In short
Fast Money discusses a make-or-break week for markets driven by big-tech earnings next week (Microsoft, Meta, Apple, Amazon), rising odds of Fed tightening amid oil-driven inflation risks, and sector rotation beyond “MAG-7.” It also covers Intel’s post-earnings reversal, SpaceX valuation concerns after its IPO, Paramount delaying its Warner Bros. Discovery merger, and UPS/American Express/real-estate and transport themes.
Guests (backgrounds)
Courtney Garcia (Bono and Eisen; market strategist/analyst), Mike Coe (Bono and Eisen; analyst), Katarina Simonetti (Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management executive director), plus Mackenzie Sigalos (Morgan Stanley coverage; Apple segment). Eamon Javers and Julia Borsten are CNBC reporters; Jim Bianco is Bianco Research forecaster.
Key claims
CapEx is the main earnings risk; investors worry about AI monetization timing and return on invested capital. Apple’s “lower CapEx” and margin safety may help despite high valuation. FedWatch shows unusual 38% hike odds; energy could keep neutral rates rising. SpaceX is “fully valued” even with an “Elon premium.”
Notable examples
Alphabet +101% CapEx YoY; Tesla +140% CapEx YoY; Alphabet issued ~$40B new equity; Apple CEO Tim Cook’s final earnings; Paramount ticking fee ~$7M/day after Sept 30; Intel revenue best in ~15 years but stock -8% on day; HSBC hold on SpaceX with $1.15 target; UPS options imply ~7% move.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOBig Tech Earnings Preview
0:00 to 0:22
Discussion on upcoming earnings from major tech companies and market implications.
“Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand.”
Big Tech Earnings Preview
1:48 to 3:32
Discussion on upcoming earnings from major tech companies and market implications.
“On the desk tonight, we have Courtney Garcia, Bono and Eisen, Mike Coe, and Katarina Simonetti, executive director of Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management.”
CapEx Concerns in Tech
3:32 to 4:35
Experts analyze the implications of increased capital expenditures in tech firms.
“Katarina, are you sure on those concerns?”
Comparing Tech Giants
4:35 to 6:23
In-depth comparison of spending and profitability among major tech companies.
“A lot of people talking about CapEx might go.”
Apple's Earnings Expectations
6:23 to 11:52
A look at what to expect from Apple's upcoming earnings report and market impact.
“Mike did a great job kind of juxtaposing some of the different cohorts.”
Oil Market Developments
11:52 to 14:00
Discussion of oil market fluctuations and geopolitical events affecting prices.
“Huge earnings week coming up next week for the MAG-7.”
Oil Market Insights
14:00 to 14:58
Discussion on oil market trends and options trading influencing prices.
“Seems like maybe he might be, but really not clear where that one stands right now.”
Paramount and Warner Brothers Merger Delay
14:59 to 16:38
Analysis of Paramount's merger delay with Warner Brothers and its implications.
“Paramount Skydance down over three percent late in the day after agreeing to delay its planned merger with Warner Brothers Discovery.”
Expert Reactions to Merger Costs
16:39 to 17:54
Hosts discuss the financial implications and expert opinions on the merger delay.
“We're looking at Paramount's guidance shares pulling back about 3%.”
Upcoming Intel Earnings Discussion
17:55 to 18:18
Preview of upcoming Intel earnings and recent stock performance.
“Intel giving up its post-earnings gains.”
Show all 31 chapters
Upcoming Intel Earnings Discussion
18:19 to 18:44
Preview of upcoming Intel earnings and recent stock performance.
“Regarding that seat on the committee, we're promoting...”
Qualcomm Price Increases and Inflation
19:53 to 21:24
Discussion on Qualcomm's price warning and its implications for inflation.
“Shares of Qualcomm dropping over 2 % today.”
Intel Stock Analysis After Earnings
21:25 to 22:56
Analysis of Intel's stock drop following a strong earnings report.
“Also, we get PCE next week after CPI previously a couple of weeks ago.”
Investing Perspectives on Tech Stocks
22:57 to 23:57
Discussion on the market dynamics and investor sentiment in the tech sector.
“Katarina, coming over to you, your thoughts about chips in general.”
Preview of Upcoming Topics
23:58 to 24:33
Introduction to upcoming segments on SpaceX and economic risks.
“SpaceX shares hitting more turbulence after a cautious analyst call.”
Preview of Upcoming Topics
24:34 to 24:59
Introduction to upcoming segments on SpaceX and economic risks.
SpaceX Valuation and Market Analysis
25:10 to 28:00
Discussion on SpaceX valuation, analyst ratings, and investor sentiment.
“Soccer teaches us teamwork, leadership, geometry, art, physics, and a lifetime of lessons we can take with us long after we leave the field.”
Analyzing Elon Musk's Companies
28:00 to 29:09
Discussing Elon Musk's companies and their valuation challenges.
“But Adam Jonas from Morgan Stanley, somebody who, you know, I think has a really good view on Elon Musk companies in general.”
Earnings and Fed Meeting Preview
29:09 to 29:31
Previewing upcoming earnings and the Federal Reserve meeting.
“It's a pivotal Fed meeting looming as investors look for clues on the road ahead for interest rates.”
Market Overview: Stocks Performance
29:31 to 30:25
Reviewing the mixed performance of major stocks and market reactions.
“The Nasdaq down, losing over a half a percent.”
Rising New Home Sales and Mortgage Rates
30:25 to 31:08
Discussing the rise in new home sales and potential mortgage rate impacts.
“Kind of important to note, mortgage rates pretty much the same as they were last year.”
Fed Interest Rate Forecast
31:08 to 32:44
Forecasting potential Fed interest rate decisions amidst economic indicators.
“It's not just earnings on our radar next week.”
Inflation and Bond Market Confidence
32:44 to 35:39
Exploring the relationship between inflation, bond market confidence, and Fed actions.
“And I had to check this a couple of times since 1969.”
