The Cambridge Five - new files reveal untold stories (462)

30:10You can see some of the material that the Soviets read and took seriously because we had access for a while to the Soviet archives, largely through the work of the intelligence historian Nigel West, who got some grief actually because he didn't speak Russian and he was minded while he was in the archives. those archives. But actually nothing he's brought out of those archives has ever been disproved when other flickers of things come through. So we have that, but we can't always make the really strong link between the access and then the end result of Soviet actions. Because there are so many stages, the stuff's got to get to Russia, it's got to be read, it's got to be passed through Stalin.

30:55And Stalin's mind is a mystery, you know, to greater historians than us. So yeah, the atomic spy story is complicated because when Cairncross passes the information it does take a long time for the Soviets to actually grapple with how important this information is and to start really ramping up their program. But also within Soviet intelligence there's some suspicions that the five are double agents they're actually working for British intelligence. Yeah so there there's a couple reasons why a number of people in the Soviet system begin to get a bit suspicious of the five mid-war. So one is that they have such incredible access to stuff that the Soviets can't believe the stuff they're seeing because it's such high-grade intelligence.

31:49Number two is that you mentioned Bentink Street, but so Burgess and Blunt live together in Bentink Street and it's flat just behind Oxford Street. And Guy Liddle, who's like head of counterintelligence at MI5, he stays on their sofa all the time, a bit of Rothschild's in and out. The Russians can't believe that there's this kind of cosy relationship between all these top-level intelligence people and they're just in and out of each other's houses drinking gin and that it's not all deeply suspicious. And then the other part of it is the Russians keep saying to Blunt and Philby, right, tell us your operations against us.

32:32And Blunt and Philby both say there aren't any. And the reason they say that is because there weren't any. We were not spying on the Soviets really until right at the end of the war, until 1944. And the reason we weren't spying on them is because there was a kind of slightly naive sense that you don't spy on your allies. This is an over-exaggeration. We were spying on them, but nowhere near like they were spying on us. and then Blunt would tell them things like oh yeah we only have the capacity to tap a few phones and we don't work weekends and Soviet intelligence now you're lying because the Soviets then as now have an outsized kind of idea of what the British are capable of and up for so when we were disappointing them they thought they were lying but again it's slightly more complicated because there was one person who was really anti the five and not all of the five either mainly Philby and Burgess and Blunt and her name was Elena Modrasinkaya.

33:27I can't really say her name but that's an approximation. I'm glad you had a go. Yeah even within the KGB like not everybody agrees with her assessment so her boss isn't sure and thinks that they may be okay and they keep getting their information anyway and then they lay little traps for them little tests to see if they can work out if they're true. There's another reason of course which is that Anthony Blunt has fought access to everything about the double cross operations against the Nazis. So that once the Russians realise that the British are running double cross operations, they're like, aha, maybe this is a double cross operation.

34:04And of course it wasn't. So there's a period where not all of them are entirely trusted, but their information is still getting through and still being used. And if it can be verified from other sources, they're just a sort of wariness about them. But it doesn't last very long. And it's not institutionally, it's not the whole of the KGB that distrust them. And the volume of stuff that they are sending out is phenomenal, particularly McLean in his early days. And I guess this is the other thing that the Soviets are suspicious of, is they can walk out of MI5, MI6 with briefcases or the foreign office with briefcases full of top secret information.

34:43But with McLean, he's bringing out so much information. I think that the Soviet photographer has a nervous breakdown trying to deal with all of this work. Yeah, his hand at that point in the early part of the war is like literally weeping and sending telegrams to Moscow saying, I can't deal with all of this information. And there's an amazing bit in the autobiography of their later handler, who's a guy called Yuri Modin. And Modin starts his career in Soviet intelligence as the guy in Moscow reading the stuff that the five are sending to Moscow. and he's there's just like piles of it and they just and he says sometimes we were overwhelmed and we just pick a piece of paper at random off the top and then tell ourselves we would get to the rest of it the next day but we might not ever get to it that's another reason why some of it might not have got through and john can cross at bletchley park the way we've got john can cross at bletchley park and every sort of every sort of like day or whatever it is the top secret stuff from Bletchley Park travels by train to London in a like buff coloured box and only Churchill's got a key at one end and somebody else has got a key at Bletchley Park and it's like oh whatever and meanwhile John Cancross who's working as an interpreter is just picking the German decrypts up off the floor stuffing them down his trousers walking out yeah you can see why the Soviets began to be a bit raised eyebrows about all of this but yeah huge amounts of stuff huge like tens of thousands of documents.

