S23 Ep7: Thea Green MBE — Nails.INC founder & chairwoman: Nailing success — building a British beauty brand from scratch

27:24What a waste of time. I'll have to explain that all over again. You could have just said yes. That was a bit slow. I'll do it again. I never thought it was like me that presented badly or that the business had a hole in it. I was just, you know, I just thought, well, they just didn't understand it. I'll just have to go and repeat it again. Do you think that when you look back at that, because one of the things I talk to, you know, we talk a lot about insecurity and imposter syndrome. And I'm like a huge advocate for learning on the job and for having the battles yourself and to accept that there is no silver bullet from the offset.

28:04But actually the battles that you have and the scars that you gain are literally all there to make you a stronger. do you know what I mean it's like you become an athlete in your mind in terms of resilience and speed and what you can take on and then you learn literally learn go on this steep learning curve but then you also go through the lows that you never could have predicted correct and then yet somehow from that low you come out a better founder each time and you do and tell me about that and when you obviously will have young people or people coming to you wanting to start a brand and things do you have the same sort of feeling about actually you need to go through this yourself um I feel like the the best thing for me about making all those mistakes because the low comes because something's gone wrong right and it feels personal like yeah running your own business like when people say in a company it's like in your own business people say it's not personal like it's really personal like in your own business it's really personal which doesn't mean it's not professional it's super professional and it doesn't mean it's emotional they're different things I'm not emotional about it I don't cry about it or shout at anyone I'm not emotional but it hurts like it's in my soul and my heart like when it goes wrong I feel it and I feel an urgency to fix it immediately if not sooner than immediately like it's like immediate yeah and I what I do think about going through all that experience and today I don't think you have to go through quite so many of those knots because the world is that's the good news is it's digitally better hello you can just google it yeah it's just or you could just ask chat GPT now yes I mean just you and I were like do you know unless you knew someone who had done it or could help you no we didn't have anything but even finding a mentor and all that stuff today and I never had anyone really that you know kind of all the language all of it like you know you could you know people will help you yeah you know you can drop people like you and i an email and we'll probably ping it back and tell you the answer like you know that's like that's the reality you send us a message on instagram and we'll reply yeah so that's that's the whole different world everyone is so much more available to you through social and linkedin and you know i mean yeah you reply and respond to people yeah so i think you know you can get access faster what i would say is i'm categorically sure I've never made the same mistake twice.

30:29And I bet you haven't either. No. Well, hang on. I have hired a couple of assholes. Oh, that's not, but you didn't rehire the same arseholes. Oh, no, sorry. Okay, fine. That's the same mistake twice. I know we've definitely all hired the wrong people. That's an ongoing. That's when your gut's telling you, no, no, no, you still do it. But yeah, okay, no, I didn't hire the same arsehole twice, funny enough. So I think that's the thing about, for me, all those lessons, what I like about it, and I'm 49, What I do like about all those lessons is now I can smell it in the room when something's about to be like that.

31:01I go, no, no, no, guys, because you know the sequence of events. You know the chain of events. If you do that, this can happen. So let's watch out. Even if you want to go ahead and do it, let's just all have two minutes and just have this conversation because here's the pitfalls of this potential thing that we're about to do. So I feel like actually that toolkit is amazing and it is an amazing toolkit. and I thought it was a really helpful parenting toolkit, by the way, because it taught me not to sweat the small stuff. Yes. Running Nails Inc. really helped me as a parent. Yes, you're right. Because I think I could have been more of an obsessive, you know, parent, you know, because, you know, we're also, we all obviously want to, like we're all perfectionists, right?

31:42Yeah. And I wasn't a perfectionist parent in terms of wanting my kids to be perfect in any shape or form because I think I really worked out in my business that things just were so frigging far from perfect that I just don't think, I think it helped me. I've never ever looked at that and I think you're right I think you're right so very quickly on early doors with Harry it was all about quality not quantity of time and things like that and and actually I don't definitely think I would have thought that without my business no wow that's an amazing thing to think and actually it's so sad really because for the first few years of my business and having children I really beat myself up about that that you know failure of you're not in the office enough you're not with the kids enough there was no work from home shenanigans it was all just in the you're either here or you're you're not working you're either here or you're at lunch I mean that was the vibe um you're either here or you're at play getting your nails done yeah I mean there was no you know no I vastly encourage that but um exactly so I feel like that whole you know that that I think it's that's really helpful I think it just yeah I think it's a shame that I felt so guilty for those first few years, because I definitely did, now that I look back on it and go, I think it made me a better, it's made me, my parents, my kids would never say I'm chilled.

