Ind-Russia Special: US Dollars vs Rupees, We*pons, Oil, Trading, Modi & Putin| Runjhun | FO442 Raj Shamani

44:14say

44:23what is the problem with the policy in fact I can also tell you there are some journalists India who are so praise government wow wow I was sitting with a government official on TV I was a journalist of course government and this official

44:59so they want to also be criticized journalists need to be journalist I think they've forgotten how to be a journalist they just think that to survive you have to impress but not really you were saying perception painting everyone does own perception painting and you said I asked you that every country has a propaganda tool and you beautifully termed it as perception building I want to understand perception of Russia, India, all of these things from your lens so many years of friendship and no one can deny it Russia has been a true friend to India they have been supporting us what's the foundation of it and that friendship now what you've been seeing for the last several years, a decade or a little more, has been Modi Putin.

45:47But the friendship between India and Russia has been beyond Modi Putin, right? And that friendship has been built over trust. You know, when India is with anyone, then India is with Soviet Union in India. First while, Soviet Union. And India has never forgotten. If you talk about defense, the most trusted partner for India, it remains Russia. I think this generation, you're a Gen Z Raj, so let me put it that way. In the last generation, the Soviet Union, the books of there, the literature, Pushkin, it was very prevalent. It was very, very westernization. It was less. There is no doubt about it.

46:46But I feel that the geopolitical circumstances have and just that, you know, the war in Ukraine started and Russia peh sanctions lagi. back then this is several years ago when India pressed the panic button saying that Pakistan is being attacked we need help India has all the help soviet union stood up this time when the sanctions got everything in Russia the Indian government was very nonchalant. He said, we don't believe unilateral sanctions we don't believe we want to buy oil we will buy we want to buy defense equipment we will buy defense equipment whether the foreign minister Dr. S. J. Shankar the oil minister Hardeep Singh Puri they've been so sharp about it you know they've given it back to with facts with figures we have to do what we have we have to do and we'll do it.

48:00So, that also, you know, that phase, for me, I see it as a revival of the Russia-India friendship, you know. You will see that Modi, he went to Russia at least two times in the last one year. When Modi was a visit, there was this gathering with Zelensky. All Western leaders were standing for a summit. And they were basically trying to give out this message that Russia is isolated. We're standing with Zelensky and the world is supporting Ukraine. Who is standing with Putin? Mr. Modi. standing with him shoulder to shoulder, you know, talking about procuring more defense, talking about buying more oil.

49:00So, you know, that message has been very, very strong. And it's, in a sense, become a revival of the India-Russia friendship. And now, Artie coming to India in a big way. In fact, we're calling it a new voice from an old friend, you know, This is a voice joke He's not in India He's coming He's coming He's coming Does that mean We will just do Oh India is so great No We will do stories As you're supposed to do If someone's wrong Then it will be But You will always Patronize You will always Patronize You know You would look at India As an equal So, that whole game changes. But what is the foundation?

49:55How did the start start? Why are they supporting Russia and India? And now India is supporting them as well. What is the basis? You can say it was geopolitical. In the beginning, US and Pakistan were supporting. Soviet Union supported India. India. But beyond geopolitics, that people to people connect is also very real. I mean, I keep traveling to Moscow every few months. I don't think I'm not in India. Really? I mean, infrastructure, yes. But the people, they're like Indians. How do Russians see Indians? As equals. They're so interested in the Indian culture. They are so interested in Hinduism.

50:46They're so interested in, you know, just different facets of the fabric of India. And they want to know more, you know. So, that was missed, that was a little time lost. They want to sort of understand India. I think another thing is that both India and Russia are not entitled. India has seen it. India was colonized. The British left us some 76 years ago in ashes. Nothing was left. Everything was left. And with the self-respect, the Soviet Union helped India build from scratch. maybe it will be steel, you know, anything of the help. So, when India was a little bit and was a little bit and was a little bit and left India, again, Russia has helped.