36:11Again, like it goes in waves of access and when they're most important. But yeah, like piles of documents. And so the most, the really urgent stuff, most of it just goes over land in like diplomatic bags. But if it's incredibly urgent, it's telegrammed from London to Moscow. And then in 1944, Donald McLean is posted to the Washington embassy. And then anything urgent that he gets in the US goes straight to, goes by telegram. And that's one of the ways, we'll talk I'm sure about these telegrams being broken, but that's one of the ways we can work out what's important to the Soviets and what isn't.

36:51Because when you can see that it's gone by telegram, you know that it's important to Stalin because these are his henchmen trying to please him. So they're getting this information to him quickly. During this period, they're feeding Stalin information on the West's reaction to the Katyn forest massacre where the Soviets have murdered thousands I think of Polish officers and intelligentsia there and by passing that information that Stalin's able to recalibrate how he's negotiating with the West there it's these hidden sort of they're not hidden details but it has massive implications for the people of those countries particularly in Poland, because Blunt is also involved in this, providing details about the Polish resistance movement in Poland.

37:45Yeah, this is it. When you look at what's important to Stalin, occasionally you can see things getting to his desk. And so much of what he's interested in is Poland, right? Poland is a real bugbear for him. He wants it. He wants to keep it. So there are various ways we can I think one of the really interesting ones is 1942, there is a negotiation for an Anglo-Soviet treaty, which is framing how they're going to be allies and the transfer of equipment and money from Britain to help the Soviets fight the war. And both sides really want this treaty. The British go into it absolutely determined that they're going to get some words on Baltic and Polish sovereignty.

38:23The Soviets go into it absolutely determined that the British can do one, right? they're not going to get these fine words and then amazingly we have so Guy Burgess was getting chapter and verse and all the detail day by day on the British negotiating positions on that during the treaty negotiations he was getting them from a kind of guy he was running a sub-agent in the news department called Harry Smollett and then he was passing this on so every single time the British go into a negotiating room, the Soviets know the British position. If you're negotiating a deal, you've got the position you put on the table at the first point, right?

39:04You've got the backstop position, and then you've got your secret position that you're not going to reveal unless you absolutely have to at the end. And you can see in these transcripts of the stuff that Burgess leaks to the Russians, to the Soviets, that they have all of those positions. They know them all. So they completely out-negotiate the British, and they end up with no words at all in the treaty about Polish borders or Baltic sovereignty. And this happens again at Tehran and it happens again at Yalta. It's just, you can see it right from the beginning. And then again, yeah, with Katyn.

39:35So 22 ,000 Polish officers are murdered in the forest of Katyn by the Soviets, right? And the Germans, when they find the mass graves, make a big song and dance about it. And the Allies then are in a quandary, right? Churchill is in a quandary particularly. He's gone to war ostensibly for Poland. He is rhetorically a great ally of Poland. And now he is faced with a situation increasingly where the demands of Stalin and the needs of his Polish allies are in conflict continually. And Churchill is getting cross with the Poles because he feels like it's beginning to be their fault. They don't know what the Poles were supposed to do, just roll over, and they wouldn't.

40:21And Catherine's important because thanks to Philby's reports on it to the Soviets, the Soviets know that Churchill knows that it was them. But Churchill is ostensibly accepting Stalin's, you know, blandishments that it was the Germans. And this kind of thing matters because totalitarian regimes need people to buy the lie publicly. They need people, prop them up by being part of the kind of general kind of, yeah, the lie. So Churchill knowing the truth but agreeing to lie is quite seismic in the Polish-Russian relations. And not just in the moment, but it stands as a emblematic moment for how all of that plays out, that Stalin perpetually provokes Churchill to accept the lies.