32:57So they'll literally laugh out loud if they hear it. I think it's made me a much more chilled parent. My kids would literally be like, you're not chilled at all. Because I'm always worried about everyone's safety. You're like lucky about Nails Inc then. Can imagine what I would have been like. Be a whole nother level. What would you say were some of those disastrous mistakes you made at the beginning? I mean, I read something about your naivety of understanding MOQs, so minimum order quantities. Tell me about that. Because people just don't think that these things happen to us. And you're like, oh, yo, no, they did.

33:29By the way, whatever's happened to everyone else, I'm sure I've done it and bought the t-shirt 100%. Yes, so I don't think I would have been able to change the MOQs, as in there is actually an MOQ to manufacturing nail polish in order for it to be profitable for the manufacturer. They won't run. So even now, if we're doing something for promotion, you can't do less than 3 ,000 shades, 3 ,000 of a bottle of a shade. So that's quite a lot when you've got one store and 50 colours. There's quite a lot of nail polish arriving in the stockroom in one delivery. Don't be, really, did that happen? In quite a small stockroom, yes.

34:06And of course it didn't fit. That's why I'm saying to you that was like my, oh, warehousing. I was like, oh, we're going to need a warehouse. That was interesting. And also once you open shop too, Like, you know, it's now we logistically need to move things around because Shop One really was South Alton Street. It was a good size store with its own stock room. It was actually quite an easy way to start retail. When you then start being in department stores or multiple stores, you've got to ship product in. That's what I mean. I had not, I know people honestly are going to think I'm like the dumbest person ever on this podcast.

34:38No. I hadn't really thought about logistics until I like started. Customers were snapping up your products. There were queues of women at the store ready to get their first experience in the nail bar. But when it came to scaling, you decided to partner with these department stores. How did that evolve? Because at the time, this is what I'm saying, when you're not silly at all, it was groundbreaking. It was. It was groundbreaking because it was a total win for the department store. And it was such a clever idea. Here, tell me about if someone's not piecing together what I'm saying, because you basically were opening more stores, but just in someone else's store.

35:17Correct. And it was a pivotable part of the business and absolutely, you know, the best thing that we could have done at that time. Opening standalone stores are also incredibly capital intensive. And you normally, as a non-known entity, are giving rent deposits. We were obviously opening in very expensive locations, South Malta Street, the city, Canary Wharf. So to kind of get to scale of that around the country would have just been, we'd have just been continuously raising money. Department stores is brilliant because they've already got their own foot traffic. They were very busy back then.

35:50They're probably less busy today and there's less of them, but they were very, very busy. They were the hub of a high street. Yeah, you had a captive audience, but the other thing it did as well, the best thing it did is it propelled the brand in terms of product because suddenly we were next to chanel s lauda bobby brown yeah so suddenly you go oh this is a real nail polish this isn't a one store yes you know the kind of initial sweet shop we're in one store and maybe we get like you know we attract office people and tourists because it's a one-off bespoke you then actually through department stores we became a beauty brand much faster than if we'd been high street you then are next to the you know the creme of the industry so that's what I think transformed the business and then allowed us the more profitable route of selling product outside of the department stores or sorry outside of the nail bars rather just as just into retail the company grew really quickly and I know within a couple of years your co-founder left the business so you were managing the growth of the brand during this period yes and I mean you really started something because the nail market in the UK basically exploded and Nails Inc.

