EUVC #231 Saeed Al Gergawi, Dubai Chamber of Digital Economy

0:00Hi, everybody, and welcome to the European DC Podcast. I am Andreas, and with me co-hosting today's episode is Omar from the Mina Tech Fund. Today we have with us Saeed, Vice President of the Dubai Chamber of Digital Economy, where he works towards the transformation of the city of Dubai into an international technology hub. Saeed was previously the Director of Dubai Future Academy, an initiative under Dubai Future Foundation. He also has led projects for the foundation, such as the Global Coders Initiative, the 1 Million ARAB Coders Project, as well as the Foundation's Upskilling Program. Additionally, he has considerable experience at the Muhammad bin Rashid Space Center as mission strategist for the Emirates' Mars mission and program director for the UAE's 100-year exploration strategy, the Mars 2117 program.

0:54So, listeners, as you can hear, we're in for a special episode. We're here to talk about the North Star Conference and how that is placing with the region in the Middle East. So I'm super excited for this. If you're listening in and love our show, do drop us a review, follow the pod and subscribe at EU.BC.

1:17Tear down this wall. It's more than just an alliance. This is a union of values. values. United and determined we can serve as a model for other regions of the world. The nature of a problem requires a European response. Europe is a story of new beginnings. Let's start acting. This show is not investment advice and the hosts of this episode may be invested in the funds and companies featured. And for more information about the Business in Dubai program connecting VCs and founders to investors, plus more, check out the show notes for this episode on eu.vc. Saeed, it's amazing to have you with us.

2:02Let's start by setting the scene and tell our audience a bit about your background and kind of what brought you to the chamber and, you know, the journey you've been on in the last few years. Thank you, Hamar and Andres, for having me today. It's a pleasure to be here. So as you guys mentioned, yes, I did start my career in the space program, worked in particularly on the Emirates Mars mission, which successfully reached Martian orbit and, you know, just before Valentine's of 2021, as well as the Mars 2117 strategy, which is the UAE's space exploration strategy for the next hundred years. And a lot of the efforts that UAE is doing space, and space is led by that.

2:50So that was a great honor to be involved in that project. As a result of that, I moved to the Dubai Future Foundation, which is an organization that looks at Dubai's future as a task future in the middle of its name, with really a focus on sort of long-term horizons, you know, 20 years plus and the like. So working on different policies, strategies, programs, initiatives, and things like that. I headed the capacity building vertical within the Dubai Future Foundation and worked on initiatives like the One Million Arab Coders Initiative and the Global Coders Initiative, which is, as the name states, building capacity for, in the first instance, the million Arabs on how to really become programmers.

3:41for the ecosystem. And really that got me a good insight on sort of ecosystem building and what needs to happen for ecosystems to really be able to make the most out of talent and see that growth happening in terms of filling the gaps and having people do well and thrive. So thankfully we were able to hit a million, 1.2 million people for the 1 million Arab coders initiative. And then as a result of that, and then into the Dubai Chamber of Digital Economy. Just to give you a bit of a background of sort of Dubai Chambers of Digital Economy, I have to step back a little bit. So as you guys know, every city has its own Chamber of Commerce.

4:27In Dubai, we have it a little bit different. So our post-COVID response to this was to say, okay, the landscape has changed. and as such there the chamber of commerce in dubai was split into three semi-independent chambers one is focused on sort of outward expansion for companies in dubai we still have the regular chamber of commerce and then comes in the dubai chamber of digital economy and what we are we are basically the only organization that looks at the digital economy in dubai and and What that means is we help companies both locally and those coming from abroad, as well as investors, founders, NNCs, unicorns, everyone, as long as they're, you know, within the tech space.

5:15was things as simple as, hey, I'm interested in exploring the market, to set up, to market access, to advocacy, all the way to really helping these companies use Dubai's infrastructure and use Dubai as a launchpad for growth and serving global markets. So within our network, we do have 24 international offices around the world, which act as nodes for companies in Dubai that want to expand and explore these markets. So that's just a gist of myself and what we do. One thing that kind of strikes at everything that you've said to me, a lot of the roles you've had always had the word future in them.

