In short
Fast Money episode covering Micron’s earnings surge and what it signals for AI memory demand, plus debate over whether Fed rate-hike odds are mispriced. It also covers Fed stress-test results and bank dividend/buyback moves, Bitcoin weakness, China tech pressure on Alibaba, gold’s drop below $4K, a new low-priced EV pickup (Slate Auto), and final trade ideas.
Guests (on-air analysts/hosts)
Carter Worth, Dan Nathan, Guy Adami, Tony Wong (T. Rowe Price), and Tony’s segment partner Christina Partsinevolos; also reporters/market guests include Damon Javers (White House), Leslie Picker (banks), Phil LeBeau (Slate Auto), and Ben Ammons (FedWatch Advisors).
Key claims
Micron’s revenue “quadruples,” gross margins ~80%, and 16 strategic customer agreements (14 locking ~$100B minimum guaranteed revenue through ~2030) suggest a structural shift, not a temporary pricing spike; DRAM/NAND supply stays tight beyond 2027. FedWatch Advisors says July hike odds (~35%) are mispriced and the Fed is likely on hold. Banks passed Fed stress tests; JPM authorized a $50B buyback.
Notable examples
Micron’s long-term deals; JPM dividend increase and $50B buyback; Alibaba down nearly 3% after Anthropic alleged illicit access to its AI model via fraudulent accounts; gold down ~12% since early June; Slate Auto EV pickup pre-orders around ~$25K base price.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMicron's Strong Earnings Report
0:45 to 2:55
Discussion on Micron's quarterly earnings and strategic customer agreements.
“You know, you thought the market, the S &P was higher, gave up its gains late.”
Market Implications of Micron's Performance
2:55 to 5:04
Experts discuss the implications of Micron's earnings on the semiconductor market.
“Tony, is this an all clear in some ways for semis?”
Cyclicality and Long-Term Trends
5:04 to 8:01
Conversation on the cyclical nature of Micron and market trends affecting the industry.
“The question you have to ask yourself is when the music stops, what kind of moat is around the business, and how long will it last and how long will this cycle last?”
Breaking News from the White House
8:01 to 8:40
Update on President Trump's comments regarding gas prices and housing policies.
“Well, look, I think that, you know, there's a fascinating conversation because every semiconductor playbook that you have historically say sell the stocks here.”
Fed Stress Test Results and Bank Dividends
8:40 to 11:15
Overview of the latest Fed stress test results and bank dividend announcements.
“But we got some breaking news out of the White House tonight.”
Financial Sector Outlook
11:15 to 14:06
Discussion on the current performance of financial stocks and market conditions.
“and authorizing a new$50 billion buyback program beginning July 1.”
Market Overview: Bitcoin and Crypto Trends
14:06 to 17:42
Learn about the current state of Bitcoin prices, crypto stocks, and market sentiments regarding AI investments.
“I mean, it was almost a rounding error that a lot of these banks made in their revenues for Q2.”
Impact of Housing Sector on Market
17:42 to 20:30
Explore how the housing sector's performance, influenced by policy changes, affects market dynamics.
“The housing sector surging today despite the president's canceling of that bipartisan housing bill signing, which was meant to improve affordability.”
Banking Sector Updates and Dividend Insights
20:30 to 21:58
Get insights on Bank of America's dividend announcements and the broader banking sector's performance.
“Yeah, we got a first look at a statement from Bank of America Chair and CEO Brian Moynihan before it's released more broadly.”
Challenges Facing China Tech Companies
21:58 to 24:18
Understand the significant pressures on Chinese tech giants like Alibaba and the implications for the sector.
“When we come back, more trouble for China tech.”
Show all 16 chapters
Market Predictions and Fed Rate Hike Speculations
24:18 to 28:00
Dive into discussions about the potential for Fed rate hikes and their impact on various markets.
“Now, obviously, Alibaba trades awfully here.”
Market Risks and Dollar Dynamics
28:00 to 32:40
Discussion on market risks related to midterms and the dynamics of the dollar and inflation.
“And as in the 10 and the 30, you'll go down a bit more than the two year yields.”
Qualcomm's Transformation into AI
32:40 to 34:20
Overview of Qualcomm's new financial targets and its evolution into an AI-focused company.
“Shares of Qualcomm surging after hours on the back of this updated financial target.”
Gold Market Trends
34:20 to 36:23
Analysis of the current state of the gold market and predictions on future movements.
“Tony, a lot of ink's been spilled about Qualcomm and sort of shedding that mobile Scarlet A over the past couple of months.”
Affordable Electric Vehicles
36:23 to 41:26
Exploration of Slate Auto's strategy with its affordable electric pickup truck and market challenges.
“The yellow metal briefly below 4K for the first time since November and now down 12 % since the beginning of June, 24 % since the Iran war began.”
Final Trades and Recommendations
42:00 to 42:50
Get insights on final trade recommendations from the panel.
“Firm Holdings, the digital commerce site.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01Live from the Nasdaq market site in the heart of New York City Times Square. This is Fast Money. Here's what's on tap tonight. Memory restored. Micron moving sharply higher as revenue quadruples in the quarter. We'll go inside the numbers, get all the details from the conference call coming up. Plus, mispricing rate hike odds. Why Wall Street might be getting it wrong on the Fed's next move. Later on, homebuilders hit the nail on the head. BABA continues its June swoon. And gold losing some of its shine, where the chart master sees the metal heading after dipping below 4K. I'm Carl Quintana in for Melissa Lee, coming to you live from Studio B at the NASDAQ.
