Sunita Williams Podcast - Inside Space, Isolation, Astronauts, Father & Media | FO461 Raj Shamani

27:38And then I could just go. I think that takes care of it. That takes care of all the wooshy-washy about it. If you can't really, you have to commit. You have to just get in there and just go. You also said, I was reading somewhere you said that people fart a lot up there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot. And I don't know why exactly, but it just happens. Everybody does. Because if it's the preservatives and the food or something like that, I'm not really sure why, but everybody, everybody does. And I think after a while, potentially people get used to it and it seems like it happens a little less for some people, but sometimes for other people, it just keeps going on.

28:15It's terrible. And then you have to live up in that space for like the days and it smells bad. No, it'll move. It'll move. We have a pretty good ventilation system. So stuff starts to move around pretty quick. But if you if somebody farted and you're like right behind them flying through the module, you're going to fly right through it. How does space smell like? It smells like us. It smells like the food that we eat. It smells like us. But, you know, like, interestingly enough, I think it's not that bad because like we had at some periods of time, 12 people on the space station when generally seven.

28:56And people are all working out. People are all eating. And to me, it didn't smell that bad at all. I mean, it was just sometimes a little stronger when some stronger types of food. I eventually got Indian food, for example, so you could smell that. Some things with garlic, you know, obviously you could smell that. I actually really like the smell of garlic. So for me, it was fine. Sometimes fish because we had like a lot of salmon or tuna fish. And so that sticks around for a little bit longer maybe, but it all ends up dissipating. So that smell, what about the sound? Because ISS, it creaks and moans, right?

29:38Like it just, you can hear that sound almost all the time. Some areas. It also depends on how our orbit is in comparison to the sun. So sometimes when we're getting heated up quite a bit, there's some areas which the metal sort of just pops and bends a little bit. And then that was reported, obviously. Somebody was like, oh, what happened? And so then we realize what the situation is. So whenever there's a lot of sun on these parts, they're called the pressurized mating adapter because they're black on the outside. If you look at different parts of the space station, you'll see most of it's silver, which is sort of reflective.

30:17But some of it is this black part. And that's the part that gets really hot and makes those creaks and moans and bumps. Other things besides that are some of the ventilation. And you can hear stuff kick on, start up and shut down. That happens periodically, obviously. you can find it on the you know if you go into the computer page where it has the system that has that specific system you probably see what happens have you heard any scary sound like what's the scariest sound you've heard i'm just like childlike curious right now at this point yeah when you were stuck like for 286 days what's the most scariest sound you heard um Hmm.

31:02Hmm. Gosh, I'm trying to think of something. I think valves moving, closing and opening. I don't know. I'm I am used to the space station. The space station is sort of like a second home. So my first time up there, I'm looking at it up on the wall. That's why I'm looking at this. I'm trying to think of what was what was scary. But my first time there when I was in the forward part of the space station, living there by myself with my two other Russian colleagues in the way back. Yeah, I got scared a little bit because first time I'm like very hypersensitive to all of these switching of pumps and fans and noises.

31:42One antenna right outside our former, there was a crew quarters there, would turn every now and then night. Or I think it was a camera, actually. And sometimes the folks in mission control would turn it so they could see stuff. and it was like right outside the window so we could hear inside. Um, so I was asking a lot of questions during that flight. Like, what's that? What's that? What's that? But now that you, I've lived there for a long time, I feel like I know most of the things that are happening or I can figure it out. Like, okay, that, that sounds like a motor. That sounds like a valve.

32:15So that must be coming from over here. So this is this. So, you know, it's just like, as though you've like, again, lived at your house for a long time. So you get used to like when the furnace kicks on or something and oh yeah that's happening again but when but for the first time you must have heard at that time did it scare you the first time it did because particularly um when i was like i said the only person living in that part of the space station and my other american counterpart had gone home and you know this is my responsibility was this part of the space station i was like oh what is that what is that what is that so i ended calling the ground a couple times probably in the in that time frame um if i remember correctly just sort of is that normal is that normal and they're like yes yes don't worry about it was there any point where in all your time in in space was there any point where you heard some sound and you're like oh this is it like this like you froze for a moment and like you got scared no um i i wouldn't say that I think we were all a little on edge when in this latest flight, when we had a satellite below us in orbit, um, explode or disintegrate or something.

33:26And then there was a bit of a debris field. And so we were woken up in the middle of the night to all go to our own spacecraft. It's called safe Haven. Um, cause the space, they weren't sure whether or not the debris would hit the space station. So we had about 45 minutes. And the funny part about that is we all met at the bathroom, essentially one last time to go to the bathroom on the, as I call it, the big hotel in space, because the spacecraft are sort of like a little camper. So they don't have really good bathrooms on the spacecraft. And so it was like, you know, take advantage of, okay, I've got 45 minutes.

33:59What am I going to do? I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to get some water, say, hug my friends, say goodbye. Um, that was a little bit surreal situation. I think not because of the bathroom. The bathroom was just sort of funny. But as we were leaving, three spacecraft that have human beings that are going to return to earth. So one spacecraft's going to go and land in the ocean. One's going to land around the United States. One's going to land in the desert in Kazakhstan. One's going to land in the desert in the United States. And we all sort of hugged each other and we're like, hopefully I'll see you on earth.

34:34You know, that was a little bit weird. And I wasn't necessarily scared, just sort of, you know, it made me stop for a moment and go like, wow, this is, this would be bad if we all had to leave. And then we leave the space station. We had some things we had to do to make sure the space station was in a safe configuration as much as possible, closing hatches, getting things ready. So we didn't have time, too much time to sit around and think about it. But for it, for a second that flashed through my mind as we were all there by the bathroom and we were giving each other a couple of little hugs saying goodbye.

