T*rror, Crime & Secrets: Truth Behind 26/11, Kasab, Dawood & Police | Rakesh Maria | FO437 Raj Shamani

45:03You know, he didn't want anything like that. He thought of Kareem Lala. Now till that time, and I'm talking of 1967. Till 1967, Kareem Lala and Haji Mastan knew of each other. But never met. But never met. So, Haji Mastan went to Karim Lala's office, you know, jail road, Dungri. He started a cafe of his brother's brother. This fellow used to sit down in a charpai there. So, he went to Dungri. He went. Karim Lala sitting down in the charpai. He goes and he says, Bade Baba. People used to call Karim Lala Bade Baba. Bade Baba Mastan. Now, Karim Lala had heard of Mastan. So, their own unwritten code was what differentiates the gangsters of old and the new gangsters from Daoud onwards.

46:06They respected each other's jurisdiction. They respected their own jurisdiction, their own jurisdiction. There was no interference in that. They didn't do it there. And they, you know, the gangsters of old worked on two. Zaban, word, and ittimaad. Ittimaad is trust. Ek time zaban de di, and you trust the person. Khatam. Uske baad mein, nothing. So these are the two things that they, you know, worked on. So, Kareem Lala then became friends with. Haji Mastan. Haji Mastan in 67 and they started working together. Now, Karim Lala was born in 1911. He was born in a village called Samalam in a very picturesque Shaigal district which is nestling in the valley of the Kunar River in the Kunar province.

47:16Kunar province is the easternmost province of Afghanistan. Okay. He belonged to the Shafi Shinwari tribe, a tribe called the Shafi. You know, in the Pathans, there are 400 different tribes. In 23rd April 1930, Karim Lala was what, 19 years old at that time. Matma Gandhi had started the civil disobedience movement first march he started what is called the salt satyagra you know the Britishers they had levied a tax on salt and nobody could manufacture distribute sell the monopoly of the government people it was great hardship to the poor because salt is a basic ingredient in food so Matma Gandhi started the what is called the dandi march he started from Sabarmati Ashram and walked all the way to Dundee to make, it was a civil disobedience, peaceful civil disobedience, made salt by the basic process of evaporation.

48:22He reached Dundee on 6th of April and he made the salt. Now that one act galvanized the whole country. And when I say country, it was a unified Afghanistan, Pakistan, everything was India at that time. When you think of Pathan, you know, violence is an integral part of their life. It's an absolute integral part of their life. See, there are 400 different tribes governed by a unique code of conduct called Pashtunwali. Now, the Pathans, they are called Pashtuns or Pakhtuns. and they are from the Northwest Frontier province they are governed by this unique code which is four pillars honor loyalty reciprocity and retribution the central pillar of this code is honor and honor is called Nang.

49:37Nang. You know, this code has been handed down verbally from generation to generation. It is an unwritten code. It is based on ethical behavior. It is based on the decisions and deliberations of chiefs, heads of tribes and the important tenets of Islam, the religion they came to adopt. they follow this. So this Pashtunwali, Nang is a very very important concept of this. Nang is honor. Now this honor which is there for them everything else is secondary. Nang is and if Nang is disturbed the entire balance of life is and what how can you control that imbalance it can only be controlled by what they call badal badal is revenge or retribution okay this is their Pashtunwali code very very clear on that revenge is not an emotion it is a duty and Kareem Lala comes from that school of thought they are pathans they are pathans that's the only thing which is important this thing of the pathans is This is what, you know, when we talk of the gang war at that time, you know, this is what prompted them.

51:13You know, normally what happens, your gang is my gang, we are very big in the same way, business is affected. So, third person comes and good sense prevails amongst the two of us. We have just been killed, we have been killed. Let's now compromise and this. There was no compromise in Patthans case. compromise if you have killed somebody then there's revenge you have to take one to one balance over you know they are governed by Pashtunwali they are governed by Pashtunwali coming back to

51:46Kareem Lala in all over the India the civil disobedience started the Pathan's despite being with this Pashtunwali there was a very close associate of Mahatma Gandhi called Khan Abdul Gafar Khan. Sarad Gandhi. Frontier Gandhi. He started what is called Khudai Khidmatgarh, Servants of God for peaceful demonstrations. Now, in the Northwest Frontier Province, the Britishers, you know, the Pathans never liked anybody interfering in their autonomy. So they didn't like the British. The British came with what is called the Frontier Crimes Regulation Act. Now what is this Frontier Crimes Regulation Act?

