Border Wars, India vs China, Grenades & Nuclear Strategy | Col. Shivender Kanwar | FO382 Raj Shamani

40:38True. And again, I was speaking to on the podcast only one of the big officers. Yeah. And I asked the same question. Because they have dealt with a lot of UN peacekeeping. Many Pakistani army officers deal with it. Serve it. And he was saying that every time they meet different people, one thing was common that they have a very army first approach. because their army has ruled their country for 70 years ideological difference is India's soldiers India first and people first approach people first we don't have no authority we don't have no meaning we don't have no meaning so that is also again a great difference and there because that country rule-y army so rule-ruin yeah whatever rule ruin coups they're part and parcel of their personality so that's all it is so these things matter when you go to war so ideologies and your traditions and ethos they're a big role play with which army or soldiers you have trained or served different countries I've done with Americans.

42:02I have done with Kazakhstan. I have done with Sri Lankan, Bangladesh, Indonesians, Nepalese, Nepalese, Not my, not, not Israelis per se, Russians. My unit has trained, I was not there. Then British Royal Marine Commandos. So I have trained with quite a bit of Israelis, no? I have not personally trained with Israelis. Pre or post, you have also course so in that also have you met any Israelis no there was no Israeli but there were Canadian special forces there was there were guys from Poland and all Polish top five for me just based on which soldier we get most lethal forces are British guys SES guys why are lethal they exposure level is quite good okay we can call them they were the initial guys who made the special forces in 1940s left and David Sterling and the rogue warriors who Britishers unka wo hai and they are quite good in ground level tactics very good the things which they do the things which they do and they are good then I would say Americans are also good in terms of the kind of knowledge only because because combat exposure is very high and British and Americans I would rate this to this I would say that you can be in any army but if you are not fighting in a different place then your capability is is limited so they fight in Afghanistan they fight in Syria us ke baad bo log fight kar rye hapka Iraq mein so jab utni aap combat exposure dhekhte ho alag alag jaghaon ka ja kar obviously your confidence is very high and mein hamisha bolta ho ki soldiers are like the more combat hardened they are jitni combat dhekhe ga it will be better.

44:30Soldiering ground level tactics doesn't require that kind of you know, you don't do anything. You look at the fight, you look at the fight, you look at the fight, you look at the fight. Every contact, you have 100 operations launched. And you have 1 firefight looked at the fight. Your life has changed. So you have 100 operations launched. You have to launch operations. You have to go out and go out and contact. hat how to do that, then it doesn't happen, somewhere it doesn't happen. You have 100 operations launched. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. You have one firefight in which you have a militant with a firefight, that is where your training comes into things.

45:11That is where… One on one if you do. Yes, one on one fire open. Whether you get it or run away, or you have to engage them and kill them. You can see someone you can see. sakti hai kyaos chaos chaos or yani woh us wale environment mein ki jis mein fire shuru ho gaya agar apne woh nahi dekha then you are not a soldier yani aapne agar fauj ki vordhi pehni aur apne combat nahi dekha usse bada koji addiction nahi hai usse bada koji nasha nahi nahi hai usse bada koji kuch nahi so you said britishers for americans for i found Russian Spetsnaz were also good and he was also hardcore type I met one guy he was I think so he was left-hand colonel and in Iraq minefield blast he was in an administrative role over there he had let special forces here the plate cut then also he was doing deadlift 1500 kg and an old guy I was 32-33 14 years back I was 32-33 and he was 45-46 he was doing his whole body he was doing so big he was doing so big he was doing his whole body he was doing his whole body he was doing two halves so he was doing his whole body so that guy was doing dead lifts so they are the spets spetsnaz as Russians are good then Russians are also because when I trained with the USSR I was also ex-Petsnaz those guys were good they were good in their battlecraft and fieldcraft and forth fourth is I like these guys also Indonesians they were good they were very very nice everyone they would drink but their jungle survivals and unarmed combat was very good.