Fed's Decision-Making Dynamics
35:39 to 36:49
Discussing the Fed's decision-making process and pressures it faces.
“But if they want to think it's transitory, you're right.”
Market Reactions to Fed Policies
36:49 to 38:14
Examining how market participants react to the Fed's policies and indicators.
“We were talking a little bit earlier about the two year kind of being an indicator of what the Fed may or may not do.”
UPS Earnings Preview
38:14 to 38:31
Preparing for UPS's upcoming earnings report and market expectations.
“But something to continue to watch later this year.”
Railroad Stocks and Transportation Sector Outlook
39:59 to 42:00
Analyzing the performance of railroad stocks and the transportation sector.
“Railroad stocks chugging into new records and posting a fifth straight week of gains.”
Market Momentum and Valuation Concerns
42:00 to 43:06
Learn about the current market trends and valuation concerns in the transport sector.
“I'm going to do one more shameless plug, Mike.”
Analysis of American Express Earnings
43:06 to 44:10
Discover the implications of American Express's mixed earnings results on consumer spending.
“American Express falling 4 % today after kind of mixed Q2 earnings.”
Consumer Confidence and Spending Risks
44:10 to 45:28
Explore the relationship between consumer confidence and spending behaviors in the current economy.
“I think it's all about the consumer confidence.”
Final Trade Insights and Recommendations
45:28 to 46:39
Get insights on potential investment opportunities and final trades from the panel.
“I prefer a more modest or conservative type of approach.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:02Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. It starts with our approach. Every Mazda comes standard with proactive safety features. So you're more aware of what's around you, more focused on the road ahead, and ready before problems ever start. Mazda. More of what matters most to you. Go to mazdausa.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse or promote any product. The board recommends approving... Regarding that seat on the committee, we're promoting... To boost quarterly earnings... Every day, shareholders meet to discuss important matters about the companies you invest in.
0:39Now you can easily make your voice heard. Vanguard Investor Choice gives you a say in the companies you invest in. With just a few taps, you can set your proxy voting preference for your index funds. Visit vanguard.com slash investorchoice to learn more. Vanguard Investors own shares of our index funds, which own shares of the companies they invest in. Available for Vanguard Index funds that participate in Investor Choice, Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor. Live from the Nasdaq Market Sight, right here in the heart of Times Square, this is Fast Money. Here's what's on tap tonight. Big tech on deck.
1:09Some$12 trillion worth of companies reporting their earnings next week. What to expect from these results after the volatility that we've already seen this week. And odds of a rate hike steadily rising as oil prices trade near more than one month highs. What the Fed could signal about the future policy next week and how it could impact your money. Plus, Intel's start post-earnings reversal, what Amex results say about the high-end consumer. And is there any hope that SpaceX shares could lift off the latest read on the recent IPO? And why one analyst says the Elon Musk innovation premium, that's already priced in.
1:44I am Frank Holland in for Melissa Lee coming to you live from Studio B right here at the NASDAQ. On the desk tonight, we have Courtney Garcia, Bono and Eisen, Mike Coe, and Katarina Simonetti, executive director of Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management. And we start with what could be a make or break week for the markets. Big tech names like Microsoft, Meta, Apple and Amazon, all of them set to report their earnings next week. We're showing it right there. Apple seeing some solid gains today ahead of that report closing just a half a percent away from a record high. Investors will be keyed in for indications of how much CapEx these companies are planning for the year ahead.
2:18After all, news that Alphabet expects to spend more than originally forecast, it really sent those shares plunging yesterday. So next week's results kind of ease investor concerns where they cause the recent sell-off to gather even more steam. Courtney, I'm going to start with you right here. What do you think? We've got some big names coming up, and I want to point this out. Microsoft actually reports on the day of the Fed meeting, and as we know, interest rates all of a sudden, that's a big part of the big tech story. Correct. Yeah, and I think CapEx, that's really what investors are worried about right now.
2:47Because you're seeing if Alphabet is any sort of indication, they increase their CapEx year-over-year 101%. And then you saw Tesla come out, and they increase it by over 140 % year-over-year. And you're just seeing this huge race toward artificial intelligence. And no one really knows when that's going to become profitable for these companies, even though their core businesses are profitable. And Alphabet actually had a negative cash flow. So I think you're really just starting to be concerned about this. And I think if it's any indication, if that continues for these companies next week, they probably are going to get hit.
3:18And that's where Apple may be interesting because they're one of the few who hasn't had this huge CapEx spending that a lot of their competitors have. So absolutely something to watch this week. But it is a concern, especially because they all said that they are going to substantially increase their CapEx in 2027. And what that means, we don't know yet. Katarina, are you sure on those concerns? I mean, we're talking about CapEx, but I also want to go back to Alphabet because we mentioned it. Huge growth in their cloud business. And also, I just want to talk about earnings for a second. LSE came out with the numbers.
3:45Earnings for the quarter are going to be 38 percent higher. But if you look at tech, up about 66, 67 percent. Communication services, up about 112 percent. We're talking about earnings growth. So should we be focused on the CapEx or these other factors that can move the market? Well, I think most importantly, investors are starting to really care about CapEx. And we went from the momentum where, like, we were talking about picks and shovels and building up infrastructure. And now it seems that the focus has shifted to monetization. What is demand for your services? What is the competition? Can older type of AI can be used because it's cheaper or this newest top edge technology has a demand and you will be able to place it?
4:28But most importantly, at what point all these investments that they're making in their businesses is going to turn into earnings? And that is top of mind for investors. Yeah. A lot of people talking about CapEx might go. A lot of people talking about this other phrase, return on invested capital. That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I would probably just draw a little bit of a distinction between companies like Tesla and companies like Alphabet. You know, Courtney was talking about the fact that some of the CapEx coming out of Tesla was a little higher than expected. But in terms of orders of scale, it's really quite small compared to some of the other names we're talking about.
