⁠Inside The IIT Race: JEE, Placements & Future Of Engineering | Vishwa Mohan | FO508 Raj Shamani

31:45How many hits will you come to? So, he said, he said, tell me how many will come. I said, he'll come to a week for 10 ,000, 12 ,000. And he told me, no, sometimes it even breaches 3-4 ,000 ,000 just for one job position itself. Aikki position, 3-4 ,000 ,000 apply it in a week. Now, I asked him, cross question, tell me, how many people you have rightly directly resect کر دیتے ہو اس نے counter مجھ سے پوچھا کہ تم گیس کر لو مجھے مجھے بولا کہ ٹھیک ہے 60 % 70 % they told me 97 % then I said that کی بوس کر کے آ رہا ہے is it a sadistic pleasure that you are taking but 97 کے بعد بھی تو کتنے بچ جائیں گے 97 % uprightly کیسے نکال دے رہا وہ کہے کی بوس وہ اس لیے نکال دے رہے بکو جنتا apply کر رہی ہے that is the same thing.

32:46People what do in today's date? And I also have a mistake when I was in college. I need a job. I have to make a resume. When I had to make a resume, I researched a lot. I watched videos on YouTube, I watched this lecture. I made a resume. I printed a PDF. And now, I'm going to go to that same resume. No matter what the company is, I'm not going to go to that resume. in the same position. They are saying that when I put data science in the position, most of the people are putting in the random data science position. They are doing Java, but they are saying that I am applying for the data science position itself.

33:23They are doing Python and they are doing data science position. So, 97-98 % of the people are irrelevant. The company's requirement is not going to match their resume with their resume. So, coming back to Walmart, there is a company whose domain is very specific. which is the first filter criteria that they match exactly or not. which normally 97 % will be out of the way. Now, this is 3%. Now, this is a huge number. It's not humanly possible. To hire, it feels very easy to find a way. For a company, it's a big cost. I was on LinkedIn. We were planning to hire a manager for our position. It's been a half a year, we have not been able to fill a position itself.

34:07You are going to interview you. You are going to interview you. You are going to interview you. You are not getting a good candidate. Because if you get a good candidate then the notice period set for 2 months. Until that came for 2 months, he negotiated with a company and he went on a higher package there. So it's very tough. Right? So it's a huge huge cost there. Now you have so many resumes. Now, see, it's not that companies are biased that I have to take ideas from IT or Stanford. It's more about the practicality. As a company, if I'm starting a startup founder, I know that I have a trade-off.

34:45One, I don't have much time to hire. And in today's stiff competition, there's no more. I want today. I want talent. I wanted today. That's number one. And the other thing, there are so many people, neither have resources, nor have I I have a fair chance to have all the time. So, our society has already put filter layers. Criteria, which kids have cracked and reached there. That allows me to ease out that thing. No problem with any company, XYZ College, hire no problem. But when a person goes to Mumbai, where they have selected crack, they have been sitting there. If they take 10 interviews, then two kids will be selected.

35:25But the same way, when they go to XYZ College, they take 10 ,000 interviews, and they don't get one person, not get there, then the next time will not go there. That's the whole philosophy and that's why, knowingly or unknowingly, no company will not tell you that boss, we only take from the IITs. But when it comes to the hiring manager and they have to take a tough call that boss, I don't want to take it. They will go and prefer because Finco feels like this kid has cracked it before, there is a filter already. And they end up doing it. So that's how it happens. So no company admits it. As a company, when I was in LinkedIn, I used to say that boss, we don't care which college that you come from.

35:59but ultimately when I have a pile of resumes and have to identify that I have time come and I have to take two kids interview then I fall down to the practicality you know and based on that I decided that's where the practicality comes you are saying that that children come from IIT or MIT it doesn't matter what will happen in that it's only because society has already been made that MIT and Stanford are top level then take it to the resume first. And then, if it is our criteria and demands, then the rest of the 10 ,000 children will come. And again, it seems to be a change. It seems to be a real life.

36:40If I go to the institute and I think that I am really talented, I think people will be interested to go there. If anyone has no idea. If I go to a hiring company, if I go to a private college, I go to the next level, I sit there. I eat food, you get all the food, so that you get to hire again. If you go to the IIT, you give a single room to a guest room, no one is there to cater to you. You don't get much benefit. You are just going because you are getting the right talent itself. There are no incentives. So that's the mindset, which is changing a little bit because of the technology, because of the first things we had to do manual.

37:24do not have to do much faster, much better still than you know the human itself. Plus the change must also be coming that the children are not from IT or MIT, they are from other places, online or something. And they have 2-3 companies, which have given them, then they will become a chance to they are looking at probably correct that only crack not only crack but other crack are good yes yes tell me one when you all work in big companies like Amazon Oracle PayPal all which tell me the top 3 skills which day 1 expect that you will come to and this gap doesn't know this institution I don't know I tell three companies of different type and I tell the three expectations I will tell you.

38:22Day 1, they don't teach in colleges. Correct. There are different expectations. You don't teach in colleges and you have to do in industry. First is a service based company. Mass recruiters, TCS, Repro, Cognizant. And then when I'm saying that I have a full respect for them. Because they are giving employment to the countries and no one else is. So I have a few respect for them. But what is their nature of business? That you have come on day 1, they assume that you have not taught anything in college. After going to go to 6 months, of oversamptly

39:00op So before training You move your own training You can go for a professional Client with 3D Hiring. On daycareулярno -due Longed duration Were well - inhaled When I was in 2011, I was surprised that the mass recruiters will come with all due respect. Infosys, Bipro TCS, they take a truck and then they take a factory and they don't interview them. And when they come, they didn't interview them. They didn't interview them. They didn't interview them. Because they knew that this child will come and they will leave them for a month. They are only interviewing six pointers. If you are not doing anything, you are not doing any, and you don't entertain others, you will take the chances of that you will be at least 2 years.

40:00That is the expectation from this kind. So, this is a fix. If you go to a service based company, then you have to be scripted. They have to be made a proper script. On day 1, you will have to do this training. When it is finished, you will have to do a client call. After you have to deploy. You will have to do a project. You will have to do a dream that you will send US, UK. and send them. Now this is also a good people think that people are going to go to the US in TCS Vibro. I will tell you life is very miserable. Why? A average Silicon Valley which is the top city in the US, it is about 120.