47:24Hand to hand combat they had come India exercise so Garud Shakti exercise they had come to our unit so I was seeing them. Garud Shakti is basically India and Indonesian forces special forces training together so one is inbound one is outbound we go to India in 2019 we go to them in 2020 we go to them in that year COVID we don't go there but the point is but then I saw those guys those were also good then your yeah these are the top 4 who's most underrated even Royal Marine Commandos were good like SAS Royal Marine Commandos were also British British we did joint training with them in 2007 who is most underrated you found that I never thought that these people can get a lot of shri lancans there was a saying in shri lancan army who will command a special forces unit he will be the man who will be alive in the LTT war you can imagine the kind LTT one point of time it was the most ruthless terrorist organization in the world it was the most ruthless so that was saying because I had training and I had to do courses to do it so I had special forces who felt like a demeanor like a little deal type but they were good and I saw a lot of combat like I had special forces unit command so I had that the officer sir, zinda bach gya kernel rank tuk, woh ben jayega CEO, unka qr yeh tha, toh humaray mein toh chlo course karne hai, kuch karna hai, yani thoda padaai karo ge aapki confidential reports thik honi chahi hai, toh phir aap bano ge, unka qr ta kye agar zinda bache us ladaai se, toh joh banda bache ga, this is a saying, this was a saying in their army so they were also good but they were they are couple of they are quite a bit of operations against LTT were they have done commendable yeah they were very battle hardened people too they were also good so they said that whoever is dead will be killed that was a joke tell me one thing each one of them what are they bad at bad at let's say first British

50:10too egoistic guys malleable they think they are a superior race altogether who are Americans they will not treat you like human beings they think we are too maybe they have fought or whatever it is but that kind of culture is there it's rampant they will not and they know they are the they are doing well also so so but Americans that is I think they are too much into that is humility and bad at I Russians and all I think so they can't survive without vodka I think so in their lives even if they are jumping to be like vodka because they jump Indonesians is similar like that and his cigarette smoking I have so many people drink cigarettes Indian people drink but they also smoke and drink but that kind of attitude 100 % of the people are all drinking because they used to stay in our barracks only so we kept there a cigarette butt I thought how many but they were fit but they were young also so they are different they are not yeah but that's how they do things maybe to keep them and then Sri Lankans Sri Lankans were fitness levels I found them to be low they were like much more healthier than what special forces and things were there but then they are compensated with combat that was hardened so they were out of their I was less I personally feel that army has to lean fight fighting type undernourished type looks so I find those kind of not the bulky kind of Americans and all are very very very heavy and they are right also the kind of weight they lift on their shoulders upper body strength is what are we bad at?

52:44I feel a little doubtful but we are we compensate the thing is you see Americans know even if they are in Helmand province of Afghanistan and Bagram Air Base when they launch they will get Blackhawks. Indian Army knows it might have to come back on foot. Which mindset is because of the air assets we have. Now, it's also improved but that kind of level that you have all operations you launch Blackhawks. So even if they we know that if we go inside but we have to go 20 kilometers or run so our lower body strength is nobody can match us nobody in the world when it comes to endurance Indian Army no one can match whether it is SAS or whosoever what's the most brutal training we go through they make you do funny things sometimes like you know where pigs stay when you put a month Tom Ford's perfume you don't know in the hen house just to see mental resilience how many chicken height is it now you can keep a man out of the house and then you can send it so these are kind it depends what person wants to put them in a septic tank then make them eat jalebi and puri I have done that so it's filth but you do it and there is no need to be a man 6.30 7 o 'clock just strip a guy and put it and put it in mosquitoes Moskitos come in front of you.

54:52You don't have to do anything. Don't give him any like the DMP oil comes in the cage. Let him stand in mosquitoes. You cannot and tell him not to move. You will fail the probation if you move. Moskitos can create havoc. Is this training? These are normal things. This you can do. Why you want to go into snake pits and all that? Moskitos will not let you stand.

55:20will it not bite the second is they used to tell me to dig a RL pit RL pit is 4 and a half feet deep so I will open it all night and the work is running then they will open it then they will open it again they don't let you sleep so there are 100 ways and means to test guys so they can be very normal tests normal look at people that they take a tool and when this is happening over a 90 days in a circle that is why one day one day one year it's like this it's like 4 4-5 12-12 you're you're you're you're 1000 ,000 push-ups कराओ rolling कराओ 20-20 km भगाओ इनसान को समझ नहीं है कुछ नहीं समझ निकाल दो सोने मत दो weapon देता हूं I will give you a weapon on those 90 days you cannot when you are sleeping also you cannot keep your weapon away the moment you keep it away Ustad आपका firing pin निकाल लेगा और फिर range पे लेकर जाएगा and say fire.

