In short
Ihor, born in 1958 in Lviv (western Ukraine), describes growing up in the Soviet Union during the 1960s–70s: censorship, limited media access, family silence, Soviet schooling and youth organizations, and military training; he also recounts how relatives abroad were hidden and how WWII memories survived in the countryside.
Guest background
Ihor’s father was a professor at Lviv Polytechnic University; his mother was a pharmacist. He spent summers near the Polish border on his grandparents’ farm. His grandfather served in the Austrian army in WWI, later as a Russian POW; a great-uncle helped form Ukrainian armed forces in 1917 and was killed in 1918.
Key claims
Soviet history in school emphasized Russia as the main WWII victor; Western reporting was blocked (Voice of America jammed). Ukrainians initially expected Germany to bring independence, then fought both Germans and Soviets from 1942.
Notable examples
finding WWII trenches, shells, and sometimes hand grenades while playing; listening to shortwave radio with homemade antenna wire; school “Ready for Work and Defense” badges; military classes shooting AK-74; and a 1960 message from a relative in Queens, New York, kept secret due to fear of Siberia.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOChildhood in Lviv
0:30 to 1:04
Ihor shares his early life experiences growing up in Lviv, Ukraine.
“Shop and save on pro-grade storage at The Home Depot.”
Childhood in Lviv
1:06 to 2:14
Ihor shares his early life experiences growing up in Lviv, Ukraine.
“When we were playing in the woods, there were still defense like trenches that left over from Second World War.”
Family History and War Stories
2:14 to 5:00
Ihor recounts family stories about his grandfather's experiences in WWI and WWII.
“So I grew up in this city, but I spent a lot of summer vacation, went on vacation at a small farm at my grandparents.”
Ukrainian Perspectives During WWII
5:00 to 7:42
Discussion on how Ukrainians viewed the German occupation during WWII and the misconception of collaboration.
“you can spend your entire life in one place and live in four different countries.”
Censorship and Media Access
7:42 to 9:34
Ihor explains the censorship in the Soviet Union and his family's access to foreign broadcasts.
“So you couldn't really listen to, you couldn't turn on and watch CNN or BBC.”
Education and Historical Narratives
9:34 to 10:49
Ihor discusses the education system in Ukraine and its portrayal of history.
“I was a fan to build showroom radios, so we were using copper wire to extend hand over the window, scarred drapes.”
Living Conditions in Soviet Ukraine
10:49 to 13:19
Ihor describes the living conditions and accommodations in his childhood home.
“We studied history, we did it in chronological order, from ancient times, ancient Greece, ancient Rome, and then we move on.”
Family Connections in the West
13:19 to 14:02
Ihor shares the story of his uncle's disappearance during the war and his eventual discovery in America.
“There was massive development in the 50th century when the flat was very low ceiling.”
The Discovery of Yuroslav's Fate
14:02 to 16:55
Learn about the surprising discovery of a missing family member's fate after years of uncertainty.
“And basically all he had back back and he left my grandparents' village.”
The Heartbreaking Reunion
16:55 to 18:18
Explore the emotional reunion of a family separated by war and political turmoil.
“No, they actually saw him after Ukrainian, after Soviet Union collapse, and Ukrainian declared independence.”
Show all 22 chapters
Secrets and Silence in Soviet Life
18:18 to 21:10
Understand the caution exercised in discussing relatives abroad during the Soviet era.
“by second world wars, they never recovered.”
Secrets and Silence in Soviet Life
21:17 to 21:32
Understand the caution exercised in discussing relatives abroad during the Soviet era.
“It's actually a club with cool finds and like a whole community.”
Education Under Soviet Influence
21:32 to 25:39
Examine the impact of propaganda in the education system of Soviet Ukraine.
“I presume there was quite a lot of propaganda in there and potentially some military training.”
Childhood Adventures in Soviet Ukraine
25:39 to 28:00
Relive the playful childhood experiences and outdoor activities of youth in Soviet Ukraine.
“What did you do in your spare time with your friends?”
Childhood Games and War Memories
28:00 to 31:37
Explore childhood games that reflect the historical context of Soviet Ukraine, including war games and their cultural significance.