0:34On the desk tonight, Carter Worth, Dan Nathan, Guy Adami, Tony Wong of T. Rowe Price. Interesting market day, guys. Good to be with you all. Hold on. Don't do the royalty thing. No, OK, I won't do it. But we know, I know, right? Mount Rushmore, Carl's on top of it. Yeah, it was a fascinating day today. You know, you thought the market, the S &P was higher, gave up its gains late. What does that speak to? Does it speak to some of the technical damage it's been over the last couple of weeks? I think it does. And then you have Mike Ron in the after hours. And maybe that'll change the narrative tomorrow.
1:05But I still think some damage has been done that we're going to be talking about over the next couple of weeks. Let's begin with that big move in Micron. Shares are surging after hours as the company handily beats on the top and the bottom line. Comes as chips and the broader tech space have struggled this week. NASDAQ really unable to hold those early gains, posting a third straight day of losses, now down 4 % for the week. All of that, though, could change tomorrow as we watch Micron up here 14 after the bell. Let's get to Christina Partzinevolos and walk us through the quarter. Hey, KP. Hi, Carl.
1:36Well, the call is still underway, so I was just listening, and management dropped a number that really moved the stock after ours. 16 strategic customer agreements now signed, with actually 14 of them locking in roughly$100 billion in minimum guaranteed revenue just over the life of the contracts. And so these run on average about five years through 2030. And once they're all in place, Micron expects about half or more of total company revenue to be under these long-term deals. And that's the long-term strategic agreements we've been watching for and analysts really wanted to hear about. But now you actually have real numbers attached to them.
2:11On the CapEx front, fiscal 2027 spending is now guided above$40 billion, more than half of that increase going into construction, of course, as Micron pulls forward cleanroom capacity to keep up with demand. And then on the supply side, we know the demand backdrop. Everybody wants these memory chips. The company says DRAM and NAND should stay tight beyond 2027, even later than they previously signaled. So that is a strength for the long term. Put this all together. This is Micron trying to convince Wall Street that this isn't just another pricing spike. It's a structural shift with contracts now backing up the story, which could really provide a foundation for the AI trade in the coming days, guys.
2:53Christina, thanks for that. Christina Parts of Nevolos. Tony, is this an all clear in some ways for semis? Well, I definitely think the results are really strong. I mean, like really great gross margins, you know, these strategic agreements like suggest that there is something structural going on. I mean, customers have never like done anything like this. So I do think it's like pretty supportive of the bull case. Of course, you're always wondering about the cyclical aspects of it and like where is the demand destruction. But, you know, I think you do need HBM and DRAM for AI and it's becoming like more important.
3:21And HBM specifically is super hard to make. So it really rewards suppliers that can do it and have the technical prowess. Yeah, I mean, one of the issues, though, is that it takes like a couple of years minimum to kind of make these fabs, right, that are going to create this HBM, which you just said, Tony, is like not easy to make. And when you think about these long term contracts that K-Parts just spoke to, I mean, you can break these things. I mean, especially if there is a scenario where the demand pulls back. And so, you know, we've seen this in almost every tech cycle with a company like Micron.
3:50You know, they're slow to react to demand. They build out capacity. And by the time they actually get the capacity online, then you have a pricing situation. We've already seen this from the Koreans that they are going to compete to some degree on price. So if you get excited about the fact that this company just put up an 80 percent gross margin, I mean, that's as good as it gets. It's not going to get any better from here. And so, you know, if you're buying the stock at twelve hundred bucks, whereas trading a couple days ago, you know, up 14 percent or something like that. I just think it's a tough way to kind of chase this trade right now because it really is one of the last bastions, if you will, of the excitement in and around the AI infrastructure built.
4:28Just look at the way the hyperscalers, which are their biggest customers, have been trading over the last couple of months. Yeah. What, MAG7's underperforming S &P by, what, 10 points or something for the year? Yeah. Something like that? Which is, you know, if you had told me that in the beginning of the year and said, OK, guy, you know, what's going on with the broader market? I'd say we're in a lot of trouble here, yet here we are basically at an all-time high. the last week or so notwithstanding. The quarter's remarkable, and I'm someone that's been a skeptic, a skeptic through the lens of history.
4:53And history is a highly cyclical, highly commoditized company that you don't buy when it's cheap, you buy it when it's expensive. Obviously, they've changed the narrative, and it looks like it's here to stay for a period of time. 81 % operating margins are extraordinary, and the growth is as well. The question you have to ask yourself is when the music stops, what kind of moat is around the business, and how long will it last and how long will this cycle last? Because when you see any glimpse or hint of a slowdown, it changes dramatically. And if you want proof positive, go back to March and look how quickly the stock went from then an all-time high of 450, if you remember, down about 320 over the course of a couple of weeks.
5:32It seems like a blip now, given where we are. It was a big deal then. I know it was because you guys were talking about it. Carter, to Dan's point about gross margins, I mean, there is some discussion tonight about how these numbers kind of make NVIDIA margins look like little brother margins. I guess NVIDIA is practically a value. But, I mean, you guys are covering the main subject, which is cyclicality. I mean, for instance, this stock has had six instances where it's dropped more than 50%. In 2024-25, Micron dropped 61%. We know in the dot-com boom, it lost 98 % of its value. And here for fun is a headline within the past three years.