56:45Firing pin can't fire how do you go? So I see the weapons I see normal forces I see people don't do not do it. It is the only thing which needs to be worshipped. And special forces do you want to go anywhere. Do you want to go try to

57:16I am 100 % sure. Whether it is superstition, you need to respect that weapon. You need to clean it. And people who die in terrorist attacks are people who don't take care of the weapon. Because this, terrorists have told me before going for a fedain attack or anywhere, they will recce that place thousand times

57:43whoever it is in the uniform they will attack that guy. if you are holding it properly you are alert no matter what the greatest terrorist he will never attack and people don't respect the weapon people don't take pride in holding the weapon people don't understand the power of wisdom they don't understand the power of wisdom they eat the kill otherwise the man can't die they can't die they have to be very proud of the power of wisdom so these are all difficult things you imagine going to

58:20you are sleeping you are sleeping it becomes part of your body you will not treat your wife like this the way you treat your bloody weapon you don't do it if you have a option add a test to test some really hard soldiers that you can do it. What test will you make?

58:51Deprive them of sleep. That already happens. That happens, yeah. Something that doesn't happen, you feel like, I'll do this if it's in my hand, training for me. Those all of those, if you have to choose like, the cream. The cream. The cream. Yeah. What will be your test? Take them to extreme endurance activities. make them run like colossally high kind of aerobic endurance I will do a lot of aerobic endurance in the structure tell me how many kilometers you will do it what do you do minimum two three hundred kilometers per week what? yeah I will make them run two three hundred kilometers per every week because 200 kilometers per week yeah yeah I will make them run like ultra marathoners and then Then what I will do is that because if you have aerobic endurance, people will not agree with me.

59:53Maybe I agree. Doctors, I don't know. If your heart and lungs are in the right order, you don't require any muscles in your. Your heart and lungs should be the two most important muscles you should function in this world on. Normal muscles are okay. normal strength training and all you must do but heart and lungs are strong so endurance activity is the only thing that I will do it I made my unit run a lot but not this much I used to myself run a lot but it takes you to a different level you will never study in your life there is a book I read on Bakarwal's the nomads who are in higher reaches of JNK in an average life they walk I think so 30-40 kilometers per day every day in mountains maybe exceeding that they never fall ill and it is truth if your heart and lung is strong I used to be a bodybuilder I was a bodybuilder so I was a disease but when I went to endurance activity I don't think so I have fallen ill how much an average person would you have to do a day if a common person is watching minimum one hour of running.

1:01:11If he is able to do it, it's good at whatever pace he wants to do it. And no treadmills, no indoor workout. All the way outside. Let pollution kill you rather than inactivity. Yeah, I tell you, I tell it. I'm a, if I have to die, I will die with pollution. I live in Delhi. Okay. I'm willing to die with pollution because inactivity is the major, inactivity is a big problem. so endurance a lot of people also use treadmill and indoor workout because the heat it's okay it's not a habit so if someone all of a sudden is watching so if you look in the morning it will be a little fatal for them no no yes slowly slowly slowly but slowly what problem there's no problem get vitamin D you're already vitamin D deficient half of the nation I think so if someone will be a day then then I think so.

1:02:09That is my concept of fitness. So usually people don't take out time for their health anyway. So if they take out a minute then they want to do strength training. Yes, so you can do strength one day. One day you can do running. If you don't do five days, then do four days. Three days you can do strength training. But have cardiovascular fitness regime as part of your fitness. My meaning is that aerobic activity should be. Maybe if you don't do running, do swimming. go for long rides of cycling if someone is watching this podcast and watching this world war 2 let's give him a short master class on world war 2 can you give it the first world war it resulted in trench warfare so if you warfare modern times you can I mean, you can see all the warfare developments in the tactical level, equipment, conventional level, you can counter-terrorism and terrorism from the outside.

1:03:20So, the World War II is the greatest campaign.

1:03:26First, use of armor tactics, which you can move on, Blitzkrieg was called. that came in the Second World War. U-boats, submarines were still there. Radar systems were still there. Mass air drops, use of special forces. It was started. Every tactics, like I will tell you, I don't know, when we were young, there was a band of brothers on HBO.

