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Podcast Summary: CNBC's "Fast Money" - Episode: Bitcoin’s Jump Adds To The FOMO Trade… And UnitedHealth’s Latest Injury (2/28/24)
Episode Overview In this episode of CNBC's "Fast Money," hosted by Melissa Lee, the discussion revolves around the recent surge in Bitcoin, the implications of an antitrust probe against UnitedHealth, and the challenges faced by tech giant Alphabet. The traders analyze various market dynamics and provide insights into investment strategies amidst current trends.
Key Topics Discussed
- Bitcoin Rally and FOMO Trade
- Market Dynamics: Bitcoin has surged back above the $60,000 mark, prompting a renewed interest from retail investors and a rush of activity on crypto platforms such as Coinbase.
- Factors Influencing the Rally:
- Inflation Concerns: Traders speculate that rising inflation might lead to a hawkish stance from the Federal Reserve, making Bitcoin a favorable investment against central banking policies.
- ETF Effects: There’s a belief that upcoming Bitcoin ETFs will attract significant institutional investment, further driving up prices.
- Supply Reduction: The "halving" event, which reduces the supply of Bitcoin, is discussed as a potential catalyst for price increases.
- Caution on Overvaluation: While there is excitement, some traders warn that Bitcoin may be nearing overbought levels, suggesting a potential pullback is possible in the near term.
- UnitedHealth's Challenges
- Antitrust Investigation: UnitedHealth faces a Department of Justice (DOJ) probe regarding its business practices, particularly the relationship between its insurance arm and Optum Health Services.
- Cyber Attack Fallout: The company is still dealing with disruptions from a recent cyber attack, compounding its operational challenges.
- Analysts' Perspectives: Despite these issues, some analysts believe that UnitedHealth remains a buy due to its underlying business model, emphasizing the broader context of industry practices being scrutinized by regulators.
- Alphabet's Stock Performance
- Activist Investor Possibility: With Alphabet's stock hitting lows, one trader suggests it may be ripe for activist investors who could push for operational efficiencies and better returns.
- Struggles with AI Rollouts: Alphabet has faced setbacks with its AI offerings, leading to concerns about its competitive edge in the tech space.
- Valuation Insights: The stock is viewed as undervalued, especially considering its strong cash position and potential in various segments beyond advertising.
Key Takeaways
- The crypto market, particularly Bitcoin, is seeing increased retail engagement driven by FOMO and speculation.
- UnitedHealth is navigating serious regulatory and operational hurdles, which could impact investor sentiment.
- Alphabet's recent challenges could attract activist interest, aiming to leverage its potential for improved operational efficiency and shareholder value.
Traders on the Desk
- Melissa Lee: Host and moderator of discussions.
- Steve Grasso, Karen Feinerman, Guy Adami, Dan Suzuki: Contributing traders providing insights and analysis on the topics discussed.
Closing Thoughts This episode highlights the intersections between market psychology, regulatory scrutiny, and technological advancements, shaping current investment landscapes. The traders' debates provide a nuanced understanding of potential risks and opportunities across various sectors, particularly in cryptocurrency and healthcare.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01Live from the Nasdaq market site in the heart of New York City's Times Square this is fast money. Here's what's on tap tonight. A Bitcoin breakout, the biggest crypto in the world, jumping back above the$60 ,000 mark, closing in on all time highs. It's market cap now nearly as big as Meta's. What's behind this move and can it possibly go even higher? We will debate that. Plus, a stock once called Godlike is coming back down to earth in a big way. The latest headlines dragging down shares of the UnitedHealth and why one top analyst says it is still a buy. And later, Alphabet's no good, very bad week.
0:33Gets worse as shares fall to lowest since mid-December. One of our traders says the company is ripe for an activist to take a stand in the stock. What they're looking for and what it could mean for the tech giant's investors. I'm Melissa Lee coming to you live from Studio B at the NASDAQ. On the desk tonight, Steve Grasso, Karen Feinerman, Guy Adami, and Dan Suzuki, the Deputy Chief Investment Officer at Richard Bernstein Advisors. Welcome, Dan. And we start off with what might be the latest FOMO trade to grip the markets. Bitcoin surging as much as 12 percent today, hitting the 64 ,000 mark at its highs.
1:04It is now at its best level in more than two years, just off its all time high. The recent rally prompting a rush of retail trader activity into the space. Crypto platform Coinbase reporting trouble handling the volume with some users reporting zero dollar balances in their accounts. CEO Brian Armstrong responding to the issues on X saying we are dealing with a large, in all caps, large surge of traffic. Apologies for any issues you encounter. The team is working to remediate. So is the fear of missing out FOMO on the Bitcoin boom, setting traders up for pain? Or can this rally keep riding higher?
1:38Guy. Well, BK, who's with us in a few minutes, he'll explain what's going on. One of the things I think is going on, a lot of this, I think, has to do with what's going on with the inflation readings. You know, there's this concern, I think, that maybe inflation is a bigger problem than the market anticipates, which means maybe the Fed's not going to be as dovish as everybody anticipates, which means maybe Bitcoin is the play here. You know, I've always thought Bitcoin is a play against central bankers, specifically our Federal Reserve. And if the Federal Reserve's in a bit of a pickle here, it makes a lot of sense to me that Bitcoin is going higher.