35:04so that was weird that was a little unsettling i guess you said this this time this flight the last one was pretty pretty messed up right when you got stuck at you when you got stuck for 286 days um i don't know if i would say messed up is the right word i would say it was a little bit unpredictable in the beginning like that whole summer was like like unfortunately that was the hardest part, I think, the beginning part for once after we launched and then we got to the space station, we knew we weren't going to come home as planned. But there was a lot of people on the ground who were still working to, we're going to get home, we're going to come home tomorrow, we're going to come home tomorrow, we're going to come home tomorrow.

35:47Like, wait a minute, we all have to understand what the problem is and understand what the fix is and all that kind of stuff. But of course, NASA doesn't want to miss an opportunity. So they still had a lot of people turned on to keep working through all this. So that, so that meant there was questions coming to us and we were answering questions back and forth. Um, when, when it seemed like the probability was pretty slim that we'd coming back in the next, you know, two weeks or month, um, we really needed to get some answers to what happened and understand that problem and see if there's a adequate fix before we would get back in that spacecraft.

36:20So that whole timeframe, frame, you know, it's hard to have patience, right? I think all of us have to work on that. They say patience is a virtue and it's very true because it's sort of like when something uncontrollable is happening, you just have to sort of wait until the appropriate answer is provided. That's hard because you sort of want to go, how's it going down there? How's it going? Have you solved the problem yet? You know, like what is the answer? Do we know yet? and you sort of have to give people some time. So we tried our best. I think we were sort of annoying at some points in time and asking the questions and try.

36:57And it's hard when you're up in space. It's like during COVID when we had Zoom calls, it was really hard to really get to the bottom of some things, right? Because you couldn't see somebody. You couldn't go and put your hands on something. You're not right there. And that's what it's sort of like all the time on the space station. We aren't there. I'm not seeing the test set up. I don't know what all the parameters are. I listen to the meetings, but you know how it is in Zoom calls, right? Sometimes your mind is doing something else. Well, you should come back to what's going on, right? So it's a little bit, it was hard to really be part of the solution process.

37:36It was easy to ask questions, but it's hard to be part of the process. And so that was a little frustrating. I think the not so frustrating part at first, but then became frustrating was my family. I think they were wonderful at first, like, oh, you know, just come home, be safe. It's all that. It's all good. You know, like, you know, you're going to be home soon. You know, you'll be home by the falls. It's all good. You know, so then I think the harder, harder part, of course, is like turning that and telling folks that you're not going to be home for a little longer. And so, you know, by the end, I think we both, Butch and I, before even the decision was made, we had an idea that this is not going to happen.

38:16And we knew the next time we'd come home is with the next spacecraft. I mean, this is the process we've been living for a long time. We know that every six months there's a spacecraft that goes up and there's a spacecraft that comes home. And they're not going to change that. It's very expensive. It's a contract. It's a, you know, it's the production of the spacecraft. So that's how it's going to go. So as the summer went on and it was getting clear that we probably weren't going to come home, we knew it would be six more months. So that's when like making those phone calls, like like around the, you know, August time frame, like I'm not coming home for a little while.

38:55We'll see you next year. But but I think I'm very, very fortunate. it, my family was like, Hey, it's okay. You know, don't worry about it. Have a good time, come home on a safe spacecraft. And, uh, I wrote journals on my first two missions and I started it, started it while we were up there for the summer. And my sister's like, just keep writing the journals. Cause they're fun to read. I'm like, Oh, okay. And you know, and it's not just fun. It's, um, I have a group of people that I sent those to. So it, it was able to, I was able to take a lot of people along on the journey with me and show them through my photographs, not just my, but my crewmates photographs and what we were doing up there, what it's like to live and work in space.

39:38And, you know, the aperture gets widened when you have time to do that. So I had a lot of people following along with me and, you know, because I was doing that, a lot of support from friends and family. So that was pretty awesome. So that first time when you, when you got this feeling that, hey, maybe you're not going home and you're definitely, you're asking questions to the ground support, you're asking questions, but when you're alone, you're not asking questions and you're impatient, what's going on in your head? Like now you know you're not going to go home for a while. Oh yeah. So, I mean, right from the beginning anyway, we had things to do for our spacecraft while it stuck to the space station, those test points just working.

40:20So we did, we just kept that whole process, right? What we had already planned to do for the, those next 10 days. And we had a little extra time. So we were doing some other little extra tests. So that was great. And then after that, you know, we had some free time essentially, which and I, of course we had, we worked out. So it's how do we help? How do I put me part of the team? You know, I need to occupy my time with that type of stuff. I like doing that. I'm not going to sit around and feel sorry for myself. It's like, Hey, there's 12 of us up here. We're going through a lot of food. How about if I transfer the food and put it in the right place?

40:52How about if I work on the toilet because we're going through the toilet supplies faster than we should? So how can I help out and just help the team? The things that are like, you know, standard things that you have to do, like take the trash out, you know, like all the things that we normally do here at home. There's specific things we do that we train for. Then there's things that you just have to do on a routine basis. So just try to jump in and help the team as much as possible. You don't give yourself time. just keep yourself occupied all the time? I do generally try. I don't like to hang out, just hang out.

41:25That's sort of silly. Specifically in space, there's a lot of things to do. It's like never a dull moment. And then once it was sort of, not even then, I think just in general, if there was free time and somebody was working on an experiment, sometimes your hands are in a glove box and then you need to get something to do something. you got to take your hands out of the glove box. It's a little bit of production or you have, uh, protective equipment on because you're working on something that's a little bit dangerous. And so then you're trying to make a phone call. That's hard. Cause you have to undo everything and call back to the ground, uh, you know, get everything off of you.

42:02So when it went for me, it was like, Oh, if that person's working on the experiment, how about if I'm, I'm your right hand man, if you need something, just tell me, I'll go, go over here and get it for you. Or, you know, you're working on the toilet with all that stuff on, I'll make the calls down to the ground and then we could work through all these things more efficiently. So there's all of that to do too, just to, just to help out the team. I mean, and that's what we're trained to do, you know, just to help out. And that makes the, that makes time go by for one thing, not that time you really want time to go by, but that also just helps everybody out.