40:34San Francisco. In San Francisco. 100k, 120k average salary. 1 million. These are the people who actually crack and work in companies. And I am starting to say top level 300k, 400k, 500k, Netflix, Google are paying much higher than that. Now when these people go through, TCS, Wipro, InfoJet, they say they go to America, but they go to America in small towns. They get 60k, 70k, 80k. If you translate it, 70k gives you a salary of 56-60k. that you are living the American dream. You are going there, living a lavish life. But you have to take a small camera and save money. Your whole intention is that you have to eat a little bit.

41:30You have to stop traveling. You have to do all the clean and clean. I just save, save, save, save, save. Two to three years, come back and build a house, buy a car there itself. So, this 50-60 lakh job, you live in San Francisco or in small towns? you live in a small village so you don't get exposure to America you feel like you are living an American dream but you are living in a village you are living in a small village if you are trying to do that you will have not a single penny left and then you are living a life of a miser I am saying you are leaving your friends leaving your family leaving your country leaving your country where you are doing that you need a good life and you are going in a small town there In a village you are living in downtown.

42:14You are living in a small village. And then you are not enjoying life. You are living a life of a miser. What's the point of doing all of that stuff itself? What did you ask about LinkedIn? So I had 7 rounds in LinkedIn. In which the different rounds they wanted to check different things. Crazy. For example, first two rounds was all about I was going to the position. But they wanted to know how much I can do hands-on coding. So they asked me the different data structures, algorithm questions. all the tough no different varieties of the questions and that too in the domain for example LinkedIn graph name data structure because you do a lot of multi-level search for example as you look at your profile or you look at your profile you know that there is a second degree connection or third degree connection so there is a lot of connections that is being done underlying by a concept called as graph itself so I was really grilled graph when it's two rounds then they ask me do you design a system I was asking you many times you have to go on the floor and you don't know boss that you don't solve this problem there's no ready-made answer to it I haven't read it I haven't read it I haven't told it I haven't told it I haven't told it I haven't told it how do I solve it so for that they put you some unknown situation hypothetical situations how do you react in this how will you design it how will you solve it there are two or three rounds where you go and discuss that third they go deep down I think it's a good round for LinkedIn.

43:38Where they will ask you, boss, you tell yourself a strength. Or a use case that you have solved in your previous companies. Come well prepared, give me in advance and then I'll go over it and it'll grill you. I'll give you a proper piece of the code, my developers will sit with you, we'll try to understand. It does two purposes. One, it actually grills you from inside. You cannot fake in that. And the other thing, if you're sitting with them, then the team knows that I'll work with them. because culture fit is also equally important for these kind of companies. So they check culture fit too. And also, as a team, how you are working.

44:12And you have to work in real or not. And when these things happen, the final round comes. The manager sees that they are fit in a lot of my team or not. The good point of the companies like LinkedIn and Microsoft is their whole team has this direction before hiring new people. That the next person is coming, that should be better than at least three-fourth of the team. and that's how you improve the bar raiser right there's a bar raiser right you want that next candidate who is coming should be better who is coming and will learn something right like this podcast everybody should come and teach something new people should learn something I think that's what I like them the most so I think I've done interviews I think this process was going through but that was very enriching experience and that's how we know and how did you get into Amazon because I've heard Amazon hiring is one of the top similar I think you know, the companies like Amazon, LinkedIn, Google, Uber, and somebody raised their own bar.

45:07So when I was applying for Amazon, that was a little junior position that time. So normally what happens in tech? When you start with 0, 1, 2, the most focus is in coding rounds. Data structures are different. We'll ask you. And what are the big companies in these big companies? They don't matter. Like I said, if Walmart has to hire, then it needs Java developer. Then it needs Java developer. But if Amazon has to hire, or Google or Microsoft they never force you to get this technology they work on almost every damn tech and the tech keeps on changing so they don't want someone who comes with the flag that I am a Java developer and I will code in Java so they are looking for the people that I am a software developer I am working in Java today I will do it in Erlang I will do it in C++ I am open to learn that and do it so Google says that you can code in any language and code in the interview that's more important than I am forcing you that they have to interview in Java right so how do they test that yeah so they keep it very open they just said there's a generic computer science round typically so in Amazon I was in early years so I'll just complete it so there are different phases in which the companies judge you when you're in early career say like 0 to 3 years of experience the more focus will be in the coding rounds okay so they will give you a problem statement technical knowledge technical knowledge and problem they will give you a problem and you have to write a code in the language of your choice and this will cover most of the rounds 4 rounds, so 3 rounds will be your final 4 rounds and the manager round when you grow a little deeper then you will have 2 rounds of coding and then you will have 2 rounds in unknown situations so that you can decide that you can code and then he can be in the senior position that if a new problem comes up he is able to design it, scale it for the billions when you become a little senior then you will have 1 round coding and you might not be writing code everyday but then you have to take those business decisions those tech decisions to scale it and that's where your system design comes up so when I was in Amazon interviewing I was in those initial rounds when my side was 4 round coding and that's one of the toughest questions that you can figure it out and that's why I say that when you prepare don't find shortcuts when I was preparing for IT I was told a PhD teacher that I was very good.

47:26When you are giving the exam exam, you will close your room. Make sure that it is one of the hardest situations. If you are coming to the exam, because you don't know that you are giving the exam, the day you will be falling out of the room. And your exam is bad because you are always comfortable in a chair sitting on a seat. So make sure you are sitting on an uncomfortable situation. Make sure that the room's ambience is bad, so that you are tuned to. and if you are going to be 9-12 then you also give 9-12 k so that your body is also tuned for it same thing is here as well if Amazon you have to clear your interview if you have to clear your interview to solve one question sitting in the house is a very easy thing I am taking a question and I am sitting in my room and I am chilling and if I have to write my brain will solve it 200 % but the same way if I am sitting in the interview let's say that Raj you are from Facebook and I'm sitting here and you throw me a question this time when 4 things are in my mind it won't happen or it won't happen if I'm wrong then my chance will be done it's in front of me I'm writing one line and I'm feeling that pressure and it's a very tough situation Amazon is a big company I cannot afford to lose it lifetime opportunity believe it so same problem which I would crack much easily when I'm sitting in my house I am going to crack this problem now.