51:45Russia has helped. So, those things, they generationally, you don't even know but it will stay somewhere or somewhere. Then, another thing I think is that when you saw the war, like when the Soviet Union collapsed, for example, there was so much starvation back in the day in Russia then you had to take food you had to take a line you had to take a line you had to take a long line after one hour you had to take a bread now when I go to Russia I'm always trying to find you know grandmoms and granddads from the Soviet era just to sort of like ask what their struggles would have been and it was a deeply traumatic time for them you know when you don't eat so so you don't see and you can't understand that India was the same it was very poor so when you get out of the struggle and then it grows up it stays different but when you have everything and when you take everything so you get the fun And how do Russians perceive Putin as a problem?

53:07So, I'll tell you how I perceive Putin. And then I'll tell you how Russians perceive Putin. For me, Putin is a very astute leader. A very astute statesman. Explain. So, again, Western media would paint Putin as this dictator. You know, that the government runs, tells us what to happen, how to happen. You can't do this in Russia, you can't do that in Russia. Yes, there are some things you can't do. But on the global stage, Putin brings about democracy. Because if Russia was not led by a strong leader like Vladimir Putin, and if someone is a weak leader, the US is saying something, Yes, we will listen to you.

53:56You will say, we will do it. So, in the global stage, there is a monopoly, West, which is going on. But he resists. He is a man who will do what he wants to do. So, in the global stage, there is a democracy, there is a equality. There is a world where there is a multi-polarity. There is no one narrative. of course this is a problem. So I think Putin is very, very, you know, smart, astute. How do Russians perceive Putin? In all of the gatherings where I've gone, where Putin comes, the kind of welcome he gets, you know, Putin wait like I told you wait karate hai haan haap wait karte hai or bina kisi shikaayat ke wait karte hai ek ghanda do ghanda kyo mind game power game you know you can call it whatever you want but you know I mean I think there was this very famous story that Putin also made the queen wait once so he doesn't care he doesn't that's fine what does he do power game um i i i wouldn't know i wouldn't know it's like you wait for me so you should know i'm you know i think he's beyond that the moment he comes people are standing they're giving him a standing ovation they are clapping and the energy in that uh in that space it changes the way he walks in the way he addresses the public and then after a while people just like start clapping like a little too much

55:56so he's an enigma but is it fear or respect? it's respect because why? people are scared they are scared they are scared they are coming then because they have been so many years so probably some people have also accepted that they will be here for sure and they will be here for many years

56:21that's what one can imagine but they have done what they did for Russia they have done a lot so people are also thankful for that if you go to Moscow today and I've traveled a lot in European countries and a lot of beautiful European cities. I think Moscow is stunning and it's so much more cleaner than like so many other parts of the world. And it's got so much mystery to it, you know. Because there are so many people who are going to Paris, they go to their own money, they have to be a bugler, they have to be a loot.

57:09but you know so Russia has really risen in that sense or

57:21you know like for Russia it's important to be they're nationalists you know do they like him love him are they too dependent on him Russia is too dependent on Putin Like what after him? Yeah, so that's a very, very good question. And I asked that question to somebody when I was in Russia the last time. And the answer that I got and the answer that I will give you now is that good leaders, they never reveal their gods. So I'm pretty sure that he has a plan. What after him? Because he loves Russia and he will not leave Russia in just any random hands. I'm sure he's got a plan sorted out, but we would never know that plan till we have to know that plan.

58:15How strong is Russia today after two years of global sanctions? It's very interesting. When you go to Russia, especially after war, people have perception that war has been made all this.

58:37the war would have sort of disrupted not just the economy but the very fabric of how people are sort of living there. But what happened after sanctions? Many of those, say for example, McDonald's, this, that, they pulled out. So, a lot of companies pulled out. But the infrastructure, I'm giving you a very vague, very loosely, I'm giving you an example of McDonald's. but infrastructure McDonald's left that people went McDonald's going same burgers there but the money is now staying within Russia there's no money which is going back to the McDonald's Russians in Russia someone picked up to make a restaurant and McDonald's like McDonald's Exactly, exactly.

59:35And that McDonald's money is coming to Russia because part of that money would go back to the guys who owned McDonald's, right? So the burger is as tasty or as whatever like not tasty. But it's the same thing. So it's like everything. That's how the countries get strengthened. Where there is more money, we sell our country so that we make money. now these people are not able to sell so how much internal consumption will be there so overall where the economy will be it's not like there is no difference in the economy so this is the reason why the west is also trying to sanction Russia as much as possible whether it's oil you know or it's roundabout way they're selling all of it oil and gas you hear India can hear that you don't buy oil, but you also buy oil.