42:33And of course the cool thing that we did while we, I think we, uh, not, not me in particular, but my crewmates were really, um, great photographers. And so Butch and Don, they ended up spending time like setting up different cameras to take some amazing time lapses and stuff like that too. So there's always something to do while you're up there. Was there a night where you lost hope? No, no, no, no, no. That's so funny that that's a question. It is interesting that people said like, and I understand, I guess I could understand why just because of the press and the narrative that was going on that we were stuck in space um i i really wasn't scared because i knew that there was hundreds of people if not thousands that are working on trying to figure out one what the problem is two can we fix it and three how do we get back so all of that was going on down on the ground i know that was all happening not even for one like moment you felt like maybe this is it i'm not going home no um we actually even before uh our spacecraft left we designed some sort of makeshift seats on this on the dragon that was there.

43:40So we had planned seats in case something happened, in case we had another safe haven or something that we had to get in our spacecraft because of something that happened that was out of our control. Um, we actually had a seat in a spacecraft. It wasn't a great seat. It did. It wasn't, didn't have, uh, you know, air breathing connections in a space suit, but we did still have a seat. So, I mean, there's always, there's always something there's, we always plan on something. Those seats needed to be completed. Those seats needed to be completed before we told starliner to leave wow yeah never that's incredible no i mean i have a lot of because like from here down here like all the press all the news all the stuff that we read it it looked like like you're stuck like you're there's no hope for you to come back no no no there's nasa and boeing fighting they're like people just arguing stuff going on and there are Thousands of people making content on you.

44:36And it just, it felt pretty scary. And I genuinely have seen so much content where people were worried. Everybody was wondering. Yeah, yeah. So, like I said, I understand why people would have that impression just because of what the narrative that was going on and the miscommunications, I think, back and forth. And I think that's a little potentially unfortunate. What did your family ever feel like? No, no. That's because we were in touch all the time. You spoke to them after coming back, and did they have the same feeling? Absolutely. You probably saw my mom at some point in time on the news, and she was not worried because, I mean, I'm talking to her.

45:18I'm telling her that it's going to be okay. It's not something they need to worry about. The sort of, I don't want to call it really makeshift, but the seats in the Dragon, that wasn't a great scenario. And we we have we talked about that and there was a little bit folks were not ready for that scenario. Like, oh, like what now we have to accommodate two more people in this dragon in case there's a problem. How do we do it? People came up with some great Apollo 13 solutions with these makeshift seats and stuff. But this is not the professional right way to do it. And so now we actually have a seat kit.

45:57So if somebody from another spacecraft needs to transfer over to this one, they'll be able to do that with a better seat and we'll be able to actually have extra spacesuits. So we'll be able to do that. We have we're working on it. I'm not sure the status of it, but like being able to connect the air with another seat with a T like a like a Y cable. So all of those are great lessons learned because that was I think the worst part. That wasn't a great platform to land. And somebody might have, you know, we did our best that we could do. We actually had a medical doctor who had a lot of experience in this in this setup.

46:35So he did as best as he can to try to come up with seats. But that wasn't optimal. It's not really the right way to do stuff. So, like I said, that was that was the most uncomfortable. We were in those seats like I don't really want to come home like this. but um but the probability right that that something would hit the space station after we had already had something happen this was pretty low um so in my estimation we we all take risks yeah we're in this business because it's risky um not because but as as byproduct of this business it's risky when you launch on a rocket uh when you're in space and coming home you you accept some of those risks.

47:14So this was not out of the box, I would say. When you're up there, you go through multiple sunrises and sunsets in a day, right? I think 16. Yeah, 16 sunrises and 16 sunsets in 24 hours. Some days would feel like very short, some days would be very long, right? Which one was the longest day for you? So when you're on a deployment or an expedition, I think time changes just in your head, right? Obviously it doesn't change in general, but it changes as once we got to that point where we, we knew we were going to stay for a little bit longer. It was almost like a reset. It was almost like the start of the whole expedition all over again because other folks were leaving and then we were going to be the normal seven.

47:57So at that point in time, it felt like it's just starting. So time is normal. somewhere in there there was a thought that we might not come home until May and somewhere around Christmas like oh that might be long we'll be up here for a long period of time and so that was that's when time sort of slowed down a little bit and also I mean it goes hand in hand with activity level also we had just finished doing a lot of science experiments we were just getting ready to do some spacewalk stuff. So we had a little bit of a lull time. Um, and so time was a little bit slow there. And then it accelerates when activities happen again.

48:38As soon as we started getting ready for spacewalks, like a week and a half, two weeks before the spacewalks, things started going fast. Um, our first spacewalk was January 16th. And then, so right after new years, it was like, Oh my gosh, now time is like accelerating. Then we had another one at the end of January. And then it was like a breather for a second thinking, okay, now we have a lot of time again, slow down. And then they said, okay, now you're coming home in March all of a sudden. And so then all of a sudden time really accelerated and everybody was like, let's getting one last picture.

49:09Let's do that. You know, what did I want to do before I left? All of that was happening really quick. So I think it goes in, in, in waves, depending on activity level, depending on, the projection of when you might be home. I'll go back to the very beginning. The summer seemed a little bit long too. That seemed like it was dragging on a little bit without decision. Did you feel lonely in one of those 286 days? I don't know about lonely. There was always people around. But family wasn't. Yeah, the family wasn't. Um, the people that you end up living in space with are like family though. They become family.

49:52Like you've probably seen pictures of us during Christmas time, uh, Thanksgiving and Christmas where we, uh, you know, we, we tried to connect with family. We actually had like, uh, in the United States, there's a big parade, Macy's day parade for Thanksgiving. We had that on a screen so we could watch it sort of makes that connection back to home. and on those on holidays we actually have some time off so it's nice to be able to call home and do like a video conference with people back at home too and you know do a tour show people around and it's fun to see your crewmates like at the dinner table and have them wave to your family and see each other's families and stuff like that too so I think when you get lonely you have an opportunity to one make some phone calls on the weekends or when you have some free time make some video calls and just try to see what's going on back at home and have folks back at home, try to see what's going on up in space.

