How to Build Inner Strength, Stay Grounded and Keep Going Through Life’s Challenges with Sifan Hassan #584

33:05And it was really nice to see that sort of camaraderie. Yeah. I will tell you the secret, I never tell anyone yet. I had some breathing problem. I just figured out because yesterday the highest polar allergy. So I couldn't catch up. My brain was like, you can't. Oh, you were feeding the pollen yesterday? Wow. So I didn't know that. I just hear it was high pollen, but I couldn't breathe. So the The secret I want to tell you, I was already number three. I know I don't catch, but in my brain, oh, you're not going to catch. I said, Atelis, you're going to enjoy? What is going to happen to the man?

33:38Like immediately I finish, I'm like, oh, I have to watch the man. So what's the ending of the men's race? Exactly. Well, I'm racing like a couple, five or six kilometers left. I know I couldn't catch them, the number one, the leaders. So I was telling my brain, I was like, okay, Atelis, you're going to enjoy? Who's going to win at the man? You know, the man, they have this year the strongest field ever. I was even curious about how Abdi Nagu is going to race. I know his training, he's really in good shape. Also, I was curious about Elliot. I was curious about Kip Lemo. So I was like, I was even telling a day before, I wish I don't race, I just sit down and watch my race.

34:15Yeah, it's fascinating hearing that. I mean, I've got so many questions about that race. But one of the things you said before about your first marathon in 2023, when you didn't, because it was Ramadan beforehand, you hadn't trained to know how much fluid should I take, which distance should I take it? Things that most marathon runners are practicing and they're getting dialed in completely. And then you weren't taking a drink, right? And then yesterday in the men's race, of course, at that, I think that 35 kilometer drink station, that's when the whole race changed. when the winner didn't take a drink, everyone else takes a drink, and he stretches this big gap.

34:58Ah, yeah. That's what happened. The lady did to me that too. Really? At the 20th, they took a drink, they didn't take, they stretched me out. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? It's very interesting. Yeah, you need the fuel, actually. That's how we believe us scientifically. They say you have to have a drink at the time. Yeah, but again, it's these, again, I'm not saying we don't need the fuel, but it's interesting that the guy who won the men's race yesterday didn't take the fuel but instead he took the opportunity to create a psychological advantage yeah and then i think well maybe in 2023 one of the reasons you ran is because maybe you didn't drink yeah maybe that's a good thing that's true but also i think the biggest wherever your brain believes if you are you will do it that's just i think the guys just take okay i take this opportunity i'm going to bestrodom that's what i did i think can you explain to me because i'm not an elite athlete like you the importance of that psychology right so at a drink station let's say you're all running together in a group right and let's say someone does make a break and they get ahead what is that like for an athlete like if suddenly someone you were running with suddenly you find is quite far ahead of you in just a few moments what does it do to you psychologically because the commentators kept mentioning you because you won London you you're the Olympic gold medalist from last year's marathon and when they started to break away your name kept coming up the commentators kept saying they're worried about Safan's kick so they're going to keep checking to make sure they've got clear of Safan they don't want to risk being with her at the end now again that's the commentators I don't know if that's true from the athletes but obviously because of your amazing kick in 2023 and at the Olympics last year where There was all kinds of stuff going on at the end, right?

37:06How much does that psychology play into when you're actually racing? It really plays bigger. So it's a big role? Big one. So because of what I did in London, I was in Paris, and I was feeling so good at 20k. 20k? Yeah, 20k. So halfway through. Yeah, halfway. I was feeling good. And I was like, I saw they are struggling going downhill. I said, can I break them here? And I tried to pass them. And they speak the language, Ethiopian, and I hear the language, I understand. They're like, what's she doing? The other guy said, I think she's going to go. And I was like, no, I'm not going to go. I'll come back.

37:48Oh, so you heard them talking about you? Yeah, they were talking about me. I was like, oh, okay, these people are just focused on me. So I saw all of them look at me like they are only racing with me. So I told myself, no, go back. I just go back. Let me just be safe. Let me play the safe part. That's interesting. So do you think that's because you came from nowhere in 2020? Not from nowhere, to be clear. Obviously, you're an elite athlete. But in terms of the marathon, because you hadn't done that before and you win your first race, like everyone's thinking, oh my, we have to watch it. I have seen a lot of amazing athletes who did amazing on the track and then the marathon.

