Tech Bounces Back… And SpaceX Joins the Nasdaq 100 on Fast Track 7/6/26

16:41Kroger also under pressure, Costco under pressure. So whether it's just a defensive kind of thing, but yet Koch is also same sector and is making new highs. So I think it is idiosyncratic. I would be short these names.

16:52Tim Seymour:All right. Let's turn back to the moves in big tech. Let's bring in hedge fund manager Dan Niles of Niles Investment Management. Dan was a semiconductor and computer hardware analyst during the dot-com bubble. Very famous one, in fact. Dan, great to have you with us. Great to be on, Melissa. You do point out that there is a seasonality impact here, at least through the beginning part of July. But what are you anticipating as we go into earnings season? Do you expect that, you know, memory could come under pressure, that maybe hyperscalers could resume some sort of an uptrend? So a couple of things.

17:27We're probably going to get a pretty good hint tomorrow because Samsung is going to report tonight. And they're obviously one of the big three. It's Samsung, Hynex, and Micron. And their profits should be up almost 18x year over year when they report. And so we'll see how the market responds to that tomorrow, because the Korean stock market, it's up 90 % year to date. And that's being driven by Samsung and Hynex, which are roughly half of that index. And so that's going to give you your first kind of read into this. The second one is SK Hynix goes out with a massive IPO or listing in the US, I should say, not IPO on Friday.

18:05And so that'll give you another data point of now you don't just have to own Micron, you can actually own Hynix as well. And so that's going to give you one more. And then along with SpaceX, you know, how does that react to being finally, this is the last ad for a while being added to the NASDAQ 100. If you're asking longer term, I just go back to one simple thing. You've gone from token been maxing in March to now people trying to control their AI bills. And there's a great post by Brian Armstrong, CEO of Coinbase, where then this was, I think, June 26th or so. And he puts out this post showing how token usage of Coinbase continues to go up, but he's cut his AI spend by almost 50%, 5-0.

18:50And a lot of companies are going through this, and that includes Meta, Microsoft, Uber, etc., where they're trying to get their AI bills under control. So I'm wondering which of the three big hyperscalers ends up guiding below forecasts for September after reporting a huge June because of that. So when they start to report, that's when I'm going to go back to being pretty cautious on the guidance.

19:16Melissa Lee:Hey, Dan, Mel just called you a famous Internet analyst in the dot-com boom. I was there. You were famous, bud. But, you know, you made some big calls. You put your neck out there. And, you know, when I look at what's going on in memory and I think about in market cap terms and how much these stocks are up and where, let's say, the Nasdaq or Korea's, you know, index is the cost fee is. And I say to myself, well, NVIDIA is a greater market cap than probably the top 10 names combined in the memory space. And you look at this sort of price action. It is driving a lot of sentiment as far as tech investors are concerned.

19:48Melissa Lee:Does that trouble you that you're seeing a pocket of these names globally, okay, relative to some of the names here in the U.S. that are actually, like, they're really driving the train? And I'm just curious. Does that make sense to you? And I'm just curious how you're thinking about that. Well, I look at NVIDIA and I go, they're under assault from a bunch of different areas, right? You've got Google, Amazon, Meta. You had an announcement that Anthropics looking at Samsung to produce their own chip. And so they're getting pushed around by all of that news flow. Also, don't forget the big one. With Agentec AI, which you could argue showed up in January with the formalization of OpenClaw on January 30th, you move from eight GPUs to one CPU to something closer to four-to-one or one-to-one, which really benefits the legacy microprocessor vendors who were sort of left for dead up until very recently when that ratio switched back.

20:44So I think it's, to your point, I think it's very company specific where you kind of have to go through the names one by one and go, okay, these guys benefit in this regime shift. These guys don't. And the one thing with memory, don't forget, is that this new architecture coming out and Gentic, Vera Rubin takes at a minimum like three and a half times more memory than the Blackwell generation did. Now, that's just started to ramp. Obviously, there's talk about that getting pushed back. And so those are all things I'm watching right now. And this is not a sell-off. I mean, if you go back to 1995 or 97, you had 50 % drawdowns in the socks.

