and make reports on players and scout them. And then when you go, okay, we are looking for the right back, then you just go, okay, what type of players do you want? So the manager tells you, I want this type of player because I want him to be able to this, this and that, whatever.

1:31:34So then you look what players are in that category, who is available or who you can buy, who would you like. Then you take all these reports and you put it on there. And this is when, for example, when your manager comes and says, I want to buy this player and you have 100 reports on the player saying that you should never buy him, that he's not good enough. What do you do? You go with the manager or you go against the manager? Because on the other hand, And if you bring those players and everything goes wrong, the manager leaves, then you are stuck with players you never wanted. So I think it should be all common ground.

1:32:09So you basically go, this is the player position you want. These are the players who fit the profile data and everything. There are five of them. You pick what is your number one, two, three, four, five. That we try to bring them in. If you can't bring one, you move on to another one. if you can't bring neither because either they don't want or nobody sells them or it's not the right deal, then do you bring someone as a panic button, the one you know you never want, or you just say, okay, that's better to leave it like that. And this is where it should be the balance to say, it should be, okay, the club should decide and agree with the manager.

1:32:53It should never be, okay, manager have a wish list and you go buy everyone because if that wish list works only for his footballer, then he leaves and then somebody else comes, then you're stuck with plays you never wanted and you think they are not good enough and you probably have a new manager who comes with another wish list and then you are in the vicious circle. So there should be a method and there should be a clear system how you do it. And obviously, there is a different thing. If you have a club structure that is the owner who decides because I like this player, I want him, that's fine.

1:33:26You know, that you can do it. We go back to you ultimately have people who owns the club or runs the club. And that's their choices and their way. What kind of club you want to have? If the owner or the manager or people who are in charge have this vision, they want to do it a certain way. They have all the right to do it a certain way. But what I mean is that they can do what they want. They will be judged by, okay, you buy this club who is meant to win everything. So you're going to be only judged by are you winning or you don't lose. you're not winning it's simple as that Fernando Torres walks in that Chelsea dressing room you guys must have been surprised no you want to bring the best players in and actually if you look okay Fernando was struggling because he came in in January and then sometimes coming half through the season is not really the best way and then you need to you know figure out the best is when you have a preseason because you have a preseason the player comes you get to know him you get to know the way what he needs and then you can work on it then you have more discussion like that.

1:34:27You throw the player in, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But if you look at the goals he scored, he scored some super important goals. You would probably expect him to score more goals in his Chelsea career, but the goals he scored are super important. You said about two words, vicious and circle, which Chelsea fans, it's not in the easiest of times generally. what would you do if I gave you 4 billion dollars and said I am going to put you in charge of Chelsea today what would you do to change things first I would sit for 6 months and watch because I would love to know what is now set up how things work I think it's a simple thing because you know I give you a question if I give you a soup and you had the pepper and salt, what do you do?

1:35:25You bring the soup, take the pepper and salt, put it in, mix it and then you eat it or first you eat it and then you realize it's missing a bit of salt and then you put the salt. You can choose, you can actually say, okay, I don't care what's there and I do it my way and then you can actually ruin it or you sit down and you say, okay, I sit down, I watch, I see what's working, what's not working, I make my point and then I will fix what I think it needs to be fixed and I keep what I think is working. And obviously that would be my first thing. Look, observe, see, and then try to improve what you think is there to improve.

1:36:00I think that would be the best practice you have. But in the end of the day, you look at the size of the club, you look at the history, and then you just go, one thing is clear. Everybody will be judged only by, okay, how much success you will have. Because that club always won a trophy. constantly you win a trophy, big trophy small trophy, whatever, you're always there and this is going to be what you're going to be judged if you buy a club who never won anything, then obviously you'll be judged by how well you run it how well you improve it, and okay if you win a trophy then you just go, oh my god well done and that's about that it really depends what club you have and what club you are and what you want to get out of it.