5:03We're really looking at a little over$5 billion in CapEx, and they ended up with about a negative billion for the quarter in free cash flow. In the case of something like Alphabet, number one, I think they actually have a way to monetize all of this. I think that is a positive. The second thing is that a lot of those companies, like the Alphabet's of the world, Microsoft, Amazon, when they spend big, if it turns out meta, I should also add, if these companies spend really big and it turns out that they're not monetizing as effectively they are very good organic free cash flow generators on their own so you know i think alphabet and amazon and meta all have a way to monetize this and the worst thing that could potentially happen is that they overspend a little bit it's companies like oracle and tesla where it's a little bit harder to see how it's going to work in oracle's case obviously the the news between open and microsoft this week was a little bit troubling because it makes you wonder where those dollars are going to come from that they have contracted with OpenAI.
6:01You know, Bono, when Mike's saying, you know, it'd be bad if they overspent a little bit, but I think there's so many concerns about that return on invested capital, all the way going back to when Alex Karp was right here on CNBC, actually here at the NASDAQ on Squawk Box, just talking about a lot of companies that are not only concerned about their return on capital, but they're concerned about losing their IP, which may just kind of lead to a longer-term disruption in this whole AI trade. Yes, I mean, that's a great point. Mike did a great job kind of juxtaposing some of the different cohorts.
6:28One name that was left off was Microsoft, so I'll call attention there. I think there's two drivers there. One, you know, if Alphabet is any indication, you would expect there to be robust cloud revenue growth there, right? So that's one vertical that they have. And then you mentioned IP and kind of connectivity within the enterprise cohort. And I think Microsoft is really there. The third thing that I'll mention is just the price action leading into an earnings print and quarterly results. So Microsoft has been a laggard. A lot of us has mentioned it. Bellwether, nonetheless. And I think that perhaps the price action leading into the quarter may actually serve them well.
7:09I mean, it's tough to kind of call it. I think you can't ignore Alphabet's results. Clearly, CapEx is going to continue to accelerate. And you're in a situation now where you're in more or less of an arms race where you can't afford to fall behind. I would say Apple has kind of bucked that trend, but that is not a hyperscaler. It's a MedSupps 7 company, but its business model is strategically very different than the rest of the groups in the name. All right. Thanks, Bono. I just want to come back to you and let you respond. One other factor in Alphabet, I don't know if you mentioned it here on a previous show, but they also issued about$40 billion in new equity.
7:46So that's certainly another factor when it comes to the stock. But I want to go back to Microsoft as well. Reports on the day of the Fed decision, that could also be a factor. But what about Bono's point about Microsoft that maybe it's a favorable entry point into the print? Yeah. And I do think you want to look at it. I don't think this trade is over. I just also don't know if this is going to outperform the way it has been, because you're seeing this cash flow is moving from the hyperscalers into the chip makers. And I also think you're seeing things like your mid caps and your small caps. Those forward earnings are also reaching all-time highs.
8:16There's so many areas of the market that you want to take a look at. So, yes, I do think these can be entry opportunities when these pull back, because this trade isn't over. But I don't think you want to ignore the rest of the market, because this broadening that has happened, I think, is going to continue. And today is a really good example of that, where you're seeing the equal weight S &P is outperforming the S &P 500. So even though we talk about these exciting hyperscalers and the more sexy names, there's so many other ones that are doing really well right now. And I don't want to ignore that either.
8:43Yeah, broad-end trade has been kind of outperforming the market cap weight of S &P for quite a bit. But I want to turn back to Apple for a minute. For more on what we can expect when Apple reports on Thursday, I want to bring in our Mackenzie Cigalos. Mac. So, Frank, it is a hugely symbolic quarter for Apple. Tim Cook's final earnings report as CEO after 15 years at the helm. But Wall Street, its focus is really going into this print on whether Apple can use price increases to lift earnings even as unit growth slows. Morgan Stanley expects a modest June quarter beat, but sees more upside in September as higher prices across devices and services offset slightly lower unit sales.
9:20The bank's revenue and EPS forecasts for next year are 8 % above consensus, and it raised its price target to$364, about 9 % above where shares trade now. Apple may also be making those increases easier to absorb. A new upgrade program reportedly launches two days before earnings, letting customers spread a higher sticker price across the monthly payment. The tradeoff, of course, is margin pressure. Component costs are rising quickly, and Morgan Stanley estimates that Apple may need to charge$200 more for the iPhone 18 Pro just to preserve a 40 % gross margin. But China again expected to be a bright spot, with demand improving and July iPhone sell-through back to double-digit growth.
10:01Baird also raising its price target, saying it expects iPhone revenue up 22 % this quarter. But at roughly 34 times forward earnings, there is little room for disappointment as Cook rounds out his tenure as CEO. Frank. All right, Mac, thank you very much. our Mackenzie Segalos, the very latest on Apple. Bono, I want to come over to you. What is your take on this Apple report coming up next week? Even the price action that we've seen in the other large technology names, the fact that Apple hasn't invested so heavily in CapEx, I think, sets up favorably. I can't argue against evaluation. 35, 36 times forward is tough.
10:38But if you look at that last quarter, we're talking about 16, 17 percent top-line growth. And I believe it was 20 to 22 percent expected on the bottom line. The argument against Apple is that it's been a bond like compounder for so long and hasn't had that growth. So as long as it can continue to do that and can continue to expand margins as it's done last quarter, I think there is still an argument to be made that it is viewed as having a higher margin of safety in an AI related or tech related sell off. Katarina, coming over to you, Apple trading about 34, 36 times forward earnings, as Bono mentioned.
11:11mentioned, by the way, the market's trading at about 20 times forward earnings. So it seems like that's a pretty high bar for this earnings report. Well, the question is, as Courtney said, it's not where the valuation is currently. Can it actually continue to grow at the level it has been and setting realistic expectations? Because over the last couple of years, what we're seeing is overcrowding in one security, overcrowding in one space. And while we still like our hyperscalers and we like the tech, you know, we're by no means are saying that we need to abandon the sector. How much of it is appropriate for a well-balanced portfolio, portfolio that is not only managed for growth, but also for risk?