21:29And it finished that whole climb from the end of 94 to March up 850%. You look more recently, I think at the beginning of or middle of 2025, the semiconductor index went down 40 percent, 4-0 in a drawdown. So this is minor. That's why I'm very curious to see how Samsung and the memory stocks trade tomorrow after Samsung reports tonight and then Hynex on Friday. What does that do to the space?

21:57Melissa Lee:Real quick, Dan, you know, Steve mentioned return on invested capital. When do the companies, listen, we know what's going on with Mike Reynolds, other companies, but the companies that are spending the lion's share, when do they need to start to show that return before people, the market starts to get concerned? I think that's every quarter. It's a great comment, Steve. And that's why I kind of go back to what happens if Google, Amazon, Microsoft, they guide to less than expected growth for the September quarter. They're going to all have huge June numbers because that was token maximization.

22:30Now you've got Coinbase trying to cut their bill in half. That's a very different environment. And so I think your point is the one that everybody's trying to get their arms around. And don't forget, you've now got one competitor that's been added to this, which is SpaceX, right? Don't forget, they signed a$11 billion deal with Google, a$16 billion deal with Anthropic, a$4 billion deal with Cursor. You could argue those are, you know, all deals that could have, reflection AI, let's not forget that one, that could have gone to other players potentially. And then obviously you have meta compute coming out at some point.

23:07That won't affect demand near term. But it's something you have to think about when you're, to your point, looking at return on invested capital, which is ultimately the thing that matters along with cash flow.

23:17Tim Seymour:Dan, always great to speak with you. Thank you. Thank you. Dan Niles. Coming up, high energy trading. Shares of Valero trading your records. Now that's how that stock is bucking the trend of crumbling crude prices next. Plus the toll of token maxing, the growing backlash over climbing costs, and how it could be fueling the recent software surge. Don't go anywhere fast when he's back in two.

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25:10Tim Seymour:Welcome back to Fast Money. Shares of Valero Energy closing at a record, rising a percent today, bringing its gains for the year to over 66 percent. It is the energy sector's best performing stock in that time frame. The move coming even as crude continues its recent slide, WTI down nearly 25 percent over the past month, settling at its lowest close since the Iran war started. What's your take on the slide? Yes. So when you look at a refiner, a refiner always makes bigger chunks of cash on the crack spread. What their cost of a product that they have coming in, barrel of oil, and then the refined product going out.

25:45Biggest spread is the refined products, sticky in price. The price of oil very, very easily can go up and down very, very quickly. Large integrated names are priced on the barrel of oil. Refiners priced on the crack spread. If you're going to invest in energy, refiners are the place to do it, and it's a very direct play. Valero is probably the cleanest way to play this.

26:09Melissa Lee:There are other names as well. Valero, Steve's talked about for sure. Marathon Petroleum, MPC, that's right around an all-time high. So these downstream plays continue to work. So what we have said, I think, pretty consistently, crude can do what it wants to do, but there's certain names that are going to win in this environment. Those are a couple of them.

26:25Tim Seymour:Do the refiners look good in your book, Carter? Well, I mean, again, they're the equal and opposite of the big integrates and the cyclical names, the drillers. So Phillips 66, PSX, Valero, good versus the others. But here's the question. Are they bad? Are they so bad, they're good. And I think we've reached that point. Again, just think how adored and loved and admired the energy stocks were as recently as May. There were reports printed on letterheads of major investment banks and brokerage firms that, one, if we don't clear this up by May or July, oil's going at 200, 170. And now, of course, it's all been abandoned.

27:04I think you take the road less traveled here, hold one's nose and buy into the sell-off in the big integrated and other energy-related stocks.

27:12Tim Seymour:I love it when Carter says so bad it's good. All the Carterisms. It makes you think.

27:19Melissa Lee:Well, every time Carter speaks, I think. By the way, did you mention last week on the 4th of July, which was Saturday, Carter, what's his middle name?

27:27Tim Seymour:Braxton.

27:28Melissa Lee:Well, there was a gentleman named Carter Braxton, one of the 56 signatories.

27:32Tim Seymour:What are the odds?

27:33Melissa Lee:On the Declaration of Independence.