38:28It's total because the energy system is total. different so I come from nowhere it's not only the way I win in London was unusual also so you can't say a person stretch stop walk and miss almost drink and then go win so that's give you oh this even somebody come to me they was like oh they want to beat you they're like in Tokyo I rise before Paris they say oh they want to beat you but the coach say we are mostly we are not focused in Tokyo we are going to beat her in Paris so even the London one marathon because the way I win is totally different it makes like I was the greatest marathon runner for many athletes in the head so when you heard them talking about you so this is I didn't know any of this this is interesting so you're in the 2024 Olympic marathon and again just for the non-runners you did something remarkable in that Olympics you competed in the 5k the 10k and then the marathon right and I I remember this so well.

39:30I had just gone on a family holiday with my wife and children to Kenya for four weeks. And we had just come back and we were watching the Olympics on television. And me, my son and my daughter watch your marathon race. And we were talking about, we just round the TV thinking, she must be knackered today. She must be exhausted because she's just done the 5K and the 10K. Who's going to do a marathon after already being tired? and what was the time span between the 5k the 10k and the marathon so the time span was like the 5k was two days and then at the 10k then between then 5k is two times I raised two times the heat oh the heat yeah so two 5ks yeah two 5k and then I raised the 10 ,000 and then I have 36 36 hours before the marathon a day and a half yeah but for me it wasn't really 36 hours because it's less because I have doping control there.

40:28The mixed zone interview, it takes like two hours. All the interviews afterwards. And then I have doping control. I have like 2 a.m. to my hotel. Oh, so you get to your hotel at 2 a.m. So you're already late. You're not going to get enough sleep. No way. And I was like lying down. And you have also, when you race as a little athlete, we have really high adrenaline. Adrenaline, yeah. You've just been racing, right? Yeah, exactly. you can't sleep so the things i had just a night before the marathon and i go early on 9 p.m to go sleep but my body doesn't want to sleep because i always come come later for medallion ceremony like i couldn't sleep until 1 a.m something and by 4 a.m i have to wake up i mean it just makes it even more remarkable that you got olympic gold after all of this but again going back to one of the themes earlier on I think Safan this is one of the things people love about you there's this like impossible doesn't seem to exist for you it's like yeah okay I'm gonna do it doesn't matter you know I think many of us in life we um we allow excuses to get in our way we go oh you know what that's happened of course I can't do this and for me one of the most inspiring things about you is that it seems that you don't really allow excuses in.

41:51Like, as you said, there's more to life than winning gold. Okay. A great life lesson for all of us. And it seems to be this can-do attitude. It's like, yeah, okay, well, you know what? The race finished. I had interviews for two hours. I had to do my doping control test. I'm knackered. But hey-ho, why don't I do the marathon and see what happens? Is that literally how you approach it? Yeah, to me, I think many people, especially, number one, how we destroy ourselves to have an excuse. Like for London Marathon, for yesterday, if I make excuse, they're like, oh, she's great because she have this problem.

42:27But I'm also destroying myself. The good thing is actually because we're scared, you know, why we don't do many things, why we don't try? Because we're scared to fulfill it. If we feel, and then people are going to judge us. For example, if everybody's like, oh, she's great. I want to be always call me greater. Because when they say it's greater, I'm already in comfort zone because everybody think I'm great. But if I try to out of that great comfort zone, I will be maybe challenge feeler. People are going to talk about me. I'm not good. So we're scared of actually judging. People judge us. I think the great thing is just try it.

43:04And don't care what they say, you try, you know. Don't think to be like greatest, just do your best. There is nobody great in everything. There is also nobody bad in anything. Everybody has something. Just try, you know. So what I see is people just scared of trying, you know, because somebody's going to judge them. This is, I mean, such an important bit of wisdom you just shared there for people. It's really interesting that you race marathons but that's really a metaphor for life isn't it life is a marathon yeah exactly in life we have to endure things are going to happen it's going to feel tough at times and somehow we have to find a way to get through and actually i was watching a video of yours this morning sephane and it was it was really inspiring because you were saying and to be clear for everyone you are you know one of the world's best athletes you've got six olympic medals yes i believe yeah you're the current Olympic marathon gold medalist, yet you still say that you have both parts of your mind.

