Apple Faces An Antitrust Lawsuit… And Crude’s Next Move 3/21/24

21 Mar 2024 · 44 min

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In short

Fast Money Podcast Notes: Episode - Apple Faces An Antitrust Lawsuit… And Crude’s Next Move (3/21/24)

Host: Melissa Lee Panelists: Tim Seymour, Guy Adami, Mike Coe, Julie Beal Key Topics: Apple Antitrust Lawsuit, Crude Oil Market Dynamics, Earnings Reports

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Episode Overview

The episode discusses significant market movements, particularly focusing on Apple as it faces an antitrust lawsuit from the Department of Justice (DOJ). The implications for Apple's market position and its ecosystem are analyzed in detail. The podcast also touches on the performance of crude oil and shares insights on various companies’ earnings, including FedEx and Nike.

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Key Discussions

  1. Apple’s Antitrust Lawsuit
  • Market Reaction:
  • Apple shares dropped over 4%, reducing its market cap by approximately $115 billion.
  • The DOJ, alongside 16 state attorneys general, has filed a civil antitrust lawsuit against Apple, accusing it of maintaining a monopoly in the smartphone market.
  • Allegations:
  • The lawsuit claims Apple:
  • Blocks innovative super apps to prevent competition.
  • Suppresses mobile cloud streaming services.
  • Excludes cross-platform messaging apps.
  • Diminishes functionality of non-Apple smartwatches.
  • Limits third-party digital wallets.
  • Apple’s Response:
  • Apple stated the lawsuit is incorrect in its claims and has vowed to vigorously defend itself. The legal process is expected to be lengthy.
  • Panel Opinions:
  • Discussions highlighted the difference between "dominance" and "monopoly."
  • Some panelists believe that while Apple has significant market share, it does not constitute a monopoly.
  1. Impact on Apple’s Ecosystem
  • Concerns Raised:
  • If the lawsuit is successful, it could impact Apple’s revenue from services, as the ecosystem's value relies on user lock-in.
  • The panel debated whether the ecosystem is inherently harmful or beneficial, comparing it to university systems where a controlled environment is essential for maintaining quality.
  1. Current Market Performance
  • Overall Market Trends:
  • The Dow, S&P 500, and NASDAQ all closed at record highs.
  • The sell-off in Apple was viewed as part of a broader trend where other tech stocks are performing well, leading to discussions about Apple's relative underperformance.
  • Alternatives in the Market:
  • The discussion touched on industrial and financial stocks gaining momentum, indicating a potential shift in investment strategies away from tech.
  1. Crude Oil Market Insights
  • Current Trends:
  • Crude oil prices have been rising, with predictions for continued growth due to seasonal demand.
  • Panelists discussed the implications of tightening markets and potential price increases as refiners prepare for summer.
  • Expert Opinions:
  • Industry analyst Paul Sankey forecasted a strong outlook for companies like Marathon Petroleum based on upcoming earnings and buyback strategies.
  1. Earnings Reports
  • Nike:
  • Reported earnings that missed expectations, leading to a stock decline. The focus was on innovation as a necessary factor for future growth.
  • FedEx:
  • Surprised the market with positive earnings, supported by share buybacks and improved margins.

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Key Takeaways

  • Antitrust Legislation:
  • The implications of the DOJ's lawsuit against Apple could have significant repercussions for its market strategy and overall valuation.
  • Market Dynamics:
  • A potential shift in investments from tech stocks to industrial and energy sectors is underway, driven by recent earnings reports and performance trends.
  • Consumer Trends:
  • Brands like Nike and Lululemon are facing challenges in maintaining growth amidst changing consumer preferences.

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Final Thoughts

The episode provided a detailed examination of current market challenges and opportunities, with a strong focus on Apple's legal issues and its impact on broader market dynamics. Panelists offered varied perspectives on how these developments might influence investor strategies going forward.

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For further details and updates, listeners are encouraged to visit the [Fast Money website](http://fastmoney.cnbc.com).

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Transcript

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0:01Live from the Nasdaq markets and on a day where major markets all set another set of records. This is Fast Money. Here's what's on tap tonight. Bruised Apple shares of the tech giant dropping more than 4%, cutting$115 billion from its market cap just today. The company, the latest target in the DOJ's antitrust crackdown. Could the government suit mean the end of tech dominance in the market? We'll debate that. Plus, Calhoun questions Boeing's board of directors planning a listening tour with major clients in the wake of several recent plane malfunctions. But CEO Dave Calhoun isn't on the guest list.

0:33what it says about his future with the company, and a big night of earnings that could offer some insight into the state of the consumer, trade, and the economy. From FedEx to Lulu, we are digging into the reports to bring you all the trades. I'm Melissa Lee coming to you live from Studio B at the NASDAQ on the desk tonight. Tim Seymour, Guy Adami, Mike Coe, and Julie Beal. Let's start off with that record day on Wall Street. The Dow S &P 500 and NASDAQ all closing at fresh all-time highs. For the second day in a row, the Dow getting just 111 points away from crossing 40 ,000. But one longtime tech bellwether, noticeably not coming along for the ride, shares of Apple dropping more than 4 % after the Department of Justice announced a new antitrust lawsuit against the tech titan, saying that the iPhone maker has a monopoly over the phone market and that it harms consumers, developers, and rival companies.