“But in school, you basically, it was even a question, everybody has to member and you get this small tiny ID card with the stamp that you pay your duty.”
Academic Life and Political Influence
31:40 to 35:45
Delve into the academic environment in Soviet Ukraine, including favored subjects and ideological teachings.
“And academically at school, what was your best subject?”
University Experience and Military Training
35:45 to 41:32
Understand the structure of university life in the Soviet Union and the integration of military education.
“Yes, it's so like it's I would say in university was pretty much like a regular university.”
Career Beginnings in Telecommunications
41:32 to 42:04
Discover the transition from university to professional life and initial career experiences in telecommunication.
“The reason I say this is on the Spotify app you can now leave comments on individual episodes.”
Encouraging Listener Engagement
42:04 to 42:33
Learn how leaving reviews can help support the podcast.
First Job in Military Equipment
42:33 to 44:24
Discover the speaker's experience working in military equipment production.
“And it was all basically order for Ministry of Defense.”
Military Recruitment Experience
44:24 to 46:36
Explore the process and implications of being recruited into the Soviet military.
“and I was working at a computer center, but it was an old-fashioned computer center.”
Transition to Military Service
46:36 to 47:45
Hear about the transition from civilian life to military training.
“And you will see what real life looks like.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Ihor:Welcome to Cold War Conversations, the home of real stories of the Cold War.
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1:06Heath Drury:When we were playing in the woods, there were still defense like trenches that left over from Second World War. And we still were fighting like artifacts. Sometimes, if you're lucky, you will find hand grenades.
1:21Ihor:This is Cold War Conversations. If you're new here, you've come to the right place to listen to Cold War history. Please make sure you follow us in your podcast app so you don't miss future episodes. Born in Lviv in Ukraine in 1958, Ihor grew up in a city where borders shifted but memories endured. In this episode, he recalls his childhood shaped by silence, censorship and family stories that could only be told in private. While official history came from Moscow, a very different past survived in the countryside. passed down by grandparents who'd lived through empire war and occupation. This is a personal account of what it meant to grow up in Ukraine, then part of the Soviet Union, during the 1960s and 70s.
2:09Ihor:I'm delighted to welcome Ihor to our Cold War conversation.
2:14Heath Drury:I was born in November 1958 in the western part of Ukraine, in Lviv, which had very complicated history by itself, but my father was professor at Polytechnic University, pretty much spent his entire life in academia, and my mother was pharmacist. She worked at local pharmacy. Unfortunately, my parents are gone. So I grew up in this city, but I spent a lot of summer vacation, went on vacation at a small farm at my grandparents. It's outside, I would say, 30 miles outside of the closet to Polish border. And just spending time on countryside was more relaxed because in the city, my parents never talked about their past, their uprising, because it was Soviet Union, and it's like you couldn't go to church because church was separated from the state.
3:22So it was really hard to keep tradition at home and in the city.
3:28Heath Drury:And plus, because my father was a professor at Polytechnic University, basically, you try not to do what you consider the wrong thing to do. But when I spent time with my grandparents, I really heard a lot of stories from my grandfather and my grandmother. My grandfather was in First World War in Austrian army. So fought in the Dolomite area and then was a prisoner of war, was captured by Russians because Lviv then was part of Austro-Hungarian Empire. and his brother, which is my great uncle, also fought in First World War, was prisoner of war, like caught by Russia and then escaped from Russian prisoner of war camp, came back to Kiev and he is actually, was the one who started to form armed forces for independent Ukraine in 1917 and he actually was killed in action in 1918 outside of Kiev.
4:40Heath Drury:So he was commander of machine gun company. So I heard basically, I heard a lot of old military tradition and not only military tradition, but about this like authenticity and how complicated what people went through, two different wars and what change. So the common joke between my grandparents and people from the village was basically, you can spend your entire life in one place and live in four different countries. Austria-Hungary until 1918, Poland from 1918 through 1939, Soviet Union from 1939 to 1990, and then independent Ukraine.
5:28Ihor:You were living in one of those areas where the borders were really fluid. Did your grandparents talk much about their experiences in World War II?