6:01And I think that's kind of a testament of where Dubai is and wants to be. But before we get deep into that, tell us a couple of things interesting about you that nobody will know, but we should know ahead of Northstar. Don't hold back. An interesting story going back to one of the projects I worked on, which is the Mars 2117. The whole experience started as a VR simulation of how Mars would look like in 100 years. So we created a VR simulation and a rover of how that would look like in 100 years. And I was actually, so people can actually YouTube this if you just write Mars 2117 and go through the video.

6:48You can see a mini me in VR. On Mars. On Mars. So do that as you will. The other thing is I am a recent dad. So for those that have gone through this process, it's like adding a new pair of goggles on life. So that's been quite all right. It also adds depth to all conversations, right? Because now you're seeing Omar and me smiling with our, I think we have equally big teeth and we're both like, ah, fuck, it's so nice. after your parent. Here's the thing. In terms of conversations, I don't know about the depth. You start talking about diapers and all of these kind of things. So that's certainly a different type of depth.

7:37Let's call it emotional depth, right? Because diapers, there's a lot of emotions around diapers. Yeah, I have a 10-year-old turning 11 this week. So, you know, like I said to Andreas before, I hang on to every little thing I get. So any moment he gives me, I'll bank it. I'll bank it before it's too late. So will Saeed, because you only just had your child. I have a three and a five-year-old, so I'm in the thick of it. So I'm just trying to get everything and get on with it. You're trying to systemize things, systemize the profit. I feel like with Saeed, there seems to be Mars, VR on the planet, launch on Valentine's Day.

8:18He's got his hands full on every single spectrum. they say look it's a lot of people ask us about dubai and where dubai has been and where dubai is going and it's been rapid the growth has been rapid it's been phenomenal from your experience over the last few years that you've been involved in the ecosystem but in different manners of it what has contributed to that success and um where you know what what are the things that you've seen over let's say over the last five years that have really kind of taken us to where we are now No, absolutely. I think the main thing is really on two folds. One is a mindset play, really.

9:00I think if you look at the region, you have many different countries that are much more resource-rich than the EU, or in particular Dubai. rich by either hydrocarbons or by geography or even by historical importance, whether it's an example, it could be Libya that has as much or even more Roman artifacts than Rome itself. So I think for us, as a result of that, it sort of humbled us, but gave us this mindset to be able to really look at life differently, which might even arise from really living in the desert. I usually give an example of anywhere around the world for you to navigate things. You have a landmark, there's a tree, there's a mountain, something like that.

9:54And with the desert sort of winds, a few days after that, it's not there anymore. So you have to really know where you're going and sort of be comfortable with ambiguity a little bit. And just, you know, you have a vision, you have a place you need to be, and you just work towards that. It's quite entrepreneurial in a primal sense. The other thing I would say is, which a lot of people don't know, it's Dubai has gone through a lot of ups and downs historically. So I'll give you an example. Or actually, let me ask you guys a question. When do you think Dubai had the first sort of business-friendly policy or initiative?

10:41At what year? The first business-friendly? Yeah, like an ecosystem policy, so to speak. Oh, my God. This is putting us on the spot. I am going to have a quick guess and say 2005. Andreas? Yeah, I think I would have said probably a bit later. Like I would have said 2010. But I think to our audience, Omar's guess is much more interesting because at that time, I was... It's going to be the wrong guess. Go on. No, so yeah, it's actually 1833. It was the first sort of, the ruler at the time decided to have Dubai be a sort of tax-free city for regional traders. What this ended up doing was, and this was, you know, as a result of not only a lack of resources or, you know, economic downturn at the time, But as a result of that, it created sort of almost a century of some form of prosperity.

11:56It not only attracted a lot of business from the region, but Dubai was one of the main hubs for pearl diving and pearl trading, which was great until 1930 when the Japanese created artificial pearl. And that created a really dip in a crash that was exacerbated by, obviously, the Great Depression or the impact of it. And then that lasted until even post-World War II, as we were sort of a British protector. So it was a compounded effect. But what ended up happening was every time after that, Dubai would actually do better. Similarly happened as well in 1971. We were our own city, our own country, so to speak.

