Raising Conscious Humans: Raising the Child You Have, Not the Child You Want

0:00Rachel Lim: I have to be very honest with you, I am so excited about this episode and series. The kind where, you know, you've been sitting on something for a while now and you finally get to do it and share it. This series, Raising Conscious Humans, has been one of the most meaningful things I've worked on. I'm a mum to Ollie and Kira and if I'm being completely honest, you know, parenting is the thing that I think about the most. It's usually the thing that keeps me up at night, the last thing that I really think about lying in bed at 2am, wondering if I'm getting it right. My guest today has become one of the most important voices in my own parenting journey.

0:38Rachel Lim: She has shifted how I see things. She has helped me slow down and also helped me get clear on what actually matters and let go of so much of what doesn't. I leave every conversation with her feeling like I can breathe again. And then I've also had the privilege of spending time with her sons, feeling their warmth, their curiosity, their characters, their ease with themselves. Not perfect, not performing, just whole. And I thought, you know, every parent needs to hear from the woman who raised them. She raised three sons across three countries. She homeschooled most of them. She built a parenting philosophy without a book or a platform.

1:19Rachel Lim: You might know her as the mum of Singapore's youngest Olympic medalist, Max Meder, but she is so much more than that. And today, you're going to hear why. I'm so glad you're here for this one. Welcome, Huy Keng. Thank you, Rachel. I'm still learning myself, Rachel. Believe me. So, we're going to start with you, right? How was it like for yourself growing up as well? And I also want to ask you how you see the world through your eyes, especially growing up. Oof, I'm not a very compliant by nature person. Some people have very smooth personalities and, you know, they say yes to everything. I may say yes, but I don't think yes.

2:00So that has been innate since I'm young.

2:03Rachel Lim: And how young are you talking about? Maybe as far as I can remember, which is maybe six, seven. Yeah. When I started to go to school or even before that, actually. When my mom asked me to do something and I said yes, but I really do it frontingly and with a lot of resentment. And so then you realize growing up that you tend to think differently and tend to not conform. If I look back, yes. At that time, it was just, why can't I just say yes and then be more happy about it? Because I struggled a lot. I struggled a lot because nobody understands why are you always doing something else or doing something different?

2:41or it makes me feel different. And at that time, you just want to be the same. You want to blend in. And so you went to school in Singapore. I went to the primary school in Singapore. I went to secondary school all the way through university. So I'm like a good model girl at that time. I followed the institution all the way through until I graduated.

3:03Rachel Lim: Okay. And did you know already that this might be something, especially when it comes to being your own parent, this might be something that you want to rethink if and when you become a parent, being in the education system that you were in. Or it never crossed your mind until much later? No. Everything I do is not very well planned. I just know how I feel, what I want to do, what I want to achieve. And then I set myself to do it. And the goals are not like visionary. It's just like a step ahead, a step ahead, you know? Yeah. You know, I've heard you also say, Huy King, that you believe that education comes in many different forms.

3:38Rachel Lim: When did you start really thinking about that or believing that? Oof, I can't pinpoint to a time, but as a child, I just realized that everybody focused on results. And I was, of course, I wouldn't say victim, but I was also in this rat race where everybody was about getting good results, getting good results. and you're constantly being compared with your siblings, with your neighbours, with your friends. Like, who got this? How much? And I wasn't very into that at all. Yeah. I thought learning has to be more fun, more about like really wanting to know something rather than having the score to say that you know something which you don't really know.

4:23Rachel Lim: Right. Or you might have just regurgitated. Definitely. Yeah. Well, I want to get to that later. But first, I also want to, you know, have you share more about your journey, especially starting a family. You know, you're a Singaporean Chinese woman, you married a Swiss man, you have three boys and you raised them across three different countries like Singapore, Indonesia, Switzerland and you homeschooled most of them, right? What was that journey like and how did you come up with your parenting philosophy that goes against the grain of what you yourself were brought up in? Okay, I think everything is a bit haphazard, you know, because I didn't plan to marry a Swiss guy.