1:20Let's get straight to Eamon Javers, who's got the details. Eamon. Hey there, Melissa. The Justice Department, along with 16 state and district attorneys general, sued Apple this morning for monopolization or attempted monopolization of smartphone markets. Now, this is a civil antitrust lawsuit filed in the United States District Court for the District of New Jersey, and it alleges that Apple illegally maintains a monopoly over smartphones by selectively imposing contractual restrictions on and withholding critical access points from developers. Here's Attorney General Merrick Garland earlier today.

1:53Apple has maintained monopoly power in the smartphone market, not simply by staying ahead of the competition on the merits, but by violating federal antitrust law. Consumers should not have to pay higher prices because companies break the law. Now, the Department of Justice alleges Apple has broken the law, specifically Section 2 of the Sherman Antitrust Act in five specific ways. First is blocking innovative super apps. DOJ says that's because Apple fears they could grow big enough to threaten Apple itself. Second is suppressing mobile cloud streaming services. DOJ says that's because Apple doesn't want people to get access to high quality apps without having to pay for expensive smartphones.

2:38Three, excluding cross-platform messaging apps. Garland said Apple degraded messaging with Android devices so that Apple users would think Android phones are just worse. Four, diminishing functionality of non-Apple smartwatches. DOJ says users who purchase the Apple Watch face substantial out-of-pocket costs if they don't keep buying iPhones. And five, limiting third-party digital wallets. Apple has prevented third-party apps from offering tap-to-pay functionality, says DOJ. Now, Apple responding to these charges today, saying this lawsuit is wrong on the facts and the law, and we will vigorously defend against it.

3:16The process in the courts expected to take months, if not years. And I asked a DOJ official today about the sell-off that we saw in Apple shares after this announcement earlier today and what the department's message is to shareholders who saw so much value destroyed today. The official said, we are a law enforcement agency and that's how we have to make these decisions. And he also said, we're not out to get anyone. We don't have an ax to grind. And, Melissa, I should say that I'm going to be speaking to Jonathan Cantor tomorrow on Squawk Box in the 8 a.m. hour. He is the head of the antitrust division at the Department of Justice.

3:49This will be his first interview since the Department of Justice dropped this suit. So if you have any questions for him, let me know. I will let you know for sure. Amen, I'm curious. You know, Merrick Garland quoted Apple executives in some of these arguments that he's making, particularly super apps. And I'm wondering, were these were these executives, were they emails? Were they interviews? Yeah, this investigation has been going on a long time and it looks like the department has obtained a lot of evidence here, including emails. They cite emails, including on page one of this complaint today, an email from Steve Jobs himself back in 2010, talking about how they have to restrict the ecosystem around Apple.

4:30So the Department of Justice making the case here that it's got evidence from inside Apple that's going to show that Apple broke the law. Apple, of course, saying, you know, that's nonsense. All right. Eamon, thank you. Eamon Javers in Washington for us. Was a sell off in Apple today? Was it because of this antitrust lawsuit or was it just an excuse to sell for a host of other reasons? I think the latter. And I didn't go to law school, but I think there's a difference between dominance. You didn't? No, I didn't. Did you think I did? I know you probably just you expound so much. I appreciate that.

5:04So you one would have thought. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Melissa. I didn't think you did. And we won't sort of well. We won't adjudicate that here tonight. But what we will is talk about Apple. And again, dominance, monopoly. There is a difference. And again, monopoly to me means something entirely different than having 60 percent share of the U.S. smartphone market. Samsung, I think, is close to 24 percent. I mean, that's dominant. It's not a monopoly, in my opinion. I know there are other issues as well. But to answer your question specifically, look, that was clearly the reason it went lower today.

5:33However, you know, Apple's been trading lower for quite some time and had that bounce off the October lows. We thought that would happen. But there are clearly other things here. So as we said last night, there are reasons to be bearish of Apple. Personally, I don't think this is one of them. I think the legal definitions of, first of all, what a market is, what market we're talking about. Are we talking about the iOS market? Are we talking about the smartphone market? There's a lot of views out there that not only will this be a long process because it's a long process and it's been a long process.

6:02This is a highly telegraphed lawsuit. Nobody woke up today and said, oh, what a surprise, leaving aside the other 16 AGs at states and what's going on in the European Digital Markets Act. But the reality is that the iOS operating system is something that there's a lot of arguments and there's probably some legitimacy to arguments that it is very restrictive. and it's certainly they are the ones that control the shots. But when you think about the smartphone market, it's arguably one of the most competitive markets in the world in Apple. While they are a dominant player, they are not dominating the entire market.

6:37Apple has underperformed the S &P by 23 % since December 11th. And the next question that you're probably going to ask, or we ask this all the time, which is that can markets go higher in this environment? And boy, they sure have. Again, more records today. So Apple's underperformance to me, guys, right. The headlines today don't help Apple. Apple was weakened going into this. I think 4 % down is a lot to do with these headlines. The real dynamic is just two days ago, Apple issued their own little kind of white paper on what they're doing in AI with their multimodal technology, what they're doing with large language models.