1:00:34Russia. So, of course they're buying oil, but they try to put these caps, that you don't buy enough, you don't buy enough. It's not possible to get your convenience. There are also new set of sanctions on two of Russia's biggest oil companies, Luke Oil and Rosneft. And there are lots of reports happening now, Do India can't get oil or not? But there are always like these loopholes in the system, right? Because if you sanction a company, then the company will give you oil. You will take it from another place. It will happen. So in my understanding, we're trying to find ways of still procuring. Because India has no other options.

1:01:24You have been in Venezuela. You have been choking on something. Where India can't get it, can you tell India don't tell India don't take it from there you can take it from there in Europe they become like cold winters so you have to take it but then you can take it and don't take it and then once the oil comes to India for example India is refining that oil and India is selling it to the US and to everybody else because once the oil is refined so the sanctions haven't worked it's a reality the sanctions have not worked in Russia and they've not had the kind of impact that they thought it will have in the Russian economy and it is because of India a large part of it well for sure and that's why I said that this is almost like a revival we have been buying we have been clear we are like national interest first everything else later so we buy then we send it to the world and that's why the US India is also happening right for sure also when India was making oil at the beginning you took Russia the international financial system of the traditional way of doing payments so when you took it out of SWIFT they thought that we will not get into transactions how will you change the currency what will happen but Rupi Ruble trade started and that became such a trend now that so many countries now are talking about trading in local currencies so many countries are now trading in local currencies India is trading not just with Russia in local currencies but other countries as well what's happening with that?

1:03:15De-dollarization so the sanctions are also on their head and have they become more dangerous now after this war on Ukraine? who has become more dangerous russia dangerous to who the world ukraine who just dangerous to the world and in themselves ki hum kisi hum like and then we'll be unapologetic about it now nobody can do anything about it the globe so it can also make them unapologetic and there can be two ways one is internally they're bleeding and they just want a way out so they might be weaker from inside but what you are telling it looks like they've gotten stronger economy relationships plus the uh

1:04:38the courage

1:04:44When the world has progressed so much, why do you need a military alliance? Why do you need a NATO? You know, and your neighbor is saying that we are joining NATO. joined so Russia does not want the war the war has really prolonged now the hope is that it stops at some point Trump is trying his little trick there as well as he says that he wants to stop all wars in the world but if war is then of course Russia is the advantage of course is there is damage toh hai na people bhot nuksan hai and agar ap economy sab kuch sab bhi side rak toh people dying you know nobody wants that for their people you know Russia loves their people Russia loves Russians you know we want to population dynamics dekhe or or Russians chahi hai Russia ko so it's tricky to think I don't know if they've gotten weaker or dangerous I wouldn't say they've gotten dangerous like I said but have they gotten weaker then they're sustaining you know they're sustaining are they dependent on are they self-sufficient actually that they're dependent silently on India and China every country is dependent on some country or the other right if you're talking trade here that is just in all economy are they dependent too much on China and India?

1:06:26For example, India. When China was still doing trade with China, so trade has been done. So, I mean, of course, if that's dependence, then that is dependence. Of course, Russia trade and for example India imports about like 40 % of its defense its arms and defense needs from Russia and but that's always happening if you want to buy in defense but if you see India is also working you know like like the s400 for example during the the conflict in kashbir it came in very handy so it's a transaction of course it needs partners and of course um kuch logo say ab kuch countries say wo trade nahi kar pare so uh by default then unka east reach out um India China Africa as well um so yeah if you call that dependence then you may what's their superpower why are they thriving what Russia superpower ultimately this is one thing like India's superpower is talent oh you think so I definitely we are a talent supplier to the world now and slowly we will turn that into something that youngest population talented energetic jet take kush na kuch we will do with us so that's where we're dealing so I said what's Russia there's so good at so many things the first thing we have so much time that you have to take it because you have to survive a winter they're oil but they're so good with their defense you know they're so good with space for example India and Russia when we talk about friendship So, these sectors are merged in it.

