252. How to Build a Business That Lasts with Carrie Kerpen

23:15Financial Feminist Host:Done was better than perfect. And I just decided, you know what, we're just going to launch this thing and I'll figure it out as I go. That was it. And you probably removed judgment from yourself. You know, I think it's so much it's, it's, we, we sit and judge ourselves in a way that is so damaging. If I look at every aspect of my business, I say, Oh, that's not good enough. That's not, you know, it's, it's totally self-defeating in every single way. And so it's also identity driven, Carrie too, because you can fail and men for the most part just go, oh, I failed or that didn't work out. But women internalize it.

23:53Financial Feminist Host:We go, I am a failure. I failed. So therefore I am a failure as opposed to that didn't work out. What did I learn? We're going to keep moving. It's also, yeah, you're exactly right. Identity being tied to what we do is a whole thing. So like, you know, I sold a business that I ran for 14 years. Like I was Carrie, the CEO of likable. I got married on a baseball field and started this business. And here we are. And then all of a sudden I sold it. And I was like, who the fuck am I? Like, who am I now? Like, I have to be a whole new person. And so the idea that we attach ourselves to who we are in any given moment, to what we do, that our worth is tied up in what we do is a whole other ballgame.

24:34I mean, that's forget it.

24:35Financial Feminist Host:I think before we transition to talking about the sale of that business and all of that, in your book, you talk about walking people through finding their secret sauce. And again, this is where you have to discover what or why you uniquely are set out to do this particular thing. So what are like two specific things our listeners can do today to start uncovering what their secret sauce is? If they already have a business or when they're figuring out to start their business, I can figure out to start the business. Let's do that first. Figuring out to start what, What do you when you are doing something professionally, where do you feel at your best?

25:18And like it's effortless. Where do you feel like you're in the zone? Like, what is that moment? That's the internal. Where do you feel? And then think about really what do people tell you you're also great at, which is external validation, which typically I tend to avoid external validation. But I do think it's good to see what people notice on the positive, what you're really good at and see how well that matches up with what gives you joy, what gives you that spirit, what gives you that boost. And then the last thing that I would say, I actually like when we talk about confidence and we talk about competence, right?

25:58What we need to do. I always go for the MVC, which is like the minimum viable competence. Like when I was when I was after I sold my business and I was like, OK, I'm going to start a new career. I was like, OK, I'm going to go into helping women build sellable businesses. And I was like, OK, I did it myself. Do I really feel confident enough to have other people do it? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, but I'd like a little but a little tiny bit more than me. So what should I do? So I got certified as like an exit planning advisor. And I was like, OK, in that moment, it validated what I already knew. Like I did a very small like I walked into the class and I was like, I know all this shit.

26:39And then I felt so much better. Like I was like, oh, my God, look, I'm validated by this experience. So I look for what is the minimum viable competence you need to be able to take that leap? Because there's, you know, competence is a good thing. It's good to have competence. But it's way, way more important for us right now to focus on the confidence to just take that leap. So I like to pair up minimum viable confidence with just really where you are in your zone of genius.

27:07Financial Feminist Host:My last question for you for folks who want to be business owners. You mentioned in this conversation that you're risk averse, which I know is something a lot of people who want to be entrepreneurs resonate with. Yes. Because I think typically we see that entrepreneurs are comfortable with risk or we interpret that they're comfortable with risk. How do you work through that trepidation you feel? I feel it and I do it anyway and I journal the shit out of it. I mean, Tori, this is it doesn't go away. I want I really want to be clear for anyone who is struggling with that financial anxiety or risk aversion.

27:50OK, so I built up that business. I it was extremely profitable. It was an eight figure business that I sold for eight figures. It doesn't go the anxiety or the risk aversion. It doesn't go away. And the reason is that it is rooted in a lot of your childhood shit and a lot of things that go well. The money feelings about money are almost never truly financial. Almost never. almost never I mean you you you know this you know this and like it's crazy and I I think um for me a lot of the times I always think like I had this I've done a lot of thinking on this and where some of my stuff comes from and it's it's risk aversion and it's also from the time that I was young I was very very generous always like I always love to buy people things and do things and I think that some of my fear around money and this listen to this how fucked up this So hopefully your listeners can get so deep is that if I don't have money, I can't be as generous as I want to be.

