Trust but Verify: When the Soviets Came to South Dakota (427)

26:04And we looked at each other. And my first thought was, wow, we have won the Cold War. Okay.

26:15Dennis Greene:How do we get our men? We had women, too, but they said men, of course. How do we get our men to work all on time like that? How does that happen? Because they have problems with that. They don't show up on time. Half are drunk on vodka. Okay. And we just told them this is sort of how it works. You know, it's our military standard. And it's I mean, we were talking pre ABCs, not even ABC, nowhere near XYZ, but pre ABC. Right. Those are the level of questions we'd studied for all this technical stuff to tell them how this worked and this gadget, you turn this gadget, this happens and blah, blah, blah.

27:03They weren't interested in any of that. OK, it was those type of questions. And another thing that really stood out to me was when we gave them a tour of the building, we had a place, you know, a dispatch, right? When the trucks go out, we have to have a place that handles the dispatch and this, that and the other. And, you know, it was like a mini command post in there, but it was mainly a dispatch. And we would have airmen and maybe a junior NCO, like an E-5, be in charge of it. And they could not believe that we had an E-5 in charge of something that important. They said that would have to be an officer in Russia.

27:41That would have to be an officer. There would be no way that they would trust an enlisted person to run a dispatch. And that was the second thing that said, well, we really won the Cold War.

27:55Dennis Greene:Okay. If they can't trust their enlisted people to do a dispatch. Okay. So that visit was revealing. It was very, very revealing. And so, yeah, that's pretty much what I got from it. And it was a big deal. They did the verification. And had I stayed in missile operations, I was asked to be one of the ones to actually go to Russia to verify that their warheads had been removed. But I chose to move on. wow wow i mean it must have been really weird you know you see them you see this plain land and this was your enemy until well still potentially an enemy because the cold war isn't over at that point it's still you know the soviet union's still well it's on its last legs and you know to see these guys and you know basically show your operations to them it must have been a real i don't know it um i'm trying to find words to describe it well ian i would say the third thing that let me know that we won the cold war was they, I think they were more fearful than we were.

29:19I think our confidence instilled fear into them that they knew that they couldn't win this. Okay, because we were organized. We were confident. We had junior NCOs to where they would only have officers. We had cars that we didn't stage in the parking lot and food that we didn't rob from all the townspeople, right, to put into one place to make it appear as if we were well fed. And the realization of that struck them in a way that they knew that they weren't going to win this Cold War, that we'd won. So it was striking in a way because at the end of it,

30:06Dennis Greene:we as people were just friends. They respected us and we respected them. and that's when we did the button exchange. You know, they would cut a button off of there and we would exchange and cut a button and give them theirs and, you know, I shared a picture of that button that I still have to this day. You did and I'll share that in the episode notes. Did they speak English or were they using translators all the time? They had translators but they spoke English. Some better than others but they spoke English. They understood it. OK, if they didn't speak it, they understood enough of it. They were pretty clever.

30:47Dennis Greene:Some of them pretended like I don't know, you know, I don't. But we knew that they understood. Mainly because we were told that they understood. Right. You know, don't take these guys lightly. OK, because they're only going to send their best officers. They're not going to send, you know, ragtag somebody who they're going to send their best and brightest over to come do this. Right. so yeah and at least one of them would have been kgb as well right did they ask you other questions about life in the u.s i guess they must have been intrigued by they were blown things worked and yeah they were just blown away it it was obvious they were pretty much shell-shocked it was like it was almost as if the the lies that had been perpetuated as to how it was over here to boost them, it was like that whole thing just blew up.

31:45The reality, I think, was, I think the reality overwhelmed me. I really do believe that. And did you socialize with them at all? Or was it just business that you were dealing with them? I mean, did you invite them to your home or anything like that?

32:05Dennis Greene:No, we weren't allowed to go that far. OK, it was just business only because like you mentioned just a few minutes ago, we were still at war. I mean, I mean, Cold War. I mean, it wasn't over. Right. No, we weren't chummy buddy with them. The day was over. We went home and they went, you know, back to wherever quarters we had for them on on base. They didn't stay off base. They stayed on the base and they were closely watched. You can best believe that. You know, we had our security police watching them, making sure that they didn't stray too far. So they didn't get off the base at all. That was the only bit of America they saw.