5:04We are good Chinese, educated. In the 90s, have you heard of SPG? Yes. So I was labelled at SPG because, you know, and I had a boyfriend who is now my husband who was like my ghost boyfriend because I was ashamed to bring him up. Yeah, to embarrass. And my parents weren't very enthusiastic because I had a Chinese one before whom they really liked. So there you go. So I decided that, yeah, okay, if I can't convince them now, then too bad, I will just have to wait it out.

5:40Rachel Lim: And so when you started a family and when you had kids, how did you start thinking about, you know, how you wanted to raise them? And how did you and Valentin also come to this, like, shared philosophy on how you want to raise your boys? Okay, I think I start with a very, you know, we are very family-oriented, right? So I have Chinese parents. He has Swiss parents. Of course, another culture means that you have to cross and you have to merge somehow in a harmonious way. And always, for me, it starts with the language. If you don't understand a language, it's difficult to understand the people and the culture because a lot of what we learn, the words that we describe, the amount of words we use to describe certain things tells you what the culture emphasizes on, right?

6:35Like in Chinese, we have 人情味. How do you translate that to another language? I haven't found a real equivalent, okay? So it's very, for me, I just started with what I would like my children, who I like my children to connect with. The most immediate one being the grandparents of both sides. So they have to learn English, not English, Mandarin, and German.

6:58Rachel Lim: Yeah. And Swiss German. So, Daddy speaks to them in German. Swiss German. Swiss German. And then you speak to them in Mandarin. Yes. Right from the start. I know, you know, like, when I'm with her, she will be showing, like, you know, or she'll be texting her sons and they're always texting her in Mandarin. And it's like, long Mandarin messages from, I'm like, shocked. And this has been, and she was telling me, this has been, as long as she could remember, they only converse in Mandarin. And so, you know, language aside, How did you and Valentin also decide that, okay, maybe you want to think differently when it comes to also educating them?

7:33Rachel Lim: We don't have this kind of thoughts. We just thought like what we want. It's really about what we want, then whether it's different or the same. Some of your thinking can be the same with others. And that's fine. It's not about whether you want to be same or different for me. It's about what you want and what suits you or your family or how you would like your family to go about doing things. So it's not so much about same or different. It just happens that not many people choose the way that I have chosen. Yes. And can you give us context? How old are your boys now? Okay, Max is 20 or going 20 this year.

8:10My second boy is going 18. And my youngest is 10. Okay, so 2018-10.

8:20Rachel Lim: Yeah. Okay. And I can't imagine, especially during the time 20 years ago, So, I mean, for you to decide to homeschool your boys, it must have been unheard of. Yeah. Right? Yeah. What was that journey like? And what made you decide that maybe you don't want to enroll them into the school system? Okay. So, it was not about enrolling or not enrolling. Like, a lot of decisions, we just make it on the base of needs. So, I know. Yeah. And of what the family. Yeah, of the family. So, because we wanted him to learn Mandarin. so Mandarin's got to be in the curriculum. English, of course, is everyday's language.

9:00German, because the father is Swiss German and so the written language is German. And then we included something else which everyone would think is funny to call it a language but we decided that it was a language and that's math.

9:15Rachel Lim: Yes, I'm so intrigued when you were telling me about it. So math is a language. For us, it is, yeah. And what does math being a language look like in your family? So math as a language means you introduce to them, not about the numbers, but about the history. The history of how people need. Because everyone needs to count and, you know, with economy. And all of that requires a language to operate in. And this language is called math, right? We operate on it every day, but we just don't think about it. And with this comes the history and then the formula. and what it's used for. Yes, yes. So it's an entire world of its own.

9:55So we just think of numbers when it comes to math. But there's a lot more than numbers when it comes to math, right? Okay, I have so many questions. Firstly, how were you even exposed to this? I wasn't exposed to it. But I realized that I was taking what they call further math in college. I didn't like it at all. I wasn't that good in math, okay? And I realized why I didn't like math. Because our teachers never told us anything about math, except the formulas to memorize it, how to use it. So basically, very utilitarian. So nothing beyond what you need to do. And that doesn't create interest. Interest is curiosity.