36:54was thriving and you had new concessions, as you just said, opening. And it grew to become the largest and most successful nail bar chain in the UK. You've collaborated, I'm looking at pictures behind you, with the Victoria Beckhams of the world, Alexa Chung, Marks & Spencers, McDonald's. You were the first to launch a gel formula nail polish. You launched a spray nail polish. You've always been ahead of the curve and the sort of trends of the industry. how big of a role has innovation played and how do you keep basically innovating 26 years in I'm just interested like your take on innovation because you probably were the first to do a lot of things within this space so I really feel like nail polish for me was a canvas to whatever it was that was you know kind of in my head in terms of inspiration and it's remained that way innovation is my absolute favorite part of the job so creating product um with the customer in mind reading into trends of what's currently going on um what the customer wants is my absolute wheelhouse which i think might come from that magazine background like yeah what does she want next i like i think it's that journalism what will she you know what will i say she you know we're she or he but we are sort of you know very very female focused as a brand 90 our customers as a female.

38:13So I do think regularly, what will she want? What will she want next? Sometimes she knows what she wants. Sometimes there's something new in the market that you need to educate the customer on that she doesn't know she wants yet. So it can come from all different ways. But innovation fuels me. Innovation is the reason I wouldn't sleep at night, like in the best possible way. I probably don't not sleep because I'm worried about something. You know, when something is concerning in the business, I'll probably just still go and have a good night's sleep and wake up the next day and sleep easy and just go, I saw that in the morning.

38:42I feel comfortable that I'll fix it. Innovation is the one where I'm trying to like pinpoint, I want it to be like this, but like that, but that's not quite right. But that's the one, but it's enjoyable. I literally treat it as a sport. I love it. I love it. Whatever I do will always be that. I love it. It's like an activity for me. When you look at innovation and I feel that potentially it always goes, well, it can always go to the bottom of the list. Okay. And And so the actual time that it takes to build a business, run a business versus innovation and looking forward, looking into the future, asking those questions, because I'm sure you're having to work hugely in advance.

39:19Yes. And that relationship between our to do list and that future thinking, how did you manage that? Because I think sometimes what I noticed it for myself, it's the thing that keeps me going. So if I have to think about the energy in my Duracell battery that is within the founder, that's keeping the company going. Yeah. The energy that my battery gains is from innovating and building and being a mad scientist. And you're actually a scientist. I'm not, but you actually did do some chemical. You worked out I wasn't. I've got better at it. You've got better at it. But do you understand me? That is what fuels me.

39:58And I have to have it or I can't do this job. Correct. I'm the same. So then when the day-to-day gets so heavy, you know, of all the administration of actually building this business. How did you manage those things? Because I'm sure you would have been like me, like sometimes you were just flooded with not the good stuff. Yeah. And that battery was draining. Correct. How did you, in those 26 years, manage it? I think not immediately, but like you, I've learned over time that if I don't do that, the battery runs out. Yes. I'm not today, by the way, because my business is, you know, very well run with a really, you know, strong team in every department, you know, both in the UK and the US.

40:37But, you know, there's a kind of early-ish to midpoint where you are in thick of like operational stuff. Yes. And you can't really necessarily afford to hire all the right people. And you're training and teaching everybody and you're bringing in some experts. But even if you're briefing them, like, you know, who's the expert in the room? Are they or you? Like, no one really is 100%, you know, no one's really an expert. Yeah. So I think the innovation piece, I learned that if I don't do that, even just some element of creativity, if I don't do something creatively every day, I would be low in a business.

41:09I feel my energy dip. I feel my boredom. I'm kind of easily bored now. Maybe it's an age thing, but I can get bored. so I feel like I can get bored really fast because then otherwise, because the operational stuff is a repeat of things that you already know, like all these things go wrong and you get better and better at having less things that go wrong but it's kind of the same stuff. The reason innovation is so exciting is it really is new. So it fuels me because it feels like we're moving forward like you say and it's creative and I love thinking and I know you do too. I just love thinking about the customer.

41:47so it's it's not just innovation like me mad scientist let's come up with wacky things that no one wants like I've no interest in creating something that you don't want like I don't do things for fun I do it for you to go oh my god that was the best polish I ever used I'm never using anything else and I didn't even know I needed it but how did you know that that I do it for that if I don't get that it's obviously like you know like I need the accolade from the customer I don't get that I'm like oh if it's a duff I'm the first one to go oh my god it was a failure because if The customer doesn't, like, it's not a success because it looked great and we got good, you know, influence of coverage on it.