41:14He can see all the background misery that Churchill feels accepting the lies because he's been passed it all by the fight. Incredible, incredible. The major coup for Philby, though, is he becomes head of Section 9, which is the Department to Catch Soviet Spies, which is incredible. But I'm always interested in the role of Jane Archer here because she is, I think, MI5's first female officer. and she gets moved into section nine and philby is concerned because she had interviewed kravitsky the soviet defector that we mentioned before and she had been told about a young english journalist who soviet intelligence has sent to spain and during the civil war and he's worried that the link will be made.

42:14Yeah, he's nervous of Jane Archer because she's very good. And what he does, as soon as he gets into Section 9, which as you say, is MI6's Soviet counterintelligence unit, it's extraordinary. Even that, pause on that fact for a second. The man in charge of Soviet counterintelligence at the end of the Cold War, when it's becoming obvious we've got a Stalin problem, is a Soviet spy. It's unbelievable. Anyway, so the first thing he does is start trying to make the department look effective while being ineffective. So he's worried about Jane Archer. But luckily for him, she thinks that the spy that was named by Kravitzky, she thinks it's a guy called Edmund who's actually died in the war.

42:58So she is convinced that problem has gone away. But that doesn't mean that she won't remember once if Philby is too good at being crap at Soviet accounts of intelligence. And the other reason why I found Jane Archer's world really interesting is because, so this is a period at the end of the war, 1944, where all over Europe, we think of the end of the war as a clean thing, right? As a moment where everybody goes on the streets and snogs a sailor. But like across Europe, the ending to the war was not clean, right? There were little partisan wars all over Europe. People in the lands coveted by Stalin, there were men and women who'd been fighting the Nazis and now they were turning their attention to try and fight the Soviets because they wanted sovereignty for themselves.

43:44So one of Jane Archer's jobs for Philby at the end of the war was to identify any kind of partisan groups that she could that were operating in Europe that might become a problem for the Soviets. Now of course the British wanted that information but so did the Soviets. so we can be pretty sure that anything that Jane Archer found and she was an effective intelligence agent that would quite likely have gone to two masters so in that ending bit of the war where there's already a kind of a little bit of a shadow war where the British and the Americans are trying to arm non-communist partisans in various unstable places and the Soviets are trying to do the opposite Philby's right in the middle of all of that and he's just messing, like meddling and also sometimes doing really cruel things like he goes to Germany and he interviews Soviets, prisoners of war in Germany and then anything you can find out about them he passes on too but what is it, something like half of all the Soviets, prisoners of war who went home to Russia were killed or sent to the Gulag.

44:57The ones who knew they were going home started killing them and the The camps were ramped with life with suicides. And Philby was going in there interviewing these men and anything he could sending. I mean, the callousness is breathtaking.

45:11Antonia Senior:Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel, maybe. Or a white chocolate mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task. unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them.

45:46With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. and the callousness is not just with his spying because in in 1940s married aileen furs and the books in the past have generally said she was unstable she was mentally ill and she eventually commits suicide but there is some doubt as to whether it is suicide and whether she's killed herself and certainly Philby treated her incredibly badly. He did and Eileen has had a really bad press. Poor old Philby with his mentally unstable wife. But Philby, I don't like retrospective ill-informed psychoanalysts by historians so I didn't put this in the book.

46:37But Philby's obviously some sort of sociopath right? To be able to be as cruel as he is and to be as callous as he is and to talk with the glee that he does about the men that he sends to his death their deaths right there is something cold and dark at the heart of Kim Philby and she is married to that right and she can see him and not only that the point where she has her major breakdown is when they are stationed in Istanbul and she has Guy Burgess living in her basement she has five four kids under six or something Kim Philby as her husband and Kim Philby's mistress living in the attic like I feel quite sad for Eileen so she does have a number of breakdowns and she does some bizarrely and it's all very cry for helpish and yeah so she commits a suicide in the late 50s And one of the files that emerged in that 25 file dump that we talked about was she was seeing a psychiatrist before her death.

