THE BREAKDOWN: The Premier League’s Bottomless Transfer Cash Pit, The US Open Returns with BIG Money, & Messi Retires from Argentina (E35)

31:25They are at PSG, they're at Bayern, they're at Real they're at Barca and then pretty much everything from those guys downwards in terms of the top end is in the Premier League yeah right so I think that's quite interesting to examine why some of the biggest global stars don't come here right and why they do go to those other clubs because as we've just discussed those other clubs aren't necessarily paying the biggest transfer fees but they are paying very big wages and we know that because their revenues actually are higher than the Premier League clubs, right? So in other words, under UEFA's rules, the amount that they actually can spend on wages is higher, right?

32:07Now, if I was just to sort of just guesstimate this a little bit, and you'd have to get a whole bunch of them in a room and get them talking as to why most of them don't seemingly want to play in the Premier League. First of all, there's nothing wrong with wanting to play for Real Madrid, Barca, PSG and Bayern, particularly if they pay the highest wages. secondly I think your domestic season is going to be a more relaxing affair right so you're going to have 6, 7, 8 matches which are really meaningful, you're going to get rested for chunks because there are matches against teams lower down in your division where frankly you don't have to worry about it too much your team's going to win 5-0 even if they put out the reserves as shown by PSG last year when Dembele played I think started 10 games in a season and they won the league Exactly.

32:53Yeah. And won the Champions League. And part of the reason they won the Champions League is because Dembele was always fresh for the Champions League because that was their main priority, right? So I think you're starting to see an interesting thing here where the Premier League has become so competitive and so brutal that actually it's really bloody tough. By the end of the season, you know, we saw this with the Arsenal players, didn't we? And not just the English Arsenal players, but the other Arsenal players. By the time of the World Cup, they were out on their feet. They were absolutely knackered.

33:24Whereas players who have been playing for those big clubs in other countries, dare I say it, Jude Bellingham, dare I say it, Harry Kane, our two best players at the World Cup, arguably, they look full of running. They didn't look knackered at all. Why? Well, they've been rotated. They've had various games where they've been pulled off after 60 minutes with their team 4-5-0 up. Okay, in Bellingham's case, he had a bit of an injury as well. But leaving all this to one side, I think we're starting to see that pattern by which, as you put it, the top, top players say, do you know what? Premier League's ahead of a grind.

33:56You know, it's a real toughie. It's 38 games, but then you've also got to bear in account the really competitive cup competitions as well, where unlike in the European leagues, you're expected to try, right? It's a big thing, the FA Cup, and you have to try. So you're probably, your team is probably going to have, your domestic, your team is going to have 45, 46 domestic fixtures, right? And if you are a frontline player, you're probably going to be expected to start in 35 to 40 of them, injury allowing, then you've got the Champions League on top of that. And you're going into Champions League matches, which is the biggest stage for the very top, top players, as you put it, knackered from the weekend and knowing that you're then going to have to go on an away trip to Sunderland on the Saturday, etc.

34:39That's very different from playing at Real, Barca, PSG and Bayern, where, you know, with the best win in the world, the domestic leagues are much less competitive. You're getting kicked around a lot more. You're getting kicked around. No, the other factor, you're getting kicked around a lot more, and your required athletic output is going to be much higher. The other factor which you mentioned, Charlie, is the extent to which increasingly Premier League sides are signing players from other Premier League sides. And I think that's because what is starting to be proven is that even a player who looks like a top, top player when they are playing in one of those European leagues doesn't necessarily cut it in the PL floor inverse.

35:18for instance right so a player who looks absolutely fantastic wandering around the fields of the Bundesliga or Serie A whatever it might be bring him into the Premier League and start putting him under severe physical pressure maybe maybe not so increasingly you'll see in Premier League clubs place a real premium on if this player has shown that he can cut it seriously cut it in the Premier League and play 40 matches and really you know big physical output and can run up and down the pitch which makes sure we don't get exposed by Brentford being smart or whatever it might be, that's worth more to us than a guy who might in theory be a wonderful talent.