1:36:48And we can always, like, obviously, always argue about why it's not this way or that way. I might have my own opinions, but it's not my way of judging or my position of judging because maybe everything works the way people wish. I don't know. When you were in the technical director position and you mentioned earlier that Arsene Wenger was hard done by for finishing fourth and actually what an achievement it was. I always think that first season, when you were there and Chelsea weren't allowed to sign players and, you know, Frank got the team in a top four position, he brought so many of those young players through, that that's a really underappreciated achievement because he had to use, obviously, what was in the club.

1:37:29But then also, just based on what we were talking about, you must have then had quite a session planning for the next year when you could suddenly go out and buy when you started bringing in, was it Pulisic, Mendy, Werner, Havertz, Chilwell, that lot. Was that a tricky time because of having an inability to act or did it actually make it easier for you? No, I think the great, sometimes in the difficulties, it opens the opportunity for something great as well. So obviously, it was great that Frank had the, with Jordi Morris and Joe Edwards, obviously they knew the club. They knew the players in the academy because the coaches came through the academy.

1:38:13So that's a huge advantage that it was not like a blindfolded, okay, we put some bunch of kids in. And no, those guys won the Champions League under 19. They were through the ranks of the club. They were the club boys, you know, so they had the connection to it, like Mason, for example. And you just go, okay, so that's the, obviously, that's the option. The great thing was that he knew Mason, obviously, from the RB. He worked with him. So, you know, he said, no, I know he can, I like him. I think he will do the job. So it's great that he obviously used the players and Tommy and obviously others.

1:38:56And you just go, okay, that's brilliant. That was obviously the great thing for the club. On the other hand, these boys were supported by the team who finished third in the league and won the Europa League. minus Eden. So you have experience, you have people who won the European Cup and finished third in the league in the Champions League position. So those young players coming through, they were not thrown in the, you know, like they're on their own. No, they had the big support of experienced player and the team who was, as I said, finished third and won the Europa League. Of course you miss Eden because everybody misses Eden.

1:39:34He's a top player and if he's fit, then you will always miss him because he's special. He's one of the best players Chelsea ever had. This natural ability is obviously like that. So yeah, you miss them. Of course, you would rather have him in the team. But as I said, it was just one player out of that Europa League winning team missing. So you have the environment where you have the coach who knows the club. Luckily, he was great at bringing the younger players. and that's why we finished top four. I think that was obviously important. We got to do a quick five, my bro. Yeah. Okay.

1:40:18Who was the best manager you played under? I go with Jose. Love it. That was easy. I'm going to try. Can I go for another one? Who was the worst manager you played under? Okay, if you want one, I think the one which was probably the furthest away from my way of seeing football or working on doing things is probably Scholar. Because his approach was different to what I would expect. Put it this way. Great answer. High five.

1:40:55You famously went out and quelled a lot of fans during a European Super League when you were technical director. Completely unseen really in football when an executive goes on and does that. I loved it, obviously, but really interested. What were you thinking? What made you do that? Was it instinct? It was instinct. And I think the police guy walking with me was not happy at all because he was yelling at me, who can't go there, who can't go there? And I said, my friend, you're going to pull me out. If it's the worst case happening, so you have to pull me out. They were not happy. But no, no, it was.

1:41:31I was actually walking towards the stadium. And obviously I walked by and people were shouting at me and you have, and I'm thinking, okay, this is not right. There are a lot of things that, you know, probably need to be probably sold. So I felt this way. I just put my bag down and I walked in. Did you ever have a super lucrative offer to move abroad? Yes. Was it to China or to the UAE? and one was to France one was to Spain were you tempted? no I wanted to stay in the Premier League never at all about the money a bit? no I never I never I never like for me football was never about money it was I always believed that the best players should play the best league so I wanted to stay in the best league which signing who when brought in had the biggest positive impact?