5:39Heath Drury:World War II, actually, they took a little bit, but less, because then my grandfather was almost not too old to get drafted during World War II, and he had some health issues. He was okay, but by army standards, she wasn't able to fight. But what was interesting, what they told me, when World War II started, a lot of Ukrainians thought that Germany will bring them independence. And this is where misconception comes that a lot of people would say Ukrainians were Nazi collaborators. They were not. They didn't like being occupied by Russia or the power of Soviet Union. And they thought that German troops will basically will bring independence to Ukraine.
6:31And from what
6:32Heath Drury:my grandfather told me, from the beginning the war was like more or less civilized. German soldiers stayed in their house, brought food, brought chocolate for kids, paid for their stay, and then got up in the morning, left, and came back to the house to spend the night. But it was in early years of the war, and then later on, everything has changed. And then also, then Ukrainians realized that Germany has no interest to keep Ukraine as independent country. Germany wants just basically to be everybody's slaves, like forced labor for Germany. Then Ukrainian people who were trying to support German, basically, were fighting war on both fronts.
7:24Heath Drury:So it was like Ukrainian insurgent army. So they basically, from 1942, they fought against German and Russians at the same time. So they were caught between two fires, so to speak.
7:36Ihor:And it sounds like your family were not huge fans of communism.
7:41Heath Drury:To some extent, we live behind Iron Curtain because everything, information was censored. So you couldn't really listen to, you couldn't turn on and watch CNN or BBC. There were like two channels on TV and channel one and channel two. And they were basically like most of the stuff was broadcasting from Moscow, some of them from Kiev. But it was very censored. So the one thing I remember when I was growing up, when my father was listening to Voice on America on the shortwave radio, and it was so interesting because there were like Voice of America was heavily jammed. And I remember we were sitting by, it was in old days, like shortwave radio stationery still with lamps in the back, like tubes, like old TV.
8:41Heath Drury:and you listen to something, and when conversation is neutral, there is no jamming, and then something, and America and Vietnam, and then you hear this solid background noise, and it was the same when invasion of Afghanistan started, because war in Afghanistan started, like public didn't really know a lot about the war. All we knew that basically the Soviet Union is helping Afghanistan to become an independent country, and they build school and build roads. So real information about war was not accessible to public, period.
9:25Ihor:And listening on shortwave radio was not great at the best of times, because stations would fade in and fade out just through the atmospherics.
9:33Heath Drury:To come with additional antennas, I remember graphite I was building. I was a fan to build showroom radios, so we were using copper wire to extend hand over the window, scarred drapes. Yeah, but it was hard.
9:53Ihor:Did you listen to the BBC World Service as well?
9:57Heath Drury:Actually, I didn't listen that much because I didn't speak English to a certain extent. So, sorry. What we listen mostly on short videos is we listen to Polish radio stations because we're right across the border. So, Polish broadcast was accessible. And not only Polish radio broadcast, but TV movies. So the first restaurant that I watch on is like TV with antenna like pointing towards like Polish border. And then pretty much so a lot of history about my family and history pretty much of Ukraine. I learned mostly from my grandparents. I went to school and when school gives you like brief history.
10:48Heath Drury:And to some extent, I would say that education was pretty good. We studied history, we did it in chronological order, from ancient times, ancient Greece, ancient Rome, and then we move on. So we cover all chapters. But still, for example, the history of Second World War was basically taught in order to make Russia a main contributor and Russia won the war and everything else. So we got information, but a lot of information was censored.
11:26Ihor:And what sort of accommodation were you living in?
11:29Heath Drury:When I was born, we lived in, it's not even, it's, say, with a two-room apartment, because the ways how they define apartment in Ukraine, they would call by number of bedrooms, but they would call by number of rooms, and kitchen would be excluded. So first apartment that I was born, basically, it was, and it was two of us, me and my sister. My sister is two years older than me. So we had kitchen. We had two rooms. One room was my parents' bedroom, and second room was dining room, but also acts like with two couches. I slept on one couch, and my sister slept on another couch. And there was only one bathroom.
12:15Heath Drury:You basically get up in the morning, you take your turns. But frankly, even our accommodation will be considered to be privileged because a lot of people live in communal flats, which you have only one room and use your kitchen and bathroom.