35:55But if he hasn't showed it yet in the Premier League, I'm not quite sure. You joked, but it is much safer for Chelsea spending $117 million on Morgan Rodgers than it is Liverpool spending$116 million on Florian Verde. So that also will play into players looking at coming into the league and seeing... It's a direct comparison there, isn't it? It's a direct comparison. and they play in the same position fundamentally. And a player with the talent of Virts, many people would have had him as a top, top player coming into this league. If you're another top, top player looking to come into this league, he's your focal point on the challenges that could present.

36:30So this has been the charge over the last year or two, too. I've just started to see this appear a bit in the British media, particularly for Martin Samuel at the Sunday Times. The Premier League's losing its luster because it's no longer able to attract the top top players i i understand that point right which is if you think that what makes a league attractive is the star power of a very small number of players right at the top then i get that that's not what the premier league is and never has been really um the premier league's always been about depth of competition right it's always been about the actual matches themselves and I watched match the day on the weekend both days and I was like wow this league is unbelievable this league is like anything can happen every single team in this league can do it Hull can go and beat Man United you know genuinely properly not backs to the wall let's try and hang on here beat them properly beat them I mean I was watching Ipswich play on the weekend and I know they got sort of thumped a bit in the end.

37:40But there was a period of 20 to 30 minutes when Ipswich were really on top. And if they'd scored a goal during that period, which they could easily have done, then the game could have gone in a very, very different way. So it's a different product. And you also have circumstances now, which I think showed in the Tottenham-Newcastle game. You have a team in there, right, when going in Spurs who spent 300 plus million. And you had, so who would sit at the end of people's confidence going, isn't this exciting? you would have sat at the end of Newcastle going they've been stripped and you know are going to be hugely vulnerable and that didn't show at all in the performance.

38:13As you know I wasn't that confident about Tottenham. No you weren't. I've got a profound concern about Tottenham which is they've gone from a model where the power lies in the boardroom and the head coach is meant to coach. Now there are various reasons why that in the end that didn't especially work for them in the end towards the end. they've now gone to a manager-led model by which basically Deserby's told well what players do you want well I like this player or that player okay well we can go and spend whatever we want on that that type of stuff I just think those days have totally gone and I don't think that's a successful way to run a football club anymore I think it's just worth looking at the quantum I think it's worth looking at the quantum here so you just mentioned 3.5 billion of spending in the Premier League right La Liga 700 million right 3.5 billion 700 million the bundesliga 700 million right so that's 1.4 billion between them seriat 450 million right so that's 1.85 billion and league about 450 million right so you've got about two point between two and two and a half billion being spent throughout the other four top leagues in Europe and 3.5 billion being spent by the Premier League on their own.

39:32Now, there's, a bit of that's being recycled, right? So of that 3.5 billion, some of it's going to other Premier League clubs, I think about 30 % of it. So, you know, let's say, surely a lot more, no, because 7 out of 10 are the biggest deals. Yeah, I know, but there was a lot below that of the 40, 50, 60 million which the mid-table clubs are getting, which are from abroad. It's only the top clubs who are really clicking into, we want English players. Yeah, so a lot of the replacements, actually, for the top signings, they came from Europe. Yes, exactly. So if you are a mid-table side, like Newcastle, and you're signing Gimeraj, so you're selling Gimeraj to Arsenal, you're not replacing him with an English Premier League player because he doesn't pay too much money.

40:15Yeah, they went to France for Matias Fernandes, Pardo, for a 50-odd million. So that's 50 million into France. Exactly. So let's just say, keep the numbers round, 3.5 billion of total spending of which about a billion is paying out to other English clubs even call it one you know so basically net net right the English league is spending even if you take into account the fact that they're recycling money right is spending the same as all the other leagues in Europe put together right and you can now see why the leaders of the football league say this thing about you saying that you can't afford to slip an extra 100 million down to the football league between you walk us through again so you're spending three and a half billion and you can't afford to give an extra 100 million down to the rest of the english football pyramid split between 20 split between 20 of you right right five million each and yet you're spending billions right can you just walk us through why you think what you know because the argument's always been from the premier league well you know if we gave anything more to the football league then we couldn't possibly be competitive against la liga right la liga spent 700 million euro by the way that's euros so that's actually 600 million pounds la liga has spent and the premier league 3.5 billion so next time that anyone from the premier league says that try and ask them if they can keep a straight face.

