From Racially Segregated Savannah to Nuclear Missile Crew Commander (426)

26:13So I went to an Air Force ROTC detachment at the time was Baptist College, now Charleston Southern University in Charleston, South Carolina, which took me back close to my roots because, of course, Savannah is the sister city to Charleston. And of course, as I said earlier, my stepfather was from Charleston. So I had family there as well. And so I was accepted into the two-year ROTC program, which no longer exists anymore. They don't have two-year programs anymore, but at the time they did at Charleston Southern. And is that mainly an academic education you're getting there, or is there more to it?

26:52Is there more practical stuff there?

26:54Dennis Greene:Yes. It's the same academic education that any college student would get. So you are a regular a college student. But oh, by the way, on top of it, you are also in ROTC, meaning you have to be in uniform a couple of days a week and you have to go to ROTC drills and you have to go to ROTC leadership labs. And so you have to do all of the military things on top of being a college student all at once. So did that sort of restrict your partying options? Yes, it did. As in the fact, you know, there there wasn't much time for partying because pretty much I had two jobs while I was in college ROTC. They are a debt seven, seven, two at Charleston Southern.

27:40Dennis Greene:I'm one of the few people I may be the only person in the United States of America who started careers as a E1. As an old one, as an officer, but also as a GS1 in the in the civil service, because my one of my part time jobs during ROTC was at the Naval Engineering Systems Command as a GS1. which was a student program they had to augment whatever they needed help with out there in the field and so I worked at Naval X Charleston and I started as a GS1 while I was an ROTC cadet and a knight and a student at Baptist College at the time going through college ROTC for those two years. Wow. You must have scarcely had time to breathe trying to juggle all of that.

28:40Pretty challenging and, you know, pretty much the same kind of demands as if you were at an academy. If you were at one of the academies, pretty much the same. So, Dennis, tell me about the graduation. Yes.

28:56Dennis Greene:So after two good long years of, you know, getting very little sleep and and, you know, going through all of that, you know, the day finally comes to where it all pays off. Right. And so I wasn't surprised, but I was very proud to learn that I was one of three distinguished graduates of about 50 cadets out of my graduating class. And I have to say that I did sort of prepare for it because when I got there in 1984, one of the first things, having been an administrative person, knowing what books to check, the first thing I asked the admin guy was, what does it take to become a distinguished graduate?

29:35But what are the prerequisites? And I focused on those things to to make sure that I did as best as I could in those five areas and in the ones that counted the most.

29:47Dennis Greene:And so suffice it to say, there were quite a few of my classmates who were surprised because they thought this getting the highest academic grades, you know, was was the real key to it. right? Well, no, it was a five-fold process, and I made sure I maximized each area to the highest degree. And the actual academic grades overall was the least of the five areas. When it came to grades, your grades in the ROTC leadership labs counted more than your overall GPA. So I made sure I maxed that out. And my overall GPA was good, but I made sure I made straight A's in leadership. So, yeah, so that was an honor.

30:37Dennis Greene:And that's the only thing that carries over from when you're a cadet to active duty is the fact that you graduated as a distinguished graduate. Right. I think you've shown that it pays to do the research beforehand. Yes. Where is your first posting as a newly minted second lieutenant? tenant. Yes. Yes. What a, what a, what a story. How did I wind up in Rapid City, South Dakota? It was the last place I wanted to be. Okay. Um, before you get commissioned, you fill out this thing. It's called the dream sheet, right? And, and so you get to dream where you want to be. And everybody knew the last thing that you wanted to do was to be in strategic air command sack.

31:21Dennis Greene:It was the most rigid, the most hard. The bases were way up north, nothing but snow and cold. And everybody wants to be in Florida. They want to be in California or Arizona, maybe even Texas. If you, you know, have that kind of, you know, cowboy flavor or something like that or abroad. And so I put all these Florida bases and all these cool places. And then I put some abroad and my number one was Mildenhall. I wanted to come out to where you guys are right now. That was my number one overseas place to go, right? Because I'd heard so much good about that. And lo and behold, the day comes when we get our assignments and we're like puppies panting, right?