12:37Ihor:And what were your neighbors like? So this was in a block of flats you were in.
12:44Heath Drury:Actually, we were slightly more privileged because we lived in an old town, so the building was probably built in late one year. So it was a standalone four-story building. The architecture of Lviv, to some extent, is very similar to architecture of Vienna or Salzburg because there was a lot of impact from Gothic architecture from Austrian time. So it was not like newly built flat. There was massive development in the 50th century when the flat was very low ceiling. we all things considered we had pretty luxury apartment we have high ceilings just like tall windows it's like apartment build all the apartment buildings in paris or in higiena so
13:41Ihor:this was just similar type did you have any relatives who lived in the west oh this is a
13:48Heath Drury:Very interesting question, yes. So my uncle, so my father's old brother, just like when the war started, he was drafted to the army. And basically all he had back back and he left my grandparents' village. And then, so he pretty much was MIA. So my grandmother thought that he was killed. And she basically, and it's a very, like, touchy story. And 20 years later, in 1960, somebody came from America, one of relatives, like, to somebody else in the village. And they stopped by my grandmother's house. And they said, your son, Yuroslav, is alive. He has family and he lives in New York, in Queens, New York.
14:49Heath Drury:And then it was a shock for my mother. But they were afraid to send any letters because they were afraid that parents will be sent to Siberia. So the story about my uncle, he was wounded and he was in the prisoner of war camp and then he was released by American troops in Italy. He was in camp in Rimini, Italy, and he was released by American troops. And then he basically made to America. He went through Roosevelt Island, his medical, everything else. And then he did odd jobs in New York City. And then war in Korea started, and he enlisted in the U.S. Army during Korean War. And then when he got discharged from the military after the war, he got his citizenship.
15:47Heath Drury:As they say, he got his citizenship by blood. But they were afraid to write letters because they were heavily censored. And even after 1960s, they started to write to my grandmother. but the letter was signed, the address was not his name, not Chernik, but somebody else's last name, and he sent it only to villages. They would never send a letter to my father in the city because if you're in university, your correspondence was more heavily censored than everyone else because you're supposed to bring new engineers, new generation of workers for Soviet Union. So everything has to be perfect. And even when my father knew it, it was still kept in secret.
16:41Heath Drury:We are not advertising to anybody. We just kept this information to ourselves.
16:49Ihor:Wow. Well, I'm presuming your grandparents never actually saw their son again then? or -
16:55Heath Drury:No, they actually saw him after Ukrainian, after Soviet Union collapse, and Ukrainian declared independence. So he came to Ukraine in 1992, and my grandfather was gone by then. But he came to the village, and he saw my grandmother. And I will tell, it was like a heartbreaking story, because he came, I draw him from the city and he was still very careful because even it was independent in Ukraine but he came as part of like a tourist group and the tourist group was still watched by KGB because KGB was then in like disarray here's new government but they technically still KGB of USSR so they didn't know what to do but so they still performed their roles they were watching tourist group who just what they did, who they sought and so my uncle saw his mother briefly for a few hours and then he left it was heartbreaking because I knew that this was the last time that she will see him because she was 92 by then and I have to tell this generation like my uncle, they were damaged by second world wars, they never recovered.
18:21Heath Drury:We were driving through the village and there were a few older guys that he grew up with them together and he recognized them immediately. I said, listen, uncle, do you want me to stop? I said, you know what? It was a long time ago so you probably don't even remember me. Let's just keep going. And it was very sad.
18:46Ihor:That must have been such an emotional meeting with his mother.
18:49Heath Drury:Oh, I know. It was very emotional. It was heartbreaking because when we were learning, he said it's like less goodbye, as they say.
19:00Ihor:Were you told within your family not to mention things outside the family circle? Oh, yes, absolutely.
19:09Heath Drury:Yeah. So actually, I have one very close friend that we grew up together. and so my father was his godfather because in the Kraneswara tradition, you have father and you have godfather and godmother. So they actually knew because my parents went to school together with my friend parents and they also have like relatives in America. But beside that in my circle of school friends, even when I went later on to Polytechnic University, I never talk to anybody about my relatives abroad. And my father told me straight and simple, just keep your mouth shut, otherwise I will lose my job.