11:52All right. Huge earnings week coming up next week for the MAG-7. UPS as well. By the way, I'll be talking to the UPS CEO next week as well. All right. Now turning to the oil market, WTI crude retreating 3 percent. This total below 90 bucks a barrel, the latest move amid reports that Pakistan is looking to restart talks between the U.S. and Iran. Our Eamon Javers joins us with the very latest on this story. Eamon. Yeah, Frank, and the big question here is, will we see more negotiations or will we see more intensified military action over the weekend? We just heard from the president in the Oval Office the past hour.
12:23He was asked about comments he made to Axios saying he's considering a massive attack on Iran that would be like nothing they've seen before, a military escalation. And his answer, you know, he he certainly doesn't deny it. He says he's ready to go, but doesn't say what exactly he's decided. Here's what he said. We are talking to them right now. Look, there are two ways I consider that the smarter way, but the other is probably the easier way doing what we're doing. And we can take that to a much higher level if you want to. You know, we're prepared to do that. As you know, we're locked and loaded.
12:58We're locked and loaded and ready to go. So, Frank, you hear the president there saying that the United States is locked and loaded, no indication of what he's decided yet. So we'll watch that over the next 48 hours. The other big question on a lot of investors' mind is the Saudi nuclear deal. Remember, the president, his administration signed off on the Saudi nuclear deal earlier in the week, signing an agreement with the Saudis to allow civilian nuclear power in that country, not military. And then we saw the president the next day come out and say, well, actually, no, there's some conditions on this deal.
13:31The Saudis have to sign off on the Abraham Accords and recognize the nation of Israel in order for this deal to go through. The problem was the deal had already gone through. It had already been signed. And there's really not a way, as far as we can tell, for the president to claw that deal back unless Congress is to override him. So the president trying to put some conditions retroactively on the deal. He was asked about that in the Oval Office today. I, you know, I reread the transcript of his answers. It's not clear whether he's withdrawing that condition or not. Seems like maybe he might be, but really not clear where that one stands right now.
14:04Yeah, a lot of questions when it comes to the straighter four moves in just that entire area. Our Aemon Javers, thank you very much for that report. Mike Coe, I want to come over to you. Yeah, it's interesting on the back of that. Obviously, we did see oil sell off a little bit. If we take a look at the options markets, you know, you've got WTI up. I think maybe Brent is probably the better analog for what's going on. And the most active contracts there traded about 20 % above average put volume. It was the SEP 85 and 82 strike puts that were trading in Brent. Some people are betting that there could be further downside.
14:38The problem with these negotiations, though, seems like there's multiple factions there. And you can maybe agree with one or two of them and still have another three that you have to contend with. So I'm going to wait and see before I really start pressing shorts on crude here. Yeah, looking at Brent crude right now down about two and a third percent. All right. Now to a developing story. Paramount Skydance down over three percent late in the day after agreeing to delay its planned merger with Warner Brothers Discovery. Our Julia Borsten joins us now with the details. Julia. That's right, Frank.
15:10Big news here. Paramount has agreed to delay the Warner Brothers merger until June 1st, 2027, unless a judge issues a ruling before then. This means that the ticking fee that Paramount agreed to pay to Warner Brothers shareholders if the deal closing is delayed beyond September 30th is likely to go into effect. Now, Paramount has agreed to pay the equivalent of about$7 million a day starting after September 30th, which means by June, end of June, Paramount could be paying an additional$1.7 billion for Warner Brothers' discovery. Now, despite that additional payment, Paramount calls this clarity a win.
15:48Paramount saying in a statement, quote, Today's agreement is a significant win because the result is exactly what we have sought from the outset, a direct path to a trial based on the evidence. This is the fastest and clearest way to prove that this transaction is good for competition. Now, New York Attorney General Letitia James also calls this a win, saying, quote, Halting this merger while our case proceeds is a critical victory in our efforts to uphold the law and protect the film and television industries. Paramount is paying over$110 billion for Warner Brothers Discovery, including debt, before any ticking fees.
16:25If the deal falls apart, Paramount is committed to paying a$7 billion breakup fee. And remember, it paid a$3 billion breakup fee to Netflix. So, Frank, this is one to watch as this trial progresses. Yeah, certainly want to watch. We're looking at Paramount's guidance shares pulling back about 3%. Julia, thank you very much. Bono, I want to come over to you. Your take on the idea of this delay and kind of an increased cost to acquire Warner Brothers if the deal does go through. I think considering the debt that the new entity would have, I yes, I can understand that getting a clear path to a resolution going through the proper legal channels is considered a win on its front.
17:04But I think if I'm purely focused on the quantitative metrics, essentially paying, what is it, 15 to 20 percent of what the breakup would be breakup fee would be as a ticking fee. I don't know how I can see that as a marginal positive. All right, Courtney, your take on this. Obviously, this asset, Warner Brothers Discovery, Netflix wanted it. Then Paramount, Skydance basically fought them for it tooth and nail. Now they're on the path to having it, but it just could be more expensive. Yeah, I mean, I think looking at these kind of fees and the fact that it is stalling, I don't think this is something that I'd be jumping into from a stock perspective.
17:36I don't think this is going to create some sort of catalyst of a reason to be in there. So I think it's something to follow, absolutely, because you're right. This is like a jewel that everybody wanted and was bidding over. But with these kind of fees, I would hang tight here and watch this. Yeah, by the way, since Paramount Scott Dance reached the deal to get Warner Brothers, those shares are down more than 25 percent. All right, coming up, a semi-stumble. Intel giving up its post-earnings gains. What changed after last night's results to send those shares sharply lower, plus a hard landing for SpaceX with the stock closing at fresh lows?
18:05We're going to dig into one bold, variable Wall Street call that any good news might already be priced into this one. Don't go anywhere. Fast Money's back in just two.