41:42Three and a half billion compared to 600 million. All of that when English football clubs last year in the Premier League collectively lost almost two billion pounds in 2025. Yeah. What do you think of the actual size of this and the numbers attributed to it? Because really, this is all being built on debt, right? So - Well, is it? I mean, I'm always sort of a bit, put an asterisk against the word debt when it comes to football. So you've got two different types of debt. you've got debt which a football club takes on from a third party and then you've got other types of debt which is either an owner loaning money to his club as a for as a way of putting money into the club he might put in his equity he might put in his debt but fundamentally a la tony bloom for example yeah exactly fundamentally it doesn't it is that's a tax point about when you come to sell the club eventually it's better for you to have put money in his debt because then you get repayment of that debt as the first tranche of the money you're receiving.

42:36So let's say that you're, you know, the owner of a Premier League club, you've put in 100 million over the last 10 years, and that's gone in as debt. And then someone comes along and says, I'm going to buy that club off you for 300 million. The first 100 million of that comes to you as a repayment of debt, which means that the capital gains, the portion of your sale, which is subject to capital gains tax, is smaller. So I'm not really fussed about clubs that are in debt to their owner, right? Particularly in the Premier League, maybe a slightly different an argument as you go further down the leagues.

43:07And then you get ownership groups, holding company level debt, like you have at Chelsea, where the holding company takes on external debt to fund stuff that it then pushes down into the football club actually is equity. I haven't got a problem with that because it's the ownership group that's taking the risk. And fundamentally, if they can't afford to pay their interest payments, they can't afford to repay the principal, the lenders just take control of the club and then sell it to somebody else. There's no danger to the club. The only time there's danger to the club is when it's the club itself taking on debt, which is what's happened to Real and Barca, right?

43:40Because they don't have owners. So there's no ownership group to take on that debt. So the club itself takes on debt. That then can be very dangerous down the track. Like, I can't think at the moment of an English Premier League club. I'm sure I'm wrong. Well, transfer financing is... Well, that's another point, Charlie, yeah. That's another point, which is effectively just to explain what Charlie's talking about there. So let's say you buy a player for 100 million and you say, right, you know, It's$25,$30 million up front, and then$20 million,$20 million,$20 million,$20 million over the following few summers.

44:12How the financing mechanics that go around that can be somewhat opaque. And indeed, for the club that's receiving it, sometimes they will take out financing arrangements, which basically go to a bank and say, right, can you mop up all of those payments over the next four years? Give it to me in one lump sum, and I'll then pay you interest. So there's all sorts of stuff that goes around. But fundamentally, if you just take, say that all the Premier League clubs in total, as you put it, lost$2 billion last year. They then have$3.5 billion a year that they're spending. Effectively, the question then is, that looks to me like an investment, right?

44:53Because effectively, that's not an operational loss. That's going on transfer fee spending, which is going on players that then have a book value, which they can then sell. As we're seeing, for instance, with Aston Villa. who've realized vast amounts of money this summer through selling players, right? And who are then presumably going to book an enormous profit for one year. And Chelsea, who booked over 30 million in profit despite spending 350 million. Epic financial good management. As you've always said, geniuses. As you've always said. So anyway, where do you come from to the conclusion on this, Charlie?

45:29Does money even mean anything anymore? 50 to 60 million seems like the cost of an average player these days 100 million seems like the new base price for anyone of real experience or competence that is below 26 should we say um and you know if you're a gamarish type player 28 with proven experience you're still going to command 75 plus uh so trying to understand and make any real cohesive thought around what this actually means I find quite difficult. What I really look at is, you know, look, all of this, the reason the Premier League can do this, as we all know, is because it's had a huge amount of media money that has built a great business model around it.

46:10Well, appearing to be a great business model. But what we also know is that media money is coming into question. The longevity of that money, will these contracts keep being signed that allow Premier League clubs to spend like this? Who knows? So there is going to be an increasing pressure on clubs. I think to continue in their moves and it comes back to things like stadium right if you're going to keep spending like this if you're going to keep putting this amount of money into the performance side of it what are you doing around your business to try to ensure that you are not just dependent on that media cash because if you are a Bournemouth at 80 plus percent as we've said who rely on that media money for the core revenue and that media money starts to diminish or go you have a significant problem if you're a Spurs where you have a much broader business model you can spend like this regardless of whether you finish 17th in the Premier League table or first.