2:11How do you view Bitcoin as it relates to the markets? Yeah, I don't think there's actually that much unique to Bitcoin right now relative to other speculative assets. I mean, pick your poison, whether you look at the microcaps or any other speculative index, they're all moving up and down over the past few years with speculation. You look at the financial conditions index, it's moving higher just as Bitcoin is moving higher. I don't think that's all a coincidence. Karen. So I think there's a few things going on. This fear of FOMO and anything, right, that seems to be prevalent everywhere. I don't think we've fully seen the ETF effect in that that much money is now going to be entering the market and it has to go somewhere.
2:49So there's that. There is the halving or halvening. I never exactly know which it's called. So we have that. So we have supply getting smaller. And so much of existing Bitcoin is never traded. Right. So there's maybe all of that. And then to Guy's point about inflation, I was saying yesterday that I thought the Fed refusing to cut was actually a little bit of discipline. And that wouldn't necessarily be a great thing for Bitcoin. But if inflation is high and it does seem to be higher than we'd hoped, that would underscore, I should say, Bitcoin bid. I think it's everything everybody said. So the answer to it is all of the above.
3:29But when you think about it, why would it be the having? I struggle with that, too. That sounds like an HBO thing. As opposed to the having? Yeah, it's got to be the having. So it's got to be ETF because people or institutions, I should say, don't get clearance to buy an ETF the first day. It takes weeks, sometimes months to be able to buy it. So you have the ETF, you have the Fed, you have inflation. And I do think there's going to be a pivot. I think it's going to be a dovish pivot, not unlike the one we saw in October. That's going to be a tailwind for Bitcoin. You think the Fed's going to be a dovish pivot?
4:03Yeah, I still believe that they have a vested interest in acting a lot more hawkish than they are, truly. It always has the same thing. You hear from a Fed representative, they're hawkish. You see what they do, it becomes dumbish. We have seen the flows come in very strong and continue to come in even after the approval of the ETFs. And to your point in terms of the delay, I mean, if you're sitting on an investment committee at a pension fund or whatever it is, you wait for your meeting, you have that meeting, you deliver it, you take a vote, etc. And there was a headline just today that Morgan Stanley was examining Bitcoin ETFs to offer on its platforms, its investor platforms.
4:41So when that happens, that could be additional flows into ETFs. Unbelievably correct. Steve makes a great point. BK's talked about this for a long time. And obviously, a lot of this was anticipated without question. Now you're starting to see the dollars flowing as well. But there will be a point like any other security or commodity or index where things get dramatically overbought. And by a lot of different metrics, Bitcoin here at current levels, given the run that it's had over the last week and a half, probably fits that bill. So, you know, you can look at the volumes that came in over the last couple of days.
5:12Huge volumes on these types of spikes typically lead to some exhaustion. I'm not calling it top in Bitcoin, but a pullback from these levels makes a lot of sense. Well, if you think that the all-time high is within sights at this point, we hit it actually in today's session. People, you know, have become whole now, right? People who have bought at the top are whole. Anyone is whole. Anyone is whole. So maybe this is the time to take some profits. That's what Carter-Rex-Worth always says. I think I always believe in the reverse, right? People want to get back to even. So they sell. And then when they write and then that resistance disappears.
5:45And then you get pushed through that level. And everyone who sold said, wow, what a sucker I am for selling there. And they actually become the next tailwind for higher prices. Right. We do have some breaking news of the Supreme Court. We want to get to Eamon Javers, who's got the latest. Eamon, that's right. The Supreme Court just within the past couple of minutes is saying that it will take up the issue of whether former president Donald Trump has blanket immunity from prosecution as a former president of the United States for actions that he took while he was president of the United States.
6:16This just in from the Supreme Court. They say the issue before the court now is whether and if so, to what extent does a former president enjoy presidential immunity from criminal prosecution for conduct alleged to involve official acts during his tenure in office? The court says that it will hear oral arguments during the week of April 22nd. So there is some delay now because we're obviously not in March yet before the court will resolve this issue. But this is the argument that the former president has made is that he has blanket immunity for, in essence, anything he did while he was president of the United States.
6:55The Supreme Court says now that it's going to give that a look. Melissa, back over to you. So I'm sorry, you said a date in April. So that's way after Super Tuesday at that point. Yeah, That's right. That's right. Thank you, Eamon Javers. For more on what's ahead for the crypto rally, let's bring in Fast Money Friend and Bitcoin bull Brian Kelly, CEO BKCM. BK, where do you think we go from here? well it depends on the time frame right so i think everything that you guys talked about is is exactly spot on so you have a asset that is bumping against a former resistance you look at some of the kind of internals one of the things that i look at it a lot is funding rates um and funding rates just a day or so ago got to a hundred percent so effectively you could almost make a hundred percent arbitrage so that brings in sellers we saw it hit 64 000 today and a lot of sellers came in.
7:48So in the relatively short term, it would not surprise me to see a pullback. And I, you know, I tell my team every single day, even in 2017, when we had, you know, Ethereum up 4000 percent, it still had a month that was down 50 percent. So this is an asset that is still extremely volatile. If it pulled back 25 or 30 percent, wouldn't surprise me at all. But long run, I still think we go to new highs. Do you think this price action is is the playbook for when Ether has its ETF approved? I think it could be. I think people will certainly look at this and go, well, boy, if Ether's going to come along and do it, I want to be in ahead of it.