10:42They didn't make us curious about anything. It's all so interesting. But we just learn formulas. And then when you ask why, don't ask why. Just use it. And just use it this way, that way. It's not so much for me. Don't question it. Don't question.

10:57Rachel Lim: And one thing that I love is also, and I remember distinctively, is that you were telling me about notion versus notation. Tell us more about that. You see, you know in math, we have a lot of notes, right? We're always busy making notes, okay? That's notation, right? But do we really have this notion? No. Notion is a concept. is embedded in some stories and theories, but we are not. So it's notion over notation. Because we take a lot of notes, but we have no notion of what it is. Yeah. And to you, you feel like that is something that is tragic, right? Yeah. Because you can actually, from what your notion, you can come up with your own notation, but we are busy copying the notes, taking notes, rather than understanding the notion and coming up with our own notes about it.

11:47What is the difference between a child who is educated versus a child who is notated? I think that's a very important step for critical thinking, right? Because if you just take notes without asking yourself, or what notes am I taking? Why do I take it this way? Do I copy one for one? Or can I listen first and then do it in my own way? It shows a certain level of understanding, right? If you're just copying notes, you don't have to understand anything that you've written. But if you make your own notes, then you have to understand. Yes, and you can come up with your own formulas if you have understood clearly what you were learning about.

12:20Rachel Lim: And you know, you talked earlier also about developing critical thinking and curiosity. What do you think, Hui King, you know, as a mom and parent today, what do you think are some of the most important skills we need to develop in our kids? Actually, all the skills that we need in our kids, we have to develop ourselves first. I'll give you an example. I was, I was, I still am, but less, much less degree now. I was a very impatient parent and you know, right? Okay, a very realistic example. So let's say you take the children to the zoo. Okay, you have paid your entrance fee and then ready to go in.

12:55Yeah, you go in and your child is curious about the ants on the floor. Okay, and you go, don't look at that, don't look at that. Let's go to look at the animals. You know, I paid to go and look at the animals. Not the ants and the leaves. But why not? Why do you, why do we have to hurry because we want to, you know, we feel like we've paid for something, then is that something we have to get? Rather than encourage the curiosity, oh, why are you curious about the ants? What fascinates you, right? Maybe then we can look into ants and how they form, you know, how they form their workmanship and how they go in groups and we can then learn more about ants but i think most or at least i would in the past just say oh come let's let's go

13:43Rachel Lim: and see the animals now let's go and see the animals now so leaning into their curiosity yes definitely so i you also share with me a lot online you know the questions that children ask and how you really would encourage that can you share with us also some examples on how you would really cultivate and nurture curiosity in our kids i think from when they're very young i'm sure you experience it with Oli and Kira too, right? Because kids are just being kids. They will always ask you a question. Mom, why is the sky blue? Why is the water blue? Why is this like that? Why? They have a lot of this.

14:15At three years old, they always ask why. It's all about why, right? And when we don't know what do we do, I don't ask so much. It is like that. Or, you know, I, when they ask me, I say, hmm, that's a good question. Let me, let's go into it, you know? And then if I don't know a topic, then I will look it up myself and then I will go through with them I'll read with them and at that time it was Google so we call him Dr. Google

14:41Rachel Lim: so that's how you also then start learning and investigating with them and teaching them how you're going to also research to get the answers how do you think raising them to be curious kids have paid off today? what does it look like? okay so I don't have to push them to learn anything if there's something they're interested in they would read about it and they will come back usually to their father but their curiosity will lead them to for the things that they are very interested in and curious about they will do it themselves for other maybe like you know current affairs we would have to try to encourage them or nudge them to do yeah but that's also so intentional because I don't think many parents think about the aspect also of getting out getting the kids at a certain age to also start, you know, thinking or reading up more about like current affairs and what's going on in the world beyond their everyday lives, beyond their bubble.

15:36I mean, it's very important because we are interconnected, right? So we don't function as us. So, you know, we try to share with them a lot of what we go through in our lives, including difficulties like during COVID. We even share with them because we run a business. So we share with them our challenges and we involve them, you know, Not in a sense of like they help to make us a decision, but we involve them in our process of decision-making so that they understand the considerations.

