Raising Conscious Humans: Raising Children With an Inner Compass

0:00Rachel Lim: Hi everyone, welcome back to Raising Conscious Humans. If you're joining us for the first time, this is a six-part series where I'm sitting down with Hwee Keng Maeder to explore what it really takes to raise resilient, self-directed, emotionally grounded human beings. And honestly, I've been thinking a lot about our first conversation with Hwee Keng. There was one thing which she shared. She told a story about a child at a zoo. and the child just walks straight past the giraffes and the elephants, crouches down on the ground and becomes completely fascinated by an ant. And she said, that's what we're trying not to kill.

0:40Rachel Lim: Because when I look at Ollie and Kira, I see that too. All their questions, their curiosity, the fascination with things I would normally walk straight past. And it makes me wonder, what happens between the child who asks why a hundred times a day and the teenager who only wants to know whether something is going to be tested. What happens between learning because you're curious and learning because you're being graded? But maybe the deeper question I realise is this. When do children stop trusting themselves? When do they stop trusting their own curiosity, their own instincts, their own interests and start looking outside themselves for validation and the answer?

1:25Rachel Lim: Because there was also something else that Hui King said in our last conversation that I found myself coming back to again and again. She was talking about Max and his competitions when he was younger. And she said there was a moment back then where she had to stop and ask herself, is this for him or is it for me? I think that question sits beneath so many of the decisions we make as parents. And I think it also sits underneath today's conversation too. So one of the first things I wanted to ask you as we kickstart episode two is, what do you think is the difference between a curious child and a compliant child?

2:06Hwee Keng Maeder: All children, starting from a certain age, they always ask a lot of why's. So the curiosity is an inborn thing. They are always asking why, why is the sky blue? Why is it like that? I don't know for a better lack of knowledge or, you know, we don't want to deal with so many questions and we stop. We say, don't ask so much. It is why it is like that. And so from our constant tearing down the whys and just asking them to accept the way it is, that's how we nurture indirectly. We're compliant children, right? Don't ask why. Don't ask why. The message is don't ask why. Just accept. indirectly we are telling them, right?

2:52Hwee Keng Maeder: I don't know a lot of parents here, but I think it's also our upbringing if I think about it, because our generation wants to portray themselves as an authority figure. But if you are an authority figure, then you have to be authority. You need to know everything. So they don't want to be confronted with what they don't know. And what they don't know, they say, don't ask. Don't ask. Just accept it, right? Maybe they don't have the time. Maybe they don't have the knowledge. Maybe they don't have other more important things in mind Like the very basics of putting food on the table I don't know But for sure now we come to a different age Where we can say Look, I bring out your curiosity You're curious?

3:32Hwee Keng Maeder: Oh, you make me curious too

3:33Rachel Lim: Let's all be curious about it And let's go and explore and discover Yeah And Huy Keng, I'm also curious as a mom yourself As a human being You know, sometimes I also catch myself when it happens to me And like, okay, all in Kira asking so many different whys and I found myself being a little bit irritated, annoyed or impatient. What should I tell myself or what do you tell yourself?

3:58Hwee Keng Maeder: You know, we are all human, right? It depends on when they ask the questions and there are good days and there are bad days, right? And I guess one of these things that if you already know that you have a bad day is say, oh, you have very good questions. How about you take note of this question or ask one today because I don't have that capacity to answer all of them. We work on maybe one or two, you know, just break it down and say, wow, how brilliant, you have so many good questions. Let's try to tackle them slowly because they are good questions and you deserve attention for your answer. However, I don't have that attention, right?

4:37Hwee Keng Maeder: So you also, I think what you do with the children signals to them how you handle life, how you manage it. and you can send these subtle messages to them.

4:48Rachel Lim: And Huyking, I want to go back to the little story you shared in the first episode on, you know, the child that was at the zoo, that walked past the elephants and the giraffes and really just crouched down and was so fascinated by an ant. What is it that we are trying to protect in that child?