12:50And so we became a country with other cities. That was, again, quite new for this part of the world. even in terms of sort of a federal system of government that had a lot of sort of challenges. Similarly as well in the 80s, but then I think Dubai just kept on, as a city, kept on bouncing back 2x on average as a result of that. So we've gone through these sort of ups and downs. It helped us really learn. But I think one thing that really embedded into Dubai and Dubai's spirit is really the concept of what's good for business is good for Dubai. And if that is the constant, regardless of different aspects, different trends, usually the business community adapts quite well, and the role of Dubai is to create that right ecosystem for that to happen.

13:44So I think that's it. Go ahead. No, I was just going to ask you about what, at least in the VC ecosystem, would feel like the latest inflection point in Dubai economy and society, which is of course, the fact that over the last five years, we've gone from Dubai not being a place being spoken of necessarily as a hub in venture to definitely now being the place where every VC is going to try and raise capital. We're hearing that you're coming in to everyone everywhere else and hunting. So I'd be very curious to hear if that fits as an inflection point or if it's just something in our small sector and how it ties into everything macroeconomically these days.

14:30No, definitely. And thank you. Thank you for getting me back on track. I think, you know, one thing we've seen. So previously to, I'd say, five years, we have been, you know, gradually becoming this regional hub for VCs. Right. Whether it's, you know, Dubai becoming gradually becoming this platform for the region and to be able to really accelerate. But I think over the past five years, there have been a few things that that went quite well. One is as a result of COVID, we sort of were able to adjust to that very well. We had, you know, three weeks of full lockdown and that was that was it in Dubai.

15:13So that's what ended up creating is really a space for not only VCs, but founders to be able to go somewhere during that aspect. Another thing as well is Dubai, even when we talk about the rest of the region, Dubai has been a test bet for different things, whether it's COVID measures, whether it's different technologies and things like that. And this spirit of experimentation requires you to really be in touch with the ecosystem, in particular with VCs and founders, and really understand where are their pain points. So a lot of sort of the regulations and legislative aspects that really helped VCs be able to set a foot, set a ground and really called by home or even home away from home was set in place during this period of five years.

16:08I love how you said you went into lockdown for three weeks, the rest of us went into lockdown for a fair back a lifetime. And I think that's a testament of getting things done quickly. but in your journey engaging with VCs and startups because we still get asked you know is it is Dubai really a place where I can go and raise capital from is Dubai really a place I can deploy from and you touched on it being a testbed which is amazing for new technologies and I think you know great to hear some examples of how that testbed is but from a VC perspective how have you seen the funding landscape evolve over the last few years here in Dubai?

16:48That's a great question. I think, you know, from our perspective, what we've seen is a few things, right? We've seen Dubai become a platform for talent, right? For talent that has potential elsewhere, they tend to come to Dubai. And in fact, I know we see that their model is based on Dubai becoming this platform that is able to filter in sort of the right type of founders that can go global or serve sort of global markets. I think that's one of the things that really sort of happened, which attracted a lot of sort of talent into the region. I think as a result as well is, so because of a few factors, one is Dubai has approximately 200 different nationalities.

17:39this allows a lot of founders to be able to experiment even if it's a little bit with with that community in Dubai because you know I lived in the states for a few years and when you live in the states you gradually become Americanized in Dubai you actually stay as as you are if you like a lot of the different sort of consumer behavior a lot of different sort of mindset sometimes are still as they are in those countries, right? Or as fresh as they can be. So founders can really, for example, be able to experiment with a particular solution or product for the Filipino market, be able to test it a little bit.

18:19If they have positive sort of impact or return, then they can actually deploy it to some extent in a studied and experimented manner in the Philippines, for example. The other thing is we, as a city, love experimenting. So the government loves experimenting. I think this is a paradox. I was about to say that's something we've never heard about a government on this podcast before. Yeah, you know, it's someone who's, I'll give you an example, right, from two aspects. One is one that I've seen sort of firsthand, which is, for example, the Emirates Mars mission. Usually it takes 12 years to be able to develop a mission for Mars.

