From NFL to CEO ft. Chris Hetherington | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby

0:00If you grew up in the 2000s, you knew what a Fathead was. Athletes didn't just play on your screen, they lived on your wall. But after years off the cultural radar, Fathead didn't just need a rebrand, it needed a comeback. Waking up every day and taking care of the blocking and tackling, understanding the exodus of the business in football terms, and we've set up pretty lengthy KPIs. Chris Hetherington isn't your typical CEO. He played 11 seasons in the NFL, came out of Yale, and rebuilt his life after losing everything in the Palisades Fire. In this episode, we talk grit, family, fatherhood, and the future of a brand that defines a generation.

0:44From the locker room to leadership. From rebuilding a brand to rebuilding a life. Welcome to Coffee. Quick break. Thinking of going independent? don't do it alone. At eMortgage Capital, our hybrid broker-banker model gives you real support, instant lead access, 160-plus lenders, and nationwide reach in 46 states. No hidden fees, no fluff, just a platform built for LOs who want freedom with firepower. Visit joinemortgagecapital.com and run your business your way.

1:25Joe, thanks for having me. Good to see you. Appreciate it. You're a friend. Our kids play ball together. It's great to have you. It's great to have you in Newport Beach now. We're blessed to have you in our city. Now, I like to start off my show the same way I ask every single one of my guests. Chris, what's your morning routine? I got a crazy morning routine, Joe. I wake up at 4.30, between 4.30 and 4.44 every morning. I go immediately in the cold plunge. I do the sauna. I meditate for about 20 minutes, work out for about 45 minutes, and then go back home and wake the kids up and get ready for school.

2:01So, you know, no option for me when that alarm clock goes off at 4.30 or 4.44, I'm up every morning. So I enjoy it. It enables me to, you know, I still train like I'm a professional athlete and I still treat my body like I'm a professional athlete because I think being an entrepreneur and a business person, You've got to take care of your mind and your body. It's worked for me. It's not easy, but I stick to it, and that's my routine. The demand of an entrepreneur and a professional athlete are pretty similar. That's why the transition for professional athletes is not that bad because they're used to such a rigorous grind.

2:42In all honesty, Joe, it's hard for a lot of athletes. The transition from being a pro athlete to the real world most of the time is very difficult in that you spend all this time and energy trying to live out this dream. And then when you're on this big stage and you're living your dream, you spend all the time and energy to stay there. For me in particular, I played 11 years in the NFL, and the chips were stacked against me. I came out, I was an undrafted rookie free agent out of Yale University, and I played quarterback in college. They made me a fullback in the NFL and was lucky enough to play for a long time.

3:18But once you retire, like, shoot, what am I going to do next, right? What am I going to pour that discipline and that passion and those traits you learn from being an athlete? You know, what's my next identity? Like, how am I going to define myself? And the reality is a lot of players really struggle with that. I feel lucky and blessed that I had a good education to fall back on and, you know, knew the game wasn't going to last forever. So I started to prepare early on in my career, whether it be internships, et cetera. But yeah, you're being told where to go and what time to be at meetings. You're getting paid to work out.

3:52You're getting paid to take care of your body. And once that's gone, you know, guys really struggle with that. Yeah, I know. We see a lot of failed athletes. I mean, we talked about this before. It's like a 90 % failure rate after they just dwindle a lot of their money away. Plus, it's only a two-year career for most. They played 11 seasons. I mean, that's a big deal. Yeah, I think the thing for me, you know, I made fullback money and didn't make quarterback money. And the money back in the late 90s and 2000 wasn't what it is today. But, you know, again, I had a good foundation to fall back on.

4:27And, you know, these athletes, you know, generally speaking, they tend to not surround themselves with the right people that are generally interested in their success after football. and they get involved in these get-rich-quick ideas or these investors or owners want to use their brand to kind of leverage what they're doing from a business perspective. Yeah, it's sad. It's sad to see some of these guys get in trouble and get poor advice and poor guidance. But it's hard. It's hard to start from a rookie again, right? When you're done with football, it's like, all right, what am I going to do? Some guys made a lot of money, and hopefully they take care of their money.