6:10quote, micron sets 10 % job cuts due to supply-demand imbalance, memory chip glut, profitability expect to remain challenged, larger than expected, court of loss, substantial, worse supply-demand imbalance in a decade, collapsing memory. This is all in the last three years. It's micron. It's cyclical. Everybody knows this. Hard to know when the cycle changes, but if that's now what we were hearing three years ago, it's the equal and opposite moment. Just as things get loved, then they get hated. You know, take measures. Reduce exposure to this theme. What's our general view, Dan, on just the Qs in general, which I think are obviously going to be up after hours, but like the volatility, the inability to catch this dip over the last few sessions?
6:56I mean, something if you just look at the Sox also, I mean, the volatility bans have been widened dramatically, right? And they've been hanging around at these all-time highs. And when you think about the QQQ, I mean, this is, in my opinion, this is one of the best ETFs. I love it that the top 10 names make up 50%. I'm not being sarcastic about that because you don't have the idiosyncratic risk as a micron moves up into those top 5%. Is that keeping it kind of bid here? Yeah, no doubt about it. But we've also seen, to your point, some of the other large names in this ETF or in the index in particular, the NDX, they've gone sideways.
7:29They're underperforming, as you just mentioned. So I just think there's the opportunity to kind of see rotation within the NDX or the QQQ. And, you know, to me, it's also one of these things that, yes, we will have a pullback in this entire theme. And we're going to see stocks. Hey, Microsoft's down 30 percent from its all time highs last year. And if you don't think these stocks can get cut in half to what, you know, Carter just said, like you're just not looking at history properly. So the QQQ, it might be an opportunity as a perfect hedge right now, in my opinion. I just talked about that concentration.
7:59It goes both ways. Yeah. Buy the cues. Is that the lesson? Well, look, I think that, you know, there's a fascinating conversation because every semiconductor playbook that you have historically say sell the stocks here. That's why it trades at five times right now. So I think there's a lot of skepticism. And I think you have to look at, like, what the driver of the driver is, which is what? Agentic AI and the consumption on the demand. And so demand is really inflecting. I think you see it in a lot of the data. And then meanwhile, supply is really constrained. Like, so I think you have, you know, some cards to play that are, like, suggesting of the bull case.
8:28But, of course, you always have to, like, be aware of the down cycle. I also want to come back around later to what Mike Run said tonight about humanoid robots and the amount of memory those take relative to an L2 vehicle, let's say. But we got some breaking news out of the White House tonight. Let's get Damon Jarry's with that. Hey, Damon. Yeah, that's right. We just heard from President Trump here in the Oval Office. A short availability with reporters in which he was sharply critical of the big oil companies. He singled out Exxon, Chevron, BP, Shell and others. and he said they are responsible for the gas prices at the pump not coming down fast enough for Americans.
9:02He said he thinks gas at the pump should be about$2.25 a gallon. He said that despite the progress he's made in negotiating an end to the war in Iran and the flow of oil resuming from the Strait of Hormuz, he's been frustrated with what he sees as a slow-moving gas industry in lowering prices at the pump for American voters. So he continued to hammer that theme. He also said that he's going to not sign this housing bill. This is a threat that he made earlier today. Not sign it until the Senate takes up the SAVE Act, which is an electioneering bill that he wants to see passed up on Capitol Hill.
9:38The problem with that is that the housing bill passed with pretty large bipartisan support. The SAVE bill doesn't have the votes to pass. The president is demanding that the Senate take up the bill he favors or he's going to hold back the bill that they favor. He said, ultimately, nothing in the housing bill is all that relevant. The key to housing is interest rates. He wants interest rates to come down. And one other note, guys, we're seeing now some of the defense industry CEOs arriving here at the White House just within the past half hour or so for a meeting that we think is about to get underway here behind closed doors at the White House between the president and the defense sector.
10:17The president has been sharply critical of the defense sector in recent weeks. He has said that they're not moving fast enough to produce munitions. The White House maintains that there is no lack of supply of military munitions after the war in Iran. But nonetheless, they would like to see the speed and the quantity of munition production increase. That's what the president is likely to say to the defense sector here behind closed doors any minute now, guys. Back over to you. Long day for the president. And as you said, Damon, defense, oil and gas and housing, all with some policy crosswinds today.
10:50Thanks. Eamon Javers. Big banks passing the latest Fed stress test today in just minutes after a host of the biggies announced some div hikes and others. Leslie Pickers got some details. Hi, Leslie. Hey, Carl. Yeah, Morgan Stanley raising its dividend by 15 percent to$1.15 per share. Goldman Sachs intends to boost its dividend by 11 percent to$5 per share. and J.P. Morgan bumping its dividend up by 10 % to$1.65 per share and authorizing a new$50 billion buyback program beginning July 1. The dividend hikes are subject to each board's approval in the third quarter. And to your point, CQ, these announcements come after the Fed's stress test, which found that all 32 banks remained above their minimum requirements against the hypothetical recessionary scenario.
11:35The firms absorbed more than$708 billion in total losses and capital declined only about 1.6 percentage points in aggregate. You could see that relative to history there. However, this year's results won't impact the bank's required capital levels because in February, the Fed voted to maintain the current requirements at each bank until 2027 when the new rules, these reformed rules, can be calculated based on public feedback. The test itself was pretty similar to the one from last year. This year's included a hypothetical global recession with an unemployment rate peaking at 10 percent and a 39 percent and 30 percent decline in commercial real estate and housing prices, respectively, Carl.