7:14No one seems to care. And that's kind of interesting because I think ultimately Apple is in a place with their installed base to have a major, major place here between the context of pictures and text and whatnot. So I just think Apple has been struggling. I think we've seen a change in leadership. Today's market was all about the existing leadership coming back to life. And that was the semiconductor space. Interesting that Micron was part of that. But so is the Fed yesterday. And semis were back on their front foot, outperforming the market by 2 percent. Yeah. Mike, though, you know, in terms of the Apple case specifically, some might say, you know, Microsoft, you know, there was a huge antitrust case against Microsoft way back when.

7:51And nothing actually happened. The company didn't break apart. But the stock did go down significantly, almost by half in the span of a couple of years after that suit was initially unveiled in I think it was 99 or 98. Yeah. I mean, this really goes to the point that Guy was just making, which is about dominance versus monopoly here. I mean, obviously, all of us probably sitting on the desk when we log in in the morning, chances are we're operating on a Microsoft operating system. And, you know, maybe at home you've got an Apple iOS device. But, you know, when it comes to our PCs, a lot of the applications that we use just happen to work a whole lot better on Microsoft's system.

8:30Now, it's interesting because it occurs to me that part of that has to do with the fact that Apple likes to have everything within their own ecosystem. And there's a lot of reasons that they can actually defend this. And that is that oftentimes when you have third-party applications operating in your environment, it creates havoc, and they really want it to be very simple. That said, many of us feel very locked into our Apple devices. I have to say the thing that interests me most when I was looking at Apple today on the options side was the fact that options premiums are still actually below average.

9:01You look back two years, three years, options premiums are actually below the average. About 24 % implied volatility going out three months. Six-month options on Apple right now are about 20 % cheaper than they were a year ago. And the stock has kind of round-tripped in that time. So I think for those people who are in the stock and are wondering what they can do right now, one of the things you could do is potentially hedge, replace your stock with options, because they just aren't that costly. But let's go down the path, Julie. What if this case in some way is successful, you know, and it doesn't have to be fully successful, but maybe parts of it, maybe there is less friction to switch from the iPhone.

9:39I mean, the whole value of Apple, particularly when it comes to the notion that service is going to be the driver of growth, is this ecosystem. And what if that ecosystem is attacked in some way or doesn't exist to the extent that it does today? Yeah, I think that becomes a problem for Apple and their ability to maintain the dominance that they've had. But the thing is, I really struggle with this concept of the ecosystem is a bad thing, right? If you think about a university, for example, that's an ecosystem, right? They're trying to deliver a specific experience. No one is going to UCLA and demanding that XYZ teacher be able to teach, right?

10:14Which is a little bit this super app situation of saying, I want an entree into your ecosystem and what you're trying to develop here. So I just don't think there's a lot of standing for the DOJ here. What I do know is that this is gonna be a headache for them and you probably see revenue from the app store, which is where I think the DOJ has the strongest case, revenue from there start to gradually decline or get softer in terms of the rates that they can charge. All right. For more on the impact of the DOJ suit against Apple, we are joined by Satori Fund founder and portfolio manager Dan Niles.

10:44Dan, great to see you. First of all, do you have a position in Apple right now? Yeah, it'll be confusing to your viewers, but we're actually long Apple, but we're short a bunch of their suppliers because we think that Apple's got fundamental issues going forward and we'd rather attack it through their suppliers right now. We're looking hopefully for a bounce in Apple tomorrow just because I'm sure everybody who's loved this will come out and defend it and hopefully we get a bounce so we can sell it and short it again. So that's kind of how we're thinking about it from a bigger picture standpoint in terms of our position.

11:17I mean, you don't think that this suit is in any way something to factor in when it comes to your long position in Apple. There are a a whole host of other reasons why Apple may have its own issues right now. Yeah, I mean, so let me be clear about it. We dislike this stock fundamentally. We dislike it over the next year, et cetera. You asked me if I had a position in it. It's complicated, but yeah, we bought it towards the end of the day today. But I think if you sold this because of the DOJ, that makes little sense to me because we've known this was coming for a while. They've already lost the lawsuit against Epic in Europe.

11:52The app store rates have already come down. If you are selling it because it's a bad chart, totally understand. If you're selling it because the fundamentals have been poor for a year now, and it's catching up with the stock, and estimates have been coming down for a year now, totally get that. But if you're selling it off this DOJ thing, which is going to take years to sort out, that makes no sense. And with the two standard deviation move lower, we're like, we'll buy it for a trade and rent it. And hopefully, if it goes up tomorrow, we'll sell it and short it again. Strategically, you've been trading from the short side well, by the way.

12:23As Tim said, it's underperformed for quite some time. So understanding you're going to look for entry levels and exit levels, what's your ultimate price target on the downside where if it got there, you're like, OK, this is an entry point for now being on the long side and trading around a long position? So here's the way I think about it. From a long-term perspective, this stock should have a below market multiple. The revenues have not, if you look at what they guided to for the March quarter, they're almost the exact same number as three years ago. They have competition issues with Huawei coming back.

12:58They don't need US chips to make smartphones anymore. And so I look at it trading at a 25 PE versus the S &P at a 22 PE with hardware companies in the PC ecosystem, for example, trading in the low double digits. And so I look at this and I say it should deserve less than a market multiple, given especially that their high margin revenue stream in services is under attack as well. So from the short side, from a long term view and a fundamental view, it's nowhere near where I would think this is a fundamental long. Hey, Dan, Tim, thanks for joining us. In terms of the market's not a zero sum game, but we often talk about Apple as being such a critical stock for the market.