47:02That's people's issue, right? Right. I mean, it is fundamentally, when you look at it, if you look at the difference between what the Premier League is spending and what the other leagues are spending, is basically just the difference in their international TV revenue, right? So there is a difference in domestic TV revenue. Yes, the English Premier League gets a bit more for its money domestically than La Liga does, and clearly quite a bit more than Serie A does. Bundesliga gets quite a bit. But the real big difference is the two and a half billion a year that the Premier League gets for its international TV rights.

47:35Right. So effectively, that money is money that other clubs in the world and other leagues in the world don't have. And that is the money which is now being spent on transfer fees effectively. Completely. Deciphering it is not that straightforward. But suffice it to say, in broad terms, English Premier League clubs are paying transfer fees the like of which the sport has never seen before. and which are so far in advance of what any other clubs in any other leagues in the world are able to play, that it's taken the league as a whole onto a different level. And I personally, I think the product is absolutely insanely good at the moment.

48:11I've watched about four or five matches this season already, and they've just been, I'm in danger of developing a fondness for your side. I mean, God, they're exciting to watch. Well, can't defend, they score lots of goals, so. Yeah, it's very exciting. it is very exciting I mean when they're attacking it is you know you are watching high quality football this is what you want to see right and last season finally if anything and this could factor into it remember the amount of criticism around the style of football that was coming in it was long throws it was set pieces it was boring it was Arsenal style yeah whether that matters or not haven't seen any of that haven't seen any of that it's all been you know hell for leather end to end matches it's been absolutely fantastic on to another massive sporting event that has just started the 146th US Open Tennis the 146th US Open Tennis I'll add the number in there as well thank you very much good research well done thank you it's actually interesting it's been around for that long in the US isn't it I know it actually has history stop it joking stop it and we love you and Charlie and the 108 million prize fund right record breaking wow we were just saying about the Premier League these numbers are unprecedented 108 million US dollars as a tennis tournament prize fund is also unprecedented up 74 percent from 2024 when the prize fund was 75 million dollars up 44 percent from the previous year when it was 80 90 odd right 5.5 million dollars to the winner this year up 500k from last year now a 10 increase shall i tell you what i think when i hear that the winner is only due to get a measly 5.5 million dollars they're being hard done by i feel like i feel like forming a trade union and you know what my first first thing i'm going to do is i'm going to give shorter media interviews that'll show them

50:08okay fine we'll make it six and a half i mean just do your media i guess what one thing they could say the players is however much we look a bit ridiculous and everyone laughs at us for having these um sort of constant claims you should be getting more money and for shortening our media interviews kind of seems to be working well i don't know it continues to go up but charlie it doesn't continue to go up proportionally to overall tournament revenue right which is of course the argument now look sorry we've been joking here the argument that we've had around player pay and the grand slams which has been bubbling for uh well a lot of time this year really um has been that the players are not satisfied with the amount of revenue that they are getting from the slams despite those numbers being incredibly high and despite the prize pots the total prize pots growing What they're arguing is that as the Grand Slams are making more money in total, it is not rising proportionally to the amount that the Grand Slams are making.

50:58Our position has been, well, the Grand Slams are now doing far more around their events. They are creating value in ways that they haven't found it before that isn't directly associated to the performance of Yannick Sinner or Sabalenka on court, which is allowing them to create this money. And therefore, why should that money go straight back to the players' pot when actually the money that this is creating is being drip-fed back into the tennis systems of these countries to develop the infrastructure and the future stars of the game? What I think you can look at here is you go, okay, well, we've always talked about the ones at the top, but we've also talked about the challenges of the players that aren't necessarily on the front line of tennis.