12:17Leslie, thanks so much. Let's trade some of those. Guy, you impressed with the way financials have shaved some year-to-date losses? Yeah, I am. We've been if you watch this show, Citibank's been a name we've been talking about. You know, we made the math problem. One hundred fifty dollar stock. It basically has traded over the last couple of days. Is J.P. Morgan at an all-time high? This is sort of, if you think about what J.P. Morgan just said,$50 billion stock buyback. Jamie Dimon has made the point on a number of times how expensive he thought his own stock was. But like the market, you know, we get that it's expensive.
12:45We also understand we've got to be in the game. And that's what you see anecdotal with this. Yeah, the banks have traded well. I think they're as well capitalized as probably they've been in 25 or 30 years. The question comes down to, you know, what environment are we about to find ourselves in? And I don't know the answer. I thought it was a slowing environment. I thought it was a higher unemployment environment. That does not appear to be the case right now. Carter, favorites on your front regarding financials. And I mean, we're going into some of these earnings in a few weeks. Will this be a classic moving into those prints hot?
13:15Yeah. Well, one thing, the post-market reaction in some of these names is not particularly encouraging. But here's the main thing. It's Goldman and Morgan Stanley that have really taken off in a big way, the sort of two leading investment bank and brokerage. And J.P. Morgan right now is treating it a 15-year relative low to each stock. I like J.P. Morgan. I would do that as a pair. J.P. Morgan long, Goldman, and Morgan Stanley short. Yeah, Carter had a nice call yesterday from a technical perspective, you know, take some profits, take measures in the Goldman and the Morgan. I just find it fascinating that Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs, for that matter, Morgan was up 50 % at its highs just a couple days ago from its March lows.
13:56When you think about that, in an investment bank like this, if you're getting that geeked up about being a co-lead on the SpaceX IPO, they compressed fees. I mean, it was absolutely amazing. I mean, it was almost a rounding error that a lot of these banks made in their revenues for Q2. And so I just don't get it. I mean, the chances of getting both Anthropic and OpenAI in Q3, to me, aren't particularly high. So if you're buying these stocks up here on this massive, massive run in the last few months, I just don't think that makes a whole heck of a lot of sense here. Yeah, Goldman holding$1 ,000 pretty easily here.
14:30Let's get to Bitcoin today, breaking below$60K, as you may know, hitting the lowest level since October of 2024. It's the third time this year the crypto has traded under the$60 ,000 mark. Crypto link stocks falling in kind. Strategy now down over 9%, roughly 80 % off the all-time highs it hit in the fall of 2024. for Robinhood, Coinbase, and Mara Holdings also sharply lower. You got some thoughts on what's happening if they're trying to press strategy in particular on this front? Yeah, I mean, I've been watching Bitcoin and crypto, and it's just been interesting because I think that in terms of risk assets, a lot of capital is just flowing into the AI trade, right, infrastructure, and this is on the opposite side.
15:05And I think, you know, I think on, you know, strategy, there probably are some bears out there that are confused by, you know, micro strategies that could kind of highly buy or sell Bitcoin, you know. So I'm just kind of on the sidelines here. But to me, there's clear fundamental strength elsewhere. Yeah. You know, one of the things that has been lurking here as the price has acted so poorly, we had tons and tons of catalysts over the last couple of years. New administration was going to be regulatory. It's going to be ETFs. It was going to be a whole host of other things in the background, though, you have these treasury strategies.
15:34They just haven't proven to add any value to, you know, the underlying asset. Right. And the underlying utility of this blockchain in general, if you're talking about Bitcoin. I mean, Web3 never materialized. DeFi is not really materializing. If you have a view that, you know, some of these blockchains that have just gotten cut in half in the last few months are going to be the backbone of this DeFi boom, well, it's not happening, right? And so at the end of the day, I look at these treasury companies that are meant to do something that I don't think they're meaning to do because all of these companies have basically seen the value of the asset that they're buying with leverage cut in half.
16:10And I don't know how you get, how do you get whole in that once again? The enthusiasts will say we've seen moves like this a number of times before peak the trough. And that is factually true. I think it's a different backdrop now. I think this hawkish Fed is doing nothing to help the price of Bitcoin. And what I've said for a while, we had Anthony Scaramucci on a week and a half or so ago. I made the point that I think the market is shooting against micro strategy or strategy now in terms of what their holdings are and the average price. He countered saying that they were positioned for that.
16:39But it's clear the market is up to something else right now. And just technically, and Carter's brought this up, it does not trade well. It appears as though low 50 ,000s are in the cards here. Yeah, and Carter, I'm sure, I mean, we're putting up strategy here, but the preferreds got a lot of eyeballs today in their intraday action. Yeah, I mean, it's a testament to relative strength, right? The good relative strength in semis, it was the same in precious metals until it isn't, or oil until it isn't. And this is relative strength momentum to the downside. Respect it. Stay away. Thanks, guys. It's coming up, a homebuilder's strong foundation as KB Home surges after results.
17:16We'll get details from that quarter and the impact on the sector after the president cancels the signing of that landmark housing bill. And there's the China tech wreck. If there's any bounce in store for BABA as K-Web hits some fresh 52-week lows, don't go anywhere. Fast Money is back in two.
17:34You're watching Fast Money here on CNBC. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Fast Money. The housing sector surging today despite the president's canceling of that bipartisan housing bill signing, which was meant to improve affordability. Just in the last hour saying interest rates need to come down. Builders all rallying as the expectation is the bill will become law within 10 days. KB was the best performer of the group after beating on earnings this week. While home improvement names like William Sonoma, Depot and Lowe's all popped today as well. KB, Carter, it's about a three-month high. They really didn't give up any gains after the president canceled that signing.