48:50And for that I have to be prepared for that kind of situation. Which cannot happen if I am only doing an online course. Which cannot happen if I am doing all things in comfort. And that's the difficulty. The problem is that if Amazon is hiring someone, they will interview 500 people for that. And after that they will go to software developers. They will pay for it, no doubt. But then these people deserve it because they have to crack. So that's how, you know. So my whole round was 4 rounds fully grilled. Where they had all new questions that I've never seen. But I was fortunate enough that I worked hard.

49:25I have cracked that code of critic. Cracking those questions in the real time and I was able to do it. Damn interesting. But tell me if you feel a degree broken. College system, education is broken. It's done. Right? Why do you attach yourself to yourself with degrees? with the same participation you have the same broken system strong point there are two things when there is a change the change has to happen gradually for example if you have a drug addict you suddenly cannot say that he will die because the body will not react to it today my whole education system or the outcome everything is connected B.Tech is not only about the marks B.Tech you are doing so that society and industry you accept right what B.Tech does is graduate and after graduation there are also options India if I talk about higher degrees if I have to go to M.Tech PhD then out.

50:40So, the minimum credit, credibility needs. Today needs it. No one, MIT will not entertain anyone for doing M-Tech if he has not done the graduation. Just saying that boss have the best coder of the world. They will not entertain. Companies are not ready. They will come to a talk and say, boss, I don't have a difference. If a child is talented, we will take it. But their philosophy, policies already have been made. We only take, we take. So, that will not be clear in the checkbox. Which will take time. We are heading to us, but it will take time. children go to UPC UPC say graduation you have a degree but degree it will not happen right so I am also a big proponent of the skilling I say skilling degree will take you to the door but skilling will only open that door itself but for that door you still need to have the degree in the country so the solution is not that boss we just say crap crap crap and replace it see everything cannot be replaced we are a country of billions it's an entire system and not everything that our government and UDC is doing, everything is doing, no lot of strong things are there, right?

51:45Unfortunately, some people have made this as a model because when you say something controversial in the market, it picks. MBA will not be able to pick from it. If you say that you can eat the diabetes people can eat sugar, that becomes a catchy word because people want to hear that. They want to eat cheese. It looks very easy for the people. People see the easy solution that becomes very catchy. But we have to be practical. We cannot be just preachy preachy. See the system of four years also brings a lot of discipline. See, there is no problem in four years. No problem in degree. The problem is that how it is told in four years.

52:30how you are taught in 4 years. If you want to learn depth in depth, it will not happen in 6 months. You can learn AI in 6 months, but that is a very reactive solution. People are doing this in the 3rd year. You are not going to work in 3 years. You are not going to work in college. You are joining an online course. You will learn AI, data science. That is a reactive solution. He has identified a gap that today companies are asking AI. You will learn this skill, you will crack the job. So that happens there. But if you want to solve some foundational problem. What you have to work in the Google environment.

53:05To solve a new problem. To make a new LLM. To challenge. LLM is very compute intensive. We just understand. Why don't we go and challenge it? You can also make a new LLM. I use a new hardware. I'll go and start using it. Someone has to challenge it. So for that you have to go in depth. And for that the student needs time. So, there is no problem in the degree. But what is executed, it has its challenges. So, we wanted to not take shortcuts. We will not make a floor in a tech park. We will not say that you will take a degree online. And you will give a degree on BAC. And now you will sell a dream.

53:43Because in today's day, it is very easy to sell a dream. Look, to write a good website is very easy. You take a good marketing person. Today Claudia is helping her.

54:01I will tell you also one thing very controversial but because I have been in the system for a very long time. I have been very good at taking a name in the college. It's one of the biggest universities in the country right now. when they go to the training and placement, when they go to college, they go to their pocket, and they go to two or three times, they go to five or six gold coins. And they go to the mass recruited companies, and if they don't have a knowledge of HR, they go to two gold coins and put it in pocket. They told me that they were training for their companies, and they asked me, what are you doing?

54:40They know that they are the head. I asked you to buy gold coins for money. And as someone goes in a pocket, he calls them to the same. And then we call them to hire them. So at this time, universities are paying those gold coins directly into the pockets. They started to get out of Diwali. All the talent managers. These are great universities. Like doctors, mass recruiters. sorry doctors medical representatives so khubh sare gifts lye ke aate hai doctors ka trip hota hai the same nexus is running in the country especially the mass recruiters joh ak college jahke sowso loogos ko thate hai in sare ke joh recruitment heads hai HR's hai inke liye pura package buna hoa hai there is a big university johne sare HR's ko bula ke cricket comprehensive kara hai research on the google you will figure it out or sab ko ak iphone dhiya tha jab woh campus mein aate hai to unka lavish treatment hota hai joh bhi unko chahiye right joh universities They have money, they call them through their own campus.

55:44As they have the opportunity to give their whole team their pocket of gold coins in India, in the top cities like Bangalore, Pune, all the tech companies they send. And they start putting those gold coins into the pocket of these people and start building those relationships. I was in one of the biggest university in south. They called me to talk about the AI. I was in the final year engineering session. I was asking myself to go to the literature and ask me, who are you in the final year in computer science? I said, that's 10 ,000. Only computer science. I said, okay. How many people did job?