44:08Sometimes you're really scared before you do something. You have fear, you have nerves, you're scared that you're not good enough, that you are not enough, yet you do it anyway. And I thought, wow, if someone with six Olympic medals is saying that, that should be inspiring for all of us for those of us who let fear get in the way of us living our best lives i think i'm gonna look for example after i won a paris olympic everybody think i'm great so i talk after olympic four or five months off and i'm already getting also weight and especially six weeks ago i was ready to run the marathon so in my heart because i did already out of comfort zone i was scared but i I know if another athlete, if they are not sure they're going to win, they don't come.

44:58But to me, I already used to. Because 21, I won gold, gold, and won silver. 22, I had bad years. I didn't win any race. So it was like, she's done. Her life is over. Believe me, we're all scared. I'm scared. I'm terrified sometimes. But I just do it. I just win over my fear. So I'm going to tell everybody, wherever you look, try it. Who cares? Okay, done, done. And as long as it's not dangerous, as long as it doesn't kill you, just try it. So this is interesting. Okay. So having won gold at the London Marathon in 2023, having won gold at the Olympic Marathon in Paris in 2024, you came third in the London Marathon yesterday.

45:39Okay. Some people might look at that as a failure. Yeah. Right? Yeah. If someone's listening right now and they think, yeah, well, you won two golds and then you came third. Well, that's not good. That's not what you would be expecting of yourself. Or whatever story they have about you, what would you say to them? I say, actually, you're greater because of failure. The more you try, the more you fail, the more also you succeed because you try. Imagine if you try only one, two times, you may win one, two times. But if I try 10 times, I fail five times, I win five times. Who's the winner? I'm a winner.

46:18I win more than you. So it's like this. You could have a lot of failure, but you also have the chance to win. Look, I tried six distance at the two Olympics. I have three brooms. I have three gold. So, and I also tried so many marathon and I'm already have. But yeah, it's not even, for me, when I hear that, it's not even just how many golds you've got, right? You could have played it safe and just stuck to your distances. then you never would have learned about anything the marathon and that it's a different event different energy systems how do you maintain that concentration for 42 kilometers not just 5k or 10k yeah and then going beyond the gold medals it's also about life and what do we want our experience of life to be because how many new life experiences have you have you experienced through challenging yourself.

47:15So whether you got gold or not. Forget about it, yeah. Of course it's important. Great. I'm not diminishing it. It's great that you've got the gold medals. But even if you hadn't, you would have learned so much about yourself, which you wouldn't have learned had you played it safe. Exactly. That's also, for me, people think it is all about running, running. No, it's not about running. It is also where after I go out of my running career, I can jump into any business or anything. things, I will still figure out. I will still wear out to solve the problem. I will still have the solution for the problem.

47:51But that's where the confidence comes from, doesn't it? Right? The confidence that you now have, even beyond your running career to solve problems, and problems are going to come up in life. The confidence comes from taking risks, from going outside your comfort zone. I mean, some people, these things sound like cliches, but they're cliches because they're true right this is literally how you learn is exactly it is normal to have up and down it's like if we have perfect life we don't even do i think we don't even do life i think going back to the uh 2024 olympic marathon you were telling me how halfway through you were feeling good despite having done the 5k and the 10k and not much sleep leading up to it you're feeling good halfway through and you were thinking about making a run making a break right and you heard some of your competitors talking in Ethiopian, you could hear the language that they were worried or they were thinking about what you're going to do, right?

48:52So you decided, okay, I'm not going to go. Why did you hearing them focusing on you, why did that lead you to change your decision? Instead of going, why did you hang back then?