8:26And I think that's what we saw a lot of the action in Ether this month or the last six weeks or so. There's a lot more to Ethereum and some of these level or some of these kind of second tier coins. But yeah, that's certainly a driver of that price for Ethereum. BK, big fan of your work. Tell Brian I say hi. To the extent that you even want to go down this road, what equities sort of are best suited to handle or take advantage of what's going on right now? Yeah, so there's I mean, there's a handful, right? You can go on the miner side, right? And the miners are great trading stocks. The problem I have always had fundamentally with miners is that they're really tough businesses.
9:04You always have to update your equipment. There's a lot of capital outlay. But when Bitcoin's in a bull market, you look at something like CleanSpark was a name that I looked at the other day. It was up 23 percent in the day. So you've got those. You can then go to kind of the service provider. Coinbase would be probably the biggest and most obvious one there. You know, there's clearly seeing massive inflows here. So that'd be another equity I would look at if you wanted to play kind of the ecosystem around crypto. Hey, BK, it's Karen. Also huge, huge fan of your work. Is this Bitcoin itself stealing all the oxygen out of the crypto space?
9:39Or are there other places that you would look that might be having to use the term value is that's a loose, loosely related term here. But where else would you look if anywhere? Do you want to be only in Bitcoin? Yeah, great question. I'm a fan of your questions, Karen. So Bitcoin is sucking. It is sucking all the air out of the ecosystem. If you just looked at the board today, Bitcoin, Ethereum, a little bit of Solana was up and almost everything else was red, right? I do think there could be a rotation trade coming, though, because we had a lot of excitement about Solana. It ran into a little bit of headway.
10:12If today's was this short term top at$64 ,000 for Bitcoin, what typically happens in a bull cycle is all the money that was made in Bitcoin and Ethereum starts to look for another home. So you look at Solana, you might look at something like a chain link, you know, one or two down that have a real use case and a real reason to exist. I think they could actually be the beneficiary of a pullback in Bitcoin. BK, when you look at Marathon and you look at these miners, when you talk about or think about the halving, is that a headwind or do they have to be more efficient in figuring out their business models on mining to make it a tailwind or at least neutralize that headwind?
10:54yeah and every one of these public miners is being incredibly efficient um with their processes right now particularly the halving now the halving to me is a lot more psychological than it is fundamental because it's you know you're going down to 450 bitcoin that's not a lot of bitcoin these days the miners are going to make money you know as long as they control their costs so i think the halving we look back at the last couple cycles you've had bull markets centered around them one year before, 18 months after. So I think people are looking at that. So it's more of a part of the setup phase, but it's not the catalyst for things moving higher, in my view.
11:30Outside of Bitcoin, BK, what's your number one cryptocurrency? Ooh, number one. Now you get me in trouble with everybody in crypto because I don't pick theirs. But I would have to say, and it's a trade that I'm actually doing, is the rotation from Bitcoin, Ethereum into Solana. I think that one's got the next kind of pop higher here. All right. BK, great to see you. Always great to see you. BK, Brian Kelly. Always great to be here. The legend, really, in Bitcoin. Wrote the book, 2014, Bitcoin Big Bang. It is crazy. It is amazing. As we see money go into crypto, Dan, do you think about it as there's an ATM somewhere in the market where the money is coming from?
12:13No, I think what it's telling you is that there's plenty of cash out there. There's plenty of liquidity out there. So there's no ATM because you don't have to go to the ATM because they're sitting on piles of cash. So is that cash going to come into equities and that's another sort of ballast for the markets? I think you're seeing that. I think really you're seeing speculation rise everywhere within equities, within cryptos. And I think it's gone really far. So I think that suggests that you might see some volatility in the near term. Now that we have two Dan – well, Dan's been with us. It's probably good to differentiate.
12:45Well, Dan Nathan and Dan Suzuki. We have only one Dan tonight. Tonight. But to the extent that I think we should, I mean, if you were allowing me to label him, I would label this Dan as sort of handsome Dan. What does that make, Dan? No, no, it's not opposed to anything. I'm just saying he's a very handsome man. Quickly, the ATM question. Look at how miserable gold miners have been for the last couple of weeks. It coincides to a large extent with this move in crypto. So maybe to answer your question in some way, gold mining stocks. Hedge to hedge. Maybe. When is the happening happening in gold?
13:19That's a great question. That's one of those, you know, you're a Diana Ross and the Supremes fan. We're not allowed to play music anymore, but there used to be a great song called The Happening. Now you probably don't want that to happen. America probably doesn't want it. Maybe another show. Meantime, shares of Snowflake and Okta moving in very opposite directions after their respective earnings reports. Let's get to Steve Kovac, who's got all the details. Steve. Hey there, Mel. Yeah, let's go with Snowflake because the big news is coming out of this one. That surprise announcement, CEO Frank Slootman, he's stepping down, sending shares over 20 % lower here after hours, down about 23%, it looks like.