56:17Half the people couldn't raise hands. I said, who are you in the job? Who is it? Bipro TCS Cognizant. I said, package 3.2. 2011, when I passed out, I told you, there was a joke that I took a truck, I got to get the factory, package 3.2. 2011 2016 I was talking about a senior from my college He was giving me the info for 2006 He was giving me 3.2 package I don't have a permanent 30-year-old And it was in 2006 2026 20 years ago And the package has not improved So today's date If a child goes to college And they all go to the posters Because that's what is flashing It's the age of social media You can send ads You can send consultant You can send a child You can send a child There are 10 ,000 kids If you have a child legit진 crore face placement

57:10And I'm talking about the city that is full of nausea and all. So I'm saying that this is a false information in this country. And when it's our ecosystem in this way. So that's the tough situation. I want to know that people know what I want. I'm also leveraging this medium to talk about those things. At least, look, inform decision to learn. Don't go for this flash. You mean, the college you're saying that you're doing a package. Then you'll also enjoy it. Because... you will learn anything not that the whole placement team was the same that 2-4 kids attract 2-4 kids find out corporate make a connection and give them results the rest of the kids are the someone who are just paying the fees for these private colleges advertise that our 50 ,000 ,000 job and the company name and companies like Microsoft Amazon then it's legitimate so for example it's not that there are no good companies I'll take for example Thapar.

58:10Thapar is a private college, very good college. Right. In fact, even at the SRM, typically if I look around, even at the VIT for that, that companies who are doing it, see, when you have a pool of 10 ,000 people, right? Definitely there will be people who are smart. You want to be doing 20 ,000 ,000 kids in engineering. 2 ,000 kids are going to be able to go to computer science, IIT. Other kids are not smart. They are talented folks. Every year from the non-IIT college also, very good coders are coming out. Exactly. So, children are smart. I'm telling you, if you groom them in a good way, you'll do more work on them.

58:4230 % of time they're doing engineering, doing physics, chemistry, you focus on them on that. You make a lot of models. For example, you go to any college. We are in the age of Gen AI. We're talking about the LLMs. People are still teaching them the data science which was taught like five years ago. You teach them from machine learning case. That is, you learn the same. But tease them what is going to be relevant four years down the line which no one is focusing around. Tell me which three jobs are based on what you just said. Which three jobs exist in the next two-three years? I will precise this answer because otherwise it becomes very wide.

59:23Based on the big engineers are coming out. They will not be able to do jobs in three years. This particular. I think that the service based jobs are operational and mundane. You have to keep bookkeeping, you have to maintain records, you have to write a little content about this. I think that all these things are in today's date, cloud and others are doing well and that will totally go away. The other thing is that the initial level of jobs, for mass recruiters in factories were taken in trucks where you have to write simple code simple APIs and work is done I think that's also going to get depleted that's number two and the third thing I think is that if you don't have to learn in your own attitude you think that I've learned something and that's going to my whole life I'm going to crack it if you don't have to learn then I think again you are obsolete you will be fired and you will know more So the approach now should be I have to be flexible.

1:00:28I am open to the change. Except that change is the only constant. If you go through this attitude then you'll survive. What I said to you, first of all, I was to crack. And the other was to switch. And after the EMI, I think we change these three. We try to go into depth. We try to specialise. and then we have to replace the switch and then we have to build something instead of just switching and switching and if you replace the EMI with a compound then I think that's what is needed so we need to write a new script as a society we have a habit of script and I think that's the time now to talk about the future script so that the generation is ready for AI age tell me three jobs which are not today and you think it will become and will be very high paying in the next two years definitely we are talking about the top 3 % who will be who will be actually being architects who will be who will be new foundational models who will be talking about LLM I have a paper on LCM large concept model so this needs to be which will be the next step that will be the insanely paid people that's one space that I see

1:01:48I'm very bullish about this quantum computing because the way how the computer science is working today that's gonna change completely the whole space of computing will disrupt everything we are writing today will not be safe in quantum age our password will not be safe everything has to be rewritten in the quantum world which I think is going to be coming in 3-4 years and here is another building and I am very amazed I thought that no one could work in India I went to one of the start-up experts and already many companies who already started working in quantum so if there are things in quantum and developing skills I feel this is a huge opportunity in computer science cage and the third thing I think is the future is all about cross collaborations when engineering started and I was taking admission there were well defined engineering branches computer science, civil, mechanical were one of the branches.

1:02:42Then people thought that many people are crazy about computer science. Everyone needs computer science. So what did private colleges have done? Some of the computer science started to put a chill-cut. Electrical with computer science, electronics with computer science, mechanical with computer science, computer science 5 variations. Computer science with AI, computer science with data science, computer science with full-stack development, whatever variations possible possible. This is how it started. Now lately what has happened? AI has come. AI is the new buzzword. I am going to shopping mall and I see that AI is in the fridge.

1:03:14AC is in the air. You can talk about AI enabled mic so that you can fix the voice. I was just looking at an ad. I was in the US and I had an ad that AI enabled mic. Whatever I was saying, I was making a hard-care transcript. I think AI has got a good time. You have to sprinkle a good time. If you have to do a good sound, you have to sound crazy. or in the podcast or in the off session, you say AI. There are meetings, all businessmen, they have nothing to do with the tech. But every two of us that they use, they use AI who are there. Right? So AI has become a new company. And because of this, now there's something which is like, there's some reality and substance to also that AI is here to stay.