49:18Because when I look at them, they worry about me. And I look at the Kenyan, they also look at me. I know they're hunting me. They wasn't focused on the race, they're hunting me. I was like, why you have to be just stay there and do the best. And I also tell myself before the race, I will do the best of my race. Just try to compete with myself. so that i go back i say just you know just stay behind race just don't make any mistake come back that's really safe so it almost gave you an increased confidence exactly oh they're talking about me i'm the hunted one now so fine i've got a bit more um autonomy here i can make decisions here i don't need to push now let me save it yes in case i need it at the end and you did need it at the end of course it was quite a um how can i put it quite a robust finish right and do you remember that finish do you remember what happened when it seemed to say you guys almost touched at one point yeah exactly i was like um so i i think like around 1k i want to go to run next to her 1k left so you nearly finished the race and i was like try to go next to her i i didn't know that she's blocking me actually so i was like i was like i i see her again in front of me i try here i see i thought oh she's so fast i can't match her cadence you can't match her i thought i thought yeah I can't match her cousin I thought I didn't know that she's trying to like block me so I just stayed behind her and at the time to the time passed though we smashed it I feel like I can't tell I feel like somebody gave me like what happened call like some crazy alarm or something I was like boom my head was like boom because you just exploded just become like I'm shocked actually were you shocked by how quick you were able to run at the end no I was shocked when like Like she's smashing.

51:07When we smash each other, I would like really wake up and I was like, try to sprint as hard. Oh, so you think that knock actually helped you? I think knock helped me a lot. Wow. It's really helped me. And a question I think a lot of us who are non-elite athletes think about is, you know, you guys, of course, at the top level are competing with each other, right? You know, because only one person can get gold, right? does that affect your relationship with these fellow athletes off the track is it hard to be friends with people off the track when part of your job is to try and beat them on the track to me it's most of the time actually i don't really i have uh on the track like we talk and you know because most of the time i think as an athlete it's better you focus on yourself because You can only do it.

52:00You can only control about yourself. But it's good also having competitive, you know, that makes actually sports beautiful, you know. When you make a record and then someone beats that record, how do you feel? I don't really care. It actually motivates me. Like when Faith breaks my mile record and everybody's sorry, I was like, no, it's good because I know I can go harder. What was your mile record? It was 4-12. 4-12. About four minutes and 12 seconds. Yes, she broke, I think, like four, seven. And now I believe, I try, actually, when I try before, like before I jump to the marathon, I was like, oh, I can break that record.

52:38Now, actually, fate make it easy. It's like, I know that's possible. Like the record I break was 20-something years old record. So you broke a 20-year-old record. And after you broke it. In two years or three, she broke it. But we see this, don't we? We saw this with Roger Bannister. Yeah. He breaks it after, well, he becomes the first human being to run under four minutes. And I think eight people break it in the next two years. A minute later, yeah, exactly. Because the mentality has changed. And I think she has just announced that she wants to try and break the four-minute mile barrier later this year, I think.

53:13Did you hear that? Yeah, I hear that. It is very good. Like, it's actually, I'm very starting proud of many athletes because they're always stuck in one place. Now they try to, they're taking challenge. You know, that's what I want. like especially for to me actually when they broke this when they broke that I really wanted a break now so I know it is possible it's like I'm sure when athletes now they want to do trade event and go to track and go back to marathon it is easy because I have done but if you never see somebody done it is very hard because you are taking risk but they know that I have done it is easy for them but I'm so happy like athletes now starting taking challenge you know they don't have to Why we have to wait to somebody try?

53:54We don't try ourselves. I know it's very important to you to inspire women, isn't it? In fact, I read a quote from you, which was females will always have challenges, but the challenge is like practicing. It helps you get stronger to become a warrior. You know why is this important? I want to actually inspire everybody. everybody. To me, it is because females are generation. If the female is strong, if a strong mother, if you, your wife or your mother, somebody stronger, the child she produced, the child she feed is going to be stronger. That is a matter of, a matter of like when female is strong, the man is also strong.

54:41It's not I was focused on the female is strong as man. No, we're different. I'm different. Even every man is different. So I don't have to be strong as man. I'm strong in a different way. He's strong in a different way. He's born different. They are born differently. But I'm equal as a human being. I believe that. I believe in equality, but I don't believe really that I'm strong as this. No, I'm not strong. But to me, I want to motivate a human because I want to motivate all human beings. Because females are the real generation. If the mother is weak, the child will be weak. Whether a boy or a girl.