1:03:56There was a band of Normandy landings. पे थी, so जब Normandy Landings हुई थी, तो जो capture of LMG Bunker की जो drills थी, उसको कैसे capture करना है, till 99-2000, जो West Point US Academy है, वो उसको आज तक वैसे ही सिखाती है, यानि there is no change in tactics, ground to air support, ground air support, Luftwaffe आगे जा रही है, tanks नीचे से move कर रहे है, air support दे रहे है, everything everything happened in world war 2 everything, koji iske baad tactics mein change nahi hua hai I don't see ki koji nai tactics yes, technological development hui hai, aapke space ki wo bhand gai hai, thik hai aapke surveillance capabilities bhand gai hai even if you, jitni spy counter intelligence, intelligence, counter intelligence chiz hai, saare chiz hai world war 2 mein hui thi, sab kuch practice hua tha, everything thing.

1:04:58So that is the greatest campaign. And which tactics are the same? Give me the top most three. Armored warfare which is the tanks. It is the same concept that is the infantry. Basically armored is that the tank's speed you can match so that you can penetrate and you can support support by air and everything. So they move. Okay, now mass airborne drops behind enemy lines. So if you have suppose this is a particular feature that you move in ground forces so you drop paratroopers back to the drop. They will capture a particular point. These forces link up and then your capture is faster if you have normal viewers it will fasten the process.

1:05:53So anything and everything special counter intelligence intelligence which used to be these all things even normal infantry tactics like you have light machine gun bunker to get where will it go so these all tactics refined but end nuclear bomb that was not known to human beings mankind mankind ko malumhi nahi tha ki wo itna nuqsaan, itna nuqsaan puncha sakte. They were never aware ki itna itna nuqsaan ho jai go. Tabhi nuclear power countries me la lai kan derti hain logu. Yeah. That is a deterrent. But that is why itni sarhi proliferations hain. Koi country nuclear yani uranium enrichment program bhi chalata hai.

1:06:42That's why jab 96, 97 mein am logu ne apne nuclear test kiye thai, sanctions were imposed on us. So that is the reason because people don't want that it's a proliferation so that is a non-proliferation treaty everybody has signed so that Russia didn't do it no I don't think so they have signed no they have not so they don't have a difference in the world Putin is Mr. Putin is like that he is in his own so that is what it is do you know about the dead hand conspiracy dead hand? no no I don't know what is that So Russia has technology. They have their weapon. Let's say, Russia's most dangerous weapon is dead hand.

1:07:30And that weapon is, that if Russia has nuclear launched in any other country, then there are sensors in multiple places, that automatically, Russia's nuclear missiles and nuclear power will get activated. And then those top leaders, let's say Putin or other leaders they will get notification and if they have not stopped then they will assume that they are dead and now they have in the whole world many places nuclear missiles that will go to the US from the parts of the powers many times during the Ukraine war he has told I will not hesitate to fire the nuclear to cross the nuclear threshold he has re-enunciated his policy he has changed कर दी थी क्या कि he told कि if you will अगर American की strategic missiles मुझे hit करेंगी तो I will I will initiate अगर कोई सामने border से cross करके इधर आ जाता है सबसे पहले कौन react करता है Air Forces Armed Forces नहीं यानि a person comes a person like some some guy some terrorist some militant militant तो there are security forces over there Air Forces Air Force के एक आदमी के लिए कोई मतलब नहीं वो तो counter infiltration role forces deployed army line of control majority of the time army you go through a lot of trainings plane when you hear crash what happens next parrotshoot में आप लोगों को एक चीज बता देता हूं कि आने का कोई system नहीं है यानि एक parachute jump में 30 % casualty is taken मतलब यानि कि अगर 100 लोगों ने jump किया और 30 parachute कहीं पर गिर गिर गिर गिर गिर गिर गिर कोई road पर गिर गिर کہیں پہ گر گیا that is given in a parachute jump 70 % کے ساتھ آپ اپنا task کرو گے and when paratroopers go inside تو وہ تو surrounded ہی ہیں یعنی گھرے ہی ہوئے ہیں because آپ تو دشمن کی area میں جا رہے ہو آپ کے اپنے land میں تو کوئی کام ہی نہیں ہے so you take it that it's fate accomplished یعنی آپ کی قسمت ہے اس دن تو تو اگر آپ کو training کیا دی جاتی ہے کہ اگر falls crash ہو گئے fighter jets سے یا parachutes سے آپ دشمن کی علاقے میں crash ہو گئے گر گئے اکھلے آپ کے troops are lagged.