1:03:58Right? AI is not going to be able to know. So in the coming days, how I see that, things will be very much interlinked. Right? If you are doing any of this, if you are mechanical then you will be involved in AI electrical then you will be involved in this and interdisciplinary things we will be involved in a lot of things and the beautiful thing about the computer science is that almost every industry they need AI people they need the computer science people I tell you that when a new company starts, 4 software engineers go to the house we need to make a website, mobile app, and smart like they said that first civil engineering and mechanical engineers are the ever grand branches because if it's human, it will be roads and if it's human, it will be buildings construct in this way, in the current age of today if there is any company manufacturing, marketing company any company you take, they have to have a digital presence, smart presence and for that, at least 3-4 people will go to the house the beautiful thing about the computer and AI and the technology is that you can go and fit yourself in anything you go to space in deep research in life sciences I think it will have a lot of interdisciplinary things is going to come in the coming years to happen which is not there today so anything which is going to be timeless or in the world of exploration going deep in that field with AI is going to be a relevant job yeah see you've been in Amazon you've been in LinkedIn you've been in multiple large companies right large companies you will see many cycles where people get laid off and fire in the world of automation and these big companies every time every 2-3 years they get automation and kill like Amazon robots and they have left a lot and then they have left a lot and they have automation right what have you seen that when large companies automation comes which people are fired and which people are living which specific type of engineers will survive in automation because if 10 ,000 people have fired from 10 ,000 people and 5 ,000 people will now be engineers I have to say diplomatically answer I have a hard fact map that normally how to decide how to fire I will take a specific example also I will talk about how to fire and I will tell you what impact the company is I will not only do it for the company because the company will be a lot of damage when they do the firing so if a company has to fire and decide to fire then the un-diplomatic answer because the company doesn't answer it is that it identifies which is the most important time in the company and a normal understanding that the IT sector is less than the day the flexibility is less than the day it will not be able to change that's a generic understanding hard part of the IT sector is unlike other institute or other sector if you have a mechanical or a civil then as you age with experience people start valuing you you will get a salary you will get a demand you will get a expertise you will learn on the job unfortunately in the IT sector it is not true look at the IT sector I started doing it so I came in IT sector with a dream that it will be sexy I will go with a MacBook I will sit in the EC and I will be traveling the entire world and that's what I thought and that's how I started my career in the IT itself but when i got into this i realized that the grass is not that greener right you can take a macbook and sit but you have a call at 2am that the code is broken and you have to fix it and there is no excuse you have to take the office and take the world and the world is going to be and the hardest part of it is that when you are starting you have a lot of jobs but this is a pyramid like you are on top if you are not upskill कर रहे हो अब हर दिन के साथ ये chances कि आपको lay off वर दिया वो बढ़ता चला जाता है even today मैं आज भी हर दिन आदे गंटे एक गंटे नए concept को पढ़ने के कोशिस करता हूँ because I live with the fear कि आज का बचा जो college में technically machine learning से ही चालू करता है वो मुझे can replace it.

1:08:12Especially in this age of I. And if I don't uplift myself because I carry a baggage of high salary. I carry a baggage of that age where I am not smart as I am as a 19, 20, or 22. I am in an age where I am doing it from the beginning of my age and I didn't do it. and we have to be practical right and if i don't do it they will not take you know this it field you have programming language you have software or software developer they will not think twice before they fire you now google has fired a lot of senior engineers they wrote post on linkedin that i have given this company for 12 years and the company didn't even think that they informed me that they don't fire no doubt anytime they tell me boss i have given this life and they have not even informed me that we are buying I was just told you have to just submit the laptop and you cannot come back to your desk also that's how the hard firing is I was on paypal every year paypal they said that in February there will be firing and no one knows that the firing is going to happen they have this that every year those who are not doing or not doing they will go and fire it out and every year it was the fact that in February people will fire

1:09:38and it's not based on the talent it's not based on the talent it's based on that the company seems to be working with no new work or he is more senior or more flexible. What is the problem? For two months productivity is at the lowest. Because as a human, see, now this is a good thing. Walking for a company, don't work with heart and mind. See, when you are working company, we are all humans. My daughter, my baby, my house, my expenses. Right? I am doing a job so that I can sustain it. If I don't know that in the next two months, I will be a job or not. How can I expect you to give 200 %? How can I even expect you to give 100 %?

1:10:22So when I know that after two months, someone will be able to get us. All of us will be preparing hard. I will be 30 % job or 50 % interview. The reason why companies like Google, which started to fire, was very low in Google. And the other companies were getting attention. Because when Google was running, it was like this is the best option that I have. Now, it's the whole focus on Google. It's not doing any other job. But when the child is working on TCS, Walmart is working on it. It's the whole time coding and it's the whole time that it's going to be practice at home that after 6 months, Google has to be out.

1:10:58So, how can it give 100 %? And companies don't get better at this point. Are you getting my point? So, that's the challenge. So, PayPal was running. I remember now that we knew that yesterday we are going to be fired. And how did we know that? One day before, some bodyguards came. Okay, right? Firing. After firing, there was an ambulance under our campus. Let's say there's some untoward situation happened. There's someone to. So that was signal that today we are going to be firing. Because our bodyguards are seeing the campus under the campus. Ambulance. Ambulance is seeing the ambulance. And one day before, there was a girl.

1:11:35they thought that they knew all the information they knew all the information they knew all the information and we used to do all the permutation combination we figured it out who will be fired next day we are all in office and they are not seeing it and we realized that he is fired and we were not realizing that and that's how it used to happen right so the point that I'm trying to tell you why are the body guards? I didn't get it so like the big companies Firing policy is what happens when you fired You are not even allowed to come back to your desk So there is no doubt Because this is all of a sudden Firing means that it is not based on performance And performance is what you know You are not performing You will take a pip and take a break Firing fund is not based on just the performance itself So no idea for the person I am dying at night I am writing code at night I am coming to the morning and I am telling you that you will take the company.

1:12:31I cannot accept this. See, firing is very common, but when it is on yourself, you cannot accept that firing because there is a feeling of failure. Boss, why me? And there is a very high chance there is an emotional breakdown for that candidate to happen. They just want to play around, they want to fake things, they want to play around. And that's the reason why they know this. So normally people, what happens is that as people have to do that, HR has blocked all the rooms, HR has called that person. As you know, there's a call. You know that I'm gone. HR will talk there and he'll tell you that you don't even know.

1:13:04There's a bodyguard will come. He will be told that whatever you can do, take him and take him. And he will be taken down. Why didn't he allow him to go back? Because then I don't know what he will say to the rest of the people. How they will react. If they go inside and go inside the system, they'll know if they're fired. So maybe they will go and make some changes in the code. That's a lot of risk. Where I feel it's very inhuman. I think when that lady of the Google wrote this i i related it that i have seen it that i have seen it you know you know company 12 years it's huge when my father company you know retired and i know that a band was 12 years ago and they had a retirement speech and people were crying and they were crying and the person who has been working like with any other company you can see how much the company has impacted me one thing because we have talked about and all of us this is something else and firing right if there is a student watching right or there is a student who is going to be working or already there is a professional who is in the job right and maybe there is a danger that my job can go they have to test that is ready to be in the AI world or not how would how would they audit if there is a self audit if there is a test what question they should ask like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and give them marks on that and then realize that brother this is a simple it must test in this date if you are already a software professional before I am teaching I am teaching if you are already a software professional and you are working for 4-5 years right if you have to make the application or code for 6 months how much time it was and today to write the code and make it if you have to make it more than 1 tenth of time then you are not fit for the today's world because there are so many automations in almost all companies where you are ID then you are not AI ready and then you are gonna sell it out from the system itself I am again repeating if you think about the software it was 10 days if you are not able to do it on the date of today then you are not fit for the today's world because that's how advanced we have become There are all coding tools and tools.