5:05Hwee Keng Maeder: Because, okay, so you have paid entrance for the zoo, right? The point is to let them see animals, to learn how to, you know, We go around with what we like for them. But they have their own ideas of what they like. So I see a discrepancy between, this is the you've got this. You see? You've got this, you've got this. You know how to learn the animals of the zoo. And you know, afterwards you can display your knowledge or you can work with them. Or you know, you have to understand that we want something. They have their own ideas about something. So you've got this. You've got this. You've got this curiosity, right?

5:42Hwee Keng Maeder: That's the big thing. Oh, you're fascinated about ants? Why are you fascinated about ants? What is so fascinating about them? You know?

5:48Rachel Lim: So instead of going to the curiosity,

5:51Hwee Keng Maeder: you decide that what they should be curious about. And that's on down your alley, not down their alley. So they come to learn that it's always about, you know, fulfilling your goals, your agences, your plans, your ambitions. It's not about them, right? Where is the concern for them in this equation?

6:13Rachel Lim: And repeatedly, if that keeps happening, what happens within the child, you think?

6:18Hwee Keng Maeder: You get this compliant child because the child is not afraid, right? Because they started by asking you a lot of questions, right? But after getting a lot of non-response or negative response, they start to internalize and say, if I want the connection, then I better not do this. I better do this within the boundaries. I better follow. Yes, so that they are, I know, they start to learn, right, your boundaries. And they start to work according to your boundaries. Because they don't want to shake the connection, right? But you unknowingly have put this upon them, right? Because you're saying, I have boundaries.

6:59Hwee Keng Maeder: When you do this, I'm not happy. When you do this, I'll say no. When you do this, I'll tell you to do something else. But that's what you are doing. You're not saying that, hey, don't worry, you do it. Oh, never mind even is silly. And nothing is really silly. You learn from silliness. You learn from whatever stupidity. Even stupidity has a role.

7:19Rachel Lim: Right?

7:20Hwee Keng Maeder: You say, oh, don't I? I don't really care about the results. Then when you get results, oh, so disappointed. No. No. Then you are not a safe space, right? Because you say it's okay. But you say it's okay and you show it's not okay. They're not stupid. They know. They know. Right? Right? And so they send even worse. Right now you send mixed signals. It's okay. Is it not okay? I don't really know.

7:46Rachel Lim: Yeah.

7:46Hwee Keng Maeder: Of course, my parents say it's okay. But here they feel so disappointed. Right? The focus should be on them.

7:51Rachel Lim: What is the bigger philosophy behind this? Or the bigger belief that you have behind this that allows you to almost fully lean into the child and let them lead you in that sense?

8:04Hwee Keng Maeder: The belief that they are their own people. That's the belief. and you have got to trust that even though they are young, I think you see in your own children, right? By the time they are three, you sort of already know kind of the basic ingredients that makes this child. So you have a choice. You have a choice to bring out what you believe and nourish this, or you want to go your way. You want to let a tulip, a seed become a rose and you insist on having a rose. You never get a rose. You can only get a very, very, very beautiful tulip. And if you don't like tulip, too bad. Too bad for you. Learn to like it.

8:48Hwee Keng Maeder: Because that's what you get.

8:49Rachel Lim: Yeah. Which reminds me also in the weekend, I think like children are born curious. But along the way, I think sometimes, like you said, the little, little things that we do unconsciously to the kids diminishes or kills that curiosity. What do you think are other well-meaning and well-intentioned actions or things that we do as parents that really kills their curiosity?

9:13Hwee Keng Maeder: We do a lot of things to kill their curiosity. We tell them to toe the line, you know. We don't let them experiment with things that we think are dangerous. It's well-meaning, right? Like you say, oh, how can a three-year-old learn how to use a knife? How can a three-year-old cook their own eggs or whatever? How can a three-year-old even go near the stove, right? But it's not about what this three-year-old can or cannot. If they want, you first equip them with the knowledge. You tell them the dangers that it involves. You tell them what it involves to take on such a task. You tell them that this task has a certain risk and certain consequences.