51:40Even if you lose in the first round of the US Open, Do you know what you're getting this year? 140 ,000 US dollars. That's incredible, isn't it? Right, 100 ,000 pounds for being a first round loser, right? So bear in mind, 128 players get to enter. So if you are the, according to the US Open at least, the 128th best player in the world, you receive 100 ,000 pounds for playing one match. One match. And also, sorry, I saw this year that money is also being put towards travel and accommodation for players. Yeah, that's right. and two million dollars is actually going to a mid-career support fund so that's going to help players with unforeseen circumstances like injuries if that's keeping you off tore and unable to compete now one thing they have done Charlie which I don't remember when we first discussed this at the start of the year which is around the time the Australian Open which I know you've done a lot of focus on a lot of work with the Australian Open in the past and the guy who had been running the Australian Open for a long time has now gone to run the US Open Craig Tiley and one thing I said at the start was I wish that the Grand slam tournaments would speak with each other a bit more and speak with one voice because they've all got the same issue which is the players trying to pressurize them individually to give them more money and they've all got the same issue which is they have duties and responsibilities to the wider the wider sport of tennis within their countries and geographies um anyway something has been set up called the grand slam advisory council which is a forum for the players to speak with the grand slam tournaments so that it seems to me to be a first step at least because presumably when they speak the grand slam advisory council there will be representatives there from or a representative at least from the usta from wimbledon from the australian um tennis association and from from the french federation so at least it's a step towards some sort of solidarity um i think i think the dream of many in tennis or many fans you know anyone who cares about the sport would be to have centralized governance that would allow all of these competitions to work together the big challenge you have which craig outlined in a very very interesting way is that if you're the australian open for example you don't you don't own melbourne park yeah so you don't have um the infrastructure on your balance sheet that the usta have with billy jean king in um in america flushing meadows flushing meadows yeah so which by the way they are seeking at the moment 400 million in financing to renovate it 800 actually is it 800 800 oh it's well it's well underway is it yep well underway so they're going to have the performance center so they've got a tennis Performance Centre opening this year or next year?

54:09So the infrastructure in Flushing Meadows is reportedly dated, right? I've been there, it is. I haven't. So yeah, take your word for it. So they needed renovation. They've got$800 million projects. It's quite cool though. It's dated in a way which, I mean, I'm dated. So it makes me feel at home. Only I'm allowed to say that about you. I get my blows in first instead. So they're putting it into redeveloping the stadia, but also a performance centre to match for the players, very specifically for the players. The money they're investing in the stadia is, of course, geared towards creating more of that hospitality elite type of experience, which is driving a huge amount of the revenue that they're generating.

54:47So, I mean, they're generating$560 million, which was the last account, which were 2024. So, I mean, you can only imagine that last year. I've heard it's$625 now. So, well, that was total USTA revenue. Yes, that's right. Well, just the US Open. Oh, you're talking about just the US Open. Did$560 million, yeah. Sorry. So just the US Open. It gives a good idea of just how much of the USTA's revenue comes from the US Open, right? As with so many. Same with Wimbledon. This is your time you capitalise. When looking at that revenue, how they reinvest that money back into it, America hasn't had a Grand Slam champion in the US Open.

55:22Do you know the last one? Is this on the men's side? On the men's side. On the men's side, Andy Roddick? Yeah, it was. 23 years ago. 2004? 2003. 2003. 23 years ago i was there you have a huge tennis playing population yeah you have a lot of money going down into the system there's huge pressure on them to now create better grassroots better facilities better playing environments for for the players so you know the the revenue generating capabilities of this tournament and broader u.s tennis are increasing they need to be making more money because they want to be doing more for it and that's where the fan week we talked about this with the australian open the fan week coming into it feeds then right back into this um this kind of player debate do you want to explain what the fan week so the fan week and also explain what the australian open fan week let's you know for the same concept is another week that they've added on to the grand slam which is more like a festival of entertainment of music of art of culture of sport but it's to bring all of the people that are you know passionate and want to be associated with the tennis into the arenas into the experience before a lot of the tennis even begins and in doing so the australian open have raised not raced generated a huge amount of additional revenue they've elevated their technologies because they've brought startups into ecosystems to deploy with different fan experiences in and around the venue the u.s are looking to do something and have been doing something very similar and fan week has actually over the last few years increased in popularity significantly over 200 000 people came in in fan week what they've also done in the u.s for their fan week is tie in some of the professional end so have you seen this mixed doubles tournament which has been uh yeah fun basically they decided that mixed doubles will be a feature of the entertainment product rather than just become a part of an already highly saturated it gets a bit lost doesn't it it does and players weren't playing in it because you know they had they obviously had singles focus doing it in this week before and upping the prize money has been um a stroke of genius really if you want for them in creating it so they took it from two hundred thousand dollars to a million dollars for the prize fund and this year they basically created this in the fan week where it's only 16 teams can enter but then the 16 teams this year you had alcaraz and serena williams you had sabalenka and jokovic you had svitalina and monfils who are married competing together and then you had Mukhova and Mensic who actually end up winning at Mukhova, Caroline Mukhova, who was the Wimbledon finalist.