47:44And we know, by the way, that in this period, Philby was treating her very badly because he was being watched by MI5 throughout the 50s. And what seems to be happening, according to these files, is that Eileen would basically get to the point where she was like, I can't bear it. I'm going to tell MI5 everything I know. And then Philby would suddenly be really nice to her, even though he had at that point yet another mistress on the go. and then he and then once she calmed down and had stabilized and said okay i'm not going to tell anybody she's pathetically grateful that he's being nice to her and nice to the children then he starts being horrible again and the mi5 watchers describe him treating her with with horrible brutality and these are not like the cuddly woke policemen of today right these are mi5 guys in the 1950s if they say you're being brutal you are being brutal so she's seeing a psychiatrist and as soon as she commits suicide her psychiatrist writes to her gp and he demands that the gp check her body for puncture wounds the psychiatrist who knows all the secrets of the philby marriage is convinced that philby has either murdered her himself or had her murdered um and yeah it doesn't seem that the gp did it and actually funnily enough as well peter wright puts it in one of the in one of the released documents there's a interview between peter right and Anthony Blunt later on and Peter White says to Blunt do you think Philby killed his wife?

49:03Blunt said I don't know but he's definitely ruthless enough to have done it Wow, wow what happened to the kids because Philby certainly wouldn't have been looking after him after the death of his wife Yeah so they stay in Britain with Eileen's sister Melanie Leroy and actually to be fair to Philby and I'm not often fair to Philby his letters home to his children and his concern for his children do seem very loving and unfeigned it's a it feels almost weird reading them because it's the moment where you actually feel some sympathy for it and there's one point where Philby's own sister writes him a letter saying um listen the children are bullied at school because of you they're unhappy because of you.

49:52None of them really understand why you've left them. I think maybe you should stop writing to them. This is destabilising. They're unhappy for the children. And then the older one even goes off the rails a bit. He gets arrested for breaking into an off-licence a bit later on. Yeah, it's a bit, it is sad. They're victims too, actually, because their mother's dead and their father's in Moscow. And they're being bullied at school because everybody knows their dad's a traitor and a spark. I did interview Charlotte Philby a while back about her grandfather and her visits to see him in Moscow. And it was interesting.

50:26You got a sort of different side to it. And I guess everybody has a different side to their family, to other things. But he was her grandfather, Grandpa Kimsky, I think they used to call him. I'm sure Charlotte Philby has her own memories of it. But in the files, and you see the letters when it's still raw it's very raw

50:53there'll be a link to charlotte philby's interview in the episode information do check that out well worth a listen the cambridge five starts to unravel with the venona decrypts can you just briefly outline what that is yeah the americans are running this top secret project called venona and this is based on the fact that soviet intelligence uses one-time pads to send messages across between its embassies and moscow to encrypt the messages and at one point in the early 1940s the factory making these one-time pads duplicates a few right which gives the american code breakers a tiny wrinkle to allow them to get into the messages so at the end of the 40s they start working out uh so getting into some of these telegrams and then it takes them a while to pin down the fact that there has been a spy in Washington.

52:01They are able to get into the telegrams from 1944 and 1945, when Donald McLean was in the Washington embassy. And Donald McLean was unbelievably at this late stage of the war, when Churchill and Roosevelt were trying to do what they could to stop Stalin's power grab and land grab. Donald McLean was giving the Soviets the personal correspondence between Churchill and Roosevelt. So Stalin could see everything. And this is all in the telegrams that begin to be decoded at the end of the 40s and into 1950. So they're aware that there's a spy, they just don't know who it is, right? So their first thought in the manner of the British Foreign Office is it must be foreigners employed at the embassy.

52:49So they spend ages investigating all the foreigners, like the cleaners and the whatever. And then they begin to realise, OK, no, it really must be one of us. So the net begins to draw ever closer to Donald McLean. Now, in late 1949, Philby is sent to the Washington embassy as liaison with the Americas, as MI6 guy in America, liaising there. and rather unbelievably it is clear now from declassified files that Philby was put on the team to investigate who this top secret mole could possibly be so Philby's doing what he can to muddy the waters like he casts some shade on this guy called Gore Booth who is very suspicious to the British Foreign Office because he's a teetotaler if you can imagine such a thing so he's doing what he can to muddy the waters but eventually in sort of April 1951 it becomes clear to Philby that MI5 they're going to go for Donald McLean very soon and prior to that Philby has been working on the resistance movements in the Baltics and the Ukraine yeah and Albania yeah And Albania as well.