9:56Hwee Keng Maeder: And when it comes to safety, you don't compromise. But if you're not taking a chopper and you don't, you know, you show them the way first and then you let them, you hold your hands to do it first. Then maybe you slowly let go. But you say, oh, no, no, no, you cannot go through knives because it's so dangerous. So a lot of signaling is gone through this, right? And you deprive them of an opportunity to learn. Of course, as a parent, you know better to gauge whether it's doable, not doable. Can they manage? Can they not manage? right? Or can the character take it? Because for example, I have three, right?

10:34So Max,

10:36Hwee Keng Maeder: we let him dive at six years old because Max, he's very engineer. You know, you tell him, do this, do that, do that. He's precise. He's very precise and he takes those steps. Okay, so he started to dive at six years old. I have his brother, never takes instruction. You tell him, go left, you go right, you tell him don't, he'll do it. Can I take him diving? No, because diving has an element of danger. If he doesn't comply underwater, there might be very grave consequences and danger. So I don't. I tell him, okay, if you learn how to, you know, if you do exactly, then you go through this and then if you display some, then I can have confidence that you will follow what I say, then I will do it with you.

11:27Hwee Keng Maeder: And then he eventually started to dive at eight. It's not the same for every child, but I'm saying that you can give them the same exposure, but you don't have to walk. You can walk them through, but you don't have to go through the entire action. But what we always say is, no, we just have a very clear boundary of where we go and don't go with the children.

11:47Rachel Lim: And do you have any also like personal encounters with your boys on like, I mean, for you also, right, I know curiosity is something that is one of the key value that you want to protect and nurture. What do you look out for in your kids to know that that is still alive within them?

12:05Hwee Keng Maeder: Oh, if they keep asking questions, if they keep asking good questions and their questions get better and better and they challenge you, that's the hallmark, you know, you can't want to raise a curious child that doesn't challenge you. Then it's not a curious Then it's someone who is just wanting you to behave the way you want them to. They may have questions. It's not they don't. I don't. I mean, it's difficult for me to think that children don't question their parents. Question is, are they allowed to vocalise? What happens when they vocalise it? So creating that safe space for them to be able to voice out.

12:42Rachel Lim: Yes, yes.

12:43Hwee Keng Maeder: And then reason with them. Reason with them. Because when you do, I think when you create a safe space for them to work out their reasoning, it is also advantageous. It also is a process for them to say, oh, it's okay to discuss with my parents. There's no taboo subjects. There's no, my parents don't judge me because of that. My parents will not tell me what's right, what's wrong. You know, they would share with me their ideas and I can take home. I can take back and think about it myself. I don't do the thinking for you. I can't do the thinking for you. I can equip you with, and I can let you feel safe.

13:21Hwee Keng Maeder: It's okay to think whatever you think, no matter how ridiculous it is.

13:25Rachel Lim: And just voice it out and talk it through. Yes. And it's a fine line, right? How do you also not judge if they share things with you about a certain something that they're thinking about? So there's another incident where, Okay, Carl goes to my second boy.

13:45Hwee Keng Maeder: He goes and he meets with these other kiters who are a little more fun-oriented, you know, and they go and do funny stuff. And I don't think he's at the age to do it, right? But, you know, I see him a little bit close to those people. And I ask him, oh, it seems that you get along well with these people, right? So instead of coming first to say that you disagree, yes. But when you judge a child, you put the person in a very defensive position. And then the next thing they will do is not tell you because you already showed disapproval. Why should I share with you something that I know you disapprove?

14:17Hwee Keng Maeder: I don't disapprove. I'm curious. I want to know why you like those people, right? He would say, he said like, oh yeah, they're very fun. They're funny and everything. Then he made a statement when I know, okay, I can relax. It's just, although they're fun, although I like to, you know, hang around, but I think they're a little bit, their behavior is a little bit rough for me. So there, he has a judgment for himself. He's able to discriminate. He's able to discern what he wants to take out of that relationship and what he doesn't want.

14:53Rachel Lim: So I don't have to say any more. You know, in this episode, we also really want to dive deeper into curiosity, intrinsic motivation. And I think as I was also reflecting and preparing for this episode, I realized that underneath all of that, the core is really self-trust. and there are moments where sometimes we need to lean into perseverance where we need to also give that kid a teaching moment to push through discomfort and difficulties versus giving them a way out and so my question to you is how do we discern and know that this is a moment of perseverance versus this is a moment where I need to listen because the kid is telling me something important about him So for example, if a kid starts a sports class and he's been through several lessons and after that he says, oh, he doesn't want to go for it anymore and wants to give it up.