32:04Our eyes are big. Everyone's wondering. And the professor of aerospace studies, the commander is passing out, here's your assignment. Here's your assignment. Here's your assignment. Here's your... And I look and I saw Ellsworth Air Force Base and I was almost in tears. It was like the one thing I had nothing. Everybody else got something even close to what they wanted. I got nothing to what I wanted. And Ian, I'm here to tell you, this is one of the other lessons. Sometimes blessings come when you least expect it, when you think it's the most horrible, because that was one of the best blessings that I ever received was to be able to go to Ellsworth Air Force Base during that time and to be able to get the job that I got because I was supposed to go as a personnel officer.

32:56Dennis Greene:So disappointment number one was I'm being sent to somewhere in South Dakota where it does nothing to snow all the time. Okay. And then the next disappointment was when I get to the base, I'm supposed to be a personnel officer because one of my mentors was a personnel officer. And he says, Dennis, you know, you got the background. We're going to get you into personnel. And they did. And when I got there, they said, you know, we don't need you as a personnel officer. We have too many personnel officers here. We're going to send you to recreation. So I didn't sign up to be a recreation officer. But at the time, that was one of the places where they could slide you because it was somewhat similar as far as the Air Force codes went, as far as the job codes went.

33:45And so off I was shoved into Morale, Welfare and Recreation as the operations officer for MWR at Ellsworth Air Force Base. And I had no idea other than scratching my head, how did I wind up here, that it was going to be one of the biggest blessings because pretty much running non-appropriated funds, non-appropriated funds are any self-generating funds outside of those appropriated by Congress. And there is lots of activities on the base that generate money.

34:17Dennis Greene:The open messes, the child care center, the bowling center, where we sold liquor. And we'll get to that when we get to the Soviet talk about the liquor store. and the place where you rent boats and RVs and all those things. And also the fitness center, the gyms and the childcare centers and the youth centers, they all generated income. And I was in charge of operations of all that revenue being generated, which fit perfectly into my business management background from the degree that I'd just gotten. And and I learned so much about how the base runs and I learned so much about being out there in the community because.

35:05Having that type of a job, we interact with the community at large. And so I joined the Chamber of Commerce and I was, you know, highly recognized as someone really important for the first time in my life.

35:19Dennis Greene:Right. And what did I do? but it was a it was really a blessing for those 18 months and as it turned out my boss got fired and as a as a second lieutenant i became chief of mwr as a as a as a second lieutenant which was a pretty big deal so what i was gonna ask you what was the overall budget then that you were working with a year at that time we were generating around five to six million dollars a year on that base which was for, you know, 1986 was, you know, not particularly in the middle of South Dakota, you know, the base, we had about maybe three, 4 ,000 people on that base. So to generate those type revenues and to be in charge of how they were spent, in addition to managing the appropriations that we got to, you know, keep our facilities and keep our, you know, to keep things going, that that was a blessing right so getting to Ellsworth I thought was terrible and then being sent to be a recreation officer I'm not going to pass out baseballs and basketballs to people is that what you signed me up to do I didn't yeah that's what that sounds like but you know you're the guy with all the money but I'm the guy with all the money and the guy with the big office and and the guy with secretaries and the guy with this stuff going on and so it befuddled my friends as to why I would volunteer for a missile tour right there on that same base.

36:48And we can get to that, I guess. Yeah, that was going to be my next question. Because within two years of you being the guy in charge of all the cash with that big budget, you volunteer for a Minuteman II strategic missile crew tour.

