From Setback to Comeback: Grit, Growth and Mental Fitness with Barrie McDermott, Adrian Morley & Shaun Lunt

12:25Adrian Morley:I played against him

12:26Shaun Lunt:well I don't think you'll see any coach in Super League or NRL getting a coaching position there at just 35 and he was great because he'd only finished playing recently he knew what the players wanted and needed and you know win or lose I have a booze he liked it but no he did like it and he thought there was a place for it and I still think there is a place for bonding and that kind of thing but he won with you he lost with you and we had a bit of success under Ricky Stewart.

12:56Adrian Morley:Yeah, and I think you talked about it in one of our other podcasts how Brian stood up, Brian McDermott stood up to Gary Heather. I just want to take it back to injuries. I'm sure we'll do a deep dive on injuries, but injuries are part and parcel of what you do, isn't it? When you talk about a big shift, unless you've got a career-ending injury, most of the time you're getting over it. Was there a particular injury that you can remember that you thought this might be it?

13:22Barrie McDermott:When you're in that professional environment, you know, I've had a couple of shoulder operations. I've had groins chopped off. I've had ankle surgeries and whatnot. But I've been very fortunate, touch wood, you know, to not have the real, you know, career-ending injuries. Apart from when I got an illness from an injury, I got sepsis. And so I ended up in hospital for two weeks. And then I was a further six-week at home having a recovery. And that was the time when I was at Hull KR. So that's when I thought that maybe that was my time. but thankfully I had to go back to everything I've ever learned.

13:55Barrie McDermott:I had to go back to square one, sort of learn how to walk again, go back to the basics. I couldn't walk upstairs without getting out of breath and whatnot. And then going from being a tough rugby player, mentally strong, physically strong, to going to what I thought was my rock bottom and then building myself back up and getting back on the pitch, it took a lot for me, but I learned a lot from it as well. And like I said, everything, how I've attacked lives, effort, hard work, it got me back on the pitch.

14:23Adrian Morley:And would you have used those skills, because we pick up a set of skills as sportsmen that we try and take into the transition, and it's a daunting, frightening, scary period of all our lives, but were the things that you took from that experience, fearing that it was almost over, to prepare yourself for transition?

14:43Barrie McDermott:Yeah, again, going into something new, it's anything that you do, whether it's going somewhere for the first time, going to a new club, starting a new job, you're going to get them feelings, aren't you? They're all the same. It's the same sort of process.

14:54Adrian Morley:And how did you approach that?

14:55Barrie McDermott:So for me, it was just getting there, work hard, sure, willing to work hard. You know, there's no substitute for hard work. Be open. And again, we talked about criticism and learn from it as well, not to take it, you know, to heart and, you know, sort of sulking the corner. If someone says, oh, you're doing this wrong, you're doing that wrong, you've got to really, you know, dig deep and use it as a challenge, turn it into a challenge that I want to win because, again, we all wanted to win, didn't we? We all want to win. Nobody likes losing. So to flip that into that sort of rugby mentality and go forward.

15:27Adrian Morley:And Moz, injury's a part and parcel. You can't get away from being injured. If you're not getting injured, there's a theory to say you're not doing it properly.

15:34Shaun Lunt:Yeah, you're right. And, you know, I mentioned the second year I was there, it was playing sailing. It was and it wasn't. So the first 10 games were fantastic. You know, I got used to living away from home, as I say, but then there was a constant niggling pain in my back and in the backs of my legs. We tried everything, stretching, deep massage, epidural, nothing would sort of this pain out. So the last option was surgery. So I went in and the surgeon said, look, I don't know what's the problem. We need to do a laminectomy. That's where they trim around the vertebrae to free up the nerve and he said that'll solve it.