15:50Rachel Lim: What should a parent do?

15:52Hwee Keng Maeder: Okay, so I'll give you an example, okay? So I sent my youngest child to Greece for a summer camp. It's a Greek camp. So he doesn't speak the language. He doesn't He doesn't Know the country How old was he? 9, 8, 9

16:11Rachel Lim: And he was going alone Yeah, I mean He went with friends' children

16:15Hwee Keng Maeder: But they were like All the children alone Okay And He called me every day Saying, mom I need to come home Okay So what goes through in me, right? I asked him You're not enjoying it? Why? Why? He said, oh mom The food is not so good. You know, they serve a lot of greens and he doesn't like salad. Okay. So, oh, they play a lot of basketball. Soccer. I don't like soccer, you know. Okay. Anything else? Oh, you know, you know. Okay. So through the conversation, what did I pick up? He's homesick. Is it normal that when you send a child away to be on his own, he will feel homesick?

17:00Rachel Lim: Yes. With completely foreign environment. Government, language. Yes. Is it uncomfortable for him? Yes.

17:06Hwee Keng Maeder: So, of course, instinct as a mom, I better take him home.

17:09Rachel Lim: He's not feeling good. Rescue him.

17:11Hwee Keng Maeder: Rescue, right? That's your way out, right? No. I sit with my own uncomfortable feelings. Look, it's not about danger. He did not mention that somebody was bullying him. He didn't mention that it was bad organization. He didn't give me those safety concerns. I didn't sense any of this. So I didn't see that the situation needed my intervention. So, but I didn't want to tell him, oh, I'm not doing anything. You just got to sit in with your discomfort, right? So I go, oh, you know what? Oh, I can understand, you know, it's a foreign place and it's not. Let me think of a way how we're going to do this, okay?

17:48Hwee Keng Maeder: Because you don't really like it and blah, blah, blah. So at the end, I just delayed, okay? And I let him get over the homesickness. And after a few days, he stopped saying he really wanted to come home. He just said, oh, yeah, and this and that, and you know, a little bit of, you just take it. You just take the complaints, right? And ask yourself, is it something you need intervention? Or just let him sit through with it. Let him go through with it. And he went through with it. And for all the dislikes, right, he may not do another chem again. But he's gone through one chem and he actually said a few weeks after he came out of one chem, actually the chem was kind of good, you know.

18:27Hwee Keng Maeder: But it started out with, this camp is good, but it's not for me.

18:30Rachel Lim: Because of the food, because of the activities and everything.

18:33Hwee Keng Maeder: But that's life, right? Sometimes you just have to do the things that's not 100 % your taste, but you do it. There's also like self-confidence now, right? I mean, I can't make it on my own now. It's also a little bit of pride, you know, I've gone through this. It was not so easy, right? Maybe he doesn't realize it, but there's a little bit of self-fulfillment. So you have given the child an opportunity to feel proud of himself, to be there for himself. But you signal that you're always there to rescue him. There's always a way out. But the way out is not always the easy way out. You know, it's only when there's a real issue, you will take him out.

19:11Rachel Lim: And I think one of the things that you also shared, which really impacted me was, you know, when Max was growing up and his competitions. And you had to catch yourself asking yourself, like, is it for him or is it for me?

19:22Hwee Keng Maeder: Yeah. Because in the beginning, you always want your child to win, right? Then you ask yourself, you want to win because you can say he wins or because it's good for him? Because at one point I said, he should perhaps lose a competition or two. Because that's the test of your grace under, can you be a good loser? And you can then understand people who put in effort also don't win. It doesn't mean that you put in your effort, you will win. There's a whole lot of a process, there is duration, there's time, there's effort, there's a whole lot of other ingredients that you have to realize. That it works, it has all to come together.