13:42Do you think Apple's weakness actually could be positive for the market? I know this sounds obtuse, but to the extent that we're seeing broader allocation, Apple certainly derives a lot of passive flows, but it also certainly has folks that will be allocating this money to other places that they can find. Again, what is Apple for people? Yeah, it's a market proxy. It's a market way, but it's maybe consumer staples. Maybe it's consumer discretionary. Just thoughts on the bigger picture of Apple's role in the market. I think you're 100 percent right, Tim. I mean, markets are never good when they go straight down based on the Fed and they go straight up based on the Fed.

14:17You can look at the last two years. That's the situation, right? Magnificent seven down 46 percent in 2022. Then they're up 111 percent in 2023. Why? The Fed had the fastest rate hikes in history in 22. two. They stopped in 23. And people were at one point looking for seven rate cuts. Right now, the market's actually really healthy because Tesla stock's down 30%. Estimates were coming down for a year. Apple estimates have been coming down for a year. But the stock was up 48 % last year. This year, however, you've got Apple down 10%. You've got Tesla down 30. And which stocks are performing the best?

14:55Well, the ones that took up numbers the most. NVIDIA up 80%. Meta up another 40%, and then you've got Microsoft and Google and the others kind of in the middle. So the market is reacting to fundamentals the way it should versus some pipe dream about augmented reality is going to be great a decade from now or something like that. This is actually a healthy market. And to your point, the money is finding its ways into other areas. We own several industrial stocks that we like. We own some financials that we like. We own some biotech. And you're seeing the market broadening. And I think that's super healthy, whether you're talking about it coming out of Apple or Tesla or you pick your favorite name.

15:35Dan, great to see you. Thanks for your take. Always appreciate it. Dan Niles of the Satori Fund. So what do you make of this? It's interesting because the markets are trading on hope for artificial intelligence years out. And yet for this lawsuit, if you take a look at the price action, this really means that the market does not believe that this lawsuit will be successful. Because if you think about if it is successful, it becomes basically just a hardware company. And its multiples got to get crushed in that sort of scenario. I don't know, Mike, what's your take? Well, I mean, it's not just the multiple that's going to get crushed, right?

16:07Because if it's successful, then theoretically, they are deriving, you know, these fatter service margins in particular, and that is going to be the part that's going to be under attack. So it's going to be a lower multiple on a much lower number, which I think is where Dan is coming from. But one of the things is, as you pointed out earlier, Microsoft was facing kind of similar types of pressures not that long ago. It seems to be in the rearview mirror now, and that could easily be the case here. So I think, from my perspective, I was just looking at Apple. I would probably only be using options at 24 vol.

16:42Those things are cheap. The stock isn't particularly cheap, even that of the big declines we've seen. So that's just the only way I would be interested in playing it in either direction at this point. Now let's get to an earnings alert on Nike. Shares are on the move in the after-hour session. The conference call just kicking off at the top of the hour. Our own Sarah Eisen has been listening in. Hey, Sarah. Hi, Melissa. So Nike CEO John Donahoe just wrapped up his opening remarks on the conference call, and he struck a different tone than we've heard from him in the past few quarters. They're fighting back and clearly aware of some of the growth challenges that they're having.

17:14He says Nike's not performing at our full potential, but we do see green shoots, for instance, on innovation, which is one of the areas they're investing in. He's put in place all sorts of new leadership to try to turn things around. He said we're acting with urgency when it comes to things like innovation and the pipeline. So let's talk about the numbers that were just reported. They were slightly better than expected after, remember, Nike lowered expectations last quarter, and they showed improvements in some key parts of the business. Certainly on the profit side, margins growing, profitability beating thanks to lower freight costs, for one, cost savings from the restructuring plan that they've been doing as well.

17:53On the sales side, too, revenues did come in slightly better than expected and showed growth, even if just barely. North America was a bright spot and returned to growth after a number of quarters of negative growth. wholesale business, which is what Nike does when it sells to Dick's and Foot Locker and department stores, also growing 3%. So that was a nice surprise for the bulls. The sluggish growth overall, though, in the company has driven the stock underperformance this year and particularly since last quarter. In the statement, in the release, John Donahoe says there's progress. We are encouraged by the progress we've been seeing as we build a multi-year cycle of new innovation, sharpen our brand storytelling and work with our wholesale partners to elevate and grow the marketplace.

18:37Nike has been, as I mentioned, announcing this restructuring. They announced layoffs that they've been going through, 2 % of the overall workforce. It's made a lot of executive changes in the last months, including a new head of design. So investors are keen to hear about these innovation updates, as a number of firms lately have questioned the lull that we have seen in growth and in the product cycle. Melissa. Sarah, thank you. Always good to see Sarah Eisen on Nike. And that has been the knock. I mean, take a look at the share losses to a Hoka and on. I mean, do you have Hoka's on tonight? You know, you make fun of me.

19:13I have Hoka's. I actually have two pair of Hoka's, wise guy. And I happen to like them. Sounds like Hoka's to me. We've seen the top deckers on Hoka. Julie Beal, what's your take on Nike? Yeah, I mean, I think that the innovation is pretty critical. It's nice that they're getting freight benefits, but the long-term outlook, particularly with young people, is really lacking. and they have ceded so much space with their wholesalers to these other upstart brands. They're really in a situation where they have to innovate. They have to spend the money there. They can't just kind of cut cost to their ability to find growth.