16:10Shaun Lunt:He said there's a 90 % chance of success, you know everything will be fine there's a nine percent chance uh it won't be a success you'll have pain in the back to your legs forever and i said well i'm no mathematician but that's only 99 percent he said uh oh yeah there's a one percent chance uh something will go wrong and you'll lose the use of your legs but he said don't worry no one's ever lost the the legs on my watch anyway cheers for that so i just thought i hope he stays off the drink the night before uh that he does the surgery but touch wood uh since having the surgery as soon as i come around he said it went well anyway uh it was it was great after that but i was only 25 at the time and to be told you could potentially uh you know it could be your career gone you know 90 is uh it's a great stat but it's still 10 chance that it won't work anyway uh it went well but since you know there was about a nine-week recovery after that so then but then when i did come back we didn't lose a game then

17:06Adrian Morley:and in those periods of you're either out of the team you've had to move clubs or you know you're suffering injury you need to learn from the people around you you need the support of people around you can you think of people who particularly when you were coming back were encouraging you

17:22Barrie McDermott:in that working team environment yes it was actually when i was here and there was a guy called fats and um fats was the um a part of the coach staff at leeds at the time welfare training counselor of everything really yeah and and a good ear to talk to absolutely brilliant and And I still say at this day, he pretty much nearly saved my life because everything, my life was rugby. And he was someone that I could speak to. And he was, you know, he understood what I was going through, how I was dealing with things that going through, the stress that I was going through, the coping mechanisms that I was doing.

17:55Barrie McDermott:And yeah, they weren't the right ones, but that was the only thing I knew how to do. And Fats took me to one side and said, listen, Sean, it's okay. We'll deal with it. We'll sort it out. And he, like I say, he's really, He's given me the tools now to be able to deal with things now. So every time that I go through a tough part, tough period in life, I fall back on those tools.

18:14Adrian Morley:I'm going to get those tools off you in a second. But most teammates, support network, it's really important, especially when you're in those low times.

18:23Shaun Lunt:Yeah, it is. And the beauty of rugby league is you've got 25 best mates there, aren't you? And they're all very supportive and helpful. I did struggle a little bit when I was in Australia. I never got injured in the UK, but when I was in Aussie, I had two major injuries. and a broken arm and a back operation. So teammates were great, but I had a network of mates over there who were away from Rugby League. So my best mate, Carlo, he'd come over. So he was always there or thereabouts. There was a couple of me older brother Steve's mates living in Cudgy where I lived. So I knocked about with them and just, it was a bit of a hotbed for British, you know, when the English go over backpack and that kind of thing, there was always English people around.

19:04Shaun Lunt:so I did know quite a few people there away from the sport which is as I say pretty important as well so the club were great, the players were great and as I say I've had a few English mates there so between everyone I got the support and help I needed and thankfully both injuries were ones that you could come back from

19:28Adrian Morley:I want to put those skills under the spotlight now we've talked about support network we've talked about people inside and outside the game getting around you ultimately it's down to you and those tools that you've got to keep you on track what are the things that you think have helped you over your period of time in and out of the game certainly in the game my work I think

19:48Shaun Lunt:you know as I mentioned I used to train as hard as I possibly could and and if I weren't good enough on game day I know it's nothing I've done that are nothing I couldn't have done more in terms of my preparation and my fitness off the field uh you know a happy uh player off the field is one who performs on the weekend so you know spending time with your family or you know relaxing so it's just as important to relax and get getting the right headspace as it is to do the the physical stuff on the field so getting that balance and then it's all about uh it's all about game day it's all about winning at the end of the day so as you can prepare yourself as well as you can give yourself a chance there's no reason why you can't get them two points and it's going to

20:32Adrian Morley:be pretty universal amongst us three and every bloke that spent any time in sport that it's about hard work but ultimately that hard work in this environment in the work environment is about training and upskilling and developing yourself because if you understand the industry knowledge in any working environment with the character the personality and the ability to learn and evolve will get you top of the tree.

20:57Barrie McDermott:Yeah, exactly. And that's, again, going back on when you're a kid and you're coming into the rugby league, you've got to learn things, you've got to be open, you've got to get to know people, you've got to know your teammates and everything. And that's exactly the same scenario when you're moving into a different role in the working industry. With rugby, you're in that bubble and when you come out of rugby, you can't talk like we talk in the changing rooms, can we?