1:10:10Then he will come back. Why do you think that? I don't know because that is a air force. We don't jump from fighter. We don't come from fighter. Yes, in transport aircraft if you are if you are, if you are 100 people jump if you are 30 % not even a drill which is all in which everyone is bhi aye to baqi 70 nikal jayenge but jayse aap un 30 min se hoye ki aap gir e and aap kahi akhele gir gaya baqi aapka troop ala gaya then what would you do what is the navigate aap ke paas abke paas plans hoote hain you have a map with you you try and go and fetch with your forces aisa nih ho saktah ki ek parachute drop hua aek puri yaani tokudi ya jobi aap troops gir ehen ki aek kahi alagi gir gaya ho aisa nih ho ta generally you are in the general area you will find because you have to know if you have to go after a RV drill which you have to say RV drill that will be where all the paratroopers are then they are we generally don't I mean, nobody is left behind but the point is if you have to go after a straggler so he fetches up he knows the plan because the plan which is what everyone knows So he has to fetch up to some point or the other.

1:11:39If it's in that condition or not, then people will not, I have just told you, if there are 30 people who are not able to go in the hill, leave them over there. Can SF, if we use SF, then can we end up a war? Smaller actions, yes. But if you will tell them to capture and hold ground like, normal army normal infantry to not do it which will not do it which will do it which special force which will normal army need to into strikes operations and finish it when you are looking for limited strikes important strikes very very important destroy destroy करना है कोई missile site को ओडाना है people will go destroy come back कोई सबसे जब से जब से capable है for winner loan operations this kind special forces में कौन सी special force सब से जब से जब से all are capable like I am from para special forces capable है but वो ही है कि वो operation किस domain पे किस terrain पे launch हो रहा है if it is in sea then Marcos might go and if it is in land mandate so that is how

1:13:08why is that why is that you know if you want to tell if you want to if you want to ask to special force Indian to 65 if you want to battle hardened بول ہوگی combat operations कि special force ने सब से आदा देखे है तो परा-SF ने देखे है because सारी जो militancy और everything जिसमें भी है परा-SF ही employed है and it is not कि Marcos employed नहीं होती है बट छोटे numbers में employed है और Garoads employed नहीं होती है छोटे numbers में employed है जो land-based operations है and jahaan per counter-terrorism Kashmir jayse jaga northeast ho gaya because para-sf happens to be there that is why winability jiska I have to tell you jiski kithne bhi training aap karlo the battle jiska barrel jyada garam raha wo jitega wo force hamisha achi ho so agar aap gallantry awards agar aap successful operations dhekho ge so nobody comes close to para-sf and then para-sf 1, 2, 3, 9, 7 these all numbers why are they?

1:14:22They are basically units. Okay. There is no other. There is no other. There are all numbers of the units. Okay. Basically, 1 para Punjab raised from Punjab. Punjab regiment. So, 1 para was Marathas. So, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. there's nothing there's no other reason to it which is the best kill experience like that I don't have anything and then you just went ahead with plan you killed it you did everything and came back kill experience it was a soft kill only but we were in a place where South Kashmir somewhere towards South Kashmir only and we were in an operation where we had a gender input but there was so much militant that I am talking 20-20 odd years back when the militancy was very much so what happened when we were inducted in this place so what happened is if we were in our base if we were in the night go to the morning, when you reach the morning, you will have to kill the morning, and you will have to kill the morning, and you will have to kill the morning.

1:15:54On the first day. And if by chance there is nothing to happen in the morning, then by afternoon, it is 100 % sure that you will have some kind of contact. Any firefight will be. if by chance that 100 % will come next morning you will go a little hour and go basically you are walking at night and reach the place 700 % first light on your head counter so myself and my buddy were sitting and we were on the first day so and because there was no security forces that were not only special forces used to operate nobody used to go so it was a free run so you didn't need to work much and me and my buddy we were sitting behind a tree and we saw two guys and the militant didn't even see any weapon they had a pouch and kept them and they were because they knew the army will not come over here till the time we hit them so there was a track down which was a road behind it we were on a mid ridge kind of track we were at least 60-70 meters behind it and there were two guys we saw crossing from there we started observing we saw them from 1.500-200 meters and when they were just in front of us at around 60-70 meters one of them guys stopped and he started walking directly towards us I don't know from where did he get into the intuition?