32:49Dennis Greene:You know, if they did, Ian, I'm not sure. Maybe they might have organized a tour, but I can guarantee you if they were allowed off base, they were put on the bus and they were driven around. They just were not allowed to wander. That I can tell you. so perhaps public affairs may have shown them around town shown the black hills shown them mount rushmore whatever right or the badlands or whatever it was but um it definitely had to be as a group if they did i'm not i'm not sure whether they got off the base or not

33:24incredible incredible times that because you know i was i was born in the year of the cuba missile crisis so 1962 so you know i was in late 20s then and i you know you thought the soviet union was going to be there forever right never thought that was going to disappear and then first the berlin wall goes and then yes you know the red flags hauled down over the kremlin on Christmas Day 1991. Incredible times. So you've effectively been a turkey voting for Christmas. Your job's disappearing. What happens to you next?

34:08Dennis Greene:Well, then for me, as I said earlier, for me, it was a four-year career broadening, right? So it wasn't a career career. It was a career broadening. I could do one of two things. I was encouraged to stay in the missile field, promised, you know, these wonderful jobs, but it was like, well, I don't know. And then if you recall, that was the time where we had the big drawdown and the military was offering a lot of money for us to leave. And so I looked at my options and I said, you know what? I think I'm going to take the bucket of money. And, you know, my whole reason for coming in the military was to get my education.

34:53And I had done that to, you know, to some degree, but I thought I would go back and maybe do, you know, something else with my life. But I wanted to stay into the reserve.

35:03Dennis Greene:So I actually said, you know what, I'll wrap this up and I'll go into the reserve and I'll, you know, make a life otherwise. And so I did that and I moved to Colorado and militarily, I joined the 302nd Airlift Wing at Peterson Air Force Base as an equal opportunity officer, EEO, for the base there, which was something completely and totally different again. And I mean, so I go from being an admin guy enlisted to an MWR guy, something completely different, right, to something completely different as a missile launch officer. And now I'm a EEO equal opportunity guy. I mean, how does that happen?

35:49Dennis Greene:I don't know, but it happened. So, yes, that was my next career move. What are you doing in your civilian life? You've got another job. Yes. In my civilian life, I'm selling insurance.

36:07Dennis Greene:So, yes, in my civilian life, I'm selling insurance in my civilian life. And, you know, which which isn't a whole lot of fun, you know, but it you know, it pays the bills. And I'm and I'm in the military, which was the fun part doing EEO work. so we're wandering a bit outside the cold war period but walk me through where you end up with the u.s military okay well from that eeo job i was named the company great officer for the year for the whole air force reserve because we did some great things on that base we were experiencing a lot of sexual harassment. A lot of people didn't know where to keep their hands.

36:55And so I was brought in to clean it up. Okay. So it sounded great on the outside, but really I was brought in to clean up that mess. And the fact that I had trained women in the missile field, I was one of the handpicked ones who could be trusted that way, made me a pretty good fit to train these knuckle heads on what not to do, right? And we did such a good job of it, me and my team, that we were the number one in the Air Force Reserve. And I was the number one officer, which got me promoted three years below the zone to major, to 04, and got sent off to Air Command and Staff College. And I said, you know, I met back up with Darje Dagenio, again, my buddy who I'd caught up with in rank, the one who said, you know, afraid to succeed.

37:41And now we're buddies and now we're peers, right? And after that, halfway through the school, I learned what my next career move is going to be. And I have to back up just a little bit because before they sent me off to Air Command and Staff College, because we've done such a good job in the EEO field, the wing commander says, Dennis, what do you want to do next? You kind of get to pick. I said, I said, boss, I don't care. I just want to get promoted and I want to be in command. I want to be a commander. I want to be in command. I don't care what it is. And he keeps pressing me and pressing me.

38:18I said, okay, sir, let me tell you this. I'll take anything you got, but I don't want to be a cop. Don't put me in security. Don't make me a cop. So of course, when I go to Air Command and Staff College, the command I get is a cop.

38:35Dennis Greene:So they make me exactly. you should have learned that trick from right at the start of your career Dennis you shouldn't have fallen for that one well I fell for it and so they make me a cop coming out of air command and staff quarters but not just any cop because I get to build the first reserve security forces unit in air force space command history right at Schriever air force base which is right around the corner from Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs. And so I'm the inaugural first commander. And I had the pleasure of building that unit personnel-wise, building-wise, construction-wise, everything.

39:19And I get to train the first batch of American airmen who fought in the Afghanistan conflict. They came for everybody. They took everybody and they didn't take me. They said, no, we don't need you. We don't need you. We just need the troops that you trained. But because of that, a three star general, General Lancelord, who at the time was the vice commander for space command, says, you're coming to work for me. I said, but I've got a job. And at the time, I was no longer selling insurance. I've been hired by the civil service on the outside. I said, sir, I've got a job. He says, you don't understand.