Read the full transcript
20:00Ihor:Yeah, completely understood. Your parents have no idea that the Soviet Union is going to disappear in the early 90s. So in that situation, you just keep your head down and keep everything squeaky clean and just try and rub along as best you can. I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, on a botulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms.
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21:09Heath Drury:Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. Did you know Sam's Club isn't a store? It's actually a club with cool finds and like a whole community. It's a club. Of course, Jason. It's in the name, Sam's Club.
21:28Ihor:Oh, yeah. Come join us. Sam's Club. So what was your school education like? I presume there was quite a lot of propaganda in there and potentially some military training. as well?
21:41Heath Drury:Yeah, school education was interesting. Overall, we basically, the good thing, basically school was in Ukrainian, but most of our teachers were from local teachers from the area, from Western Ukraine. But the same, they had to be careful. So we learned history and literature. but when we study Russian we not only study Russian language but we also study like Russian literature so because the point was they wanted you to get really good grasp so we read all classic like Russian like writers Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Chaco one like one piece it was mandatory reading and and Dostoevsky Crime and Punishment was the same with mandatory in school, but I couldn't, but it's such a hard book.
22:43Heath Drury:I tried to read it when I was like 13 years old. There's no way you could understand it. Of all, education was good. It was like, we had good math teachers, biology, but when it came to history, basically, there was a lot of propaganda, and then, And so when we started, it was basically, we all had been told that, so I was in school in mid-70s, so this was socialism. And according to our teachers, basically, we're not in communism society yet because society is not ready for communism because the socialist, everybody gets what he produced and get compensated for it, And communism, everybody gets what they need without contributing.
23:36Heath Drury:So it was very confusing, yes, but it was a lot of propaganda. And speaking of military, basically, we had physical education, and we also have military classes. Like once a week, like for hours, you basically wear not military uniform, but something similar, khaki-like color, like pants and jacket. and we basically just, we had shooting range in the basement of school, which is like funny, school and shooting range. And we shot like a 22 caliber rifle and then I think age 15, I was in eighth grade, then we just learned how to operate and shoot Kalashnikov AK-74. You know, it was very, so safety was very important.
24:29Heath Drury:and the teachers who taught military education were like retired army officers. Everybody got only three rounds, you load three rounds in magazine and you shoot three rounds and you're done. And then you have to do, detach the magazine, do control check, and everything else. And also physical education was, there was a lot of focus on fitness and we even had this badges basically it's called ready for work and defense and there were like three there was a master category because you have to run 100 meters you have to do like 25 push up you have to do 10 chin ups and you have to shoot like 22 rifle and you have to score a certain number on target And then you would get this badge, basically, you're ready to work and defend your country.
25:37Ihor:Wow, wow. Not like a UK school by any means. What did you do in your spare time with your friends?
25:45Heath Drury:No, you see, spare time, you pretty much have like regular childhood. When I was growing up, it's probably different now, but when I was growing up, There was not a lot of places where you could go after school. So we would go, we would walk from school to the park and empty lot and play football, like soccer, or basically play in the parks, kind of like hide and seek or like playing almost like a war. There were like, you're hiding, there were like water pistols. so you will put water in a pistol and you'll be chasing each other. You'll be hiding behind the trees. So I think of all our childhood was probably like everybody else's childhood to some extent.
26:35Heath Drury:But the more freedom I felt when I went for summer vacation to my grandparents' house and the rule was you help with the garden in the morning and then you play rest of the day. So I was working in the morning. I was feeding like livestock. When my grandparents didn't have the farm because then it was Soviet Union. So there was collective farm. And as household, you're allowed to have only one cow and you can have two pigs and then number of chickens and everything else. So I would take cows to the pasture and just bring them back and help my grandparents with potato patch. But then I really enjoyed my free time because in the countryside, you go fishing, you play in the woods, you build.
27:29Heath Drury:So the most memorable activity from childhood is like from countryside, from my grandparents' village.
27:38Ihor:I can imagine. And you were in the Young Pioneers and the Pomsomol groups.