18:13No, and as you say, derivative names, Mohawk, you know, people in the carpet business and paint and all sorts of things. It's very thematic. What is interesting is that this housing-related theme was exhibiting particularly good price action over the past three, four sessions before this pop, meaning as the market was pulling in no weakness at all in any of these names. And now some news related strength sort of confirming, if you will, the positive behavior over the prior, again, four or five sessions. New homes, though, were a disappointment. We talked to TriPoint this morning on Squawk on the Street.
18:52They didn't think this bill was going to be a panacea for supply. No, and it's and it will not or it won't. And the housing numbers were bad. But, you know, sometimes bad news is good news. And it's funny. The president obviously wants lower rates, which I understand. Somewhat counterintuitively, this hawkish Fed might be providing him with exactly what he needs, because if you look, tenure yields have actually sort of backed off since Kevin Warsh has been talking tough. And I think that could potentially continue. So I say leave well enough alone on the Fed front. I'll say this quickly about Home Depot.
19:22Stockton made its all time high in the fall of 2024. Think about that in a market at all time high. Carter will look at this and say, we're about to break a downtrend that's been in place since the fall of 2025. And you had one of the biggest single day moves to the upside today on decent volume. So Home Depot might be very interesting here. Yeah. You know, on the 30-year fixed, you know, it hasn't come in a whole heck of a lot. I think we had about a 7 % number, maybe about a year ago, and it kind of banged around up there. But we are at like 6.58 % right now. So if you're talking about getting a little relief on affordability on a day that saw the tenure, as Guy just mentioned, come in 10 basis points.
19:56I mean, that's a big move. I mean, you know, and I would have thought that that would have given a little gusto. You know, you had that crude oil move, which is massive. And I got to tell you, mea culpa, I thought yesterday on the show, I just thought that crude probably has a floor in the mid-70s. And to take that premium out, man, oof, that was kind of nasty today. So we crude and, you know, the tenure coming in 10 basis points and then having a lot of these sort of cyclical spots like the home builders move like this, I would have expected the S &P to be acting a lot better. Yeah, given what yields did today.
20:26That is interesting. We've got some more news on the banks. Leslie Picker's been watching it all afternoon. Hey, Leslie. Hey, Carl. Yeah, we got a first look at a statement from Bank of America Chair and CEO Brian Moynihan before it's released more broadly. The firm will say that they remain committed to delivering for our shareholders and will make their next quarterly common stock dividend announcement following the July board meeting. They have basically increased the dividend every July over the last 10 years. So kind of based on that cadence, they plan to make any kind of announcement at that time as opposed to post the Fed stress test results, which, of course, as we've been talking about, maintained current capital levels.
21:10So there wasn't too much in the way of surprises there. So Bank of America opting to follow kind of their normal cadence to make those dividend announcements in July. Send it back to you. Really quick, Leslie, are we arguing tonight that JPM has the most aggressive news on capital returns? I think that's right with the buyback plan of$50 billion. I mean, in terms of percentage, based on the ones that we've been studying, BNY had the biggest hike for its dividend of 19%. But in terms of absolute buybacks,$50 billion, pretty significant. Morgan Stanley's of$20 billion for reauthorization there, also significant.
21:47So more what we've seen on the dividend side, hiking dividends than actual buyback programs. But J.P. Morgan and Morgan Stanley, kind of the outliers there. Leslie, thanks. When we come back, more trouble for China tech. Alibaba pacing for its worst month in more than three years. How our traders are positioning in the mainland moves still ahead. You're watching Fast Money live from the Nasdaq market site in Times Square right back after this.
22:19Welcome back to Fast Money. Alibaba dropping nearly 3 percent today after Anthropik said in a letter to Congress, the company illicitly accessed its clawed AI model using thousands of fraudulent accounts. This adds to pressure on the China tech giant, which is now on a seven-day losing streak on pace for a seventh straight losing week as well. The broader China tech trade also feeling the pinch. K-Web ETF trading at more than a two-year low. Tony, what is going on here? I know you guys are all watching this one. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that distilling the model has become a really important point because if you don't have the GPU compute or the AI infrastructure, you're trying to copy like 80 % of the value of these frontier models with 10 % of the cost.
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23:00So I think that's what's going on. And so I think it's important that Anthropica is able to protect their model and make sure they stay ahead. So in my opinion, it's definitely not great, but it just shows like how far ahead Anthropic is. Yeah, the distillation, I mean, that was really what the DeepSeq moment was in January 25, right? All of a sudden you had this model that was open source and that was supposedly created on like a fraction of what, you know, ChatGPT and Claude were built on. But that's coming to a theater near you. I mean, this announcement or maybe the speculation that Microsoft's going to put, you know, DeepSeq's R4 reasoning model into Copilot.
23:34I mean, this just compresses. There's so much about the ecosystem from, you know, the economics of the ecosystem in many ways. And I feel like we haven't even scratched the surface on that. So, again, I can see why Anthropic or OpenAI wants to get really aggressive with these Chinese models. Because Quinn, for instance, at Baba, they are exporting that to the world. Right. And this is going to be a digital belt and road. So at the end of the day, our guys are beating themselves on the, you know, I don't know, head with each other, spending hundreds of billions of dollars. And the Chinese are pushing out models that are 80 percent as good and really leveraging off our existing models in the spend over here.