57:53This kind of first of four games, two sets, if you're one set all at the end, champions tie break. Most of the matches last an hour. Top talent, short enough to consume, really appealing to watch in a time where there isn't other tennis to steal the attention away. Now, you put that into the broader entertainment that comes around the fan week and you get a really cool product. Craig was massively into this. When we were talking a couple of months ago, he really wanted to bring a huge amount, I think, of the successes and the elements of the Australian Open that had built continued support around the event into what American tennis is because there is a huge opportunity to do it.

58:34Now, we can't pass up on something that we talk about a lot, which is the actual cost of going to this event because this is the most expensive year ever. i mean the ticket prices are huge now the face value and the average resale we talked a huge amount in the world cup about this but i'll just give you a few of the um of the stats on this so a ground pass on face value is 65 they've been reselling on ticketmaster for 263 dollars that's a ground pass that's no seat that's just to get in yeah promenade 118 dollars selling for 382 dollars not good seats yeah you're still there but they're not great seats you then go to court side right which is the non-club so yeah not the exclusive that's 563 dollars face value so let's just stop face value alone that's 563 dollars we've been criticizing for one tournaments for overpricing for one day well yeah one session only one session quite often no i mean it doesn't break this down but no no because you don't get you don't buy tickets for two you buy for a session yes it would be for a session yeah um i'm just trying to remember when i went there because they have a very long evening session yeah you're right it's separate so it'll be 563 for a session correct me if i'm wrong anyone on here who really knows but i assume that is right um reselling for 715 and then courtside club interestingly the resale and the um and the face value are very similar it's 2333 dollars and it goes up to 2600 if you're really spending it anyway if you're reassuring expensive in the first place then either way yeah significant money now to go and attend this lots of discussions around is this the accessible tennis tournament that it needs to be if you're pricing it at that well it's the same discussion points we have every time it comes down to supply and demand are you know are they looking to make a huge amount of money to filter back into the game yes it is the primary earning opportunity of the usta um there is the honey juice thing you ever had did you have a honey juice when you were there i mean just a couple of honey juices obviously because you wouldn't go above and beyond honey juices they're a they're hugely popular alcoholic drink which is like raspberry lemonade with gray goose vodka i did Well, I think probably the last time I was there was about 15 years ago, 20 years ago.

1:00:41I think these started around then. Really? So do you know how much they make alone from selling honey juices? They make$17 million a year. I must check out this honey juice. Take a look. Yeah. It looks delicious. Include it on our pub crawl. They have little melon frozen balls on a stick that sits on top of it. It's great. Anyway, these are really famous, and obviously influencers love them because influencers are now crawling all over this. Have you seen the influencer involved? I have. It's huge. What do you think? I don't think it's detracting from the US Open I think the US Open is a big enough event to carry itself and the influencer stuff just adds breadth to the number of people who might clock into it from a non-live attendance point of view What do you think about their behaviour at matches?

1:01:22Have you seen what happened with Naomi Osaka? No I did not. They had to stop the match Did they? The influencers were recording content and I think flashing lights from cameras basically they're sitting in premium seats and they're just not interested in the tennis and not only that which is fine like you know yeah if you're gonna go there go there but they're actually then interrupting the product so that that is problematic i didn't see that last night um i shall i shall look it up but i just want to go back on the attendance point is you know the attendance last year was 1.15 million people yeah right including family yeah right that that's quite a large number so to sort of depict it as some sort of hoity-toity upper end sort of thing which nobody can afford to go to.