52:39You don't have a right of appeal. You don't have the right for a vakeel, that is a lawyer. And you don't have the right to dalil, that means right to present evidence or your arguments. This was not liked by the Pathan. So Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan was rallying the youth against this. And they had chosen the date of 23rd April 1930 for a peaceful demonstration in Peshawar. In Peshawar, there is a place called Kissa Khwani Bazaar. Kissa is story. Khwani is a storyteller. it's a very unique place you know this is the place from where the legendary actor Mr. Dilip Kumar Yusuf Khan was from Kissa Khaunee Bazaar from Peshawar now the British were not prepared for a non-violent pathan that what is this so they were sending word you know used to have the fellows with drums those beaters they would come and they would say you know Shasana has said that there is no other law anyone will not join they went these beaters used to go to villages so they came to Samalam to Karim Lala village Karim Lala was fascinated by Sarat Gandhi Khudai Khitmatgar he wanted to go his father told him no you will not go you will not go he was 19 years old he liked a girl from the village she reciprocated his feelings they were fortively meeting each other now there was another fellow a cousin of Kareem Lala who was also angling for the same girl so some animals developed between the two but in addition to thinking about the girl he was also thinking of joining the movement.

54:54The movement. So he convinced a few friends of his that let's go there. So in this way, his three-four friends came with him. And they were present in Kissa Khaunee Bazaar against the wishes of Karim Lala's father and some of the elders in the village. Kissa Khaunee Bazaar was like Jaliyawala Baag. You know, you had the very famous World War I regiment. He was the Gadwali regiment. So Gadwali regiment was a major, Major Chandra Singh. Two platoons were there. So the British officer who was there, he ordered firing. So Gadwali and all, Captain Chandra Singh Gadwali, Major, Major Gadwali said, no they are unarmed they are doing a peaceful demonstration I will not do it it was like a mutiny but then they call other this and they opened fire 230 people died and close to 500 were injured now very little is known about this Kissa Karni Bazaar massacre one of the person who died in that shooting was one of his friends from the village so when he took it back you know there was a whole thing in the town that what happened and his arrival for the girls he got an opportunity and he started berating the girl berating Karim that he had done this you know he has done this in Karim's girl argument and in that argument he was not Lala at that time he was just Kareem Khan he took out the khanjar and killed him killed that boy after killing that boy he ran straight home to his mother now Pashtunwali is absolutely unambiguous when it comes to this eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth it was within the rights of that boy's family in lieu of that that either kill Kareem or one of his family members brothers or one of his brothers to the mother she realized what it is and she took a decision three men who can pack from there ran to Peshawar from Samalam in 1930 Kareem Lala comes to Peshawar comes to Peshawar and in Peshawar he's trying for now Kareem Lala was educated he could read and write Pashto and Urdu this is the language of the Pathan's the majority spoke Pashto but there was another this called Dari also which is that Iranian type of thing so he he could read and write because of family connections you know in 1851 there was like our home guards now to take care of the remote tribal areas they had a local guards called PFF Punjab Frontier Force it was created in 1851 by one of the founders was Harry Lumsden he created it they didn't have the drills and other things of the army but they could go into the remote areas and call Jirga's council, arrest somebody and bring him and give.

58:53So from Peshawar, he comes in 1932, he comes to Kolkata because from 1920 onwards, Pathans are moving from Afghanistan, Peshawar and all that to Kolkata and Bombay. So he comes to Kolkata. So in 1936, four years he has logged in Kolkata without anything. 1936, he takes the Royal Imperial train and comes to Mumbai. Lands in that time, it was called the Ballad Pier Mole Station. He comes there, goes to Tandil Street in Khadak Dungri where all the pathans there was a room to take a room hire a cook then go and search for jobs and you know watchman, coolie loader whatever it is and stay together and hire a cook who used to cook for them he also did the same thing but then he thought is my life only there used to be a wagon freight looter called Jumma Khan.

1:00:17Now this fellow was tall he was very daring. He used to jump from one compartment in a running train to the other. You know freight bags were sold. You know grain. He used to do it. He wanted, if you're looking for a deputy he searched for, he got Kareem to do this thing. and Kareem galvanized the gang. They started working. Everybody treated him as a second in command. now the British could not allow how you know I say sorry all these loot are going on so they laid a trap they shot Jumma Khan who was injured they arrested Jumma Khan Kareem and other things they were out of there they tried Jumma Khan and Jumma Khan was hung he was given death penalty he was hung so Kareem Lala is back nothing to do so Kareem Lala gets a job.

1:01:18There used to be two drug lords in Mumbai at that time. Another Jumma Khan who used to operate from Dongri and a fellow called Babul Khan who used to operate from Nalbazar. So,

1:01:32Babul Khan in that building in that building Kareem Lala gets a job as a watchman. So, he is observing Babul Khan now on narcotics. he is observing a leader of another kind. But again Pashtunwali comes in. How? Babul Khan had a daughter. One day when she was coming back home, Rampur was a watermelon woman. He

1:02:03teased the girl. Now Pashtunwali is very clear. You know, modesty of women, courage, manhood you know these are these are things honor nobody can disturb that you know you can't do it you can't do it he can't do it if he did it then you have to face the consequences so a girl came and said he did it who has this audacity gumption to do something like that he went he was standing there you know for cutting watermelon that knife was he took his knife and just slashed it. Kareem nahi Babul Khan? Babul Khan. Okay. Karke usko jagha pari mar diya. Now to the community Babul Khan was not the ROP. The criminal was the water fountain fellow.