1:17:39One was going to go on the normal. And

1:17:45so this guy comes up and the other guy stops. They spoke in the same way. They were FTs. So he started to go up. So the way he was because it was an uphill. We were sitting here. We were here. He was an uphill. He was an uphill. So, I was on to the left and my buddy. So, I took the first shot to him. That was precisely, I think so. Three rounds we fired. Or two. Yeah. So, I fired him the first shot. And my buddy, because he was on the other side, he pointed to the next guy. So, it was a cross kind of a thing. I just took the aim and I shot him first. first hit him over on the I think so rib cage because he was climbing up so

1:18:47he just put his hand down and he turned back he thought somebody has shot him from behind in the meantime my buddy had engaged the other guy so he hit him with the first bullet and I hit him over here so he turned back and he couldn't see anything he took up his weapon and fired indiscriminately towards Hawa Makayip. Then he turned back. And then I took the second shot. Straight over here. At 20, 30, 35 meters. His head blasted. The precision of that even doesn't go away from my mind. It was a very good shot. Three rounds, two militants could finish. With a prize, five seconds. And we walked complete night.

1:19:38So it's a matter of four, five seconds. Beautiful. Memorable. Beautiful. India is the most dangerous weapon. Our population. It's the dangerous, most potent thing which we have. In every sphere. Nobody can conquer us with that kind of population. It might be, in which places it is, but population is our strength, our people. our people are our strength global economies wherever you see you see people who are dependent on exports internally consumption is so much we will never go under recession that kind of recession which foreign countries go in it is our strength we must work on it and what's our biggest weapon on battlefield biggest weapon on battlefield I will talk from the army point of view it's not a weapon per se it is leadership Pakistan fails because of its leadership India wins because of its leadership there are no better leaders than Indian army the officers and every junior leadership JCOs NCOs there is no one better that is the greatest quality you can have any of kinetic energy take care take care take care take care take care but if you don't have the leadership to lead in battle so leadership is our strength Pakistani lacks in leadership they don't have the leadership what is your opinion on made in China weapons Chinese grenades yeah militants used to carry them they're good they're good they're good they're good because we have got my tongue in the CK splinter so what are you talking yeah yeah I didn't know this yeah yeah I've got grenade splinters in our operation.

1:21:35We were in, we were searching for the house with specific input. And when we took the house and took the house, the last piece, it was a double, single story house, but one ground floor was on top. So there was an opening where I was searching for. So I had put my weapon down and saw it and there was a sack in it. So I thought that there was nothing. I probed my barrel like that like a big person stood behind he said he knows that he was closer than you so he opened up the AK-56 on me and from this range I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

1:22:35So I pushed him behind after firing. And this guy lobbed two grenades on me. So when I went down from the first floor, it was a 10 feet fall. But as it was a house, the slope of the forest started. So I went down from the veranda and these grenades blasted over here. So those splinters are in my leg. so my buddy was grievously injured usco on me evacuate kar diya tha and I stayed for the whole night we eliminated one guy he was trying to 2 terrestres we killed one we had to kill from the floor and the second guy who was the main guy who shot at me he was the main guy who was the main guy who shot at me my buddy evacuated and then at the morning we told him why surrender he was not surrendering so got an RLN blew the house.

1:23:30So, yeah. That grenade splinters man told the doctor, he told that keep it inside. These are souvenirs of war. So it's still inside. No, no. It's very quickly. Like you make tattoos and you think that in tattoos it's like a pain you can do it five, ten times more. It's so fast. But because you're firing you're firing your life if all the mental faculties are there, then the pain is not aware. After that, then the pain is dissolved. So they don't take it out. It will dissolve. Like a normal surgery, where if I didn't open the parachute, then my tongue was torn. So, it was inside the parachute. The parachute didn't open?

1:24:19Yeah. We were in a training exercise in Rajasthan. So, night jump. And I was commanding commanding my unit. So, my team exercise was our team. So, we were jumping in Jaisalmer and we were jumping from C-130. So, if you can see Russian-made aircrafts and you can see American, Russian-made AN-32 has got just a straight opening. You can sit and you can go outside. For the C-130, you go like this, hold your a rigging line and turn left and then exit. So, I was I think the first guy in the aircraft. So, when I, when I left like that, I turned left and then my head started on the door. So, when I started on the door, my position changed.