1:08:37The first person who was in India, Rakesh Sharma, was in Russian, you know, Cosmonauts, in Russian spaceship. So, they're so good. But I just, I feel that a lot of times they've been branding. And for us too. like because we we've what we've grown up watching a lot of like western films this that um so for example me when i when i when i go when i'm meeting people very loosely huh people in a very uh sort of fun sometimes even enduring and loving way they're like oh my favorite kgb spies here the kremlin spy in new delhi like wow you know the whole perceptions um it has drilled so good in so many things why has it attacked majority I'm sure they're gonna agree to this that a lot of us we see Russia as this something is wrong like there is something some alternate agenda there is something it is like that some evilish that something is wrong want to be a spy maybe they will do this drug dealers hackers power Russian mafias nuclear power space nuclear nuclear nuclear they have been painted as this criminal now the reality that it is actually painted I wouldn't know that but there is some sort of inhibition listen but each time you watch a western movie where a Russian comes from a show on Netflix where a Russian comes from what will happen either he will be a spy or a Russian mafia you know this guy bald head Dimitri or a Russian hacker or a Russian hacker or a drug dealer or a drug dealer and we can see we can consume But I also think that Russians also need to sort of buckle up a little, make movies.

1:11:01I would like to name Westerners too. Why should it be like one way? Make good movies that, because you have to give credit to the West, right? They have made so powerful movies. And the character building of Russians into spies and mafias, that has been so believable over time. that you can't deny that there are highest number of spies Russia has highest number of world level hackers Russia has good stuff this is reality which is the big scams that are maximum Russia that are cyber crimes that are the whole globe these are facts so are people showing their I mean you wouldn't want to show it about other countries that there is not but you have to tell me last time we had what What news was that Russia had hacked someone?

1:11:55How many Russian hackers' individual capacity you put out. Right now you just search anywhere, whatever is available. Now you can also debate that they don't have Western media articles. I would say that. See, whatever is out there on whatever data stats we have, maximum number of cyber crimes which are hackers who do it what are Russian what are they doing all financial data people do it crypto bank accounts what are they doing but but you can tell me that here country but here numbers we will debate which country which is the worst which is the other countries which is the other You know. I think that perception, and this perception, let me also tell you, Raj, this is just Russian spy, Kremlin spy, or KGB spy.

1:12:59It's not limited here. Russian girls too. For example, what you see in India, they look so beautiful to start with. Sometimes, or at least like, you know, again in the movies, many of these Russian women are portrayed as escorts, or prostitutes. So then you see, it's a very loose way of even looking at Russian women, which is nonsense, just because they're beautiful women. I mean, Russian women are so beautiful. I'll tell you the first time I went to Moscow, and I was walking on the streets of this beautiful Moscow city center. They dress up so well, they wear such beautiful clothes, they're so fit, they look so beautiful I was just like looking at myself in the mirror in the hotel room I was like will I survive here?

1:14:02so yeah it's a way to I think stereotype tell me one dark side of Russia tell me something which is wrong what's their weakness? First of all, there is also a lot of people. So the government is like literally requesting people to produce more children so that the demography you know like Far East all of these areas. When both of Russia are friends, they are a lot. Totally. But that's the thing about Russia. You always ask me. That's just my perception. They want Russians. You know? They want immigrants. You can't go there so easily. you can't go there. You can't live in Russia. The immigrants laws are strict.

1:14:51Why? I mean... When you want to do multi-polarity, to welcome the whole world, then you can grow up every place. It's hypocrisy. You know, you can call it hypocrisy. We have to grow up with our people, but we have to do friends. What is it? but their friends are true I'm not denying I'm not denying that at least India's friends are strong and they're always standing, India is standing but this is a little but you can believe it as a way, you can see it as a nationalist nationalist your flesh, your blood that race also it also could be because

1:15:51then you want more of your kind first and then but I mean I agree with you

1:16:02so that's their weakness what else what do you feel because you were there What are the most important problems on streets for people?