42:21It's a success of itself. Yes. Like, I'm really black and white about that. And through your innovation, though, you would have had to deal with copiers. So tell me about copying over the years. Because both in terms of the structure of the business and the products itself. Because I read that something that you said, which was don't worry about being copied, accept it as a true complement. but that's bloody hard to accept i don't think i really believe that that must have been me on a really good day it's really hard to accept it's a compliment i think i must have been really polite or naive scrap that no it's not a compliment at all it's bloody annoying i tell you what i did actually is i so for years i was the r &d single-handedly the r &d department for many big corporate nail brands that i know from my manufacturers because nail polish is chemical there's actually only a number, a bit like fragrance, there's a number of people that manufacture this for multiple brands.

43:16And you either come with your own formula and what you want, which could just be a list of things you want your formula to do, or a combination, or ingredients and everything else. And I know from my manufacturers of the big guys that requested my samples, which is even more insulting. They could have at least bought it before they copied it. And I know of people that have worked in those companies that have since said, yes, we always shopped everything, you know, that Nelsing launched. And so you couldn't ask those manufacturers, I know this is very naive, but you can't ask those manufacturers to keep your formula, your DNA under lock and key.

43:49My formula is under lock and key, but you can obviously buy it and copy a version of it, right? So like anything, a bit like fashion, you can make it different enough, but take all the good things. What I did was for a very long time, we were only sold in department stores. Yeah. And so the reason that we were fueling this, you know, R &D, I felt like we were the R &D department for the mass brands was because they were then sold in, let's say, in the UK, Boots and Superdrug. And genuinely, it took me years to work out because, you know, quickly enough. Well, I'll just sell my products, thanks very much, Boots and Superdrug and cut that off.

44:23Yes. And I did. I did that. And that's also the market also changed. The department stores were less popular. And, you know, there's a whole like rationale behind that. there's a recipe isn't there that comes to the point that you make that decision but it's now harder as well like it's a pea soup isn't it like you it comes to you it's not like a one moment you're like oh okay for yeah as you said it builds up one moment but now if i was you know now what you you know what you now know about your business is you know if like in america if we're selling our product in target and walmart and all the kind of large corporate competitors are in that environment well we've at least got a run for a year before they can launch it yes and then maybe we can build it up and they don't need to launch it or they don't want to launch it because we own that space and it's ours and so it feels much more ownable but also you know as i said it's it's more complicated than that because the consumer also shifted to that channel they they started buying nail polish in more mass environments than in department stores you know everything's shifted and does that then click into okay so this is happening so my relationship then with that brand or that department store has to become experiential it has to become i have to basically up my game yes to kill the competition because you became you're the bigger company yes exactly exactly and i think that's what we're still talking about isn't it i guess what we're saying is in those early years you are just on your tippy toes all the time coming up with and then this and then this and we have to watch for this and then there's something there and there's something behind me and there's something coming up at the left and there's something and there is just always something.

45:58Having gone through the journey, you really do understand why so many businesses fail. Yes. Because the level of highs, lows, resilience, determination, cash injection, right people, being also in the right room and getting an opportunity at the right time, a big old dollop of luck. All mixed in together. All mixed in together. It is, like you say, a recipe. Date. And any one of those things, so one of those things can be going wrong, but multiple of those things going wrong is really challenging in a new business, right? Yeah. So you can kind of cope with one at any time. But multiple things, and it takes me on to the pandemic.

46:33You know, shops were closed and everyone's staying at home and you closed your concessions and stores. But you decided to focus your energy into the retail side of your product arm and undoubtedly very smart decision. What was that time like? Was that very successful, obviously, for the products? It started negatively. Like, I remember sitting in this office. I sat, you know, next to my CFO, and we literally did the kind of, you'd have done these things before. Because, obviously, well, you know, we sat there, you know, with the P &L going, okay, so how long, if we've only got.com, NailsInc.com UK and NailsInc.com US, let's presume it's going to be 10%, 20 % better because people will only be able to shop online.