1:15:24This is a basic litmus test which every professional will look into their eyes. And if you are a final year's engineering student, and if you don't know how to design the system, if you are a final year's student, if you have not made an end-to-end application, you are just preparing the subjects, if you ask questions in DBA, if you ask questions in DBA, if the internet will ask you, you will answer them. But if you get these things, if you don't develop one application now, and if you don't leverage AI, then you forget that you don't hire any company. So you need to make an application, and it is properly deployed.

1:16:08You can show off that this is my portfolio, this is GitHub code, and this is the way it works. That's the basic. If you don't do this, I don't think anybody is going to hire them. And for non-software? for non-software? Again, those who are already working, those who are professionals, they are in any field. For example, they are a data analyst. They are a content writer. They are making PPT's. They are in operations. If the things they were doing before, like the PPT's, it took one day time to make it a day, or if it is operational, it took all the teams to align it, and the KRAs and the KRAs managed to manage 2 days.

1:16:50If he doesn't automate it from AI, now he has two team members who are helping to collect data and automate it. If he doesn't write the right prompt to the AI, he doesn't have to identify it. These are specific tools. It's just for chat GPT. What are 90 % of people doing? Every thing is just one solution. which is chat gpt. If you want to make ppt, then you are using chat gpt. If you want to make excel analyze, then you are using chat gpt. If you want to write code, then you are using chat gpt. You want to ask how to make girlfriend, then you are using chat gpt. So if you don't move beyond gpt, then again you are in a danger.

1:17:28Because for each thing, there are specialized tools available today. If you have to make ppt, there is gamma. And like that, for every detail, there are specialized tools. So this is for the professionals. And again, who are in the college right now, same thing happens right people are expecting the all-rounders people are expecting that if you don't go into CS role then how can you be a generalist? Today a term comes from generalist every company is a generalist hire, they want to be like this and everything comes to the person who wants to say something to do in social media and do in social media they say that I want to do a podcast with Raj, connect my connection, they say something and then call a connection and then set the podcast, I say that I am going to go to an event I'm going to talk to them.

1:18:10This kind of generalist. Generalist or founder of his EIA. So these roles are coming up. Which means that you are street smart. You are leveraging AI. You are not talking the language of a student. You are talking the language of the professionals. So expectation has been a lot. So if you behave like a child. You behave like a college professional. You will give this reason. I can't do that because I don't have experience. I didn't do it. I think that's the sift that you need. And for it, the role of internships are very important. So you gone are the days that you're waiting for 3 years. And for the semester break, you'll get out of the internship.

1:18:49I think it's fully late. You're starting from the first year, friends. And the more you have that exposure, the more you have that exposure, I think that will help you get better to that stage where people are screening you. See, we have painted brutal reality of today's. world. Yeah. And I love it. Yeah. That it's sad. It's hard. But I love the fact that you have brutally honestly painted on everyone. And I think it's a good position for everybody to start. Nobody should feel fear because if you don't know, there's a lot of fear. Right. If you don't know, it's a good news. Then here how we start.

1:19:30Right. Now let's talk about people. Those students are watching the parents. Now you are watching. Yeah. How do you solve it today? What are you doing? You are doing such a way that people's career will become bulletproof. What are you doing? You are doing in the Upgrad School of Technology. What are you doing? Because the way you painted these problems, you are very passionate about it. You are doing a lot of problems. You are thinking deeply. You are happy to do a lot of things. Right? There can be two outcomes. completely from this. One can be either just that you can do problem and you don't have any solution.

1:20:13And second, you're trying to try something based on your experience, based on the brutal reality and based on what you're doing. Combining all three of these. Tell me, if someone is listening, then how will their career be bulletproof? And I'm specifically talking about people who are going to college. Correct. Because they'll go outside until they're going to college. traditional way when you have to go to India in India there are 4 ,000 private institutes where you can go to engineering and all private and we have already talked about it so if you have 10th not good then you have options 12th if you have good if you have good then you have 4 years engineering and then it will happen when you are in engineering then you have a baby sona and a child you have to leave a house and leave a college from home but in 4 years something weird happens that you have to be a adult You become adult.

1:21:04And you have a responsibility for your whole family. You have a responsibility for your older children. If you retire, you have a responsibility for your father. And your expectation is huge. Huge responsibility on a middle class Indian right now. And after 4 years of engineering, if you have no job. If you have 10 ,000 kids in the South, you have an admission in computer science. And you have no job in 50 % of your 50 % or if you have no job, then it's 18 ,000-20 ,000. Then your career is also wrong. as a system also that we have failed. Yeah. There's nothing in between the top college or private institutes.

1:21:37So in this philosophy, I started that new age college. Which is now pretty good. And a lot of people, they identify the problem, they started it. Since it is the second string, I'm trying to rebuild it. I identified there were a few problems in those models also. The few models in that, we're saying that we're going to learn what we need for industry. You should train for your job. But the focus is only on the job, job, jobs. That's one. And second, that's why you took a shortcut. That you will take a online degree. You will take a degree from XYZ. So I'm taking a shortcut. I'm just selling the team that it's just skilling, skilling.

1:22:16But no, it's not skilling. It might not be very fancy. It's not really easy. But degree is equally important. It sounds boring. But not everything is a crash course. not everything is an instant gratification that you get in the Instagram deals life may success is a boring effort you have to work your podcast is so successful because you are working at night if you start to take it casually now I am very habituated and I will come on the go I will chill tomorrow it will start crashing down so any hard success that you do any person that you go and see it's a boring thing if you learn more then you have to work right so that's a hard reality right so we didn't wanted to do any kind of you know sort cuts we wanted to be in the system because from the system to take a different direction we'll come to that but india is not prepared for it so we wanted a solid solution for the students so we wanted to take a system where kids get a proper ugc recognized degree proper bte so that they have options open tomorrow they want to do upsc He wants to do something, he wants to do something.