20:05Hwee Keng Maeder: And whether you win or you don't win, sometimes it's a stroke of luck. It's a timing issue, it's a destiny, it's a luck issue, it's so many things involved. So if you concentrate on this and you let the results define you, you lose everything. You lose your way. So you focus on the process. The process is what counts, right? You're there. You're training. You're present. You show up. You deal with your frustrations. You deal with your human limits. You deal with everything.

20:39Rachel Lim: Then the result is a byproduct, right? At this point, do you still find yourself asking yourself, are you doing it for them or are you doing it for yourself in any other aspect? No, no more. How can we get there? That depends on how much self-reflection you want to do, right?

20:57Hwee Keng Maeder: You know, my husband, Valentin, like to say this a lot. And it's so true, right? You go, you know, you go about life. You can just sort of like muddle through. And in our society, you do things that are not very efficient and everything, you still can go under the radar. You don't get the bill so quickly. You can get away with it. And you can dilute yourself the whole life. Not much consequences, right? But in competitions, you can't delude yourself. Because the consequences are immediate, right? You don't have the right mindset, you lose. You don't do this. You feel, you don't do this. Your bill is quickly handed out to you.

21:38Hwee Keng Maeder: You have to face your limitations very quickly. And that's one of the advantages of having high performance or even any sport. Competitive sports. Yeah. Any sports, any competitive sports or any sports you do competitively challenges yourself, your human limits very quickly. And you've got to look into yourself. And if you can't deal with your human limits, you can't get ahead. That's the basis. I think a lot of parents, you know, I want to say this very clearly. A lot of parents have the good intentions. Yes. But intentions are not good enough because intentions, good intentions has unintended consequences.

22:20Hwee Keng Maeder: You know, so you talk about selflessness, I never think of it this way, right? I think of it as how do I as a person, me, how do I want to carry out my life so that my children can look and learn from it? Because monkey see, monkey do is much more prevalent in humans than in monkeys. We do it much better. So we have to look at ourselves first. And what my children taught me, more than anything else, is to be very real with me. And honest with ourselves. Yes, because whatever I do is going to mimic in them. No, they don't reflect you. They reflect your values. and the values are not reflected in results.

23:08Hwee Keng Maeder: They are reflected in the process. They are reflected in the way they handle things, not the result of how they handled it. You need to repeat that again.

23:20Rachel Lim: Because we often think that children are a reflection of us and a direct reflection of us. And which is why sometimes when they do well, we feel extremely proud because it reflects very well on us. I know I shared this with you that when I found myself sitting in Ollie's principal office and her sharing that she's very worried for Ollie because he's not reading as well as his peers, I sat there and I remember feeling like embarrassed because I felt that it was reflecting on me.

23:52Hwee Keng Maeder: So, you know, in this instance, it is a lot of why are you, why do you feel embarrassed? Because you are taking the society, right? How they would see you as a parent. But that's not your role as a parent, right? If we understand our role as a parent, our role as a parent is to give, to be that safety net, right? Let's say if he was really slow, let's say, okay? Then the question is, what can I do to help him? How would embarrassment help in any of this? You can feel what you feel, but what you feel will translate into actions to Ollie that later will give him self-doubt. Because my mom is not even sure about me.

24:38Hwee Keng Maeder: How can I be sure about myself? And they absorb, of course. Yes, they absorb the feeling. So I think we have to be very, very clear that whose role. I think this is a good, for example, a good time to tell Ollie, Ollie, your teacher shows concern. Rightfully so. Because their role is educator and you don't meet their. standards. They have certain milestones. You don't meet them. But that's fine. In mummy's eye, you're still the same Ollie. I love you just as much. But what can we do about it? Because I think we have to equip the children with how to deal with frustration, how to deal with when your peers are doing something that you feel is a skill you want but you can't achieve.

25:28Hwee Keng Maeder: So let's look at it. Do you want this skill? Would you like it? Okay, you will like it. So now we have to do steps to acquire the skill that you want, that you see in others, that you will like, right? And then you can, I mean, it's very concrete, right? I mean, learn to read and write is a few lessons of, you know, sitting down. And if he doesn't, maybe in the process you find out something else. You know, he says, okay, then if you want to do this, let's do this together. Let's have a plan. Let's be concrete about it. Because taking actions at least gives you some direction. It also gives you signals about what this failure signal is trying to tell you.