21:19Adrian Morley:It's one of the biggest adjustments for Civvy Street. We've talked about it off camera, off mic here, getting used to where the line is.

21:25Barrie McDermott:Yeah. It's a big adjustment, isn't it? Yeah, some of the stuff that happened in the changing room is if I go and do that in the workplace, I'd be locked up. So, yeah, and that's just, we call it as banter. It's just that the normal thing is up for me. It's offensive. It's not banter, it's offensive.

21:37Adrian Morley:But surely the people around you and the people, when you make the transition into that work environment, you surround yourself with the right people, you get the right support, you get the right advice, and you're smart. You're intelligent enough to be able to understand where the line is because if you weren't intelligent, you wouldn't have been successful out there.

21:54Barrie McDermott:Yeah, exactly. And that's why I played nine and not prop forward like you used to. I was the one giving you the ball running in. So yeah, exactly. It's one of those things you've got to be smart and you've got to adapt and adjust to other people as well. And again, going back into Sibby Street, as we call it, is that you've got to take other people's feelings into account and you can't just not like a bull in a china shop.

22:19Adrian Morley:I just want to explore one topic. and it you know I'm talking to myself as much as you two as kids at school I know my own personal experience I wasn't an academic kid so when it come time post career to start learning I I went to a university up the road Leeds Beckett is called now Leeds County at the time and had to sit in a classroom and was intimidated and felt vulnerable and felt like I was out of my depth but you had to have the attitude to learning training upskilling that we had on the part there what was your I would It's a school life like learning compared to your post-career life like learning.

22:56Shaun Lunt:To be fair, and you might be surprised, I was quite an academic. I was quite a smart kid in school. What happened?

23:03Adrian Morley:Well, I am surprised.

23:04Shaun Lunt:Did you lose all the brain cells on the pitch? Yeah, I got knocked out of me playing rugby league. Cassidy. Yeah, exactly. Well, no, I was, you know, in terms of, I was quite happy. Before I come a professional, I was happy to be an apprentice electrician. and you know to get any trade you know that was the the northern thing to do so I was I had it in my head I was going to be an electrician for me for my working days when I was still playing there was there was help from the rugby league grants and things like that and training course I did a level level one and two in personal training but again that was going back into the into the classroom environment and I enjoyed it it was because it was physical it was something I used to love PE in school so it was similar to that and plus I'd been a pro rugby player for 15 years so I knew a thing or two about fitness so that was enjoyable but in terms of, you know, I know Jimmy Peacock and Sydney them people, they did degrees I couldn't see myself doing a degree but I'm certainly not scared of going back and learning if it'll benefit me and my working life

24:17Barrie McDermott:wasn't it i i've actually got a degree i've got a master's degree in sports directorship that i got was you a good student or have you learned how to learn no i wasn't a good student at school i just didn't have the the attention span now i used to be that that cocky i always think with

24:32Adrian Morley:school i'm sorry to interrupt i always think with school they've got one way of teaching everyone you don't connect with that way then you sit at the back so you obviously as a later in life learner you understood what you needed to to absorb the information and that's what got you to yeah to your masters yeah so yeah so when when i went and got that but it was that

24:52Barrie McDermott:probably one of the hardest things i've ever had to do my head was physically sore you know putting all right in a dissertation and whatnot it was so tough but again it's that that grit that determination that you get from from playing rugby you know you go back to the days where you're on the you're doing a pre-season and you know you're doing malcolm's and you're doing coat hangers one of the hardest things but you've just got to get your head down and get it get through

25:13Adrian Morley:it yeah and there is there's there's everyone talks about fight or flight don't they there's freeze as well isn't there where you overanalyze stuff because you don't want to make a mistake so last question on this topic what advice would you have for anybody that's transitioning from one environment to another from one role to another from one job to another don't be scared

25:32Barrie McDermott:and it's okay to be scared as well you know in the same sentence that is you're going to feel them nerves you know you're going to feel do you know that fight or flight or freeze you're going a feeling but embrace the feeling and look at it as a new challenge in life that's what i'm doing now you know there was sean the rugby player but looking back now i retired at 32 i was a rugby player for 16 years hopefully i'm going to be on this planet another 50 years so there's still a lot more living to go and keep going to turkey you'll look as young as ever well that's the plan that's i've got me um i'm going for my passport next week so i should be all right so uh but yeah just literally just throw yourself into it be open and embrace the challenge yeah most

26:09Adrian Morley:a younger student or a younger player, academy player, or a player coming out of the game is asking you for advice?