5:08and make good decisions. But in general, guys really struggle. You know, you're not a normal athlete. I mean, you went to Yale. That's a big deal. Then you went back to Harvard for some more certificates. Yeah. So you're a high-level, high-performing, high-achieving, high-intellectual athlete. It's not the standard. I mean, how many guys at that level in the NFL did you encounter? Not many Ivy League guys. I would say there's a little more these days, I think, with technology and scouting. If you're good enough to play, they'll find you. But yeah, I got lucky. I grew up right outside New Haven.

5:46I played Yale youth hockey as a kid. My brother was a great role model. He was 10 years older, went to Princeton. Neither one of my parents went to college. So I had these good role models. And academics were important to me from a young age. Obviously, I was lucky enough to be a great natural athlete. But school was definitely as important as athletics. and I'm sure we'll get into it, but I just get disappointed with some of these college athletes that are, I think there's great things around building your brand, but it's not necessarily about what school I'm going to go to and what kind of education I'm going to get.

6:19It's like how much money are you going to pay me to come to this school? So I think that's a challenging situation. And to your point earlier, improve their football IQ and understand defenses and they struggle. And sometimes it's surprising where you can be an outstanding college football player and come to the NFL and your game just doesn't transfer. And I think some of it's physical, but a lot of it's intellectual. So you're seeing now the demand, the game for college just totally has changed because of money, huh? It has changed. I think some people would argue it's changed for the better.

6:55I don't have a problem with these athletes getting paid. I think they're incredible assets to their universities and institutions. But I think the value of education has definitely been minimized. And that bums me out. Like, obviously, I had a different path. I went to a good Ivy League school and was lucky enough to play a long time. But I had that to fall back on. I mean, you can always go back to school. And, you know, I read LinkedIn and some people are arguing about this kid from Duke, whether he should stay at Duke or... You're talking about the basketball player? Basketball player. yeah but you know it's hard to argue that guaranteed money in the nba you can always go back to school yeah i mean he's we need him in the nba there's no other hot draft pick besides him he's the biggest thing that's coming out of yeah dallas got him in the lottery right dallas yeah yeah they just got him yeah i'm excited about cooper flag we don't have any big draft picks right now yeah he's gonna be good he's gonna be a good pro for sure so let's talk about your business now, you know, like successful business.

7:54How did you acquire Fathead? Good question. By luck. I, uh, look, I've, I've been involved in a lot of different businesses. I worked for a hedge fund for 11 years after I retired from football and was fortunate enough to have a bunch of different roles within that hedge fund. I was a trader for a couple of years. Uh, I ran a business in Tokyo into the big earthquake and tsunami in 2011, came back, help, uh, launch a co-invest fund. And we worked with that strategy for about five years. And then got more involved in the private equity venture capital side of our business. So I had a couple of CEO roles of companies we invested in.

8:26Fathead kind of fell into my lap, Joe, serendipitously. One of my close friends from Yale lives in Detroit, got to know the former owner and CEO, Tony. The story is Dan Gilbert owned this brand for a long time. And Dan had some health issues about five years ago. And so Tony took over the business. And essentially, I convinced him to sell it to us. I put together a really experienced group of partners and brand builders and operators and executives that had deep relationships in sports and entertainment culture. And, you know, it's funny. I reflect back in the story. I mean, we looked at this brand and we're like, you know, 194 licenses with some of the most epic IP in sports and entertainment, 2 million email subscribers, over 300 ,000 SMS subscribers.

9:08We're like, is this a melting ice cube or a sleeping giant? And the more we dug in, the more we realized the brand equity and the brand awareness and the own database and these exceptional products and the opportunity to expand from a product innovation standpoint and start to incorporate technology and automation and AI. You know, we have a really special opportunity. And now for us, it's about focus and execution. And there's just a lot of low-hanging fruit to this business. And I'm sure we'll get into it with the technology advancements we're making. But I feel very blessed. It's fun for me to be back in sports again and leverage these relationships I've built over the last 30 years and participating in these temple events that are happening in sports and culture.

9:55And it's fun. And you're getting back in the weeds. You're out on the field. You're making new business relationships. You're back in the sports entertainment world. I feel like it's – I'm saying this in a humble way, Joe, but I feel like it's everything I built my career towards was, was for this moment to, to, to be able to, to take hold of a really great brand and you know, bring it back to life in a big way and take it to new heights in a big way. And, and it's all about team, right? Like I, I, you know, really have spent a lot of time assembling the right team. And, and, we just hired a new CMO two weeks ago, Jared Duby, who's, who's a phenomenal guy with a ton of experience and expertise in sports and culture.