26:06Hwee Keng Maeder: Failure signal, okay? So it also helps him to discover himself. But acknowledge that you'll be frustrating. Acknowledge that he will feel uncomfortable. Because being competent in something is looking very incompetent for a long while. And then you become comfortable and looking competent. That's what it is. It's called a learning process. Right?

26:29Rachel Lim: And I love that in that process, you got him to agree that this is something that we want to achieve together. And then got him also involved in the planning process. And this is what we're going to do to get us there.

26:42Hwee Keng Maeder: I always try to get children's buy-in. That's very important. Because if they are doing something that they are doing for you or you impose it on them, For me, it's already a losing battle Don't even go there

26:57Rachel Lim: And no matter the age No

26:59Hwee Keng Maeder: Of course, there are clear rights and wrongs But then that's already worked before That you have to do to share values And from situations Tell them what they think Ask them what they think And share with them what your take is on the matter So they know your takes on the matter It's also important to say sometimes there's no right or wrong. It's different exhibitions, different accessibility, and different ways to look at the same thing. The more we can tell them to be more accepting, and the more we are accepting, the more they will accept themselves even. And that's the most important, right, at the end of the day.

27:44Hwee Keng Maeder: Yes. You know, something that I had a discussion with my husband. You know, sometimes you do something and you don't really understand the principles. It's like you do work, you do work, you do work. Is it blindly? You do it, you don't think about it. But now I'm overlaying the principles over. I'm putting a layoff, something more workable for people, something that people can hold on to and they don't feel so crazy or something. I just felt crazy before, right? Then people will say, oh, it's the way you parent, you criticize too much, we criticize, we must not criticize. Then we become on the other end.

28:18Hwee Keng Maeder: strawberry yeah cannot take brews cannot so why is it I was thinking why in my generation because my husband was saying yeah but you know this and that I said look in our generation okay we had a lot of room we had a lot of freedom right it's a benign neglect correct

28:37Rachel Lim: you give them

28:38Hwee Keng Maeder: other spaces where they can collect their self-worth they have this group of friends we're going to play dolls with we play goalie we play marbles with these boys We have cousins We take We take baths You know What I'm trying to say is that If you don't give them pockets Where they can collect Their self-worth, right Their entire self-worth Is based on you And the teacher

29:00Rachel Lim: Which Which is so scary It's scary on the one hand

29:04Hwee Keng Maeder: But if you want to If you want to do this You can Then you have to be very Very careful Because they only have Two avenues to collect self-worth You know In which The educators Give judgment Based on academics Okay They never give you points for character. They only give you points for academic, right? How if we say, oh, now we don't need great grades. We grade a lot of whole other things. You know, how helpful you are in school, blah, blah, blah. It's like, you know, in a competition, sail GP is the only class in sailing where you have to give results reporting and sustainability reporting. Ah, now it's not only the best.

29:39Hwee Keng Maeder: You have to be best, also be sustainable. So you say, if I grade also on other factors, how would it look like? But the most important thing what I want to tell you is this if you don't give them other pockets of freedom because they're fetched to school they're taken back from school they go to the activities that you assign for them they don't really make friends out of their own choice you decide what kind of good environment is good for them whatever it is they only have you and the teaching the education to collect their self-worth and their self-trust you know so whatever you do and you keep giving negative how do you expect them to feel confident?

30:14Rachel Lim: Which is why adults struggle today because our identity is just tied to work. And if work fails in that aspect, I find myself being lost because I forgot who I am as a friend, as a daughter, as a wife. Where it is healthier to, like you say, have different pockets where we can collect confidence in that aspect. So as parents, what should we do to also ensure that...