27:42Heath Drury:So maybe this was not even a choice. I was young pioneers and then we like, next step up, young pioneer was come some all, which is youth like almost pre-cursue to become member of Communist Party. But in school, you basically, it was even a question, everybody has to member and you get this small tiny ID card with the stamp that you pay your duty. It was symbolic, you pay like 10 copies, whatever. Not even. And also in school, so once in a while, just be part of the school activity. They will take, it's like, for example, if school in America, they take you for field day, go to the farm, we will take, they will take us for field day and we play war games so they will break us into group and you will have one group will have red shoulder boards and one group has like blue shoulder boards and you run against each other and you throw somebody in the snow and as long as you grab his shoulder boards then he's dead so it was interesting entertainment to say at least and when you're a kid and you're playing
29:14Ihor:like the games with the water pistols is it like some of your friends are pretending to be nato and you're pretending to be the soviet union or did that just not come into it it was just
29:25Heath Drury:it wasn't coming it was mostly like we watch a lot of native america not western but like movies about American Indians, but most of the movie is based after Fennemar Cooper novels, but most of them were filmed in Yugoslavia, which was so funny. So Chinatouk was a Yugoslavian actor. So we play in Indians and white people. No, but no. And we also, yeah, but we play like Russian against Germans. So the ones were like Germans and everybody else was Russian.
30:10Ihor:Okay, so refighting World War II.
30:12Heath Drury:Yeah, so there was a lot of resemblance after World War II. We still, my grandparents live by a small wooded area, and we still were fighting artifacts from Second World War, like empty shells. Like, sometimes, if you're lucky, you will find hand grenades. But it was, like, slightly just hard to find. And when we were playing in the woods, there were still defense, like, trenches that left over from Second World War. Wow. So the history was right there.
30:48Ihor:Hi, this is Rhonda in Virginia. And I support Cold War conversations because I think the work that Ian is doing is critically important. I think it's vital to record the firsthand accounts of people who lived and experienced the Cold War because it illustrates history in a way that a book never can. So thank you so much for the podcast. It's my favorite podcast and I look forward to it every week. To be like Rhonda and help to preserve these incredible stories of the Cold War. as a monthly or annual supporter. You'll be able to listen ad-free, you'll become one of our community, get the sought-after Cold War Conversations drinks coaster as a thank you, and you'll bask in the warm glow of knowing that you're helping to preserve Cold War history.
31:37Ihor:Just go to coldwarconversations.com slash donate to find out more. And academically at school, what was your best subject?
31:48Heath Drury:Academically, I was really in school. I was a history buff. I love history. I love geography. So frankly, these were my two favorite subjects. And I read most of history books that we had to read during our history classes. I read them even before we were assigned to read them. And I love history of this, pretty much everything, but I love medieval times and then history of Ukraine. When you go to Kazakhs' war, like from 16th century and then war between Ukraine and Poland and just all this. And then it was the big thing was then big war was Crimean War. This is when Sevastopol really came on the map, because Sevastopol was port already, and a lot of battles were around three or four Russian admirals from Crimean War buried in Sevastopol.
32:53Heath Drury:The funniest thing, not a lot of people know that if you look at Russian Navy flag, it's St. Andrew's flag.
33:04Ihor:Yeah, it's the blue cross on the white background.
33:08Heath Drury:Yeah, and you know what? Because one of the first Russian admirals was Scottish Admiral Mackenzie, and somehow he settled in Sevastopol, because this time it was still, I think, during Peter the Grey, there were a lot of Scots or Danes who traveled around, and he got good terms, land, whatever, and there was even an area in Sevastopol called Mackenzie's Ridge.
33:35Ihor:brilliant i never knew that that's a great story that it's based on the scottish flag
33:42Heath Drury:yeah i will send you the link it's really it's a great story brilliant i'll include that in the
33:48Ihor:episode notes when you send that to me now normally in the eastern blot to go to university you've got to have the right parents and your parents have got to be supporters of the regime and things like that did you manage to go to university didn't you you were recognized as
34:05Heath Drury:being talented enough to go there yeah actually you know what you would have to write parents if you would go to specific university so polytechnic university just engineering school basically everybody could go as long yes they would check your background but for example there was, I went from, I studied electrical engineering, so I was in electrical engineering department, and then there was what they call radio technical department, and radio technical department, because it's basically, it's radio communication signals, so they would check your background more thoroughly. So for example, if you would have relatives abroad, like in one of Western countries, you would never become a student and admitted to radio engineering department, but electric engineering just was fine.