55:15That one. Like if the mother is exercised, the child will exercise. If the mother is good in her head, the child will be good inside. Yeah, I love that message. I think my wife would love it even more, that message. Yeah, exactly. I think she would very much be agreeing and going, yes, you're absolutely right. Yeah, it's interesting. Again, I can't speak for Ethiopia or for the Netherlands, but one thing that we see in the UK and I think in many other western countries certainly the US I know is the same I don't know in the Netherlands that once girls get to their teenage years their physical activity starts to decline okay so we know that we have a generation of young girls teenagers women who are not moving their bodies as much as would be good from a health perspective okay now there's many reasons for that.

56:10One thing that I know some women feel and men for that reason, but let's just keep this on women for a minute, is that they often feel self-conscious about their bodies. They don't like the way that they look and therefore that sort of shame or embarrassment stops them from, let's say, going for a run or going to the gym. If there is a lady or even a a teenage girl listening to us talk right now who feels a bit embarrassed to go out there and go for a run. She's worried that people are looking at her. She doesn't like the shape of her body or whatever it might be. What would you say to her? So I say to her that, you know, the confidence that she does have is because she's not exercise.

56:57When people notice that they become the physical, body become weaker. When you are weaker, it doesn't matter how beautiful you are. You can't have confidence. Just start exercising. When she becomes strong, her confidence builds. Even just being held strong, it's actually what builds confidence. And look at yourself and you say, I'm strong. If your body is strong, you don't see that you're not beautiful, you're not looking good. You think you are looking good. You are better because something connects you. You're neuro, your brain is connected. Oh, you're strong. That's why female and male are also different.

57:34like mainly because they're born that way they think oh that's that i think that's what i'm going to say they have to exercise i don't know especially like just don't sit behind the computer they have to exercise they have to move to have that confidence back in the 2024 medal ceremony you wore your headscarf to the ceremony and it seemed to cause quite a lot of noise on the internet was she making a statement was she trying to say something and send a message to the world from your perspective what actually happened to me to me it's like look okay i'm no hijabic to be honest like a muslim according to religion you have to cover whole body but i do the hijabi to also send the message because I have learned from childhood in the Muslim people who wear hijab, they don't have confidence.

58:35They think the man is telling them to wear. They think they don't have, they are not smart and they are so weak. So I just want to know the world, no, they have, they are very smart people. They are very independent. They are very strong. I just want to say, see, you could be Muslim and be strong and say whatever you want to be be like in the good manner, be just with a good morality. You could be Muslim, female, and have great education, be supported, be stronger. So that I want to see. Muslim is actually, they choose to be Muslim. I choose to be Muslim. Nobody force me. It sounds like you want it to almost, you know, break down barriers and judgment and go, hey, look, I'm a gold medalist.

59:21I just kicked ass in the Olympic marathon and won an incredible sprint out. And I'm also someone who wears a headscarf to sort of break down that judgment, which, of course, there's a lot of judgment and discrimination in the world. Very empowering message you were trying to put out there. Yes, yes. Did you get much pushback and much negativity? Or do you not even take any attention of that kind of stuff? I didn't really get any attention. Because to me, both of them, I don't take attention. Because if you also search for positive, one day they're going to crush you. If you also search for negative, both of them, it's not necessary.

59:59It's good that people say it's great, but it's good. If you want to be greatest, don't search for anything. Don't search for the bad. Don't search for good also. You will be greater because you just feel, you just do what is right, what is good for you. Either way, it's like they're going in your head, people will decide for your life. it's good to also talk to people you know choose what is good and talk be open-minded also flexible but it just it's there's no necessary to to search for both attention do like i'm going to say especially the children don't search for anything to be great i completely agree if you let the good go to your head the negativity is going to bring you down as well the one who put you up going to put you also down exactly like you said before without sad there's no happy no yeah right it's the balance of life success that is not filler that is no success also yeah so that is what i say and and then yeah exactly this is what i just want to show them in the world like they deserve you seem to have a lot of um mature life wisdom right that often we don't associate with people until they get quite a bit older and i'm interested to know do you think that comes largely from your upbringing, the fact that you've had to move countries and get used to different cultures and different ways of living?