28:55If I can't be as generous as I want to be, what happens? People might not like me. And that is where my money shit comes from. Like that is truly, truly crazy making stuff.

29:09Financial Feminist Host:No, but that's almost every woman listening to this show right now. It is. It is. It's absolutely insane. And so the point being, it doesn't go away. It just shifts and morphs. You learn to take more risks, but you always have it within you. So just know it. I just wrote down, you're not risk adverse. You just don't trust yourself. That's right. That's right. It's so funny that you just said that because I think last night I wrote this. I was doing this journaling program thing that I've been working on. And I wrote the opposite of anxiety is trust. Like, I just wrote that down. Like, all of that anxiety that I can feel sometimes, like, if I just trust, whether it's, first of all, believe in myself, believe in, you know, in all the things, it's true.

29:57It's a real antidote. I mean, it's trust is it.

30:00Financial Feminist Host:But so if you're running a business, I think something that starts to happen as you keep going is that a lot of business owners start feeling disconnected from their why. Can you share an example of what that might look like? And then how do we reconnect to why we're doing this? Yeah. So I think why is the single most important question that we're going to ask when we're looking at our businesses and what we're doing and how. with my own why when we started. So as I mentioned, after the wedding, do it again. Yay. We start a word of mouth company becomes a social media agency. It starts growing really, really quickly.

30:41OK, one of the first social media agencies in existence. Fortune 500 companies calling us. We have no business working with Fortune 500 companies. We were babies and trying to figure it out. So we're growing this company starts to become really big. Dave, my husband, is like, you know know what? I want to launch a tech company. I want to go take more risks. I was like, okay, go try this. And I will focus on how to make this little agency profitable and give us some money because we were operating. This is the other thing that people don't realize when you're growing a business quickly and you work with things like fortune 500s, they take a very long time to pay.

31:20You have to hire staff. You have to do all the things and all it was not like massively cash producing yet. And so in that moment, my why became survive, right? As we learned how to grow, and as I focused on like, I was very focused on like how to make that thing profitable and how to grow it to sell and all that. I realized that I was very disconnected from that business. Like it just wasn't what was fueling my soul. It didn't feel aligned with who I was. And so in being disconnected from that, I immediately said, Oh, crap, I need to sell this business, right? Because that's what you I need to get out.

32:04And what I realized in that process was that I was kind of trapped, like I had built this business, and it was big. And it was, it ended up providing a very healthy income for our family. And I was sitting there and the prospect of selling it was so scary, but like, I needed a way to be able to get out. And when I was looking at my why it was like, what's, what's what, if I sold it, what would I do? Like what, if I'm so misaligned, like who am I and where am I going? And it wasn't until I got really clear about what I wanted to do next that I was able to successfully sell the business. It was, otherwise it just, when you're there's, it's very hard when you own a business, you start a business, you think you're so excited, you build it, then you're done with it.

32:50Then you're like, what the heck do I do with it? And it was like just really malaligned and or sometimes we set out with big dreams like I want to make a fuck ton of money, this, that, the other. But if you can't articulate to me why, then something's off. Like why and how much and why and getting through and really to like the number, the reason behind the number and where you want to get to. That's another area that I work with founders on a lot.

33:13Financial Feminist Host:I want to touch on something you just said, which is like my why was I just need to make money or I want to make a fuck ton of money. Again, I can I can hear the listeners brains going my why if I'm a business owner has to be some sort of moral good. No, right. It has to be I'm saving puppies from the shelter. I am donating 98 % of my profits to cancer research. Like, I hope if you've listened to this show enough, you know that, quote, make a fuck ton of money is a great reason to have that's that's a why that's why enough. You don't have to apologize for it. But how do we run businesses that both feel values aligned while we're also like, yeah, I want this to be fucking huge.

34:03Financial Feminist Host:When we come back from a word with our sponsors, we'll dig into the loneliness of entrepreneurship, why women don't always take the same risks as men, and what kind of support makes the difference between burning out and building something that lasts. We appreciate you listening to the ads as they allow us to do this show for free for you.