16:08Rachel Lim: So also like equipping them by bringing them along with you. Yes. Can you share the story which you shared with me about how you involved Max and let him make his own decision on his PR status? Oh, okay. I thought that was like, oh my gosh. I thought a parent would want to make a decision like that for their kid. Okay. I think the kids know a lot more than we do. think they know. And at that age when he was like 11 or I think 11 or 12, you know, certainly we started the conversation already about, you know, you have two nationalities, the laws requires that this and that, and you have to do a national service if you are.

16:47And then we got a friend, very good friend to talk to him about national service in Singapore. So he gets an idea. and then I also got him to talk to a fighter pilot, a friend of mine, her husband is a fighter pilot and I said, okay, you're interested in flying, talk to him about how, you know. So we got him to think about it and basically you give them the information and then you let them make the choice because at the end of the day, right, if he's a Singaporean, he's a Swiss, makes not much difference for me, right? It's his life. He will have to live with it. So I think he needs to understand the importance of the consequence of the choice, which are not bad.

17:26I mean, either you're Swiss or,

17:27Rachel Lim: you know, there are worse choices to make than Switzerland and Singapore. But what do you see your role as a parent then in this particular instance? In this instance, we are just enablers. We are just informing them, giving them the best, the most up-to-date and best information and letting them experience some of being, you know, they know how it's like to be Singaporean. And they know how it's like to be Swiss. And they have a lot of it. It's just that if ideally they would like to be dual nationality because they are part of both nationalities. But you know, you have to make a choice. In our case, he has to make a choice.

18:07So he was tasked with it and he did it.

18:12Rachel Lim: Amazing. What was it like back then when you decided that, okay, you know, I'm going to try and do it and do what's best for your kids? Yeah, I think a lot of what we do center around what we believe, right? Or at least we are one of those people, right? And, you know, our philosophy is, we've got you, you know? And by saying that, we say that we want to create a safe environment for the child. And how does this safe environment look like? What does it look like? And we weren't thinking about, like you say, this, you know, it's not a versus question. It's not a this versus this versus this. It's how do we want to set up the place or the environment to enable us to live out this philosophy for him.

19:04So we had the privilege of not staying in one place or we have to actually. And country, you mean. Yes. In one place for a long time. So we said, how do we then put him in a fixed environment? What does it look like? How does it work? And we realized that maybe the best is to keep them with us. And because of what we wanted, I told you in the first place, we couldn't find anywhere that would offer what we want. So we decided that we would do this on our own. And we weren't thinking about the challenges or we weren't thinking about, you know, it's only when I went in after some time. Yes What did I get myself into?

19:44Rachel Lim: Yeah And it was not so much like The work that I was challenged Because I didn't know any other way, right? Because I never sent them to school Or play school or anything So I didn't understand a different way But what was challenging Was the perception Everyone said What? They don't go to school? And this comes back again To what you say, Rich A lot of what we know Or what we do we believe that everyone else is doing. But it's not true. And that's why I think part of the reason I accepted to do this series with you is I hope that when people listen, they think, oh, actually, I can do things differently.

20:22And it's okay to do things differently, even if people were not to agree with me. You know, you will have in the end, the selection of the people who are in the same mentality or the same wavelength. You will gravitate towards them and then you will find your own group. It's okay.

20:39Rachel Lim: but I can imagine it must have been so tough back then oh yes and how did you hold your ground and were there times where maybe you questioned yourself and doubted whether this is really the right decision as a mom like you right I mean we always ask ourselves is this the best am I doing the right thing and we wanted to have a different it's always coming from the parent right so you feel like okay I want to give them an opportunity to have a different way. Also because of our circumstances. So it's never one reason. It's always a lot of reasons that gets you to do something. And you know, when you said there are so many nights and days where you just dub yourself and ask, you know, is this really the right, did I do the right thing?

21:25Rachel Lim: How did you get through those moments and just keep trudging on? Well, it's tough. I don't know. I just, because I'm very stubborn, I think. You know, if you're one of those people who never want to give up, And it was not about proving people because you don't take your child's life to prove people. It's a little bit of high stake. But more I was questioning more, am I really giving the best to my child? Because everyone tells me this is not the best, especially your own family. You know, you should do this and you should do that. But I guess it helps when, you know, you already have broken some rules along the way and it helps you to get used to people telling you that you don't do the right thing.