1:01:25Or do you think it's come through your athletic journey and running? Or is it everything? No, I think to me it's like, believe me, you will be intelligent if you travel around. I wasn't born that way. I can't tell you genetically I'm this. No, I don't also tell you from athlete background because I know many athletes. Yesterday somebody asked me, you try everything to be good. Where it comes from? Because I didn't see many Ethiopians do that in running. I said because I travel around. See, just as a young move to this country, move to that. It just opens up your mind. You get actually free school.

1:02:03Like we have to go to school as a child. This is a great school actually. It's just, I think, just great school, great university. You can call it a great university. Yeah. I think travel is amazing. It's amazing. Because it shakes you out of your belief system. Yeah. You think the world is a certain way and you travel. You're like, oh, there's another way to operate in the world. There's another belief system. There's other ways that people live in harmony with completely different beliefs to me. Yeah. And I really do believe that, of course, not everyone can travel, but more travel, I think would really make the world a lot happier and there'd be less discrimination.

1:02:44Yeah, exactly. Because you see, like now when I talk to people, I know when I talk to Ethiopian people, Netherlands and America, I have totally different opinions and different opinions because I see differently because I live in Netherlands, I live in Ethiopia. This time, you know, I went to Kenya for three months. It made me actually, I went to learn in Kenya, I want to learn about Kenya culture in university or something. It looks like I feel actually part of Africa, like my home, they think this way, this is the way they did it. It's that curiosity that sort of seems to permeate everything you do.

1:03:22Right? That curiosity. What's possible? What can I learn here? What's the language you grew up speaking in Ethiopia? I speak, they're called Oromo language. It's one of, I think, maybe half, half the people speak, 15 % of people, they speak the language in Kenya also, because in the border, many people are even, they are Kenya, they speak the Oromo language. Did you also grow up speaking English? No, I just learned. Okay, that's interesting. So you, sorry, the language is called Oromo? Yes. So you grew up speaking that language. Yes. Then you are a refugee to the Netherlands. Yes. And you didn't speak Dutch at the time.

1:04:02So you had to learn Dutch. I have to learn Dutch. I really don't speak that much English. I just know from school because you just have one language, one subject. So when I come to Netherlands, I immediately, like, in three weeks, I would say, in the Netherlands, everybody speaks English. I learn English in Netherlands. You learn English in Netherlands? Yeah, because Netherlands language is very tough. So what I think actually did help me, I would become lazy to learn the Dutch because I was already uncomfortable. I have to suffer with this language when I'm speaking English. So, but then you did learn Dutch.

1:04:37I did learn. And they said, after a couple, I think after three years, I moved to Dutch coach. I start learning. In Nederland, I was also 10 months. I know this is really bad when I speak on the TV. And what I like also about Dutch, they like when you speak that language. So I was like, okay, I have to become better. um just before we came into record I had the pleasure of meeting your coach Tim yeah and I've been reading quite a lot about your coach recently and one of the things I came across was um on your way to the 2023 London Marathon again this marathon that um you'd never done before he basically shared in an interview that I think you said it as well that quite soon before the marathon, you were thinking of even pulling out.

1:05:29But I think your team had said, look, London have just announced it. It won't be good for their marketing. So you didn't want to let down the marketing event. So you go, oh, I'm going to do it. Even in the coach, I think on the way to the start line, you were thinking about pulling out, should I really be doing this? And he mentioned that you guys made a bet that I think he proposed to you that if you win, I'll give up sugar until the end of the year but you came back with a higher bet didn't you? Yeah exactly I thought we were joking because he's very addicted to sugar before and now I was like as a joke okay if I win you're not gonna eat until Paris, that was one year and a couple months I think.

1:06:12He's like okay okay deal and we just make as a joke and suddenly I thought you know I never thought I'm gonna win I ended up winning. Tim was really struggling, he really gave up. He gave it sugar for 14 months. He really, really gives up. Very few of us in life can succeed by ourselves. How important is your relationship with your coach, Tim? It is very good. Tim is actually, he's also very curious. I used to, you know, Tim is actually, when I say, when I come up with something, he never say it's impossible. He's very curious also. He's like, he's also a risk taker. He think, yeah, it's possible.