26:18Shaun Lunt:What would you tell him? Just, you know, I agree with Lunte, just go at it with enthusiasm and open mind, but try and do a bit of research as well. I know when I went to Australia, I just literally jumped on a plane, got there, and I thought, right, where am I living? You know, what's the healthcare, stuff like that. If I'd had got all this information before, it would have made my job a lot easier. yeah so try and get the help as I say get a bit more as much information as you can about that environment about that job or about that club and then that certainly will help you

26:48Adrian Morley:look at the tip sheet study the game plan look at your opposition where have we heard that before yes exactly

26:59Adrian Morley:so let's just summarise got some takeaways for our audience challenges can be intimidating So talk us through your attitude on how you deal with fear.

27:09Shaun Lunt:Yeah, well, you know, you play A team. There's a bit of a fear factor there. You step up to the first team. Again, you're nervous. You're feeling easier. You're playing international again. So every one of these step up in levels, for me, there was an element of doubt. There was an element of fear. But then the more time you spend in that environment, the more used to it you get. And then you think back, you know, after a bit of experience, why was I nervous? why I was I why I was awarded so my advice would be just someone thinks you're worthy of that you should think you're worthy yourself give yourself back yourself and try not to get worried if it's a job change or you're going to the other side of the world embrace the change try and do as much research and get as much information as you can on the new place you're going and that will be great and that will hopefully make it an easy transition to

28:04Adrian Morley:to go through and launch it change challenges those little wobbles in your mind how did you

28:11Barrie McDermott:deal with them again well i had plenty of wobbles in my mind to be fair i had a wobble about doing this this podcast at first but again it's like it's like anything it's it's the fear of something new but again i looked at it as a positive you know looking forward coming here sat with two people that i looked up to as a kid you know watch you on tv god bless you and uh now my rose between in two phones. But no, it's again, it's new. It's something new. And I have the same feelings now doing this and what I did on the, on the rugby pitch or asking, asking your first girlfriend out. It's all the same, but you can't, you can't conquer that fear unless you do it.

28:45Barrie McDermott:It's a bit like courage. It's a, it's a weird old world where you don't get the courage until you've after, after you've done it. And so you have to go through it and you have to just take the, the rough with the smooths. It's not going to be easy.

28:56Adrian Morley:And big men and important people all suffer at some point they have that wobble um and we term it as mental health i probably look at it

29:06Barrie McDermott:as how do you maintain your mental fitness yes i'm saying mental fitness it's um you're putting that spin on it again putting into more sporting sort of dynamic and it's so important to have people to talk to and talk to with a with an open mind i've touched on on how how big facts was for me at the rhinos you know being open and then allow let's give him a name check nigel o 'flattery and he allowed me to be vulnerable. And again, as an alpha male in a rugby team, you don't want to be vulnerable. That's the last thing you want to show any vulnerability, but it's absolutely fine to do so. Be comfortable doing it and through that vulnerability, you'll grow.

29:42Adrian Morley:And Moz, how do you maintain your mental fitness?

29:44Shaun Lunt:Well, for me personally, I think there's a massive focus on your physical health as a knock-on effect for your mental health. So when I finished playing, I took three or four months off training and I just felt awful and once I started back training it helped me mentally and now I love training, love the routine when I don't train I feel a bit guilty so I don't train every day but most days I train and just for that, I don't train for long half an hour, I try and get it done before my working day just for that half hour that's my happy place and then I'm set for the day then so I think that's a great tool to have if you've got the ability to go to the gym or to work out, I think it's fantastic for your mental health.