22:07Because I went out in the 90s, the SPG times, I was going out with an ang mo, was already wrong. I married one, even more wrong. And I went overseas because of a man. Okay, it's wrong, wrong, wrong. So I have been wrong so many times, right? It's another wrong.

22:26Rachel Lim: Wrong by whose standards, but yes, right? Exactly, wrong, that's why. Yes, yeah. On the converse side, was there a moment or time where you realized that actually this is i'm doing the right thing for my boys yeah i think it was the opportunity for max to publicly show who he was as a person this this comes again to your very um you know we are very hurt people we like to conform we like to hear acknowledged by so when you hear this publicly you feel like you have done the right thing whether it's right or not i still don't know. But at least it has been validated, you see. So we do a lot of things.

23:02We seek validation and acknowledgement. If it didn't get acknowledged or if it went another way, I may not have the same. I may not have this. I definitely will not have this opportunity to do this podcast, but it doesn't mean my ways are wrong, you know. So what I want to share is a lot of times when we parent, we give too much credit to ourselves and we give too much blame to ourselves. You know, we blame ourselves too much and we give ourselves too much credit also. We don't forget that there is a personality in that small human being. That is, it comes already with some fixed adjustments, but you don't know the settings.

23:40You are not sure what settings they are. So first, I think you need to find out the settings, then you need to put it in an environment where the settings can live up to its potentials. Exactly. So we are just, you know, we think we can engineer. We can't engineer. If they don't have the genius, they're not the genius, we can't engineer them. But a lot can be reinforced and definitely modified or toned down.

24:04Rachel Lim: More, yeah. And that's what I really love about how you parent freaking because it's not just a one-size-fits-all for all your three boys, right? And you really lean deeply into each and every one of them. For example, you homeschool Max and Carl. But for Valentin Junior VJ, you decided not to hold, I mean, you decided to enroll him into an institution. Well, I didn't decide to enroll him into an institution because we made this decision together. Right. So you co-decided with him that what's best for him is to be enrolled into an institution. Yeah. Tell us about that. I gave him the option. Okay.

24:37So what I noticed was last year...

24:40Rachel Lim: And Vijay is now 10, right? So last, at the beginning of last year, so 2025, I noticed that. So you know that we have a little business resort in Indonesia. Yes. And we go there a lot. And we have a lot of different guests. And, you know, when he was young, he loves to mix with all the guests. The adults. Yes, the adults, children, all. And he would make appointments to meet them at the jetty bar because we are diving resort. And then he would say, you know, like, mom, you sit there. Even at such a young age. Yeah, like three onwards, four, you know, he'll talk about dinosaurs, whatever. He talked to whoever wants, whoever wants to be his audience.

25:15And whoever, yeah, yeah. And he just goes and he's very happy right up to 2025 beginning. I noticed that he says, Mom, I don't want to go to Chetipa. I don't want to meet anybody. I don't want to talk. He doesn't really say that, but he stayed in our room. And he isolated himself a bit. And then he started to game. And then I started to observe because I was curious to find out what was he gaming. So he, like a lot of other children, Fortnite, Minecraft, you know. It was mainly Fortnite and Minecraft at that time. And then I just realized that every time he games, there's a voice on the other side.

25:57And this voice was always about the same person, right? It's always the same person. Lawrence! And he has different friends from different places. Gaming buddies. And he would say, Mom, Mom, Mom, can I do a live session today? I said, at 3 o 'clock. 3 o 'clock in the morning? I said, why? No. He says, no, but that's the only time my friends are there, you know, gaming. So over time, I realized that, oh, all these so-called friends, okay, gaming friends, are about the same age. So I start to realize, oh, my boy is growing up, right? And he doesn't want adult company anymore. He wants his peers.

26:32But I can't determine who comes. So I can't bring peers to him. And the one way that I can bring him to the peers is through schooling. That means we have to go to a school, right? or I can have other ways join a homeschooling group. In any case, the options were I have to put him into a group.