30:36Hwee Keng Maeder: I'll tell you what I do, okay? Yeah. Take Vijay, okay? He's 10 years old. I sent him around. You know, I said, listen, you know, I tell him this, okay? I said, a Saturday, he wants to go to the wake park, okay? It takes me 32 minutes to fetch you there, okay? I see the MRT, it takes 38 minutes. Of course, I know it takes a bit more, so in 10 minutes to walk and all. So I just have to give him the frame. So there's six-minute difference, six-minute difference. I say, okay, dear, my boy, it's a Saturday. You don't have school tomorrow, okay? You're going there not for one, two hours You're going there for like five hours Okay So I said Listen, logic okay You have six minutes of difference You're six minutes faster But I take 32 minutes to go there I take 32 minutes to come back That's one hour, four minutes for me Then That's concern number one okay My time is also valuable Correct Number two There's no sustainability I fetch you there Two of us in a car We go all the way there And then I come back empty All the way There's no purpose.

31:40Hwee Keng Maeder: Yeah. Then I said, it really doesn't make sense. But if you want it, I'll do it. But you have to bear in mind that this is what I'm doing. And this is not anything that... He said, okay, mom, just send me to an MRT. 10 years old. Yes. You know? So I give him pockets. Then he goes to Wake Park. I don't interfere with his whatever. His five-hour training. No, I don't. I don't. Because I don't even go. So he goes there. I don't know who he makes friends with I don't know whatever he does there You know And I go there once in a while I get feedback See that's your feedback You get feedback Your son He's so determined He's so friendly Okay so you get all this right Yeah

32:24Rachel Lim: And what are you doing for him? You're giving him pockets?

32:26Hwee Keng Maeder: I'm giving him the I'm diversifying his portfolio What a great banker you are Right? It's a portfolio Yes It's a portfolio He collects trust, integrity I give him a portfolio Right? If I see the portfolio has some not very, you know, return on integrity. Yeah. Return.

32:44Rachel Lim: ROI. ROI. Return on integrity.

32:48Hwee Keng Maeder: Then I step in. I say, let me look at the portfolio. Adjust maybe the constitution. Right? You don't go and meddle in every small thing she does. I need to manage your friends. Never mind if he has one or two not very good friends, not very good influence. What you think is not very good influence? Draw from it also. Ask them what they like about this friend Like me What you like about this friend Why you don't like about this friend You know, not everybody You know

33:12Rachel Lim: All of us has naughty friends

33:14Hwee Keng Maeder: All of us has friends that go But we don't turn out like that

33:17Rachel Lim: Why? You trust that they have the discernment

33:19Hwee Keng Maeder: You have to trust that your parenting Has gone through somehow, right? I mean, then you have to ask yourself Deeper questions, right? If you really just follow anybody Blindly But it can be that a child By nature Like to please everybody And then follow whatever Then you have different methods, right? But first, you need to access money. You don't go in in every situation and, you know, try to manufacture even the environment, right? Anything that's not authentic, that's not coming from a child, it's not sustainable.

33:45Rachel Lim: Yeah. And also, can you tell us the story of when you had observed when you were in Singapore and driving and, you know, the schoolboy passing the road with his helper? I think that was a very important reminder for me and I think for a lot of parents out there. I think, you know, what I observe is parents are very concerned about safety here.

34:11Hwee Keng Maeder: And because we live in quite a bubble, Singapore is one of the safest countries in the world. They really, by any standards, you ask any foreigner, you come as a woman, you don't, I'm not afraid to walk out at three o 'clock at night. We have very few corners where we say you can't walk there alone. Okay. And do things happen? Of course they do. But the rate and the probability that it happens are so low. So what does it tell you? It tells you that if you want to experiment with your children and to give them independence and build through their own self-action, you're able to do it here more than you can do it anywhere else.

34:49Hwee Keng Maeder: But what do we do with that? We take it to the extreme. We don't want them to even cross a road. We want to save time for them, whatever it is that you want to do for them, right? There's a lot of, we can give a thousand and one reasons for the things we want to do, and we can give a thousand and one reasons for the things we don't want to do. So it's about priorities, right? And I know this is everywhere, okay, from the east to the west, okay, to the north, to the south. Doesn't matter. Parents with a good intention of saving time, effort, whatever, safety, convenience, whatever, they drive their children from door to door, literally, okay?