47:12So we knew it was going to get better. if we've only got that, how long can we survive as a business? Because by then, our biggest customer was Target, which was going to be closed. It was Superdrug in the UK, which was going to be closed. And we knew that Amazon was already putting messages out there saying we're going to be focusing on essential priority products, not beauty. They were already filtering that out. We were basically working out how long we could survive. And I remember we had like probably I'm going to say like a week or two maybe two weeks like that because obviously in those early days of lockdown you are only thinking about everyone's health and everyone was very nervous weren't they initially yeah gosh yes and then I just love women this is why I always love women because week three they went let's buy stack loads of nail polish we're bored we should be painting our nails we missed the salon and we should be painting our nails and then things did open up so i don't think target you know target in the u.s which was our biggest you know target in the u.s and sephora in the u.s didn't open up for a very long time but sephora.com in the u.s went wild like our sales on sephora.com were absolutely incredible uh qvc which is a big outlet for us came back it took a while to come back but it came back you know kind of second lockdown they were they were trading but it was like i mean with a lipstick you know still sold and during the war and these were the small weren't they it's the lipstick effect you know accessible ways that we can buy into fashion and things that make us feel good in a time where we're not feeling good yeah and you know recessions tough times this was that thing that you could buy what happened to you oh it was amazing it ended up being amazing i mean look by the way i hate i thought the pandemic was terrible and tragic in every shape and form and i'm really like being locked down was awful like some people say they actually really enjoyed lockdown personally i didn't enjoy lockdown at all i don't know about you i thought it was miserable but from a business perspective it was phenomenal for nails inc and the amount of product into customers hands and actually like the negative thing you would say about nail polish is you always need time to paint your nails yeah and covid that problem went away absolutely and it was i also think a lot of parents bought it as an activity to do with kids it was like baking it was another thing to do which is we're all going to paint our nails tonight.

49:31And, you know, mum, granny and daughter are all going to paint our nails different colours. And that's going to be what we do because we're not allowed to do anything. So I think it was really good. Did you learn anything that you've carried on from there? I think it's part of that. You know, we're talking about that kind of confidence journey. I think it was part of that confidence journey and surviving a difficult time because let's not, you know, pretend so many amazing businesses fell down at that time, right? brilliant brilliant businesses never reopened and so i think you do feel a badge that you survived it but i can't pretend it was difficult it was difficult for a matter of weeks for us and then it exploded like it was it was ended up being yeah you know we were worried you know we wouldn't be able to support the whole team you know we were we were hiring people during covid you know there was a whole lot of people we went back that were new people that we'd never met in fate you know face to face because that was the world you know you hadn't met before for months um i tell you what was hard though is in innovation was challenging i found innovation challenging locked up because there was no external things to be inspired yeah i thought i think that is hard to be it's hard to have forced innovation i don't know if you find the same i'm with yes so when i'm walking or free or on a plane or traveling somewhere on holiday like yeah when you least expect it can't force it right it come it comes when you sort of let yourself free think a bit it's difficult one to do at your desk so now i think you know innovation was challenging um sampling was challenging you know like getting samples touching products which is what you have to do in our industry yes um was hard it was three of us that would regularly come into the office pick up the samples look at samples test samples right because we we worked out you know is that do you remember there was a kind of which one there was an announcement which is if you can't do part of your job you can come into the office so we worked out ran in yeah we went yeah we went and did some sort of sampling stuff but nothing else you know i wouldn't take a call or anything in the office but like you came in and did sampling then you left again and it was so funny really i mean it was it's a bizarre thing and i think wild as as as many amazing like you said amazing brands that didn't make it the ones that did i mean we've had such an experience of the strength it has required or being able to, you know, we didn't have a plan.

51:54No one had a plan and we made it and we made it.

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52:50Today, Nails Inc. is one of our great British brands. And I know you sold the business last year, but you remain an integral part of it. Still working across the strategy, operations, non-stop, basically, still. It's taken everything for 26 years. That energy we spoke about, that Duracell battery is totally full still. I can see it from your glowing eyes, twinkly eyes. Not sure. We touched it before the podcast started. But when you look at the future, you're 49. Yeah. And we look at some, you know, we look at Bobby Brown starting Jones Road at 60. Yeah. It is quite amazing to see these women doing that.