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37:00Oh, so make no mistake. I love money and I love to make a fuck ton of money. And my whole mission at my company now is to close the exit gap, which exists, which is that when women are selling their businesses, they sell them for less. But my whole mission in life is to make women more money. One thing that is really, really important is when you're building a business, that it has solid business fundamentals, that when you're looking at the profit, you're basing it in a space that's real for the business and building real, real goals that help you get to where you are. So for me, it's about, okay, I want to make a fuck ton of money because I want to be able to not be tied to anyone, right?

37:44We talked about freedom in that way. I would very much like to get to a point, and I'm unapologetic about it, that I'm at fuck you money. The question is, how much money is fuck you money? And that number, by the way, is different for everybody. It's different based on where you live. If you have kids and extra family in your life that are dependent upon you, what your lifestyle is. So for me, what I like to do with founders is get really clear on what they want and sort of really being able to articulate why they want it, not because they need to apologize, really because I want them to have and get exactly what they want and then plan backwards to get there.

38:23Like I think about like, I set out that vision for what I wanted to do. And then I went for it and planned backwards to get there. And that's, that's sort of how I was able to do it.

38:34Financial Feminist Host:Well, in the same theme or the same vein is that you've said that we need to stop thinking of our companies as like lifestyle businesses, I would also lump like, oh, it's just a hobby into that. Like you said, you, we need to start thinking of them as assets. So what does that unlock for us when it stops being a lifestyle company or a hobby and starts being an asset? Yes. So first of all, my relationship with the word lifestyle business is complicated because I think every business is technically a lifestyle business. You're just choosing your damn lifestyle. That's it. But I think that if you're looking at, you know, the way we look at our businesses, you know, when we look at there was a study done that looked at businesses that were sold over a 10 year period, 1 % were female founded.

39:25And the reason that is, is not that we're starting businesses less. We're actually starting businesses at twice the rate of the population growth, okay? We are starting businesses, but we truly don't think of them, many of us, as anything other than hobbies or something to get us through child-rearing years or a side hustle or a whatever the heck it is, and we're not looking at them as assets. Now, for me, I look at every business, whether or not I want to sell it. I don't give a damn if you ever want to sell a business. I look at every single business as an asset, which means you're building this thing.

40:06If it is something that could be transferred to somebody else, it has value beyond what it's making you today. And every single business, I don't care if you are a coach or a solopreneur or baking cookies or wherever you are, every single business can be transferable. And when I look at businesses that you build, and I look at how businesses are valued, it changes the whole way you run something. So in other words, if you run a business that's $500 ,000 a year, and off of that business, you make$100 ,000 a year, right? You bring it home. If you transfer that business, you will be paid a multiple of that$100 ,000 without having to work all of the years it would take to do that.

40:51And when this number gets bigger, your multiple gets exponentially bigger. So when we have a shift, even if you never want to sell it, even if you think I'm batshit, like if you build it so that you can sell it, then when you get that moment of either, oh shit, I really don't like doing this anymore, or God forbid, something happens to you or your family and you need a change or you get a divorce or you have something where this needs to be sold, you're able to do it. And that for me, it's all about my key motivators, definitely freedom, because it's about it's about making sure that women have the freedom to get out when they need to.

41:32It's about, you know, making sure that they don't have anyone controlling them. And sometimes when you leave work and you start a business, it feels like the business controls you, you know? And so it's, it's all, it's all freedom all the time.

41:44Financial Feminist Host:Carrie, how do we determine the difference between I want to sell my business and burnout? I mean, ideally, almost always when you're crying and you want to sell your business, it's burnout. Everyone who calls me is like, I'm done. I want to sell my business. If you, if you, and that's okay. It's okay. It's just not ideal. I love this business. And dear listeners, I can tell you fully transparently, I have had the in a literal closet, like crying moments of like, I'm fucking done. Now, was I done? No, but I felt that way. Right, right. So like there you have to be able to evaluate what is a moment and what feels more like a movement.

42:27Like it's it should feel there's two ways that I like to know if like you're really ready to be done versus like just being burned out. One is like you've you're on a up and you're like, you know what? This business is beautiful and it's right. It could go to a new home. It could like in a space of calm of like really being in that space. And the other one is just you've extracted the value that you feel like a lot of people are able to extract the monetary value that they need from the business. And then they want to like find it a good home. Like those are great. If you are burnt out and want to sell, there's no shame in that.