39:57You're coming to work for me. And so that was in May of 1999. And so I put that job on hold and I went to go work in headquarters, Air Force Space Command. And I wound up being the being the chief of space system security for the whole military. and getting promoted below the zone again three years early to Lieutenant Colonel. And that was being in charge of securing all of the ground assets that talk to satellites globally all over the world and be in charge of securing our launch pads on the East and West Coast at Cape Canaveral and Kennedy Space Center and back at Vandenberg Air Force Base where I went for missile training, where we also launched.

40:43I was in charge of of protecting those. And so the treaty negotiations that I was brought into the State Department to be a subject matter expert on is we've got these things all over the globe. We have to have treaties to have these things in place and they need the subject matter expert to tell them, what are we giving up? What can't we give up? And so I spent a lot of time in the State Department during those treaty negotiations, sitting in the back there, you know, giving advice and guidance. So so after that, I get picked to go to war college. To Air War College, another one year fellowship.

41:22And and and that went well after that year. I got a great promotion recommendation, but definitely promote. So I knew I was going to make 06. I knew I was going to make colonel from that. after war college, not only do I get sent to the Air Force battle lab, I get put back on active duty. But you made me sign in blood when I took all that money that I could never come back. I could only be reserved. Well, we need you back. We can tear that up and we can bring you back on active duty. So I was brought back on active duty in 2001 when I finished war college. and I spent one year at the Force Protection Battle Lab at Lackland, which is a place that does studies on force protection.

42:05What can we do to make it better for those out in the field? Did that for a year and I was supposed to have ended my career by going to finally going to

42:17Dennis Greene:Florida, okay, to be the chief of the Equal Opportunity Management Institute, which is a position that is handpicked by the office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Army and Air Force takes turns with O6s. And that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to go back to equal opportunity. I passed all the, you know, hey, I'm going back. I'm going to retire out of here. I'm going back to build this new building. It's right on the beach, right on Cocoa Beach, man. all the stuff that I, you know, I'm finally going to get to live it on my way out until war breaks out. And, you know, by the way, Dennis, we're going to pull those orders.

43:03You're going to Air Combat Command, ACC. We got other plans for you. And so I go to ACC. I'm on security forces staff for a couple of years learning. And the security forces, cops in the Air Force was the first in the wars supporting the Army. Before the rest of the Air Force got in, we had to figure out how those troops were to maneuver in and out and send them to war. So the Air Force Security Forces was at war before the rest of the Air Force went to war. And I was one of the ones who helped organize, train, and equip those security forces for those duties, right? And after that two years, after that two-year tour was up was when I was brought over to operations, to Air Combat Command operations, to where I was the only security ground guy working with a bunch of pilots, okay,

44:01Dennis Greene:who thought they ran the whole Air Force. And long story short there, well, I've got to tell this one story because the first week that I went over there, I was augmenting some other colonels who were on staff, but the Air Combat Command Contingency Action Center or Contingency Action Team or CAT Team, whenever an emergency breaks out and we call in all the subject matter experts into one place at one time to respond to it, you have a CAT director. That's a temporary duty until the emergency is over and then everybody goes back to their regular jobs. So I was brought there to be a be a cat director.

44:49And my first day on the job in operations was when the levees broke when Hurricane Katrina hit down in New Orleans. So the hurricane hit on a Friday that Monday. We were looking to see if the levees broke. And that was my first day on the job as director and I get a call saying that right after the levees broke and people were on their rooftops, sir, we have helicopters. This was one of our bases down in Florida. Sir, we have helicopters.

45:23Dennis Greene:We can go rescue those people. Give us the order. So the first two hours of my first day on the job as ACC Cat Director, a ground cop guy, not a flight guy, is giving the order to send helicopters to rescue people off of the roofs in New Orleans who were stuck there trying to salvage their lives. And that set off a flurry. I mean, a flurry of, I give the order because it's the right thing to do. During the training that I got, posse comitatus, military shall not go into jurisdictions. They pounded into us. So I knew at that point that this ain't legal, but it's right. Another one of those lessons.

46:20Dennis Greene:It's not legal, but it's the right thing to do in that moment. You know, I could have easily said, no, I don't have the authority to send them. It's not I've got to run this up the chain, but people are dying. Right. So what do you do? I gave the order. I was I was the officer who gave the order, who rescued people off those rooftops. And then I went and told my boss, the two star general, he says,

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48:17Dennis Greene:And so I'm sitting next to the two star. I'm briefing the four star general, the commander of ACC. Sir, this is what happened. I got a call. I sent the helicopters to go rescue the people. And then I shut up. and my boss, the two-star, shut up and the four-star leans back in his chair.