37:05Dennis Greene:Yes. Why did you do that? Because for the moment, I'd lost my mind. That's what my friends would say. They said, no, we're trying to get out. We want your job. You're trying to come here. Have you lost your mind? But I looked at it strategically, Ian. And, you know, when you look at the background, how did you spend 32 years in uniform and never get stationed overseas? Right. How does that happen? Well, it happens because I was supposed to go overseas. But when my boss got fired from MWR and I was made chief, I was supposed to go to Spangdalen, Germany. Every time I had orders to go abroad, something would happen to make me stay.

37:50And then I saw that, you know, there's not much of a opportunity past, you know, a certain level in MWR. W.R., I have to get to where the action is if I'm going to make this a career. And so the easiest thing to do was just to go to the missile wing commander and say, I want to volunteer. And if you would have seen their eyes to see someone come in highly, you know, who they would consider a pretty good prospect to say, I want to come do this. I would say the percentage of volunteers was less than five percent of all the missileers. OK, and those are the five percent who got ROTC scholarships for missiles.

38:34And so I didn't even get a scholarship for missiles. Right. I just said I want to do it because I think this is something that I need to do right now for my career. And so they said, send this man off right now.

38:47Dennis Greene:Don't let him think twice. Don't let him go to sleep. Don't let him. Yeah, just sign here quickly. Just sign here quickly. Right. sign the dotted line here quickly and get out of here and go so that's what happened and what are you signing up for there because you you are an officer so are you part of a two-man crew in a silo or or what what are you what have you signed up for there okay let's start take a step back i signed up for a four-year career broadening tour okay so i said i can broadened my career by doing this for four years. And it's just four years of my life. So I can survive four years.

39:30Dennis Greene:I can survive four years even here in all this snow and all this cold, right? And are you married at this point? Yes. As a matter of fact, I was married when I was enlisted. Okay. So was this the same girlfriend from high school? No, it was not. Oh, okay. Yeah. Things change a lot when you get in uniform. you become suddenly more attractive is that what yes yes exactly and so no i'm married at the time and and and and my son daryl is born during that first tour at ellsworth air force base the one who referred me to you was was born in 1988 there on that same base so so i signed up for four years of career broadening to be a missile launch officer, okay?

40:20Dennis Greene:They're at Ellsworth Air Force Base. So while I'm in school, and this is another lesson that I learned, the worst chewing out I got as an officer was in that interim prior to going to missile training at Vandenberg Air Force Base because, you know, you have to apply for an enhanced top secret PSYOP ESI type security clearance. And Lieutenant Green just said, I'll get around to it when I get around to it. You know, got more important things, got this, that, that, this, that, and the other to do. Well, before I went to school, I had not done the paperwork to apply for that clearance. And so it, so now I was behind and they were going to have to put me into another class.

41:08Dennis Greene:They said, no, we're not. We're just going to send you back to MWR and you're going to live the rest of your life there as punishment for not doing what we told you to do. And the worst chewing out I ever got was from a bunch of field rate officers who lit me up day and night for not having done it. And I was wrong. And I learned that, wow, okay, this is a big deal, right? It's not just something to play with. It's, you know, I messed up and they let me know that I messed up. But then I learned about grace too, because then they did give me grace. They said, look, we're going to still send you to school, but if your clearance doesn't come through, we're going to send you home.

41:50Dennis Greene:All right. And so it's not going to be on us. And it just happened to be that that personnel officer who was my mentor had been shipped off from Myrtle Beach to the Pentagon working, guess where, in the security clearance office. So this is how God works. Serendipity. This is how God works. I call my buddy up. Hey, Tommy, I need my clearance. They're getting ready to boot me out of missile school. He says, we'll get it done. And the people at missile school at Vandenberg were like mystified. Who do you know? How did you? They said, this has never happened before. A clearance has never come through so fast before.

42:29Dennis Greene:So just a little bit of serendipity there. But yes, true. you know, lesson learned and yes, moving on from there. And that background check is to check your political affiliations. You know, have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or that sort of stuff? Exactly. Yes. Right. And they do a thorough background check on you. I mean, they go back and they interview your middle school teachers, right, to see if you had any, you know, communist type tendencies back then, right? They talk to neighbors who you grew up with. You know, they knock on their doors and do you remember this guy? And they show you, you know, here's a picture of this guy.