18:17You're watching Fast Money here on CNBC. We'll be right back. The board recommends approving. Regarding that seat on the committee, we're promoting... ...to boost quarterly earnings... Every day, shareholders meet to discuss important matters about the companies you invest in. Now you can easily make your voice heard. Vanguard Investor Choice gives you a say in the companies you invest in. With just a few taps, you can set your proxy voting preference for your index funds. Visit vanguard.com slash investorchoice to learn more. Vanguard Investors own shares of our index funds, which own shares of the companies they invest in.
18:50Available for Vanguard Index funds that participate in Investor Choice, Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor. How do you turn your strategy into action and action into impact? Bold leaders do it through transformative strategy and transactions. Ones that work in practice, not just on paper. At EY Parthenon, we use an investor mindset to help you create value. How? By combining deep sector experience with AI-powered technology so you can reimagine your business for tomorrow while building it today. Shape your future with EY Parthenon. Learn more today. It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set earning cash back on what you buy every day.
19:32And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com credit card. And welcome back to Fast Money. Shares of Qualcomm dropping over 2 % today. The company reportedly warning customers that prices could rise by double digits due to higher input costs. The change will apply to products shipped after September the 1st, and that's according to the FT. Qualcomm reports earnings on Wednesday after the bell.
20:08Shares are down 35 % from their 52-week high. Corp. What I find interesting about this is you've seen the same thing from Apple with their memory chips, where this actually could be one of the causes of inflation. So we're talking a lot about oil prices and that that may be spiking inflation. You bring up that the Fed is meeting next week. So if we see oil spiking, you also see AI inflation. This could be a reason why the Fed either can't lower rates or may have to raise rates in the future. That's why you're seeing those expectations of Fed rate hikes actually rising here. I don't think they're actually going to rise this week, but I do think all of these inputs, the more you hear this, the more it makes the Fed's job a little more difficult.
20:43Mike, over to you. Yeah, I mean, as far as Fed rate hikes are concerned, I think if anybody is looking for a barometer on whether that's likely or not, probably the best indicator you're going to get is the same one that we've had for the last quarter of a century now, which is the two-year Treasury. So the two-year Treasury has been ticking up consistently since the strikes in the Middle East. And I think the chances of any kind of a rate cut this year are essentially nil. And the chances of a rate hike at this point are actually quite good. So, you know, I wouldn't hold out any hope that the meeting is going to deliver any good news for investors on that front necessarily.
21:18Now, of course, a lot of these inflationary pressures are idiosyncratic, though. And so I'm not exactly sure what a Fed rate hike would actually do to resolve them, particularly those inflationary pressures that are driven by higher energy costs. Yeah, absolutely. Also, we get PCE next week after CPI previously a couple of weeks ago. Kevin Wors said it's not mission accomplished. It was at three point five. So we'll have to wait and see what he says this time around. All right. Meantime, a big reversal in shares of Intel today. The stock was up double digits last night after earnings. It actually ended the day down nearly 8 percent, despite posting its best revenue growth in nearly 15 years.
21:52The stock now down five weeks in a row and has lost 35 percent since hitting a record high last month. Bonoan, over to you. In all cases, I think you really need to kind of focus on where the stock is coming from, as opposed to in a particular vacuum. And as you mentioned, the stock has had a tremendous run. There is no argument against the tremendous quarter that they had. With that said, they have, again, committed to reigniting CapEx. And I think that the concerns around BAB still persist. I think that one investor cohort takes this CapEx spending as confidence that they are seeing the customer acquisition, the customer expansion, the TAM, all growing.
22:36On the other hand, it is not immune from the same criticism that the other hyperscalers are facing in terms of overspending capex. And they simply don't have the same fortress balance sheet position that those other capex spenders are coming from. So I expect this to come under quite a bit of scrutiny. Katarina, coming over to you, your thoughts about chips in general. I often at least call the hyperscalers, the check writers, these guys are the check cashers, but they've been under some pressure. And it's also is the case of selling the news at some point because the overall news is positive.
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23:12But when you look at the hyperscalers and overall crowding of the tech space, majority of the investors have their tech concentrated in these few names, the seven names, just like the S &P. So they ask to add another tech name, despite of fantastic earnings, despite of the nice projections and the fact that they have all these contracts lined up. It is still a heavy ask because the investors are fascinated and in love with the stocks that brought them such success. But what they need to do and what our message is, is the broadening of the market comes also with broadening of exposure, not only as a global, you know, the global scale, but also within each sector, including technology.
23:57All right. Well, there's a lot more to come right here on Fast Money. Here's what's coming up next. Houston, we have a problem. SpaceX shares hitting more turbulence after a cautious analyst call. Why analysts say that even with an Elon Musk premium, the stock could stay grounded. Plus, an inflation wake-up call. One top forecaster warning Wall Street is underestimating risks to the economy and says the Fed could be running out of time to act. You're watching Fast Money, live from the NASDAQ market side in Times Square. We're back right after this.
24:58for your index funds. Visit vanguard.com slash investorchoice to learn more. Vanguard Investors own shares of our index funds, which own shares of the companies they invest in. Available for Vanguard Index funds that participate in Investor Choice, Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor.
25:14Good morning, students. Soccer teaches us teamwork, leadership, geometry, art, physics, and a lifetime of lessons we can take with us long after we leave the field. That's why Bank of America and U.S. Soccer are committed to helping bring soccer to every school. Soccer is officially in session. Raise your hand to help bring soccer to schools at bofa.com slash soccer at schools. It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set? Earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this, Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year.
25:57Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. And welcome back to Fast Money and our call of the day. HSBC initiating SpaceX with a hold rating and a$1.15 price target. That is seven cents below where the stock closed today. Analysts saying SpaceX shares are fully valued even when taking into account the so-called Elon Musk innovation premium. It sounds better when you say it like that. SpaceX shares dropping almost 3 % today and are trading at half of what they were at their post IPO highs. Mike, I want to come over to you.