53:30I agree. At 60, right? I agree. So that's 11 years time. So have you got it in you again? Yes, I've got it in me again. I'd be surprised if I didn't. not I wouldn't do something in the you know and you know you well know in these in these sorts of deals you've got all sorts of non-competes anyway so I can't compete with Nails Inc and I wouldn't want to I happily signed that piece of paper I have no interest in competing with my baby I want it to go and flourish and I'm continuing to support Nails Inc um anyway um it's like chairwoman and founders I'm carrying on supporting but yes I think I I love new and I love innovation and like I said to you, Nails has been a canvas for me.

54:10I think there could be another canvas and it would be a completely different product, I imagine. And I enjoy that. I enjoy that creativity. But this time you'd have a rucksack full of all your lessons. Yes, that's wonderful, right? That is, I feel like that and also, you know, you can't guide your kids too much because they need to make their own mistakes, their own decisions. But I feel like whether it's my team or my kids, but just generally younger people, because I'm sure you also love, you know, kind of help. We all love helping people. It's just that's joy as well, isn't it? Innovation is joyful.

54:44Yeah. Helping younger people, you know, stopping them from making a mistake or pushing them towards an opportunity that's going to be amazing for them or promoting them. Yes. You know, whether it's your own family or, you know, your friends, kids or, you know, people that work for you, that's really joyful. And so I feel like, you know, that's an exciting part of it as well, for sure. But yeah, I think the toolkit is hopefully there, not just for 2.0 business, but just there for anyone else to access. You know, I feel like I want to share that with my team, my kids. Like, you know, you just want to stop people from making an error.

55:21I know we have to make errors, but, you know, you make a lot more as a founder. Yeah. And they'll make errors anyway. I mean, they'll just make different ones. But at least you've given your, and I mean, that's such a generous spirit, by the way. Why do you think you have that spirit now? Is it because you've had the 26 years ups and downs and slightly don't want anyone to have to deal with that? I think so. I think you wear the scars, right? I think, you know, you said that before you do. And I think that you want to help people. I think also, like, for me, competition is great. You know, I'm really, really positive about it.

55:56You know, you could literally ask me for kind of, you know, I wouldn't tell you my magic formula of my nail polish, but I'll tell you pretty much everything else. you want to help people and maybe also you know I when I started my business I was in my early 20s and so a lot of people I employed were much older than me and certainly the advisors that I had around me were older than me anyone that you know offered any kind of you know kind of wisdom and I think I'm now that maternal figure in in Nails Inc and I really like it I really like the fact that you I really hope that my kids you know if they go and work in a founder business there's a maternal or paternal person, you know, giving them a bit of guidance and helping them.

56:34Because like, I also think it's actually quite hard to be a young person today. So I actually have a lot of empathy. And I think because I have, you know, three of my own kids, I do think it's really hard to be, it's hard to get a job. University is not thought of as quite the same way. So like, sorry, I'm supposed to go to university. I have to go to university, but no one really rates it anyway. Like, I think that's all a bit crappy. Go to university, but no one will give you a badge for it okay um yeah and then it's come out full of debt come out full of debt hard to get a job apply for a job that's way below you know you can't live in london no opportunity to get on a property ladder unless someone will help you yeah so i think it's quite hard to be young you know living further and further away probably if you're living in a major city then then we had to i agree commuting's brutal you know like who wants to commute for hours unless you've like you know got some amazing country house at the end of it like crappy commute to bloody hard work at the end of a long day yeah yeah so I think yeah I think I genuinely have a lot of empathy for young people I think it's tough I think it is really tough I know I know they've got chat GPT but they have got chat GPT and that is by the way a miracle but outside of that yeah I mean yeah exactly we can't feel too sorry but joking aside I mean that whole entire thing might be uh one of the reasons why they're finding it very difficult to get a job right so it's but lucky them for having you i i'm coming to i honestly i'm i'm sure everyone's agreeing that we could go on but um we've got businesses to go and deal deal with i wanted to ask um on this podcast we use the analogy that this entire journey your 26 years has been a roller coaster and i'd love to ask you could you pinpoint a low on your roller coaster A low was, so we obviously built up all those nail bars.