27:35Tim Seymour:I know. It's amazing. It is amazing. And this is true. No, I'm not. Yes, it's true. Guy says lots of things like fun facts and may or may not. So-and-so is a big fan of the show, but this is actually something that's true. This is actually true. There's a lot more Fast Money to come. Here's what's coming up next. Rising backlash against token maxing. Why CEOs are sounding off on the increasing costs and how the fallout could boost another part of the tech trade. Plus, precious metal technicals, where the chart master sees gold heading next. and when prices could get back to record highs. You're watching Fast Money, live from the NASDAQ market side in Times Square.

28:16We're back right after this.

28:24It's smart to always have a few financial goals. And a really smart one you can set? Earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. Thursday, July 16th, CNBC Sport and Boardroom join Fanatics Fest for Game Plan. Groundbreaking ideas shaping the future of sports and entertainment. Request your invite at cnbcevents.com slash game plan.

29:07Tim Seymour:Welcome back to Fast Money. Palantir CEO Alex Karp calling out OpenAI and Anthropic in an interview on CNBC last week, criticizing their token models as costs around AI continue to rise. This as several companies seek to pivot to cheaper open source models. CNBC's Seema Modi's got more. Hey, Seema. Well, it was a pretty big interview, Melissa, with Alex Karp last week. And yes, it sparked a heated debate around the cost of tokens that he says, quote, created no value going as far as to say tokens impose a wealth tax on companies. He also criticized the Big AI Lab's closed source models, saying they can essentially steal proprietary information and replicate businesses.

29:46Union Square Ventures partner Michael Magnano says Karp's comments adds even more fuel to the transition to an open source model that enables enterprises to both save money and control their own destiny.

29:59Tim Seymour:Altimeter Capitals' Brad Gerstner this morning reiterating the urgent need for an American-built open-source alternative, especially as China narrows the gap. The challenge, of course, is open-source gives companies the ability to build their own model and protect their data, yes, but it also means companies have to own the entire stack, including security. That seems to be the big concern, Melissa. All right, Seema, thank you. Seema Modi, I think this is interesting, especially as there are reports that Microsoft could use DeepSeq or a version of DeepSeq to power its co-pilot co-work.

30:33Melissa Lee:Yeah, I mean, the co-pilot one is interesting. I mean, it's very different than what the AIP that Palantir offers, right? When you think about it, I mean, co-pilot is really to kind of help your, you know, your workflows and that sort of thing. When it comes to Palantir, the idea, the argument that they need an intermediary in some way, shape or form between the enterprise and then, let's say, the model maker for all the reasons that SEMA just mentioned, that makes sense. And, you know, when you talk about open source, you know, Jensen Wang had an opinion on this, if that surprises you guys, earlier this year.

31:03Melissa Lee:He said it's not going to be like one or the other. It's going to be both. And they're all going to do like sorts of different things. And I think the whole idea of token maxing really does play a big role in this. So at the end of the day, this is not going to be settled anytime soon. Meta is building an open source model. It doesn't seem to be getting a lot of steam, although they use it internally. It will be interesting to see what these huge platforms end up using for what purposes. Since we brought Palantir, let's talk about Palantir. I mean, if you remember back in February 25, the stock was a straight line higher.

31:33Melissa Lee:They could trade it at 115 or so, and a month and a half later, it was trading back down to$75. I mention that because we just traded down to that prior all-time high, almost in a straight line down 50 percent and seemingly have held. So they don't report until I think August 10th or something like that. But Palantir, if you're so inclined, understanding valuations don't make sense. The sell-off might have been enough.

31:54Tim Seymour:Nice chart work there. Let's see what the chart master says. Well, the charts are open to all. But just as guys characterize it, this is a long and protracted decline. I mean, the stock peaked above 200 in November and touching a low about 105 or thereabouts just last week. That's a major give back that resets the table. I would say those lows are good lows and I would be playing on the long side. If you compare the two charts, go to Snowflake, two totally different stories. Compare Snowflake to Palantir. And if you go back a couple of months, I think Palantir could have the same spike that Snowflake did.

32:36So watch that stock.

32:37Tim Seymour:Coming up, heavy metal technicals with the Chartmaster sees in store for gold prices as the safe haven trade tries to turn around a rough couple months. We are going to be penny when Fast Money returns. Missed a moment of fast? Catch us anytime on the go. Follow the Fast Money podcast. We're back right after this.