1:06:51Every team he say, yeah, why not? you know that make really easy for me that's also when I come out three event he's actually the one of I announced like a month before I'm going to do three event he's the one of really supportive that I think you need as an athlete you coach have to be one of the greatest support like as a coach like you are actually coaching an athlete it's a big team like it's one two brain work as one it feels like your coach doesn't really support you whatever your decision makes, you are down. So I say when actually being curious, they have to choose that their coach is the one who supported them.

1:07:33I heard an interview with your coach, Tim, with a friend of mine, Floris, from the Extra My List podcast. And I think Floris asked him about advice for coaches. And he said many things, but one of the things he said I really, really loved. he said never ever joke negatively with your athletes and I don't really like that I thought it is yes it's important for athletes but even in a marriage in a relationship with your children like never joke about something negative and I thought that was a really insightful piece of advice yeah I think it's a well he's he's very smart by the way because it's true because Because athletes and coaches are so close, as even our brain have a lot of, to myself, I have a lot of negative things coming to when I make the session.

1:08:27Then that comes to the athletes also make, yeah, maybe true. Maybe he's or he's better. Maybe I can't do, you know. That, you know, this is very important also to know. Yeah, I think it also resonated with me because I was chatting to my kids recently about this. This is before I heard that interview with Tim. And one of them made a joke, just a stupid joke. But I said, hey, listen, even if your sibling believes 1 % of that, right? Even though you meant it as a joke, that can have implications for that person later on. It's true. Do not joke negatively. It's true. You know, find something else to joke about, but not about someone's weakness or what you perceive as a weakness.

1:09:07And just hearing that made me think, God, he really must be a wonderful coach. No, he's really, he's great. You know, it's really true also because like, especially with the children, the parents are rule model. If you joke about it, they really take serious. They say, they may say they're laughing, but in their head when they come, like, maybe that's true. You know, when the time, the difficulty time, they don't search for solutions. They say, maybe, maybe I'm super. Like if you have a child, like a girl child, if you talk about how strong female is, how the success is, they will want to become like that success.

1:09:43If you always tell about other stories, how amazing, she did amazing things. Because I know as a child, I hear like my mom was stoked when some female did amazing things. She always said, wow, this was amazing things she did. I was like, oh, I want to become, I want to be like that person. So people can't say also. That's what as a child, you just want to, you don't know anything. You just take it. so van you've experienced many different challenges in your life up to this point what would you say is the hardest thing you've ever done the hardest thing says i have that is it was the hard when i moved from from Netherlands to US.

1:10:32Like when I was like, I already know, oh, I'm safe, I have success, I get to survive enough money, but I may lose everything and I have to go back to school, educate and have again a job. So that's the hardest thing. What like, you know, right now I'm in good position. If I could keep this going keep for five, six years, I could own something, I could survive. But I say, oh, I'm going to choose to go to that. And it could be ended up things go different way. And I was like, okay, I just, I choose. Okay, if things doesn't work, I do try three, four years. I go to school and go back to school, have my diploma or degree, and then I go to work.

1:11:16That's the hardest thing. the other hardest thing is when i decide uh tokyo olympic to do three event when i always have any olympic medallia wow and each of those hard things that you did or put yourself forward for for you has paid dividends but for some people they don't always sometimes they try and do something hard and it doesn't pay off yeah it doesn't pay off i had also really hard years in 2022 it didn't pay off this is i was really struggling but it's not not always but keep working never give up yeah many people who listen to this show uh sefan really enjoy something called park run which is a weekly 5k run every saturday morning that people do in community and in groups okay you are an elite athlete one of the world's best female runners um i've got two running questions for you okay um for someone who is not a runner but wants to build up to running 5k what is your advice for them and for someone who already runs a 5k regularly but wants to get a PB, a personal best in 2025, what advice would you have for them?

1:12:46So the first advice, what I give it, not only 5K, every runner. Many runners, they run, they don't do gym. They have to. Gym is one of important for your life. They have to lift. They have to do heavy lift. Even the people who are older, when they become 60, 50, 65, whatever they have to do lift that's very important don't only run because number one you're going to avoid the injury number two your bone descent you're going to be stronger number three what i say for the younger girl you're going to become stronger and confident if you're going to improve your pb you're going to look at yourself if you feel strong and you're going to run also the fastest so then don't forget your core don't forget the gym heavy lift everything i do a lot of lift, they think, why you don't be big?