1:03:00But as per law he had to be arrested. He got arrested. Now Jumma Khan should have normally been a rival. Why I'm telling you this is you can see the the the level of people at that time. You know, he may be my rival. We have demarcated our this. But if I was in him, he was also a pathan, Jumma Khan. He said if I was in his place, I would have done the same thing. So he started moving heaven and earth

1:03:31to bail him out. And who is the help of Jumma Khan? It is Kareem Lala. He is in that safe Babul Khan team. Ultimately, they go to Delhi, use their contacts, go to Delhi. And Delhi, they are told that, you know, you may think it is not this, you know, this comes under exception, you know, grave and sudden provocation. You may think, but it is for the court to decide. You cannot do this. There is something called parole. Get this fellow out on parole and then you can see what it is. So they come back, hire a lawyer, get him out on parole and Babul Khan goes back to Afghanistan never to be seen again.

1:04:10But then Kareem Lala sees how the system can be subverted, what Juma Khan and all, how they are. So he gets his old freight wagon fellows, you know, Hero Lala, Bashrin Mama, Kadar Mama, Karam Khan, Lal Khan. He gets this whole group. They form something and they start searching for jobs as loaders to start thefts in the docks. So one day they were sitting in the docks, the Mathadis and the Malbaris, they were the two communities controlling dock. So people used to sit at the gate and the Toliwala, the contractor, would come and take people. So these people used to bribe the Malbari to get a job.

1:05:04So Karim Lala is sitting down, waiting you know so his people ask the you know so he demands a very high rate so his people tell him the pathans tell him that is not the rate we will get the rate of the whole day we will get the rate of the whole day so he abuses them again his brain he raised his brain and he killed the money so all the money From that day, Kareem Khan became Kareem Lala. The people started calling him Kareem Lala. And his control over the entire Pathan population. He became their leader. He became their leader, their protector. So this is Kareem Lala's. But how did now these were the main, like the old ones?

1:05:59Where did Daud Abrahim come from? the beginning of the 70s

1:06:09Karim Lala, Mastan, Varda Yusuf Patel they were they were there now Dauj's father Ibrahim Kaskar he was one of four sons and he got employment as a constable in Mumbai police. When Daud was born see he Ibrahim was a great believer in peers. You know he was a very believer in peers. So when When Daud was born, there was a peer called Niraleh Shah Baba. Niraleh Shah Baba told him, Ibrahim, that you will have seven sons, out of which your second son will become very famous, powerful and rich. Now, Ibrahim's mind, this is what he said. So, while the other sons went to regular schools, Daud was put in Ahmed Selar School, which is a convent school.

1:07:33Because the father expected that this is the… This is the child that will be brought to you. So, Kareem Lala was great friends with Ibrahim Kaskar. And in fact, when Daud was born, he had given a davat for the birth of a son. Of course, Sabir was two years older, 1955 born, 1953 born, whereas Daud is 1955 born.

1:08:08So, these boys were growing up. now the oldies who were there

1:08:18also were growing up to take over the reins from the old lot from the old guard and Kareem Lala son? Kareem Lala didn't have a son but even the second marriage he got married to Fauzia I was telling you about Fauzia to get a son but he couldn't get a son so what the next step was Rahim Lala ke char lardke Abdul Rahman Samad Ahmed and Salahuddin Rahim was Karim's brother Rahim Lala was younger brother of Karim Lala so he adopted Rahim Lala's son Samad so Samad became Samad Khan you know Samad the terrible Samad you know you you know a Samad story is Samad became his adopted son. Fatima and this doted on Samad.

1:09:20They pampered him to the hilt. He was in the 7th standard of St. Joseph's school in the house. Samad. And in the school some Christian boys were higher than him maybe 9th standard 10th standard they started bullying Samad. Samad was in the 7th standard He didn't do this, so they beat him up. So Samad normally should have gone to the principal or to his father back when he came home. He didn't say that he left the school. He was running a phone. And Ayub Lala, there used to be, you know, again, there is a big history. Ayub Lala and Syed Batla, these are two tag team teams. Syed Batla was a kokani and Ayub Lala was one of seven brothers from Imam Bada.