13:52Instead, Sridhar Ramaswamy, a former Google exec, is taking over as CEO. Slootman's still going to be on the board, of course. And he was the mastermind behind Snowflake's IPO back in 2020, which at the time was the biggest software IPO at the time. Also from ServiceNow, you might remember his IPO there. As for Wamaswami, most recently ran a startup called Neva that was a search engine app that Snowflake acquired last year for about$185 million. As for the results here in the quarter, sales were up 32 % year-on-year to$774 million. And operating losses were$275.5 million. That was a big chunk bigger than they were in the year-ago quarter.
14:35And now over to Okta, like you said, moving in the opposite direction, up more than 20 percent after beating on the top and bottom lines. That company has gone through some layoffs and cost restructuring, also naming some new execs here. But look, you see shares up 20 percent on that, Mel. All right. Great. Thanks, Steve. Steve Kovac. By the way, do not miss the outgoing and incoming Snowflake CEOs. They will be on with Jim tonight. That's only on Mad Money, 6 p.m. Eastern time. That's a big decline on the departure of a CEO. So huge decline. But it's also a valuation thing to a certain extent.
15:07It was the fall of 2021. We had conversations on the desk. We said great company trading was trading at the time 80 times revenue. I mean, now the stock's more than cut in half and it's still probably trading close to 40 times ish revenue, which is very expensive. I would submit in any environment. So the answer to your question is, yes, it's a big move lower. It probably makes sense. I mean, there's an opportunity to buy the stock. I don't think it's at 179 or wherever it's trading right now. Where are you on high multiple software, Dan? Yeah, I don't really like high multiple anything. I think clearly it's all caught up in the same story, people chasing these.
15:43And a lot of these are great businesses. It's just people only focusing on the story, not focusing on the investment. And I think that's a mistake. I see. He does look like Dan a little bit when he talks like this. Watch. He's not high multiple anything. If you do this, if you do this, he looks like Dan. So when you look at this, if you go back to November before the whole market took off, This is the level that it's traded down to. So I agree with Guy. It's probably another$25 to the downside. Let's call it$150-ish. Should be support in the name. But as far as the high multiples go, unless you have rates being cut, you can't really buy a high multiple stock.
16:16You've got to wonder what Frank Sloopin is really going to. I mean, he's going to retire, according to this press release. But I don't know. A guy who takes all these companies public, it seems like he's a serial. Yeah, exactly. He's a serial entrepreneur. It's in his blood. So you think he has the next one identified? I don't know. I think it'll be interesting to watch, and we'll see tonight on Mad Money. Coming up, the next battleground stock, Alphabet, why one of our traders thinks the tech giant could be ripe for some activist attention. Who should be interested? More on that later. But first, a bunch of after-hours moves to dig into.
16:45Paramount, Salesforce, and a big move out of C3AI. The details from the quarters ahead. Don't go anywhere. Fast Money is back in two. This is Fast Money with Melissa Lee, right here on CNBC.
17:07Welcome back to Fast Money. We've got some breaking news out of D.C. on the spending bill. Let's get to Emily Wilkins for the details. Emily. Hey, Melissa. Well, yes, congressional leaders have announced that they have got an agreement to kick the can down the road just a little bit longer on federal spending. So instead of having the deadlines be this Friday and next Friday, they're now next Friday and March 22nd. Congressional leaders say that they think that they have six bills that they can get done by next week. But a couple of the bills they admit they're taking a little more time. They're a little trickier to do.
17:38There are a few more debates. And those are the ones they're hoping to pass on March 22nd. I mean, this is a bipartisan agreement, but there are Republicans on the Hill who are not happy about this. They did not want to see a continuation of spending. They don't think that these sort of kicking the can down the road moments are good for Congress or for the party. And so it'll be very interesting to see when this bill comes to the floor in the House, is it going to be able to get a majority support of Republicans? That's going to be a big test for Speaker Johnson. And of course, it's simply a question, can they all move fast enough?
18:11The House will probably be able to get this done very quickly. But of course, in the Senate, any one senator can delay things. And that will raise the question whether or not we will have a small shutdown going into the weekend. Melissa? Emily, thank you. Emily Wilkins. Meantime, shares of Paramount Global up after the media giant reported Q4 revenue that missed expectations but posted a surprise profit and strong streaming results. This after yesterday's news that talks to merge with Warner Brothers Discovery may have broken down. Julia Borson is here with the details. Julia. Melissa, Paramount showing progress in streaming, but there were losses in the traditional business that did outweigh that, particularly on the top line.
18:48Now, the company stressed that its fourth quarter direct-to-consumer losses were less than expected, and it did add slightly more streaming subscribers than anticipated, also announcing that Paramount Plus will hit domestic profitability next year. But while D2C revenues were driven by subscriber growth and pricing increases, as well as ad growth, advertising revenue in Paramount's TV division declined by 15 percent. The company's citing continued softness in the global advertising market. Now, on the earnings call, CEO Bob Backish has been talking a lot about the power of streaming to grow ad effectiveness and also unlocking the company's value for shareholders.
19:24Talked a lot about driving synergies across the company, while Paramount's CFO talked about optimizing cost structure, reducing costs and delivering high quality content. Now, there was just one question about potential M &A. Backish saying we are always looking for ways to create shareholder value. To be clear, that's for all shareholders. He said we're not going to get into any speculation or timing. Obviously, something we're focused on. He said this call is really to talk about business. Melissa? That is business. But anyway, Julia, thank you. Julia Borson, can't wait to get the conference call transcript to see how many questions are asked about potential partnerships, because that is what is being talked about, a potential partnership possibly with Comcast Peacock, for instance.