43:03It's just really good to get it to a space. That's why I like to think about making a business sellable before you ever think about wanting to sell it.

43:12Financial Feminist Host:Okay. So what are the first signs that a business is ready to move from like scrappy and stable to scalable and sellable? Okay. So scalable is an interesting word because I'm very big on like bootstrap businesses that just steadily build and don't need like, you know, massive capital infusions to give up your equity and blah, blah, blah. It's like not my bag. So for me, I think it's once you have product market fit, you have a monetization model, you know how much you make off of what you sell, right? Like you have a good idea of like that profit margin, et cetera, and you feel good. And then you're ready to test stuff.

43:55Like you get it to a space where enough people have tested this and you've learned and you get it to a space where it's making some money. And then you think, okay, am I ready to take some of that money? And if this is hard to do because we're a raised in scarcity and B we like money. So we're going to take some of that money and bet on it. So like if you, you're, let's say you've started a consulting business and you are loving it or an interior design business, You're loving it. You're great. Make a good living. You know, you know, your cost is right. You know, it's all good. And now you want it to be bigger.

44:31Maybe you want to invest in ads. Maybe you want to bring out a partner. Maybe you want, you know, it could be a million things you want to do. Once you have an understanding of the profit, you take that risk and test. And the biggest thing that I have learned is just don't be afraid to fail. So lots of tests fail. I mean, I've tested a million things in both businesses and they failed. and then some have like been huge wins and you just don't know until you try.

44:56Financial Feminist Host:You talk about that not all revenue is created equal and I could not agree more with that. Yes. So what should listeners look for in their revenue to know that it's healthy and scalable versus revenue that's keeping them trapped? Okay. I wish I had a glass of wine with me because I would explain it. I have an analogy in the book that talks about keeping your revenue red. So normally we like to be in the black, not red. But red means that your revenue is recurring. So whether it's retainer based, subscription based, any of those things, or you have customers that repeat and you understand that.

45:30So recurring, expected, you're able to forecast with relative ease where you're going to be. And like, OK, we know generally it doesn't have to be exact, but it should be, you know, we have a good idea, recurring, expected. And then the last piece is diversified. So you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. You don't want to put all your eggs in one sponsor, one client, one, you know, one anything, really one product. You know, you want to make sure that you have an ability to really diversify that acts as a safety net. So I always say, keep your income red, recurring, expected and diversified.

46:05That makes me feel really good because I'm doing all of those things.

46:08Financial Feminist Host:I know you are. I know you are. I'm so proud of you. It's also something that the forecasting bit, again, if you are someone who wants to start a business or in the early stages of business ownership, you're like, what do you mean forecasting? You don't know. You can't do that. I'm telling you that you can get to a point. I know with pretty darn close accuracy what the business is going to make. We're recording this July 2025. I could tell you what it's going to do in December of this year. I could tell you January. I could tell you July of next year. And I only know that because I've been in business now a couple years.

46:43Financial Feminist Host:And I understand if there's seasonality. I understand if we're promoing things. July is also a unique thing because we always do a birthday sale because it was my birthday last week. So that's predictable. So those are the things that, again, if you are a newbie business owner or somebody who wants to be a business owner, you're going, well, I can't do forecasting. I can't determine what's going to happen a year from now. So I can't be a business owner. No, this is the kind of thing that you learn while running the business. And I would say 98 % of the shit that I know is because I learned it while running the business.

47:17Absolutely. And my other thing that I say all the time, so very interesting because I launched this, I've been in this business, which is the whisper group for like a year. And the thing that I keep saying is that my biggest lesson from this, cause I've had, I built totally from scratch again, as long as you think it's going to take you it takes longer even if you're a fast-growing business like it just like you gotta like it takes a while you've got to test and learn it's you gotta play you've got to do all of that and just just like don't beat the crap out of yourself when you don't you're not able to forecast immediately don't beat yourself up if you have one big client in the beginning if that's what helps you start it's great what is the most

48:04Financial Feminist Host:common mistake that you see women make in trying to grow and then eventually exit their business? Well, the biggest mistake I see in exit, I'll go backwards. The biggest mistake in exit is selling when you are totally burnt out and depressed and on a low. If you want to be able to go out before you need to, it's just like a credit line, you know, I don't know if we talk about this on the show, but apply for a credit line when you don't need one, not when you need one, because when you need when it's harder to get. I have a whole story with that. But you want to sell when you're on the up, when you're feeling good.