1:02:05I think it's sort of obviously just not quite right if 1.15 million people are coming. But I would also point out that there's a vast number of other professional tournaments that take place in the US. Like, you know, if you are somebody from Cincinnati, like you don't need to go to the US Open to see top class tennis. They have a, you know, big ATP 500 or 1 ,000 event in Cincinnati, which is much cheaper. So I just don't really buy that the US Open itself needs to be the cheap, the cheap one. You know, this is the USTA's one opportunity to make the money which funds them for the whole of the rest of the year.

1:02:39The other point I wanted to make is just listening to you as you're going wrong and going back to the players wanting to have 22%, I think it is, something like that, of the revenue paid to them in prize money. I've always got a problem with this. When you think about revenue, you also have to think about cost of sales in any business, right? So what we're actually talking about is net revenue, what we would call EBITDA, right? Now, I had to look into this because I thought this subject might come up. So there's 560 million US in revenue and 300 million in net revenue, gross profit, let's call it, right?

1:03:13So once they've actually put the whole... So if you take prize money of 100 million, actually a bit more than that, but let's say 100 million, out of 300 million in gross profit, what's that? 33%. 33%, not 22%. So I'm going to start a campaign now and say the prize money should be reduced. is that the players have fundamentally misunderstood the nature of what revenue actually means. And they don't understand that actually somebody has to pay to put the whole thing together and to staff it and to steward it and to have all the officials and all this type of stuff. And therefore, actually, we should agree with them that they should get 22 % of net revenue.

1:03:50I mean, let's put our colours to the mask. I think we both agree. Prize money in tennis is exceptional. It's very high. It's incredibly high. And the work going on from the executive, right, to give them credit, is to continue to increase that prize money, regardless of total revenue. As long as it doesn't destroy everything else. No. And the more money they can make, the better for the game. As you said, I completely agree. You know, these are the top, top events of a sport. Maximize your opportunity. But when it comes down to this as an event individually, look, they do a really good job by the looks of it, and they're only getting better.

1:04:26if they can build a fan week around it that does some really, you know, different things. Like if they can make something out of mixed doubles tournaments where previously people haven't paid a huge amount of attention to it. I think the mixed doubles thing is something that's just replicable for all the slams, isn't it? Some of the other stuff that goes on at your Australian Open and can go on at the US Open, being on hard courts, would be much harder to replicate on Wimbledon's grass courts. Definitely. You just can't do it. So, you know, it's not as maybe even arguably on the clay courts at Roland Garros.

1:04:53And also, interestingly, Charlie, those two that you just mentioned there they haven't had the heritage battle that the other two have had so that's the when we're talking about the difference in motivations of the slams Wimbledon and Roland Garros just have such a history of doing things a certain way that they struggle to do a huge amount that shifts the the dynamic those two Australian Open in the US have been far more creative far more you know yeah raw I mean yeah raucous in many circumstances uh but the honey juice is going at that that price 23 dollars you got to get some honey juice in the fridge here.

1:05:25Charlie, look, we've got to get going onto our sub stack. So for those of you who are interested, we're going to be diving straight over and talking a lot about golf and live golf in particular. Let's do it. See you next week, guys.

1:05:39Thanks as always for tuning into another show that seemed to cover a lot of ground. The transfer window saw some lavish spending to put it mildly and we want to know what your thoughts are on the size of these deals, whether it's sustainable and whether this kind of spending is putting the future of the game at risk. I'm sure you will all have a view big thanks again and for those of you not joining on Substack as we look at some good news for English cricket finally and a sensitive but hugely important issue arising in the WNBA we'll see you next week Thinking about your next step towards a career in sports leadership our partners at Global Institute of Sport are the number one ranked university for getting you a job in sport GIS has an amazing 99 % graduate employment rate with four out of five alumni working in sport within nine months including at blue chip organizations across the world like the premier league the nba nike and in formula one gis has an innovative range of masters and bachelor's degrees devoted to the world's most exciting industry from sports business media and agent programs through to on the pitch coaching and performance analysis degrees you'll be joining an institution dedicated to fast tracking your career and connecting you with the employers that give you the edge gis's award-winning degrees are flexible and designed to fit around your busy lifestyle Study online globally with optional sports summits at London's Wembley Stadium, the Sydney Cricket Ground, Toronto's BMO Field, and at Lionel Messi's Inter Miami, immersing you in the industry throughout your studies.

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