1:10:08so he phoned up Ayub Lala Ayub Lala they laid a siege on the school that who is coming out the child showed us who is us so there was panic till the local police station was called and this that all of them and they put their hands and they put their children out of their hands but this was the case I was not going to leave tomorrow I am bringing them again to see who is coming out I will leave them next day the school was empty so that father the principal of the school went to Karim Lala and said you know you know you know this this I have to do school so Karim Lala called Samad 7th standard and said why are you doing this you know he used this he told him that so then you know if I am dying you think I will anyway you know the principal and all told Kareem Lala and this fellow that I will organize those boys and their parents to come and touch his feet say sorry to him please forgive them so forgiveness meet was organized in the school 7th standard boy the parents coming and saying this and you know what I talked to people is to say that the principal used to call him Sabat Bhai 7th standard fellow.

1:11:39So, you know, in this environment, Samad came, he became you know, he got to taste par at a very young age. So, he became arrogant. He, you know, he was crazy. So, he was coming up as a heir to Kareem Lala. And here, Dawud was... Now, Dawud and Sabir, they were in school. In 1966, Ibrahim Kaskar got dismissed, got suspended from service for something. He is a very long job. So these people, that frustration, depression at home, they left school and the streets were welcoming them. And the leadership of the young party came in Daud's hand, Daud and Sabir's hand. and now you know that also is there in my book you know they tried Gulshan a Iran restaurant on Mamad Ali road these fellows used to sell synthetic Indian cloth saying that it is foreign made imported Japanese cloth you know I remember I was in school college there used to be a dress called boski boski and the dress was very in demand so they used to sell this cloth synthetic Indian made synthetic cloth as Japanese so they were selling it one day he was on his hand on his hand and he turned around it was a man a man of the Mastan from from khanwaa he told him that you have this market 80-90 buyers who sell this and it was called MK market all under control of mastan he said that not to come from here I will break it so they retreated from so they tried doing that bunch of things they tried doing everything Till Ibrahim Kaskar Ka ek friend hota tha who is regarded as king of smuggling you know money banks called Rashid Arba his real name was Rashid Bawazir now people say Arba his mother was Arab some say that he was called Arba because of his connections to the very famous Galadhari smuggler and this from this most likely the name Bawazir suggests that he was of Yemeni origin and during the Nizam's time a lot of people from Yemen and all those tribes came and settled down in Hyderabad and this so maybe it was that anyway he was a great Rashid Arba and Ibrahim Kaskar were very good friends because they were great believers in Peers Peers they used to go together and all.

1:14:58Daud, Sabir and all used to call him Rashid Chacha. He's like, you know, the father. He told them, why don't you all get into smuggling? And then Sabir went to Konka and started getting landing spots there. And they got into smuggling. Into smuggling. So Daud and all, smuggling in the sense they

1:15:28smuggling came a little later before that they used to get smuggled goods and sell smuggled goods

1:15:40young Turks are growing up and emergency happens 25th June 1975 till 21st March 1977. Emergency is there. All these big wigs barring Kareem Lala, Haji Mastan, Yusuf Patel, Varda, all these fellows are put behind bars in the emergency. So there is a void created and who is the void? It is these young fellows who are rising in power. coming up there. So, Alam Sehb, Amir Zadha on one side. You have Daud, Sabir on this side. You have Hamid, Majid on one side. And you have Samad. So, this is the young lot which is growing up there. They were all friends. Samad, Alam Sehb, Amir Zadha, Hamid and Majid.

1:16:50but Amid, Majid, Samad they were very good friends there was a Rasna hotel in Churchgate owner's son was one fellow Pinky Pinky and they were this so they were sitting in Churchgate in Rasna after a while the first beer bar in Mumbai was Sonia Mahal Sonia Mahal where girls used to serve first time girls serving then they would go there. Now there was a girl there who Majid liked. One of the dancers who Majid liked. So on that day 13th March they go to Sonia Bhaar Samad Pinky. Pinky is the name of the son of the Rasnawala. And another character called Babu Labacha. These people go to the same time.

1:17:51And Samad is high. Samad, drugs, you know, he was one of the first and only gangster who would wear a bulletproof vest and carry an automatic weapon. You know, stand and whatnot. One of the very unique things. So he went out and started pulling Pinky that you dance with that girl. So Pinky said, you know, typical Bombay. This is our brother. This is Majid's girlfriend. I cannot this. So while they were doing that, Hamid and Majid walked in. And they see the commotion. So as they saw him, Pinky felt that he may be thinking I am dancing with this thing. So they told Hamid and Majid what was happening.

1:18:39So Majid told Samad, Samad, this is a fault of the gree. So Samad came on to Majid and said, So Majid took out his revolver and put it on Samad. He said, I will do this. Now he realized that he got angry. he says you know stop here you guys I will come in a little time Samad came there he saw there was no one there so he said okay I will leave them so Hamid Majid Dilip Aziz used to stay in Chindi Gali in a building called Bachu Ali house so he went to Chindi Gali to search for Hamid and Majid Hamid and Majid were not at home normally normal bandar this fellow was crazy. He kept pacing up and down that gully waiting for them to come.