1:23:22He wants to do something. He wants to go to work in a job. He should have that B.Tech degree. The second challenge I saw is that when you are doing new age and to do some sorts of sorts, because you have a investor a new age college most of the new age college are all investor backed. Do you get money? I think I am a little deviated but I think it is a very important point. And again it is very brutal. I don't know after this hearing is many of the VCs might not entertain me in their rooms. In India, a challenge is that whenever you go and pitch an idea to them, be it a school, be it an institute, they always ask this one question.

1:24:00That I'm going to put a lot of money after 3 years, what will 3x happen? 5x happen? He's only damn interested in that. Nothing that would impact. They might put a PR that talks about that we are impacting the education system of the country itself. But in the boardroom, the closed room, when you're sitting and talking maths, they ask that what I have put in money will be 3x or 5x will be a value of money and in order to optimize both of these new age colleges because they are backed by the VCs and funds that I put in they need to multiply them they need to show them the glamourous story that story I said before that how doctors are trained in the hospitals I want to train them in the IT park but doctors are trained in hospitals it is a campus too just hospital hospital not just hospital they have a life too and when you say that I will train them on the IT campus you have to take their whole life and now you are doing it on campus the child is getting out of coaching 4 years of engineering it's not only things which is taught in the class it's the entire experience you do a fest you do coffee shops around you do a friend you dance you go to the hospital, you have a full experience when 360D improves.

1:25:14We wanted to give all this to our students. So we wanted a complete compliance system. UGC regulated, which is within the system. Which gives a proper B.Tech course. And give a proper university life. So whatever things are within the university, everything is bad in our country. We cannot keep up with all of the people. There are a lot of beautiful things. We have beautiful infrastructures. So we identified three cities. Bangalore, Pune, Hyderabad, which is a tech hub. we have talked about a great university we identified those campuses and we identified how we follow the rules we give the best experience to the students so we are sorted on the degree part and we identified what we can do now so that we don't have the wrong decision we will not do the same thing we will not change the curriculum because new education policy which is the university that allows that you can do many changes and you can take many flexibilities so we try to add the industry practice what is in Silicon Valley we are trying to bring the Silicon Valley style learning Silicon Valley style learning it's more of like a practitioner-led training you don't just say that semester exam you say that you say that you say that you say that I have a github profile repo for the company.

1:26:35There are companies that come and they meet you. We are just in a talk with MongoDB right now. I will study no SQL but I don't want to study it. I think I'm tied up with MongoDB so that MongoDB can tell us what are the latest. So that students are taught in the first way possible. If I'm studying blockchain then I don't want to study blockchain. I think that the most important company in India is on campus. I am here in the office. This is my problem statement. This is my problem statement. And that I want to do for everything else. Through this podcast I am also talking to these companies. You will hire a lot of MOUs in a college.

1:27:14And again it is undiplomatic. All universities sign with a MOU sign with industry. And they sign and photo ops. No company is not coming to campus. No information exchange is not happening. I want to break it. I don't want to do photo ops. But if I am doing partnership with any company, I will ask them, boss, what problem you are doing, my students should do it. If I am studying the operating system in the morning, I want to make an agentic OS if they are making this startup, they should facilitate those problem statement to my students. That's when the change will happen. So I want to bring that Silicon Valley style learning to my students.

1:27:55That's the first differentiator. right another is envision that a child goes to a conventional university including IITs how will it go to the child will buy a bag with the child will buy a drafter will buy a parent will buy a book and a book a book a book and come and come to my home they don't have to buy any books they go challenge in reading from the books in the tech is that first a technology comes to that technology some people learn that technology it takes 6 months, 1 year then they write it then they go into printing when they come to print they get obsolete so if you are reading from the tech especially in 2026 then you are nowhere boss so the student doesn't have to read from the books my child is a computer engineer he is a AI engineering I don't do anything for copy pen.

1:28:56I don't say anything about pen. Day one we give them the macbook pro. And we make them write the code from day one itself. No paper style learning, no paper style teaching. Everything has to be the code first. If I am studying C, Python, I will study on a platform where he will code. I am saying that you write code and write 4 lines. And I am marking step-wise. marking that if I have two line codes written then it's the answer is correct. That's not how it works. So that's how it differs. The whole experience of learning will be different in the studies here. There's a first differentiator. Another example I had given you.

1:29:33If I take an example of any top college they might have the great professors and I have a huge respect for them. But what they have learnt and what they have done, they can help students that they have a good number in the semester. They can help students that they have a good researcher. but it has not written a line of code in industry. It is not prepared for the jobs of today's date. The idea is that if you don't want to go on Mount Everest yourself, how can you train someone to go there? If you don't want to go on yourself, it's very tough to tease them, especially in today's world. So here we have tried to do a mix and match of both.

1:30:09It's not good for professors. So we leverage the professors of the universities because they bring the value, they bring the experience. but they have learned it the hard way they have seen the process so we bring that plus we bring the people from the industry we hire people from large companies they come in the classroom they teach everything and not like a shortcut that doesn't work there are many new ways systems which will take Apple's CEO and take it and take it and take it they come in the masterclass they are talking about their own they are talking about their own I have done this, I have done that.

1:30:47The child doesn't learn anything. There's no benefit of bringing people for the masterclass, I'm telling you. The child feels good once, two times, your social media is looking good. But every time you bring someone for a masterclass, half of the time goes in him telling his story, that I have done this, I have done that. How many times that child will listen to that child? Trust me, all these colleges, children don't want to attend 4 sessions. Because I have this first-hand experience. I have said, it's done, I have got a lot of knowledge. I don't want to come in that classroom. And you can call a child and take a child because it's a bad thing.