26:51Rachel Lim: Yeah, a different environment and setting. And I think he also enjoyed the constant, the regular people that he interacted with. So he wanted to form friendships that were not just a one-off. Yes. Yeah. So I asked myself and I spoke to my husband and together with him, we said, okay, I think we got to change our lifestyle. We need to ask him if he wants to do it. So the first step was ask him about it. Then we asked about which systems we want to go into, what would be the best for him. And then we decided to. And what was also changing in his life then was that besides him growing up, was also that his two elder brothers were travelling a lot for their own training and competition.

27:32Rachel Lim: That's true. And so he didn't have any. He was like an only child. He was pretty much the only child. Because it's an 8-year gap and 10-year gap also. And if you can, one thing that I love and you touched about a little earlier is on this notion of we've got you. Tell us more about that and this philosophy that you have. Okay, it's really a philosophy introduced by my husband actually and we just really love it because when you, we like to say, and you hear that a lot also in, I think in our society, like when they ask a child to do something, hi Coco, you've got this, you've got this, you know.

28:06When you say you've got this, the child is thinking, oh no, it's a subconscious, is a subtle pressure. And the child is afraid that if I don't get it, what's going to happen? Because you've got this as a performance language. Yeah. You're focusing on the performance. Whereas we've got you. It's more about the safety net. It's more about the connection. It doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter whether you do it right, you do it wrong. The results don't matter. Don't matter at all. But we've always got you. We are your safety net. So go out and try. Go out and do your best. Go out and fail even.

28:45But we'll always get you. We'll always have you. See, it's a very, it's a switch in the way that you make them feel. And it's the connection that you're focusing on, not the achievements.

28:57Rachel Lim: Right. And it's almost like We've Got You also tells them that your self-worth and our love for you is not contingent on your performance or the results. No, it's not tied to anything. It's just you. You are from us and we love you no matter what. So practically, how was it like raising a voice with the we've got you mentality? So maybe some of you remember that, you know, I was at the beach during the Olympics. And it was the finals or whatever. And they interviewed me and then says, this was before the race, right? Yes. And then I think it says, shall we say good luck, Max? I said, no. I said, can we say we love you, Max?

29:35And I said, good luck means, you know, you focus on the performance, right? you are saying good luck to do the best but no we love you doesn't matter what you do our love is always there for you yeah so that that's an example and in your everyday life you know i think we can have many moments of this right like when they want to do something don't do it or whatever it is oh it's okay go do it you know we've got you we've got you don't worry try it we've got you but mom i can't don't worry if you can't you try again success means try again right try we'll be here

30:10Rachel Lim: don't worry yeah what do you think is the difference between a kid who grows up under the we've got you language like you versus a kid who grows up under the you've got it language depends on the kids but mostly most of the kids will feel under pressure and they're afraid to tell you something when something goes wrong they won't share with you because they don't want to disappoint you they don't want to disappoint you they might they are afraid that when you get disappointed the connection will not be so strong or they will break the connection So inevitably, the child will feel very afraid and they will stop sharing.

30:45Sometimes they start to lie even. And sometimes you have cases where children change their grades or whatever. Why? Because they are afraid to disappoint you. They know what you want. When you say you've got this means there's expectations that you'll get it. But when you say we've got you, there's no expectations. Whatever the outcome is, we're here. So there's a huge difference, right? You know, at this stage, I would say that, you know, for me even, you know, I mean, I'm not always like that. Please don't think that, you know, you go along and you realize that actually, you know, you also have expectations.

31:28You do. Whether you want to admit it or not, you do. Because that's the same expectations we were given. So we very often parent what we were given and what we know.

31:38Rachel Lim: Yes. So you would also feel disappointed. But what you do is, you know, you don't show. Don't outwardly show your disappointment. Because your disappointment with your training can go too. If you truly start to see them for who they are, you will stop being disappointed. Because you don't have any expectations. because when we have expectations means we are trying to make them who we think they should be. But shouldn't they be who they are and we should accept them for who they are rather than who we want them to be? I think that's the difference for me. I've learned it for myself. So what happens when, can you walk us through an incident where you're disappointed yourself that something didn't happen as perhaps what you'd expected?