30:31Adrian Morley:We've talked before about the small steps to progress. We've talked about the 10 ,000 hours, but tell us about your approach to the whole process of success or progress.

30:41Shaun Lunt:Well, when I was a professional, you obviously do what the coaches and the strength and conditioners guys tell you to do. But if you do extras, that gives you a little bit of an edge in my opinion. So since day one, you do what the coaches tell you to do, but then the next day you try and be better and then you're setting goals. I want to be in the first team. I want to play for England. I want to play for Great Britain. So you've got to challenge yourself at every level, but you've also got to put the work in and try and be the best version of yourself you can.

31:13Barrie McDermott:For me, getting to the end result is a by-product of doing all the little things right. So for me, I always look at the next step, so the next job in hand. So again, we take it back to rugby. we went back in 2013 when we won the league at Huddersfield, we broke the full season down into four blocks games, four block games, four block games. So if we win three out of the four games, we've obviously won three, lost one or maybe drawn one. And then the week after or the next block of four, we try and do better. And obviously we broke it down. So we're not looking at it as a whole thing, trying to win the league and we're trying to win these little mini leagues and together they had opened the building blocks throughout the season.

31:51Barrie McDermott:then as a collective you've got all them points you've got all them wins and we're sat at the top of the table and and that's what i've taken into my life now do you know i'm not looking down at 50 year old me now i'm looking at 38 year old me what can i do today to make tomorrow a bit not easier but better and how i become better and basically we never stop learning do we no you

32:12Shaun Lunt:don't don't stop learning it's every day is a school day so uh they say what don't kill you makes you stronger and you're learning from all these experiences uh the older you get doesn't

32:22Adrian Morley:doesn't mean you stop by enough and it's that game of snakes and ladders again repeating something i said on a previous episode as soon as you get to the top of something you know at some point you have to start again and start learning again it's that approach to learning that that separates

32:36Barrie McDermott:people who've been in sport yeah again and separates the you know the great ones as well you know going back to kev sinfield he was the back end of his career but he was the first one at training and he was the last one at training and he'd be kicking goals kicking goals and I used to sit there and just watch him and then I'd probably become comfortable later on in my career you know I was happy with what I've achieved you know I thought I'm very and that's probably why I I sort of slipped off and went down the leagues where Kev he stopped at the very pinnacle of rugby league you know he went off on a high and and that's the difference probably between myself and Kev that he embraced learning and he he wanted to he was a student of life as you can say and

33:15Adrian Morley:and keep learning and learning is part of life it doesn't stop when you get to the top of where you are you're going to you're going to eventually have to learn something else so just in summary what we've covered we've got covered courage when you have to deal with challenges and fear getting courageous through that process having the right approach to the small steps to progress day by day bit by bit brick by brick also keeping your mental fitness nice and strong reaching out to people, getting the elements of your life right. And then if one's failing, the others compensate for that. And then lastly, you never stop learning.

33:55Adrian Morley:Another great episode, gents. Thanks for joining me. We've talked today about upping your game. I think some of you need to up your haircut game.

34:04Barrie McDermott:I think there's a little discrepancy here. Have you got any advice for you? Mine used to be, like most is, until I went to Turkey and had a few thousand hair grafts. and Mo's, I've got a number if you like it.

34:16Shaun Lunt:Well, I'm always open to suggestions, but what are you trying to say?

34:20Adrian Morley:Well, we were thinking of if this was a film and we were characters in a film. This is a film set, I reckon. We've got George Clooney.

34:28Barrie McDermott:George Clooney, yes. Brad Pitt, obviously. And Jason Statham. I thought you were saying,

34:34Adrian Morley:Trigger, I want to go to the house. Oh, look at movies, The Trigger. Jason Statham, The Haircut.

34:39Shaun Lunt:Oh, I get it. Yeah, nice little dig there.

34:42Adrian Morley:Don't dig me back. Thank you all for joining us. Hope you enjoyed another edition of Changing Rooms. Thanks to our good friends at Elect. As always, like, subscribe and join us soon.