54:13In fact, I've just done an interview with an author who's just written a book about CIN. Stephen Long. Yeah, I listened to it and I've read the book and it's brilliant. And he and I disagree on how far Philby was responsible. But yes, brilliant interview. Brilliant book. Do you buy it? Disagree agreeably, I think. Yes. There'll be a link to Stephen Long's interview in the episode information. Again, that's well worth a listen for his views on Philby's involvement in the betrayal of the Albanian resistance. Philby has been working on Albania, and obviously he's feeding some of that information, or if not all of that information, to the Soviets.

54:56And it's then getting routed to the Albanians and the MGB, as it was then in the Baltics and the Ukraine. And that's where your book opens as well with the description of those initial missions. It's a great opening to the book. And I think that this is where you highlight the cost of aspiring, the human cost, the personal cost of betrayal of friends. and when you total up that bill, it is huge, the implications of what, just five students from Cambridge University, the damage that they did. Yeah, absolutely. Both diplomatically and on the ground. There were two ways that they served Stalin's project.

55:48One was, as I say, giving him the edge in all the negotiations around what he was doing to consolidate his control in the East. And Donald MacLean... the personal correspondence of Bruce Valt and Churchill. Another of my favourite Donald McLean moments is when they set up NATO. They know how sensitive NATO is going to be to the Soviets. They know because we can see how sensitive NATO is to them today. So they have the initial discussions in a lead-lined room in the basement of the Pentagon. And they don't invite the French because the French are really leaky. And nobody's allowed to take notes.

56:26and the man who is charged by the British embassy in Washington with leading the British negotiations over the creation of NATO is Donald McLean. So Donald McLean is in the room, right? It's unbelievable. And then you've got the second strand, which is on the ground, this Philby portraying absolutely every operation that he can from Ukraine to Albania to Lithuania. And I go into all of that in great detail in the book can I use the Albanian secret police files to flesh that out and the Lithuanian files as well, which really helped me get a grasp on how the Soviets used basically Philby's information and kind of hyper-local anti-counterintelligence on the ground, the two things combining to basically totally flatten resistance across Eastern and Central Europe.

57:19Yeah, I think they were seismically important. I guess the obvious thought counter-batch is without them, would Stalin still have had an empire? And my argument is basically the single most important reason why Stalin ends up with an empire is the Red Army boots on the ground. And you can't get away from that. This is what matters. however he did have to consolidate that control and turn it into lasting political control and in the way that it did happen and the way that he did manage to do that the Cambridge Five were incredibly helpful and useful to that project.

58:01Antonia Senior:Hey it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for$15 a month is back so I thought it would be fun if we made$15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months, $90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Absolutely. So we go back to Washington.

58:39McLean is there. the Americans are on his trail Philby's there Incredibly Burgess is there as well raising merry hell in Washington getting a rest or getting the speeding tickets and all sorts and Philby realises that McLean's time is up Yeah, McLean is in London at this point he's been sent home from Cairo in disgrace as a terrible alcoholic and then is promoted to the head of the American Department. Burgess is in Washington because he got in trouble for being a terrible alcoholic, so he was promoted to join the Washington embassy. He makes a terrible hash of his time in Washington. It is not entirely clear if Burgess faked the last showdown that got him sent home in disgrace, which involved, as you say, like a car and a boy and alcohol, or whether it was just coincidence and happenstance that he is still not quite clear.

59:42So he goes home and he tells McLean, you are being watched. Your time is up. Now, absolutely amazingly, we now have all the reports from the MI5 watchers who were watching Donald McLean in the days leading up to the defection. So he'd been quite well behaved before Burgess's return. And then we know the day that Burgess told him. They don't know that it's Guy Burgess, but they know that he goes to lunch with someone. They know. They then watch Dorma MacLean get absolutely rolling drunk. They watch him end up in this bar in Shepherd's Market in London, which I've been to, it's still there. where he gets even more drunk and he ends up basically with a woman called, that they call, the MIFO called Kay.