32:27Rachel Lim: What do you say to yourself and what do you say to your boy? Okay, for example, Max had a competition when he was younger days, right? And I don't expect him to win, right? In the beginning. In the beginning, I'm a very like, you know, like all moms, you want to kanchong and you want to participate, you know? And you're really excited and then when he doesn't win, you're very disappointed. And then I said, but why do I want him to win? Is it for him or is it for me? you know because if it's for him then it's more important how he would feel if he didn't win and how to encourage him to move on from his doesn't win motivate him to do more and go onto the road on the process and to focus on the process so i realized that actually me i want him to win for my glory for me to say oh my son won right it's a good feeling you know a little bit of ego and then I said, okay, no, then we have to, I work on myself to take away the ego from me, to really see that the child I want them to become.

33:36I want them to become them, not become who I want them to be.

33:39Rachel Lim: Yeah. And so what happens when he came back and he didn't win? What would you say to him? I said, how do you feel? Try again. I think the most important thing is how he feels because even for him, sometimes he wins and he tells me, mom, but I don't feel good about this win. It wasn't, I didn't feel like I earned it. I felt like it was more luck. So he also have feelings about his winnings. Will there be a time where maybe We've Got You, the support from We've Got You becomes too much and becomes overprotection or you think, no, there will be no such. Never. Never. So let's not confuse We've Got You as a safety net versus discipline.

34:18You always set boundaries for your children. Okay? Because children at certain age will test you. It's their job. It's your job to set the boundaries. But you still caught them. It doesn't matter. I understand how you feel. Okay, I'll give you a life example, okay? So before three, you need to tell a child no. They need to know what no means. Yes. Okay, so you have every child, maybe most children would have one time throwing a tantrum. They go to the shop, Mom, I want to buy this, I want to buy this. No, you can't have it. They throw a tantrum. Okay, what do you do? right? Take them home. I would take them home.

34:56Sit them down. They would cry. They would roll on the floor. I said, okay, we're rolling on the floor. I'm walking away. The police come get you. You can explain. I'm not interested. You don't have an audience. You can get other people but you won't get my attention. You don't talk to them because they won't be listening to any reason. They have no chance for a reason.

35:11Rachel Lim: Okay, so you give them, like you giving me now, the tissue. It says, you want a tissue? You want to cry? Okay, let them cry. Sit down and just listen. Okay, whatever. Okay, maybe they are tired. He says, okay, you want some water? You want a hot towel? Yeah. So they think, oh my God, mum is subterning up. Can I? No. Still no. Still hold your boundary. No, no, no. Then he says, okay, why do you need to buy this? Tell me. And they will tell you, yeah, but I have this, but it's not the same as that, blah, blah, blah. He says, okay, but no. Not convincing, you know. So I think there's several purposes in this, right?

35:50First of all, you show them, like, yes, I'm still concerned about you. But throwing tantrum is not the way to behave. You want, you talk to me. You negotiate with me. You encourage them to negotiate. But no, sometimes you still get no. But in your everyday behaviour, every time they negotiate with you, every three times, you let them in one time. You let them win one time. Because then they feel like there's a purpose to talk to you. Yes, there's a purpose to negotiate. Yes, when you feel it's really reasonable and you can give in, he says, okay, this one is okay. I'll give in. So it also trains their life skills.

36:27Rachel Lim: Because this is what it is in real life. Yes, exactly. It's just like BJ. You know, he gets up late. He wants to go to school. He's supposed to walk to school because it's only for eight minutes. And he's like, he's been delayed, darling. And he says, mom, I'm going to be late. Can you send me to school? No. No. Just no. Because you had time to do all of this. Why do you not have time to go to school on time? You face the consequences. Exactly. So they have to learn to face the consequence. And also it all ties back to thinking, right? They have to think, they have to manage. They have to learn to do things themselves.