50:46Um, I reconnected with a lot of my relatives, um, while I was up there, which was wonderful. Some of my folks, some, the capability is there, right? And we all learned it from COVID how to zoom and how to be in, do video conferences, sometimes not so successfully as everybody's talking on top of each other. But, um, you know, some of my relatives here in India, some of my relatives, uh, you know, all over the country in the United States would all get on and then I could talk to them and give them a tour around. It was, that was, that was actually a lot of fun and, um, makes it not feel like lonely.

51:20Of course, when you hang up, you're like, Oh, you know, I wish I was down doing this or, you know, when somebody is telling you some of the fun things that they're doing, of course, you wish you were there being part of that. But then you pinch yourself for a second and you just, Oh my God, I'm living up in space. This is so cool. Like go to the window for a second and see how beautiful it is. I mean, I really wasn't that lonely, honestly. Not at all. No, no. I miss my dogs mostly. Was it? So you never had the loneliest night in space? You don't remember? Not really. Maybe. I feel like I'm a robot answering these questions.

51:54But, you know, I mean, that's, I think, one of the things that I would like people to realize. Like, this is an amazing opportunity. Sure. I mean, even I think about when I had deployments at sea, you know, you get up in the morning. Maybe it's an attitude. I don't know. But you get up in the morning, you go outside, and you see some of the most beautiful sunrises that you can ever imagine in the middle of the ocean on a, you know, deployment. Same thing. You get up in space, and you go to the window, and you don't know what you're going to see. I mean, every day is like, oh, it's there. You know, it's a surprise, or it's nighttime, or what does lightning look like, or whatever.

52:33It's just incredible. And you also know that this is not going to last forever. You're going to come home at some point in time. I mean, I think that's always on the back of my mind. I was like, this is a chance. Even on my first flight, I was sad to leave. I was like crying like when I left because I was like, I don't know if I'll ever have this opportunity again. And it's so incredible.

52:54What are the kind of dreams you get in space? Is it different? Oh, interesting. My father asked me the same question because he was a neuroscientist. And, um, you know, sometimes you dream about, I think you dream about sometimes experience, right? So it was like dreaming about where you are, what you're doing, and then it gets a little bit crazy as all dreams do. Right. So they're not reality, but, but like I was dreaming that I was in space. I was dreaming that I was doing space walks. I was also dreaming that I was back at home. Like it was so interesting that you could dream about both of those.

53:24And I feel like when I've come back to earth, I've also dreamed about being in space as well. Cause I've had that experience. it's it seems like it wears off though which is unfortunate as the farther and farther you get away from your space flight you sort of come out of that like it's like I don't dream as much about space anymore I used to when I first got back quite a bit but is it different when you dream here on earth and when you dream in the space like is it the kind of dreams do you dream of falling do you dream of all the same I think the same in that regard but based on experience yeah Yeah.

54:01Yeah. I mean, I wasn't falling. If I was dreaming about space, I wouldn't fall. Yeah, exactly.

54:08Yeah. So there's nothing different about it. Do you hear like different kind of sounds because you're always constant in an environment which is either very silent or like very noisy? Oh, it's noisy all the time. All the time. I think the most, the biggest impression though, is as you're getting ready to fall asleep, um, before you're asleep, you see like little, like little pieces of light with your eyes closed and it's dark. Um, and the reason I guess it's, it's, uh, uh, radiation, I think that's coming. And so that it's not like what your eyes are seeing. It's some radiation that's hitting some part of your brain, which is triggering a vision of this little light flashes, which is a little bit bizarre.

54:51I wouldn't say it's scary but it's a little unnerving because then you're like what kind of radiation am I getting up here and I'm not protected that's some of those long term effects of being in space I think just in general health wise a little worrisome so you want to protect yourself as much as possible what's the health cost you pay when you come back so I mean initially when you come back you're not feeling very good But that that goes away pretty quick. What are you feeling? Like the moment you land on Earth. Yeah. Nauseous. For me, nauseous, a little sick. And it didn't help that this time we landed in the water.

55:29And then, you know, everybody was concentrating on the dolphins that were there outside of the capsule. But if you look at all the dolphins are swimming or when we landed, we went all the way over and then back up again. And it was funny because the thought in my head was like, oh, no, if we turn over all the way upside down, that's not going to be good. But, you know, it was just sort of like casual thought like that, like, oh, that's not going to be good. And then we came back up and we're sort of bobbing for a second like a cork. Like so if people don't feel good when they're on a boat, think about it that way.

56:00You feel a little bit nauseous and you're going to feel nauseous anyway. For me, I always feel a little nauseous when I come back. The neuro vestibular system has not been working while you're up in space. It's sort of shut down and you have other feelings of orientation while you're up there. the way we evolved, our inner ear for balance is not needed while you're up in space because gravity is not affected on it. So anyway, when you come back, all of a sudden gravity is a player. And then for me, I felt pretty nauseous for like 24 hours. And what's something that's provocative, as they say, is like getting out of your spacesuit when you put it over your head, pitch your head up like that, that really makes you feel a little sick.

56:41So we get out of, We're getting out of the spacecraft and we get out on a like a sort of like a little seat with people helping us because there's a big hole in the in the spacecraft for where the cargo is. And so nobody wants to trip and fall getting out, first of all, because you're not feeling too good. And then they just take us to the back where we can get out of our spacesuits. Right after that, though, once you're out of your suit and you're not feeling like you're going to throw up, you can stand up. And we walked up the stairs to where the helicopter was and took us out of there. So that still nauseous for me for about 24 to 48 hours is the big thing.

57:20And usually you'll see people with somebody helping them, supporting them, just because all the little balance muscles that you use here on Earth that you don't even realize and the small muscles in your neck, all of that has to get recharged again. And so that takes, for me, you know, realistically to get all the way back about a month. And we work with our physical trainers to for some certain exercises. They give us tests along the way to see how we're doing, see how we're improving. And it's actually pretty cool to see your body like come back to human self again, you know, to earthly self again.