1:19:41And then from there, that Impala car of Dilip Aziz comes. And Dilip Aziz had taken his wife and daughter to marine drive for ice cream. So he sees Samad there. Now all these Dilip Aziz, Kareem Lala and all have seen all these kids growing up. So they, he asks Samad, what are you doing here? So he starts abusing Hamid Majeed and says that I will not leave him. So he says you go home I will get this thing settled tomorrow. So he starts abusing Dilipaziz. So Dilipaziz also is this. So Dilipaziz abuses him back and says this fellow takes out a sword and puts it into Dilipaziz and kills Dilipaziz there.

1:20:32And then he runs. Then he runs. you know from that place from that place this was in March 1979 it was in 1979 so for 6 months after 6 months I surrendered now Karim Lala who used to manage legal sales how to break all the witnesses how to give money and bribe and all that in 1980 but what happened was now a group formed Daud, Sabir and Hamid Majid together versus Samad versus the Athans Daud got into this visa business you know Gulf visa now the Gulf visa business was a very very very business three people came to get one job but the other two commission and processing fee and those people would go to threaten them.

1:21:37So they needed protection. That protection was provided by Pak Modaya Street by Daud and Sabir. So he said that his money is this. I will do it too. So he tried to abduct some visa fellows. Daud came to know. Daud said that there is no benefit from this. Let me speak to Kareem Lala. so he spoke to Karim Lala so Karim Lala he said Rahim Lala he said he's saying he's saying he's saying he's saying he's saying so they called Samad when Samad realized that they asked me they called for this he got angry he got a revolver he said he said you don't have to say I don't have to say you know I don't have to come so these people thought fortunately he didn't do anything anyway so he did that so Daud and all have come up here.

1:22:33Now what happened was Amirzada, Alamzeb also Pathan's. There is a tacit understanding between them and Samad. But the fight of Samad is with Hamid Majid. Because Hamid Majid now are gunning for Samad for killing their father. 1976 May Sayyad Batla there used to be a journalist you must have heard you know Iqbal Natik he was a journalist he was also from Konkan and that BIT child in that area he used to do this so Syed Batla was a womanizer and his brother Sajid was a pickpocket he started with BIT child gambling etc. This fellow used to sit down there and he used to ogle at women and pass remarks, comments.

1:23:39Who? Saeed Batla. So this fellow started writing against Saeed Batla. He was from Konkan. He was known to Ibrahim Kaskar. He felt that Daoud and Sabir were the lesser of the evils in society. so they became his informants they started giving him information about Sait Batla and this fellow started writing about this he once had a 14-year-old took him to a garden and the public saw he told the public that he was there and he was saved to the girl in that group Iqbal Natik also he had it in the paper so he got angry similarly the caram club used to be actually gambling and liquor. So the police raid him in the caram club.

1:24:36So he thought that it's because he went and killed in 1976.

1:24:46Journalist. Journalist. He killed because of that. He was booked under MISA. so at one time in the jail Dawd Abraham is there you have Amir Zadha Alam Zayb there and you have Saeed Batla so all these three are there now they see that Dawd is getting most favored prisoner treatment maybe because of his father who was there and these people they are not giving any power. Now they felt that our elders have increased to Ibrahim Kaskar. He gave money in his days and this. And you know they owe Kaskar and his sons owe allegiance to us. They should show us the respect. Now Daud felt that they have been taking advantage of my father.

1:25:53he was not giving any respect to them so after seeing this there was some animus which started between Amirzad Alamzeb and Daud and Daud in 1977 as soon as the emergency got over these people were all released on bail the moment they came out on bail before people came to a wedding in the Udiyah, people were going to come and there was a prayer. But after this thing, that cold war started with them. Alam Sef told them, first linchpin is Daoud. If you kill Daoud, this gang will be finished. This gang will not get up. We have said that Daoud is very happy. He will not give a chance. Sabir is a womanizer number one.

1:26:46We'll get this. Alam said, kept telling him no. But then all the rest of the members said, let's go with this. They got hold of Sabir. Sabir was going around with that Chitra girl at Congress house. Daud didn't like it one bit. So on that day, you know, when it happened, 11th February 1981, when it happened, Sabir had fixed up this to take her for a drive. So he told Daud, my mind is getting up, I want to go for a drive. So Daud knew that this is not going to be listening. So there were two people, Kadir Kalia and Sharif Bawa. He said, go with him. Weapons take him. So he sat in the car in the car.

1:27:39Now this fellow is a smart guy, Sabir. He didn't want these people. So he went on the Saifi Jubilee Street. There should be one Imam Shrbatwala. So he went and said, Imam Shrbatwala, I'm going to get this car and he ordered Shrbat. So these people are all standing there. Suddenly he sees one fellow called Shabir. So he said, Shabir, Shabbir, he called him, Sabir. Put his hand around him and walked with him at some distance. Then came back and told these two guards who have been sent by Daug. Where is Shabbir with Shabbir? You have to stay here and I will come. And he put Shabbir in the car and went.