48:37Your value will be exponentially better. So waiting too long. And the biggest mistake when growing their businesses, I think for women, it's not taking enough risk. I know for me it was. I mean, when I look at what I would have done differently with Likeable, I would have bought a couple of small agencies. I could have done amazing things if I I did that. And by the way, when you buy some of these businesses, like you don't even have to put that much cash down. Like, why was I afraid to do that? Why was I so afraid? But I was, I definitely was. Wouldn't have gone on my radar.

49:09Financial Feminist Host:I think acquisition is one that's really interesting. I don't want to spend too much time talking about it, but I think that you and I should talk offline because it's something that I've been considering seriously over the past year or two. But I think that it's those sorts of things where, again, it's so easy to play small and just be like, okay, I'm just going to focus on what I'm doing and focus on trying to scale the thing. And it's like, yeah, sometimes risk does look like, are there other businesses I can buy or reinvest in? Is there something else I can be doing that again, requires maybe more money than I thought I could negotiate with?

49:47Financial Feminist Host:How do we get to the point where we feel like, yes, this business is worth investing in. I'm worth investing in. I am worth making this work, even if it does cost money, even if it does mean I fail publicly, even if it does mean that my ego's bruised time and time again. How do we get to that point? Okay. So one of the reasons that I built my next business was exactly this. I built the whisper group based on everything that I wished I had. So things I wished I had. I wish I had somebody who had done what I did similar, but had taken risks and shown me that it was possible when I was selling. I wish I had someone who had sold their business.

50:33I was looking for women who had sold their businesses, who had taken it across the finish line. And so what I would say is that with these things, it is so important to find someone who has done this before. find somebody who will advise you when you're ready to take some of those risks in any capacity. We have it at the whisper group on growth, but there are many, many ways you can do this. The fourth effect helps you form advisory boards. There's all women like great, brilliant, brilliant companies do this. You need to have the difference between like you're talking about real growth. Now, do you invest?

51:12Like, does if when I look at you and say, oh, my God, what you've done is amazing, like how far you could go. I want you talking to people who have built some real big shit because you have built really something special and different and huge. And so I want I need people who if you're going to take risks, I want you to have really good insight from people who've done that on a bigger, even bigger scale if possible. So I do that all the time with like agencies that are the I'm helping all of these women acquire all these women marketing agencies acquire other women owned marketing agencies, which are a win win for everyone and help them grow.

51:53It's like a healing experience for me because it's everything I wish I did, but didn't because I didn't have that support. So I think support wherever you get it is critical from people who've done it before.

52:06Financial Feminist Host:That brings me to something I didn't expect to talk to you about. I'm ready. The loneliness of entrepreneurship, like at every stage, the, I want to start this and my parents don't support it or my husband doesn't support it or my high school friends make fun of me posting on social media, which by the way, get fucking new friends. um but then you know uh as someone who has grown a business that continues to do well uh there is you know the phrase the like the higher you climb what is it but like well I don't know the higher you climb the less people you have to talk to I don't know that's right right the thinner the air yeah yes thank you but you know the old phrase the higher you climb the less people.

52:50Financial Feminist Host:But like, I think every aspect or every stage of starting running, growing, exiting a business can feel extremely lonely, especially if you're a woman, especially I think if you're a woman of color where you're like, who else has done this? Like, who else will talk to me about it? Because marginally, you just have a smaller sample size of people who can talk to you. And the network, the network. Right. The thing is, men have these fucking conversations on the golf course all the time. All the time. They all have like all the time. So who do we go to talk to? I mean, I had fallen into this business with Dave, like, you know, and it was great.