20:08What do you make of these results? Well, given the short interest and given all this speculation about a takeover, you would have thought this stuff. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago. It would have traded a lot better than it has. And, you know, it's up in the after hours. It hasn't even gotten back what it gave up during the day. So I'm less than impressed. I mean, this has been upper left to lower right for years now. And given, again, all the news that's out there and its inability to rally, I don't know what's going to be the catalyst at this point. Yeah. Well, the balance sheet is the albatross here, right?
20:35I mean, if they could get to break even, that would be great. But do you have that enormous amount of debt? It's sort of I don't know what's happening with the Skydance, Sherry Redstone deal where he was going to take control of part of national amusements. I don't know. I this the the linear TV, that's a very difficult thing to overcome. So I don't like it. If you look back on it and I know everyone's probably said this, especially Guy, as far as technicals, this stock was is trading below its pandemic low. and it was trading at$11.85 during the pandemic, traded below that. Then it ripped all the way up to$100.
21:12Then you remember it had that cascading. Well, that was the Archegos. Exactly, which I can never say the name of that properly. I say it like I know how it takes. That's why I always point to you, so you'll say it. And then it sold off. But this is only, only about M &A. You could talk about everything else. This is only about M &A, and this only makes it a bigger story for Netflix, who this is the game and everyone else is just trying to get some piece of the sun. Coming up, more earnings action. Cheers to Salesforce moving after hours and numbers out of that report next. And a huge drop in UnitedHealth.
21:43The insurance giant is still reeling from its cyber attack. And now regulators are launching an antitrust investigation. How all these bruises are stacking up against the name. You're watching Fast Money live from the Nasdaq MarketSide in Times Square. Back right after this.
22:02Welcome back to Fast Money Stocks. A little change, but closing in the red as investors awaited PCE data tomorrow morning. The Dow notching its third negative session in a row. The S &P lowers well in the NASDAQ, leading the losses down half a percent. Some more after hours movers. Shares of C3 AI surging after it beats on the top and the bottom lines. And HP is lower after a revenue miss. Salesforce also on the move after earnings results. The stock is down more than 3 percent despite beats on the top and the bottom lines. CEO Mark Benioff telling investors moments ago he's initiating a dividend and increasing buybacks.
22:35Kate Rooney is here with the details. Kate. Hey, Melissa. So Salesforce announcing its first ever dividend. It's a 40 cents. It's also upping its share buybacks by 10 billion dollars, but weaker than expected. Revenue guidance is overshadowing that news and the earnings beat. Shares have been down. You see more than 3 percent. Salesforce is looking for revenue of between$37.7 billion and$38 billion. That was a miss. Investors worry it signals a slowdown in spending on cloud and technology. Its clients have been scaling back on cost amid higher rates and inflation. Margins were slightly below expectations in the fourth quarter, but we're still above 30 percent.
Read the full transcript
23:08CEO Mark Benioff on the analyst call saying it was an extraordinary year of transformation, as he put it. He is on maybe a minute 20 right now of talking about AI. He pointed to what he called the incredible door it's open of artificial intelligence. He calls it the single most important period of technological innovation. He's been taking jabs at other AI chatbots and how they use data. He's talking about hallucinations in some of those chatbots. He's arguing Salesforce, as he put it, has the most intuitive interface on AI and also is talking about metadata and how impactful that could be. Benioff is going to be talking with Jim Cramer on Mad Money, 6 p.m.
23:43Eastern. Don't want to miss that one. Mel, back to you. All right, Kate, thanks. Kate Rooney. The slowdown in business spend, I would love to hear what they say in terms of how that has, you know, gone through the quarter in terms of after the quarter close. Because as Kate just said, so this was the fourth quarter report. So this is full year 25 revenue guidance disappointing against a backdrop where people are raising revenue guidance in a meaningful way with a company that's trading at a huge valuation, which if you put up a chart going back to November of 2021, you'll see we traded up to and seemingly have failed at the prior all-time high.
24:20So you've got a lot of things stacked against this stock right now. We've seen them pull rabbits out of the hat before, but I actually look at the dividend and the$10 billion buyback. I understand people say it's a positive. I'm saying to myself, hmm, that's interesting that they're doing this now as they see maybe revenue slowing down in this year. So I'll just throw that out there to stir it up a little bit. especially after Meta announced a dividend. And so it gets you wondering, Dan, you know, when you see these companies that are supposed to be innovative and on the cutting edge, et cetera, initiate dividends, what are your thoughts?
24:49Yeah, I think it's funny how the narrative, you know, shifts so easily, right? So back in the day, you announced a dividend. It means you've matured and you moved on to a lesser growth stage of your life. That's no longer the case. They're trying to sell you that they can give you everything. They can be everything to all buyers. And I think that's very tough to do. And that's what you're seeing in the numbers. The absolute numbers for all these companies are really good. But they're on the second derivative. They're actually slowing. I think that's the concern going forward. Hold on. The meta second derivative was actually more positive.