26:35You know, first of all, I'd like to know what the Elon premium actually is, because if you take a look at the premium that Tesla has relative to Ford, let's just say for the sake of argument, 1.6 million cars,$1.2 trillion valuation. So you've got a$750 ,000,$800 ,000 enterprise value per vehicle sold for Tesla versus probably$12 ,500 ,000 per Ford. So that's a 60x premium that Tesla enjoys over Ford. Is that Elon? Is that full self-driving? Hard to say, but the premium should be material. In SpaceX's case, it's the play in the space. 97 % of the mass thrown into orbit from the United States is coming from SpaceX.
27:13There isn't really a comp. But if there was one, Rocket Lab or something like that, and you threw 60 times valuation on Rocket Lab, that would get you to about a$2.4 trillion valuation. So I'm not really sure that that that it's undeserving of the premium it enjoys. You know, Mike, you're doing a lot of math really quick, but the price target is 115 stocks at 115 right now. So are you agreeing with the call or not agreeing with the call? I'm not really agreeing with the call. I think if you want to play in this space, pardon the pun, this is really the only way to do it. That's that's the thing.
27:46So if you're interested in Elon, you're interested in participating in space. They put 90 percent of the mass in orbit up there. So it's really the only game in town. All right. Courtney, I want to come over to you. Just by the way, by the way, HSBC with the call of the day. But Adam Jonas from Morgan Stanley, somebody who, you know, I think has a really good view on Elon Musk companies in general. His price target's at 300. He also says at 100 bucks a share, SpaceX would trade at about 16 times Ford P.E. for fiscal year 28, which kind of reframes the way you can look at the company. Yeah, and I think Mike is right here.
28:18I think it has, like, how do you really compare this to anything else? And investors are willing, which we've seen too with Tesla, put a much higher premium on this than the valuations would typically justify. So I think that's where this becomes a little hard to reconcile. And I think the next two big catalysts here are their next earnings report, which I believe is August 4th. And then you're going to get a little later here when some of your early investors do have the opportunity to sell. I think seeing how it trades at those two point of times, I think will give us a little bit more of an indication of where that valuation should lie.
28:47So I think investors who are in here, they're in here for the long run. They're in here because it's Elon Musk's company, because of the innovations. We can look at the valuations all day long. It's just not going to trade on that. And that's what makes it so hard to discuss here from a financial standpoint. And by the way, even Adam Jones, he's kind of agreeing with you as the lockup ends, going to put even more pressure on the stock. At least he believes it could. All right, coming up here on Fast Money, it's not just earnings on deck next week. It's a pivotal Fed meeting looming as investors look for clues on the road ahead for interest rates.
29:15We're going to dive into what's at stake when Fast Money returns. Moment of fast. Catch us anytime on the go. Follow the Fast Money podcast. We're back right after this.
29:31And welcome back to Fast Money. Stocks kind of mixed to end the week. The Dow adding 230 points. The S &P close to the flatline. The Nasdaq down, losing over a half a percent. Tenant Healthcare soaring 17 % for its best day in almost six years. The company beating earnings expectations and raising its full-year guidance, citing outperformance in both its hospital and ambulatory surgery center segments. Uber, however, sinking over 4 % late in the session. The FT reporting that Google's Waymo is exploring an end to its partnership with the rideshare company as tensions deepen between the robo-taxi competitors.
30:05Uber now trading at more than the 52-week low. Meantime, sales of new homes unexpectedly rising in June. The latest data showing sales of 628 ,000, 10 ,000 more than the prior month, and well above estimates that help home builder stocks rally today. We're talking NVR, Pulte Group, Lenar, and Toll Brothers among the big winners. Katerina, come over to you. Kind of important to note, mortgage rates pretty much the same as they were last year. So what do you think? They are, but they are potentially expected to go higher. Again, it all comes back to oil prices, all comes back to the Fed policy. And what you see right now is buyers and sellers are kind of rushing to conclude this real estate deals because if mortgage rates are going to start hiking like we've seen in the past, it is going to make a major difference.
30:52So we're not quite sure what's going to happen there. There is a lot of uncertainty, but we see that action on anticipation driven by the consumer fear. Also, a little bit of timing there. If you have kids and you want to move in by the time school starts, you've got to buy that house right now. All right. It's not just earnings on our radar next week. The Fed delivers this decision on interest rates on Wednesday, the second under Kevin Warrs. The recent rise in oil prices and Treasury yields certain to weigh on the central bank. Let's bring in market forecaster Jim Bianco of Bianco Research. Jim, thank you for joining us.
31:23So what is the forecast here? If I'm looking at the CME FedWatch tool, 62 percent of a pause, 62 percent of a chance of a pause, I should say, 38 percent chance of a hike. I think that that is an extraordinary number, 38 % chance of a hike, because we're three trading days away from the Fed meeting. Normally, before Warsh, that number would either be 0 % to 2 % or 98 % to 100%. And the fact that it is 38 % tells you that there's tremendous uncertainty about what he's going to do. This is the Warsh Fed not offering any forward guidance. There is no leak to a media personality to tell us whether the Fed's going to do this or that.
32:01So we're left guessing as to where the Fed's going to go. Also, I think what you should expect is there probably will be a vote for a rate hike, and it'll get somewhere between, I'll say, four and seven votes. If it gets seven votes, we'll have a rate hike next week. But even if we don't get a rate hike, you might see three, four or five descents for rate hikes. So this is a very different Fed than what we're used to over the last many decades. Right now it's 12 independent voters and they're all going in different directions. All right. So a lot of people in the market, including you, believe that we could see a rate hike coming up in September.
32:39Your question is, is it going to be too late by then? I want to ask too late for exactly what? Now, I'm looking at some of the data here. Initial jobless claims, lowest. And I had to check this a couple of times since 1969. Inflation headline at three and a half percent, but core down to two point six. And then I'm looking at ISM manufacturing today, six months of expansion. Last time that happened was back in 2022. So too late for what to hike? The economy is doing OK. As you mentioned, a 57-year low in initial claims and all of the other data and even the housing data today. There's no worry about a recession.