1:13:33Because you cannot get bigger. Your body adapts to what you more do. If you are at the gym every day, five hours, yes, you're going to be. If you do two times gym, one hour, heavy lift, you're not going to be. You just become stronger and you also become have more growth hormone. That means you are actually more fitter. Number two, also don't avoid speed. When you do speed, you make your right, right and left Yeah, ventricles and your heart. Yeah, exactly. You make one stronger. When you do longer distance, I think you make your right, your left vertigo stronger. So it is good for your heart also to do longer, also to do sprint.

1:14:15And also when you did like, that's the way, if you do like long run, I don't know, some people do 20 minute long run, some people do 45, some people do 90 minute and do that. The other also don't only run, do sometimes biking, go to pool. That's how you're going to run PB. Because our brain loves to play. They don't like to do one thing. They get bored. Maybe they're going to go good at it, but you're not going to improve. But if you do something, number one, they're going to enjoy sport. The other also, they're just going to improve also. So whatever, if you run, but also editing. If you have pull and you pull also, either way, I don't know, do core or gym and then you're going to run PB.

1:14:56Love it. You're someone who smiles a lot, even when you're taking on a really difficult challenge what does the word happiness mean to you number one why i smile i learn i learn after this sadness gonna be something great coming like what i learned like it's not gonna stay there so that the depressed yesterday i was like okay i may say that i didn't win you know but i know the day will come when i win actually gonna have more happiness so that I'm thinking like okay actually you know my most of goal had made it when I lost not when I win when I lost I make a really great goal like crazy goal I don't know why wow I know I'm not gonna be always happy sometimes I'm depressed sometimes angry sometimes sad yeah the full breadth of experience like um long slow runs and short fast runs happiness sadness anger calm you know it's good to experience everything right yeah it's uh it's it's incredible you know talking to you is just so inspiring i can see why so many people around the world truly love you right and feel connected to you and feel that when they watch you run or speak that they feel that they can do better things in their own life right and i'm pretty sure after today's conversation a lot of people will also feel inspired by your curiosity your playfulness your i guess your directness as well you know you don't sort of hide your words you tell it as you see it which i find and i think many people find really really inspiring there's a lot of people around the world who feel as though they're in a dark place okay they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel you're someone who has also been in those dark places before exactly to finish off this conversation for that person who's watching right now who does feel that their life is not going in the way that they want it to go and that they cannot see light at the end of the tunnel what would your final words for them be if you look at me the people who even if the person who watch who knows even or maybe he never said now he's googling look at look at it he said oh wow what she done is great believe me whatever you feel inside you i feel the same even now i think the things is not going the way i want i'm angry i'm sad i'm happy so even the girl you think the woman you think is success feeling the same as you feel maybe the people the success people they don't say they're actually the the one who fare more because when it's success also you want more success more success the thing doesn't go the way they want maybe maybe couple things they try they try they try maybe three four things go the way they want maybe 20 things doesn't go the way they want you only see the one success thing so think it wherever you think about it wherever you have I have it, I experience, even now.

1:18:12I want to win yesterday. I didn't win because I already have great names. They say she's winner, she's hero, she's that. I don't do that, but it didn't happen. You think I didn't get angry? I get angry. I was like angry at myself when I went to sleep, but that's human being. That's all. We are the same. Believe me, nobody is special. this is it's just matter of experience matter of the trying just keep going so believe in that that's what i say sefan you're an incredible human being you're inspiring millions of people around the world thank you for making some time to come on my show thank you so much thank you

1:18:56really hope you enjoyed that conversation do think about one thing that you can take away and apply into your own life. And also have a think about one thing from this conversation that you can teach to somebody else. Remember, when you teach someone, it not only helps them, it also helps you learn and retain the information. Now, before you go, just wanted to let you know about Friday Five. It's my free weekly email containing five simple ideas to improve your health and happiness. In that email, I share exclusive insights that I do not share anywhere else, including health advice, how to manage your time better, interesting articles or videos that I've been consuming and quotes that have caused me to stop and reflect.

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1:21:19Thank you.