1:28:16And he went on the way to Ghol Deol, which is on Duncan Street. And Shabbir also left. Went and met Chitra. you know Chitra's friend Nanda Nanda Amirzada had put out Nanda and Nanda told one day told this Amirzada you know Chitra is lucky you know she is being taken for drives and all that where did he take drive I said drive he's going to drive who's going to take her boyfriend Sabir this fellow heard he came back and told them he's going for she's going for a drive so they planned at that time also Alam's said don't do it we'll get doubt first but they did not listen they followed and Prabha Devi put on pump they killed this and from that time the gang war was out in the open it became as bloody as nothing seen before you know From there, these fellows went in a car.

1:29:31They went and fired in Daud's Musafir Khana residence. Firing me, Khalid Pellwan fired. Usme, Amir Zadha got injured. They put him in the vehicle. They went from here to Surat. Surat, they couldn't get a doctor. They went to Baroda. Baroda, I got a doctor in private nursing home. Sabeer got saved. So from that time, this whole thing started. The real gang war started. And Daud became the defect to the real head. The earlier Sabeer-Daud gang became the Daud gang. Ami Zad Alamzeb, Dushmani on this side. And then you have Hamid Majid versus Samad on the other side. But did Daud kill them then? Who?

1:30:22Alam Zeb and Peeb Daud tried right from February 81 you know 12th February 81 for 18 months nothing was working Daud couldn't get and Daud's love was that Amir Zadha Alam Zeb they have done this and nothing has and you know people said but what's the dawn that the brother can't take? Till they committed a mistake. Aamirzadha Alamzeb. They were in Gujarat. In Gujarat they had, you know, that very famous gangster Latif. Latif was a card jockey. So Latif started, became their man Friday. Aamirzadha. They started working from, Gujarat. Gujarat. First week of October in Popatya Ward, in Daryapur area of this, Alam Zeb and Amir Zadha were standing.

1:31:37Mohsin gave the call for namaz. Alam Zeb was a very religious fellow. No womanizing, respectful to women. He went to two buildings away. was from Latif's house where these fellows were standing down. He went to say namaz. In the meanwhile, Mumbai police came and picked up. Both of them. Picked up Ameerzada. Okay. Alam Zed has gone two buildings away for namaz. The police does not know this. Then they also arrested later on in the month of November they arrested Jafar Jamal Siddiqui who was also in the car when Sabir got killed. And against the two of them, this trial was going on. Daud was arrested in Gujarat.

1:32:32Plus, once Daud was driving, they say that Alam Seh, he fired and Daud got injured. So when he got injured and taken to the Saiaji Hospital on 13th June 1983, he was taken there. So he got there. Then against him, you know, prevention acts. He hired Mr. Ram Jetmalani. Mr. Ram Jetmalani stood for him and got him out. Daud came out in August 83. So he decided I have to kill them in the court. Now he needs somebody to do it. He thinks at that time, again you'll read in my book how it happened. Rajan Mahadevan Nayar Bada Rajan. He got, came in contact with Daud. Daud told him, will you do it? He said, yes, I will do one lakh of superi.

1:33:36Superi of one lakh of rupees. So he got in touch. Bada Rajan got in touch with Abdul Kunju. Abdul Kunju got David Pardeshi. David Pardeshi went as a lawyer and on 3rd September 1983 Amir Zadha got killed in the court. He got killed in the court. Then subsequently the Pathans took Badla. They killed Bada Rajan on 30th September in 23 days. What happened that the death died? see that is also a big there are so many reasons for that how did he run away when you said that if the police thought that the work was done but then someone who is doing such public killings and public stuff ran away Daud got married on 29th April 1985 he got married now see unlike the Pathan's who never thought of if we will do something then we will run.

1:34:43Daud was like a wolf. The survival instinct in him was very very strong. Now for his marriage on 29th April 1985 when he got married to Mejabeen for the honeymoon he had booked 6-7 hotels and only he knew where he would go. Nobody else knew. Only he knew where. So, you know, he knew this thing is happening. So, that survival instinct was there. And can you imagine on the day of his marriage, 29th April 1985, outside his house in the lane in the Chai Ka Tapri, his very close associate called Asif Manoj. Asif Manoj is the fellow, the first fellow who who opened fire on Samad and killed Samad on 4th October 1984.

1:35:39So the Pathans took revenge and sent the Chenu and got Asim Manoj killed outside his house. Now Dawood realized that now I'm a married person. any you know these fellows either yes up things are getting this he had sent Khalid Pelwan and Anis before his marriage to Dubai to go and search for a place to for him to start business and then he had spoken you know Sayyad Mia you know Sayyad Ahmad he was there Haji Umar these were smugglers at that time He had already spoken to them and they had promised that they would give him work there. So, they had already gone and done it. Now, my assessment. Around that time, there used to be a very dynamic IRS officer called Daya Shankar.