1:16:14Look, if I talk about the main part of Russia, St. Petersburg, Moscow, I don't see any problems on streets. Neither are thieves, nor beggars. It's not. I don't see racism on there. especially when you're an Indian they're very happy each time I go there and they look at me having dinner or at this restaurant where people can come and speak to each other they would just come and they'd be like so you know so they're all nice and whatever but yeah there are places under under but I think that's something it's always like the capital city it's always the main cities the salaries are very high the life standard is different but despite the fact like in these places where inflation is jobs are not so good big car jobs they don't give much money the way you get in the main cities but their health care you know that education if you're studying in school in college everything is state funded everything is state run so you don't have to give money you don't have to give money so in that sense maybe your job in far flung areas of Russia you don't have to cry for your children what do they get wrong about us what's the question the very fact our complexities that can also be our strength is that what you mean yes because sometimes when I watch certain stuff on certain media I feel like a lot of biased media from the west they report us as if we are some exotic zoo like we are not like it's a country which is thriving and we are left right center leapfrogging in so many things we are progressing growing at an exceptionally good rate that's what we're saying now we're talking about snake chalmers now we're talking about that and they just for some reason they love associating their taglines with some animal and everything has a animalistic instinct crime is a crime yes you report it as a crime don't need to attach it to some sometimes I feel like it is funny it is it is but you would be able to tell me people can sort of sniff through it right people are a lot of Indian I mean India consumption of such media houses has reduced significantly now people don't have a difference then tell us what's happening to us one thing which I feel was a very historical moment in the world geopolitics.

1:19:36Recently, that image came out. Which one? Three people. One in the middle and doing this. You know that picture you've seen, right? I thought you were going to say Mr. Modi with... That's what, his hands together with both of the people. Russian, China, and then India. Right? That was the most historic... It was. two pictures actually so one was these three leaders together holding hands holding hands it's like insane stark pictures beautiful the second picture of Mr. Modi and Mr. Putin sitting in that car together you know the fact that they carpooled to the summit and this wasn't planned as per media reports and usually these things don't happen, right?

1:20:33In a third country, apparently Mr. Putin waited for 10 odd minutes for Putin waiting, you know, for Modi to come and sit in the car. And then they were in the car for about 50 minutes chit-chatting. Now, of course, there's a statement that comes out, right, from the Kremlin and from the Indian PMO. very filtered version of what they spoke about. But just like, can you imagine, can you imagine being the driver in that car and listening to that conversation? I would die to be the driver in that car, you know. They would have also spoken about, I'm pretty sure about Putin coming to India, you know.

1:21:18That is something that the world is going to be watching and watching very closely because the last time Mr. Putin was here, was in 2019 and then the war started. COVID and then the war. And since then, Putin hasn't traveled to a lot of countries, right? Sanctions, airspace, this, that. But his visit to India will be historic now in more ways than one, you know. So, that. What do you think? friendship, newly formed, trying to have a friendship, India, China, Russia, all three together. Is it friendship or just convenience at this point against the US? So the triangle that we are talking about, in the triangle also, there are very, very nuanced relationships, right?

1:22:15So let's talk about like these relationships separately and then the triangle. We have a Modi and a Putin where there's this deep friendship. Each time they address each other, they call each other, my dear friend, my dear friend, always. The way they shake hands, the way they hug, it's not the same how they do it with other leaders. So this is a partnership. This is a friendship where trust is a big factor. Then there's, of course, China and Russia. So when she's meeting Putin, China is known as the big brother of Russia, right? And a big trading partner as well. so yeah that's a big brother meeting um it's it's it's um you know brother that he loves and supports and stands by um and then comes india and china you know we've had a very very um how do you say, a very chaotic sort of a relationship also in the backdrop of the galwaan clashes, the bloody skirmishes that we saw at the border.

1:23:37After that, the relationship came almost at a standstill, you know, and it hit rock bottom. It's like, now it's not okay. But suddenly, it, you know, and the melting of hearts happened in the very cold Kazan in Russia last year during the BRICS summit when they held the first bilateral in some five odd years. And then things improved. There were several rounds of talks between the ministerial rebels and defense and this and that, pushing back from the border and so on and so but Trump when he came to power India ne kya socha India ne socha ki hum India like Trump the BJP like Trump the right wing love Trump tosthi hai humari Trump pi friend tha hai jo bhi so India was of the perception that we have enough experience with the first Trump presidency and now with the second Trump presidency it'll be like a cakewalk and we're all around because both have been championing each other as well correct in fact India was one of the few countries which they openly supported correct but the response came from there the niceties of diplomacy that was in dustbin.