36:56But if you are always being ferried everywhere, your decisions are always made for you, you have never given the opportunity to actually even question yourself what you really like or what you don't like, then how do you know? How do you know? Right? A lot of children say they don't know because they're never faced. They never have to face these questions on their own. They never have to answer them themselves. Everything is answered for them. From the morning they wake up, to what they eat, to whatever. We could give more opportunities to young children to do a lot more things by themselves. Because they can.

37:32And that builds confidence for them. When they can do something, they go, Wow, I'm proud of myself. I can do it. you know

37:42Rachel Lim: and then helps them to build confidence to do more things you know what do you think Huikeng is one belief that parents tend to hold when it comes to raising kids that they don't really question that might be and can be harmful or might not serve them well I mean from my observations they don't ask the children a lot about what their likes are what their dislikes they don't really listen to the child because from what I know, a lot of parents like to organise a lot of things for their children without really the child having a real interest in them. So like for example, ballet class, swimming class, or like art class or whatever class.

38:28Maybe in the beginning when they don't have, you can have give them a lot of exposure. But afterwards, when the child have no interest or clearly have no interest, some parents go on to insist. I think that's, I don't know actually, but I think if I have conversations with people, I realise that the child, the children here are not treated with the same amount of respect and given the same opportunities to express their opinion as the children in my family.

38:59Rachel Lim: How can we start or what are the little things that we can do to also move in that direction? I think we need to ask ourselves first, right? you want the best for your child. You said that. We said that. But is the best for your child for you or for your child? I mean, we were told, be a good child, get good grades, you get a good job, you have a good life. Okay? So now, we have this whole generation of people who get good grades, get a good job, have a good life. And then, they expect a lot from society because you told me, as long as I'm good, I can expect. That's your message for me. How come I'm not getting all of this?

39:39They get frustrated, right? They feel entitled. Whereas we were brought up, go and get what you want. You need to earn for what you want. You need to work. You need to do this. I think we don't give enough responsibilities to our children these days. They don't have responsibilities. They're not responsible for their own welfare. They don't need to cook. They don't need to make the bed. They don't need to do... I don't know how many children actually is responsible for their own... something. Something, whether it's going to school, whether it's making a meal, whether anything. My children all have responsibilities.

40:13From as young as? Yes, even like Jay, from as young as they know. They always have to do something. It is one thing you can hold them responsible for.

40:21Rachel Lim: So what happens to the kid who grows up with no responsibility? They don't know how to take responsibilities? They have never been taught, they have never been given responsibilities. How do you do something well when you've never done it before? Can you? Nobody can. What is the angle you have in mind when you raise your boys that allow you to also look back and know that these are important qualities that you want them to have. Okay, in German, there's a word we use which I can't translate. It's called Lebensstich, which means fit for life. So I don't have ambitions. I just want them to be fit for life.

40:58Fit for life means adaptable, flexible. And I want them, I mean, I try to show them how kindness looks like. What considerations do for people? And we start it in the family. Gratitude. All the things that we embrace and we would like them to have, also to embrace the same qualities, we do it ourselves first. And then they can learn from us how to do it. Because monkey see, monkey do. Except that humans do it much better than monkeys with monkey see, monkey do. And children don't just do what you say. they do what you do exactly so it's more important if you ask me anything I came to a stage where anything I wanted to instill in my children I made sure that I did it myself first because that's where they are looking

41:52Rachel Lim: yeah yeah Wiking thank you so much for this first episode of the conversation I feel like we have so much more to talk about and to really go through and you know I hope this also gives the viewers the audience a much better understanding about you, your boys, how you've raised them and especially with Valentin as well. Just also want to give a shout out to all of you listening. Thank you so much. And I think what we want to do in this series is to also welcome questions, specific questions that you have for Huyking on the parenting journey or also perhaps, you know, some advice or thoughts on what you are going through personally as well.

42:29Rachel Lim: So feel free to please leave a comment or write in to us. Let us know. You can find all the details below. but thank you so much Huy Kang for doing this it's been so helpful I think even for me some of the things you've shared with me before but it always is such a good reminder and I find myself like taking away new things every time I speak with you Oh thank you Rachel you're so kind No thank you so much and we will see you next month for the next episode

43:04Thank you.