24:08You need a bad guy, right? And so what is it? If Anthropic was that much of a lead, you don't necessarily need one. But the fact that they are lashing out this way and saying they're stealing our technology, I think that's somewhat problematic. Now, obviously, Alibaba trades awfully here. I mean, below 100, I never saw that coming. Not that it matters, but I think the average price target is about 190. My instinct suggests you can start hearing Alibaba talk about a stock buyback, maybe accelerated. It's dirt cheap here. I think analysts will start to realize that as well. Carter, it's not like Chinese equities are having a heyday overall, at least in Hong Kong.
24:42No, I mean, you know, it's again, and this was such an encouraging area, developing well, coming off the 2022 bear market lows, outperforming almost all other bourses in 23, 24, work. And even into 25 and now complete collapse, I would get out, take measures. Just don't fool around. Still to come, the next move in stocks, rates, oil and more. Ben Eamons of FedWatch Advisor is going to join us, talk about where he sees markets heading and why he says rate hike odds are mispriced. That's next when Fast Money returns. Missed a moment of fast? Catch us anytime on the go. Follow the Fast Money podcast.
25:24We're back right after this.
25:36Welcome back to Fast Money. Stocks closing mixed with the S &P and NASDAQ. Unable to hold on to some early gains, both closing lower. The NASDAQ down nearly half a percent. Dow with a small gain up 184. Digital payment stocks jumping today. Affirm, Toast, Shift 4 payments, all some solid gains. a firm hitting its highest level since January. Let's turn to the markets, though. Ben Ammons is founder and chief investment officer at FedWatch Advisors. He joins us here at the desk to talk about some rate risk. You think, Ben, you think the Fed's on hold, basically, yeah? Yeah, I think they are, Carl, because, you know, just take oil prices, right, what's happening.
26:09We're almost back to where we came from. So this will start impacting inflation as of next month. And if you really look back at what happened with expectations, starting with Waller by getting worried about the war and that prolongs and all that. Then the doplot shift. So it's really within the fact that people were worried about the conflict. Well, it's just the conflict has now ended. Now, I have another idea on this is that yesterday, the Senate basically passed a war resolution. I think today yields a responding party to that because we're just not going to see this war anymore. So you're getting more and more oil price decline.
26:46And it looks to me that at least the July probability, which is, I think, still something like 35 percent, that's to me mispriced. If you think further out, it should actually be two, because this Fed is not going to really hike rates, not going to slam the brakes, particularly if inflation starts to moderate. So you think we can look past maybe a hot PCE tomorrow? I think we can. We know that that number will be hot, as you say. It's 4 percent or more. That's the projection. You plug that into one of these models to fetch actually be hiking by 100 basis points. But there are real-time data out there, too, that actually point the opposite direction on Corp.
27:19BCE, that the Fed actually should potentially be cutting. Now, I don't think the Fed will be cutting. That's not really the case. So the Fed is sort of at a point where it says stay on hold. I guess Worsh will try to have some sort of compromise in the July meeting about this balance sheet, maybe starting with that first if they need to lean against inflation. They feel so strong about it. I made a point earlier that might be counterintuitive, but a hawkish Fed might be the best thing that's happened to the bond market in quite some time. So, you know, speak softly, carry a big stick. He's carrying that big stick, but he's not going to use it.
27:51And the market's doing the Fed cuts for the rate cuts for him in an odd way. Yeah, they are. And that's right, Guy. Typically, when the Fed gets hawkish, the yield curve starts to flatten. Right. And as in the 10 and the 30, you'll go down a bit more than the two year yields. Really, because I think the market sense is like you're not going to do anything. You're not going to surprise us. You're not going to come out with a whole series of hikes because that's the steepening. But as you lean against inflation with language, the idea is that then the dollar strengthened and then commodity prices start to soften and oil prices.
28:23And that would take out the risk of inflation out of yields. That's kind of what's happening right now. It does sound like you think maybe the biggest back half risk are the midterms. Yeah, that would be the case, because, you know, that's I think maybe as of July, August, that they'll get investors minds. Right. Because this this war, this conflict has changed people's mind about where we are and what's going on. Not to be political, but like it is a risk. I'd say if the House and the Senate were to flip to to Democrat, what would this mean for the economy? I mean, there's going to be a lot of debate about this.
28:56It may be a little early to have a scenario on this exactly. But if you think about where we are currently with deregulation, tax costs, all that type of stuff, that could change, right? And that's, I think, the next risk for the market. Yeah. What do you think about the dollar here? It just kind of broke out of this range. And, you know, what's interesting to me is that you have the dollar going one way and you've got yields going the other way. And that's not something we've gotten too accustomed to. And then gold has just kind of fallen out of bed. But I'm just curious, like, has the dollar got some room to run?
29:22It could have, Dan. And I think the talk in the FX market is that we got dollar yen at an intervention level, sort of. There's a lot of chatter, but it's not happened yet. I don't know when, but I do think the other side of that is the basement idea that we had earlier this year or last year. That's maybe getting a little bit out of this because people do perceive the worst Fed to be tighter, more hawkish. And just that itself lifts the dollar. But then also, if inflation starts to decline, the real interest rate, so the rate of counterinflation is a bit rising, which pushes the dollar up also.
29:58And I think lastly is that as this conflict has ended and gas prices start to decline, economy gets a boost. It's likely the case. So dollar will strengthen. So you have a bit of the dollar smile working here, right? So I think dollar will have some room to run, except against the yen. We'll have to see what happens there. I don't know when, but I do think they will do something because it's just got too weak at this point. Is there a case that war ends, and as you say, re-escalation, unlikely, but in that picking up speed, inflation gets more entrenched? I don't know. I mean, even in Supercore or services or something?