1:42:30Drogba would be one and then would be on. Final one for me, we have a lot of athletes that listen to this. What have you found most useful about what you learned on the pitch and transitioning into the world that you're in now? What stays with you is obviously the discipline because the preparation and the discipline no matter what you do after that you know if you are always prepared and disciplined the mean you will be more prepared it gives you a platform to be successful in anything you do I think the teamwork, the understanding that if you do it with more people is actually, that more heads has more knowledge, more brains has more knowledge, and actually more people have together more power than one.

1:43:15And there's a lot of environments where it's a lot of about individuals, they're not really using the power of the group and the team. So that's probably the most useful part, that you understand how each role of every person in the team is important if you put it together. So I think that's probably something. And obviously, people who come from individual sports, then they probably will have that first thing, what I said, you know, the preparation and the discipline, because that's important. Petter, we cannot thank you enough for joining us. You have this unbelievable, like, mental stability that I'm jealous of.

1:43:57I don't know if you've got, I've just been like listening to him just thinking, I am like mentally all over the fucking place and this guy is just like, he's like just the most still watered calm. I'm like. I think you should go and work with. No, but everybody's different. Can you just come to the office? I'll pay you just for your calming ability. Some people need chaos to get the best out of them. Some people just, I'm honestly just the person who focus on process. That's what I'm interested in. How do you get from one point to another? Have you ever felt like a bit mentally fucked? What do you mean by that?

1:44:36Well, quite often I feel like quite mentally fucked. Like it's off kilter. No, but you have people that they strive in chaos and you have people who just need to come. So that's, you know, depends like, but as I said, you know, for some people, Like, maybe for you, the calm concentration on some process will not work. Some people need, like, for example, I'm a very creative person when the dark comes, when the silence comes. This is where all my creative thoughts start. And you have people who can't do anything in silence. They just need the chaos, and you need the noise and chaos and ideas and brainstorm and everything.

1:45:18and then you find the creativity in that. I become, when the dark comes, the quiet comes, then my creativity comes. Like my best work, anything I do comes through the night. I was burning the dark. No, no. No, no, but this is what I mean. In the end of the way, you know, it's the English. This is the first time I said it. like the English saying is that there isn't many ways to skin the cat. So whatever works for you, works for you. But the beauty is that you have to understand that what works for you doesn't work for someone else. You might be working with them thinking, I have to do it like I do it.

1:46:00No. And if I always say to people, OK, listen to people's stories. Listen to Michael Jordan. Listen to Tiger Woods. Listen to a lot of other people. But don't copy. A copycat is not the same. Copycat is not the same. don't copy take the part that suits you for you to be better then take that bit but then be yourself you have to be authentic anyway if you're not authentic it doesn't work anyway I love Petter that's so good it could be for hours yeah it's awesome thank you so much people will have found it fascinating it's how it translates as well into all the other things we're doing and so huge huge thank you for doing it and being such a good sport thank you for having me thank you so much to Petter for joining us one of the most inspiring conversations we've had and to have now completed the set of Chelsea's Champions League winning goalkeepers is an added bonus.

1:46:52It never fails to amaze me how much we can take from the experiences of a top athlete and apply them specifically to business or how much of a light it really shines on the workings of this world we don't get to see too much of beyond the pitch. This was a special one for us to record as I'm sure you can imagine and I hope you enjoyed it too. Now, if you want to see more from today's show, you can do so by going to YouTube or any of our other social channels across Instagram and TikTok. There are more snippets to share and bite-sized chunks to consume. And while you're there, please do like, subscribe and follow the show.

1:47:23As you will hear from your other favourite pods, it makes a huge difference when bringing you the best guests and conversations from the world of sport, which is, of course, our endless aim. Thank you again for tuning in and we'll see you next week. Did you know less than half of football transfers produce a return on investment? I'd argue the reason for that is most sporting directors don't have the information they need as fast as they need it in a format they can understand. Sometimes transfers can feel like back when you had music on your iPod, playlists on your computer and mixed CDs in your car.

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