19:44And, you know, I think they have the potential to do so, but it kind of remains to be seen. So I think it's a show me story from here. Yeah. Wedbush has said that the long term they are optimistic, but short term a frustrating lack of innovation from Nike, Tim. Well, then you can add it to all the other short terms for the last two years. I mean, this stock has really done nothing. As someone that loves the company and has traded it from the long side and the short side in the last two years, I don't feel the need really to do either. I understand best of breed. I understand the innovation. Also, there's a lot of more innovative brands.

20:15Whether you think Hocus Pocus is one as well, I don't know. But the pros here are clearly margins are better. Comps get easier. There is that story. Also, the health just kind of care, fitness dynamic. It's not health care. The health wellness world that they are in the middle of that. That trend is still going and it's going strong and it's going strong in terms of what people are wearing. Torbett chart real quick. Look at the double bottoms. We have actually talked about this October of 2022 and September of 23. Eighty eight bucks held, bounced, still in a downtrend from basically the spring of 23.

20:48You get a close above one oh six ish. That downtrend has been broken. Maybe have some room to the upside. Coming up, the big night of earnings continues with FedEx delivering on its latest quarter. We'll bring you the very latest next. Plus, we'll check in on the chip rip. Broadcom shares surging more than 5 % today on a big upgrade from TD Cowan. Why investors are fired up about that call right after this.

21:14Welcome back. FedEx stock is surging after the company reported a big beat on earnings. While revenue did come in below expectations, delivery company also announced a$5 billion share buyback program. Frank Holland joins us now with more on the results. Hey, Frank. Hey, Melissa. You know, one metric, it doesn't make a whole report, but with winter weather and softer demand for e-commerce, seeing express revenue in line with a very huge margin beat is clearly giving investors confidence in FedEx's$4 billion cost-cutting plan, the business consolidation plan, and honestly, CEO Raj Shubhamanian himself.

21:47Keep it in mind, though, expectations, they were pretty low. Evercore ISI analyst John Chappell, one of many on our air thinking it was actually possible for express margins, where the company gets half of revenue to come in negative. Bank of America's Ken Huckster said if express margin came in at or below the estimate of 1.1%, that would actually be the lowest since Bank of America began covering the stock. Instead, we saw incremental growth in revenue per package or shipment across the board. It's important to note though, Freight, while it saw a 2.6 % increase in revenue per shipment, it did miss revenue expectations.

22:22There was also a new$5 million share buyback, lower than expected CapEx spending, and a narrowing of the full year guidance where the midpoint is above estimates, all giving investors a lot of confidence and rival UPS getting a boost as well. Their investor day is next week. We'll have to wait and hear what CEO Carol Tomei says about demand and its cost-cutting plan that includes the layoff of about 12 ,000 workers. But of course, before that, we get the FedEx call coming up in a few minutes. All right, keep us posted. Frank, thanks. Frank Holland. Tim, are you in this right now? I'm not in it.

22:52I wish I was in it. And, you know, whether you're a Dow theorist who at least is subscribed to the theory that the market is led by surpassing a previous high, either in the transports or the industrials, I mean, that's what we've had. And industrials have been pulling maybe transports higher. I think there are operational challenges for products on the negative side. I think that Frank talked about some of the margin unexpressed, the yield, the mix. The positive is that this thing's at 12 times. And at 12 times, it is very cheap. It's very cheap to itself, especially if the mid-cycle somewhere on this one is closer to 14 or 15.

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23:24I think it's going higher in the market that we're in. And I don't own it. I don't necessarily need to chase it right now, but I'd certainly like to buy some weakness. Julie, are you more convinced about the FedEx story at this point? Yeah, I mean, I think it has a very big impact when management sets out a restructuring program and you actually see results relatively quickly. I think that gives investors a lot of confidence that, A, they can execute on a difficult plan, and B, that there is earnings that's on the horizon. That's what is driving AI for the companies that it's working for, right, is the earnings are right there in front of you.

23:57So I think that accounts for why we had such a big move in the stock today. Yeah. Mike, where are you on FedEx versus UPS? Yeah, we have a small position. And obviously, we were just talking about operational improvements. I mean, FedEx has two sort of initiatives that they've been pursuing. one that they've called Network 2.0, and the other is the one that's called DRIVE, which is an acronym. Don't ask me what every part of it stands for. But it's basically a lot about efficiencies and automation. You cannot cut your way to growth, which is the thing that I think presents a meaningful headwind.

24:29But you can cut your way to growth in EPS through buybacks. And that actually represents a pretty big one. And it actually exceeds their trailing 12-month free cash flow, the$5 billion that they're talking about. So I'm not exactly sure, because I haven't listened to the call, what period they're talking about there. You know, I think it's kind of even money right here, because I would prefer to see top line growth if I could. All right. There's a lot more Fast Monday to come. Here's what's coming up next. It's a marathon and a sprint. Marathon Petroleum putting pedal to the metal on the way to an all-time high today.