10:38And I have a really great COO, Jason Turner. Jen Beaver is our chief partnership officer. I've known her since my days at the Colts in the late 90s. And so, you know, team and culture is really important, as you know, as a business and organization. A lot of the stuff that I've learned from sports, you know, translates into what I'm doing now. And, yeah, we have a really big opportunity, and I'm excited to be on this journey. You know, a lot of my team members here, when I told them that the CEO of Fathead was coming, they were like, what? CEO of Fathead? Because the brand authority associated with Fathead is like, it's decades deep.

11:16Yeah. You know, it's. Yeah, there's a lot. It's, it's, it's, you know, they had a lot of nostalgia back in the day. Yeah. They came out with, you know, big decals and big moves and big statements and big athlete ambassadors. And, you know, to your point, the brand equity and brand awareness is phenomenal. And now it's our job to, you know, it's been out of the conversation, out of culture for the last four or five years. And, you know, we have an incredible opportunity to bring it back in a big way and make a big impact in culture. Youth sports is massive. So we're attacking that in a big way and, you know, really, really maximizing these licensed partners that we have and then starting to expand distribution, you know, potentially expand into other categories.

11:58outside of sports and entertainment. And so it's exciting, man. But at the end of the day, we're a brand, right? We're a brand, we're a product, and eventually we're a service. But nailing that brand and investing in brand is really our focus. We've been playing that bottom of the funnel kind of day trading, ROAS game, meta, Google. But now you've got to invest in brand. You've got to bring this brand back to culture in a big way, talk to people in the right way, live in those channels where consumers are at. And as you know, I mean, back in the day, it was all over TV and Super Bowl commercials and ESPN.

12:34Now it's social, social selling, live selling, affiliate partnerships, influencer partnerships. And so, you know, we treat that really serious. Yeah, it's all omnipresent now. You can't just be on one channel. No, got to be everywhere. Actually, TV doesn't matter. You don't even need TV anymore. Yeah. You need to be doing the podcast. You know, your social game needs to be tight. You need to be doing book releases, like everything. I tell my team, because what our company is, we're in the business of making companies. So everyone that belongs to E-Mortgage runs their own company. So they've got to basically continue to add more legs on their table.

13:13And I look at a leg as, this is Facebook. Another leg is Instagram. Another leg is LinkedIn. Another leg is TikTok. Another leg is Snapchat. Another leg is podcast. another leg is you know yeah so they got they need a hundred legs yeah and you just got to keep adding with your company i mean the sky's the limit because you could be everywhere yeah you could be everywhere now what kind of product innovations can you really roll out with fat head i mean it's a decal company like what is there to do like when when we talk about innovation like i'm curious myself like how do you innovate in that space well first of all we have we have a Great vision.

13:51We hired an incredible product team to help us make not only data-driven decisions currently, but also with our product innovation roadmap. We have goals of getting into collectibles, limited editions, one-of-ones, one-of-100s. But we bought a technology company early on and pretty robust tech stack and get into AI, AR, get into metaverse blockchain. But essentially, in the future, we want to create a fan engagement platform. And, you know, these decals have become portals to trigger content. And so we're really excited about that roadmap. But, you know, our total addressable market, Joe, is almost overwhelming.

14:29And, you know, we're known for our big life-size vinyl decals. They're incredible products, you know, removable, reusable. We have the minis, which haven't been marketed properly over the last several years. I think that's some of the most marketable products we have. You know, we have the cheering products or the big heads in the stadiums and arenas and ballparks. You know, those are kind of the licensed products, standouts and dry erase boards. We saw a lot of brackets for March Madness. We gamified that this year for the first time. So that's kind of your licensed products, all the major sports leagues, players associations, NASCAR, WWE.

15:04And then on the custom side, which I think is a massive growth opportunity, fatted yourself or, you know, your son wins, you know, our sons play together. Let's say they win the championship. They want to capture that moment with a decal or a product, you know, birthdays, graduations, bar mitzvahs. We sell a lot of pets. You know, that's really capturing these moments that are happening in life and in culture and, you know, families, if you will. And so, you know, the combination of these licensed products, these major partnerships with these iconic, you know, IP, and then the custom side of the business.