43:10Dennis Greene:You know, do you know who this is? Yes, that's, you know, so-and-so. And yeah, I mean, it's kind of creepy, but it's necessary. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel, maybe. or white chocolate mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Get business done with the new American Express Graphite Business Cash Unlimited card with unlimited 2 % cash back on all eligible purchases, unlimited 5 % cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel Online, and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business.

43:49You'll have the confidence to keep building. Apply today and earn a welcome offer of$1 ,500 cash back after you spend$50 ,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership. Terms apply. Learn more at go.amex.com. What's the training like for that? You're having that missile training at Vandenberg. So you're in California. So you're back in the sunshine and it's the summer of 88.

44:14Dennis Greene:Yes, summer of 88. And missile school for me, it was pretty tough, I have to say, because it was the first time I had to really engage my brain. I mean, in high school, I had some trigonometry and a little bit of pre-calculus, right? But missile school for me was a little tough because now you're here around a lot of other smart people, you know, I mean, people who are really, really talented, really, really smart, even though they don't quite want to be there, they're there for a reason. They're there because but someone realized that they had the potential. And the Air Force does a pretty good job of screening, you know, who gets nuclear duty and who doesn't, much like the Navy, you know, it's pretty tough to get into nuclear duty.

45:03Dennis Greene:And so I was among people who had finished at the top of their classes, MENSA experts, you know, mental, you know, high IQs. And I wasn't out of my league, but I was really challenged really for the first time academically in my life going through. And so it was, it, it was tough for me. And I'll never forget in one of the, one of the life lessons that I learned. And, and I mean, one of the permanent life lessons that I carry with me today was in training, you're, you're going through these maneuvers, right? They have this simulated launch control center. And so you're in this simulation and you're going through all the motions and you're going through the checklist.

45:48Right. And a gentleman who was my trainer, who became my friend later, Dars Dagenio. I was a lieutenant. He was a captain. And he stopped. He said, just stop. And so we stopped everything. And he pulled me out and he says, look, I've got to tell you something.

46:05Dennis Greene:And he says, you know, you've got all the talent in the world, you know. He says, but you are afraid to succeed. I said, what? He says, you are afraid to succeed. He says, you're like a mechanical machine. He says, just loosen up and be who you are. He says, but right now, you are afraid to succeed. And wow, Ian, that stuck with me. I was never told that I was afraid to succeed. I was told I was afraid to fail, but I was never told I was afraid to succeed. And from that point on, I looked at life differently. And later in life, and this is another one of these things that you just can't make up.

46:59When I'm in Air Command and Staff College and I'm promoted quickly through the ranks, I catch up with my friend Dar Dargenio, and we are in Air Command and Staff College together, not only in the same class, but in the same classroom for a whole year.

47:18Dennis Greene:Wow. Yes. Wow. And what was that? Were you just nervous that you were going to mess something up? Yes, because, you know, they tell you these are nuclear weapons. There is no room for any error. You must be 100 percent perfect all the time. There is no room for any error whatsoever. And so I was stiff, you know, and here I was an athlete who had competed. But here I was for the first time freezing up. You know, I was I was, as we say in sports, I was choking. And he pulled me out. He said, stop. You are afraid to succeed. You're afraid to win. And that changed my life. That changed my life perspective.

48:09You're giving me some great insights here into the pressures that go on in the military. Do you remember the first time you actually stepped into one of these silos and you're in the seat with the seat belt and what have you?