25:04The red hot refiner has tripled since our next guest said to buy it with both hands. Tonight, he returns with another big call on energy. Plus, a new AI contender emerges in the chip space, the huge call on Wall Street that has investors fired up about Broadcom and what it means for your tech portfolio. Right after this, you're watching Fast Money, live from the Nasdaq market side in Times Square. We're back right after this.

25:38Welcome back to Fast Money Chips. Charging ahead today, some to new records. Micron up 14 % after reporting its Q2 earnings last night. A beat on the top and the bottom lines coupled with strong Q3 guidance, powering that stock to an all-time high and its best day since 2011. Broadcom also surging up nearly 6 % thanks to an upgrade from TD Cowan. Analysts there are saying they see more upside ahead for the chipmaker, raised their price target to$1 ,500. That's about 11 percent higher from here. And that's what you wanted to hear about this story, Guy, after what we heard about the quarter. And that's the one.

26:10And we've talked about this. And as long as I've been on a lot, we've been collectively right on Broadcom. And this is one you can sort of wrap your head around in terms of earnings growth, revenue growth and evaluation. It actually makes sense as opposed to some of these other names. So I think they took advantage of the recent weakness in the stock. Good for them. I actually think it probably levitates. And despite a$1 ,300 price tag, which makes it seem expensive, on valuation, it's not. Mike, how do you interpret that move in Micron? Is this sort of reset action for this stock in terms of, you know, viewing it in the prism of an AI player at this point?

26:46Yeah, I mean, I think it is a little bit of a reset. You know, I don't know that Micron's chips, though, necessarily have quite the same demand as something like Broadcom. And actually, you can sort of see that in their operating performance historically. And I know that Tim can speak to this because I've heard him talk about the chips a lot in that area. But look, the fact is that Micron's business is a lot lumpier than Broadcom's is. Broadcom has consistent, persistent demand for their products. The forward number is at less than 30 times probably. And based on the growth that they're seeing, just make it a lot easier to play from the long side as far as I'm concerned.

27:24Micron obviously catching a little bit of a bounce, but this is a bouncy story. I don't know. We love acronyms on the show, right? So I don't know what the acronym for AI at a reasonable price might be. But that's MU. And if you heard their... ARP? I don't know. If anyone's going to come up with it, it's Guy. We love acronyms here, though. But I will say that what you heard from them was extraordinary, especially in terms of how tight the supply is on DRAM and NAND. I mean, that's something we haven't heard. So if you're looking for a company that at least... And in Chipland, wherever we are in the economy, in Chipland, And guess what?

27:57We're early cycle. We work through and you can make an argument here. This company is really cheap. That's what's fascinating about Micron. On some level, more than the more high end, sophisticated chip companies. This is AI at a reasonable price in a part of AA where we recognize where they are positioned. And it's pretty sweet. Coming up, Lululemon on the move after its latest earnings report. The athleisure stock firmly in the downward dog position after issuing weak guidance. The numbers next. But first, Marathon Petroleum at an all time high. It is up more than 200 percent since our next guest said it was time to buy it with both hands.

28:31Paul Sankey returns with another big call in the energy space right after this. Missed a moment of fast? Catch us anytime on the go. Follow the Fast Money podcast. We're back right after this.

28:51Welcome back to Fast Money, another record close for all three major averages today. The Dow jumping nearly 300 points. The S &P about a third of a percent higher. And the Nasdaq is up 30 points. Check out Reddit shares surging nearly 50 percent in their debut session. Trading opened at$47 a share after the company priced its IPO at 34, the high end of the expected range. Plus, gold's glistening rally continues. The precious metal hitting another all-time high today, briefly jumping above$2 ,200 an ounce. Gold now up more than 6 percent just this month. All right. The oil rally taking a breather today.

29:24crude settling modestly lower, but one top industry analyst predicts oil will soon be on a tear again. WTI crude is up 13 percent already this year. Paul Sankey is president of Sankey Research. I believe you are in Houston, where Sarah Week, of course, is going on. Paul, great to have you with us. Thanks for having me. We'd like to highlight really good calls. And Marathon was a really good call. As we mentioned, it's up about 200 percent since you said you'd buy with both hands. So where do you see Marathon going from here? And would you rotate out into another name? No, actually, we're looking for a good quarter from them.

29:59You know, Marathon publish indicators regularly so that you can actually relatively easily see how much money they're going to make. And it looks like Q1 is going to be great. There's, you know, massive buyback play. And I think that, you know, when people are buying these stocks with the scale of the buybacks that you see, they act very, very well. And it's really what we've been selling the whole of the oil industry is, you know, why don't you just cut CapEx and buy back more stock? And, you know, you can do very well without having to worry about trying to grow and everything else because people want that cash return.

30:29So, yeah, it looks good. It looks good for Bolero. And the next real capitalist in all of that will be the Exxon 8K, where they give you earnings guidance for Q1. And that'll be first week in April. So that should also confirm, because, as you know, Exxon's a huge refiner, that things are good for complex Gulf Coast refiners, and that's Marathon Bolero Exxon. Where do you see WTI heading, if you say on a tear? What does that mean? Seasonally, it goes higher, right, because the refiners have to get ready for summer. Economy's, you know, doing very well. So, you know, they'll be running the refineries a lot harder.