1:25:17So, you have to come in a very compact position. So, when it changed, then my rigging line was a static line. which was the parachute opened so the rigging line was out of it when it was out of it the parachute was out of it in 3-4 in the distance so the rate of descent so the rigging line was out of it now my hair was out of it the drill is to pull the rigging lines like this and take your head out now my head is not coming and this is all you jump at a height of 1200 feet for the basic jump during training but during exercises because they are practicing you for low level drops the height was around 900 feet so I didn't open it so I opened it with big difficulty I'm also getting on the ground and then our which is a rucksack which we keep in touch so it's a lever Ricky Ruben Rucksack ground Phr hit Karayga To us Ke 2 Second Ya 1 Second Phrat You Know Ground You Have Position Tight Kar Liet You But It Not It Has Tang Phrat Now I Knew That Today My Day Is Good So I Try To Make Whatever Positions And I Undershoot Is That Part Of Drop Zone Which Is J Pahle Waala Hiss Hatha Jis Drop Ho Na Chahyye So generally, when training exercise goes on, we keep the area clean in 3-2 km.

1:27:26In undershoot, it falls down. That area generally doesn't clear because you don't get that kind of full flight path you don't get. You don't get a clear area. I went, it got broke from two places. Then I went, when I fell, I knew it was ад and it was pineapple Fram Wash but I was aligned I said he impossible toăn for you and then he quedamos around almost one thousand kilometers and then we take it up and of course after Pegasus of that domination and then from there the next period when the actions Congress completed the %. that is what it is so these are the things which which happen mindset how do you make a grenade after you have to fight no, it's survival if I'm going to fight then it will kill me there is survival training ground I'll go to my tank and then I'll go back this all how do you what is there inside your head that I'm not going to do it's definitely not just money.

1:28:49No, no. It is not about money. Exactly. It is not about money. It is not about money. It is about mission accomplishment. It is about the task which you have been given. You are the commanding officer of that unit. I am commanding seven para special forces. What goes in your head? At any cost, I am the person I don't know about higher ups. I became a colonel that is also grace of Lord Shavon what a commanding officer is to a unit is like those 500-600 people 200-300 families wives, kids, kids those 600 guys if I tell them go to war they will just go and do go for war. They will not even blink.

1:29:48They don't want my brigade commander to tell me. They don't listen to him. They don't listen to the GOC, Major General rank. Core commanders don't listen to him. Honorable defense minister doesn't have anything to do with the honourable defense minister. It is on my word, they go to war. And I owe that allegiance to those men to lead them into battle. Even if I have to sacrifice everything To win their trust I will do it I have never seen my sons grow in my life I was out for 4 am I was out for training At 7 am They were sleeping At 3 am They were sleeping At 10 am They were sleeping I have just seen them grow like this On the bed I have given everything that I have got But for me That life I chose it was matter of greatest honor to lead those guys into battle and if I can walk with a broken ankle for one kilometer they will bloody well walk that was the reason I can't fail them if I fail them because on my word they are leave out India, Pakistan and anything they don't give anything about anything in this world you talk about leadership ki baat karte ho this is what leadership is it cannot be superficial sitting from here in park blue normal environments it starts with the first man on the ground with the first light of the sun jo bhaar aati hai and you live that life every single day whether your family is there or not whether your children are there or not those are your children those are your people And how do you build that leadership How do you build that How do you build that You are Gonna stand for your people And your people will stand Be with them Suffer And do everything for them Create pride Of the nation's flag And then your unit's flag And unit flags will come first Because That bunch of people Is getting motivated by they are working for that unit.

1:32:08So every unit will have nation flag. Every unit will have its unit flag. The world cannot be less. There cannot happen. It is, the purest form of love which I have ever done in my life is with the nation, is with my unit, is with my troops. I have no problems in saying. I have not even loved my parents more the way I have loved this country. And the way I loved. And when we are fighting, my best buddy is a sardar. Second best buddy is from, he's a Christian. Then there is a Muslim. So there is a certain religion in the temple. There is a photo of Ram Bhagwan. There is a Quran of Allah. You have Guru Granth Sahib also.