15:40you know like i mentioned earlier u sports is a big category 65 billion by 2030 right and uh so we're partnering with a lot of the biggest u sports organizations to make a real impact in your sports and that's our demo right uh your son or my son you know the day we bought the business i ordered my son a christian mccaffrey from the 49ers life-size decal he thought it was the coolest thing ever and then uh i made custom decals for my son's pally uh au all-star team I mean, a big life size and these minis, they can send a grandma and grandpa in Connecticut. They can put them on their refrigerator or Stanley's.

16:14And so the best brands innovate, as you know, right? So we have a lot of opportunities with the IP and license we have. And then a ton of opportunities on a custom side to innovate and come up with different product formats or et cetera. Yeah, that's cool. And I think there's like you're also skipping like corporate partnerships, too. Yeah, huge opportunity. You haven't even touched that space. Yeah, they did that historically. Insurance companies ordered$20 ,000 worth of product, or we're in a suite at an NFL game highlighting the sponsor of the game or the sponsor suite. There's a lot of things we can do as far as installations and stuff like that on the corporate side.

16:56But yeah, the sky's the limit. I think for me, our mantra around FATED is either hell yes or not yet. We have all these relationships and all these opportunities, But really for us, there's three to four core pillars that we're focused on, which are the big growth levers and the low-hanging fruit in the short term. Collectibles, especially now with the grading, the PSA grading is like dominating sports right now. And matter of fact, I actually, my son, I got him into sports collectibles and I actually enrolled him in a course. This is not a college course. This is like adults are in this Zoom every, you know, two times a week.

17:35and it's basically like adults who went from trading you know stocks now they're trading cards yeah you know and for a kid to understand the dynamics of business they have to really like it so he really likes sports so it's like yeah it translates over but i'm seeing this resurgence in collectibles like bigger than it's ever been like 100 times bigger so what are you guys doing in the sports collective world like that market is bananas it's like we're we're planning it out i think for us we're all about fandom right we're about celebrating fandom we're fans ourself right like i was a professional athlete but i'm a huge fan of sports and uh you know i admire what these athletes are doing i admire these successful organizations and what they're doing to build championship teams and but i'm also a fan of my kids and and you know my wife and so if i can capture those special moments, you know, through our products, it's really special.

18:33But we have, we have a lot of plans, Joe, uh, to really, you know, make an impact in that, in that space. I have a lot of friends in that space, uh, in the flexible space. Yeah. But it's, it's, it's, you know, kind of plan B or phase two of the business. You know, we have so many products to sell and, and to scale, to scale. And so, you know, we spent a lot of time over the last, I would say a year and a half, really cleaning up the business, optimizing the business, improving unit economics in a big way. I mean, you know, the only really way to meaningfully scale the business is to nail unit economics.

19:06And so we've amended some vendor agreements and got new partners in here. And now it's about growth, but it's about intentional and profitable and sustainable growth. And so starting to expand distribution, we've been 99 % DTC over the last several years. And so, you know, we'll expand distribution. We'll get into retail eventually. But you've got to have the resources and the infrastructure to support that move. And like I said, we have an opportunity to sell a lot of decals and a lot of big heads and a lot of minis and a lot of standouts. And, you know, that's what we're about these days. But big plans in the future for sure.

19:43I could definitely see a fathead store at like Irvine Spectrum. Yeah. 100%. That would be the cool store. Or in the lids store. You know, we're working with lids. I know. Next door to lids, you would just, you know, maybe a threat to them. Yeah. Yeah. It could be a partnership. We're working on that. But yeah. You plan something like that. You're thinking about having a fathead store, like just direct. Down the road. Yeah. I think there'll be a time and a place for that. You know, you got to you got to live where people people are. Like, you know, Walmart's doing Target, Amazon. You know, that's where people shop, at least the masses shop there.

20:19So you have to you have to be there. Yeah, the Irvine Spectrum play would be just a brand play just to get a couple hundred thousand views a day on more Fathead exposure. Yep, 100%. So, you know, Fathead's been, you know, such a staple in sports memorabilia. Right now, the innovation strategies you're implementing are technology. There's digital. You're planning to go consumer direct from a store perspective. And then how does AI play in that world? So AI is going to be a big part of our business. We're essentially, I won't give you the secret sauce, but we're essentially we engaged a company, a partner who has a patent on persona driven marketing.