1:36:50Daya Shankar was honest and he was brave. you know he is one fellow who he was driving on marine drive and he saw this silver colored Nissan and in his mind he said you know this silver colored Nissan is a Gujarat smuggling case we have this so he followed this vehicle Anis is driving this vehicle he goes right up to Akhmodaya street and he picks up Anis now Anis and all tell him Daud comes there and tells him you know today our brother Noura is getting married leave him, I'll send him to the office he says no, I'll come to my office then I will decide so he brings them to the office that type of daring person

1:37:37April 1986 the Mumbai police under the supervision of Mr. D.S. Soman Madhukar Zende went and arrested Charles Obraj in Goa so there was a crime conference which was held in which Mr. Soman made it very clear if we can get Sobraj why can't we get Daoud? And he put the pressure on Mumbai police that we have to get Daoud. This information must have reached Daoud. That on one side the police when somebody has taken out the hand plus Daya Shankar is on my case plus they have come right up to my doorstep and killed Asif Banuj. He flew from here. Sometime I have a feeling sometime end mid-May

1:38:361986 or June 1986 he has gone away from here. Do you think he controls something today? Will you leave something for me for my next book? You see by this book when I started writing I wanted to do 100 years of the underworld but ideally it's 40 years of my research but when I started writing there was so much so much so much you know what I've told you is just the tip let's talk about one of your other books as well where you mentioned about Taj attacks 26-11 and there you said there was a conspiracy theory somewhere that Kassab had planned or LED had planned that this was to be termed as a Hindu attack what was it?

1:39:26They all came they had

1:39:31they had Hindu name ID cards you know they wanted it to Pakistan didn't want that name they knew that all of them would die they didn't anticipate that Kassab will be alive and they had all this this would be termed as Hindu terror why? They didn't want that in fact if you the same book that you are talking about in that I have written Indian Mujahideen how the name of Indian how the name came about Indian Mujahideen the Pakistan handlers told these people that you know Riaz Bhatkal and that Asif Atik Sheikh and Sadiq Israr Sheikh these are the three main guys who were handling the Delhi Batla House unit and the Kondwa Pune and the Mangalore unit.

1:40:27The Pakistani handlers told them that, you know, you are doing it, but who knows? Because they used to send one time Al-RB and one time Al-RB and one-Hindi and send an email. They said, no, you do something. And we want some Indian name. So they looked at that Oh, Isaba battalion, regiment, a name for this, a name for this, Furkan, a name for this, one who is able to discern between Huck and Patil, right and wrong. In the end, they came to this, what is all the Indian name? Because our handlers in Pakistan wanted that India, they came up with the name Indian Mujahideen. So, Pakistan wanted to show that they are not doing anything you know this is all homegrown that's why they did that and you found that out through your research and investigation at that time in the investigation we found the ID cards no we found the ID cards we found Kasab Kasab himself mentioned this is what we were told this is the cards you people have to carry they all had that red thread tied around their hands all that was there and what was Kassab's name then if he would have died as per the plan he he took a name of somebody in Bangalore you know this was I think Samir Choudhury I think the name was Samir Choudhury that is the name that he took and we were because talking about underworld and you also handled a case of Gulshan Kumar but in your there's a statement where did you say right that they probably knew before or they gave a warning what happened see I told you working in the crime branch the bomb blast and all I developed a good network of informants so sometime I think 22nd of April 1996 22nd of April 1996 late in the night I get a call hmm

1:42:46I said, who is going to be a wicket?

1:42:54Then he told me, you know, Abu Salim is doing this, he is going to go to the shiv mandir and as he goes out, he is going to be able to get out of it. I said, I have got some information to tell me. I got this information. It must have been around 2-3 in the morning. I couldn't sleep. You know, my wife, you know, she saw me sitting on after the call and she was used to all this happening. She asked me what happened. I said, no, somebody is going to be killed. So she, very matter of fact, please told me why don't you inform somebody. I said, yeah, I'll do that. So in the morning at around 6.37 I phoned up Mahesh Bhatt.

1:43:35and I told Mahesh but do you know Gulshan Kumar he says yeah I'm directing a film for him I said you tell him not to leave his house he's just ask him if he goes to a Shiv Mandir and tell him not to leave the house today I'm speaking to crime runs some protection will be provided to him a little while I said Mahesh Bhatt I said yes everyday he goes to the Shiv Mandir so I told him tell him not to leave the house. I spoke to the crime branch. I had finished my tenure of DCP detection. It's after 96. I was from 92 to 96 start. So I phoned them up and I told them something like this is going to happen.