35:05Heath Drury:So, but the specific institution, for example, there is a university in Moscow, University of International Relationships. So you would have to have somebody member of Communist Party and highly. Because then for this position, because this is like future diplomats and state service, so you would have to be from, you would have to have right pedigree.
35:36Ihor:Understood, understood. So you're accepted into the Le 5th State Polytechnic University in 1975. Correct. Tell me what life was like in that polytechnic and what you were being taught.
35:51Heath Drury:Yes, it's so like it's I would say in university was pretty much like a regular university. But first, yes, also there was heavy influence on it's like we didn't study history, but there was subject history of Communist Party. And we had been taught history of Communist Party in details, starting from Marx through Ulliano, Lenin, Stalin, and all the Politburo members, general secretaries. And then there was also philosophy, and the same. There was philosophy of communism, stages of socialism, communism, and how to achieve, how to get to it. But everything else after the first two years were basically technical disciplines, this electric machine like power generation, distribution networks.
36:48Heath Drury:But also in university, we had military department on more like larger scales. There was entire campus dedicated to military. We had our own trucks. We didn't have armored carrier because it was coming, but we have our trucks from transportation. We have different equipment. There was like armor, like for light weapons, like Kalashnikov, basically when you go to shooting range. And military education was taught by some of them were active duty officers that had recruitment job. or some of them just were like teachers at university, just like teaching military education. And what was interesting, it was full dedicated days, so I remember it was every Wednesday, you get up in the morning, you put a military uniform, you go to what they call military department, Vyemlya Kafedra in Russian or Ukrainian, and you spend there the whole day.
37:59Heath Drury:and we will study tactical maps. And the concept was United States is not your friend, United States potential aggressor. We studied technical maps. We look at east coast of United States. I remember New London submarine base was one of primary target. And then there's Kings Bay in Georgia, like even now large heavy-duty submarine base. so I saw those bases on the map in like 1978 it was like fascinating if you think about it
38:36Ihor:so you'd probably not seen a map in that sort of detail of the United States
38:40Heath Drury:no yes I never seen it before and over there what was like what they call a tactical map so it was very detailed there were like roads highway there was high 95 mark across there were like Inlet, like New London, because submarine base is deep in the mouth of rivers. And what we also saw, like we saw movies about American Navy, and somebody asked us, how did we get this movie? And the question was, you don't need to know, but there was documentary like about, yes, aircraft carrier, basically. They show aircraft carriers, they show crew, they show what they do. like with a spare time, how they can.
39:26Heath Drury:When we started to watch the title before this, they started to show the movie proper of GRU, Army Intelligence. So nobody knew how this movie was obtained.
39:39Ihor:What were they training you for then? Because they're providing you specific information there.
39:45Heath Drury:Yeah. Everybody, like a different department, has like different what they call Army specialty. so mine was like I would say Signal Corp because ours was radio communications and after graduation from university we all will be lieutenants so technically my position was like rank lieutenant and commander of radio communication platoon so so by going to university
40:16Ihor:you were destined to become
40:18Heath Drury:an officer within the Soviet army actually it's yes and no so you would be what they call here ROTC you will have the rank you will be officer in reserve and some people it's like some people never serve and some people serve if you look at the ratio I would say from it's probably 20 probably from all my colleagues, all my friends that we got graduated, I would say probably 15 % served. But the way you serve, you basically, it's like you're a commissioned officer, but you have a contract for two or three years. Two years in the Army, three years in the Navy. And then after that, you have option.