57:55So you feel like when you come back for that month, when you're trying to acclimatize, adapt to the earth again, you feel like things are falling or like if you pick up the pen, then it's just going to go like that. Like you get these things? Because I saw a video of liquid pineapple juice. I saw that. It happens for a little bit, but you'll learn pretty quick that our gravity is the predominant force on this planet. So you can't get away from it. So it's here. it's not but you learn like pretty quickly but do you like you'll do something stupid first like i'll just drop this bottle like oh okay never mind so you do it you do one thing and then it's then it's like you're back yeah yeah yeah and is it like more difficult for you to walk after you come back no no not really it's not difficult you're just gonna potentially fall over so so i mean just because of balance so you need that's why somebody usually helps i was just looking at even in that month oh no no no no just just for like two days or something yeah yeah and um and usually i we don't drive for a little bit just because you know you're just reaction time might be a little bit slow and so somebody will take us drive us to where we need to go for the first week and all your senses do they work differently when you come back like the sound the smell uh i think enlightened to what's here on earth like i remember distinctly on my first mission, we landed in the desert in California.

59:24And the smell, when they, as soon as they opened the hatch, the smell of dirt and sage, cause there's a lot of the sage plant there, that smell was so predominant, like, wow, like I could just, we're back on a plant, you know, on planet earth again. So it was, it was wonderful. It was nice. Cause you, things that you miss, like all of that, that and like wind, those are like things that you really like, oh my gosh, I feel this. And being in the first time in a shower feels really, really good. Not just, not cause you're necessarily dirty. Cause we don't really get dirty up there. We just sweat and then, you know, take a sponge bath.

59:57Um, but just to feel something falling on you, that's really nice. And one of the, it's funny, one of the, one of the other things that, um, Don Pettit and I had this conversation. It's like, you know what I really miss is a sink. Like just to go someplace and put your hands under, wash your hands and then wash your face. Those things you just miss versus just squirting water and then rubbing it on yourself, you know? So I don't know. There's just different funny things like that that get little triggers, yeah. You, when you came back, the first thing you ate was the VegGrill Cheese Sandwich. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1:00:31Because it reminded you of your father. Yes, yes. Well, it's funny. I had that before I flew on my first flight, for sure, from my father. And I was thinking about it coming back up again. And I'm like, oh, this will be smooth. It won't be hard if I throw up. And when I came back to earth, specifically this time, over the last couple of years, my husband has started to make homemade bread. And I couldn't think of a better thing to eat than a grilled cheese with his homemade bread. It was like putting those two together. Oh, so good. What did it taste like? Did it remind you of your father? Oh, yeah.

1:01:07Yeah. Remind me of my dad, of course, just because he ate grilled cheese all the time. and just it was yummy because we don't have really good bread. You know, we have little teeny loaves of bread up there and tortillas. And so having really good bread and having cheese, which is like a little bit of a luxury in space. We get it every now and then, but we don't have it on a regular basis up there. We have some canned cheese on the Russian side, but just every now and then we get a specialty like a chunk of cheese, but we don't really have cheese all the time. You were close to your father, right?

1:01:40Yeah, yeah. What do you miss about him the most? I think I miss just going for a walk with him. That's always nice. I mean, he was one of these types of people who could really go for a walk and observe everything around him. And not that he's talking about it all the time, but he might just stop you for a second and then tell you something. And just, you know, just having a nice conversation with him. You're so accomplished. You've done so many things. and somebody asked you about your father and you said that your accomplishments are relatively way easier than your father like your father is much more accomplished why did you say so oh I absolutely believe that you know one you know he did a lot of those things his life accomplishments in his life on his own like just went out there and did it I feel like I've been sort of guided, uh, by having a military career and then, you know, not necessarily being told, but like, Hey, this is the opportunity or this is what you're supposed to be doing.

1:02:42And so I'm just doing things. And then, then some advice from some friends, like I mentioned about becoming an astronaut. Um, that's all just sort of, it seemed like it was easy and it was piled on each other, not necessarily easy. I shouldn't say it that way, but like it was obvious when things became obvious. Whereas my, for my dad, I think about somebody making the decision, trying to make the decision. What do I want to do when I grow up? I have to, um, if I want to go to school, I have to have really good grades or I'm not going to get in school. You know, I, I want to go to medical school.

1:03:15It's was very competitive. It is very competitive here in India. It's in competitive in the United States too, but I would say, uh, more so here. And, um, and he didn't have his parents to help him or to guide him. He just decided he was going to do it and decided like, this is how I have to live. I I'm going to go to boarding school. I'm going to go to medical school. I'm going to somehow figure out a way to come to the United States and practice medicine there and see how that is and decide whether I'm coming back or going. And I mean, I have my brother over there, but that's it. I don't know what this journey is going to be like.

1:03:51I mean, for us, we like get on a plane and we go someplace across around the globe or on a spacecraft. And he had to get on a boat, that whole experience. And part of the reason he ate cheese was because the first time he ate cheese was on the ship that he was coming over here. He didn't know what it was. He was like, what is this plasticky thing? So after that, he liked cheese and then he ate grilled cheese because he didn't really know what to make and how to make stuff when he came to the United States right away until he got some friends and, you know, gathered with them and then was able to make some other food.

1:04:26But grilled cheese was his go-to because it was easy. He knew it was vegetarian. It was good. Do you still measure your success against his? No, I just, I just, when people ask about it, I just... I think to myself like, oh gosh, don't make such a big deal about it because there's other people who have done some incredible incredible things and had to plan it out on their own. And so that's why I feel like his accomplishments were so much more brave and courageous than mine. And you don't take compliments well, do you? Well, I feel like I know myself, right? And I'm not extraordinary. I'm just somebody who has put their head down and done some stuff and didn't take no for an answer.