25:21I mean, that was just hitting on all cylinders and the buyback and the dividend, which I actually wasn't a huge fan of for the reason you said, oh, now we're mature. I mean, that Mark Zuckerberg is now the grown up in the room and pays a dividend is kind of funny. But I think I agree with you, Jim. I think that's a fair point. But if you look, yes, a lot of some of these companies, the peak is in some of the companies. The peak is coming. But you look at the analyst forecast over the next two or three quarters. I mean, all this stuff is not going to be the driver of the earnings acceleration from here that people are forecasting for the S &P.
25:52Think about what Benioff has done, though. He fought off the activists. The stock looks like it's screaming. But to Guy's point, the stock was trading over three hundred dollars and then it traded down to one hundred twenty five dollars. And then it ripped higher from there. Now he's had his year of efficiency. He fought off the activists. Now he's got to prove that AI moves the needle. All right. Coming up, two huge stops in the red today. UnitedHealth dropping as the DOJ looks into the insurer. And Alphabet setting a new low for the year. More on both these moves and what to say for investors when Fast Money returns.
26:23Missed a moment of Fast? Catch us anytime on the go. Follow the Fast Money podcast. We're back right after this.
26:40We've got a news alert on Boeing. Eamon Javers got the details. Eamon. Hey there, Melissa. Bloomberg dropping a scoop here just over the past couple of minutes on Boeing. Bloomberg reporting here that the Department of Justice is looking into the blowout of that door on that Alaska Airlines flight over the past month. That was a Boeing aircraft. And the question here is, is there any criminal liability for Boeing as a result of that? You might ask, how is that possible? Well, remember, back in 2021, Boeing had a deferred prosecution agreement with the Department of Justice. They paid a two point five billion dollar settlement over the seven thirty seven max issues that they've been having.
27:16And under that agreement agreement, Boeing agreed to do a number of things, including not deceiving regulators, including folks at the FAA. So the possibility here is that there might be some violation of that deferred prosecution agreement that would open Boeing up to criminal liability here. Department of Justice, again, according to Bloomberg, now looking into that issue. Another headache here for Boeing after hours. Melissa, back over to you. The key here, though, Eamon, would be it would have to be proved that Boeing deceived regulators as opposed to just were incompetent in overseeing its its quality control.
27:51Yeah, well, what you'd have to do is prove that they violated their deferred prosecution agreement in some material way. Now, those agreements are really complicated. They agree to bring in compliance officials and all kinds of other folks. So depending on what the exact stipulations of that agreement were, you'd have to prove that they broke the deal, basically, and they're liable for it. So not clear where this is going to go, but apparently they are looking into it. Yep. Eamon, thank you. Eamon Jarvers. I mean, Boeing just can't get out of his way. of his own way. Probably giving back what it got during the day.
28:23I'm guessing I think it was up six bucks today. It's probably giving that back in the after hours. For whatever reason, that sort of one ninety eight to two hundred hour level has been support a couple of times. But we're going to look at it again. So how do you play Boeing? Maybe at this point you have to wait until earnings in April. I don't know. Or you can just say all this will pass over. And just on the back of the defense business, the stock is just too cheap. All right. Meantime, United Health shares dropping almost 3 % today after the DOJ announced an antitrust probe against the company, the agency focusing largely on the relationship between UNH's insurance unit and its Optum Health Services arm, as well as Medicare billing issues.
28:59Meantime, the company is still dealing with system outages caused by a cyber attack from a, quote, suspected nation state associated actor. Raymond James, Managing Director of Healthcare Equity Research, John Ransom, joins us now with more on the battles facing UNH. John, great to have you with us. Starting off with the DOJ probe, I mean, this is something that UNH has been doing for years in terms of acquiring all these various practices, surgery centers, practices, et cetera. And at this point, the DOJ steps in. What do you think they're looking for? The first point is, you know, the payer providership sailed about a generation ago.
29:37Look at Kaiser, for example. So it's hard to pick on United for doing this when a lot of their peers have done the same. I think what they're looking at is, you know, United Healthcare has$150 billion of intercompany revenue elimination, so they do a lot of business with themselves. And in particular, one of the bigger items is that on the insurance side, they'll take in a Medicare Advantage patient, and that same patient might be cared for in their Optum Health unit, and they'll take risk with themselves. And what the government's trying to say is you can only earn a 15 percent margin between the insurance subsidiary and the Optum Health subsidiary.
30:13And we think that's kind of a fanciful interpretation of the rule. How does it factor in that UNH and some of the other insurers, their medical loss ratios have gone through the roof in recent quarters? I mean, does that is that any sort of a defense on the part of UNH or any of the others? I think it's maybe an argument about the rate notice they got, which was pretty disappointing. But it's not really a structural argument about the 15 percent medical cost limit. It's Karen. Thanks for being on. Is there any kind of smoking gun? Is that what they're looking for, even though this is an old I mean, the structures that would have been built up over time.
30:50And I think I saw in your notes, you can't unscramble the eggs, which is true. How did this come about now? I hope you enjoyed that cliche. It wasn't very original. The smoking gun, look, I'm old enough to remember HCA and them paying a large fine. All you need is one careless email. So I would never say in a company as big as United, there's not one careless email that can lead to a fine. But I think more fundamentally, though, the fact that the government is pushing integrated care and they don't like fee-for-service, and yet they also don't want an integration of payer and provider. There's even a phrase called pay provider, you know, which talks about this and you move away from fee for service and toward population health.