31:07Refinering had a lot of downtime in Q1. So not all refiners will have good results in Q1. be careful. But because of the downtime, we've seen a tightening of the oil market in terms of the products. That is gasoline looking really tight here into summer, assuming demand shows up. Down here in Ciro Wico, we had a dinner with a major oil player internationally. He was saying China is looking good relative to a very weak answer last year. So, I think oil prices should have a decent run here. And Saudi continues to keep the market tightening gently. And that, again, will give us a good run into summer.

31:46So we light the oils into summer, definitely. Paul, very quietly, the OAH has had this little move. It's been in this uptrend now for the last three years. It's a grind. What are your thoughts, to the extent you can talk about a Schlumberger, a Halliburton, a Baker Hughes? Honestly, don't really like them. I mean, you know, we've said that you can't be bullish oil and bullish oil service. And the concept behind that is that, you know, we need to see capital discipline from these companies. And as a result, we're not seeing, you know, the higher oil prices are not leading some more spending from the big oils, which used to be the OIA's trade.

32:20Back in the old days, I'm not going to call them the good old days, for every dollar a US exploration production company got is spent$1.20. And that was great for service, so everyone bought service. But now the capital discipline is an issue. Additionally, you've had Saudi cuts in capex, as you may recall. So, that's been pretty negative to Schlumberger. Generally speaking, though, you'll still see these stocks act well with a decent oil price. It's just not the sector. We just don't love it. If we do love it, we like the offshore. So, if you really want to go crazy, buy a rig, diamondback. Schlumberger is fine.

32:55But watch out for the U.S. onshore because we're really looking for more spending cuts, especially in the natural gas area. So that would be Halliburton. Watch out for that one. You know, some of the other less known companies like a pro frac we would avoid. Paul, thanks. Great to see you. Paul Sankey, Sankey Research. Mike, do you like refiners as much as Paul does? Yeah, I mean, if you just take a look, he referenced this. But I mean, if you just go back the last few years, I think one of the reasons that you've seen some weaknesses going into the prior summers is because there has just been a persistent sort of bearishness on the general economy, on consumer spending, on gasoline demand and things like that.

33:39And we have essentially for three years in a row now surpassed the expectations. And I think that's kind of what he's referring to. So I think it does present a very interesting opportunity. And look, a lot of these companies are also, you know, relatively speaking, quite cheap. It has been sort of an under-owned sector. And if you just take a look at the energy complex in general, which is largely going to be led, you know, by the Exxons and Chevrons, of course, but we have basically seen that whole sector rotate from one of the most lagging. It's sort of improving at this point relative to the rest of the market.

34:09All right. We want to do want to get another check on Nike here. Shares are taking a turn lower here as the company gives weak guidance. The company's seeing revenue growth for the full year of about 1%. Q4 revenue will be up slightly, reflecting some shipment timing benefits in Q3 and lower digital growth due to franchise lifecycle management. Top of the hour, they were slightly higher by a percent. Here we are down almost 5%. Tim. Yeah, as somebody that, again, has been on both sides of this trade, I was short Nike for a while, and it's similar to, you know, we may talk about Lulu in a bit, but the concept around some of this discretionary consumer spend and some of the difficult dynamics in terms of where some of their end markets are and where I think the consumers.

34:50If you told me going into this year that this is what we were going to see from Nike, I would have said for sure. This is what I think is going on in consumer discretionary. It's interesting to see it playing out now while we're getting green lights on other parts of the economy. But again, I think Nike has these headwinds. You don't need to chase it here. Yeah. And of course, the other players are all up year to date versus Nike stock, which has just been laggard. But they are identifying their problems. You know, when John Donahoe was talking about full speed ahead with innovation, that's hopeful.

35:17So that down. Yes, it's hopeful. But talk about an underperformance. I mean, this is stock made an all time high, I think, in the fall of twenty one hundred and eighty dollars on a tape that's done extraordinarily well with competitors have done well. Can't get out of its own way. We talked about one oh five being sort of close above one oh five, one oh six. So now that trend line, that downtrend line is still in place and those double bottoms. So what do you do here? I mean, that's the game, right? I think it, where's the trade? 96? I mean, no man's land. You look for an entry point lower or you buy the breakout above 106.

35:48Coming up, more after hours action to bring you shares of Lululemon on the move at reporting results. We will stretch into those numbers. Next, let's talk as you see. They're really taking a hit. And we are celebrating Women's Heritage Month. Here's the co-founder and president of Cloudflare.

36:07For me, a changemaker is someone who forges their own path and makes it wide enough that others can come along with them. One thing I wish I'd known when I was starting my career is that there is a difference between something that is impossible and something that is just hard. And the reason why that is important is people can do hard things. You have to ask yourself, okay, is this just hard or is it impossible? Because impossible is impossible to do, but something that's hard may be a self-imposed constraint and people can do hard things.

36:42Welcome back to Fast Money. We've got another earnings alert, this time on Lululemon. While earnings and revenue came in ahead of expectation, shares of the athleisure clothing brand dropped on weak guidance and slowing growth in North America. Julie Beal, what do you think of Lulu here? Yeah, I mean, I think it's more a function of the fact that in a year the stock is up 60 % than anything else. I think people thought that the momentum and the ability to drive margin expansion was going to be pretty substantial. And you can't really do that in a business like this unless you have the very strong revenue growth to back it up.