1:05:16But I'm not extraordinary. And I say that just because I think there's many more young astronauts out there and they'll probably be doubting themselves at some points in time. And that's OK, but they can do it. You know, this is not an extraordinary feat. Wow. You're extraordinary. I don't know why you think that, you know, you're extraordinary. And I'm sure like 99.99 % people will feel about that. Oh, gosh. Probably like 0.01 % somewhere thinking. No, I'm serious. But I feel, I mean, I honestly feel this way. Like, if I could do these things, anybody could do these things. I had a hard time in college.

1:05:59There was subjects in high school that I still had hard times with, you know, like, people are, they can do it. We're smart. I mean, I think sometimes we just don't tap our potential. Yeah, because you're talking about your father, I always feel like I like asking this question. So I'll go ahead and ask you, what do you wish your father would have seen in you before he left? Oh, wow.

1:06:28That's what I remember him saying one time, I'll just I don't know if I'm going to answer your question exactly. But I remember him saying I was after like my first flight or something, maybe my second flight, and we were talking about space. And he goes, he goes, you know a lot about space. And I said, Dad, I know a lot about space because I live there. Like, of course, I know a lot about space. I would say, you know, like I grew up in Native, Massachusetts, right? I would say, you know a lot about Native, Massachusetts. We grew up there. So like, it's the same type of thing, which was just sort of funny for me to have him, uh, say that, which was, and then we, we had a good laugh about it.

1:07:10Um, but I think I, you know, it's funny. I think after I became a test pilot and an astronaut, he was, you know, we were, he was doing his life. I was doing my life after I graduated from college. So I don't think he knew exactly in my mom either what I was doing. And they all came to my test pilot school graduation. And I think it was enlightening for them to see all of the aircraft that we were flying and what we were doing. Because before that, I was in the Navy and I was deploying and going away. And so I don't think it was tangible because it was so out of the realm of what folks in my family were doing at that time, like exactly what we were doing.

1:07:51But when they saw all the different aircraft and helicopters and heard a lot about that, I think both of my parents at that point in time were a little surprised that I went down that path. Like they knew that was going on, but they really didn't see it until that time because all the aircraft were there. All my classmates were there. And then when I became an astronaut, I think there was a little bit of the same thing. It seems different from everything our family was doing. So it's hard to really put your hands on it. Um, but when they all went to my first launch to see a space shuttle launch out of Florida, I think that like was like eyeopening experience for everybody.

1:08:30Like, wow, this is, this is serious. We launch on rockets. My sister was said such a funny thing. I called her once I got to the space station. I said, what was your impression? Mostly. Cause I like to hear what people's impressions are. I'm like, what was it like? She goes, oh my God, it was nighttime launch too. She goes, oh my God, there was so much fire. And I said, yeah, that's what's at the bottom of rockets. It's fire. That's how they go. But it's funny because I think at that point in time, people realized what this is all about. And I think my father at the same time figured out like, wow, she's actually going to space.

1:09:05And I think he was the one who gave me the Bhagavad Gita. He was the one who gave me the Upanishads on my second flight. And I think he was just like, you're you're you have a unique experience and uh stay grounded live and live in the moment you you carry Bhagavad Gita and Lord Ganesh still with you right because your father gave it to you so does it still feel the same or does it feel different now um like when you carry Bhagavad Gita with you now when you're now that your father's not with you yeah yeah I mean it's a A little piece of him is with it all, of course. I mean, that's why I'm Indian, right?

1:09:46That's because of him. I think at least half of my personality is because of him and understanding of the universe around us is because of him. What part of it feels different now?

1:10:05Since he's not here, it seems like he's part of all of that, which is sort of interesting thought process i didn't think about that before but like since he's not with us he's part of all of that that you feel and you study is in the universe he's not here just to be like next to me to tell me about the plants and the trees and the birds he's part of all of that nice and what specific trait you would say you inherited from your father um is there any because you've said that you got your slovenian stubbornness from your mother oh yeah you've heard it yeah yeah yeah i think uh from my father i'm very lucky to be to have the ability to stop and just observe around me uh i like this one picture don pettit took of me in the cupola because um and my friend tracy took one that was like this too it's it's nice to just have some moments of time, not when you're taking a picture or trying to do something, when you can just stop and look at what's going on around you.

1:11:14I did not get that from my mom. My mom is very, very, very active, but my father had the ability to just, um, be one with, with the world for a moment. Uh, maybe it's on a walk, but maybe it's sometimes just hanging out did any part of you change after he's gone you know um I miss him physically you know because it's always nice to just be able to talk to somebody but at the same time you know his passing was very peaceful and I feel like he was he was ready to go it's funny it was very interesting when he passed away we uh my sister and i were just coming in to see him and he just passed and he was i think he was just in a peaceful place because he was he was up and around maybe a half an hour before we had were there and so i think he was just sort of like it's my time to go to the next place and it'll be okay so that made us feel okay too and you so when you carry lord Ganesh with you you said like it's been your good luck charm it's been always there all around your house you always carried with you do you see a father in that energy now um with Lord Ganesh not not as a person you know like it's funny like I'm saying it's his it was his time to leave and and move on to the next thing right so uh as I see that as part of who I am because of him hmm yeah but you don't feel like there's some invisibly he's watching you from some oh absolutely i know i know he's watching yeah his his spark is there as he would say his spark is there watching me all the time you know because we are talking about a father and lord ganesh and bhagavad-gita i have to ask you the most obvious question is how does india look like from the space yeah so india uh is sometimes tricky to get a picture of because it's a little bit hazy at times but sometimes it's awesome.

1:13:19So it just depends on one, the weather. But there's now, and I don't remember this from last night, it's like a trail to come to see India because there's fishing boats in the Gulf of Arabia off of the coast of India on the west side. There's different parts of different fishing boat sections in the world, but it's definitely on the west coast of India. and it's so weird because I thought to myself, how could these be fishing boats? How could I see a boat? There's no way. Cause like in the daytime, sometimes you can't see the boat, but you can see the wake cause the wake goes on for miles, but they must have amazing lights.