19:03The mission took a six years to develop because we were able to experiment with different, actually as simple as sort of different types of partnerships, all the way to experimenting with sort of different types of instruments, of even ways of doing things as well. So it allowed us to really cut the time and be able to do it at a much faster and even cost-effective way. The other thing is one of the things that really was able to propel Dubai into sort of tech is the concept of cluster economies. So those of you who've been in Dubai might know the Dubai Internet City or the different free zones.

19:41So this is what we call the free zones, right? Yes. So it really falls back to what is called the cluster economy model, where you have different ecosystems and communities that allow you to not only meet like-minded individuals, that are going through the same sort of trials that you're going through, really pick the different talent that is in that space. And they happen to be from everywhere around the world as a result. I'll give you an example. Both Amazon and Meta experimented some of their solutions for global markets in Dubai. Meta tried it with WhatsApp, really sort of sending, how do you send an address and pinpointing address locations for the Pakistani and Indian markets?

20:30Because Dubai has a similar challenge of, you know, with locations. With Amazon, for example, it was with the drone delivery. We do have quite, particularly for commercial aspects, we do have a favorable sort of drone policies that allows you to test that. Currently, Aramex, the Middle East's largest courier service, is testing that with the Colombian company. And we're having as well sort of the regulator for road and transportation testing autonomous vehicles in one of those cluster economies, or in particular, the Dubai Silicon Oasis area. So I think that allows, in my opinion, VCs to be able to see what are the forefront of applied solutions on the ground, in particular when we talk about whether it's products or even hard tech.

21:26I think it's interesting that you say you can actually build and test for markets from Dubai, but with the same kind of consumer habits that you would deploy in those markets. I never really thought of it that way. You're right. You're now thinking about it. You can build here for the Asian market and still test it as if you were testing in Asia, even for the European market, et cetera. That's a really interesting proposition. We often think as VCs, as investors, let's be in London or deploy out of London or the US because that's where tech is born out of and that's where it can go global. What would you say to somebody when they say, actually, Dubai is still very regional?

22:11And I know you touched on building global, but are you seeing that every day? You're seeing founders. As a VC, would I see the deal flow of being in Dubai? So I'll give you some numbers from our latest VC report. So from a regional plane, the UAE has 65 or 65 plus percent of all of the sort of funded scale-ups in 2023. 90 % of them are based in Dubai. So even from a funding perspective, we're starting to get those funds into companies that are based in Dubai. But what we're starting to see as well is, and this is something that we do at Dubai Chamber of Digital Economy, where we visit the ecosystem a few times a week, whether it's startup, enterprise, government, and VCs, and et cetera.

23:03And we're starting to see larger number of companies, whether it's startups all the way to MNCs and unicorns, saying, we have plans to move our tech teams to Dubai. The first example of that is with a startup that we met in May. And they said, hey, you know what? They actually took us to where their engineers are. And they're saying, you know, we just moved our engineers from Bangalore, which was quite a question mark for us. And it's like, okay, why? Because usually we hear Dubai is very expensive. And then they said, actually, we did the math with the competition for engineers, for example, in different parts of the world.

23:48It's actually much cheaper for us to have them here in Dubai because they keep getting better offers that they have to match. And it's causing them quite a headache that they can't focus on the product development while having them in Dubai. not only does the quality of life standard allow for these engineers to have sort of better quality of life, but they can really focus on building something that they can go global with. And we're starting to see that happening more so as well as companies in particular are, particularly those that want to go global, will have issues or have these challenges in terms of attracting talent.

24:25and Dubai is one of those few pockets in the world that you can attract people from all over the world and they can be in one room without sort of talking to each other. But they can be together in one company, be able to focus on the product development, test it, get it out in the market. and Dubai offers that in a very seamless way. You're right because we've touched on this in a couple of the episodes before, kind of Dubai's geographical position and how that plays such a critical part in this. In terms of the BCs, now we're seeing that, I think, this year for Expand Northstar, we have probably about 700 global funds joining the summit.