30:32So services is interesting. If you think today about what's happening with Micron and this whole DRAM, I was looking at that today, and it's in the services component of PCE. So that's the underlying sort of pressure that's there in addition to just services itself, which is right, Carl. Like if the economy starts to accelerate, yeah, services, inflation will go higher. Whereas goods inflation can maybe moderate a bit more. So the conflict eases and the supply chain eases, right? So net-net, I think there will be inflationary pressure, which keeps this Fed on a hawkish hold, but not this slamming the brakes that we saw in 2022.
31:08Real quick, go back to Japan. 162, basically, dollar yen, the highest level we've seen probably in 40 years. That's against a backdrop of oil going lower, which should be bullish for their currency. It's not. Bond yields going higher, which it's what's going on. Like you just said something's got to give. The last time it gave was the summer of 24, I believe, in July. When Dow Yen went from 160 to 153. And we had a huge event here in the equity market. Yeah, that's maybe lurking again. You know, that event was about BOJ indicating they're going to hike more. and then suddenly people realize, okay, this may strengthen the yen.
31:45But when you do intervention, that's kind of a game playing with the FX market. Typically, when you intervene, it works temporarily, and then the market comes right back away of the intervention level. So I'm not sure if that's going to be effective, but they have made a lot of chatter about doing something about the yen. The minutes from the BOJ yesterday also indicated that they want to hike more from here. So I think yen is a little bit caught in a spiral of like, If you're going to hike, and even if oil prices are lower, but hiking means weaker economy, means weaker currency. You've got to be in that sort of circle.
32:16And I think that's what we have to watch here. Because if yen cannot really strengthen much, then it's going to continue to spiral, and that's going to keep pushing up yields higher. So I think the deviation between Treasury yields and yen is to be watched here. Because typically, when Treasury yields go lower, yen follows. That relationship seems to be broken down. We'll see what we get tomorrow. Thanks, as always. Good to see you, Ben Evans. Good to see you. Shares of Qualcomm surging after hours on the back of this updated financial target. Christina Partsinevolos is back with us watching some of those details.
32:47Hey, KP. Hi, Carl Gunn. Well, Qualcomm is definitely making the case that it's no longer just a smartphone chip firm, but a full stack AI company. And the new targets seem to be backing that up, or that's what the market thinks. You have management now saying non-handset revenue. So non-smartphone revenue will be$40 billion by 2029, nearly double what it projected just two years ago. The biggest new piece is data center revenue, which didn't even exist in the last forecast, now targeting roughly$15 billion by fiscal 2029. So I was able to catch up with the CEO, Cristiano Aman, for a second time, and I was able to ask him specifically, how can he can secure all of that capacity to make those chips?
33:25Listen in. So when I say I have now$5 billion of revenue projected for fiscal 27 with those customers for that$5 billion, I have secured the capacity from the manufacturer as well as memory. I also have memory for what we do in the accelerator. So we're excited about that. And I think, you know, we're very confident in the forecast we're provided. Does that mean that you're signing long term agreements with we always? We always do that. Given our scale, I think if you look through our history, just the past few years, we have been doing long-term agreements both with customers as well on the supply side.
34:10So that comment really plays into Micron's earnings and that capacity was secured at TSMC. But the message to investors is that this diversification is just happening way faster than expected, guys. Christina, thanks so much for that. Tony, a lot of ink's been spilled about Qualcomm and sort of shedding that mobile Scarlet A over the past couple of months. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I also think it's been, you know, a long-term play for them. They've been working on data center for multiple years now and, like, diversifying. So it's great to see it's coming to fruition. I would say one is that the inference market is going to be more heterogeneous.
34:42And so I think they're going to have a play. And then they're also really focused on low power, right, and power is becoming a real constraint. You know, in addition, I think that the market is just growing so much. And if you have the wafer supply at TSMC, which they do, I think that they are well positioned. You think they'll be as acquisitive as they have been lately? You know, I don't want to comment on that, but I do think that overall, like, you need more of the system solution, right? So the more pieces you have, you know, the networking, compute, memory, the better. And so it's really like trending to the more that you have, probably the better.
35:14Yeah, that's quite a move after hours. So, Tony, we've got RPOs, we've got LTAs, we've got all this stuff. And you've got some of these companies like Qualcomm who just missed, you know, huge computing sort of shifts, right, over the last 20 years. And to Carl's point, I love that, the mobile Scarlet A, that's good stuff. You know, like, what would your, as a PM, like, what is your confidence that they're going to be able to execute, secure that, you know, kind of capacity from Taiwan Semi? Aren't there a lot of moving parts for a company that really hasn't demonstrated they're going to be able to do this?
35:42Well, I do think that they have really key technology, right? I mean, they've been around for a long time. I mean, they're one of the biggest customers at TSMC. So I think that's in the bag. And then they have been doing this for multiple years trying to get into the data center. And I think that you're really meeting to them at this inflection point of a Gentic and a demand inflection. And most importantly, I think that's that inferencing capability. Carl dropping some Hawthorne, man. Little Hester Pratt. Oh, Nathaniel. I mean, that doesn't happen at all at all. 10th grade AP English. Nailed it.