41:10Heath Drury:you can either extend your contract or you'll be you will get discharged but if you extend your contract you have to you commit to next 20 23 years because in soviet military you would have be 25 years doesn't matter what you like if you don't like it you commit to serve you have to
41:32Ihor:it's too late if you don't yeah you don't fancy it now if you've listened this far you must be enjoying the show. At least I hope you are. The reason I say this is on the Spotify app you can now leave comments on individual episodes. So do me a favour and hit that pause button and leave a comment. It'd be great to hear from you and your interactions help push Cold War conversations up the Spotify rankings. Whatever you do, thanks very much for listening and now back to your episode. hey are you still there that's great now if you're enjoying the podcast and you listen via the apple podcast app you can leave a written review positive reviews really help me gain new listeners so hit that pause button and give me a five-star rating thanks very much for listening so when you graduate you actually start a professional career so where are you working yes so just i graduated in 1980
42:33Heath Drury:and my first job was basically just i at it i would say it's a mixture of radio equipment telecommunication manufacturing so i was like a project manager on assembly line so i basically was checking logistics because, let's say, we would have to produce a certain number of devices. And it was all basically order for Ministry of Defense. It was military equipment. And it's basically like encryption, like communication channels, all in one thing. But what was shocking to me is the quality between products for civil life and military. In military, everything went through rigorous tests. Be it when this equipment was ready to be packed and shipped, basically, it would have to go to freeze camera and it will be turned on and it will have to work from plus 50 centigrade to minus 30.
43:45Heath Drury:And you open the door then and because it has to run control test and if test run if you if everything shows zero on display so it's good to go if it's not zero if it has error it has to go back and be redone again so this is when i first noticed what was the difference between what's made for arm and what made for public public consumption i worked there for a year and a half and i didn't like it much and then just i move on and basically I work at university. It was a forestry university, and I was working at a computer center, but it was an old-fashioned computer center. We had this huge room and this huge computer, basically took an entire room, and we have perforated cars and magnetic tapes for memory.
44:42Heath Drury:And this is where my next job was, and in 1983, I got a letter in the mail from military recruitment office and I was invited for interview. And then when he gets this letter, you would have to sign for it because the postman delivered in hand, but he passed at the door. He wanted to be sure that I acknowledged. He wanted to have my signature, my acknowledgement that I received the letter.
45:17Ihor:And what did that letter invite you to do?
45:21Heath Drury:I basically have to come to our recruitment center at such time and day for interview. And that's it. And it was like three days later, I show up for interview and they ask me just like general questions. if I have any relatives abroad then, so what's no? And the guy said, oh, it's good. And then they asked me, so, comrade, would you like to serve in Soviet military for two years? It's a great job, you'll be an officer, you'll get good paycheck. And I learned before that you cannot say no because you will go anyway, but they will send you not the most variable place and I said it will be an honor I like to serve and the guy said okay here so just go back to your HR department and they will take care of everything and each HR department had what they call first section and first section was usually HR person but who was liaison with military and they were usually retired army officers.
46:40Heath Drury:And they walked to HR. They said, oh, it's great. Congratulations. And you will see what real life looks like. You will be defending your country. And I pretty much, in no time, I got everything. I got all my papers from work. And three days later, I was on basically pack my things. They told you, take all necessity, change your clothes, because when you arrive, you will get military uniform and everything else. And I was on the train from Ljvěr to Vilnius, Lithuania, because the training facility where my papers were to arrive to Šaulaj, which is a smaller town outside of Vilnius, Lithuania. And this is where training started.
47:36Ihor:Yes, you've guessed it. You're going to have to wait for next week's episode where you'll hear about Ihor's entry into the Soviet Army and his military service with the Ministry of the Interior. Do make sure that you're following us in your podcast app so you don't miss that episode. The episode extras such as videos, photos and other content are available via a link in the episode information. the podcast wouldn't exist without the generous efforts of our financial supporters and I'd like to thank one and all of them for keeping the podcast on the road the cold war conversation continues in our facebook discussion group just search for cold war conversations in facebook thanks very much for listening and look forward to seeing you next week
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From the publisher
Born in Lviv in Ukraine, in 1958, Ihor grew up in a city where borders shifted, but memories endured. In this episode, he recalls a childhood shaped by silence, censorship, and family stories that could only be told in private.
While official history came from Moscow, a very different past survived in the countryside—passed down by grandparents who had lived through empire, war, and occupation.
This is a unique personal account of what it meant to grow up in Soviet Ukraine in the 1950s and 60s.
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