35:27Hwee Keng Maeder: What does it mean? It means that you have robbed your child of the opportunity to exercise decision-making during the period of traveling, during the journey to go to school. And that's a very basic one and an everyday one. You may see that, what's so good about walking to school? What's so important? No, they have to make decisions. Is it safe to cross the road? Is it safe to talk to a stranger? What's my environment like? Are there dangers around my immediate surrounding? How do I go about? And there's also time management, right? Because my boy has to leave a little bit earlier because he likes to pick sticks along the way.

36:13Hwee Keng Maeder: He likes to, you know, look at the trees or he wants to look at the monkeys or he plays with the chicken, he wants to observe. So he knows. And if he's late, it's not my problem. You walk to school. It's not because, mom, you didn't wake me up early enough. What is it my responsibility to wake you? You are going to school. You wake up when you need to wake up. It's not my responsibility. It's yours. And what is yours, I give it to you and you should be responsible for it. He says, mom, I'm very late. Send me to school. No. Why? You didn't manage your time and I have to pay for it? No. You all to school?

36:47Hwee Keng Maeder: But I'm laying and I teacher. Then you explain to your teacher. Then don't be late. it's not my problem, right?

36:55Rachel Lim: Because what you're doing here is also to allow him to experience the consequence. And at this age, I mean, the consequence and as for the example,

37:03Hwee Keng Maeder: is still very negligible. Nobody gets traumatized or damaged by one time the teacher says,

37:10Rachel Lim: why are you late for school? Right. But more importantly, what he learns from here on is that he has to be responsible to wake up earlier and to have better time management.

37:20Hwee Keng Maeder: I can't come in for you every time.

37:22Rachel Lim: I cannot. And I won't. because it's not reasonable.

37:26Hwee Keng Maeder: It's not responsible on your part. And I'm not compensating for your irresponsibility. Even at 10? Already at 10. You should start earlier.

37:37Rachel Lim: I start earlier, way earlier. You know, going back to compliance, what is your goal when it comes to raising your sons, when it comes to compliance?

37:47Hwee Keng Maeder: I don't have a goal when it comes to compliance because I'm non-compliant. You know, I didn't raise any champions. I just raised human beings who got freedom to choose what they want to do and decide to do it well. That's who I've raised. So besides being compliant or non-compliant, I think that the most important thing is I want to raise them to be good, conscious human beings. Conscious means they are knowledgeable enough to understand the consequences of their actions and what they want to contribute to society. Because contribution gives you a lot of energy. Contributions not only do good for the people who receive it, but it does even more good for the people who contribute it, I think.

38:39Hwee Keng Maeder: So I would like them to enjoy it. Enjoy the journey. Know that we are always there for them. we will help them and we will always be their support to help them, to give them a platform where they can make their own contributions in their own way in society.

39:00Rachel Lim: And to the parents who are listening to you now and with regards to this topic on self-trust and building self-trust in our kids, what is one small thing that you think we can as parents start doing and also one small thing that we can stop doing in order to build self-trust in our kids.

39:22Hwee Keng Maeder: Maybe change by not saying you've got this. Like try it. You've got this. You've got this. So when we say you've got this, we are unconsciously loading pressure on them because they go like, if I don't get this, what will mom think? What will dad think? How would they react? How would they, you know? Say, don't worry. Don't worry. Just go do it. We've got you. We've got you. We'll be behind you. That's a very different message. But it's only a question of changing the pronoun.

39:52Rachel Lim: Yeah.

39:53Hwee Keng Maeder: From you to we. That's one thing you can really do. Start with your, maybe with your words. The language. The language. Then the actions will follow. I think the actions will follow. In the end, you convince yourself, you know. Yeah. You lie, you lie, and you lie. And in the end, you become, you know, you believe in your own lies, you know.

40:15Rachel Lim: Yeah. Anything else you'd like to share with us in this episode?

40:20Hwee Keng Maeder: Well, I think to fully get a better view, follow the episodes. I hope that it helps the parent to feel less alone if they think differently or give them another way to look at the same things that has been going on around us and just wake up to our own consciousness before we bring consciousness to the children. That's mine.

40:45Rachel Lim: Thank you, Huy King, for who you are and what you do. We'll see you at the next episode. Thank you, Rachel.