33:05Tim Seymour:Welcome back to Fast Money Stock. Starting the week in the green, the Dow jumping 156 points, closing at a fresh record and above 53 ,000 for the first time. The S &P up by three quarters of a percent and the Nasdaq leading the gains climbing more than a percent. SpaceX with a small loss today, closing above$160 a share. The stock officially being added to the Nasdaq 100 at today's close after being fast-tracked into the index. Mutual funds and ETFs, including the Triple Qs, will have to buy SpaceX stock to mirror the index's composition. Shares of Rivian dropping after hours. The EV maker filing to sell up to 75 million shares of Class A common stock.

33:41Tim Seymour:Meantime, is gold starting to shimmer again? The precious metal up more than 3 percent in the last week, but it's still down 20 percent since the start of the Iran war. So where does it go next? Who better to ask than the chartmaster Carter Braxton Awards? Carter, what do you see? Myers here. gold down 30 % from its peak, just as oil is. And at this point, I would characterize a mature intermediate decline. Let's go right to the charts. So the peak is Jan 29th, 5 ,600 ounce. And then five months later, we touched a low at the end of the quarter, June 30, below 4 ,000. Let's annotate this. So second chart, you can see well-defined trend lines.

34:19And we've responded to this uptrend line beautifully in a period where gold essentially tripled from 2 ,000 to almost 6 ,000 ounce. And so just to make that point, the next iteration, you'll see that we have responded to the penny. We have bounced off that uptrend line beautifully. And we are sitting here in the converging trend lines apex. So whether you want to call it a symmetrical triangle, a flag, a wedge, it doesn't matter. It represents a period of equilibrium. Which way is it resolved? Many are betting down. I think you bet up. Final chart, that arrow is a judgment. The final arrow, Others might put a red arrow.

34:54But again, it is a mature intermediate decline. Five months in the making, 30 percent duration, magnitude. And we're buyers here.

35:04Tim Seymour:How much of this has to do with the recent weakening we've seen in the dollar, Carter? Well, you wonder. I mean, again, the dollar over the last five years had a lot of zigs and zags and gold was doing its own thing. Right. So sometimes there is a relationship between currency and commodity, and sometimes not. I think this extreme move to the upside was on its own, of course, when we blew off up to 5 ,600. The 30 % sell-off is on its own, and this day-to-day action is more technical than anything else and not much to do with the dollar. All right.

35:38Melissa Lee:Guy, what do you think? Agreed. Hawkish Fed doesn't help. I'll say I mentioned Japan earlier. I mean, the yen, dollar-yen north of 162, probably the highest level we've seen in quite some time. You couple that with the fact that their bond market continues to deteriorate. I think all roads lead to gold. And if you look at GDX quickly, we traded down to the November lows, 71.5, 72. We're bouncing. I think you want to be long gold or GDX or both, but I think Carter is spot on. Yeah, GDX usually outperforms up and down 3 to 1 the GLD. And if you see the performance, it mirrors that. So if you think there's going to be a bounce, you should be buying the miners.

36:13Tim Seymour:Is that a correct call, Carter? GDX versus gold? No, I like them both. I think you're going to get a bounce in the underlying commodity, and you'll get some beta, of course, which you do with the operating companies. Agnico Eagle AM, the biggest or one of the biggest, Newmont, or just do, of course, GDX. Coming up, World Cup wagering. Prediction markets getting a big boost as bettors take the field, the staggering numbers and the surge, and who fans are putting their money on now. More Fast Money in, too.

36:52Tim Seymour:Welcome back to Fast Money. We are just hours away from kickoff in Team USA's round of 16 World Cup match against Belgium. According to Calci, odds of the Americans winning spiked notably on Sunday after a red card reversal allowed its top scorer to play tonight. It's just one example of the flurry of prediction market activity during this World Cup. Contessa Brewer is here with the details. Contessa. World Cup has become like a soap opera. This is as the world turns. Kalshi has just posted its most lucrative market ever. Who will win the finals of the World Cup has now surpassed a billion dollars in trading volume.