36:13When we come back, gold losing its luster, as you know, the metal briefly dipping below 4K for the first time since November. What the Chartmasters sees in store for that safe haven trade when Fast Money comes back.
36:29Welcome back to Fast Money. It's been a rough day for gold. The yellow metal briefly below 4K for the first time since November and now down 12 % since the beginning of June, 24 % since the Iran war began. And the chart master saying it might be time to start covering some shorts. Carter, what are you seeing? Yeah, before I look at the charts, I mean, I think it's the concept that matters. If one were to just search for the usage of the phrase buy gold or gold or precious metals, it's collapsed. Just as guess what? So is Mag 7. And what's popular in usage in print, Wall Street reports, media is semiconductors.
37:02They're cycles. And so this was loved and now it's hated. Just as oil was loved and now it's hated. And software was loved, and now it's hated. Guess what? We know there are extremes. You overshoot, you undershoot. This gold is down now some 30%. Let's look at two charts. And at this point, I think you just play for a bounce. We've come down over a four-month period. Now, it's just about sequencing. Look at the second and final chart. We've breached this trend line that's been in effect for the better part of three years, ever so slightly. So I think for those who have the dexterity and nimbleness to do it, it's a trade playing for a bounce.
37:43This is literally being laughed at just as it was being scooped up with joy in January. Remember when folks were going to Costco, Guy? They still are. Yeah. They were selling out in like a week. Listen, I get why the gold market's done well. I didn't think we'd get here. We're through the 200-day moving average. I say a hawkish Fed, obviously a strengthening dollar. There was talk earlier in the war that some central banks in the Middle East were selling gold. I have no validation or verification of that. What I will tell you, though, the reasons that I'm still bullish gold have not gone away.
38:19They've had some headwinds for sure, but those headwinds will abate. I'm with Carter on this one. Carter, really quick, we say the same thing about silver, or is that more of an industrial use case dynamic? Obviously, very high correlation, Carl, as you know, 90 plus percent. So it's the same dynamic with beta. And so I would do the same thing, just be contrarian here and play for a bounce. All right. Still to come, a half-price pickup, the bare-bones electric vehicle that's hitting the road. And if the lowest-priced truck in the U.S. can recharge consumer interest in EVs, when Fast is back in two.
39:00Welcome back to Fast Money. EV startup Slate Auto officially opening pre-orders today for their blank slate electric pickup truck. Company deems the truck the most affordable in America as the starting price is around$25K. Here with more details is our Phil LeBeau. Hi again, Phil. Hey, Carl. They are correct that it is the lowest priced pickup truck in the country, also the lowest priced electric vehicle in the country. The official pricing, which was announced today by Slate, the base pickup truck coming in at just under$25 ,000. You can get an SUV, square-back SUV, with the seats in the back for$29 ,950, and then there's the fast-back SUV for just under$32 ,000.
39:38The whole idea here is you buy the base, and then it's up to you to outfit it how you like it, from the wheels to the roof rack to what's on the interior. The CEO tells us that he expects it to be about$5 ,000 per vehicle that the average customer spends outfitting their Slate vehicle. So what's the game plan for this company? Well, it's audacious to say the least because many of the vehicle startup companies in recent years have failed. Their first deliveries are going to start in Q4. Gross margin positive per vehicle right off the bat. Easy to see why, because the costs are so low. That's how they can afford to charge a lower price.
40:17The target, cash flow positive by next year. By the way, as you take a look at the average transaction price for a vehicle, right now in this country, it's just under$50 ,000. But the average price for a pickup truck in this country,$55 ,000. The interesting thing is you take a look at Ford, GM, Stellantis, and Toyota. They're the largest pickup truck manufacturers in this country. None of them manufacture a two-door pickup truck. So, guys, that's one of the challenges that Slate is going to face. How many people are going to want to buy this? Yes, that price will entice people, but it's a two-door truck or a two-door SUV, which is going to be a challenge there.
40:56And then the other challenge is, look, the used market is loaded with pickup trucks and SUVs that are not selling at$50 ,000. They're selling for a lot less. And that's going to be the competition for Slate. We'll see how they do. They've got about 180 ,000 orders. We'll see how many of those actually convert from reservations into actual orders. That's a really interesting story, Phil. But, you know, it's not just the list price, guys. There's maintenance, repairs on EVs are expensive, and then depreciation. It's kind of fierce, too. I feel bad saying this because, you know, an entrepreneur going out there, making his car, trying to do the thing that Elon wanted to do for a very long time.
41:34It has to be a piece of junk. I mean, let's just be honest. No, I'm being serious. I don't think that's appropriate. All you have to do is go look at a Model 3 that, you know, retails for like$36 ,000 or something like that. And they're horrible. There's nothing in them, you know. So I just feel bad. The EV business is really brutal right now. So I'm sorry about that. I hope you succeed. I mean that. Well, get it. It's time for a test drive when we get one. We'll definitely go on the road. Up next, some final trades.
42:12Let's get some final trades, Carter. Firm Holdings, the digital commerce site. We like it long. A-F-R-M. Tony? Semiconductor Sox. I like it. Long term. Yeah, as I said earlier, yesterday, horrible call in oil. But I do think 70 is probably the level that's today. For Maiden Voyage, Tony did very well. Great. Right or wrong. Great. And it's great having CQ here. I mean, I mean, honestly, got the brains, got the looks. It was it was awesome. But Carl's royalty gets mad at me, but he is. Chevron, Carl. I love it. Always fun, guys. Thanks. Thanks for watching Fast Money. Mad Money starts now.
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