53:34And then he went to build something else. And then there I am at a table surrounded by men on the largest transaction of my lifetime. And I literally was like, I don't know if I have anyone to go to. And it felt it. I never felt more alone in my life. And I had a lot of paid professional support there. And so for me, it's about people who get entrepreneurship and it's providing access to those networks of people that you don't realize. Like it's it's unfathomable to me what of course men have done this successfully forever. Of course, ninety nine percent of the dollars that exit, go to men. And same thing with VC and everything else.

54:15It's like they have access to things that we haven't. And yet this is the biggest time in history that women are starting businesses. We are saying, fuck it. We really are because it's intolerable because it's truly intolerable. And so if we just had those networks, what might we be able to do? It's really lonely. I get it.

54:37Financial Feminist Host:What would an exiting founder say to someone who is just starting their business? Oh, my God. They would say, stick with it. They would say, refine your, I know that it takes time. They would say, I'm proud of you. They would say, I'm proud of you. And just keep going. Like, I always talk about this, Tori. The difference between a successful entrepreneur and an unsuccessful entrepreneur is really like time and commitment to that act. Like if you stick with it and are in it, you'll iterate, you'll find it, you'll get there. It's really about the commitment to the act of having this business. That business might morph, it might change, etc.

55:27But sticking with it and having the fortitude to do it, because it's just so hard, is lonely and you're making money out of thin air. You're like making it up as you go. You know, it's, it's really hard. So in the beginning, it's just sticking it out. If you can, if you can make it and you can produce, you know, income and get there, you can make it the first five years, you're going to be good. Like you just, you know, the, those first five years are really, really hard. It's hard. Yeah. Okay.

55:55Financial Feminist Host:I can't let you go without talking the exit gap because it's, you know, less than 1 % of all exits are female led. You said that. And when women do exit, they earn significantly less. I'm not going to ask you like, why do you think this gap exists? Clearly sexism and lack of resources and all of that, but like, are there concrete ways we can close it? Yeah. Yeah, there are. Actually, there's some really promising recent data about female founders being focused on exit readiness. So I think, I mean, yes, it's sexism. Yes, it's, It's the patriarchy. It's all the things. But it's also that we start businesses that are more primarily bootstrapped.

56:31And so we don't realize that it's an option. This is all about education. If we realize and we recognize that these businesses, these lifestyle businesses can become life-changing assets, you can run that lifestyle business. You can make your money. You can raise your family on your own schedule without any push. You don't need to be pushing because you don't have investors. You're doing it at your own pace. And when you're done, you can then extract some value for your hard work. I mean, I don't think people know it. But the data recently, what I saw is from a Wells Fargo report, I think. And I will actually send this to you for show notes.

57:11But it talked about that women are more focused on exit readiness than ever before. And that's what I like to see. I mean, I really try and measure. I'm trying to do the exit gap study as often as I can because I just compile all that data. But I just saw that and that like warmed my heart a little because I think it's it's really a lot of it on closing the gap. You're never really going to close the gap if the fundraise. You're not going to close the gap on amount. If fundraising is still a two percent. Right. For FEMA. OK. Then these giant behemoths. But I don't care so much about the giant.

57:44I mean, good for them. It's amazing. I don't care about the big funded behemoths. I care about the woman who is starting up with no capital and like figuring it out and getting through and building, whether it's a professional services business or starting a media company or doing any of those things. I think all of those women can get educated. And I think you will see a mass boom on those types of exits.

58:08Financial Feminist Host:The exit gap is real. Women are still exiting at far lower rates and for far less money than men. So when we come back, Carrie shares practical tips that every business owner can take to make their company more valuable, even if you're nowhere near selling. She also talks me through a personal pain point I deal with when running her first 100K, plus the one piece of advice she wishes she could go back and give herself in 2007.

58:36Financial Feminist Host:I wouldn't be surprised to hear too that one of the reasons women are exiting at the rate men are is the ownership we have over the business of the like this is our baby or I think that again so many women especially like I think all the time could I exit from this business like and I know you're going to tell me yes. But like one, just like the emotional of like, how do I give up, not control in a control freak way, but like, how do I not, how do I not make decisions about this business anymore? How do I like step away and have separation? But also too, like, I think people are largely here at her HFK for me.