37:14So I think there's just some disappointment that it can't sustain quite as much all of this momentum that it's generated. And I think there's also some fatigue, early fatigue on the athleisure trends in terms of How many more pairs of leggings can I buy? Genuinely, how many? I mean, Guy loves leggings. Certainly a question I ask myself every day. I know that a lot of analysts, you know, there were softer demand trends earlier this year. I guess they continued into Q1. Tim, you were in this name. You were short. Everything Julie just said is why I woke up this morning short Lulu. I covered it today.

37:47Feel obviously like a moron. Ultimately, you know, my sense on Lulu was this is one of those names, especially in the current macro, that those outlook trends were not going to be this. And, you know, there was some discipline in terms of stop loss, you know, somewhere around 20 percent down on the trade. Not going to die on the Lulu Hill when I think it's one of the best consumer discretionary companies out there. But it's frustrating because Nike and Lulu are both names that I've played from the short side at different times. With a view that we're hearing from these two companies tonight is exactly what I think you're going to continue to hear.

38:19So poorly carried out, I should say, tactically very poor. But that's the story of markets. You know, it happens. Coming up, Boeing on tour. The planemaker planning to meet with its biggest customers next week. But there will be one notable name missing from the guest list. What it could mean for the company's future. And a huge slate of interviews on Mad Money. Jim is chatting exclusively with the CEOs of Medtronics, Five Below, and Palo Alto Networks. Catch the interviews top of the hour. Meantime, more Fast Money in two.

38:53Welcome back to Fast Money. Airline CEOs are looking for answers amid a string of production issues at Boeing. CNBC confirming reports that airline chiefs have requested a meeting with the Planemaker's board of directors, but that Boeing CEO Dave Calhoun and its CEO of commercial airplanes will not be in attendance. Phil LeBeau joins us now to dig into this story. Phil, should we think that maybe Calhoun might be leaving? Well, you know, it's not my position to say that he's on the hot seat and will be leaving. But let's read the tea leaves here, Melissa. When you have the board of directors, the chairman of the board of directors, Larry Kellner, and at least one board member visiting various airline executive headquarters.

39:37That'll start next week, by the way. That it doesn't take much to read into this in terms of that does not bode well when your CEO will not be at those meetings. when the president of the commercial airplanes division, Stan Deal, will not be at those meetings either. So we're at one of those points here where I think we have so much negative news regarding Boeing, regarding its operations, regarding its relationship with its customers, that when the customers are calling for a meeting, I think something is going to play out here over the next several weeks, Melissa. Exactly what it is, I can't say for sure.

40:11Does it mean that Dave Calhoun is going to be leaving? Who knows? He could be staying and they may be saying, look, we're going to need even greater changes than what have already been outlined. But it's clear the customers now have the attention of the board of directors of Boeing. And that's what these meetings are about next week. Is there are there any executives that come to mind, Phil, that could be a future Boeing CEO? Are there any obvious names to you? There are some obvious names out there. Look, Melissa, I'm going to refrain from saying anything because that implies that they are looking for a CEO.

40:45But look, when you have a company like Boeing and you have an industry like the airline and the aviation industry that has a slew of very talented and capable, capable executives. Yeah, there are some possibilities out there, both within Boeing and outside of Boeing. And again, this is not to say that Dave Calhoun is going to be replaced. Right. Phil, thank you. Phil LeBeau with the latest on Boeing. You know, all these airline CEOs, they want their pound of flesh, I'm sure. Mike, is it going to be in the form of Dave Calhoun's head? Yeah, I mean, look, he could very well be the scapegoat. Look, I mean, you heard Southwest, obviously.

41:24They were complaining they had expected nearly, I think, double the deliveries of planes. You know, the 737-7 Max, that is obviously not happening. I mean, I have to say, in some defense of the executives at Boeing, a lot of the negative news that we've had recently isn't necessarily related to the production issues. And that's really what's basically got the customers complaining. But they've been in the news a lot. And not all of that is the company's fault, I have to say. But they're in a difficult spot because if you're not delivering for your customers, they have another place to go and they might very well do that.

41:59Yeah. Tim? Well, I think it also takes some pressure off the regulator. I mean, I think there's different places where it's just it is easy to kind of move on with a clean slate. I love Boeing here. I really do. And it's not just the defense business. It's the other part of the business that I think the free cash flow is coming back. If the headline is Dave Calhoun is out, Guy, stock goes up. Up. Yep. Up next, Final Trades.

42:24Final Trades, Julie. I was thinking about the transport results after FedEx. SIA is a smaller, more profitable way to do that. Mike Coe. I'd like to sell some cash covered puts in Alphabet. Jim Seymour. Coe's a little desk tonight, by the way. Lift, the L in Blysep. Stay there. Crack staff here in EC. Miles Ross turning 40, 4-0. Happy birthday, Miles. My man. Lucky Martin, Melms. All right. Mad Money with Jim Cramer starts right now.

42:58All opinions expressed by the Fast Money participants are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of CNBC, NBC Universal, their parent company or affiliates, and may have been previously disseminated by them on television, radio, internet, or another medium. You should not treat any opinion expressed on this podcast as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of an opinion. Such opinions are based upon information the Fast Money participants consider reliable, but neither CNBC nor its affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such.

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