1:31:16Photo ops will not go in social media. So there are master classes in our own place. That also we will do because we have to do photo ops. But we will study in the classroom. The teacher will say hi on day 1, that will also say buy. If I have to study full stack, I will call a person from industry which is actually making full stack applications. If I am going to study blockchain, I will actually work on blockchain so that you are taught. So that's the second differentiator. the third differentiator that I am talking about is that outcome most of the companies most of the companies most of the universities they are only talking about one outcome which is the high jobs jobs is a buzzword you are doing online course if you have not done job then no one is buying and unfortunately when you go to extreme then you have to do guarantee word one of my medium that if any company or any online course if you are using guarantee word that I am giving a job guarantee.

1:32:11So friends, don't take admission to that. Because there is no guarantee in this thing. And then, on the top of it, because we have that ecosystem, when we are doing that because we are doing that training for 25 years, we are doing that we will not be finished in 4 years. If you, after 10 years of college, if you are missing your job and you are looking for it, since we have that ecosystem, I will give you the lifetime career assistance. In the whole life, I will give you the lifetime career assistance if you're the part of the grad school of tech. That's first tangible outcome. Another tangible outcome because of the scenarios that we are into it.

1:32:48Today, everyone wants to do a job and if they want to do it, they won't be a job. And everyone is different. You're all going to get in the middle and you'll say job, job, job is not possible. So we said that we are going to be the only engineering program or only computer science teaching program who will also teach students how to make a startup. We want to build all of the startups. So we are saying that we want to build that culture of startup. The tech based startup, the builder approach. So we are teaching tech and you are also telling business sense. Semester 1, semester 2. For other colleges, there is a check box activity.

1:33:25The incubation center opened, the e-cell opened, a big person came and inaugurated. We will have those things because we have the university ecosystem. But we will teach you every day, every semester. You will be taught semester by semester. 7 semester long programs and in this I have someone which again no one has which is Mr. Ronnie Skruvala the co-founder of Upgrad so he is also very passionate about the startup he was in the shark tank also last time so he has said that boss I want to personally mentor these kind of special kids and if they have the idea if they have the team if they have a company then in which lens I see the people outside who want to pitch me I want to see them with the same lens and for them I need the amount of seed funding $5 ,000,$50 ,000 I will do it myself.

1:34:08I have my investment firm. Plus we will also facilitate the VCs which are in their circle, which are in their circle, to bring in the house and help these students do the start-up. So we want to invest in these people who make a tech-based start-up. Tell me one thing, which is, you know, we spoke a lot about so many things. In India, what is wrong? What is wrong? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. there's one thing which which we have to agree that Indian minds globally value is increasing before it was but it was not so as it was today today our minds are much more valued if you talk about you talked about so much about Google is today as an Indian mind which is actually running the show there true 100 % we talked about how much about Microsoft is open 100 % is again so Indians are killing it tell me one thing what is our thinking stack or what is something what is Indian thinking or Indian mindset what is the framework that all around the world even America, China everybody is now valuing they are copying India there has to be something what is it like I think that the Saudi countries where they have made its venture capital.

1:35:37In India's day, which is the biggest resource of India, which is the human resource, because we are the country of billions, our venture capital is humans. And because there are so many permutation combinations, which are so many struggles that come out of the world, struggle of the local India, the struggle of all the competition that comes in, the struggle of cracking it, everything, the struggle of top 2000 children, if I want to come to IT. So they have already seen many competitive steps, dhek chuka insane competition dhek chuka ii aapko example dhu gaur india me agar kisi ko google ka interview crack karna hai uske liye to usko itni chizai ane chahi agar usko u.s.

1:36:11me google crack karna hai to usko one fourth agar usko knowledge to usko ho jata hai because there is no competition chabki wo silken valley hai ye bangalore hai bangalore me alchkate me google karekna is much much tougher than if you have to crack a google interview in the u.s. itself right to johu ye insane competition hai na mushye lagta hai yeh humare leigh bada advantage da kama karta hai dousra hum bare flexible hai I'll tell you a mindset again very frank when I was working in the US for some days so the US counterparts Americans they will come at 9am and they will go at 6am and at 6am they will not give a damn unless until something is gone they will not receive the call because my life, my rules after sex you cannot call me now Indians it has a little positive and negative aspects Because that's how we will thrive.

1:37:01There is competition. How will we do it? If we keep holding, then we will not be able to do it. Nobody asked us that we still walk the line in the night. And that has a reason for it. Because we want to have that presence. So our struggle at this time, we are coming from a competitive environment. We are mentally strong that we are mentally strong. When I already in India, if I can get out of the top 2 ,000 kids in India, then there is no competition in the US. There are 15 million engineers every year. There are 2 million people. and if I reached the US, I learned the experience that I have learned, it's very easy for me to go and...

1:37:34So you can see most of the people who move to headquarters here. Every company, PayPal, LinkedIn, Microsoft, Google, they have a center here, and they have a main center in headquarters. At today's rate, with all due respect, the most difficult work is, the people who don't want to do anything, they don't want to do anything. They have outsource. कर दिया रहाते है, सारे companies आई है, मैंने सारे companies में काम कर रहा है PayPal, LinkedIn इन सारे companies में जो भी important काम से जिससे business grow करेगी, जिससे maximum revenue impact होगा, that will happen in HQ, जितने भी outsourcing वाले काम है service वेले काम है, mundane काम है, जिसको साथ कोई interesting role नहीं है वो सारी चीज़े India offices drive so the person moved here and he is working in HQ so he has already seen smart and there are people who are and he is working and that's when he starts growing sequentially if he is in the sea suit right now and that's why they are killing everywhere in the company nice one last thing fill in the blank yeah in one statement or a word man India will grow when dash I think we should change that mentality we are chasing this we are starting with crack then we are switch and then EMI change that boss crack in terms of why you have to go in depth switch in terms of you try to build and in terms of EMI if we teach compounding If we write these three new scripts, if we write Indian society, Indian parents, our system, if we create a new script, the script is further in this new era, so that after layoff people need to suicide.

1:39:28So that people know how to modify AI in age, so that people know how to build 10x productivity. I think we're gonna rule it. which is the way Saudi Arabia uses oil as a venture capital. I think the day we start using our human resources as a venture capital, I think the game is done. Perfect. Thank you so much sir.

1:40:07and create a better experience for you. And number three, this episode must be shared with someone else because one conversation is enough for changing someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.

1:40:37you