1:13:57And for whatever reason, if they're looking into the water or if they're trying to attack fish or whatever they're trying to do, I don't know, but you can see these big plots of fishing boats all over the place. So that's new for nighttime. And you can see that coming in. And then at night, which is India is pretty spectacular because the cities are lit up, it's white lights and all those lights seems to be like connected. It's almost like when I see it, I think of like nerves, like pictures people have of when they like tell you like there's a nerve problem and these nerves are connected, like all of this little connections.

1:14:35India is like that's like very connected with lights at night. So that's, that was one big impression this time that I didn't remember from last time, last time, uh, more so, um, looking at India in the daytime and the colors are amazing. The Himalayas are absolutely amazing. And you can, you can sort of see where it, like I've said this before, it feels like where the plates bumped up into each other and, and made the, you know, made the mountains. Um, and then the coast is obviously cool because you can see particularly on the east side when the rivers run off how they interact with the water on that side the different colors and swirls from that side and then at one point in time I took a picture of the interaction between India and how do we call it nowadays Sri Lanka yeah and it seems like there's a connection there I'll just say that I'll say that I think I think that picture took there was a little bit of a discussion about that picture but it looks like there is you know they absolutely could be connected yeah there must be some there's something there there's something connected we leave it out there like yeah yeah leave it at that and when you look out of the window okay this is my sci-fi brain talking okay so just don't doubt me on this question but i'm still gonna be what's the strangest thing you've seen in the space which you think is going to be hard to believe for people here oh interesting um uh two different things that were different or have been different um there's a lot of communication satellites up there now star links and so you can this time uh 10 from 10 years ago they fly across the the view like you see the stars of course as they're coming but they fly across the view which is like whoa where did these all come from.

1:16:29And, um, there's, which is great because there's a lot of communication now on earth because we have these constellations of satellites, but there is, it was an impression, like there is a lot of stuff in orbits around the planet. Um, the other thing, which was really cool this time, uh, and we were able, it's hard to see with the naked eye, but we have some really great cameras and we were able to take pictures, not me in particular, but Don Pettit and Matt Dominic of blue jets and red sprites coming out of a thundercloud, like energy coming up. Um, it's out there because Nicole Ayers took some after we left too.

1:17:05And I think those are posted. Um, just amazing that we were able to take pictures of energy coming out of a thundercloud and out of lightning. Wow. Yeah, that was pretty amazing. So there's, there's just, and I had no idea those things existed. People knew they were existing, but it was hard to actually document it. And now with the cameras that we have, we can, we can document that. So all of that is pretty, pretty amazing. Don was able to also with his camera, because these are things you can see, you can see the Milky Way. Like it's amazing to see so many billions of stars out there, but he was, and it's hard to take a good pictures, pinpoint pictures of stars because we're moving so fast.

1:17:44He rigged up with a little gearbox, uh, something to copy the orbital rate as we were flying so he could pinpoint the pictures pinpoint the stars and then the lights on the earth were a little bit blurred that's backwards of how normal cameras or normal setups would do it so those pictures are out there also from Don Pettit if anybody gets a moment to take a look on the internet incredible pictures so I had the luxury of being up there with some amazing photographers that were able to do that do you do you believe there's some life out there absolutely with those billions of stars out there? You know, we're just a little planet around one star.

1:18:24So yeah, there's life out there. Um, I mean, there's life on earth in places we never thought that could be right at the bottom of the ocean with the thermal vents that are coming up. There's light things that live without, uh, great pressure without light, um, in the darkness. So yes. And strange gases that we found actually on our second spacewalk, which did some swabbing on the outside of the spacecraft. There's microbes that live on the outside of the space station. Yes, they're probably from us because they're in the vicinity of where there's some gas vents whenever we vent overboard. So sure, they probably came from us because they're right there.

1:19:03But what it proves to us is something can live in the vacuum of space with the heating and cooling. So that's more, you know, proof in the pudding that something can live out there. even as close as the moons of Jupiter thinking that one of them at least Europa I think it is is has water on it be nice to drop a spacecraft over there and drop a rover through the ice and see what's going on and there's some plans to do that as well but if there's water there's probably something there's obviously you know evidence of water on the moon and on Mars or some type of liquid right so there might be might have been something on mars at least that we could potentially go see if we go there so you think there's some species around there um there might be who knows who knows we have to go and see you believe in the possibility but you don't know yeah yeah no i mean i don't think it's humans for example but but there's some type of some forms of life potentially interesting but potentially i've i've like last two three questions for you yeah and one of them is tell me the most beautiful thing you've seen.

1:20:13I mean, I really think the aurora and one of the really huge benefits of us being up there all of the summer of 24 this year also, or last year in 25, but we weren't there, thankfully. But in 24, the summer, we had some incredible aurora because of solar activity and such that the aurora came down. Usually you look out the window and you see it over there. Like you're looking and like, Oh my God, that's amazing. Look at it. It's so great. We're taking pictures out the side so you can sort of see the earth. This time we flew essentially through the Aurora. It was low enough. Our orbit's 51.6 degrees.

1:20:50So it came down somewhere in that vicinity. And it was amazing. Like not only like what you typically see of green lights, but you also, we also saw pinks and then some purple, which means, you know, that was stronger And there was interacting with other, um, um, elements, uh, in our, in, in the vicinity of our magnetic field. So pretty impressive and humbling. When you think about it, first time I saw it, I was on my first flight on a spacewalk and, um, it was below me and I was like, Whoa, you know, thinking like, um, the energy that's out there in the universe is just incredible and something that we could, we, we worry about energy here on this planet all the time, but there's more out there that we could never even think about harnessing so how do we how would we do that right it's amazing so um that it was just mind-boggling and incredible yeah interesting yeah before you set a foot on your first flight you saw what happened with Kalpana Chabla and then she's she was an incredible woman yes absolutely inspiration for all of us role model yes yeah like she was she's a friend of she's role model and you saw her death did that event change anything you or the way you look at death and life because you were taking the same kind of path and she's a friend and she's role model she's the first indian american woman to do all of these things and you're going to be the next so did that change anything you about death i think not about death but about the i think the desire to explore more.