33:13Now, that may change next week or next month or in two years. But right now, there's no worry about a recession. And we have north of 3 % inflation. What that means is that the neutral Fed funds rate is moving higher. If the Fed sits tight, they're easing. If the price of gasoline is going up and you're going to stimulate the economy so people can afford the price of gasoline, it's going to shoot higher and higher. You need to keep the funds rate near neutral. Neutral is moving up. It should go higher. I would actually posit, and I've been arguing this as a line, an old adage on Wall Street, bond investors can stop panicking when the Fed starts panicking.
33:52Kevin Walsh said inflation is a choice. We'll choose to do something about it. And if you hike rates maybe as early as next week, the long end of the yield curve, bond yields might calm down. If you keep arguing, no, we shouldn't do it or we should wait and wait and wait, it could be like 2022. They waited way too long before they started raising rates. Bond investors lost confidence and rates went soaring at that point. All right. So you're talking about bond investors losing confidence right now, the 10 year of 4.68. Is that the sign that bond investors are losing confidence? As Katerina just mentioned, the potential at least for mortgage rates to go up as well.
34:28Yeah, well, 4.68, the highest it's been in the second term of Trump, if you want to use that metric, was yesterday at 4.71. So we're at a 20-month high in yields. We're not that far in the 30-year, just a handful of basis points away from a 19-year high in yields. So those yields have been creeping higher with the expectations of higher inflation driven by higher gasoline prices because of what's happening. in the Middle East. And there's the hope is that 38 percent is not far from 50. Maybe the Fed will choose to do something about inflation and calm the bond market down. If not, and they want to keep telling us why they don't need to do it, our AI is going to produce productivity miracles and that we don't have to worry about inflation, bond investors might run for the exits and you could see vastly higher interest rates.
35:17All right. So your forecast, Jim, one last forecast. We've got to get out of here. Is there any chance the Fed will see this energy inflation, because that's one of the big stories here as, quote unquote, transitory. I know we don't really say that word anymore, but any chance of that? There is a chance of that, that they could. I think it would be a mistake. You can always raise rates because of energy going up. And if it goes back down, you could cut rates later. There's nothing to stop them from doing that. But if they want to think it's transitory, you're right. They don't have a good track record when it comes to using that word.
35:46And I'd be very careful in trying it again. Yeah, I think everybody some painful memories of the term transitory. Jim Bianco, great to see you. Have a great weekend. Bono, over to you. Well, it's really a question of whether or not this Fed is going to be given the opportunity to establish themselves independently of the prior administration. If they essentially feel pressure from the missteps that Bianco is referring to, then there is going to be this upper pressure and this 36 or 38 percent probability is probably, if we're handicapping it to right now, is probably around accurate. No, the real question is you don't want to slam on the brakes prematurely.
36:31So I'm kind of with consensus in terms of I think there's a higher probability of it happening. It's unlikely to happen next meeting. But I do think that perhaps if they are going to hold true and they are trying to reestablish credibility, I don't think this can get too far from control. All right. Mike, I want to come over to you. Your take on all this. We were talking a little bit earlier about the two year kind of being an indicator of what the Fed may or may not do. Yeah, I mean, it's been the best indicator of what the Fed may or may not do for the last 25 years. And look, if you take up, you know, people often think of rates sort of, you know, moving lockstep.
37:07But actually, my view is that if they act a little more hawkish and we see perhaps a 25 basis point rise, which, by the way, isn't slamming the brakes on, but indicates a willingness to try to make sure that you're preserving a lower rate of inflation, that could actually help suppress rates on the long end. And for a lot of areas of the economy, that could be a good thing. We were talking about homebuilders before, and you don't want to see, you know, the 30 year bond, for example, shooting up towards 6 percent. We're already at almost 5.2. So from my perspective, I think a 25 basis point increase is warranted.
37:42I think it's the right thing to do, and I think it'll probably stabilize the long end. Courtney, agree? I don't know if they really need to be hiking in the near term, because I think a lot of the inflationary pressures, a lot of those are sector specific. And so I think what you need to figure out is, is a rate hike really going to tamp down on that? But these are, in fact, there. I mean, the fact that we're seeing energy prices come up, the fact that we're seeing some of this AI inflation, I think it is something to worry about. So I think there is less, you know, less to no likelihood of cuts this year.
38:08I don't know if hikes are warranted, at least thus far. So I think when they meet next week, we'll probably see them stand pat. But something to continue to watch later this year. That decision coming up on Wednesday. All right, coming up here on Fast Money, UPS earnings out for delivery. What to expect from the shipping stock as it reports on Tuesday and how to tackle the transports right now. Fast Money is back right after this break.
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39:16And I think that DNA runs into the business community that we have here in the United States. The United States is absolutely filled with risk takers. And I think that's probably one of the most important attributes of our culture. It's that entrepreneurial spirit that continues to evolve our country generation after generation. From the earliest days in farming and manufacturing to the scaling of our country from the industrialists And the technology entrepreneurs that continue to turn the world upside down, it's that entrepreneurial spirit that keeps pushing our country forward.
39:58Welcome back to Fast Money. Railroad stocks chugging into new records and posting a fifth straight week of gains. We're talking Union Pacific, Norfolk Southern, and CSX, all up double digits since the start of the month. By the way, record high trucking rates moving more of that volume onto the rails. Katerina, you got a thought about the transports? Well, Frank, it's really interesting because I do have a very strong opinion on transports. I love the sector. I think everybody should have exposure to it. Transports outperformed S &P by 12 percent just over the last couple of months. But when you ask an average investor, what is your exposure to transports?
40:34They're going to say, I don't know, quite frankly, because we're not looking at it this way. And this is a great case for broadening of exposure to these sectors like transports, like consumer discretionary, like industrials and specific areas of industrials. But I think the sector has a lot of potential, and we should look at it more closely as we continue to focus on stock picking. So, by the way, as we look at rails right now, the LTL sector, kind of a subsector in the transport's big outperformance this year, names like XPO, Old Dominion, et cetera. And we have some more earnings transports on tap.