1:25:12And trade and India is tariff king you are buying Russian oil so we will put penalties sanctions, tariff 50 % tariff highest in the world stop buying Russian oil and suddenly it became so much about Trump's ego that you are buying Russian oil without my permissions that's not cool. India was cool headed India was like we have to do what we have to do and that's when we saw all these pictures coming together. In this relationship, India and China are in this triangle, the India-China relationship is more of a marriage of convenience. Yes, it's going now, we're going together, we'll see the next thing.

1:26:02What will happen? But the triangle together becomes very powerful. and a lot of geopolitical experts have spoken about it that if these three countries can come together, this is a new power dynamics we are talking about. In your RT? Of course. Would you show all of this side? Of course. The people who are wrong with Indians are saying that they have done this, this, this, this, this Indian countries. Would you show that? For sure. Do you do that already? We do. We do. again our lens is an equal lens of an equal right so jab there's a spurt of racism against Indians in any particular country we're trying to we're trying to investigate ki kiyo horai kya horai indians ki against he kiyo when when Indian leadership for example is is bad-mouthed for doing what?

1:27:04For trading with a particular country. Why? So we question, we question our tagline as questioned more. So it's also a constant pushback, the Western narrative, pushing back of the Western narrative and understanding that that other point of view you know the mainstream media has been so prominent and so persistent in the country and in the global south and both the audience in India and the world audience in India want to become a perception of India's perception. banta jaata hai. We don't get too much into the internal politics. We're more of a geopolitical lens. And that's also, Raj, I'll tell you why.

1:28:03Because RT as a channel is not preachy. Hum yeh nahi karte ki hum dousre ke country mein jai. Because whatever, it's a Russia state owned global media network, right? So, why does Russia give the right to go to another country, why not it is India, and do a judgment on India, and preach on India, that you need to do your foreign policy, or how do you do your internal politics. And that's the reason we don't get into internal politics. what is going on the way it is going on the country will on the contrary we don't say if you don't do this we won't do this which happens like for example there are a lot of bad things that are happening in a lot of countries will we call it out?

1:29:02yeah for sure but we will not learn that this is a way like for example there was this country in africa that passed a really strict law against the lgbtq community and then u.s once again their press days that we will sanction you do i agree with the law no but do i tell them what to do no i mean let the country decide who gives you the authority to tell your country how to run their country similarly if there are some problems in your country you comment on that and you go to other countries and you do more so for RT we don't eat anything from India what you have to do what you have to do you do it but we will still show what's happening and we will show it in a way like either local press or international media fair fair one last statement if you want to make and talk about why should somebody watch you because this is a perception that has been missing from the Indian media space and it has been missing for a while now.

1:30:35I know that in India, the viewers, the readers, they are not very happy with what the local media is doing. They're not very happy with what the international press is doing. So that vacuum, it exists. And this is very arty, you know, it comes in. This Russian lensed things, this alternate, this different lensed thing that has been missing in the news narrative for such a long time. And now it's here and it's a perception. So if you like it, you watch it. You don't like it, you don't watch it. So we're not even asking anyone to watch, but giving it a chance won't be something that the viewers will regret.

1:31:21Perfect. Thank you so much for coming here and spending time with us. It was a pleasure hosting you. Thank you, Raj. Thank you. Done. We encourage use of ChatGPT, iCloud, everything. Okay. Gem and iCloud, sab kuro. It's a good way to do it. It's great you do it, just increase your productivity. But just don't give me, what we absolutely hate is, ki ChatGPT ne joo dia ho, print kar kar hame mat do. So I was shooting with a guest once. In fact, Dr. Shashi Tharoor. So I needed him to smile. So I asked my team, I said, guys, just crack a joke. I need him to smile. They're asking Chad GPT. How to make Chachi Thurur smile?

1:32:01Yes. And it was a good one. I mean, it was about vocabulary and some something something. See, it helps, right? It does help. It does help. Thank you so much for watching this episode until the end. Now, I have to do three things. First of all, subscribe to this channel. Because as much as you subscribe, we will get better and valuable guests for you. Number two, tell me in the comments. Tell us about how good and bad you are in this episode so that we can repeat those mistakes. And which guest you want to see in our podcast so that we can bring them and give you more value. And number 3, you have to share this episode with someone.

1:32:41Because one conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then keep figuring out.

1:32:55Thank you.