37:28And Kalshi, with whom CNBC has a commercial relationship, did more than five billion bucks in trading volume this weekend, setting new records fueled by soccer mania. That's 45 percent higher than last month when, you know, we were in the midst of NBA finals fervor. Poly market up 24 percent over last month. And, you know, that was just record after record after record. Sportsbooks now are also raking it in. Caesars says it set a trifecta of records in the England versus Mexico match last night. Most unique visitors, most number of bets on soccer ever, and most soccer handle. That's the amount of money wagered.

38:08Vandal says almost 90 % of the World Cup handle is coming in on USA. And when USA wins, guys, it makes the customers so very happy. And the sports books are like, oh, this is going to hurt to pay out. And we're going to see if it affects their quarter. You know who's a real loser in all of this?

38:29Melissa Lee:Guy Adami. Macau casinos. The June gross gaming revenue was down 12 % over last year. And the analysts all say, yeah, that's because the discretionary gambling dollars are going to a World Cup and not to Baccarat.

38:46Tim Seymour:Interesting. How did the activity change on Calci when that red card reversal happened? Yeah. I would imagine like Belgium was the probable winner of the game. And then the announcement came out and then we saw this reversal where USA took the lead. Right. I asked Caesars about this, and Caesars said, yeah, what happened is we thought USA was going in without Balogun, and then we have to go back and revise the odds on all of these markets. They don't call them markets when it's sports books, on all of the propositions for the sports bettors because now they're playing with one of their leading strikers.

39:22He's already done three goals in World Cup so far. So, yeah, it changes things.

39:27Tim Seymour:I mean, I'm wondering, does Calci stands to benefit because the U.S. has greater odds? Calci is going to benefit just from the trading volume because they earn fees. But the volume is up. And the volume is way, way up. Just in general, whether you had money going in on Belgium or USA or whether you think France is going to walk away with it all, Calci's like, we don't care. Just keep breaking it in.

39:52Melissa Lee:Love the football. I love Contessa breaking down the football.

39:56Tim Seymour:That most of all.

39:57Melissa Lee:Now, all of what she said is salient. But on the trading front, she brings up Macau correctly. Look at the move to the downside and win from 135 to where it's trading down, 95 or so. Then a report until early August. I think you're going to see at some point the roles reverse here. I think win is a buy at these levels.

40:14Tim Seymour:Do analysts expect it to reverse in terms of the discretionary gambling dollar? It's not just that. There's also been a crackdown in Macau on currency. And so that combined with people's attention is going to soccer right now or football, or I don't know what they call it in China. But in other words, World Cup is finite. It's not going to last. But currency crackdowns have been a problem in Macau. So look at it for Wynn, for Melco, MGM to a lesser degree, and Las Vegas Sands, of course. Interesting. And of course, Calci doesn't actually pay. I mean, it's between, right? So they're the ultimate.

40:48Like they're going to facilitate the liquidity. They bring the money with the market makers. What's interesting, though, there's been a lot of questions about whether Flutter and FanDuel or DraftKings are going to be cannibalized by prediction markets. Both now saying, well, we're going to be in the market making business. So if you have FanDuel going in and helping to create parlays for, say, Calci, they're going to make money either way, too. They can make money on the B2B side of this.

41:16Tim Seymour:Contessa, thank you. Contessa Brewer. Are you betting?

41:19Melissa Lee:No, but there's an I'm enjoying it. There's an argument to be made. This is not one off. Every time the U.S. wins and every time, you know, our fans and our citizens get to experience this sort of thing, I mean, they're going to start or continue to bet. It's one of the most bet on sports on the planet. And, you know, the English Premier League guy, as you know, starts in August and all the European leagues do. Counting down the days. But think about this. All of these, you know, stars from all of these countries, they go back and play on their team. So this is good for all of those companies doing this because U.S.

41:48Melissa Lee:people were getting hooked on this stuff.

41:50Tim Seymour:Coming up, sticking with a new strategy, the company's latest Bitcoin sale in the next move for the crypto trade next. And here's a sneak peek at the Kramer camp. Jim is chatting exclusively with the CEO of chemical company Solstice. Catch a full interview top of the hour on Mad Money. More Fast Money in two.