31:33I don't think, you know, that's very popular because these clinics bring extra services to seniors and I think they do produce better outcomes. So I don't think we want to push everybody back into warring camps between payers and providers and fee for service because that's what would eventually happen. So we, and I'm echoing our DC analyst, Chris Meekins, We think the FTC is, you know, it's going to take a long time to resolve and it's ultimately not going to mean anything. Separately, John, on the subject of weight loss drugs, do you think insurers will increase coverage? I mean, you make the point in your note that the numbers just cannot add up for employers to actually do this.
32:12So employers spend about seven thousand per life and these drugs are about twelve thousand per life. So even a state school grad like myself can do that math and say that doesn't really add up. So every person you add on a GLP for a plan, you're almost doubling your spend. Now, I know there are deductibles and copays and the like. But I think the view of the plan sponsors is that, you know, the diabetes drugs, which these are the same drugs, they were about$500 a month after rebate. So why are these drugs$1 ,000 just because you ran a trial? So, you know, we did a – I can bore you with our 70-plus slide deck on this.
32:47We did our de rigueur analysis of this. But I think in short, these drugs are going to have to get a lot cheaper to get mass adoption. Right now, we think the TAM in the U.S. is about 40 million people. And that's rich people and that's people with rich benefits. But to get to mass adoption, you've got to get the price elasticity to do its work. And I think the thing that we probably underestimate the bulls might under is the churn. The churn is at least 50 percent. So to get to that 20 million, you've got to get 40 million people started to get to 20 million if you believe in this churn. These are tough to stay on for a long time.
33:20All right. John, thank you. Great to have you. John Ransom. Thank you. Where are you seeing on UNH in this whole probe? I mean, these probes move really slowly. It is sort of a cloud hanging over their head. So, you know, I'm in Elevance. It's a little simpler business. All right. Meantime, for an in-depth look at the obesity drug market, don't forget to tune in tomorrow, 10 p.m. Eastern, for the premiere of my documentary, Big Shot, the Ozempic Revolution, right here on CNBC. In the doc, we'll explore the impact of the insurance industry on patients hoping to receive this potentially life-changing medication.
33:52Take a look. For Natalie's family, who are wary of bariatric surgery, GLP-1 drugs are a glimmer of hope. I'd prescribe it today for you because I think you'd do really well with it, especially since you're so responsible. But now there's another roadblock, the cost. Medicaid covering it. Currently, North Carolina Medicaid is not covering it. How much does it cost per month for a patient? It's anywhere between$1 ,000 and$1 ,400 per month of a medication that you might need to be on for the rest of your life. $1 ,000 a month,$1 ,500 a month. I can't afford that. That's placing this medicine out of the hands of nearly every person that walks through our door.
34:36Catch a full documentary tomorrow, 10 p.m. Eastern Time on CNBC. Coming up, should an activist be setting its sights on Alphabet? Why one of our traders says the Google parent is setting itself up for exactly that. We're going to dig into that one when Fast Money returns.
34:57Welcome back to Fast Money. It's been a rocky month for Alphabet. First rebranding its AI chatbot, then taking its image generation tool offline after mistakes CEO Sundar Pichai called problematic. The stock now down nearly 3 % in February, on track to break a three-month winning streak. One of our traders thinks that it could be the perfect time for activists to get involved. Karen, why would you say that? Yes, I know it sounds counterintuitive. Well, OK, first of all, it's cheap, particularly if you back out the cash. This is below a market multiple, below 20, which seems sort of amazing for, granted, a search product that might be under threat but is still enormous and incredibly profitable.
35:34So they had, you know, the multiple missteps, as we said, the barred and then changing the name. And then this last one, which he called not only problematic, unacceptable. I mean, this was a disaster. And Karis Wisher was on yesterday saying, you know, people act like Google's late to the AI party. They were early in the AI party. It's just the rollout has kind of been terrible. And if you think about that 20 times multiple, that doesn't include the cloud business, doesn't include YouTube. So actually, the advertising business is trading for even cheaper than that. So to me, this is ripe for an activist.
36:05And I know it's a$1.7 trillion company, but they can be a lot more efficient. I mean, it's a buck a share almost, not quite maybe for just Google Bets, which is not really produced much lately. And if you think about somebody like an Elliott, like a Pershing Square, like a Value Act, that they're not in it for the short term, and I'm not in it for the short term. I've been in this one for a very, very long time. But I actually look, Pershing, it's actually the biggest position, bigger than Chipotle, when you put the Class A and Class C together. Oh. So, I mean, somebody like a Bill Ackman or Bill, if you happen to be watching, I'm sure you've looked at this closely.
36:41Huge, huge fan of the show. And in Elliott, I mean, we talked about CRM earlier, Salesforce. And you had Elliott and you had, was it, who was the other one? Starboard. and then one other. And it's not that they're going to come over and make a takeover bid. It's that just because you're huge and you're too big to be taken over doesn't mean that you can't get help from somewhere else or another view. I remember when Ruth Porat came in and really shook things up and showed transparency and there was an adult in the room. Ruth is sadly moving to a different kind of role. I hope it's a very active role.