21:05So just getting really smart about how we target the customer. Yeah, we're essentially creating this golden database or this single source of truth, which, you know, collects all of your Shopify information and all the information elsewhere to really, you know, help us create persona-driven marketing campaigns or it's email, SMS, organic, you know, et cetera. And we think that's going to provide a nice little lift to our business. You know, your landing experience, landing page experience will be different than mine and different than your wife or my 11-year-old son. And that's really the way to get smarter about targeting consumers.

21:40And I would say we have an interesting opportunity, Joe, because our return customer rate is only about 22%, 23%. And so through better data-driven marketing, we can really increase that. You know, your wife, who may or Theo, his favorite athlete on Christmas, didn't know that we also have products for your daughter. You know, so it's a way to really reach those consumers and drive up that return customer rate. But also, there's a lot of consumers that didn't know Fathead was still in business. We fell off for like a decade. Yeah, we fell off like four or five years, you know, six years. But we still have amazing products and amazing IP.

22:16And so we have a really great opportunity to capture new customers that aren't familiar with our brand. And once they see our brand and feel our brand and, you know, they love it, and then they're going to start to order more. And so it's all marketing, as you know, right? It's all investing in brand and having exceptional partnerships and having the right team and the right execution plan. But investing in brand is critical. Like I said, we do bottom of the funnel pretty well, kind of playing this ROAS game. But for us in particular, Fathead, that's been around for a long time, we need to invest in brand top of the funnel.

22:50Yeah, 23 % return rate on a brand like Fathead. what's going to be your retarget strategy to bring them back into your funnel ai yeah it shouldn't be a big drop-off unless they just don't need decals you know or whatever yeah different formats uh you know different ip and then customs like i said i mean customs is a no-brainer uh a return customer it's higher and customs is in license but uh yeah it's it's like i said getting involved and use sports. We're doing these big camps that are, we have a partner called FlexWorks Sports. We're working on a group called Base Sports. We're doing an activation at a tournament in Colorado over a 4th of July weekend where there's like 1 ,500 teams times 15 kids per team, these young girls playing softball.

23:39That's a really way to make consumers aware of our brand. And then once they see our products, they'll love them. But you got to participate in these events, It's NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB. We've got to show up in culture and bring this brand back to cultural relevance again. Do you have a team that goes to trade shows? I'm going to the licensing show next week with my partners. Yeah, we've got to show up there too. That's a good way to establish relationships and build on partnerships and create future partnerships. But yeah, you've got to show up at these events big time, Joe. In transitioning from the NFL and now CEO of Fadhead, what do you think has been one of the most valuable lessons you've learned?

24:22I've learned a lot of lessons. I think team is important for me. A lot of things I learned in sports is having the right team, having the right culture, having the right vision, getting everybody to buy into the vision, talk about the brand in the same way, be aligned with the KPIs and the goals. you know I've had some successes in my career I've had some failures and some mistakes and I think the best entrepreneurs learn from those mistakes and learn from those failures and grow from them and don't make the same mistake twice I think a thing that was a real game changer in my career was to be an open to having mentors in my life and and asking for help in my life has been crucial I'm a part of some really special communities and and you know surrounded by really successful people that are really have an authentic interest in your success.

25:14And I also, on the other side, I try to be a mentor of some of these young athletes and be transparent at what some of my challenges were and some of the things I've done well. But I think having a growth mindset has really been the key for me. Yeah, I think when it boils down to his team and culture and execution and focus. What's one thing that you could think of that a mentor told you that's like you live by frequently or daily? Surround yourself with people that add value to life. Yeah. I mean, especially being an athlete back in the day, you know, people want to be around athletes. And sometimes they're not there for the most authentic reasons.

25:53So I think, you know, in business and in life, right, your friend groups. And you've got to be around people that add value and not extract value all the time and have a genuine interest in your success. And I've been lucky. I think a lot of – I still talk to some of these kids I grew up with and a lot of people I went to high school with and college with and certainly keep in contact with a lot of guys I play with in the NFL. And, you know, I think it boils down to having the same values and being good people and, you know, cheering each other on. And some people get envious or jealous. And it's like, look, man, I'm just a normal dude trying to live out a dream and be a great dad and be a great husband.