1:33:01And you have Bible also. and you are born by India the brotherhood it doesn't see any religion everyone is that is the greatest secular organization you can have anywhere and your mother, father, brother sister, friends nobody is there when the bullet came it is the guy next to you so that kind of leadership, that kind of things will only come when you see combat. When they say very loosely from boardroom to battlefield, you can never create in boardroom. No boardroom world of leadership can't teach you. Military leadership if you have business and you will have money you will not know. You can rebuild it.

1:33:52Where you will not know what will you do? So military leadership can never be rebuilt in these stupid boardrooms. And if you think you can match military leadership, you are a fool. You cannot match. I'm telling you, blatantly I'm telling it. People who have seen it, people who have served, they will tell you what I'm trying to say. You might use it as a punchline. But there are people dying every day. Protecting people, they don't know that people are dying somewhere. A normal guy walking in Mumbai, Delhi, any part of country might not know that there's a guy dying over there. A very good example I will give you.

1:34:41I was going to Kazakhstan Special Forces Excise for me. And I was the observer over there.

1:34:51And there was an Indian lady that was traveling with me. Okay, she was an Indian lady. and her husband was in a leading multinational company over there, working over there or she asked me, what do you do? Well, I am from the army because we were in the same flight to Almaty and well, okay. So she says to me that I was aghast. I felt so weird that people think that this is the same. And this is year July 2015. she said army is only for playing sports how can this possible and she was an engineer herself and her husband was also engineer what do you think is happening in the state of that was it was not even a union territory who is working in JNK and Northeast so I was like do people know what is your forge doing what is doing for you?

1:35:57That is the kind of things I heard in my life. Really? Does that happen? Yeah. This is with me. I've never met anyone. This is, this is, this is, now that media might have done that thing, you have proliferated it down. But that was the reality. She told me, I was aghast. I am like, this is a world. But that is what happened. I won't lie for it. But that is how people do. You need to understand. And when you go outside, national character. Earlier they used to play national anthem in PVRs and every places. It is good they have stopped playing because people can't stand still for 52 seconds. It is the greatest sound which a man hears in his life.

1:36:52That is your national anthem. It is a matter of pride. And you can't stand still young people. And you talk of national character. And you go outside US, any part. Even if you are from Indian Army, they will respect you. In Russia, a newlywed couple goes to war memorial. To pay homage to the people who have died. How many newlywed couples go in India? And then you say that I have a national character. We use it as a punchline. We use it as a thing which is not, it doesn't run in our blood because we are not affected with it. I've met people and my family, friends and acquaintances. I see all the armed forces from top level respect and eyes.

1:37:42Insane gratitude. I probably see someone in life who doesn't know what the armed forces are doing. You are telling it that these things are happening. I'm coming over here and speaking. you're talking about people who are still people who are still don't understand the value okay people and there are platforms because now people have started to realize it through podcasts there was one guy I met in hospital couple I had gone to meet my friend and the couple and the lady looked very sick. I'm a young couple, 30, 30, 32, 33. And the husband came up to me and he told, Sir, are you, I saw your podcast.

1:38:36I was there. So, thanks for your service. Thanks for your support. I tell everyone, I tell everyone, thanks for your service. So, I said, thanks for your support. The lady, wife was very sick. I said, yesterday I watched a podcast my wife is there and she is sick. And that night when I watched your podcast I was planning to commit suicide and I watched it five times and look my wife has recovered 20%. and I have recovered 60-70 % I was thought everything will be finished but I saw your podcast and then I told I think so it was our first part only but then I changed my life so I am not denying it so what is your channel what is your medium it should be proliferated more still every every child every citizen of this country should because armed forces when we were operations so it was not that I am protecting my family or it is for protection of the whole of India yeah well perfect thank you so much sir and thank you so much pleasure is all mine I hope we we had a good discussion today of course we did I love talking to you.

1:40:17No. And it just flows and it keeps flowing again and again and again. I'm not a guy who gets stagnated and nothing in this world can stop me. And you're ready to put in the effort. Yeah, I put in effort. I'm telling you because if you have to go to that type level, you have to empower yourself. With knowledge. Okay. First attempt, a clear army. Second attempt, a clear army. Third attempt, I didn't get army. First, special forces' probation key, he didn't clear it. Second key, third probation key. There's no officer in the Indian army who's done three probation. Probation ka 1 day is like 1 year for a normal guy.

1:40:52So, keep on going.

1:41:23I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.