59:14Financial Feminist Host:Like people listen to financial feminist for me. And if somebody else hosts this show, I don't think it works the same way. And I think a lot of women are building, yes, lifestyle, but like lifestyle or influencer-y type businesses where the trust is built with that one person. So prove me wrong. Okay. Okay. Well, I have two answers for you, Tori. I have two different answers for you there. So what you're talking about is how do you build a business when you're a person? How do you build an exitable business? How do you sell a business when you're a personality? Which is, you are a media personality.

59:48Of course you are. and you have built a business that, from what I've seen and would hope to see, goes far beyond just your personality because you have systems and all of the things that you do and have and da-da-da, but you are correct that people still want you. So if I work with some, when I talk to someone like you, when I'm giving someone like you advice, first of all, I would pair you with somebody who really has been in your shoes. But in your case, you have sort of two options. One, you could say, fuck this I'm going way beyond I'm bringing in other personalities under me and I'm having a full-on media company right which you can a hundred percent you requires investment requires thinking require a lot of stuff like that we've or yeah it's sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't it's it's but just because you tried that once might mean um that you know we didn't try it

1:00:43Financial Feminist Host:well yeah right I would do it differently now if we were really investing in that again yep Two, you separate and spin off some of the systems and mechanisms and any schools or things that you have. You build out some things that are sort of like they're connected, but they're separate from you, the person. That's another area. Third is you run it as you have it now. You make a ton of money. and when you sell which you can do somebody's gonna have to pay you a fuck ton for you to do it now the idea is you extract so much that you then don't care you want to be in the space where you have taken out so much that you don't care if you sell it and that is when you will sell it for a lot.

1:01:37Financial Feminist Host:So I'm not going to say who it is, but I have a good friend who sold their name and stays on as like brand director. Yep. Yep. Brand director. Great. And if they pay you enough, sounds great. And sometimes, sometimes when I sold, I worked, I worked for the acquirer for three years and sometimes they, they were a good acquirer, but sometimes they would say some stuff to me where I was like, wrong. You know, they would say, okay, you're going to go in this I've been wrong, no, wrong. And then I would say, they paid me a lot of money for them to be wrong. It's fine. They're right. They earn that right.

1:02:11Financial Feminist Host:Less practically. Like you just gave me a great practical answer, which I appreciate from the mindset point. Right. And whether I'm using me as a Guinea pig, I'm not going anywhere, anybody. No, no, no. So let's, let's reassure. But like, how do I, if somebody comes in and they're like, we're going to do this, how do I not go? I'm sorry, that's not going to work. That's not going to work. And I need to do it. And like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like, how do you not do that? Well, that's the reason that a lot of people don't stay on. I mean, people, entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs and they just are not happy often after they sell in terms of like working for somebody else.

1:02:44It's very hard to do. So you need to find an acquirer. See, the idea is you get the business and you get your own personal finances in a place that when you sell, you get to choose what you want. Choose your own adventure. And for me, that's my biggest wish. I actually talk about this all the time. So I used to talk about one of my quotes on my website was like, I want women to have as much money as possible or something very generic, you know, which I do. But I changed it actually to be that I want happy, healthy exits because the reality is if you have a happy, healthy exit, the money comes, the money's a part of it.

1:03:23But I want people not selling their souls to people who will, you know, take over and shit all over their stuff. The other thing you said, though, before, which is my business, it wasn't really about you. But you're saying women think about this, my business is my baby. That is all about the identity part that we talked about earlier. It's that our identity is tied up in these businesses. And you got to divorce that you know, it's like it's a part of who you are, but it is not the entirety of who you are. It's not.

1:03:50Financial Feminist Host:What is one thing a business owner could do this week to make their company more valuable, even if they're nowhere near selling it. You want something tiny and practical? Give me tiny and practical and big and exciting. Okay. One thing that you could do to make your business, this actually so works for your audience. Go through your freaking business credit cards and your subscriptions. You talk about that. I think you work with Rocket Money, but like go through, look at all the itemized things there and just get rid of shit you don't need. every so when you sell, you're worth a multiple of your profit, usually.