1:22:28I know that her and her crewmates, you know, that was in their heart. I mean, they were doing some really fundamental science to help us with the space station and understand how we do, how the processes work so we can make, do even more incredible experiments while we're up there and then continue this fact of us being able to live for longer in space and then how we can move on. I mean, I knew all of them and a couple of them very well, really good friends and not only Kulpna, but that was like what was in their hearts. You know, Dave Brown was a really good friend. Probably one of the reasons I came to NASA was because I knew him a long time beforehand.

1:23:09And he was one of those people who was like, Sonny, this job is for you. And so I knew in his heart, I know in Kulpna's heart, that this is what they wanted to do. So I think it gave us even more of a feeling of like, we really want to continue this. We've got to do this in their memory. And the same with Challenger. And that's why we continue to fly the space shuttle after Challenger. Like we can do this and we can do this better. And we're going to learn more about this. We're not going to let their, you know, situation put a stop on it. They wouldn't want that. So we're just going to, we're going to press harder.

1:23:42Um, and we, I think we all know that there's risks involved in this, but we've learned so much from each misstep. I would say we learned from a challenger. We learn, of course we learned from Apollo one, first and foremost, the Russians have learned there a lot of things from Soyuz issues as well. And we've learned from challenger. We've learned from Columbia. We've learned from star liner. I mean, one of the, like the, I think the best things about Starliner is some of those thrusters are on other spacecraft. How do we, now we need to understand a little bit more about this and make those spacecraft better.

1:24:18And what are the questions we didn't ask? And we can ask those questions for the next spacecraft that we're going to fly. So it didn't scare me. It got me ready to go and happy to explore in their name. Right. And so when you're strapping yourself in the rocket in that moment, are you like super optimistic or you are going with the thought that you're prepared to die? Whatever happens, we'll take care. I think we're not super optimistic and not prepared to die. Neither one of those things. I think we're ready for I mean, it was sort of like, come on. It's like a game, right? It's sort of like like at the beginning of a football match.

1:24:56Right. And everybody's pumped up and they're ready to take on the responsibility of whatever action is going to happen. Right. They're ready. I think that's how we felt at least you know Butch and I getting into we're ready for this we're ready let's go we know we know what we can handle we know what we're supposed to do like let's just let's go bring it on there's no other thought yeah no no when you do those VR simulations right in that do you do you see yourself maybe never coming back or doing something or no you're like just never thought oh no like there's a there's a vr thing that we do for uh this backpack that we have on on the back for our spacewalks right that is uh to me scary because there's you know you have to practice a little bit to figure out how to fly or with the orbital mechanics to get yourself back to the space station and when you're learning this um for me i wasn't a natural right from the get go.

1:25:51I figured it out and I have a plan, but so the first time I did it, you know, I think I missed the space station by like inches and you can't do anything because you're out of gas and like, ah, and you float away and that would be bad. Um, it leaves an impression on left an impression on me. Like you're just sitting here with goggles on and you're sweating. Cause this is, you're working, trying to figure out how to solve this problem and nervous that you're going to float away, um, such that there's just probably 99.9%. I will never, uh, get myself in that situation. I can't say a hundred percent, but whenever I got to a work site, a tether down, a second tether down.

1:26:32Okay. Now I can take my hands off. Like it left such an impression that you would really never want to get yourself in that situation. Like I don't ever want to have this happen to me never so the last question yeah is what's one question you wish people would have asked you oh uh um oh i'm so my biggest takeaway from this flight was really not there's lots of technical uh things that we learned right like i just mentioned that we could pass on and make the next flight better or make the hardware better ask the right questions maybe do the engineering process better, right? All of that is huge lessons learned.

1:27:13But the biggest lesson learned is when I came back. And again, we could talk about the press and how maybe the narrative was a little blown out of proportion in my perspective, but people would be like, I'm so glad you came back. People, I don't know. I don't know even what country they're from. I don't know what nationality they are. I don't know what ethnicity they are. I don't know a religion. I don't know what politics are from all over the world. We're like, I'm so happy you're back. You know, welcome home. Thankfully, we're praying for you. We were thinking about you, whatever, you know.

1:27:46And my overall lesson learned from this is like people are good. People are nice. And as human beings, we care about each other. And it seems like that gets lost with a lot of distractions and noise that are going around. And we just need to listen to each other because people are good. Does it get you overwhelmed when you talk about it? It bums me out a little bit because I had to go through this process to see that. And that's why I keep talking about it because I hope that other people don't have to go through a process. I hope we would just stop and listen to each other and realize how good human beings are.

1:28:29Yeah. I can see your eyes getting teared up. Yeah, no. Human beings care about each other. And we forget that. We fight over stupid things, which is unfortunate. Thank you so much for doing this. It was an honor to speak to you. It was fun. It was incredibly good. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you so much. And thanks to your team. You guys are very patient. Hello. Hi. How are you? Hello, Raj. Hi, Raj. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Hi, guys. How are you? We're honored to have you. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much. What do you read? what do you usually read?

1:29:06I have read just mostly technical stuff more more recently last 10 years of my life have sort of been all consumed by this flight so um um so that and a commercial crew so I haven't had a lot of just nice reading I'm reading a funny little book right now about I got it as a gift from Slovenia about weird little Slovenian things which is fun but I I actually more so like, what is it called? Like fictional history? Which book were you reading? I'm interested in this. Like about Einstein. And then there were some other ones. But I haven't read them for a little while. But anyway, I like reading about the people.

1:29:50Yeah. Thank you so much for watching this podcast till the end. Please let us know in the comments. What all did we do right so that we can improve and keep doing that better? And what all did we do wrong so that we never repeat it? And at the same time, please give us suggestions of who's the next guest that you want to see on the podcast. And don't forget to share this episode with at least one person who will get some insights because one conversation is enough to give people enough ideas to change their lives. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out. And also, don't forget to subscribe to the channel.

1:30:29Thank you.