48:44Ian, you talk about a minute of nothing being said, of just a pause. My heart is beating out of my chest. I'm about to get canned. This is it. Okay. just please

49:04Dennis Greene:don't bust me down too far don't course marshal me too this is it and he took a deep breath he says good job green you're excused and I was gone but it was the right thing to do in that moment absolutely and so from that I was named a permanent cat director and long story short to, to kind of wrap things up. Well, let me go back on this a little bit too. Cause right after that, people sometimes ask me, Dennis, how come you didn't become a general? I was on track to be a general and I knew I was on track and I had the opportunity. And this is another one of these life lesson stories, right? I was on track to become a general, no doubt whatsoever.

50:01Dennis Greene:I'd been through, I was promoted below the zone. I was sent to all the right schools at the right time, all these things. And my gosh, here I am in a place to where I'm the only ground guy with all these flying guys, and I'm given all this responsibility. And, you know, surely we are priming this gentleman to be a general. And it just took the right position. And at the time, General Petraeus was a three-star running men sticky in Iraq. And he had requested two officers. He wanted an Army MP and an Air Force security forces guy to come work for him directly to help train the Iraqi security forces so that we can leave.

50:46Dennis Greene:Somebody had to train those security forces to protect themselves so we can pull out. So he says, I don't care which two, give me two, right? So the Army presented a name. Well, the Air Force, it went to the Pentagon. And this is one of the lessons of taking care of your people. In the Air Force, Chief Master Sergeant is the highest enlisted rank. And I had a good reputation for taking care of the chiefs. And there's another long story we can get into as to one particular chief who got into a lot of trouble, who I helped rescue. Because I remember when I had grace, right? Somebody gave me grace.

51:22I gave the guy grace and saved his career. Unfortunately, he later committed suicide.

51:29Dennis Greene:Another story. But the other chiefs remembered what I did for him. And those chiefs had influenced in the Pentagon to say, we think we know the colonel who should fill that billet to go work for Petraeus because they knew that that was the job. They said, you need to be a general because we need generals like you to watch over us. And so it came down, it came back with my name on it to fill that position. That was the position that would have made me a general, no doubt whatsoever, right? You go do that, you come back, you're going to be a general. But at the time, I was no longer married. I was a single father with my son, Daryl, the one who referred you to me.

52:20And at the time, Daryl was 16, doing what 16-year-olds do. And I was a single father taking care of him. And I went in and I thanked those chiefs for what they'd done. And I went into my boss to say, boss. I know I can say no only once, but if you let me stay, I got to take care of my son because if I leave for a year, I don't know what I may come back to. And I was glad I made that decision.

52:54Dennis Greene:So yes, I could have, but it was hard because it wasn't personally that I wanted to be a general so badly, but it was the people who believed in me who I let down. And that was the hard part of turning down that situation. And so going back to the beginning, when you asked me, had I experienced discrimination? I can honestly say that I'm one of these officers of color who had a shot, who had the opportunity, who turned it down, not vice versa. I was being pushed and promoted to be a general. And I'm the one who, for personal reasons, said, boss, if you let me stay, you know, But I just can't go.

53:37I can't do it right now.

53:39Dennis Greene:And so that was another life lesson, you know, and I was happy with it. And I thought that maybe after a year or two, because I was in 2005, I thought that after a year or two that I'd be gone, you know, OK, we're done with you now. but they asked me to stay for another six years. So, so I did my last eight years at headquarters, air combat command at Langley air force base. And I live right outside the gate. Now I bought my home here and my son, Daryl is doing well. And you know, it was just a blessing, but I know you said kind of keep it short, but that's, that's kind of how my career ended.

54:18Dennis Greene:And I found love again, right at the very end of my career. So I sent you the picture of my bride and me walking off into the sunset, you know, in June, 2011. It's a lovely photo. And you're right. You know, you put family first. Right. And with an opportunity like that, I can see how that, that for some people that, that may have been difficult because it's like, you know, where you've always wanted to go to, where you've wanted to be. And also this was going to be your overseas posting that you never got. It always, Ian, for the life of me, I could never get stationed abroad. I traveled abroad, but never got stationed abroad.