1:44:19Immediately, protection give. So protection was provided to him. Then I forgot about it. Till August, I come to know that Gulshan Kumar has been shot dead outside the Shiv Mandir. I was shocked. I said, what's going on? He was provided protection. Then information came to me that Mumbai police gave protection. But he had a huge factory in Noida. Super cassettes or whatever it is, factory was in Noida. to Noida, UP police had provided him a big contingent of guards. They were there with him. Over a period of time, you know, people feel that this information didn't happen until April. It was also August.

1:45:09So the lethargy kicks in. Sets in. Sloth comes in. You know, so some festival was there. I don't know which festival. with his holy some festival was there and his bodyguards and all said that we are going to the house so he said okay you know you don't have anything and without a guard he came and he was killed there and when when did underworld completely got away from Bombay see it would be wrong on my part or any police officer's part to say that the underworld does not exist it exists today It does. They are into SRA, into other big projects. What is SRA? Slum Rehabilitation. In slum rehabilitation and all that, they are into that.

1:46:08Today's underworld in Mumbai is Lawrence Vishnui and company. Are they big? Lawrence Vishnui and this, you know. In fact, I was thinking that when I'm going to write my next book, I have to now do research on Lawrence Vishnoy and company Balkaran Brar alias Lawrence Vishnoy Goldie Brar How did they come into picture? See there is some similarity between them and the Daud group coming in in the sense how they came up it is extortion it is extortion Of course, amongst the Vishnui community, they believe in Guru Jambeshwar. Guru Jambeshwar, he has given 29 core principles out of which protection of wildlife, environment, devotion to nature.

1:47:12Among the 29, this is there. In 1998, it was a black buck case. In 2018, it was a five-year conviction in Yodhpur court. So from 2018 onwards, I think, this fellow, Lawrence Bishnoe, the first threat he gave was in 2018. He has given it in the car. He has given it. So, you know, it is with this. Again, you know, this gang came up When the drug menace increased in Punjab, it came from 2015 till today, if I'm not mistaken, nearly 20 cases, 20 murder cases have happened. When the Punjab film industry and the Punjab music industry, there is a boom. So they have tried to enter that similar what thou then all films may this, because if there is somewhere to launder money, somewhere to knock out black money they come in there I have not done much research on that so I would not be in a position to but do you think that crimes are rising again this kind of organized crimes in underworld and all of these things are coming back see new gangs would definitely you know you people wait for an opportunity so you know my advice to the present day police would be just just nip this thing before it becomes you know same thing which happened with Daud you know the police thought he will be able to control the and threw him the son and suddenly one day you realize that Frankenstein has become so big that it's you know we had put him out to for the other fish he's become a man eater himself you were there in Bombay during 1993 Bombay blast Mumbai blast what was Badshah Khan's role in this?

1:49:13Badshah Khan was present in every facet of the conspiracy. He was there at the time of landing. He is there at the time of conspiracy meetings. He is there at the time of putting the explosives in the car. He is there to go and place the vehicle there. So, you know. He helped you solve this case. help me means he became an approver what does it mean approver means somebody from the gang who says I will I will cooperate and tell you I would like to cooperate with the prosecution how did you approach him what happened who how did you see every accused was interrogated by me so there is no question to approach I have spoken to every accused.

1:50:09189 we arrested. 189 accused we arrested. So I have interrogated each. See, I, you know,

1:50:20I had a weakness for interrogation. Nothing gave me more satisfaction than this. I remember when I was DCP detection, I had requested my bosses then, I don't want promotion for the rest of my life. let me remain a DCP detection I just want to detect crime I want to interrogate tell me how do you play mind games so that you open up other people what is a tactic that you use so this thing comes through experience it's nothing which is inborn or this you need before you come in for interrogation you need to do a lot of study on who you are interrogating what are you looking for What could be this man's connection to the case?

1:51:10What do you suspect him of? And around that, you build your this. And, you know, most important, I feel a person can lie through his teeth, but he cannot lie from the eyes. No matter what you are saying, your body language, your other thing, but the only part of your body which cannot lie is your eyes. You see, 400 odd pages, you know, you can't, When I started writing, you know, I suddenly realized the material is so much. I'll not be able to do justice. What I've spoken to you today is just the tip of what I've written in the book. It's not possible to write there. You know, you'll have to wait for the second book.

1:51:52Well, thank you so much. My pleasure entirely. Thank you for having me over. Thank you so much for doing this. It was a pleasure having you. My pleasure entirely. Hello, sir. It worked very good Absolutely It was the time of the day But I would have made it earlier Driver missed one You went ahead But as you turn You have to take the left Then it took me about 2-3 minutes more To cover up Not that bad It's okay It's okay It's okay Traffic in Mumbai is very much Thank you so much for watching this episode end to see you Now you know what you have to do First of all, subscribe to this channel so that we can get valuable guests Number 2 Tell us what you like this episode and what you like to see and what guests you want to see we have to put this episode and this episode you have to share with someone and share this episode which you can change in your life in this video, you will get a chance to change something better from this.

1:53:02Because one conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.