58:20And then after pandemic, we closed Harvey Nichols, which was a group that I had thought to get into, was so proud of opening across the Harvey Nichols group. And it was completely the right decision because Harvey Nichols didn't have the foot traffic that they used to. We were moving much more towards a product business than a service business. The whole economics behind a nail bar weren't stacking up in it. you know everything could change every cost that could have gone up had gone up and we weren't passing that cost on you couldn't pass that cost on at the same level you needed to to the customer they wouldn't pay it and so we passed it on to um another nail bar um chain so nailed it so all the you know team you know got rehired um so we didn't have to go through any redundancy we went through that kind of two-pay process which means everyone you know automatically gets rehired back which is fantastic and that was the main aim but it was it was I guess a a pivotal pivotal negative moment because usually the pivotal moments are quite positive where you just go well that's that's something I fought really hard to do and I slogged at it for years to make it profitable because it's actually really quite hard to make profit in Harvey Nichols or it was then and I I did and then there was a moment when you know my CFO had said it to me before pandemic he was like you know that the right thing to do is going to be to close this and i was like i know you're right i just don't feel ready yet and i i always wanted to make sure that the the brand was well established enough as well because yes you can close things and people then think you're out of business you know so that's yeah and it drips a negative yeah people think well that's closed and now it's closed because nail zinc was not closing nails was thriving so you that's the message and that's why it was sort of positive in lots of ways to have it with another nail bar operator to come in because then the services were still being done the customer was still getting their manicure no one was frustrated but nails inc could still go out and celebrate this is how we do it we've really become yeah we're now a product business where you're doing your own nails rather than a service business and tell me what would you say would be your high with wind through that beautiful blonde locks you've got i think um perfect nails i think high is probably two i love customers asking for products by name is like still a high for me like i love it when someone like asks for like it's still never like doesn't excite me like if you say i love you know scar you know our whole new range is named after ladies who say i love scarlet i'm like oh my you know i love that so i'm definitely still like the accolade yeah um but i think breaking the u.s and becoming that's probably the the you know the true one wow going into the u.s going into retailers like target and walmart taking nail polish back to where we originally got the inspiration from the US and playing with those big guys like being next to OPI and Essie and Sally Hansen and and being next to that you know and having gone through the experience of being originally inspired by them then copied by them to then sitting kind of shoulder to shoulder by them that my journey so it's good to that's a good experience what a way what a way that feels like a beautiful closing to this conversation as well I mean what a moment that must have been I can just imagine you standing there looking and going, we did that.

1:01:38That's, yeah, we did that. You are amazing. I'm coming to this point now where I know you've prepared a letter to your younger self. It's one of our favourite moments on this podcast. And thank you, Thea, for sharing a little bit of your soul with us today. I loved our time together. It was brilliant. I loved our time too. Absolutely amazing. Amazing. Kindred spirits, right? Yes, absolutely. Totally. handing over to you. Thank you. You're running around the fashion desk at Tatler, surrounded by the buzz of creativity, deadlines, and endless ambition. You believe that success is a straight line drawn by hard work and hustle.

1:02:16And in many ways, that drive will take you far. But what you don't know yet is that the most meaningful success will come from learning how to balance it all. You are unaware how your journalistic training, spotting trends of what the customer will want, communicating well with the customer will be your ongoing toolkit for running the business. You're concerned about magazines becoming digital and how that will change the industry, and that's the start of you trusting your gut. Keep doing that, as the mistakes you make later tend to be when you listen to someone else, supposedly wiser, more experienced, and not that trusty gut.

1:02:55Soon you'll take that trip to New York that changes everything. You'll be inspired by women there, polished and purposeful, unapologetically confident, and you'll bring that spark home. Nails Inc. will be born from the moment of clarity that women everywhere deserve to feel powerful, even in the smallest details. But what you can't imagine yet are the long nights that follow, the product launches, the searches to find the best team members, the airports, the boardrooms, all while being mum to your three children, who are your proudest creation of all. It takes you too long to work out that beating yourself up about trying to do it all doesn't work.