1:00:36And then the night that he finds out he's about, his entire life is about to implode and he's about to be arrested as a Soviet spy, Donald McLean is watched getting into a taxi with Kay and heading off into the night. And the MIFO watchers say they're not entirely sure, but they think that Kay was sitting on Donald McLean's knee. So that's how he responds. Meanwhile, his wife, Melinda, who knows all about him being a Soviet spy, is at home and eight and a half months pregnant. Although possibly not with Donald McLean's child, I discovered in the course of my research. It was possibly somebody else's.

1:01:12But anyway, I don't know if McLean knows that. So, yeah, there we have it. He's told. And then for the next two weeks, MI5 are watching. And we have all the reports. we have them getting deeply concerned about Guy Burgess because they work out who he is and Donald McLean and him keep meeting they're looking agitated and conspiratorial we have an unbelievable document where the MI5 watchers they know that Guy Burgess is good friends with Guy Liddle who's their boss right he's at this point he's deputy head of MI5 they go to Guy Liddle and they say look Guy Burgess keeps meeting Donald McLean and they're looking really dodgy and really conspiratorial and Guy Liddell says oh that's just Guy that's what he's like so MO5 just stop worrying about Guy concentrate on McLean so the MO5 guy isn't entirely sure about this so he goes to the head of security at the foreign office a guy called George Kerry Foster and he says to Kerry Foster we're worried about Guy Burgess.

1:02:11Kerry Foster says Guy Burgess always looks mad just ignore him concentrate on McLean so when a day later they see Guy Burgess in the street holding his head, like literally pacing up and down, looking like he's going to kill someone. They just leave him to it. The very next day, McLean and Burgess. Defect. Yeah, extraordinary scenes. But that's the whole story of the Cambridge Five, is it's just guy being guy. People always get drunk. The amount of alcohol that's consumed in this book is phenomenal. and it's chaps just don't spy for the communists you know they just don't do that i know there is so much booze in this but in that i actually i'm an enthusiastic boozer but i actually stopped drinking for four months because i just was like so like irritated by their constantly appalling behavior and i was like oh god these middle-aged people getting drunk and behaving appallingly i I thought, I don't want to be like them.

1:03:14So I actually came off it. There's one night in Istanbul where Burgess and Philby and Philby's mistress, Esther, drink between them 52 brandies in one session. Wow. Wow. I'm sure you were intoxicated by the details you were getting from the National Archives and the Albanian Archives and Lithuanian Archives to need any alcoholic stimulation there. Pretty much. There is so much more in the book. We've skated across the surface of what's in the book, but there is a lot more. I found it a really good read. I learned a lot about the Cambridge Five that I didn't know. And I've read quite a few books, as you can imagine, being Cold War Conversations.

1:04:00And it was fascinating, tragic, funny, shocking in so many ways. But it definitely comes Cold War Conversations recommended. what i'll do is i'll probably add a proper outro to that rather than do that one you've just done okay i'll leave that one in but that was great fun i really enjoyed that we covered quite a lot hopefully you enjoyed it as well i did it's lovely to talk to someone who really knows the stuff want to learn more don't miss the episode extras such as curated videos photos and other content just look for the link in the episode description special thanks to the generous efforts of our financial supporters who keep the show on the air if you'd like to join this select band go to coldwarconversations.com slash donate the cold war conversation continues in our facebook discussion group just search for cold war conversations in facebook thanks very much for listening and see you next week

1:05:37Antonia Senior:The End Uh, sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice. Ugh, I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. Not enjoying the ads? Well, you can avoid them by going to coldwarconversations.com slash donate by becoming a monthly or annual supporter. You'll enjoy ad-free listening, become a part of our community, receive the sought-after Cold War Conversations drinks coaster and bask in the warm glow of knowing that you're helping to preserve Cold War history.

1:06:24Just go to coldwarconversations.com slash donate for more information.