48:26Dennis Greene:Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I go back to Ellsworth because that's where I volunteered. Right. So, you know, they said, sign this man up and bring him back. So after the summer of 88, I go into the silo and and I fall victim to to what everyone falls victim to on their first alert. They play pranks on you. They they play the biggest pranks on you. Right. And the prank that was played on me, I subsequently played on many others who came after me. But you're down there in the launch control center and you're a deputy and you're with a crew commander and, you know, you're the Green deputy. No pun intended.

49:08Dennis Greene:My name was Green, but I was Green. And they said, Lieutenant Green, there's a phone call for you. I took a message here. Call Colonel Sanders at this number. You know, they probably just want to, you know, welcome you. Right. So you call Colonel Sanders and it's Kentucky Fried Chicken. Yeah. I saw that coming. My surname is Sanders. Oh, is it? And endless things at school around fried chicken. So, yeah. It's so good. I feel for you there. But it's a good trick to plan you there. Yes. And everybody gets it on their first leg. everybody gets it you know they they get something so i got the colonel sanders trick played on me and i'd use that one of many other newbies coming in after me right that and that and a few other ones that may not be so appropriate for your podcast oh well we may have to well speak about those offline right um you're actually in a silo ready to launch with a crew commander yes why you're there i mean you know if something is a test alert or not well you don't know later you you don't know until after the test is over so you actually think you're going to launch then well yes up until they tell you that it's a test gee and so and so you don't know you know that's the whole point of being ready right is you will get something that comes over the communication.

50:51Dennis Greene:And there's different types of ways to communicate. You know, it could be voice or it could be, you know, in something that's encrypted or, you know, without getting into deep classified information on how we receive it. There are different ways we can receive it. But when we receive it in that moment, we don't know that it's a test until after we go through whatever the instructions have us do and then this is the test you know cease and desist and then you go back to sleep or whatever so does it go as far as you putting the keys in and then they say no it's a test or no it does not go that far no because the keys are locked the keys are actually locked up in a container and is two person control and the other person never shall know the combination of the lock of the other person.

51:49And so both, both people have to authenticate that test message. And so when it comes to the authentication piece of the message, that's when

51:57Dennis Greene:you find out that it's a test because, because that's where, because it tells you do not authenticate, you know, this is a test. There must be a heart thumping moment up until the time they tell you it's a test. I mean, the adrenaline must be flowing at that point. Well, no, the adrenaline is not flowing either because it happens so often. It just becomes commonplace, right? It just becomes commonplace and you expect it to be except until Desert Shield in Desert Storm. Hi, this is Rhonda in Virginia, and I support Cold War Conversations because I think the work that Ian is doing is critically important.

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53:26Dennis Greene:When we thought that Saddam Hussein may have had nuclear weapons, and that's when it got serious, because we didn't know if he had them, and if Saddam Hussein did have them, would he use them, knowing at the time, at that time in history, he used every weapon that he had in his arsenal. So the question number, question one, does Saddam have nukes? And two, if he's got a nuke, will he use it? And so during those classified pre-departure briefings, when those tests came through, you could not hear a pin drop because that's when it was gut-wrenching because this could be for real. And so we among ourselves sort of rationalize, okay, if this were to be real, it would probably be a Navy nuclear sub that would retaliate.

54:32However, we were still,

54:35Dennis Greene:those were tense moments, okay? But then outside of that, once that faded, And then, you know, we kind of went into deactivation mode after that time. But, yeah, that was a time to where we really couldn't hear a pin drop. And I guess with the Soviets, did you think they're never going to be crazy enough to launch an attack? So the chances are we're never going to get a real... No, we... Did we ever think? Good question, Ian. I'm sorry. That's it for this week, but if you want to hear more of Dennis's story, the next episode will be out on the 25th of October. The episode extras such as videos, photos and other content are available via a link in the episode information.

55:31The podcast wouldn't exist without the generous efforts of our financial supporters and I'd like to thank one and all of them for keeping the podcast on the road. The Cold War conversation continues in our Facebook discussion group. Just search for Cold War Conversations in Facebook. Thanks very much for listening and look forward to seeing you next week.

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