37:13But they're just sort of floundering in a time that they really should be shining. If Sundar Pichai stepped down or was replaced, do you think the stock would go higher? I always think the person who should take responsibility is always the CEO. And it's got to go from the top down in something like this. They own 94%. Is that the number in search? In search. So they should be, to Kara's point, they should be the ones that are at the head of the pack, and they keep screwing it up. And you have to ask yourself, why does that keep happening? So if you have a past pattern of it and they can't get out of their own way, you don't want to buy the stock.
37:56But as far as an activist, it's too tough for them in an alphabet. It's more of an advisor's role that would come in. But we see where I mean, we could see it happen in a Disney. We could see it happen. I think we saw it happen in CRM when you said he beat the activists. No, he jujitsu the activists. He invited them in. Listen to them. It sort of worked. Right. Mission accomplished. coming up cnbc's change maker cnbc unveiling its list of 50 female trailblazers who are transforming business and philanthropy will highlight some of the women changing the game of sports and the chairwoman will share her nominee or fast money in two
38:44Welcome back to Fast Money. This morning, we revealed CNBC's first-ever Changemakers list, 50 Women Transforming Business and Philanthropy. One of the women honored Kia Clark, CEO of the WNBA's New York Liberty, who was nominated by our very own Karen Fireman. And for more on game-changing women in sports, let's bring back Julia Borson. Julia. Well, Melissa, the 50 changemakers on our list span industries in 17 different industries, but there are four women on the list that are shaking up the business of sports. You mentioned Kia Clark. As CEO of New York Liberty, she's grown the team's attendance by 45 % in the past year, and in that time has nearly doubled its sponsorship portfolio.
39:22She's also expanded the Liberty's impact in social justice, including partnering with Nike to release the Liberty's equality jerseys. She's joined on the list by the head of the WNBA, Kathy Engelbert, who oversaw the most successful, most watched season in WNBA history with a new team that's coming to the Bay Area next year. Also on the list, Jessica Berman, who runs the Women's National Soccer League. She struck a new media rights deal totaling$240 million. That's 40 times more than the league's previous media agreements. She's been overseeing growth across attendance, viewership and sponsorship revenue.
40:00Plus, we have on the list Naomi Osaka, who isn't just shaking up things on the tennis court. She's also building a media company, a philanthropic arm and a skincare line. Sports is certainly in the forefront of pop culture. And these leaders are putting women's sports on the main stage. Melissa. Thank you, Julia. What a list. And it's going to happen every year now. Changemakers 50. Thank you. Karen is part of the advisory board for this project. You didn't evaluate your own nominee, but what was the process? Well, I did. I put her up for it. You nominated her. Right. And then I saw so many of the other nominees were just, I mean, just one extraordinary profile after another in so many different fields, as Julia said, and just inspiring stories where they came from and amazing stories of what they're doing, just transforming businesses and growing revenues and growing awareness.
40:48I mean, it was really quite a humbling thing to try to pick other people for a list that I would never be on. So, I mean, it was really it was really a fun thing to do. And Kia Clark has just done an extraordinary job with the New York Liberty. I mean, Julia talked about some of the highlights, but the transformation of this team and this business and this entertainment. You know, I love going to Liberty Games, trying to get you. It's not quite your thing. It'll become your thing. So, I mean, I was thrilled to be a part of it and thrilled for Kia Clark. She's fantastic. And she and Clara, Clara Wu-Sai, the owner of the Liberty with her husband, Joe, is, I mean, they've done just an extraordinary job.
41:25Kathy Engelbert, too. Amazing. Karen's far too humble. I mean, six, seven years ago, when the WNBA was struggling, she had the vision, said, I am telling you something, G-Swiss. She didn't say G-Swiss, but she said, this is going to be something. And look at it. I mean, the finals of the WNBA were so, it was amazing. Yeah. Biggest viewership ever. So congratulations to Karen. Yep. and to Julia Borson. Absolutely. Up next, your final trades.
41:58Time for the final trade. Steve Grosso. Oh, my God. Shake Shack. Have you looked at a chart on this thing? I bought it in the low 60s. I bought it off a Raymond James upgrade. Stock's over 100. I'm staying long. Karen. Yeah, so TJX just quietly gets it done, gets it done. Not a lot of fireworks, but I'm staying long TJX. Maxinista. Dan Suzuki. Emerging market profit cycle is picking up speed, and it's not pricing in, so I think that's a great buy here. Great to have you on the desk tonight, Dan. Thank you. Handsome, Dan. You know, I worked at Shake Shack, by the way. And happy one-year anniversary to Harvey Schwartz, big fan of the show.
42:32Oh, yeah? Look at what Carlisle's done over the last few months as he's gotten his arms around the group. CG. Surrounded it. All right. Thanks for watching Fast Money. Don't go anywhere. Mad Money with Jim Cramer starts right now.
43:12the Fast Money participants consider reliable, but neither CNBC nor its affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such. To view the full Fast Money disclaimer, please visit cnbc.com forward slash Fast Money disclaimer.
From the publisher
A new leg of the FOMO trade. It’s not just AI stocks. The crypto craze seems to be getting another boost as retail investors pile in. Can the rally continue? Or are more painful losses around the corner?
Plus… UnitedHealth facing a DOJ antitrust probe, while the insurance giant still deals with the fallout from its recent cyber hack. Our traders dig into the prognosis for this stock.
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