41:06We talked about it just a bit ago. We're talking about UPS. It reports on Tuesday, Mike Coe, what is the options market saying about UPS? Yeah, so right now, the implied move, at least as far as the options markets are concerned, is about a 7 % move, higher or lower, by the end of next week after they report earnings. Now, that's a lot more than it has moved the last two reported quarters, but that's in line with the longer-term earnings-related choppiness that we've been seeing in the name. Calls outpaced puts by about 2 to 1, And that continues a theme that we've been seeing for about the last three trading weeks.
41:40And one of the most active contracts was the August 115 calls. Those we saw, among other big trades, a 400 lot of those being purchased against actually selling the near-dated weekly options. Idea there is people are trying to capitalize on these elevated options premiums, but making longer-term bullish bets in the name. All right. I'm going to do one more shameless plug, Mike. Hope you don't mind. I'm interviewing Carol Tomei, the CEO of UPS, next week on Tuesday after earnings. Bono, I want to come over to you. Yes, I think this rotation or broadening out does continue. I mean, it's hard to argue against the momentum, particularly in the short and intermediate term.
42:16But I will say is I would keep an eye on where these companies are valued, because if you look at transport or even if you look at XLI, any of the old economy, these valuations versus their 10 year median and versus the S &P are starting to get expensive. So if you think that earnings can continue to persist and that growth continues to persist, well, I think this trade really has legs. But when you start looking at that valuation and some safety that was priced in in terms of rotating out of higher rotation, higher valuation parts of the market to lower valuation parts of the market, that particular trade opportunity is no longer there.
42:54Yeah, to your point, UPS trading about 15 times forward earnings, also FedEx trading about 15 times forward earnings. All right, coming up, reading the receipts, the encouraging spending signals, and the American Express results and why the stock is not getting any credit. More Fast coming up in two minutes.
43:16Welcome back to Fast Money. American Express falling 4 % today after kind of mixed Q2 earnings. The credit card company said revenue growth of the year will come in at the high end of its forecast range, but investors were hoping for even stronger sales. The stock's posted six straight days of losses and also not its worst week since February. Courtney. I think some of this, too, has to do with the fact that guidance wasn't raised. And I think people were hoping that you were going to see an improvement there. But some of that also may be just some reinvestment from outperformance in the first quarter.
43:45So I don't know how much of that is justified. But when I look at them, they have a really good read on specifically the affluent customer who has continued to spend. And I think that's one of the biggest read throughs that you saw with American Express, which is we're talking. You're seeing the transports are doing well. Things are transporting across the economy. The consumer is holding up. You saw this with Bank of America spending details as well. So I think all of this leads to likely less of a recessionary risk. And that's, I think, the biggest thing that I see when I look at these earnings numbers.
44:10So, Katerina. I agree. I think it's all about the consumer confidence. And when there are so many risks out in the market, right, like geopolitical risks, interest rate risks, consumers are a little bit more hesitant to spend. And what we need here is this confidence that the market and earnings and like this great economic projections that we're showing actually is something that is going to come to fruition, which we think it would. But when it comes to spending and especially spending on credit, this is where a lot of consumers, you know, put a pause and they would say, maybe I will delay the spending.
44:43And we see that in forward looking projections and without strong forward looking projections, of course, you know, we see the data as, you know, as what they post it. Bonoan. Yeah, I think back to the SaaSpocalypse and the concern about that upper cohort losing their spinning capacity. And I think that if nothing else, this earnings print has told us that that is really unfounded. So I'd probably be looking for an opportunity to start establishing a position. I mean, I'm not going to fight against recent trends or recent type of flows, but I think that they have shown that they are going to continue to be just fine.
45:22I'm OK with them not raising guidance. I'd prefer for particularly as it pertains to facing customer spending. I prefer a more modest or conservative type of approach. Mike. Fifteen times earnings strongest in the space in terms of their base. So I would be a buyer here. All right. American Express, again, kind of mixed stock pulling back. Coming up next, we got your final trade. Stay with us.
45:51time on the go follow the fast money podcast we're back right after this
46:02time for final trade let's go around the horn katarina banks make money in the high interest rate environment financials is my pick uh banking activity is up mna activity is up and higher for longer is here to stay. Bottom line. Yeah, I'm concerned about rates as well, higher for longer, so I wouldn't be chasing XHP, but DHI can compete on volume. Mike. 5 % free cash flow yield, 14 % year-on-year adjusted EPS growth, and less than 19 times earnings United help. Courtney, last word. I think taking a look at small caps here is something you absolutely want to be a part of, especially if this running does in fact continue.
46:37Make sure you have a piece of this. Thanks for watching Fast Money. Mad Money with Jim Cramer starts right now. All opinions expressed by the Fast Money participants are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of CNBC or its parent company or affiliates and may have been previously disseminated by them on television, radio, internet, or another medium. You should not treat any opinion expressed on this podcast as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of an opinion. Such opinions are based upon information the Fast Money participants consider reliable, but neither CNBC nor its affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such.
47:10To view the full Fast Money Disclaimer, please visit cnbc.com forward slash Fast Money Disclaimer. Soccer teaches us lessons we can take with us long after we leave the field. That's why Bank of America and U.S. Soccer are committed to helping bring soccer to every school. Raise your hand to help at bofa.com slash soccer at schools.
From the publisher
A rocky tech earnings season continues next week after names like Alphabet, Intel and Tesla tumble upon Q2 results. The traders discuss whether the AI trade is losing steam, and what to expect from Apple’s earnings next Thursday. But while tech tumbles homebuilders soar as the home sales report shows new home sales climb in June. Then, president of Bianco Research Jim Bianco breaks down the economy’s real inflation concern and why he’s looking towards the AI trade despite its volatility. Plus, the latest out of Iran, HSBC’s initiates SpaceX, and why the railroad trade is picking up steam.
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