25:14and the mix is I would say you know 40 % European 20 % American and the other 40 % kind of Asian African but but it all come in you know Dubai it's kind of has put itself on the map and I think the next wave is you know can I can I be there and kind of almost kind of what can I expect from being in Dubai and seeing, which I think will be a fascinating, interesting time now. Yeah. No, especially because one of the things that a lot of companies or VCs when they come to Dubai, and I'm sure, Amal, you might have noticed this, because of whether it's the free zones, whether it's the different jurisdictions, there are a lot of, it's a good problem to have, but there are a lot of options for both founders and VCs, right?

26:06And so that's one of the reasons that we're here as Dubai Chamber of digital economy. We're an unbiased organization, a nonprofit that works for the private sector. We're starting to become this gateway for many different organizations that they want to explore Dubai or they know that they want to be in Dubai. How can they do that in the way that, one, is cost effective, and two, that causes less headache? That's something that we're seeing more so. And, you know, we're seeing even the ecosystem in particular from a government perspective as well, really act as, okay, we know we're hearing you guys.

26:46And then we're working on different initiatives. You know, there are some, for example, some free zones that are going to, that are saying, you know what, don't pay us for the first year in terms of setup costs. We'll give you the locations and things like that, that are usually in prime, prime locations. in Dubai. What can we expect as investors coming to Dubai in terms of support from the chamber? So, you know, every VC will say to you, I'm trying to raise capital or the cost of setting up. And we've seen that in the kind of, actually, the UK over the last few years. A lot of VCs have moved to the Lisbon or the Netherlands for setup.

27:23What can we expect from you and the team here in Dubai to support him? What's on offer? And before we go there, could I take us one step back or step out to just ask you if you can help us understand the Dubai LP strategy, if I may put it like that. And here, I'm not asking you what Sharif is doing with Dubai Future District Fund, because he would be talking about the investment strategy, right? But here, I'm talking about the motivations behind having such aggressive LP investments coming from the region, because Because it is absolutely... So we've now spoken a lot about the VC strategy of Dubai, right?

28:03Meaning focus on the startups, focus on the tech community and all that. But you're also very active across the world with LP investment. And I'm curious if there's a bigger strategy behind that, or it's more everyone's moving to tech. And for that reason, and we have a lot of capital here. And for that reason, capital seeks where there's best returns. Or is there strategic goal behind it? So I think it goes back to some of the challenges that I think you see in particular in the UAE we're facing. The main national challenges, I would say, are food, energy, and water security. Even in terms of sector focuses, these are actually the reason why we're going to Mars, the reason why we're doing what we're doing.

28:51So I think one of the aspects as to why we're investing, not only abroad, but investing in tech, is to know that, and we've seen this actually as the city developed, right? We saw how tech not only is able to uplift people's lives, but is able to transform countries and nations and really uplift a country. And we're seeing how through tech, through science, and even the investments in R &D, not only are we able to offset the sort of, let's say, the long-term impact or when we sort of ship out the last barrel of oil and gas, but we're able to peer into the future, going back to what Amar was mentioning earlier, really be able to have a door open into the future in terms of tech and what it can do and how we can make the most out of it from a business perspective as well.

29:56So yes, we are offsetting from a strategic perspective, but at least the Dubai mentality is very business-focused. It's very focused on how can this not only be a potential template for different companies that Dubai can support, but even finding ways where obviously everyone ends up benefiting from whether it's from a return perspective. And now let's go to Amar's question then, which is more detailed. I was thinking, look, a lot of the VCs come in here, and it's kind of linked to what Andres would say. Look, Dubai could be a place I can find deal flow and invest from. I get all that geography.

30:40But actually, I want to raise capital, but also I want to set up efficiently. And I want to understand a bit more about the role the chamber can play within that, whether it be the family offices, the limited part of the LPs, or the funds of funds, or actually just the process of setting up and making my entry as easy as possible? Well, as you've touched upon one of the things, so we do have within the Dubai Chamber is the Dubai Family Business Center, right? So what this is, is a center that really represents all family businesses in Dubai, whether it's from educating sort of the next in-line sort of leadership all the way to really having them going back to what you probably want to hear is, how do you find new ways of doing investment?