1:03:36And once you accept you're doing okay and juggling balls that will drop, you are more content. There will be moments when your heart aches when you close that front door and taxi to airports are often tearful. When you leave tiny hands behind to go build a dream that you've now convinced so many to believe in that quitting is never an option. You'll tell yourself it's all worth it, and it is. But you'll also learn that success isn't about doing it all. It's about doing it with purpose. You are the best at selling your brand. The true founder story from your heart is magic. And those major retailers from Sephora, Boots, Superdrug, John Lewis, Target, and Walmart move corporate giants aside for you and make space on their shelves for your brand.

1:04:23You don't pat yourself on the back as there is always something to fix. You'll juggle more than you thought was possible, baby bottles and business plans, bedtime stories and investor meetings, and the world will see your strength. Only you will know the quiet guilt that sometimes comes with it. You have setbacks, but you don't dwell on them. You become a great fixer, and that's really positive. As your children become teenagers, they'll grow up seeing passion and perseverance pays well. You will also find like-minded mums that celebrate your success. You lean into wellness and it helps your mind as much as your body.

1:05:00You cram in steps while on team calls or one-to-one meetings and realize how much it benefits you and your team. There will be voices telling you to slow down and others urging you to go faster. Listen instead to your own. You'll find balance not in perfection but in presence. In knowing when to put down your phone, when to hug tighter, when to celebrate the small wins as fiercely as the big ones. You will quickly need to understand all areas of the business, but as it grows, you will later work out what you are best at and you'll hire in the rest. Your team will become an additional family. They will believe in you as much as the business.

1:05:40They see your dedication and they match it. There'll be lots of late nights when the kids are sleeping and friends are having more fun, but you love it so you follow your own path. You meet everyone from the late queen to Victoria Beckham and many more. They all complement your brand and your entrepreneurship, but you only stay focused on the customer as that's your priority. And remember, your journalistic skills serve her and what she wants next better than anyone else. She is your only guide. Don't stray from her. Nails is a canvas for you. It could have been anything. You become skilled at creating innovation that your customers adore.

1:06:17You do it all from a magnetic nail polish to a spray cam polish to the first polish that doesn't need a base or a top coat. It's a lot and not everything will work. Try to celebrate the wins. More, it's easy to spend all your time on the problems. Your team admire your work style. It's fair, ambitious and driven. You don't ever blame anyone apart from yourself. You lead and nurture. You go from being the youngest in the office to the oldest. you become the mother of the office and it's a privilege to guide and promote such a talented team you sell the business and it's an achievement but you have already worked out what really matters before that the same family and friends cheer you on and support you and one day when your kids walk past a nails encounter in the uk or us they say that's mum's brand and your heart swells with pride that's when you know it's all been worth it every flight every late night every leap of faith so dear younger me keep dreaming keep believing and keep painting the world with your own color you'll build something extraordinary not just a brand but a legacy of creativity courage and community i'm tired today so i could be cheerful i'm just like i'm a little bit no i can't tell you you're a total taunt i said to you before this podcast i woke up this morning just having a bad day and just you do right we do it's you can you can have a really bad day when you wake up and I can't tell you you single-handedly have reminded me why I'm doing this and some of honestly I won't forget this podcast I really really won't you you're from baby bottles to boardrooms you know you've become a great fixer you you oh it's going to make me set off actually from because I was the youngest person in the office and now I'm the oldest person in the office What a privilege that is for us.

1:08:21It is a privilege, isn't it? To have that. And it's made you a better mum. I've never, ever, ever thought like that. How many mums are listening right now to take your words of courage and to take your words of wisdom, having been through there, and it'll set me off again, and your kid standing in front of your brand and saying, that's mum's brand. Just wow. Thank you. What a woman you are. oh what a woman you are honestly honestly my god that's killed me off right um so much love so much thanks i do feel you're a kindred spirit there's so many let's stay in touch absolutely oh forever and forever you can't get rid of me my god um but bless you for being on our podcast today i loved it and i love you i think everything you've done and you're doing is amazing honestly your inspiration and you should never have a bad day because we all look at you and just think you're phenomenal and people don't realize do they that so often we're all just peddling like everybody else yeah yes ones and up feet absolutely absolutely all day long bless you thank you for your compliments thank you Thank you for joining me today.

1:09:40If you've enjoyed this episode, can I ask that you share it with a friend and like, subscribe and review it too, so that together we can inspire even more people to follow their dreams to build a life they love.