54:59Dennis Greene:You can't make this career up. Yeah, I'm not sure I would have chosen Iraq, really, as my agnostic is posting. But anyway, that is an incredible story you shared with me. I feel really grateful that you've done that. It's incredible for a black kid from Georgia, from a poor family, to make it with one foot on the step to being general. And you made that incredible decision. Yeah, and it was an easy decision. It wasn't hard. It was painful. It was painful because of the people I knew I would be letting down. But I'll just go on to say that I've just been so grateful, you know, for all the opportunities that I've had, because most people don't get these opportunities.

55:53Right. I kind of mentioned when I first left the Air Force and went into the reserve, I sold insurance and then I went to work in the federal government. I became a federal investigator for the U.S. government with the Department of Housing and Urban Development. and when I got called back on active duty, they actually held my job for 14 years until I retired and I wound up going back to finish the second career as a federal civil servant. And so I not only have one retirement check, but I've got two. And oh, by the way, you know, that insurance license, I worked now as a financial advisor. I never let it extinguish, right?

56:35And so that's sort of what I'm doing today. You know, all of those lessons, all those life lessons, all those things I've learned helped me learn how to work with people. And when people let you work with your finances, believe you me, they trust you more than they trust their pastor because you get into the nitty gritty of everything that they spend their money on. And and if it weren't for all those experiences, I don't believe people would actually trust me as much. And so it all comes full circle. Right. And so I'm just blessed and honored. I'm blessed and honored that you would have me on your podcast here.

57:10That's so, I mean, I didn't realize what a big deal it was, but you are a big deal in the U.S.

57:19I still can't get over that. I still can't get over that. So, Dennis, last question, what are tonight's lottery numbers, please?

57:30Dennis Greene:I don't know, but it's got to have an 11 in it because 11 was my favorite number, you know, playing basketball when I played basketball. So I don't know, but if you're picking lottery numbers, make sure 11 is one of them. Okay. Okay. Top tips here from Cold War Conversations. And I'm just incredulous they kept that job open for you for 14 years. Yes. That is just incredible. But that really shows how much you were valued. And as you say, all of these roles were helped by you just being good with people and respecting people, you know, all along the way. And I think, you know, that is, you know, one of many of the massive lessons that come from listening to your story.

58:22Hi, this is Rhonda in Virginia, and I support Cold War Conversations because I think the work that Ian is doing is critically important. I think it's vital to record the firsthand accounts of people who lived and experienced the Cold War because it illustrates history in a way that a book never can. So thank you so much for the podcast. It's my favorite podcast and I look forward to it every week. To be like Rhonda and help to preserve these incredible stories of the Cold War. As a monthly or annual supporter, you'll be able to listen ad free. you'll become one of our community get the sought after cold war conversations drinks coaster as a thank you and you'll bask in the warm glow of knowing that you're helping to preserve cold war history just go to coldwarconversations.com slash donate to find out more well yeah you know you don't really think about it until you think about it right i'm just a little kid from savannah Georgia and in my heart of hearts, it took Ian, when I was at Langley, when I made Colonel 06 and they call us a, you know, Jeeps, right?

59:35Because we're just brand new 06s. It took one of the contractors who was a retired Lieutenant Colonel who was working for me as a contractor. He says, Dennis, you need to understand something. You're a pretty big deal now. You're not that kid. And, you know, I know you're very humble and you think of yourself that way.

59:57Dennis Greene:But you're not. You you have to view yourself the way the rest of the world, the rest of the Air Force, the rest of everyone else views you. And it was a pretty big deal because when I went to operations, I think I may have mentioned that two star general who I work for became Air Force chief of staff, Dave Goldfein. He became the chief of staff over all the Air Force. And so now I know I've got a direct line to this guy. This guy knows me personally. I work for him. Right. And so when you step back and think about it, lots of gratitude. You know, when I go back to class reunions, particularly high school class reunions back in Savannah, Georgia, even the classmates in who made a lot more money, right, they became the doctors and the big attorneys, right?

1:00:47Dennis Greene:They all say, Dennis, when they hear just bits and pieces of my story, they all say, Dennis, I wish I would have done what you did. And I say, wow. That was the eye opener, right? Because I mean, you know, one friend right now was just talking to her yesterday. She makes$650 ,000 freaking dollars a year as an anesthesiologist, right? I mean, she's a doctor. She's got all the trappings, but she was one of my ROTC, you know, but she got out and became a doctor. but she says Dennis I wish I would have stayed in okay because of the experiences because of a lot of things so I'm just grateful I'm just grateful I'm I'm I'm grateful that my old girlfriend's brother came home that day with that brand new car the episode extras such as videos, photos and other content are available via a link in the episode information.

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