1:04:27So think about like, let's say you're worth eight times every dollar you save could be eight on a payout. So like really focus on your profit. That is like the most practical. The biggest one I could say to be more exit ready is Oh, think about who would acquire you and go go to coffee with them or virtual coffee. Like just, just start conversations early. Like who's someone in your space that you admire? Who would you love? Just want to just want to hang out, say hi, you know, stay on each other's radar so that 10 years down the line, when you're ready to do this, you have a relationship with them.

1:05:04I should have done that. I should have sold to hello sunshine. I did not. I didn't even think it would be possible. I would have been a good acquisition for them. And I never thought it was possible. I know. And I should have called them and I, you know, it's, but instead I just, you a great acquisition. I know. Yeah.

1:05:20Financial Feminist Host:But you know, and it's also too, even if you never sell, or even if you never sell to them, it gets you in the mindset of thinking long-term about the business, which is your job as CEO is to start thinking you're not going to have everything. You're not going to foresee everything. Right. But like, I have a general idea of where I'd like us to be in three years. I have a general idea of that. And so you start figuring that out through conversations. Okay. My last question. If you could go back and whisper, pun intended, something in your own ear, circa 2007 with 10K in the bank and a dream, what would that be?

1:05:56Okay. I would whisper in my ear the same thing I have said over and over to myself as someone who has struggled with anxiety and all of it, which is Carrie. Worry is a misuse of the imagination. Just one step at a time, go forward. It's a misuse of a, this is in my, when I look at myself, I think like really in there is a brilliant mind. Like I know it, I know what I'm able to do. And like all of that big, beautiful brain energy being spent on worrying. It's just a misuse of my time. And if I could say it or I learned it later, actually learned it when my dad was sick, but I, I, and I carried it through in business.

1:06:42I'm like, it just worry is you can't worry about things you can't control. You just, the only thing you do is focus on what you can control and focus on believing in yourself more than anyone else. I mean, it's just, it's, you got to count on yourself.

1:06:57Financial Feminist Host:I love it. If you're watching on YouTube, my light just went out, which means apparently we're done. Like I'm done. I'm going to episode is over. That's it. It's over time to go. Carrie, where can people find more about you? Okay, you can find more about me. Let's see. We are the whisper group dot com. You can on there. There's a quiz that you can take to see how much your business is worth today. That's a really good one. That's whisper calculator dot com. And on social Carrie Kirpin. Yeah, if you go to whisper calculator dot com, you can legit enter in your stuff, Tori, and you can see how much it's worth.

1:07:29I'm doing it right now. Do it right now. Whisper calculator dot com. And please follow me, Carrie Kirpin. Social media is so hard, Tori. You do such a good job. and like I've been posting every day for you. No, it's horrible. And then, you know what you said about that? You know, when you said get new friends, you know, when you said that about like if people are making fun of you about your social media. Yeah. When I first started posting early, like I decided I was going to post every day, like all this stuff, I would see sends. And I was like, I know who's sending this. My little bitches in the playground.

1:07:59They're definitely sending this because there's nobody following me in the beginning. So whatever. I just didn't care. I just, I basically like said a text to everyone I knew like, Hey, I'm going to spam your social media for a while and follow me if you don't like it. Bye. Bye. That's so good.

1:08:15Financial Feminist Host:Thank you. This was so helpful. I love it. You got it. You got it. Thank you so much to Carrie for joining us. You can get her book, the whisper away wherever you get your books. Thank you as always for being here. Financial feminist. Thank you for supporting feminist media. Please don't forget to subscribe. Class is now in session and the UPS store is here to help you Ace arriving on campus. Our certified packing experts can pack everything you need, from desktops to decor. Plus, when you pack and ship with us, you get our exclusive pack and ship guarantee. Your items arrive safe or your money back.

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1:09:00Financial Feminist Host:Listen to our incredible almost 200, No, we're at like almost 300 episodes of our back catalog. And if you love the show, easiest way to support it is by sharing it with somebody you love. Thank you for being here. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. If you're confused about your personal finances and you're wondering where to start, go to herfirst100k.com slash quiz for a free personalized money plan.

1:09:36Financial Feminist Host:Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields and Tamisha Grant. Research by Sarah Shortino. Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf. Marketing and operations by Karina Patel and Amanda LeFew. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100k.

1:10:07Financial Feminist Host:A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K community for supporting our show.

1:10:22Thank you.