42:12Tim Seymour:Welcome back to Fast Money. Bitcoin rebounding from early losses after President Trump said he's become a, quote, big crypto guy. It had fallen more than 2 percent early in the session after a strategy said in a regulatory filing that it had recently sold 216 million dollars worth of Bitcoin. But again, you see you see the Trump effect on any asset class, which he touts. And there you go. Yeah. And I think the strategy effect is just the cloud over Bitcoin right now. Where do you actually need these companies? We've all talked about it. If you want to own Bitcoin, you own Bitcoin. You don't have to own a levered play or not.

42:50I almost think once they get out of the way, Bitcoin's actually going to rally extremely aggressively, I guess, if that's the word I'm looking for. But right now, the cloud over the whole sector are these types of companies. And Bitcoin is crypto. Crypto is Bitcoin.

43:11Melissa Lee:Well, I mean, the line in the sand clearly is about 60 ,000, which makes sense. We've traded down a few times that have bounced. The president, again, getting on the soapbox clearly helps. What doesn't help, in my opinion, is a hawkish Fed and some of the other things that are going on. So I still think there's another light glow. I think Carter suggests the charts think that. We'll see how it plays out.

43:31Tim Seymour:Yeah, Carter, what do you see? What are key levels to watch? Yeah, I mean, it's been bouncing around here, as all we'll know, trying to find its footing. I don't think it's convincing. My hunch is lower. And the derivative names think Microsoft is down some 85 percent from its peak. BMNR, Bitmoner down 90. It's not a good look. I'm not I'm not a buyer here. I mean, think back to when all the digital asset treasury companies were going public. A lot of them buy a SPAC, but they were out there with no other business premise other than raise capital by crypto. Presumably crypto goes higher and their stocks are higher, too.

44:08Tim Seymour:And here it's broken at this point.

44:11Melissa Lee:Yeah, you got to be a big promoter if you're going to have one of these crypto companies or these leveraged crypto companies, because, you know, the only hope right now is like, yeah, you can stake all your crypto, but it's literally not going to cover the billions and billions of dollars that these companies are down. They may never, ever get them back. So if you're the CEO or the chairman, you better come out with these, you know, 200, 300 percent targets for the underlying, because otherwise, if people lose confidence in the model and lose confidence in the underlying, these things are going to zero, just like a lot of the SPACs did or most of the SPACs did from 2021.

44:42Tim Seymour:Up next, final trades.

44:50Tim Seymour:Over the holiday weekend, we lost a longtime Fast Money fan, maybe one of its greatest fans. Tim Seymour's father, Michael McDonough Seymour, passed away on Friday for almost our entire run on Fast Money. Tim's dad was a nightly viewer.

45:05Melissa Lee:So, you know, obviously we all have our own families, but I think people have come to realize that we are family here. So when we lose somebody, we all lose a family member. So Mr. Seymour, married to his beautiful wife, Marilyn, for almost 66 years, five children, 12 grandchildren, a life extraordinarily well lived. So with our deepest sympathies to the Seymour family, for sure. Yes.

45:28Tim Seymour:Time for the final trade. Carter Braxton Worth. Baxter, classic value play, was 95, hit a low of 16, now a textbook bearish to bullish reversal. Steve? Tesla. Many investors are buying this one versus SpaceX, believe it or not, thinking it's a better valuation. Dan?

45:48Melissa Lee:Yeah. DRAM. So tomorrow morning, we have Samsung reporting overnight, and then we have the SK Hynix printing on Friday morning. I think you sell rallies in the DRAM. That is the ETF that tracks the space.

46:00Tim Seymour:Guy.

46:01Melissa Lee:Brian Kelly came to visit us tonight, hoping to get him back on. We don't know him as Brian Kelly. GDX, Carter Braxton Worth trade.

46:08Tim Seymour:Known as Bitcoin Baller. Tim, our thoughts are with you. Mad Money starts right now. All opinions expressed by the Fast Money participants are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of CNBC or its parent company or affiliates and may have been previously disseminated by them on television, radio, internet, or another medium. You should not treat any opinion expressed on this podcast as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of an opinion. Such opinions are based upon information the Fast Money participants consider reliable, but neither CNBC nor its affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such.

46:41To view the full Fast Money Disclaimer, please visit cnbc.com forward slash Fast Money Disclaimer. Buy the dip and save on CNBC Pro. 24-7 access to market-moving news and interviews across three global live streams for$59.99 at cnbc.com slash join CNBC Pro. Terms and conditions apply.